The Rings of Power was disappointing

[@openspace3687]

Sauron, an indescribably old maiar (angelic being), renowned and feared for his kniving and trickery from the first age onwards is unmasked by the equivalent of a google search.

[@Bookborn]

A Google search 💀💀💀

[@TMxtt]

Actor who played Sauron reminded me of a character from a Guy Ritchie movie. "Mockney gangsters" was bad enough, but a "mockney dark lord" I just wasn't buying. Hard to imagine the Rings of Power "Sauron" is also this Sauron > kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJysoHmde82HotE

[@esquilax5563]

@@TMxtt his accent is far from mockney, but I agree, he seems banally human and not at all demonic

[@scambammer6102]

The elves already knew there was no king of the southlands. That's why they were patrolling the region. Gladreel = dumbest elf ever.

[@mxvega1097]

@@scambammer6102 that occurred to me too - if she's spent the last thousand years or more roaming around looking for Sauron, then either it wasn't in the Southlands, or she wasn't asking the right questions and built up no target matrix for her quarry.

[@sierrajane5593]

The show felt so soulless to me. They literally used my absolute favourite Tolkien quote that I should draw a strong emotional reaction from me (I literally have it tattooed on my body) "the shadow is only a small and passing thing..." and I felt absolutely nothing when it was used in the show because somehow Tolkien's own words felt so out of place and it just came out of nowhere.

[@bboyandi82]

Same here. They watched the trilogy and repurposed all cool things and just squeezed them somewhere in between.

[@scambammer6102]

"the show is only a small and passing thing"

[@jmilber]

God bless J.R.R Tolkien--- that was perhaps one of my favorite parts of reading Lord of the RIngs. When Frodo is in utter despair, Samwell uplifts his spirit with true wisdom. "Frodo: I can't do this, Sam. Sam: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness, and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something. Frodo: What are we holding on to, Sam? Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo...and it's worth fighting for."

[@pwmiles56]

@@jmilber Both Jackson and Amazon left out the star which prompts Sam's thought (it's only a thought, not dialogue): "The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach." -- The Land of Shadow. Notice the active verb-forms: smote, returned, pierced. I don't know how a visual medium could portray this feeling, but the show definitely doesn't.

[@belegur8108]

@@jmilber there are only few rare moments with that much impact on a story... in movies its this, in video games, there is one for my part is equally impactfull. In Dragon Age Inquisition at the end of the Intro, you end up fleeing your starting village with a few refugees, all up in the mountains, with nowhere to go and meager hope and then this song starts to spread through the camp: Shadows fall And hope has fled Steel your heart The dawn will come The night is long And the path is dark Look to the sky For one day soon The dawn will come The Shepherd's lost And his home is far Keep to the stars The dawn will come The night is long And the path is dark Look to the sky For one day soon The dawn will come Bare your blade And raise it high Stand your ground The dawn will come The night is long And the path is dark Look to the sky For one day soon The dawn will come there is also a YT version of Peter Hollens and 500+ online singers...

[@olehaugan9555]

The writing is the major problem here. It felt like a high school theater project at times. I'm honestly shocked someone with so little knowledge about writing and storytelling could get a job like that and not lose it right away

[@easyislander]

In the HotD a dying king slowly walked to this throne, struggling to breath and nearly took 5 minutes of air time. It was the most impactful things that I still remember till today and I get teary eyed thinking about. In Rings of Power, a volcano blows up and it was absolutely boring. Nothing eventful ever happened in that show.

[@seanposkea]

I confess I haven't watched House of D, but I suspect the moment you describe was well acted by both the king and the anxious witnesses. You saw human frailty, fear and compassion. The trouble with most shows today is that they sound like kids playing with action figures, "the volcano blows up in your face and you're dead!" "Nah-ah, hot lava can't hurt me! Nah nah!"

[@clownofthetimes6727]

I thought any elf meeting Adar would be full of grief and despair at his corruption. Adar is one of the first elves and his small story arc is tragic. One of the troubles with this show is the lack of detail to Tolkien`s world.

[@Bookborn]

Yeah I find galadriels response in that scene completely unsupported in the show. If they were gonna do that they needed to make her way darker before. You’d think ANY elf would be horrified to meet Adar, not angry.

[@czypauly07]

The characters are devoid of empathy.... If I were close to the writers I'd be seriously worried.

[@scambammer6102]

@@Bookborn and get this - she didn't ask Adar for any details about his killing Sauron. She went for the genocidal rant instead. Gladreel = dumbest elf ever.

[@OneRedKraken]

@@Bookborn And it's another one of those flip flop moments with her personality you mentioned in your video. The scene before that she stopped Sauron from killing him. And then its Sauron who stops her from killing him. Double flip flop! lol

[@FURognar]

Yeah the Adar plot thread was pretty much the only interesting storyline the whole season. The mysterious Morgul blade COULD have been interesting but that turned out to be a huge dud

[@Mrtheunnameable]

The problem for me is the lack of continuity and care. It's like they wanted this cool scene to happen but didn't know how to set it up so they contradict character motivations or things that were previously set up to make it happen.

[@Bookborn]

I've noticed that recently in shows... "the rule of cool". But like... you have to EARN it. If your show is just a bunch of cool things happening it won't work.

[@waltwhite8126]

@@Bookborn Yeah, for example in HotD the fact that Aemond was the only Targaryen kid that didn't have a dragon, was bullied because of it and was the one that wanted it the most, made the scene of him bonding with Vhagar 10x cooler than if he just bonded without any previous build up.

[@danbendix1398]

@@Bookborn Written for preteen boys (action with no substance) and teen girls (drama without foundation).

[@ryno202]

Four random kids practicing sword play in House of the Dragon had more weight and emotion than anything in Rings of Power.

[@chand911]

Random?

[@lamiz3786]

I absolutely agree with everything you said. You explained it perfectly. Another thing that bothered me: There was this scene in the beginning where Galadriel was literally drownling and Sauron/Halbrand was saving her life. He is Sauron. It would have been the perfect opportunity to get rid of the strongest elf. No one knew at that time that she is still in middleearth. Why did he save her? There was never an explanation. They just wanted to make Halbrand look friendly and trustworthy but didnt think of the consequences and the logic.

[@Bookborn]

Ok but this is such a great point.

[@zachryder3150]

"Why are there no *emotions* in this show? I specifically requested it!" - Jeff Bezos

[@Bookborn]

💀💀

[@thomasc9036]

99% of the time Galadriel either has a dull drug-addicted look or a snarling angry face. Some village extras had more acting "range". Basically, she was an elven version of an orc.

[@Bookborn]

@@thomasc9036 I mostly noticed the "eye twitching" she did a lot. Did anyone else notice this?

[@donkeysunited]

@@thomasc9036 I think her angry face was meant to be a precursor to when we see her go terrifying in LotR when Frodo begs her to take the ring. Perhaps the eye twitching was part of that uncontrollable anger, her tempest.

[@scambammer6102]

@@Bookborn It was the ash from the "volcano"

[@stefansibbes2440]

The final episode was basically one big mystery box reveal with boxes made out of see-through glass.

[@Bookborn]

I'm baffled by these show runners thinking we NEED mystery boxes. It wasn't done well in WoT, either.

[@5quepasa]

The showrunners said that this is kind of the point. If you’ve read the books the clues are obvious; if not, it can be a fun little mystery. They throw a bit of misdirection in there, but the point of the stranger is more to demonstrate the power to choose the good than to add an alternate Sauron because, again, it was obvious to any book reader that he was a wizard

[@MirorR3fl3ction]

i think you really nailed the root issue with the show in that it was just bad story telling. i think a lot of ppls issue with the lore changes is that the story telling of the lore was better than the changes they made, so why change it if youre only making it worse

[@Michael-r3d]

It wasn't just bad story telling. The show should have focused on realism instead of making every female character stronger, smarter and braver than the male characters

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

@@Michael-r3d Well, that's the issue, isn't it? Eowyn isn't stronger than the Witch King, or a more skilled fighter. She and Merry are carried along to the point where they can together defeat him by loyalty, hope and courage. And of course, by courage, it's not a "they're not afraid" thing; they're terrified, because the Witch King just radiates dread, and it's the loyalty and the merest sliver of hope that carries them far enough to strike a blow each.

[@Bookborn]

Oh ABSOLUTELY. Like I didn't want to quibble about lore since I knew they didn't have the rights, but I kept feeling like...but it's done so much better in the book, why are we ignoring that? ESPECIALLY the Halbrand/ring stuff, like that's ten times more interesting in the book! And a lot of that is in the appendices!

[@mikem9001]

@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t Brilliant summary of Eowyn and Merry, and where their courage really lay! Eowyn is a highly skilled fighter, but that's not the most important thing.

[@irimescucatalin5595]

the "unearned dramatics" part was spot on. not enough people pointed that out.

[@KevinUchihaOG]

yeah, that was the very first problem i had with the show,

[@JamieHitt]

Imagine if the first episode had started out after the elves had returned to the undying lands… And they had realized that, having left middle earth, their memories of middle earth were fading. They have decided to commission an addition to their hall of records. And the record keepers were asking Lady Galadriel to recount to them the events as she remembered them. She agrees to help, and admits that her recollection is fading as well, …but that she will do her best to tell the story as it deserves to be told. And so begins the narration for the series. That set up right there solves every single problem they would encounter. It solves not having the rights to the Silmarillion… It justifies time compression… And it justifies any deviation from the lore. And that sporadic narration would come and go whenever something needed to be explained… Or described… Or to help carry the passage of time… Etc. And if that narration had been done by the voice of Cate Blanchett… Boom! It would lend both the credence and the gravitas necessary to certify the production in the minds of all fans. Instant success. Just add seasons.

[@Bookborn]

OK BUT THIS IS SUCH A GOOD IDEA??? And having Cate Blanchett would give it direct comparison to the narration at the beginning of LOTR?! I'm so sad now why couldn't we get this

[@yelsahblah3270]

Sadly this wouldn't help the terrible writing and pacing.

[@cypsrp7924]

Yeah, but you've still got my neighbor's 6-yr old nephew as the lead writer. And as long as the juiceboxes continue to flow we're okay, but as soon as they run out...its a tantrum from hell...and the writing is bad whether he throws a tantrum or downs juiceboxes.

[@ecthelion1735]

Except Valinor is a land of preservation... memories and such will be 'evergreen' in the Undying Lands.

[@leekelly4200]

Gee - you almost seem like a real writer!

[@LienesLibrary]

That’s my biggest thing - I should be able to go back and watch from the beginning and now catch all the times Halbrand was tricking or manipulating but he wasn’t? So it’s a terrible twist for that alone Great video!

[@Bookborn]

Like going back and watching that scene where he is sitting alone in a room contemplating his kingship like… what’s the reasoning 😭

[@mr_coffee9917]

@@Bookborn no actually he was just thinking about what to do. Should he go or not to Middle Earth

[@sieuzice]

Subverting expectaaaatioooons..

[@andrabook8758]

@@Bookborn dumb, shallow character and story lines...and totally not-Tolkien.

[@andrabook8758]

@@Bookborn sauron, the ultimate evil, just exists bc he got turned down for a date...wth? Gandalf can't speak and Nory needs to teach him good and evil. An immortal wise being sent by the force of ultimate good in the universe, is not a bumbling fool. It's not just that they completely rewrote all the characters, they made them moronic too.

[@wookie2222]

The show had so many chances. I remember my first thoughts in the beginning of the first episode: "Oh, she is searching for Sauron in the north?! So we might see something about the Witch King of Angmar? Yeay!!". And then, she returned back to court and jumped into the sea, visited Numenor and Mordor, but not the North.

[@Bookborn]

I know, a lot of people were assuming Halbrand might turn into the witch king there for a hot minute. The actual result was a lot less interesting

[@wookie2222]

@@Bookborn I assumed, Halbrand would have some tragic ark where he would become the king of the Haradrim, uniting the southern tribes and then during 4-5 seasons he would stedy and slowly turn to the dark side and support Sauron. -.-

[@MM-dm4xj]

@@wookie2222 the rings of power werent forged at that point, the witch King did therefore not exist

[@skillcapt6427]

It would have been much more interesting if she travelled north to find "the witch king" in his fortress thinking he may be Sauron...she finds he is not and leaves him be...only to later learn he become her nemesis's right hand man or wraith. It would link her futile search of the north in episode one to future story lines when he becomes Sauron's ally and by default enemy of Galadriel

[@swordmonkey6635]

The problem with your Galadriel plot idea is that it completely ignores Tolkien's character arch for her (that can't be ignored unless you plan on re-writing LOTR as well). It was her pride and stubbornness that held her in Middle Earth. She wanted to make her own kingdom in Middle Earth where she could rule. Pride kept her exiled in Middle Earth. She FINALLY realized that when the One Ring attempted to seduce her and she saw that her hubris would enslave rather than save Middle Earth. She humbled herself and felt the grace of Manwë return to her and she realized she was welcomed back to Valinor and could diminish into the West. That character arch defines Galadriel. Her rejection of the One Ring is her trial. Not some quasi-affair she had with Sauron/Halbrand back in the day. She wasn't a warrior. She traveled with her husband, and when need arose, used magic (destroying Dol Guldur) rather than swords and armor.

[@emorsi]

And damn... that is a rich story in itself and awesome story telling at the same time... and it is believable. Why these writer clowns did not use Galadriel as she is supposed to be AND introduced an awesome woman warrior at the same time? They made already characters up so why not use a new woman warrior which is questionable in her descions? I guess they are just lazy and they not really care what Middle-Earth really means as a world.

[@swordmonkey6635]

@@emorsi Peter Jackson understood Galadriel's backstory and nailed it. He showed that Galadriel was grim as the Fellowship arrived. She'd been in a bad mood for quite a while because she felt the walls of the world closing in around her "kingdom" as Sauron's power grew. In the movie, she didn't smile or put on a good mood before the test at the Mirror. She even got into people's heads and screwed with them, tempting them or showing them "their hearts" and failings (basically acting out her own fears onto others). Almost immediately after she passed the test at the Mirror, she smiled for the first time in the movie and her demeanor lightened because the weight of anxiety and hubris had been lifted off of her. The scene of the gift giving shows a changed Galadriel. She smiles and even laughs and you can see her beauty and grace, whereas when she's first introduced, she looks stiff and haughty. Rings of Power ignores all of this arch conclusion for a sugar rush of fan-fiction.

[@emorsi]

@@swordmonkey6635 Yeah, and even that I liked Peter Jacksons adaptation it was only a brief moment for Galadriel there. Imagine what a show with a lot more time to develop character arcs could have been if Jacksons had the time for it. Peter Jackson should have made ROP or some writers with a love for the lore and respect for the material. I am pretty sure that Jackson even would have picked another title for the show. Because "Rings of Power" sounds quite lame, like: "wooowww... Rings of POWER, you know POWER... that sounds, you know, wowww... BIG, you know, wooowww...". These kind of titles I would expect from lame fan-boys coming of age or something but not real professionals. And that is the problem here, in this production there were no real professionals and lovers of Tolkien involved. The showrunners were nobodys before and they will be nobodys again.

[@swordmonkey6635]

​@@emorsi The series should've focused on Numenor with big elven names appearing only when needed for context of the lore/story rather than name recognition. Galadriel is a side character in the Second and Third Age (Tolkien summarized her travels because they were probably not very exciting). She was the most powerful elf in Middle Earth by the Third Age, but she should never be the focus of a series. Numenor offers the writers the PG version of Game of Thrones that they so badly want while focusing on something they can write about that's exciting and a tie into Gondor, Aragorn, Isildur etc. It also brushes up against famous characters and places without focusing on them. Let new fans experience the power and might of Numenor. 7 foot tall men who were the height of mankind. It allows the origin of the Dunadain to make more sense to casual fans.

[@emorsi]

@@swordmonkey6635 I am pretty sure that would be a good idea where you going at. But... even if Galadriel was only a side character they could have gone here the extra mile and create a lot out of her. Why not? Her character arc in the lore is interesting enough to focus on her, but I have to admit that there are better choices here. What I would have loved is just very different: I would have loved a story with side characters like SMAUG. Why not? Why not go there and give that amazing dragon his origin story? It would have been so darn cool. That one is an intelligent being thus able to plot even political plans or is good for some action scences also. And... Dragons were loved in GOT, so there is another cash cow here to milk.

[@seanposkea]

Thank you for your comments at 13:00! Yes I'm so sick of duex ex magicka. "How do we get them out of this scene? I know! The hero will just grimace and hold out their hands and suddenly display some god-like powers we've never seen before!" Like when they kept adding ridiculous superpowers to Superman in the 60s or the hero of a Clive Cussler novel that just happens to be an expert in whatever skill they need at the time. "Have I never mentioned that in addition to being a CIA assassin I'm also a genetic engineer and a world class sushi chef?" This is why we never care about characters, we can't empathize with them, we don't fear for them, we have no emotional stake in their story.

[@Bookborn]

YES YES YES. I'm sooo tired of power creep. Limitations to magic and powers is what makes a character interesting AND what drives tension in a story. If, as an audience, we assume new powers can come whenever a character is in danger, we have no reason to fear for anyone.

[@duffypratt]

For me the big problem is I ended up liking only three characters: Durin, Adar, and Sauron. Doubt that was what they were after, but it’s what they achieved. The Sauron plot makes absolutely no sense. Bad Robot loves to rely on mystery boxes and coincidence. At best, that makes things cool in the moment, and then deeply unsatisfying.

[@Anthony-pq4vr]

Absolutely agree. Those three were the most compelling and, frankly likeable, with Sauron and Adar being even more compelling than Durin in my book. Adar was nearly a great character until they sabotaged him.

[@KevinUchihaOG]

@@Anthony-pq4vr Yeah, Adar was basically the only character that i wanted to know more about. I was intrigued to hear him talk and learn who/what he is. Rest of the characters were quite Bland. Even though i liked Durin as a character, there isnt that much about him that im dying to learn.

[@chaz9808]

so weird that Galadrial didnt mention her husband until ep 6 the writers clearly have issues with men

[@madmax5841]

When Galadriel refused to be mansplained and rejected the white guy because he hadn't checked his privilege, I got literal goosebumps

[@LuisSierra42]

When she approached Halbrand and whispered in his ear "Down with the patriarchy" i had to pause the video and run around my house in order to deal with the excitement

[@ManCarryingThing]

As always, great analysis and breakdown - hit so many great points and I think your rewrite would've been MUCH better

[@someother5512]

Tolkien works were written to be anti modernity, the creators of the show said they wanted to take Tolkiens work and give it a modern update. This alone made it impossible to ever be a Tolkien story.

[@Bookborn]

Hmm I don't necessarily agree. I think the great thing about Tolkien is that his works can still absolutely be relevant today - so modern. I think the mistake is thinking that they have to try super hard TO modernize it - the stuff he talked about was already timeless.

[@JoeTheLion60]

Exactly - when did we ever get to thinking that art was supposed to reflect "today?" Fantasy is about opening up new worlds NOT pandering to cultural or political views - Soviet Russia tried that by making political cartoons from East Germany and Eastern Europe - how well did that turn out?

[@simpdefendmlady6579]

Modern update huh? Maybe you should tell the 6 million Ukrainian women who fled and left behind their sons and husbands that 'modern' women fight wars with more might than the men

[@simpdefendmlady6579]

The episode where Galadriel told an entire fleet of Orcs to educate themselves on using pronouns made me cry tears of validation!

[@ironmonkey1512]

You don't get it... Drumf voters = filthy orcs

[@MrDe4dGuy34]

I mean, the only person who was really tricked by Sauron was Galadriel, but it wasn’t because Sauron was being deliberately deceitful; she deceived herself. He told her he was an evil man, but she wanted that army to go kick Sauron’s butt so bad she didn’t stop and check her facts before handing this guy a kingdom. And it took like a single day for an elven clerk to dig up the info that Halbrand indeed wasn’t the King of the Southlands. Why didn’t she check for that in Numenor? Heck, why didn’t Miriel check for that information herself? It seems like a big deal allying with a guy you know nothing about who an abrasive elf says is a king. I imagine the Numenoreans would have records on the Southlands. Halbrand only becomes king because absolutely no one questions his legitimacy.

[@Bookborn]

I mean and then there is the fact that he tells a supposedly world-famous crafter about alloys like...

[@otd3774]

You forgot to mention the part when the Numenorean cavalry are charging towards the dirt village and the sun is behind them when they are riding from west to east.

[@Bookborn]

Shhhhhhhhh the showrunners didn't expect us to notice that 🫠

[@VoltaDoMar]

You are right on. totally agreed with everything, but especially your observation that there are many scenes in this show that seem to serve no purpose or are redundant. They don't understand the fundamentals of story. Regarding Adar, he's one of the only characters that has a clear motivation, a motivation which was tied to events in the show- Honestly, that should be basic, but it's hard to articulate that for most of the other characters.

[@Bookborn]

Right?! When everyone was saying they loved Adar, I was like...yeah, he's the only person that makes sense in this entire show, except from maybe Durin (who people also like). I can't believe such a small side character is the only one that they actually followed basic story telling principles with. I also think it's ironic that the people they *tried* to make likeable end up coming off as super unlikeable, and the villain as likeable 😅 A clear misunderstanding on how to write characters.

[@Anthony-pq4vr]

Absolutely agree, Adar was by far the most compelling character in the entire season, and he was completely sabotaged by the end. His introduction and first lines was maybe the most memorable part of the show for me. Acting was also phenomenal.

[@xander821]

Agreed! It frustrated me that the protagonists motivation were so vaguely defined. Galadriel has been hunting Sauron for centuries because he killed her brother, oké but why is she still so hung up about it? The reactions from the elves seem to suggest that her reaction is not a common way to grief for elves, but it is not explored why she feels so extreme about this. Was she supposed to help her brother and came to late or is there some other regret that she hasn’t been able to let go off? Or does she consider it her duty to find and slay Sauron, but then why is she so emotionally invested?

[@VoltaDoMar]

@@xander821 You're right, it's paper thin.

[@QuestLegacy]

This video allows me to feel better about missing out on something and banking up the time it would have taken to watch the show haha

[@Bookborn]

I can’t believe you have an entire eight hours that I lost. Do something better with it than I did

[@readbykyle3082]

What a gift Bookborn has given you, Michael. You might have to name your next child after her. Bookborn Knipp. It has some pizzazz to it!

[@QuestLegacy]

@@Bookborn I can't lie to myself. I didn't lol

[@zachryder3150]

Guiding others to a treasure she cannot possess.

[@liberTvalance]

The problem I had with lore and this show is that they kept saying they were following the books and blaming fans for pointing out they were lying to us. I couldn't get past the blatant lying to even give the show a chance after 4 episodes. I just gave up. Glad to see I didn't miss anything.

[@WilliamsPinch]

I’m convinced that Galadriel is actually Sauron. That’s the only thing that could save the show as far as I’m concerned bc her character is so chaotically written, there’s no redeeming her😩.

[@Bookborn]

It’s so funny because at the end when galadriel is convincing them to make three rings my husband was like “oh! That’s sauron as galadriel! That’s fun!” And then… it actually wasn’t 🤣 like her character is ALL over the place

[@WilliamsPinch]

@@Bookborn 🤣🤣 exactly! What a let down lol

[@simpdefendmlady6579]

It's not chaotic at all. She is all powerful and determined i.e. better than every other character, especially the guys who seem to just get in the way more than help. She is never wrong, unlike everyone else besides Arondir and his wife. Notice a pattern?

[@yomamma.ismydaddy216]

The whole “you must touch the darkness to know the light” thing is basically the opposite of Tolkien’s whole philosophy of the lord of the rings. It’s so bad and disrespectful it’s almost as unbelievable as the shows narrative

[@onetime4502]

I learned from amazon that strong women can swim across an ocean, take a erupting volcano to the face and standing in a blowing up building super easy with no side effects.

[@Bookborn]

Truly the only things a female needs

[@andreipetrenko2422]

Regarding the POV thing: The Wire has multiple POV characters and multiple loosely interconnected plotlines, but you can watch thirteen hours of its first season in one go, just because all of those characters and plotlines are interesting and fleshed-out. So, the message is not "don't add muliple points of view", but rather "don't add multiple points of view when you barely have enough stuff happening to keep one".

[@DoctorBahoots]

Great breakdown Bookborn, I love hearing well thought out critiques like this. I just cannot believe how this show’s writing was so mediocre. I feel like there is absolutely no excuse for this show to be as boring as it was; more of that budget should’ve been spent on the writer’s room. Hopefully next season doesn’t feel like a first draft lol

[@smugb]

Amazon managed, in my two favourite IPs (Tolkien's world and The Wheel of Time), to produce shows that were simultaneously bloated and empty. They really need to start hiring show runners who actually know what they're doing, because their current stock of apprentices are embarrassingly useless.

[@herekitty791]

When Galadriel told Sauron to “stop mansplaining,” I was moved to tears

[@margarethorrall8621]

The Rings of Power had a lot of potential but the writers entirely screwed up the characters. There is no Tolkien universe where Gil-Galad, let alone Elrond would have talked down to Galadriel like that. Galadriel was MUCH older and much wiser than either of those two. I could have lived with Black Elves, not everyone is as racist as Tolkien but they lost me when they turned Galadriel into some Amazon warrior woman. I stopped watching when she left Middle Earth and ended up on Numenor. All of that potential and all of the unexplored richness of the Second Age and they couldn't even stay within the framework of the story. Just lame.

[@PaulA-pg7jm]

I miss the Galadriel of the books and the Peter Jackson movies. A wise and empathetic leader with great people skills. And also a great judge of character. Look at how Galadriel reacted to Gimli's request for a lock of her hair as opposed to the elf lord Feonor. Despite being a mighty elf lord Galadriel knew he was arrogant jerk and refused him. With Gimli she saw a good person who simply wanted a memento of their meeting. Galadriel gave him three.

[@IUsedToBeAnAdventurerLikeYou]

Honestly, Bear McCreary carried a lot of this show on his back. Without his music, I never would’ve known when I was supposed to feel anything.

[@darianstarfrog]

It's totally hit or miss..but yes, without it, none of the seems would feel like anything at all.. such a bad production

[@IUsedToBeAnAdventurerLikeYou]

@@darianstarfrog to be honest, even though the music alerted me to emotional cues, as a whole it just wasn’t overly memorable for me. Nothing like the Breaking of the Fellowship or Concerning Hobbits, both of which are instantly recognizable. May It Be is another one. I haven’t gotten over that awful abuse of the One Ring poem in the final credits. That’s memorable simply because it’s quite painful to listen to.

[@grayavatar9766]

Pandering and pageantry doesn't make a story.

[@r.blakehole932]

To me, this show felt like children splattering paint randomly on a canvas and then being upset when you tell them that what they painted was not high art. And, do not underestimate the importance of lore to the success of the show. The lore is what makes the core audience tune in. I'm in my 60s and have been reading Tolkien since the early 1970s. Middle Earth has been a part of my life for half a century. I have all the books. And have read them. I tuned out of this show after episode four. The paint splatters did not even feel like Middle Earth.

[@Bookborn]

I mean I love the lore clearly and wish they had the rights to it. But I find that they dismiss fans as “will never be satisfied”. So I wanted to prove the show didn’t work even if we took lore out of it!

[@limbsofosiris3187]

Nice breakdown, it's good to hear voices of people who appreciated the first episodes and then fell out of love as it revealed itself to be the atrocity that it was. My wife and I were in the same camp, though it was more along the lines of 'not as bad as we expected' after the first episode than 'good', but by the end we were horrified. Just one thing, I agree entirely that the Durin/Elrond relationship AT FIRST was one of the nicer elements of the show and was highly enjoyable to begin with, but we really got annoyed with it when it turned out that Elrond's brains melted and flowed out of his head as he was teleporting too much between the Dwarven and Elven realms that he ended up being so stupid beyond relief that it was barely watchable. There're only so many times you can accept that he's supposed to be a great friend while simultaneously having broken his oath to said friend ten times without even being aware of it.

[@Bookborn]

Ok totally agree about durin and Elrond tho like I loved their chemistry but the story just made NO SENSE by the end 😭

[@ecthelion1735]

The best part is in Episode 10 when Not-Sauron backflips off his dragon, kisses Galadriel, and yells “It’s Ringin’ Time” and then makes the one ring out of the melted down remains of the Tolkien Estate's dignity.

[@johns1625]

"But how will we pull off the big reveal? So far she's only found symbols in evil places" "Just have her ask for a scroll or something and have him there when she reads it"

[@darianstarfrog]

It's even worse than that, there's a video on yt that breaks it down..it shows how much they changed that simple scene, to make it easy for people not paying attention..they added a cgi page, in her hand, transparent, so you could see the symbol, aaand have her, in an added voiceline, her not moving jaw, hidden by the over sized cgi piece of paper, explain the revelation outright..

[@thomasc9036]

I question the showrunners' basic common sense to even be storytellers. As an example, consider the whole fortress tower crashing down because ONE rope snapped. The common sense that a fortress is supposed to be durable and difficult to destroy didn't even occur to these writers. There are only so many non-sense disconnected scenes that viewers' can endure before just tapping out. What this show need is a "why" person for each scene. "Why would Galadriel jump in the ocean?" "Why do you believe that Harfoots are amusing or likable?" "Why is the herbalist the leader of Southlands suddenly?" "Why did Numeroreans even come when the result would have been the same?" "A Mordor powerpoint...WHY?"

[@Bookborn]

Yeah I talk about the rope thing later in my vid like so many random things just happen. It shows how inexperienced the writers are. They didn’t think about the why for any of their characters.

[@chucklitka2503]

Sounds like a show made by a committee. We'll see if they learned some lessons next year. Oh, and I enjoyed watching your husband on Stephan Aryan's KZbin interview with him and Ryan Cahill. Learned a lot.

[@Bookborn]

Yep I think the committee is a huge aspect. No vision!

[@ernestschroeder9762]

So far away from Tolkien I'm starting to think that the producers are children of melkor.

[@Mark_Jonas]

I think amazon could’ve made a show that fits main characters that are dwarves, men, and hobbits that also fits into the lore, by making multiple. They should have made multiple shows and movies focusing on different pieces of the history.

[@OneRedKraken]

For me it's the show's dialogue. From the nonsensical idioms to completely uninspired lines. My favorite idiom/analogy: "A rock sinks because it can only look down. While a boat floats because it looks up." -Finrod My favorite line: "I'M GOOD!" -Goodalf

[@Bookborn]

The rock line was soooo stupid. Although another good contender is “the sea is always right”

[@JoeTheLion60]

The Sea is Always Right and The Elves took our Jobs!

[@Makkaru112]

The three elven rings were made last and outside of Annatars knowledge. And originally he meant for ALL the rings he had already made to go ALL to the elves. But since that went to heck, he launched an assault upon Eregion almost Ceaslessly for a time. And during this time Celebrimbor was tortured in the most otherworldly way possibly. Ungodly. Sauron (He is now named by the elves meaning Deceiver) marched with Celebrimbor skewered upon one of their evil pikes. It also took 100s of years for Annatar to gain any headway. Even when he pretended to be a herald of the Valar.

[@skepticalextraterrestrial2971]

What does a show have to do to be considered bad these days? "I don't care about any of the characters. Most of the scenes feel pointless and repetitive. I'm bored and don't feel any emotion. The "profound" moments of the show feel cheap and contrived. But it isn't ALL bad..." Admit it. It is bad.

[@readbykyle3082]

Show was so boring. My wife tapped out at 20 minutes in the first episode and she's been making fun of me for continuing ever since 🤣 you did a great job breaking down what didn't work, and that Galadriel arc would have been much better.

[@Bookborn]

Jess is so smart like I need to follow her lead more

[@BrodyBaddis]

the opening 'rock and ship' analogy was a dead giveaway of what the writer's were at.

[@Bookborn]

Some of us had hope ok lmao

[@kael3691]

When Galadriel pulled out The Sword in the Stone and yelled 'I Have the Power!!" became the greatest event in T.V history

[@kennethmacalpin7655]

"This is nothing like the Silmarillion!" "We couldn't get the rights to the Silmarillion" "If you couldn't get the correct rights, then you should've cancelled the project" " . . . oh we didn't think of that"

[@PantheraOnca60]

I agree with every one of your observations. I'm not familiar with the Silmarillion, so my disappointment with this series has everything to do with it failure to tell a story that made me care about what happened to the characters. In so many places (e.g., Miriel's going blind) the writers serve up what's supposed to be, it seems, a tragic or triumphant moment, without it moving me one iota. Fan service seems to be an obsession with contemporary writers and showrunners, but fan service has to be handled with some finesse, or it ends up looking amateurish. Dangliing Sauron and, obviously, Gandalf as the absolute center of the first season betrays a lack of creativity on the part of the producers and writers. Try establishing a more original story, then bring in the known characters in such a way that they enhance the tale you're telling -- not as a substitute for originality. Whether Sauron or Gandalf figure prominently in the Silmarillion ir not, don't dangle themin such a on-the nose- fashion. And the dialogue. Galadriel loves to declare how wonderful she is, and how much she has seen/suffered. The result is a central character who is about as likable as a carbuncle. Even if the idea is to have her develop as a character, she has to have some likability and a snarly smile on a horse ain't it. I too liked Arondir, until he faded into Bronwyn's shadow -- and WHT?? She becomes a military commander based on what? Knowledge of plants? She has to earn the respect of the audience as well as the village folk, not just assume a mantle without proving she's qualified. I could go on. I won't. Ugh.

[@Bookborn]

"fan service...is not a substitute for originality" PLEASE SAY IT LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK. yes!!! It's so annoying that they're like "let's just throw in gandalf. people love gandalf!" He shouldn't be needed in the story if you're telling a good one.

[@Makkaru112]

@@Bookborn he wasn't even around in the second age. If anything coming as Olorin in Galadriel's dreams etc as the Valar worked this way for ages. Cue in Faramir's dreams, then Borimir's to follow way later on, and Frodo's. He had many, and even a few before the journey even started!

[@Makkaru112]

You'd love the many cool audiobooks that even have amazing ambient to go with it! Children Of Hùrin you'll love.

[@AuroraCCE]

Ok so I just watched each of your RoP episode comparison videos and then this one. When you watch them all in a row like that you can actually see your early excitement and enthusiasm shift through the videos to clear disappointment by the end of this one. Its heartbreaking to see this program turn out to be such a disaster given all that's been invested in it. Especially considering the tremendous potential of the material they were working with. I think the last time I was this disappointed in a show was the series Lost when it was finally revealed that nothing really meant anything and the whole cast were all dead. Anyway, you did a great job of clarifying what was and wasn't canon for those of us who haven't read the Silmarillion. And a great job of clearly articulating what went wrong. Thanks and great job!

[@annieprunsky7387]

For me pacing and lack of tension was by far the biggest issue. I can even forgive the lack of character arcs for the elves because I think it would be shocking for a long lived race to have a full arc in a single season but I really like the idea you had with having us see Galadriel descending further while she thinks she is healing. That would have made her feel like she was making progress even though she can’t actually progress that quickly as an Elf I think. I also agree the harfoot situation should have been pushed to season 2 and I think it could’ve added a lot of tension to actually tell the audience Halbrand was Sauron while keeping the characters in the dark instead of doing the whole red herring approach. I do think there is potential if they can work out the pacing and character issues though but maybe I’m just an optimist 😅. Either way thanks for another great video!

[@Bookborn]

yeah like I think if we want to be more true to it, Galadriel shouldn't really have an arc because the elves don't change. But they could've made that compelling too, right? If they compared it to dwarves or humans. They sort of *try* and do this with Elrond, but then they never mention it again. And I think that's the issues - so many ideas and dropped story lines that it ends up a mess.

[@darianstarfrog]

@@Bookborn bingo! No care was taken to even make a good series..let alone a Tolkien one.. in all factors, they failed, except most the cgi, with was do e by the very people, here in NZ, that did LOTR..

[@bleachdiet559]

Healing from what, her Karen attitude? Not sure if I should be mad at her or myself for wasting 8 hours on that show

[@stoneruler]

Your analysis is spot on! Really went straight on point to the biggest problems of the show, the bad writing, empty character arcs, forced emotions, etc. Many critics of the show are just trash talking.

[@AllAhabNoMoby]

Galadriel. A deadly combination of Karen and Mary-Sue. How anyone could have hopes for this show after the first 10 minutes is beyond me.

[@Michael-r3d]

Karens, Mary Sues, radfems and femsels all love this show 💜

[@kentjensen4504]

Yeah you have to be a pretty hopeless case to need more than ten minutes to see what a clown-show this was.

[@Yoursoulismine814]

There were so many points where the show wanted me to feel sad about a character's death where I laughed out loud like when Random Guy A gets his throat slit in the orc camp and then Random Guy B gets shot with arrows and the show is trying to sell it like it's the death of Boromir. Don Lemon Elf is crying and I'm laughing my ass off because the show has done absolutely nothing to earn the response it wants you to have.

[@Bookborn]

Yep, that's another great example of a scene that they were trying to force emotional connection on. It's funny because Boromir's death happens after very little screen time but has way more impact because character motivations/story were actually developed.

[@fortunateson101]

Great critique! I agree with so much of what you put forward here. Thanks for going into such detail.

[@WMfin]

Not having all the rights ain't a defense. KZbin channel "Tolkien Untangled" made amazing video "How Rings of Power should have been written" and he sticks to the same source material Amazon had and his version gives me goosebumps to think about! This show could and should have been so damn good! The lost potential hurts!

[@mxvega1097]

Nice rewrite! I was thinking that scaling it waaay down and having a simple contest between the protagonist and antagonist, with support cast, still with great scenes, and magic, and rival interests, etc would start the show better. A core character set would be showing just how powerful and dark Sauron could be, which requires some flashbacks to Morgoth, and therefore why he's such a threat in "fair form", what has he been up to this whole time, what have the elves discovered?; and that Galadriel actually has conflicting drivers for securing her own future, prospects for her family, defending the realm, avenging her brother, and the occasionally difficult relations with the other elves and factions. That way there would be some nuance and complexity to her character. Heck, even a plotline of Sauron deceiving her for a season would work, maybe with a huge wake-up call with the torture and death of Celebrimbor. The Stranger doesn't belong in this age at all, and mucks up so much continuity. (Uh, so the Valar send a Maia to ME before the One Ring is forged? Why?)

[@tyranomu]

ROP is an amateurish, convoluted, derivative, boooring, and above all else, disrespectful to Tolkien, Peter Jackson and the fans. It's bad, no one would have had me believe it could be this bad. The Hobbit movies were bad, but compared to ROP they are masterpieces!

[@corden9941]

As far as Galadriel goes, I feel like they missed out on an amazing love story between her and Celeborn. In the lore the reason why she turned down Valinor was because her husband wasn't going to be there.

[@Bookborn]

Yeah I'm jsut SO confused why they included him in the last hour. Like...for the story they were telling so far, he made no sense. Why not include him from the beginning and have that inform her choices?

[@corden9941]

@@Bookborn Exactly. Instead of using her brother as a catalyst, they could have used her husband and her daughter for that fact. Her objective was revenge when it could have been love.

[@LuxieDamned]

@@Bookborn Oh shlt! she had a husband! ok....add it in the end and then we'll see

[@v1e1r1g1e1]

Here are my suggestions to improve the show: 1) Get rid of ... everything. Problem solved.

[@carlo241]

Oh dear, your rewrite of Galadriel's arc made it so much better. :) Great video :)

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

It's the inconsistencies, too. Arondir at one point says there's no such thing as Elvish medicine. Until Halbrand gets hurt, and Galadriel says he needs the Elvish medicine we'd been told didn't exist. So, that means that either Arondir (and possibly many other Elves) are just not cool enough to have been told about Elvish medicine, or there's a script supervisor not doing their job very well. EDIT: And this is a callback (or maybe call forward) to Fellowship, after Frodo is stabbed with the Morul blade, and Aragorn says "thsi is beyond my skill to heal, he needs Elvish medicine".

[@Makkaru112]

There are many plagiarisms from PJ films, not just with dialogue. But also badly copying Rohirrim charge, Nazgurl being stabbed in the foot... follow your nose.... take the staff(ring) I'm giving it to you!! Don't tempt me frodo. Stronger Than The Foundations Of The Earth.... And even a few pirates of the carrabean stuff too. Tempest in me was plagiarizing CATE Blanchets Elizabeth lines! Verrrry badly.

[@FaramirsRangers]

You make some really great points and I was explaining the episodic feel or lack there of to my friend and I compare it to how The Last Kingdom does it better. Like actually I compare all shows against The Last Kingdom now cause it has the most satisfying experience all the way through all 5 seasons

[@badandy9716]

Sauron, the King of Reverse Psychology... Seriously, Guyladriel is responsible for turning him back to the dark side. He resisted at every turn!

[@Talon0524]

This is the best review of the series I’ve seen yet, you call out everything I saw and experienced.

[@diegooland1261]

Let's keep this simple. Galadriel is the main character. We are supposed to root for her success because she's good. Or we are supposed to root for her downfall because she's bad. Either way, we are supposed to be completely invested in seeing what happens to her. At the end of season one, how much do you care about what happens to Galadriel? My guess is a first year writing instructor will say, "You didn't make me care about the main character. Here's your paper back, try it again and next time make me care."

[@Bookborn]

Exactly. This is the issue. I cared about none of the characters or what happened to them

[@marctorres2]

Only 14 executive producers? Star trek Picard " Hold my Beer". 20 executive producers.

[@Bookborn]

Is it a good show?

[@marctorres2]

@@Bookborn Not in my opinion. I'll leave the lambasting to the professionals. kzbin.info/www/bejne/npe0lZlvaMppaas

[@TheN9nth]

@@Bookborn It is generally agreed upon that Picard is the worst Star Trek produced to date.

[@LiaThornegge]

Good analysis. One note, you dont even mention dwarves until min 18 when you say how to change things for the better: what did the dwarves actually contribute this season that needed so much screen time?

[@lillyaltland4359]

Excellent analysis. My biggest issue with the excuse that they "don't have the rights to the Silmarillion" is that the show pretends that it doesn't exist. You can still respect the material, even if you can't present it. They just said f it and presented us with hilariously bad Galadriel loves Sauron fan-fiction.

[@Bookborn]

YES ONE HUNDRED. Like they still have the rights to the entire LOTR! I'm so worried now that I've heard that they want to make sauron a "complex bad guy like in breaking bad". Like excuse me. No...that's going to far lore wise even for me LOL

[@yangtze2000]

Yes, Galadriel can't help loving the bad boy. More inaccurate portrayal of Galadriel in particular, and negative portrayal of women generally. Wonder what life would be like in the Sauron/ Galadriel household, with all the little Sauradriels and Galadrons running around? Galadron: "Mum look! Dad's found Tiddles!" Galadriel: "Sauron! That cat died six months ago! I told you not to do your dam necromancy in front of the children!"

[@LuxieDamned]

On another extreme, why would you do a story based mostly on a book that you don't have the rights for?

[@philnorfleet1371]

I knew it was going to be a mess when I saw the image of Not-Galadriel wearing armor. Galadriel is a sorceress type of character, not a warrior, so I knew exactly what they were going to do and I was not surprised at all. And the fact that the 'rings of power' are crafted in the last five or ten minutes of the season? Come on ... This is Amazon's "Waste of Time" all over again.

[@Bookborn]

Having a show called "The rings of power" and then spending five minutes on them is SUCH a CHOICE

[@spinningclio]

Great breakdown and insight - you covered it. I only wish you could have watched House of the Dragon concurrently so the problems you highlight in ROP would have been in even starker contrast (but I get you're not into the GRRM style of story). I think it's worth remembering that the showrunners/producers are of the "Bad Robot" mystery box method championed by JJ Abrams. Given that you weren't a fan of the Star Wars sequel trilogy, also guided by JJA, it's no surprise that a lot of what you didn't like in ROP overlapped with your critiques of those movies.

[@Bookborn]

You know I was thinking the same thing! Mystery boxes CAN work but man JJ just has such a bad track record with how to use them. People are trying to convince me to watch HotD! They say it has less sex than GoT but I've heard conflicting reports on that front haha

[@spinningclio]

@@Bookborn less sex/nudity? Yes, but it still has some. Along with the standard in-world moral depravity such as ruling class incest. 🙄

[@donkeysunited]

@@Bookborn I've only seen up to episode 8 and there's a lot less compared to GoT. It feels like the actresses are more aware of protecting their nudity this time around - GoT may have tricked a few into it.

[@donkeysunited]

On the mystery boxes, I heard that JJ Abrams recommended these showrunners to Amazon back when he had more credibility in the industry (before audiences found out he's useless).

[@Bookborn]

@@donkeysunited Yeah I just read that recently actually coming directly from the showrunners mouths - but it's weird that he recommended them and amazon took them when they literally have NOTHING under their belts...

[@vickdinvick5485]

Ohh man, theres soo much things wrong in this show, i would be really happy if the only things wrong were the lore bits. But thats hardly why the show fails (as a show not an adaptation). Even when the show is on its "best" it makes no sense, for exemple, everybody points out the relationship between elrond and durin was the highligh of the show, and i think maybe theres something wrong with me but that relationship was the most fabricated thing i've seen and it felt so fake because of that. Yes the performances were there, the chemistry were there, but from where? They just told us they are best friends, but are they really? If it wasnt for this convoluted plot to get mithril, Elrond probably would never go visit durin, he was doing nothing before and still missed out all the important events in his "best frinds" life, and even then the show wants us to believe durin would knowingly put all of his ppl in danger to help his best friend because they told us that is what they are. But why is that? We KNOW why gimli and legolas are now best friends it wasnd TOLD.

[@joewebster1]

Liked your alternate Galadrial story line, maybe there is hope we get some character re-thinks for season 2. In Tolkien's world there is always hope, even if it's a fools hope.. :)

[@Bookborn]

I'm gonna wait to see what the consensus is on the first couple episodes before watching tbh 😅 Mostly because the episodes are just SO LONG

[@grayavatar9766]

Remember hope is never mere (small) even when it is meager (small) 🤣

[@darianstarfrog]

Lol it's clear everyone on this show, is incapable of creating a solid show, season 2 isn't going to be better, if it does improve at all..it'll be a fluke , and won't last a whole season..

[@darianstarfrog]

@@Bookborn even we, who were pirating, as to not pad the numbers, didn't download many at all..I stopped at 3, it's shockingly bad , and is much more entertaining to watch as humorous recaps in yt. Sooo much better! But, the number for pirating is real small too..like surprisingly even.. hilarious.. and there's no merchandise! Lol Amazon's lying about the viewership..clearly

[@majkus]

It reminds me of Mark Twain's evisceration of James Fenimore Cooper's "The Deerslayer". Here is an excerpt; see how well Rings of Power can replace The Deerslayer: There are nineteen rules governing literary art in the domain of romantic fiction-some say twenty-two. In Deerslayer Cooper violated eighteen of them. These eighteen require: 1. That a tale shall accomplish something and arrive somewhere. But the Deerslayer tale accomplishes nothing and arrives in the air. 2. They require that the episodes of a tale shall be necessary parts of the tale, and shall help to develop it. But as the Deerslayer tale is not a tale, and accomplishes nothing and arrives nowhere, the episodes have no rightful place in the work, since there was nothing for them to develop. 3. They require that the personages in a tale shall be alive, except in the case of corpses, and that always the reader shall be able to tell the corpses from the others. But this detail has often been overlooked in the Deerslayer tale. 4. They require that the personages in a tale, both dead and alive, shall exhibit a sufficient excuse for being there. But this detail also has been overlooked in the Deerslayer tale. 5. They require that when the personages of a tale deal in conversation, the talk shall sound like human talk, and be talk such as human beings would be likely to talk in the given circumstances, and have a discoverable meaning, also a discoverable purpose, and a show of relevancy, and remain in the neighborhood of the subject in hand, and be interesting to the reader, and help out the tale, and stop when the people cannot think of anything more to say. But this requirement has been ignored from the beginning of the Deerslayer tale to the end of it.

[@Bookborn]

Ok but not number 3 😂 And like yeah...unfortunately RoP checked all these boxes 😬

[@tw7998]

Like you I had very high hopes and really wanted to love the show. I blame the writers for poor pacing and an utter lack of emotion and earned tension. I also agree that the harfoot content was pointless

[@Bookborn]

The showrunners haven't done anything else (their rotten tomato page is literally just this show) and it shows. big time.

[@gregbradshaw3410]

Here are the major rewrites I would do; 1. Replace Galadriel with her daughter Celebrian. 2. For now, remove Elron until it is time appropriate to start his romance with Celebrian. 3. Introduce Oropher and his son Thranduil. Show their tension with Gil-galad and how they tried to go into seclusion. That way we can see that not all of the elves are the same and bring better understanding of the "Wood Elves". 4. Get rid of the Hobbits and that whole story. 5. Get rid of the whole revenge story. 6. Make the champions (Galadriel) have to struggle to overcome an opponent. Having characters that are unstoppable is just boring to watch.

[@RevAnakin]

Love your rewrite! Even though in Lore, Galadriel immediately sees through Sauron's deception, if the show wanted to do a Galadriel/Sauron matchup, what you suggest is perfect.

[@Bookborn]

Yeah, I would've liked to see a Galadriel that saw through Sauron, but that would require a complete rewrite of the show to make it interesting - I think you'd have to stay mostly with the elves/dwarves and develop them believing him and her not. My rewrite was trying to keep their framework in place - whether for good or bad 😅

[@RevAnakin]

@@Bookborn absolutely, and that is why I love it so much! Maybe over the 50 hours of content we'll be able to cut it down into a tangible story :)

[@perkia164]

That is not entierly true. Galadriel did not see through Sarons deception, posing as Annatar. Nor did Gil-Galad or Cirdan. But they did sense that something was not right wth him, a "bad vibe" sort of. and that was enough for them to mistrust him. Had they realized that it was Sauron, they woukd have acted upon that. Galadriel could see through and to the inner heart of a person, so to speak, she couldnt do that on Annatar, therefore she got suspicous of him.

[@Makkaru112]

@@perkia164 she did actually. Instantly. Gracefully turned him down, Sussed him out fast! And it took annatar 500 years to even make a small dent within their culture. She knew he wasn't an elf as she didn't remember him studying amongst the valar alongside her. She'd remember them all as she's the youngest among the eldest of royalty from two types if elder elven clans.

[@Makkaru112]

@@perkia164 no, he couldn't read her mind while she could read his without him even knowing. Whenever he searched for her from afar he couldn't find her but she could find him!! The door remains closed.

[@MonasteryOfSilence]

Its truly a huge question mark how you thought the first episodes were going to a really good direction, lore aside it was literally unwatchable from the 1st episode.

[@samuelrussell5760]

There is a common problem in a lot of modern screen epics and adaptations such as the Rings of Power, but is also seen in the WoT adaptation and the Star Wars sequels. Stories and adaptations like this need a very detailed roadmap of what each episode or movie in the series is going to cover and a single person who is both responsible and has the authority to maintain that roadmap and vision. In hindsight, it is obvious that these are getting written and created piecemeal, with someone (and probably not just one person) just making it up as they go along. The creators like to claim that they had a consistent vision from the beginning, but it is clear this is not the case. You mention the expectation that each episode of the series have the feeling of being an individual story. I think these series would be much better if they went the other way and just committed to treating it like a single production. Film the whole thing and put it together. Then the last step is just breaking it into chunks for release. I worry that modern studios are not structured in a way that could really do this. The financing and staffing might simply not support committing to a big production all at once. That would be a shame.

[@Bookborn]

Yeah I mean it’s hard to say. Maybe if the show had a super clear direction than each episode not having a story line would feel fine. As it was here, the show felt so aimless that I was waiting for anything to feel like it was complete. Either way I completely agree that it’s jsut too many people and someone needs to be leading a single vision.

[@samuelrussell5760]

@@Bookborn Agreed. It's definitely possible to go either direction in terms of how episodic you want a series to be. But I think epic fantasy generally needs to be epic. If you want it to be a series of smaller stories that work together to tell a larger story, that actually requires more coordination and forethought. I don't want to see RoP look like the adventures of Xena. Another piece of this seems to be an obsession with subverting expectations and making sure that people on the internet can't guess what's coming next. Good storytelling requires good foreshadowing and building anticipation. People will guess what is coming next and that is a sign of success, not failure.

[@step4018]

The culture of modern corporations, especially those on the size of Disney and Amazon must be very difficult for creative people to cope with. It's why I expect we end up with show-runners who have not had a lot of experience as they are willing to "conform" and we get episodes by committee. Or perhaps its 5 minutes per writer as often they contradict the story in the same episode... A creative person with a lot of passion for the work and keeping people to the roadmap would probably been seen as a bully now 🤷‍♂

[@donkeysunited]

@@step4018 Very true. You need a bully to keep everyone in line. Preferably a bully with an incredible creative mind and a healthy respect for any established lore. Replace bully with focused and determined if you like, but they still need to be able to say No to idiots and to make everyone step up.

[@MrPhantomplatypus]

This show felt like they made the plot up episode by episode without an overarching plan for the plot. Character choices felt like they were made up by the writers on the spot. Felt that the minute Galadriel jumped off a ship and decided to SWIM ACROSS AN ENTIRE OCEAN. Elf or no that’s just plain ridiculous.

[@MrPhantomplatypus]

Like it’s a 4 day journey through Moria. It would take her months to swim back to middle earth lmao

[@Bookborn]

It’s like every episode they had a new writer who only got a summary of the previous ep and they just had to do their best lol

[@doychinkutsarov9866]

This review is right on point and it reflects what we all think. I am more scared for season 2. Thank you.

[@Bookborn]

I'm not going to watch season 2 until after I've heard reviews tbh 🙈

[@kareliask]

I agree totally. This show sucks as a Tolkien adaptation, BUT if it was just a good fantasy show that made sense on its own merits, it would please most of the audience. I can't comprehend how the writing was so incoherent and lacking in quality, I think they just hired completely incompetent people to produce the show, from top to bottom. They thought that it looking pretty would cover over all the cracks, but the way a show looks is the icing on the cake, it can't make a bad show good.

[@Bookborn]

I mean the writers haven't written anything else that's actually been put into production, so they were certainly untested. But I also think there's an element to writing-by-committee to it - I mean FOURTEEN exec producers??

[@kareliask]

@@Bookborn Amazon definitely thought that they could do the same thing the Hollywood movie industry has been doing for the past ten years - hiring very inexperienced talent to head productions, in order to have more studio influence over people who are just grateful to be there. A showrunning situation is so different from a new director being autopiloted through a movie by their team - you need people with a sense of the bigger picture, and who can crack the whip. I don't think the modern system for producing television likes this type of personality, and it shows. From what I've heard about the state of the modern writer's room (eg. when Walter Mosley was reported by a white member of the Star Trek Discovery writer's team for recounting an instance of racism he experienced and using the word he was called), a place where traditionally any creative ideas should be able to be explored without those ideas being viewed as a judgement on the individual has been completely lost, and I think this situation creates a lot of groupthink and lazy work. It's also a self-replicating cycle that can only get worse, as we've seen over the past ten years, due to the very narrow range of experience the system hires people from. They're all weird unrelatable LA people, or desperate to be like that.

[@RaabStephan]

Sounds like it's time for you to watch a good show, with good writing and acting and payouts to mysteries...like "Dark" on Netflix.

[@Bookborn]

I started Andor and liked it haha! And I just had Stranger Things!

[@darianstarfrog]

Karate kid is actually really good too.. but also ofcourse the haunting of hill house, and bly manour, aswell as midnight mass, are great in the darker series

[@karmelomarin9592]

@@Bookborn i highly recommend The Expanse, talking about great adaptation, storytelling and character arcs.

[@themsuicjunkies]

​@@Bookborn Dark is basically a perfect show. Though is slow burn.

[@danielbroome5690]

What's funny about the magic creep is that literally the LOTR D&D 5E game book figured out the metric to use for spellcasting. Don't include it, but if you do, keep it to cantrip type effects. Vague, non-directly applicable magic. No fireballs, just things like a light, sensing an aura, tracking someone's steps in the dirt, marking an object with a small colourful mark. That type of thing. Gandalf is the closest we ever get to a D&D spell and the most powerful equivalent he uses in D&D would be a makeshift fireball using pinecones which at best just pisses off and scares the wargs, cleared the clouds and let the light of creation in the sun hurt the orcs and the nazgul, he uses a shield spell against the balrog, and he uses a warding on a door that the balrog uses counter-spell on and tries to connect telepathically with gandalf. These are all VERY minor magical powers which border on useless unless applied in a smart way. The Paradox of magic in LOTR is that the powerful D&D type spells and stuff are possible by the maiar or valar, BUT they're intentionally withheld cause last time they unleashed that sort of power they sunk Beleriand.

[@Bookborn]

Absolutely right! Plus, the way that the very soft magic system in LOTR is balanced out is that magic often causes problems (for example, when Gandalf uses it to save everyone from the Balrog, we also lose Gandalf)

[@themsuicjunkies]

The First and Second Age have a lot of higher magic than the Third Age. Elves from Valinor and Numenoreans should be all Aragorns and Legolas. In all ROP I never felt the hubris and power of Numenor. They dont look any more advance or epic than Gondor or Rohan.

[@DreamsOfLegend]

This was a good perspective for me to hear as someone who loves Tolkien and REALLY doesn't like the show 👍 You took it apart WITHIN itself and separate from the butchering of the lore. I kept getting super annoyed when the world building sucked (Celebrimbor and Elrond need to TRAVEL to the dwarves and BOOM the next scene they're THERE in the same clothes no travel bags nothing) Or when characters were SUPPOSED to be skilled but do DUMB stuff (Like Arondir a trained military man deciding to ABANDON a fortified STONE keep with one point of entry to a one story thatch innkeep) I kept telling myself over and over (especially with "armor" that looked like PLASTIC and neoprene painted wet suits) HOW IS THIS COSTING $60 MILLION PER EPISODE 😅🤙🏼

[@v1e1r1g1e1]

When KZbinrs feel the need to re-write Rings Of Power... to make it, ''make sense'' or ''improve'' it... then you just KNOW the whole series is garbage.

[@DaftRabbit09]

There wasn't even style, there was just nothing. The combat was terribly done (or looked more like a do-si-do at times), the writing was beyond dreadful, the lore and timelines were completely ignored, there was hardly any visual story-telling at all, and the actors might as well have been hired off the streets.

[@Bookborn]

I personally feel that the scenery was incredible. The costumes and script and everything else left everything to be desired.

[@neilrusling3438]

I do not have the words to describe my revulsion to this travesty, I cant work out what they are doing. They have a huge building of a great story, all they had to do was put some furniture in it and they have a winner. Instead they demolish this masterpiece of a building, this glorious 100 room mansion perfectly decorated, and in its place they build a shed?.....WHAT IS GOING ON??? Why are they desecrating Tolkiens vision for their own total crap when this could almost write itself. Season One- Anatar slithers his way into Elvish plans, the forging of the rings and finally reveals himself. No dirty awful hobbits needed. Season Two- The wars of the rings begin. Battles in Fangorn and Misty Mountains, the destruction Eregion, Balrog in Moria. Season Three- The Wars continue, Sauron corrupts the nine kings of men. The Numenorians start to divide into the kings men and the faithful, Sauron looks like winning until the Numenorians turn up. Season Four- Sauron corrupts Numenor, the dwarves lose Moria. The elves persue the Orcs and Black Numenorians. The war against the Valar and destruction of Numenor, Elendil escapes. Season Five- The founding of Gondor and Arnor. Sauron returns to Mordor and gathers his armies. The last alliance of elves and men with one huge war across all Middle Earth, Sauron is defeated. What is wrong with that?...Its a thousand times better because its Tolkiens story and not the pathetic sack of rancid shite we got.

[@mtgemperor]

In the case of Galadriel's arc within the show, anyone can easily make a near one-to-one comparison with Korra in Legend of Korra, especially during the Red Lotus arc. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers got together and said, "Let's make another Korra but instead of an Avatar, make it Galadriel of LOTR!" At the end of it all, the side characters (the non-original characters) outshined the lore-characters. Much like Legend of Korra. People connected with the villains; just like the Red Lotus and the Separatists in Legend of Korra. Rings of Power is just a LOTR-skin with a Legend of Korra framework.

[@bitsow]

I've been watching a lot of YT creators rant. "Mary Sue, race, women can't do that, member berries, I can only speak in south Park memes." It's a breath of fresh air to hear a succinct and level headed critique of what the issues were.

[@sionnadehr3313]

Wait... they were trying to make Elrond an outcast? He's the son of the freaking hero of Middle Earth (Earendil whose power Frodo possesses in the trilogy). That doesn't make sense which is why they probably dropped it from the narrative

[@Bookborn]

It doesn't make sense AT ALL considering in the novels, like you stated, he was incredibly respected. But if they were going to introduce it in episode 1, at least follow through on it!

[@Briaaanz]

I was hopeful a few years ago. Amazon was doing a great job with The Expanse. They announced Wheel of Time, LOTR, Ringworld, and Snowcrash. All books that i loved. I'm no longer hopeful. At all. Add in the horrible writing on Apple's Foundation series (noted exception on the Emperor's plotline)... I'm actively starting to hate streaming networks even looking at my treasured books

[@matwton777]

I don't believe you can ever divorce this production (not an adaptation by any means) from the lore that it claims to hold in such high regard, but beyond that...the similarities to Amazon's Wheel of Time are everywhere!!! All flash but no substance in both cases (even less flash from WoT)...Amazon studios seems to count on an audience that suspends all disbelief in the face of pretty pastels and swooning tones. Another unimpressive (and boring) attempt at entertainment.

[@Bookborn]

True, we really SHOULDN'T divorce it (and I'll have a whole lot to say about the "lets make sauron a complex bad guy" thing because come on people that's not Sauron), but if the show was at the very least ENTERTAINING I could've gotten on board, you know? But it failed even that.

[@azraelsblade]

The series was meh; I did enjoy the Kylo/Rey-ish exchange between Galadriel and Halbrand. A redditor named u/A_Navigator Edain posted a great story idea where no one is Sauron; Sauron has been in the background pulling strings the whole time- poisoning the trees in Lindon, influencing Celebrimbor, manipulating events to get Galadriel out of the picture. The big reveal should have been just some androgynous golden elf dude walking out of the shadows as the 7 and 9 were being forged…

[@Bookborn]

Oh that's absolutely a great idea for Sauron. We didn't NEED The sauron mystery box in any way. It was cheap story telling.