The RIGHT fasteners for your Joist Hangers // The Ultimate Deck Shop

[@ScottyOutdoorAdventures]

Thanks for taking the time to make these videos for those of us who are non construction wanna be build a deck home owners. I'd like to see product links in the descriptions of these Great Deck Shop Shorts videos. I'm on my way outside to see what is holding the ledger board to the side of my house right now.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Thank you for the great feedback, we absolutely should be posting links...and will do so from now on. Thank you!

[@robertmontgomery3892]

I'm a homeowner who is in the process of rebuilding a 30 year old deck from the beams [still good] on up. I hired a fence builder who is in total denial when it comes to this issue and I have to watch him constantly or he will grab for any old fastener. Worst of all his favorite thing is to argue with me and I'm nearly ready to replace him for this very reason. Rebuilding a deck isn't exactly rocket science but you still need to observe the instructions that come with these connectors and use appropriate fasteners or you are just wasting your money.

[@StegerMatthew]

Agreed.. when inspecting homes, we routinely find the wrong fasteners used to build decks, especially at the joist hangers. Good video!

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Absolutely. Thank you!

[@mangotango7284]

Thank you Shane and Ultimate Deck Shop for the helpful video. Trying to ensure I have the correct fasteners for my Simpson hangers has been a real struggle because there is so much conflicting information out on the web, and honestly a lack of clarity from Simpson. For example I see a lot of sources suggesting to use 16d 3-1/12" nails into a header / ledger, which to me seems like it would just "shotgun" the band joist and create excess areas for water to enter the house (in the case of a deck ledger), so the 10d 1-1/2" seems to make more sense there as it would only penetrate the ledger. Unfortunately, even Simpson's "Installation Guide" for the hangers prescribes a 3-1/2" 16d nail into the header, which would protrude beyond the surface of any single 2x lumber. Additionally, they don't seem mention the SD screws in the hanger documentation--I was hoping to determine if the 2-1/2 SD Screws are an equivalent substitute for the 16d 3-1/2" nails, and whether or not there is an applicable load reduction there, possible due to the reduced length. Anyway, thanks again for the video

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

If you dig into the Simpson website they have quite a number of tables and documentation about each of their lines of hardware, and I believe in some cases show load reductions. But might be best to contact a rep if you're having a hard time finding the info you need. I agree with you that the 3" spike through the ledger seems like a potential for issues...however, if the ledger is flashed appropriately, then there will be no water to find the holes anyway. Thanks for tuning in and the feedback!

[@mangotango7284]

@@TheUltimateDeckShop Thanks for the advice. I was able to find some additional clarification from "Deck Magazine". So thankful for these resources! www.deckmagazine.com/design-construction/framing/joist-hangers-for-decks_o

[@ahilbilyredneksopinion]

Where are they inexpensive?please tell me.home depot is not cheap when you need a bunch.they sell them for $2.50 a screw,and I need like 200.....so,nails.....

[@Andi-mv2nz]

Thank you so much for explaining when to use the 1.5 inch vs the 2.5 inch screws!!

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

You're welcome!

[@wrushb2626]

Yeah and they don’t sell these in stainless steel, which is a problem. For people living on salt water ocean or marsh, stainless is essential, hot dipped crap is nothing but a ticking time bomb in salt water. So there are limited options. Joist hangars DO come in stainless steel but if you elect to use galvanized fasteners you’ll have bimetallic corrosion at the contact points as different metals create a cathode-anode net charge. Your only option is to use full size and thickness course-thread 3” stainless screws for hangars (not deck screws). Your other options are to use as little hangars as possible, rest your joists on top of beams and shoulder beams into pockets on girders so it’s wood sitting on top of wood.

[@morokeiboethia6749]

I watched a test that was recorded by one of the testing agencies that work in tandem with resedential code law makers that completely changed my mind about the nail vs screw for framing a house. I had always heard over and over "nails have more shear strength and thats why they're used for framing." That is actually not why. Nails are used more often b/c they are much cheaper to buy and they reduce the man hours required to build a house frame - thus resulting in less cost on the builder in hourly wages. Nails are not superior structurally in any way. The screw won every single test that they did vs the nail. The test was done using boards that were fastened to each other using nails and the other using screws. A hydraulic machine that applies force to the boards/fasteners is used that also records the amount of pounds of force being used. The tests are stopped when one of the 3 things occurs - 1)Pull out - when the nail or screw can not hold any longer due to the force and is pullled out of the wood 2) Shear out - when the nail or screw is snapped due to the force applied from the machine 3) Tear out - the force causes the screw or nail to cut through the wood and eventually tears out the side of the board.. On one test there was 2 boards flat stacked together and fastened - one using screws and the other using nails. The machine began applying pressure to the boards and is trying to seperate them. The screw won that test as predicted and won by a landslide. The next test was the boards fastened perpedicular and shear force (downward force) was applied to the board running horizontally that was fastened to two vertical boards. I thought the nail would win that test but what it concluded was the nail never made it to the snapping point. On every single test, the nail's problem was what they call "pull out" and that simply means the nail failed to stay in the wood once the pressure reached a certain point and is pulled out. On every single test they ran on the nail, the nail never made it to the "shear out" point b/c it kept losing due to "pull out." The screw finally snapped but the amount of pressure it took far exceeded the pressure of it took for the nail to fail and lose due to "pull out." I cant remember all of the tests but the screw won every single one of them - even the tests where you would think the nail would win. Shear strength is not what you should be focused on. Pull out is going to happen before it makes it to the point where nail / screw is snapped and in every single test the screws pull out point is wayyyyy higher than a nails. Nails are only used b/c they're cheaper / faster. They are actually far less superior structurally than the screw.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

THANK YOU for posting this! That is SUPER interesting. Any chance that event was recorded and available somewhere? What type of screws were they using? There are structural construction screws out there now that address the shear issue as well, but I assume they were likely just using standard 3" #8 gold wood screws?

[@morokeiboethia6749]

@@TheUltimateDeckShop I watched that demonstration video about a year ago and it was on the website of the testing agency that tests fasteners for residential construction and I'm like 90% sure the vid was on KZbin as well. If I can find it again I will give you the link. Yes, the fasteners are tested against their code approved equivalent of the other kind of fastener so if we're talking about the length/diameter of ring shank nail that is approved to fasten studs to top/bottom plates, then that nail was tested against the screw that is permitted to attach studs to plates. These were not thick lag screws. The test I saw was probably something like a #8 - #10 diameter screw and it kicked the nails ass in every single way. I have a background in building piers and one complication about piers is being so far away from a power supply/outlet. Most piers used nails b/c cheaper/faster than using a generator to power a drill to predrill holes then drilling a screw in them. The impact driver wasn't out yet and the problem with regular drills driving screws into wood without predrilling is they split the hell out of your lumber especially when toe-nailing. They also really bad about stripping the screw. The cordless impact driver solved both of those problems when it became mainstream. Nobody uses nails anymore on their pier and for good reason. Piers and decks re exposed to the elements way worse than house frame. If you walked down a pier that used nails on the decking boards, around the 5th-8th year you'll about every single nail will be sticking up out of the decking boards. A pier the same age with screws will not have that problem. A #10, 2.75" to 3", 316 marine grade stainless decking screw is all I want to hear anymore!

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

@@morokeiboethia6749 That all makes perfect sense.

[@JoryBlake]

Thanks, I was heading to the hardware store and didn't wan to get screwed

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Ba-dump Tissss!

[@dani1i1i1i1]

I have to show this to my old boss. Drywall screws for everything.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Ugh...so bad.

[@TyinAlaska]

How did it go?

[@kchilz32]

@@TyinAlaska well he hasn’t answered, so I’m guessing not well at all

[@OfficialJDCoy]

so number 9 or 10 for a 2x6 joist hanger

[@ahilbilyredneksopinion]

Except those little guys are like 2.50 a piece.....

[@elijahdonahue4704]

My step dad put his deck together using deck screws and I luckily caught it before he put the composite on so I went out and replaced all his hanger screws and replaced his ground support screws with 4 inch lags

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Great catch!

[@bend4852]

At least he didn't use drywall screws lmao

[@hingsberg]

Thanks I've been searching for this info for days

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Happy it helped!

[@kb_100]

What's annoying is Simpson doesn't sell these in small quantities. I hate having to buy 150 screws to put up a hanger or two... Super annoying

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

The smallest pack is 100 yes. That doesn't go very far as each hanger will use 6 or 8 or 10 of them. But yes if you're only doing one or two hangers, then the nails are a more economical way to go.

[@Pepe-dq2ib]

I just shoot nails for my joist hanger. Since all decks now require tension ties to prevent joist pull out from ledger board, the screws loose it purpose. It just cost more and take longer to install. Simple .148 nails on all hardware unless the hole is big enough for .162 nails.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Certainly hanger nails are just fine as well, especially if you have a strapshot or other pneumatic nailer. Tension ties are certainly not universally required by any means, most places have not adopted that provision. But in places where they are being used, certainly the withdrawal strength of the screws becomes less of a benefit. But both work, and both are convenient in their own right.

[@alexmaclean1]

These screws were so fantastic to use. Sure they cost more, but with the cost of building a deck, the price difference of nails to these screws is pocket change. I rebuilt a rotted 10x12 deck and spent about $60 on the screws vs maybe 20 for nails, but it's so much faster if you don't have an air nailer to just use a drill, and if you need to adjust, they come back out a lot more easily.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Absolutely! The cost is negligible. The time and ease of use is well worth it!

[@bend4852]

Definitely. It takes too much effort to hammer in all your nails and not practical to buy a nail gun if its not going to get used very often

[@maisonlittle9093]

I used the longer SD screws in my floor joist all the way around in my home is that okay?

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Yes that's fine, as long as they weren't poking out the back and hitting something.

[@daveleaverdl]

Where do I get the Simpson screws I UK I can only find massive ones

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

I'm not sure, but in a pinch, you could order them from us and we could ship them to you. For a local option, you'd have to contact Simpson to see if they have a dealer list there for you.

[@meanlavigne]

Thanks for the video! I actually just used the 2.5” through the straight holes in the hanger flanges (I didn’t know any better before this. I was wondering about concealed joist hangers- because the flanges are on the inside, it seems you can’t use these hex head screws because your joist won’t sit flush against the ledger. Do I have to use nails for these hangers and if so what kind? Thanks!!

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Hi Chris! So the SD connector screws are still an approved fastener for the LUC series of concealed hangers. However, I do not see them listed as approved for use in the HUC concealed hangers which are the heavy duty ones. For a list of all connectors the SD screws can be used for, see here: www.strongtie.com/products/fastening-systems/technical-notes/sd-connector-screw-approved-connectors

[@alexlandwehr3103]

Are number 10 GRK screws acceptable. 3-1/8”

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

In a joist hanger? Which GRK screws? GRK is a brand. If you're referring to their RSS screws that would be MAJOR overkill. If you're referring to any other GRK screw, it wouldn't be the correct screw to use.

[@debtortobetter]

I've always used the Simpson nails - I would LOVE using screws instead! I had no idea they even existed! #camolever

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Yes check them out...they're awesome!

[@rekostarr7149]

@@TheUltimateDeckShop #9 vs #10?

[@MoltenSamurai]

Was looking for an alternative to the nails, I didn’t want to hammer all day and night, yikes. This is looking like a nice alternative 👀

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Yes, they're awesome!

[@wolfcommander6009]

I believe they also dont have the coating for exterior application...anything going in treated at least needs a special coating like galvy or that paint...drywall screws and trim screws are hard and break

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

That's correct...galvanization, ceramic coating, or stainless steel primarily.

[@jirojosephesman8175]

Great video...he about galvanized 3 inch nail..thank you have a blessed day and be blessed

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Thanks!

[@dyingforpie6879]

Straight to the point thanks

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Thanks!

[@sr-sr592]

Inexpensive ? Ya only cost about $350 for a small deck.

[@dustinjohnson7191]

I run across this issue all the time as a home inspector and nobody seems to understand

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Pretty common error yup.

[@SLAWTERX]

What would you suggest for attaching an 8' post to the corners of a deck? These posts will also be used to support a roof that will be built later

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

That should bear all the way down to a pile. It may drop to a beam, but then the post should continue beneath.

[@ramonmontana1005]

Are these good to use with treated lumber?

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Yes these are galvanized for use in treated lumber.

[@jamesnm21]

Just ran into this. I used 3 inch #9 exterior deck screws for the angled part of the joist hanger. The inspector told me I could use a 16 penny galvanized nail or the specialty screws. What's hilarious is a 16 penny nail would pull out before the heads snap off the deck screws I used. Lol.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

You're not wrong. However, the primary force is in shear with a joist hanger ASSUMING the deck is properly braced and/or laterally attached the house. But if not, you're right, the nails could wiggle out in theory. Hence why some areas are now also requiring lateral load anchors. The SD screws solve both forces. They're awesome.

[@jamesnm21]

@@TheUltimateDeckShop yeah, we have lateral load brackets bolted into the foundation. I ended up running 20D nails through the joist hangers. I also cross brace the joists underneath to prevent any sway movement even though it's not required in my area. The composit decking fasteners don't provide a direct floor-to-joist connection so best to be on the safe side I figure.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

@jamesnm21 Sounds like you got it cased! Nice work.

[@ThaFreehman]

So for the angled nails that would normally be 3 inch can use the two and a half inch SDS screw in replacement?

[@iroc2019]

With the same bracket you have. How would you screw the sides in if the joist is sloped

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Sloped down like a rafter? Use an LSU Sloped Hanger. Or if you mean skewed left or right, then use a SUR or SUL hanger.

[@iroc2019]

@@TheUltimateDeckShop Can you notch the rafter to fit the 90 degree bracket

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

@@iroc2019 without understanding the context, I suppose you could cut a bird's mouth to allow it to seat fully, sure.

[@douglogan4380]

Do you have a link to what you recommend?

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

www.ultimatedeckshop.com/search?type=product&q=Sd

[@jayw8313]

is the 2 1/2" screw sufficient for the toe/diagonal ? or do you have to use the recommended 3" nail?

[@evictioncarpentry2628]

These size Simpson screws are rated to pass code where the nails are required.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

The 2 1/2" is the proper fastener for the double sheer angled holes, as per Simpson's engineering. If using a nail, then yes it's the 3" you want.

[@michaelo1492]

GREAT TIP.....THANK YOU !

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Any time!

[@terryjones2467]

I doubt ill get a response ona 3yr old video. But ive been arguing for years that the angled parts should be regular galvanized wood screws. Those tiko nails have a thousand pound of sheer weight per screw. Six of those bad boys per hanger would be plenty. The angled ones however I believe should be screws. Ive seen so many times where the faceboard or ledger just kind of pulls away. A few screw with actual threading to keep it tight would help a lot with that. Soooo, anyone?

[@davidisaacson9328]

I used the LUS26Z(2×6) hangers for my deck: (2) SD9(1.5"L) and (2) .148 SS TECO(1.5"L) nails for the 4 holes to tie into ledger; with these 4 nails, 1 screw and nail were used per side and staggered(1 nail in top hole and 1 screw in the other top hole). The diagonals got 4- SD9(2.5"L). Hope this helps!

[@eddiewurtz-bt5dt]

Thank you, nice and to the point, I appreciate it.

[@alanahromidko5445]

Super helpful! Thank you!

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jakedupont3882]

Amazing content - thank you!

[@hot99pas]

Funny stuff

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

😀👍

[@kchilz32]

I’ll stick to nails

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

As long as they are the right nails, or right screws, it comes down to personal preference.

[@johnwhite2576]

@@TheUltimateDeckShop in restricted areas screws can be easier; BUT they are NOT really inexpensive....

[@grantwes]

Church

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

What is Eric.

[@davidisaacson9328]

"What is, 'Now destroyed', Alex Trebek" 😔

[@littlemissblueyes100]

First time using SD screws for hangers... I have had about 4 heads shear off during instalation from 3 different boxes of screws. This leaves no option to add a screw to that hole. It seams to me that out of a couple hundred 4 sheared off heads is too many 1/4 of my box of 2.5 inch screws were unusable because coating was to thick to fit in 1/4 inch driver. I am just building a chicken coop but planned to build a deck later. This seams like a huge quality control/safety concern and I am concerned about their actual shear strength.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Not something we have ever experienced first hand, nor have heard that feedback before. In our building days, we installed 10's of thousands of them. And in our retail days, we've likely sold millions of them. Something doesn't sound right here. Were you using the #10 screws instead of #9 in the L-series hangers? That could explain them being a little big. And over tightening them could explain the shearing off. Unless like you alluded to, maybe a bad batch. But certainly not something we've seen or heard of. Very strange.

[@FirstNameLastName-okayyoutube]

So if it is a structural screw add a deck screw then it is fine

[@markgibson9208]

So are their different applications for the number 9 and number 10 screws?

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Yes the #10 are a thicker shank and meant for the heavy duty hangers...HUS and HUC as opposed to the light duty LUS and LUC lines.

[@timkrueger8638]

@@TheUltimateDeckShop Do you use the #10 screws for the angled holes into the joist on a standard 2x joist, or are SD screws only for the flat/ledger side and still stuck using nails into the joist itself?

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

@@timkrueger8638 For standard LUS series hangers, you would use the 2 1/2" #9 SD screws in the angled holes.

[@barleyboy13]

Can you use the #10 in the lighter weight LU brackets?

[@678friedbed]

ya, when you put in 10 screws with 10,000 lbs of shear strength per a screw it's going to fall a part, that why you need screws with 14 ,000 lb screws.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

Not sure what type of screws you're referencing, but if they have 10,000lbs...you're good. Hahaha! A #8 deck screw has around 90lbs shear. Use the right screws. There's no reason not to.

[@678friedbed]

@@TheUltimateDeckShop even at 90 lbs and 6 screws that's 540 lbs per a hanger. a deck could hold a hot tub with no problem. now it looks like decent screws are closer to 125 lbs. let's also not forget that screws are put in perfect straight and that the friction accomplished from screwing 2 boards together also adds a litte. even when people use drywall screws usually the wood rots away before the screw it self fails due to rust.

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

@@678friedbed You do things however you like on your own personal dwellings. But this advice is incredibly irresponsible and dangerous. We urge anyone else reading this to do it the proper way according to established building codes and manufacturer instructions for your own safety. It doesn't cost any more to do it the right way.

[@678friedbed]

@@TheUltimateDeckShop lol, so being able to hold up almost 7000lbs is dangerous? you do realize hot tubs get installed on decks all the time without hangers. I hate to break it to you but trying to make that bogus fearmongering statement just makes you look like an idiot that's more concerned about the scary lawyer then actually making sure things are to some standard of safety. in case you haven't done the math or actually built decks following regulations isn't about safety, it's about raising the cost to make thing prohibited. but hey you go ahead and explain why it's safer to keep a rotten deck and fall through then it is to save hundreds of dollars on materials. you go ahead and tell people that a bunch of politicians that were lobbied by buisnesses to write code know more then someone who has actually seen decks decay and fall apart faster because it was "done right".

[@TheUltimateDeckShop]

@@678friedbed Have a good one man.