How To Make Boring Characters - Rings of Power

[@TheCloserLook]

I’m looking to hire a video editor! If you have experience with editing, and are looking for work, send me an email at [e-mail] I’m not just looking for a skilled editor, I’m crucially looking for someone who totally gets the spirit of this channel, loves good stories just as much as me, and someone who I can work with to elevate these videos from merely slapping movie clips together into something much more visually engaging. I'd rather work with someone passionate and moderately skilled than passionless and very skilled. Things to cover in the email: -Your past work (including links/attachments) -About your journey as an editor -Where are you in life? -For how long have you watched my channel? Why have you carried on watching it for this long? -What do you think The Closer Look is about? What is the spirit of the channel? -What was the last story you came across that simply swept you away, and why? -What is your least favourite movie/show released in the past year, and why? -What is a take you have on recent media that is surely a very unpopular opinion? -How do you feel about the current state of either Star Wars or the MCU? Whichever you’re the most passionate about. -If you’ve charged for editing services before, how much has been your standard rate? (It’s not a deal breaker if you’ve never been hired before.) Please note that your country doesn’t matter; as long as you can always get back to me within 24 hours of a message on weekdays, time zones are no issue. I’m looking forward to meeting you! Henry

[@mugetsubg]

Your videos are so interesting to listen to. Thank you!

[@mikeroni]

Good luck in your search! To be honest, I think your current style is perfect. I like seeing similar scenes to what you’re pitching, that added context helps so much. Adding some quote cards when you mention key points could be a fancy touch…

[@welp...]

In other words... you are looking for an apprentice :)))

[@Kidelta-z9f]

if i wasn't in high school i would literally sign up straight away, literally this would be my dream job at the moment. your videos inspire me to become a novelist, still writing my first novel and every time i see your videos i think that i really need to continue writing it.

[@mikeroni]

@@Kidelta-z9f you should fill out an application to volunteer for him if you have the time! It sounds like he wants a more direct working relationship, but you never know, maybe in a year or 2 they’ll need more help than just 1 editor - free is always a bonus lol

[@sinfjotlisghost465]

I think another low-key reason that Galadriel was so hard to get invested in is because they gave her an end-goal that the audience knows with 100% certainty she will not achieve. Her goal, however poorly explained or motivated, is to kill Sauron, but we know who eventually does that and it isn't her. She isn't even going to be present when it happens. There's no tension or uncertainty there. It's very difficult to get worked up rooting for someone when you have no doubt that they will fail.

[@andrewcizas4362]

In that situation, the best approach would've been to reduce the focus on her actual objective and focus more on the toll it is taking on her character. If we can't hope for her to succeed, we should at least be able to watch her character mature and evolve over the course of the story. The problem is that they didn't give her an internal conflict that's worth being invested in. Her greatest flaw (that the show actually acknowledges) is that she's too committed to her goal, and yet she's essentially proven right by the end, so it's not even really a flaw. Watching her story is like watching a hamster wheel spinning in endless circles, but somehow even less engaging.

[@Noone-of-your-Business]

Even worse, when it _does_ happen a whole age later, she has completely overcome her fundamental *hatred* and has become a MUCH more rounded character. Which is a character arc the writers *_might_* have planned for her, but I just don't see these two completely different characters meeting anywhere to make this a plausible and convincing development.

[@Whatsdogpee]

I would have to respectfully disagree. To know that a character fails before the character is just an example of dramatic irony which adds to the experience. A movie that pops into mind is Valkyrie-the Tom Cruise movie based on the life of the German official who realized Hitler was a bad guy and try to assassinate him. I found it still a captivating movie despite knowing that Hitler died by suicide and not by assassination. For videogames, FFVII Crisis Core comes to mind. You already know the main character dies at the end if you played the original. It doesn’t stop a person from enjoying and cheering for the protagonist regardless. Thus, while you may not have the same experiences as I have, Im sure you can relate with examples of your own where despite knowing the end result, you still cared for the characters. :)

[@arnaeri9290]

I think having a pre-set ending for a character before the story begins doesn't subtract from how engaging the story can be. The chose one trope exists. There's also the Joker movie and Arcane's Jinx. Maybe for casual viewers it might've been an unexpected turn, but all the fans of the game knew where the story was going and it didn't affect the investment of the viewers one bit. It's not about the goal per say, but as Andrew Cizas said it's how you write it. Hell I'm rewatching Supernatural and I'm mortified that 20 years ago shows had better writing than whatever costs billions to produce now.

[@sinfjotlisghost465]

@@Whatsdogpee I don't mean to imply that a known outcome makes it impossible to get invested in a character. It just means that the writers have to work extra hard in other areas of the character, which in this case... Really, this should have been a want vs need thing. Killing Sauron is her want, but she was never given a need that saw any follow through.

[@danielskrivan6921]

A show that I think exemplifies that viewers will come back for the characters is Supernatural. The show ran 15 seasons. Most of the seasons after Season 5 were bad. But fans kept tuning in because they were in love with Sam, Dean, and a few others they met along the way.

[@detoxfidelity]

I think it also had like a really well defined tone and aesthetic. Like it always felt uniquely “Supernatural”. I was going to say Worldbuilding too, but that also went to shit after season 5 too, the lore and rules of the world are super inconsistent.

[@liammiller5244]

As a SPN fan this is beyond true. Seasons upon seasons of BS, but I watched cause Sam, Dean, Cas, even Lucifer and Crowley were so damn watchable and likeable.

[@danielskrivan6921]

@@liammiller5244 Or hateable, but in a charismatic way that you still enjoyed when they were on screen.

[@Slender_Man_186]

I’ll do you one better: Dragon Ball. From 1986 to 1996, a chapter of the of the manga and an episode of the anime was released every single week. The story is a complete mess, the writer was making it up as he went along the entire time based solely on feedback from fans and his editors, writing and illustrating entire chapters in just 3 days sometimes, introducing the worst power creep any franchise has probably ever had, the anime had to add a bunch of pointless filler because it was being animated faster than the manga was being written at many points, and it had multiple drastic tonal shifts throughout. And yet, despite all of that, characters people had come to love like Goku, Bulma, Krillin, Roshi, Tien, Piccolo, Gohan, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Videl, and even the villains like Frieza have kept people watching even despite the quality dropping after the lead writer stopped mainly working on the series.

[@4203105]

@@detoxfidelity Ugh, yeah the disregarding of the rules of the world really ground my gears. I think the worst was when they burned demon bones to destroy them with the explaination that demons were "really just souped up ghosts". Problem is ghosts don't get destroyed by salting and burning their bones. Their physical remains are just what keeps them in this world. Purifying them with salt and fire just sends the spirit to the afterlife (most of the time hell, since they were assholes, hence the fire-effect). Demons are souls that already went to hell and crawled their way back out, after being tortured into their current, twisted form. Salting and burning their bones should do nothing to them. And yet, I still watched till the bitter end, because the characters were relatable and it was a fun ride a lot of the time.

[@kristianandreasboban2358]

This really shows how lucky we were to have Peter Jackson doing the original Trilogy. It could have so easily been mishandled and then we wouldn't have had those classic films today.

[@gaebren9021]

'Original' Trilogy? No! They are Peter Jackson movies, they are NOT the 'original' Trilogy. The original trilogy are the books by Tolkien. You know, the guy who wrote the story.

[@mallorycarpinski1160]

@@gaebren9021 I see your point but he clearly means film trilogy or adaptation. And yes they're not perfect but definitely still well executed films.

[@UnknownName5050]

@@mallorycarpinski1160 they aren’t the original films or adaptations either.

[@gaebren9021]

@@mallorycarpinski1160 I believe the Ralph Bakshi 1978 animated "Lord of the Rings" would have been the original adaptation.

[@vanyadolly]

Most of all because he knew how to make characters *more* relateable, and why it's important. He gave them character arcs and internal conflict where there were none.

[@kaylaanderson5505]

They clearly thought her *being* Galadriel was all we needed to care about her, because we already care about the original Galadriel.

[@user-qj9en1kp1m]

Yeah, I have the feeling that this show is taking advantage of the fact that many people watched the Peter Jackson movies and care about the characters. So it doesn't have to try as hard. But the Peter Jackson movies, for all their occasional faults, were lightning in a bottle. Their magic cannot be replicated, even Peter Jackson couldn't do it.

[@dieyng]

IDK, they put so much effort into making her not at all like the real Galadriel. That seems like a contradiction. 🙂

[@kenji214245]

They didn't think Galadriel had enough power as a woman in the lore so they wanted to make her more powerful and empowered. "practically the words of the writers of the show". . .

[@kaylaanderson5505]

@@dieyng I mean more in the sense that her name is Galadriel and she sort of looks like Galadriel, thus we’re expected to buy into and care about this random blonde in front of us. As well as being expected to crave a story about her enough to ignore all the glaring inconsistencies, even though they stripped away or changed everything else about her.

[@waynehewett4017]

I bet I wasn't the only one hoping Galadriel would have a very painful death As she certainly deserved it

[@CausalityLoop]

I cared more about Haldir's death in Two Towers more than I cared about anyone in this show.

[@asinicw9906]

And Haldirs death didn't even happen in the book so that tells you how unimpactful this story is

[@OnionTheBat]

I felt nothing for Haldir since he only appeared in one scene prior tbh

[@coolerheadsprevail9312]

I know what you mean. He was practically a ghost, he showed up in a dire time. Also, Aragorn hugged him with such gratitude that it resonated with me, at least. His death was like missing the bus or something.

[@zarrowthehorse]

I didn't

[@Finn_the_Goldfish]

Same with Saruman and Grima, at least they were important to the story.

[@TNTacdc]

Your description of Elrond's apprenticeship under Celebrimbor made me feel more emotional than anything in the actual show. Not sure if I should be impressed, or even sadder.

[@NeverKilledHillock]

First video I watched from him and this moment made me subscribe. Telling someone that their story is weak... is easy, but actually telling a better story. Now I wanna see his version.

[@jasonsanders3703]

P

[@SuperExpert]

100% agree. I want this storyline now 😆

[@cmasterson]

@@SuperExpert so me as someone who don't know the books, never saw the complete first movies, think I saw one movie, but I kinda understand the point, this makes sense. I'm at 37:16 in the video and I have never saw the TV show and I swear the setup and his explanation sounds like that is exactly what should have happened. And to further explain why I haven't seen the movies and shows. I own my own business and work from home. I do alot of design work from graphics, videos, architectural design, business development and business setup and launching. Often I have videos playing in the background but I don't watch it. I use it as white noise but I still understand whats happening. Often "explained or "review" videos pop up and I watch or listen to it. I have 3 children in the home one with special needs so I often have to stop and pause to help my wife. I am also a veteran with a disability and alot of pain. So I can go 12 days and be fine and then 4 days barely able to move. But I said all that to say. I enjoy hearing others opinions on stuff I don't even know of and have never watched. Imagine a friend that never saw or read the books and its 2023 and you have to tell them to start somewhere. But you kinda have to explain everything from the characters to the movies, books, and shows and which order to watch. Its crazy but my mind likes chaos lol 😆 I work better under pressure. So I watch TV shows based on fan and critics chaos lmao 🤣

[@erocgittens5962]

Dont worry my friend, i felt the same way. it made me sad that thats not what happened.

[@CountessOfOle]

Bringing her husband Celeborn and daughter Celebrian in as characters that spur a protective motive in Galadriel would make extra sense when you know that Celebrian is captured by orcs and tortured so badly she has nothing left of herself, and the only respite she could find was going into the West. A trip from which there is no returning. If they moved that from the third age to the second age (an easy enough thing to do, given their willingness to fudge other timeline elements), that devastating loss would be an excellent motivator that would resonate with anyone. Especially parents. Could even be a hard-punching season conclusion. She works so hard to protect her family from the horrors she endured only to see the absolute worst thing happen to her daughter. But no. Let's make her a loner that has absolutely no compelling loyalty to anyone. Cool.

[@dieyng]

Hey, she couldn't be a badass fighter and perfect in anything with a tragic story like that. 🙂

[@emhullum4120]

She could have spent the show trying to find her husband and found sauron instead. that simple change would have moderately improved her character...fighting to rescue the one she loves.

[@cmasterson]

I use to gripe about YTr's critiquing movies and TV shows down to changing scenes. But 3 years later after GOT and this and others, ... I don't understand how this all makes sense and the Hollywood writers don't even think of this. They get paid to do this. Idk if its the "we have to do the opposite of what the audience thinks is going to happen, or the we have to do the unexpected to subverse the audience expectations", but they are really messing up loved movies and TV shows and books. Its ridiculous at this point. KZbinrs are doing it 10x better and we all are just damn fans of it, we don't get paid for it. I have many degrees and even taught game designs,... I swear I have never had to use or type the wors "subversive" until after Game of Thrones TV Show. Its everywhere now and in every movie and TV show.

[@leftyfourguns]

Celebrian, Elrond’s wife right? Making Galadriel his 4,000 year old mother in law I believe? But she’s SUPPOSED to be young immature Disney princess that has to prove herself!

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@leftyfourguns Turns out Elrond's brother is also a direct ancestor to Aragorn. So when Aragorn asked Elrond to get into it with Arwen, he basically dated his own great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-uncle (it's like 60 generations on Aragorn's side) But that isn't an issue, as she is not only Elrond's mother-in-law but also his 4rd cousin over two different lines, and Celeborn is her 2nd cousin. The elven family tree is more like a net of vines. And Galadriel is old, very old. She saw the light of the two trees back in the days before the sun and the stars before the world was turned from a disc into a sphere.

[@Pwn3dbyth3n00b]

The Harfoots was probably the WORST story arc I've ever seen on a show. It makes me actively root against them with how hypocritical they are with how they stay together except for those who get injured then you leave them to the wolves to die.

[@Prototype-357]

The writers really didn't think this one through, here's something else that's been pointed out to me: it's about the human-elf romance subplot, it was stated that Arondir ( I THINK that's his name?) had been at that same village for many decades and judging by her appearence and the age of her son Bronwyn has to be in her thirties AT MOST, this means Arondir probably was at the village *while Bronwyn was growing up*. Arondir saw this girl grow up and he has romantic feelings towards her, possibly sexual intentions too? I'm not caugth up in the lore enough to know how Elves feel about sex. But just wonder for a moment how much they must have interacted when she was a kid, the show never goes into too much detail about it but depending on their interactions when she was young doesn't this look like Grooming? I'm not against human/immortal romance stories, I don't even have a problem with Age Gap romances in fiction and definetly not in real life, as long as both people are adults willingly giving their consent it's their bussiness and none of mine... but in this case considering that he was around when she was a kid, it's a little... icky? I don't think he was a father figure to her or anything but still.

[@femkev.5245]

Also not to mention that the entire storyline (as it stands now) could be cut and literally NOTHING would change. It doesn't influence the main plot whatsoever. You could easily take the Stranger and move him into a different storyline. I'm pretty sure the only reason he's there is because he's Gandalf and the creators were like, "see!!! This is why Gandalf likes hobbits! Aren't we geniuses?"

[@elliotnicklinmusic]

It’s almost like they’re their own mythical species with their own moral code

[@IshtarNike]

Really a completely psychopathic storyline. If they needed hobbits they should have just made them like hobbits. Not made them hobbits who abandon their family to death on a whim.

[@IshtarNike]

@@elliotnicklinmusic yes, but ultimately they're unlikable and this fact clearly goes against the intentions of the storyline and framing. If you want to make an alien race with a different moral code it needs to be buttressed and fleshed out and explored. The way it was shot suggests that the audience were supposed to see it as harsh but not evil. However to most normal people such callous abandonment seems genuinely evil so it makes it much harder to empathize with the characters after that.

[@michaelwright3830]

They flucked up the Elves from the beginning by showing Guyladriel's troops being so negatively affected by the snowstorm because they are supposed to be able to deal with it quite well. Legolas was walking across the top of the snow without breaking the crust and these goofballs are dying off from it.

[@HNCS2006]

Actually the show doesn't ignore the fact that she has a husband, though it does neglect the daughter. It's said in passing in episode 7, she has a husband, she sent him away to war (same war as her brother) in ill-suited armor and she says she never saw him again. Which makes her motivation to kill sauron even more bizarre. If her husband has not been found, why is she not looking for her husband? If she thinks he's dead, why is she not hunting sauron for both her brother and her husband?

[@irena4545]

I would say that bringing her husband up once for barely a minute in the last but one episode doesn't contradict the statement that the show ignores him :D

[@a.firkaly6548]

It makes sense if her brother and her husband are the same person 👀

[@brushylake4606]

Even the mention of Celeborn is nonsensical. He is one of the greatest warriors and military leaders of the Dark Elves. He is a cousin to the King of Doriath. He is mentioned as the wisest of all elves that had not resided in Aman...but he couldn't find armor that fit. Bloody hell these people are idiots.

[@thel1355]

The character they wanted to write wouldn't have a husband and daughter, so they just unofficially ignore that. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the original plan was to make her Gayladriel.

[@Warraci]

Too bad they made Celeborn a complete pansy, when he was anything but.

[@brianevans9231]

The fact the Lord of the rings movies are now referred to the original trilogy sent shivers down my spine

[@primeirrational]

It’s horrible, isn’t it?

[@Mr_avenger709]

Wouldn’t they have been called that ever since the hobbit trilogy came out?

[@cradiculous]

@@Mr_avenger709 I guess if the Lord of the Rings movies are considered the original trilogy, that makes the Hobbit movies like the prequels. And honestly that seems fitting for many reasons.

[@oscarstainton]

@@cradiculous And the Amazon series is the Disney Trilogy of the Middle-earth saga. Much as I loathe history repeating itself to this unoriginal extent, Rings of Power and the ST showed how much worse it can get than a George Lucas or Peter Jackson prequel.

[@andreashort310]

@@cradiculous One of them probably being that they are the prequels.

[@Kait2478]

Your rewrite of Galadriel's motivations made me realize she also just falls into this modern female hero stereotype of a young woman, loner, badass. Even for someone who's been alive for thousands of years. To make her into a mother who has depth would make her multi-dimensional, which for some reason is just incomprehensible to a lot of writers today. I don't understand it.

[@semicolone]

Because the writers in question never became a mother to their own child, or they never accumulate wisdom over the years because of their out-of-touch sheltered life.

[@lisagonzalez1371]

Wasn't she a mother in the source material? I thought that was why

[@sadpiano8179]

Exactlyyyy

[@julianblake8385]

Because they were following a woke agenda that tries to make women act like resented, bitter feminists who want to be what they think men are.

[@LlamaMan321]

Yep. I think creator of this video missed a big reason: the writers' primary goal was to deliver a message, not write a compelling story.

[@sjarsmovies4760]

About the part where someone chooses the bad side when presented the choice, I think we can see such a moment in avatar the last airbender. When zuko is on the tipping point of joining the good side, he is presented with the option to get everything he's wanted for years and he caves. That was really compelling, I enjoyed watching that twist and seeing the journey back to the good side.

[@donkeywithascarf2435]

Oh man. Zuko's character arc is beautifully crafted. He's my favorite character in the Avatar series. 🥲

[@GeekazonDeals]

Best redemption arc ever because they had the courage to have him fail the first time

[@Calvinosaur]

The protagonist of the Dresden Files novels chooses the bad side twice--once as a ploy and once for real, although in both cases the side he agrees to join is on the dark side of morally gray, rather than outright villainous.

[@jeramahia123]

The irony of that example you gave with Galadriel's daughter is that's actually what happens. She's kidnapped and tortured by orks. It's a big reason why Elrond, her daughter's husband, and his sons hate orks so much.

[@hunterpdx7061]

I think that Elrond's neglect of Durin over 20 years says more about Elves in general than Elrond specifically and this would have been fun to explore more. They are eternal and timeless. 20 years probably feels like a long weekend to them. Time ceases to mean much when it doesn't really affect you personally. Dwarves live a long time themselves, but it still is very brief compared to the Elves.

[@fantasywind3923]

Well...sort of...but the Dwarves in Tolkien's world also live for hundreds of years so 20 years is not that big of a time period for both of the longeval races. It would make sense to contrast the immortality of Elves and mortals, even using a longer time period (though the showmakers basically did a massive time compression for the sake of the tv show, events from across thousands of years into single period of time!), for the Dwarves 20 years is not even enough for a dwarf child to grow up (the Dwarves are considered very young too young for hard work or battle when they are still around 30 years old :)) “Their average age (unless they met a violent death) was about 250 years, which they seldom fell far short of, but could occasionally far exceed (up to 300)” “Dwarves remained young - e.g. regarded as too tender for really hard work or for fighting - until they were 30 or nearly that.” “By forty all Dwarves looked much alike in age, until they reached what they regarded as old age, about 240. They then began to age and wrinkle and go white quickly (baldness being unknown among them), unless they were going to be long-lived, in which case the process was delayed.” “…’old age’ lasted not much more than ten years, and from say 40 or a little before to near 240 (two hundred years) the capacity for toil (and for fighting) of most Dwarves was equally great.” In the Quest of Erebor in Unfinished Tales it's even mentioned about Gimli and why he did not take part in quest of Erebor during events of The Hobbit: “And I was not allowed to go on the quest: too young, they said, though at sixty-two I thought myself fit for anything.” :) still obviously there are also other things, in this world there is no means of quick travel and Lindon is very far away from Moria and Elrond as one of the underlings of the elven-king Gil-galad was probably busy with stuff :). The aspect of immortality and mortality, death and desire for deathlessness could have been main theme of the show if it was done with Tolkien's intents in mind, the Elves would have been eternal and unchangign while the world around them changes and this would have been interesting visual cue to see various places, and how they change over time while the elf is still around the same as was before :), then also the whole thing with the Numenoreans envy of the Elves...is that they envied their immortality and feared death! Numenoreans were also very long lived but just like it is with human nature they were not satisfied with their long lifespan (the oldest Numenorean lived to be around 500 years, and that was Elros Tar-Minyatur the founder of Numenor, the first king and twin brother of Elrond who chose mortal life.

[@hunterpdx7061]

@@fantasywind3923 Yeah I think I would have preferred it if Durin had said "a century" or something like that. 20 years seems very human, unless they were very close friends with lots of shared history and Elrond had promised to see him "next season". I can't recall if Durin complains that Elrond didn't see his children grow up. I think he might have. That might sting a little bit, too. But I would have loved exploration into the "deathlessness" of the Elves and why they are compelled to leave Middle Earth. Mithril has nothing to do with it. Told from a well written PoV of Galadriel, Gil-Galad and Elrond, this could have unified a story arc across the Second Age without the need to compress time as they did. Eventually, they depart for Valinor because living in Middle Earth becomes too painful, filled with sorrow and loss. Better to remain among one's immortal kin, perhaps? Elrond kind of makes a similar argument to Arwen in LoTR,. He focuses on the pain of mortality for both her and Aragorn.

[@fantasywind3923]

@@hunterpdx7061 as a side note I must say that I was a bit surprised that they focused on Elrond friendship with the dwarf when from both lore and narrative perspective it would have been better for the show to focus more on the Celebrimbor and Narvi relationship, the friendship of elf-lord who was crucial figure for forging the titular Rings of Power would have more impact narratively. Celebrimbor and Narvi together made the West-door of Moria: ""The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria. Speak 'friend' and enter. I, Narvi, made them, Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs." The signs were made from ithildin the special alloy of mithril :). Celebrimbor in general should have been more central figure what with his role in the forging of the Rings....unfortunately they butchered his character completely, the worst casting choice and completely relegated to the sidelines as a character in the show itself. In Unfinished Tales we also have the note: "Celebrimbor had "an almost 'dwarvish' obsession with crafts"; and he soon became the chief artificer of Eregion, entering into a close relationship with the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm, among whom his greatest friend was Narvi." (Unfinished Tales, Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn) Anyway the longer time periods would work well for portraying the difference between perception of time in Elve and mortals, a 100 years can still be blink of an eye for an elf, centuries pass and they themselve change little, the words of Legolas from book portray it nicely: ""Legolas stirred in his boat. 'Nay, time does not tarry ever,' he said; 'but change and growth is not in all things and places alike. For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves. The passing seasons are but ripples ever repeated in the long long stream. Yet beneath the Sun all things must wear to an end at last.'" This grief for the fading of things and unrelentless passage of time should be major philosophical theme in the show!! AS Galadriel also said: "'That what should be shall be,' she answered. 'The love of the Elves for their land and their works is deeper than the deeps of the Sea, and their regret is undying and cannot ever wholly be assuaged. Yet they will cast all away rather than submit to Sauron: for they know him now. For the fate of Lothlórien you are not answerable but only for the doing of your own task. Yet I could wish, were it of any avail, that the One Ring had never been wrought, or had remained for ever lost.'" This would have played perfectly into the motivation for the forging of the Rings and their powers being this solution to the elve weariness with the world and it's rapid changes.

[@hunterpdx7061]

@@fantasywind3923 I definitely would have preferred a more accurate depiction of the creation of the rings. If they absolutely had to compress thousands of years as they did, they should focused on Celebrimbor more accurately than they did. And, yeah, what Legolas said 100%. While being a Tolkien fan I've only read through the books a handful of times. I've gotten through at least the early parts of the Silmarillion. The Times of the Lamps and the Trees really fascinate me. Kind of "when gods roamed the Earth" kind of thing. Oh, and the Harfoots. It goes without saying that they need to be jettisoned. What a waste of space they are. Most of the show is a waste which is why it's so frustrating. I doubt we'll have this opportunity again, and to see it squandered so badly...😠

[@notenoughodinson5912]

I think that's a cop out. 20 years is still 20 years, no one in middle earth experiences time differently, it passes the same for everyone. Not an attack against you, I just don't like that line whether it comes from Elrond or Thranduil in the Hobbit. Thranduil at least uses it as a threat that he can outlast Thorin, whilst Elrond is using it as to manipulate Durin so he can excuse himself from missing his wedding, birthdays etc. Because now he wants something from Durin. The writers obviously didn't intend it to come off that way but that'd because they are bad writers, it didn't feel genuine at all.

[@minerman60101]

I asked myself, "Why does Frodo want to destroy the one ring?" and instantly my brain flashed to scenes of how characters like Bilbo and Gandalf are compelled to supernatural lust for the ring's power, how threatening the Nazgul are and the idea of them getting the ring. Frodo _sees_ why this artifact is evil, how its mere existence will spread evil, and seduce people into doing evil. 20:16 The show Inside Job does this, in fact :)

[@Slender_Man_186]

And in the end he is corrupted by it all the same despite hobbits being the least susceptible to its influence. The only character who isn’t corrupted by it is Tom Bombadil, but he’s like a stoner wizard god with no want for power whatsoever so take that as you will.

[@mattparsons2045]

Frodo also has the added layer of depth because he knows consciously that the ring must be destroyed but it's also slowly corrupting him into desiring it for himself.

[@TomBombadil3791]

@@Slender_Man_186 no, he is a meme

[@tubetorpedo]

​@@Slender_Man_186 Ring has little power over hobbits because most of the hobbits have little desires outside hearty meal and few drinks. Ring has little to work with so corruption works slowly. Of course, there are individuals who would be more susceptible for corruption than others, just like Gollum was.

[@Slender_Man_186]

@@luth9119 he only had the ring for a little while, and like Frodo and Bilbo he’s a hobbit, who are a pretty care free type. He was still changed by the ring though, he could slightly see Galadriel’s ring, which is normally invisible to most people.

[@RainbowMan9407]

Fun fact: this remains the only show my family has quit out of boredom. We didn't even make it to the second episode because none of us cared about anyone.

[@faithparker6]

I watched about half of it (the first few and the ending out of morbid curiosity). You didn't miss anything and it didn't get better. Stick with the youtubers roasting the show. Far more entertaining.

[@darktenor4967]

Interestingly enough, for those who know the lore, if Galadriel had been motivated to hunt Sauron to protect Celebrian from horror, that would've had a nicely tragic twist. For those who don't know, Celebrian was Elrodn's wife and Arwen's mother. When travelling between Lorien and rivendell across the mountains, her party was attacked and she was captured by orcs. She was rescued by Elrond's two sons, but having been tormented by the orcs was never the same again, and went to the grey havens and across the sea soon after. that's also why Elrond's two sons are dedicated orc hunters!

[@sagestrings869]

LOL That would be LOGICAL, AND WE CANT HAVE THIS IN OUT PC SHIT FUCKERY

[@johnnydollar579]

I don't like what that implies that the orcs did to her. 😥

[@darktenor4967]

@@johnnydollar579 If you're thinking anything sexual, well Tolkien doesn't go into details. I suspect though that wasn't the case simply because of how tolkien orcs work and how racial attraction in Tolkien works. Inter racial attractions literally don't happen but once in several centuries, plus there is a strong implication that the orcs are created life forms; heck we never see or hear mention of female orcs, and the scene in Peter Jackson's film where we see Saruman's experimental new Uruks being born from cocoons might well be a true representation of Orc birth, especially because throughout Tolkien's history, we only ever see the orcs directly employed as weapons of war, multiplying as they're needed. On the other hand, the one thing we do know is that orcs really! get off on torture! In one speech in the book, the two orcs that capture Frodo talk about "stripping the prisoner", and ask whether this includes "teeth, nails, hair", etc. There are even implications that Orcs eat humans, and likely elves as well. So, while I doubt any sexual crimes were perpetrated against Elrond's wife, she likely went through plenty of equally horrible experiences it's best not to think about before she was rescued.

[@johnnydollar579]

@@darktenor4967 That is a bit of a relief but there is stuff in the lore like Morgoths intentions towards luthien that imply he is intending to do such things to her without necessarily being attracted to her. It's a bit of a misconception that attraction to the person is required to get off on the act of assaulting a person but they really just get off on the emotional damage that it does to a person.

[@rickrogan2355]

@@darktenor4967 I believe (in the Silmarillion) the first orcs were made of elves, after Morgoth corrupted them. It fits with Tolkeins theme of "Evil can NOT create, only corrupt and destroy"

[@wukanimation]

Holy shit, you made me WANT to see Galadriel's story with your setup with her daughter. That is just so damn simple, but EFFECTIVE.

[@1dcondave]

The problem I see with Galadriel's character is the big question: How do we see her become the wise, clairvoyant, indomitable Faerie queen, an "elf witch of terrible power"? I don't see Xena Warrior Elf Princess in any way becoming the insightful adamant Power we see in the books and movies. The Way of the Sword and the Way of the Wise are very seldom the same path; they require different strengths. I think an exploring of how a young elf princess becoming a mighty queen of magic would certainly involve a trauma that straps her of innocence and naivete. The books list several: her dispute with Feanor, the murder of the Two Trees, the theft of the Silmarils, the Kinslaying at Aqualondè, the Doom of the Noldor, the deadly crossing of the Helcaraxe, the War with Morgoth... Any or all of those could be explored as events that steel her spine and shape her character. Then comes the Mentor who will start her on the road to Power. Who would such a mentor be? Are they honest or manipulative? What lessons does she learn? How does she overcome her trauma and gain compassion, while still remaining true to her stated mission? That would be a story worth seeing...

[@Ylyrra]

This was my biggest dislike of what they did to her character. They took a strong female character who had the respect of her peers, who HAD peers, who was the dominant partner in a relationship, who everyone knew was one of the wisest people in the land, a character who people feared as fae and terrifying even to those who knew her wisdom. Someone who Gandalf considered an equal. And they turned her into a generic stroppy maverick warrior captain who no-one respects or listens to, who has no emotional awareness of others, whose only approach to anything is arrogant brute-force direct frontal assault no matter how stupid, because apparently writing strong women just means giving them a sword and having them be unappreciated by everyone around them. Galadriel wasn't a strong female character because she was a plucky warrior maiden who fought through everyone's disbelief in her, she was a strong female character because she was a ruler who commanded fear and respect through her strength of mind and personality. She wasn't "Arnie with boobs", she was Elizabeth I ruling her realm against all comers to the point where no-one could gainsay her. She ruled Eregion before it was given to Celebrimbor. She was one of the two elfs who suspected and mistrusted Sauron when he was in disguise.

[@BiggieTrismegistus]

​@@Ylyrra Far too many female characters these days behave in a way that would get called "toxic masculinity" were they men. They try to give the characters the excuse that everyone doubts them because of sexism, and that's why they're the way they are. This doesn't work because if we never see her do anything but be a "strong woman" we start to wonder if people don't like her just because she's an asshole.

[@nighttrain1236]

That's some good ideas. Perhaps the show should have shown her growing out of the 'way of the sword' and becoming wise instead? What failure, what trauma could have precipitated that character growth? Wisdom is surely earned and nothing good comes easy.

[@klumpersuper]

I mean, she can be morphed into that character....why do you get so worked up about a character that obviously is ment to have a character arc? What is the opposite of respect? Disrespect. What do you think her character is going to accomplish at the end of the story? Most likely respect. And also bonus question: If you somehow know that Galadriel is going to end up as more or less the same person we see inn the Lotr, wouldnt her arc in this show feel satisfying in the end, if that is her story arc@@Ylyrra

[@Rauruatreides]

Another problem with Galadriel was that she wasn't someone that was entertaining or inspiring to see on screen. They made her Feanor (Celibrimbor's legendary grandfather who was both cool and intelligent while also being clearly shown as arrogant and unwise, who died because he was too eager to try and straight up murder Morgoth) without any of the charisma and no clearly shown flaws.

[@tompatompsson]

"was both cool and intelligent" So they didn't make her Feanor at all lol

[@unkreativeslauri5901]

I would rather say, that Fëanor was a great craftsman (in fact he is described as "the mightiest in all parts of body and mind [... ] of all the children of Illúvatar"), who was way too proud for his own good His Half-brother Fingolfin is the one I would describe as cool (he later has a duel with Morgoth, obviously he gets himself killed, but not without crippling the most powerful being in arda) and his other half-brother Finarfin is the one who shows the most intelligence (or maybe rather wisdom) after the theft of the Silmarils and the murder of Finwe, with deciding to stay in valinor (=Paradise) and ruling the the rest of the noldor

[@hewhoeatssoupinthedark609]

I asked my parents out of sheer curiosity what they thought of the Rings of Power and they said and I quote "It looked interesting but we kept falling asleep during it." It looks like everyone had that same experience whether they were bored to sleep or not lol

[@primeirrational]

Weirdly enough I know a pair who absolutely loved the show. I have really tried to understand why, but the show felt like watching paint dry…

[@primeirrational]

@Elizabeth Bennett maybe that’s the best way to watch it. Or not, I don’t think I would enjoy it even if it was ten times as fast…

[@wowandrss]

*Everyone*. Looks like i'm not a part of humans/society. I was on the edge most of the time. I love the franchise and to finally get more content in Tolkiens world is a blessing.

[@primeirrational]

@@wowandrss well, if you want more content in Tolkien’s world you can start reading all of the books there is. Regardless if you hate or love Rings of Power, it is not Tolkien’s world. That’s also true for the movies.

[@lou-pf6sj]

@@wowandrss But is it really Tolkien's world with how completely the writers of ROP modified it?

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

What they did to Galadriel is the most unforgivable thing here. She's probably my favorite character from the extended lore. It's a genuine shame that Tolkien never finished fleshing out her full story because what little we got was so great. What we have in Galadriel is a story of a woman who left the perfect, harmonious, and undying realm of the gods to go back to a place of suffering and death because she wanted to be queen of her own domain - something she could never do in Valanor because the gods ruled everything there. She then watches her own family descend into madness and ultimately be destroy chasing after an artifact that they didn't need (Eru had already created the sun and moon to replace the light trees the Silmarils were made from), even getting betrayed by her Uncle in the most petty way because of this madness. She got dragged into a war she wanted nothing to do with and had to expend so much of her self to protect her domain. And in the end, when she had given up hope of ever getting what she wants, the ring of power falls in her lap - freely offered to her by Frodo - and she finally has the tool she needs to rule the world like she always wanted. It's the ultimate temptation, the hardest test of personal integrity she has ever faced. And she passes, because she learned all the right lessons from watching her family destroy itself during the Silmarillion: that getting what you want isn't worth if you give up who you are to get it. That is a fantastically compelling story and Galadriel also has an amazing set of powers that could be so much fun to explore - to sum it up quickly, her ability to perceive and communicate at great distances makes her able to command wars like she's literally playing an RTS. Think of the amazing battle set pieces you could get from those powers. Think of the sense of awe that can inspire, to see someone who can always have her people at exactly the right place they need to be to win with the minimum amount of risk to her people, and yet the greatest risks he has to face is the failings of her own family, who keep trying to drag her into their fight, leaving the real conflict not being whether or not she can win, but the question of does she respect her family as they descend into madness, or does she give up on them and do what it takes to protect her people? All that's set up in Tolkien's notes, but because it's only in bite size chunks, there's room for a creative storyteller to still have a lot of fun creating satisfying story beats to connect the dots and fill in the gaps. And these chucklefucks threw all that out because they wanted Galadriel to wield a sword, because the only way to be a Strong Independent Woman (TM), is to do things that are considered traditionally masculine. In trying to turn Galadriel into a Girl Boss, they ended up making her less of a Boss than she was in the actual lore. And as Stanly Kubrick demonstrated time and again, if you intend to deviate from the source material, you had better do something REALLY good. Otherwise, the fans who made the adaptation a potentially profitable venture will *crucify* you.

[@IluvinortheIneffable]

I dont think it matters so much that her motivation has changed from desire to rule to revenge. It can still amount to the same end. Elrond serves as both leader and warrior. I don't think it is so absurd that Galadriel could play both parts as well. Once Sauron is defeated, there will be a thousand years of peace for Galadriel to grow into the Queen she eventually will be. Season 2 could really save a lot of the weaknesses of Season 1, depending on what direction they take the story.

[@valueofnothing2487]

It could have been a great story. It's full of irony and tragedy and action. And they just dumped it all for some absurd romance between Sauron and Galadriel? They should sue these people.

[@gamechip06]

That's a lot of words

[@wirilome]

oh man, thank you for summing up EXACTLY why i love galadriel so much, and why the moment frodo tries to give her the ring and she refuses means so much for her character

[@8rynjar]

" to sum it up quickly, her ability to perceive and communicate at great distances makes her able to command wars like she's literally playing an RTS" wtf you talking about.

[@irondennis1]

2 best comments that perfectly describe the series so far: "it's like an unskippable cutscene in-game" and "it's like sitting through professor's boring long speech, designed to make you fall asleep"

[@One.Zero.One101]

The two biggest rookie mistakes in this show are: 1. Characters making stupid decisions for the sake of the plot. Reminds me of Prometheus where the "scientists" have an IQ of zero. 2. Obsession with the mystery box. Not every story needs it. In the first act of Lord of the Rings, we already know what the One Ring is and who made it and why, and that Frodo intends to destroy it and where he intends to destroy it and how he intends to destroy it, these info weren't artificially held back for the BIG REVEAL. In the first act of Back to the Future, we already know what the time machine is (DeLorean) and who made it (Doc Brown) and what makes it work (flux capacitor) and when he came up with it (1955).

[@LadyDoomsinger]

Comparing it to an unskippable cutscene is unfair - at least most cutscenes are interesting on the first watch - and cutscenes are generally brief enough that they're over by the time you get a cup of coffee or go to the bathroom, if you aren't interested.

[@myrmyrten5994]

Greatly enjoyed watching such a well-written, succinct, very-accurate essay about a show I never intend to watch

[@VeronikaSch666]

Actually, in the Silmarillion, Finrod (Galadriels brother) dies by the hand of Sauron, specifically his werewolves. Finrod died defending Beren. So, this would have given Galadriel a reason to hate Sauron.

[@adamb8317]

And she does indeed despise Sauron but not necessarily out of pure revenge, but out of love for the good things of the world.

[@ramondiamond6152]

For some reason it peeves me so much that the male elves don't have their long elvish hair. Not every single tolkien elf has to follow that style, but it's one of their most iconic features!

[@magiv4205]

The dumbest part about Galadriel's lack of tangible motivation to kill Sauron is that in the show, they merged him, Angrod and Aegnor into a single person and had him die in a nondescript battle that was something between the Bragollach and Nirnaeth, with Sauron having nothing to do with it. In the Silmarillion, on the other hand, FINROD _WAS_ KILLED ON THE DIRECT COMMAND OF SAURON! So IF (and that's a big if) they absolutely have to have her main motivation be the fact that her brother was killed hundreds of years ago - Why the FUCK would they change this story to be so much less personally motivated when they had a perfectly good motivation right there!?

[@hititwithit]

Probably because they didn't have the rights to the Silmarillion...

[@Arphemius]

They didn't state he was killed in that battle. He just fought in it and then later was killed by Sauron (in a non-specified way because they don't have the rights).

[@magiv4205]

@@hititwithit If they don't have the rights to tell the actual, compelling story, then they need to give her a different motivation than "my brother died 1500 years ago and I'm still really mad about it".

[@hititwithit]

@@magiv4205 Oh absolutely. But it is why they didn't tell the story as told in the Silmarillion.

[@sailiealquadacil1284]

Not quite. The wolf was supposed to eat Beren first, but Finrod threw himself in between and fought the wolf to his death. Sauron would have probably killed him eventually, but the way it happened was explicitly against Sauron's orders, who wanted to keep Finrond alive until the end.

[@capybaragames347]

The problem is that Galadriel is a very likeable character in the Lord of the Rings books and movies. She comes across as someone who can see all about the world and understands it. She is so powerful that she was able to withstand the power of the ring. It is very compelling to see Galadriel overcome the evil that is taking root in her and links brilliantly back to the Lord of the Rings where she has gotten to the point where not even the One Ring could corrupt her. I wish they did that here. It would make sense and show how she develops between the rings of power and the Lord of the Rings

[@arktic3140]

It's always important to ask 'why' after you read a character's actions in a script, as if you don't, you end up in this dumpster fire for example with mundane characters.

[@artemgushin5228]

The main reason is that the show was made by people who hate Tolkien and think they can do better. If you google the creators, you'll find that they've done almost nothing in their career, but they've already been entrusted with a lot of money. By the way, this is not the first time, many other expensive adaptations do people who hate them (openly or according to memories of their colleagues) or who have not done anything before (literally). Like on purpose, apparently corporations hate profits, so they choose such people to run their shows.

[@luckyowl10]

If a writer thinks he can do better than Tolkien at writing fantasy, he should see a doctor because something isn't well in his head. The story is so good, you just need to transform it into a show at it will be amazing. If a writer wants to alter a classic story to make it "better" he should write his original story with no base material, and he will see if he's as good as he thinks or just a buffoon. Unfortunately, most of the shows that adapted classic stories in the last years have buffoons in charge of them.

[@Theleaver5088]

It amazes me that people think they can do better than the father of fantasy ( yep, that’s literally what people called Tolkien ). Peter Jackson was better at adapting this because he didn’t decided to alter than much, just when he really needs to to fit the film format. If I’m not mistaken, he said that he doesn’t want to inject any messaging of his own, just that he wants to tell a Tolkien story.

[@primeirrational]

@@Theleaver5088 I remember that too, something about it being important to respect the original creator when adapting something.

[@cympimpin20]

It isn't just that they think they can do better, it's that they actively hate Tolkien because of who he was and what he represented. The creators of Rings of Power are themselves Orcs. These are people who enjoy taking from you. They know who Tolkien was and what he represented through his stories. A white, western, Christian, married male with children and a family who believed in freedom and modesty and decency and all the rest. All ideas and values he poured into his writing. Orcs trample on such things and enjoy seeing what is good and pure destroyed and stained. The creators of Rings of Power, as radical Leftists, are such Orcs. The thing animating them isn't as desire to make new art and entertain people, thinking they are good at it when they are not. They know they're not and don't care. What they really want is to see the things that traditional western Christian civilization held up as good torn down and thrown into the mud out of spite. They made Rings of Power terrible and anti-Tolkien on purpose because they enjoy seeing goodness ruined.

[@luckyowl10]

@@cympimpin20 that makes them look even more stupid than before, being incapable to adapt a good work is something, adapting it wrong for political beliefs is shocking. I don't read a book because the author believed X or Y, I read a book because I like the story from the book.

[@Kaspar502]

The even worse sin was ignoring that canonically Celebrimbors family murdered most of Elronds family for some shiny rocks

[@FandomaniaMV]

I agree that they could've done a PTSD story. Its like there's some sort of darkness deep inside Galadriel. In which Sauron will probably try to exploit. And by the end there can be a redemption arc where she'll fully repel the darkness crawling inside her heart and fight darkness with light

[@Ylyrra]

Or better still, that she doesn't fully repel, but continues to need to guard against, hence her reaction to being offered the One Ring in the movies. She learns to know the darkness inside herself and that she can only contain it through vigilence, not extinguish it.

[@nghiadao96]

I just realized that, at 20:20, the story where the character actually joins the dark side is Zuko at the end of season 2 of Avatar: The Last Airbender. And it was like the best redemption arc I have ever experienced after that.

[@kaliquis01010]

Man, I find it funny that your side story with Elrond was so much more entertaining then whatever the Amazon was trying to create xd

[@rogersmith9535]

U cannot use diversity and inclusiveness as excuses for lazy writing. That's what irritates me the most.

[@gregwessendorf]

Or that it might undercut good diverse stories because audiences begin to equate the two.

[@josephschepella5358]

@@gregwessendorf Love this point

[@BoolyK]

House of the Dragon had inclusivity that wasn't rammed down your through by woke corporate writers. Having the humility of realizing parts of the world and ideas are underrepresented and having the talent and class to correct it subtly.

[@mathishopper5608]

Agree.

[@victormustin2547]

Woke or not woke is not the issue. the issue is bad writers. HOTD had woke good writers, Rings of power had woke bad writers. some other shows have non woke good writers, some have non woke bad writers. if you hate wokeism alright good for you but that’s off topic

[@moseszero3281]

Did you call Galadriel a 'borderline Mary Sue'? Galadriel is a sentient ball of narcissism/plot contrivance so dense she bends reality itself. She is PEAK Mary Sue. No one bows in Numinore purely because she does not want to bow. She yeets herself to 'certain death' in the ocean and gets rescued by her love interest/the dark lord. She bullies a queen into invading a far off land then runs away with no negative personal repercussions when the whole campaign is an abject failure that blinds the queen. She bullies the dark lord into taking more power then gaslights him and the audience when everything goes wrong. Also she took a pyroclastic money shot to the face, the show would have been WAY better if it ended there.

[@Halfort57]

Speaking of, I would love to see the Spinoff telling all the adventures she had while inside that pyroclastic cloud because the shift for her was MASSIVE

[@AliRadicali]

While I agree that characters like Galadriel and She-Hulk are Mary Sues, they are a different breed than the classical archetype, which is a saccharine goodie two-shoes whose worst flaw is caring TOO MUCH. These Nu-Sues are written like villains or anti-heroes, but the writers are such unselfaware narcissists themselves that all the other characters and the narrative itself treat them like heroes. They're objectively flawed characters, but because they're the self-inserts of equally flawed writers, they still manage to be mary sues in the narrative.

[@midgematic8659]

@@AliRadicali Perfectly well said. It’s the classic Shadow the Hedgehog Sue; “anti-heros” that are just villains but the whole story revolves around them like they’re the protagonist. If they were a side-character they’d be seen as the most annoying and narcissistic person that the hero wants nothing to do with. But because they’re the main character they’re seen as edgy and bad-ass. Give this woman a gun and she’d shoot everyone, and they’d thank her for it.

[@StimParavane]

I just cannot understand the kind of mind that comes up with characters like this. Truly feminists must have such an inflated sense of their own self. Astonishing.

[@r3dr4te963]

@@StimParavane Narcists with overinflated ego don't know how terrible their knowledge and assumption in reality. They usually stuck in their own echo chamber, where friends and families further encourage their belief. It's like cult practice, everybody who think different are enemies. Seriously, I know too many people like this, feminist is just one small part of it

[@olivertan8994]

20:24 maybe not an EXACT example but in the Avatar: The Last Airbender S2 finale, Azula makes the "join me" speech to Zuko, offering to restore his honor so he can return as the Fire Nation Prince. It's quite perfectly set up, too. S1 emphasized how much Zuko wanted to restore his honor. S2 gave Zuko him perspective from life outside, both in terms of how the Fire Nation has affected the world and how he could be happy in a simple life making tea and not being a prince. And just before Azula makes her pitch, Katara, a victim of the Fire Nation who has previously vehemently hated Zuko and the Fire Nation until this point, offers him forgiveness and redemption. Shortly after, when he's confronted with the choice between these 2 world, it's not only tense because his decision is a HUGE momentum swing in the Azula's favor towards hunting Aang, who is lying and will bring anything but happiness for him, but also because it's entirely possible that Zuko would choose either side. The fate of the world, essentially, is left in the hands of a conflicted teenager who has near equal motivation to join either side. So, when he bursts into the fight to aid Azula with an angry cry with a hint of internal conflict, it's just so gut wrenching, but so fitting for the story. The heartbreak from S2 does make his redemption in S3 more rewarding, but the juxtaposition between his life with Iroh, living simply and serving others, and his life in the Fire Nation makes his choice to help the Gaang grounded in such a strong motivation that you just can't help but jump and cheer when Zuko poetically deflects his father's unbridled power with a technique he learned from Iroh (a technique based on seeing the perspectives of others, no less). Fuckin genius, really.

[@benquadrinaros8692]

I still haven’t seen rings of power. But I will gladly watch a 40 minute closer look video breaking it down. I’m literally now one video away from completing the closer look marathon.

[@Jaggedice23]

Your "fixing Galadriel" section did in 2 minutes, what the Rings of Power couldn't. I want to know more about what happens to your version.

[@henryward5457]

I love how The Closer Look gets so excited about his rewrites.

[@bastooo3]

thats because he knows what storytelling is, unlike 90% of hipster hollywood

[@okdo5144]

I realy fell for his fixed story for elrond. Would be realy sonmuch more engaging...

[@MrLeeziebee]

"Who needs character when you have a BUILT IN FAN BASE!!!???" - these guys and Kathleen Kennedy

[@hbm7350]

I watched a show on Netflix called arcane, the show is a masterpiece for so many reasons that I can go on forever (no exaggeration) about its depth and complexity, but it is a show that I don’t hate any of the characters not even the villains because everyone is empathetic in their own way, but the main character Vi is probably my favorite character, she’s like the main character in the rings of power, but is a good leader, tough without being ridiculous, flawed without being a damsel, and her goals are so well set up that every time she’s across an obstacle i so desperately want her to succeed because everyone else is also a great part of the show where you know why they are doing what they are doing even if it’s not 100% good or 100% bad, if you haven’t seen arcane, WATCH IT NOW!!

[@scorpionlord9175]

finally someone besides me talks about the perfection that is Arcane. there is only one other show I give that title to and that's Avatar the Last Airbdender(not legend of korra, that show is garbage). I'm always saying how Arcane is perfection and needs to be held as the gold standard for TV shows. its funny, RoP, wheel of time, halo, ect, fans all hate that show, like really really hate it. my theory is that they look at Arcane, see its actually good and extremely well written and they resent it because of that, cause if they agree how good that show is with its writing, they have to take a good long look at these other shows. and since they don't want to do that, they pretend Arcane is bad when it isn't.

[@7slavok]

Thank you! I keep on thinking that Arcane did everything RoP tried to do, only Arcane succeeded. There are so many superficial similarities, it highlights the difference between a job well done and ... Rings of Power. 1. They are both prequel series. The main draw of RoP was seeing the characters becoming their LotR counterparts and seeing major artifacts like the rings come into being. The main draw of Arcane was seeing the characters becoming their League counterparts and seeing how they get their signature weapons. They also changed things for the prequels. I was never interested in League lore before Arcane, but I don't remember Jinx and Vi being sisters, and Jayce didn't canonically invent hextech, he just perfected it. The number of lore violations RoP committed have filled up several hours of review videos. 2. They both have strong female protagonists. Galadrial and Vi are both quick to violence and filled with anger. 3. All the characters, heroes and villains alike, were nuanced in Arcane. They tried to make them nuanced in Rings of Power, but for the most part they would tell you good things and show you bad things about the heroes and do the reverse for the villains. So why would one work and the other not? Honestly, I would like to see a video essay on this topic (cough, cough, hint, hint, Closer Look or anyone else who does video essays on KZbin), but here goes. The third point I already mostly answered, though I should also add that nuanced characters don't fit a Tolkien story very well. Lord of the Rings had a very black and white morality, and by abandoning that, Rings of Power failed as an adaptation of his work. For the second point, two things. One, Powder was a great morality pet for Vi. Because she loved Powder, many of Vi's actions were motivated by love instead of hate, and when she acts out of anger, we feel that anger is justified. Galadriel is never shown to love anyone besides possibly her brother, and since he was hardly in the show, his death and her driving motivation don't carry much weight. Two, Vi's violent nature led to her greatest regret in the show. She may spend the rest of her life thinking about what would have happened if she hadn't lost her temper with Powder at the end of the third episode. Galadriel, on the other hand, causes a lot of trouble with her hatred and impulsiveness, and even has other characters call her out on it, but she never seems to admit to herself that she did anything wrong. At one point she lectures a little boy about how vengeance is wrong, but because she never expressed remorse for her own actions, that comes across as hypocrisy instead of character growth. The first point is the hardest to tackle, which is why I saved it for last. Well, the artifacts part is easy. In Arcane, you get to see the weapons actually be used. Vi punches people, Jinx blows stuff up, it's all good fun because there's *payoff.* In RoP, they spend much of the first season building up to the rings, and at the end they ... put them on. And that's it. The characters, though, that's something Arcane did spectacularly. Since they're prequel series, you know how they'll end up. Galadriel will be the wise, powerful queen of Lothlorien, Elrond will become the wise, grumpy king of Rivendell, Vi will become an enforcer, and Jinx will become a happy go lucky insane terrorist. In both cases, they start out as polar opposites to the people they will become, which gives them plenty of room to grow. But in Arcane, we see them grow. We see Vi losing her hatred of enforcers as she becomes friends with Caitlyn, and we see Jinx go more and more insane. Are they all the way there? No, but they're definitely pointed in the right direction. Galadriel, on the other hand, goes from an arrogant, impulsive, condescending person to an arrogant, impulsive, condescending person with a magic ring.

[@ForbiddenFollyFollower]

Overwatch desensitized me to that kind of cinematic.

[@Yattayatta]

@@7slavok You are spot on I think what Arcane (and other IPs) prove is that it's not about having a female lead or people of different skin color, it's about the poor writing that has come to be expected of shows that make these 2 things their main selling point. One thing I'd like to add is that while arcane might not follow the original source material, it respects it's own world building, there are very few contradictions. Given the things in Piltover, it works exactly like I'd expect it to. There are very few obvious "Well, if they have this technology, why don't they use it to solve that problem?" (Think Holdo maneuver) This all makes the world feel genuine. If we compare RoP to another show, house of the dragon, people aired similar concerns, but the house of the dragon team made the world internally work, you never feel anyone is out of place. One thing Arcane and the original LoTR does extremely well is costume and character design, you know straight away if you are looking at someone from the upper or the lower area of the city in Arcane, or if you are looking at an emissary. Same with the original LoTR, just from the silhouette you know if you are looking at a human, an elf a dwarf or an orc. aesthetic

[@Lunrbatzz]

@@ForbiddenFollyFollower if you think arcane is anything like overwatch’s 7 minute long cinematics you are dead wrong

[@emilyh.9137]

I’m barely 3 minutes into your video and you have hit every nail on the head. I distinctly remember saying “I just don’t care about any of these people, I can barely remember some of their names let alone latch onto any of these characters”. I can’t remember another show or movie experience that had me verbally saying to those around me “I just don’t care”.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Elrond’s passion for his craft could also be precisely the reason why he neglected his friend. That could’ve also been a great opportunity to tie into the rest of the story for a good inner conflict. Like the part where he manipulates his friend for mythril. He could easily feel torn about having to tell them the truth after spending some time together.

[@pbh9195]

Bronwin is also egregious in that she goes from village healer to leader of the Southlands, or what's left of it, with absolutely no buildup

[@sailiealquadacil1284]

Also, her outfit is a classic case of "spot the main character" if ever I've seen one.

[@Violaphobia]

The Sarah Connor comparison is actually great because she has a change of heart when she goes to murder Miles Dyson in cold blood to save her son, but his child gets between them. She realizes that she is like the terminator to them, murdering the innocent to protect the future that she wants Galadriel has a change of heart because she wrongly assumed fault for the worlds least deadly volcanic eruption when she shouldn’t even know how to take the blame for it.

[@sebdhaese]

The problem with Rings of Power lies much deeper than character development. The actual problem is that too many people on the project don't care or don't understand: Tolkien, story writing, world building, life in general, fantasy stories, the list goes on. Most of those people are just there for a paycheck. Other than names of characters and places, Rings of Power has nothing to do with Tolkien. If you make an adaptation of a work, but in the adaptation you completely alter the characters, their story arcs, and the main theme of the original work, you kind of messed up.

[@cympimpin20]

It's not that they don't understand Tolkien or don't care to. It's that they *do* understand Tolkien and everything he believed and the values he wrote into his stories....and they absolutely detest and loath all of it. They know Tolkien very well, and they hate him and what he stood. This show isn't a mistake of incompetence. It's a successful attack, tearing down something that was good and replacing is something terrible on purpose.

[@sebdhaese]

@@cympimpin20 That would be a bit of a stretch wouldn't it, getting all those Tolkien haters together, who hate Tolkien so much that they want to ruin his work, while at the same time ruining their own carreers. Getting so many a-holes together would be quite the challenge.

[@spaghetto9836]

@@cympimpin20 That's... not realistic. I dislike when people think their worldview is so obviously true that everyone else just purposefully goes against it, instead of... having their own set of truths & beliefs? It's self-centered. Ex.: (A Christian) "Those atheists KNOW of God's truth, they just actively go against it bc they *love the darkness!"* (A white nationalist to a brown person) "*a bunch of enigmatic terms* You know EXACTLY what I'm talking about, you know what you're doing!" No sir, idk wtf you mean. Stop assuming that everyone's in your head. Rest assured, no one's actively going after Tolkien as a target. They're just bad storytellers who need revenue.

[@filipvadas7602]

Worse. If other projects like the Netflix's Witcher are anything to go by , many of the people working on this show just straight up LOATHE the world and characters Tolkien created as they see them as just a barrier to their own success

[@robertlewis6915]

The character development was certainly a big problem. Unfortunately for the show, its thematic revolt from Tolkien, its plot coherence, its worldbuilding, all these were at least equally bad.

[@82dorrin]

Peter Jackson's films took liberties with the lore and characters, too. The difference is that Jackson actually made his characters interesting. They were well-written and actually grew. We _cared_ about them. Frodo changed over the course of three movies. I would say he had a negative character arc in some ways. Went from an optimistic, happy Hobbit to someone who fell under the influence of the Ring. Boromir was terrifically handled. A tragic character who genuinely just wanted to defend his people and ended up succumbing to the Ring's evil influence. But he redeemed himself by fighting and dying heroically. Gandalf freaking _died_ and was resurrected. I could not bring myself to care about Galadriel in Rings of Power, no matter how I tried. The freaking Dark Lord Sauron was much more well-written, and even he wasn't a great character by any stretch.

[@daefaron]

Her husband and daughter could've made a great point from the get go. It's not until the very end of the season they go "Oh I think he's dead because he never came back from that war" So the first time it's even referenced she's married it's "Oh he's dead, who cares." Imagine if at the very start she's not hunting Sauron in such a focused manner not because her brother's death, but because her Husband is missing. She's desperate and focused on finding ANYTHING that could give her peace about what's happened to her husband. Is he dead, is he captured? Did he get hurt and just never was able to come home and is hiding somewhere trying to heal and avoid the orcs? Elrond is a great example of how you could explore the elven longevity and unchanging nature. They see no problem is simply not talking to somebody for 20 to 50 years because "They'll be there in 200 years, a thousand years, it's not rush." Simply not quite understanding that for a Dwarf, a human, or others, 20 years is a long time, with a lot happening.

[@kurtisknechtel3728]

Elrond's section is what happens when you have writers who have never gone through adversity or overcome hardships in order to improve in their own lives before. They don't know how to write that because they've never lived it themselves. No experiences to pull from their own lives

[@jessip8654]

I firmly believe that the decline in good Hollywood writing is in large part because of all the untalented nepotism babies taking up the reins from their vastly more talented parents. Good writing skills aren't genetic. You have to find the talent from outside your family.

[@KajtekBeary]

@@jessip8654 actually, they are partially :P have you ever heard about epigenetics? But that’s just a side note, I agree, partially

[@jessip8654]

@@KajtekBeary Perhaps, but as Kurtis points out these people have no life experiences outside their fancy little glass box, so their, uh, "genes" never learned how to write good.

[@asdf51501]

@@jessip8654 That and hiring people based on checkboxes and on their activism. I wouldn't even call them "writers" given they have no talent whatsoever for the job.

[@StimParavane]

This is a great point.

[@No-Kung-Fu]

This dude's voice is what I would imagine an evil gnome would sound like.

[@shizukagozen777]

WTF ??? 😂🤣

[@yuka3215]

🤣🤣🤣

[@JayFulcanelli--111]

An evil gnome played by drunk Rowan Atkinson lol

[@terenarosa4790]

It's a bit irritating in large doses like this.

[@donk3ypunchzero]

He's the voice of Stych 3 confirmed.

[@Prototype-357]

You mentioned Galadriel's daughter, I think her name is Celem...something, it begins the same way as her dad's so I'm never sure XD But anyway, an comment I saw in another channel mentioned that the show would be better if Galadriel's daughter was the protagonist, because lots of people have trouble believing the Galadriel from the books and PJ movies would act like this just a couple of thousand years prior. I say "a couple thousands" because Elves live for thousands of years anyway, Galadriel is already supposed to be fairly old here, in fact I believe she's older than Elrond in the books, but the show makes her look like a teenager sticking it to the man in her interactions with the Elf king and Elrond. It's like the writers crammed the character from the books and movies into this "Warrior Girl in a Men World" frame without accounting for any of the lore or even a basic understanding of how the Lore works and thought that would be good character writing. I have zero problems believing Galadriel would know how to use a sword, she's been alive for literally thousands of years, she must have experienced and learned so much in that time, she must be proficient in every weapon that was ever crafted on Middle Earth just like the other elves probably are. The problem is that she doesn't act like a being that was alive that long, humans beings are like mayflies to elves and we change so much during out short lives that when we reach elderly age we are full of life wisdom. This isn't a problem only for Galadriel either, none of the elves feel like beings who have lived much more than any human has but anyway, I'm getting off topic. If they wanted a short tempered young elf that wants to prove herself to her peers I'm 100% sure they could have used Galadriel's daughter in that role and the fans would have been much more receptive, specially if Galadriel was also in the show to act as a character foil. If I'm not mistaken there's almost nothing about Galadriel's daughter in the official lore anyway, we know who she is but we don't really know what she did for most time, it would have been fine to have her scour middle earth looking for Sauron. I would also have liked if they could tone down the violent posturing a bit but it would have been more understanding in a character that lives under Galadriel's shadow.

[@Guyon-to3tu]

Celebrian ; )

[@ozzyp97]

Galadriel being proud and a bit brash isn't even out of character, that's kinda the arc Tolkien outlined for her, culminating in her rejecting the One Ring and finally resolving to accept the pardon of the Valar and sail west. The problem as you pointed out is that she's already gone through thousands of years of hardship when the show takes place. This should be about the middle of her arc, not the beginning, and yet she keeps acting like a teenager.

[@Prototype-357]

@@ozzyp97 Yeah the scene in the movies with frodo and the ring is iconic for a reason. I admit I never touched any of the books, I can only go off what I hear people say and wikis. I heard that she did act proud in the books, she wanted to form a elf settlement in Middle Earth and rule over it right? And she was straight up tempted by the power of the Ring, I guess to achieve that goal. I guess the writers just exagerated those aspects of her character so much that people are overlooking the rest, it doesn't help that she doesn't seem to care about anyone in the show, and I know that's probably because the writers had an arc for her where she learned to care but I feel like she should at least care about her fellow elves, specially considering the characterisation she has in the books. And speaking of her Arc, personally I really hate the Revenge Story aspect of her character, revenge stories just don't fit with my idea of Tolkien heroes, this is more of a George Martin thing, I could see Boromir maybe doing something like this but Tolkien heroes don't need much incentive to fight the baddies, they do it only because it's the right thing to do. The writers obviously did this to make us empathize with her because of her loss but I think what the Closer Look suggested with her husband and daughter would have worked much better for a Tolkien hero, and still have her be tempted by power even if it's just to protect her family and fellow elves at the beggining but it starts corrupting her later on.

[@dibyoshreepaint9241]

also doesn't Celebrian (Galadriel's daughter) eventually get married to Elrond? there is potential for that relationship to develop as well

[@octoberlassie]

Her name is Celebrian. She's Arwen's mother, married to Elrond.

[@Gemarald]

I heard one person comment that when Galadriel said her Husband "died in battle" after Her telling him he was wearing not proper fitting armor, and that he never returned. He instead just left because He was tired of her constant explaining, narcissism, and general seeming lack of empathy, and honestly? That makes far more sense when you think about it. Sure armor not fitting that well can be a detriment, but... he probably just did a "Dad getting milk" manoeuvre.

[@irena4545]

He rode off with Sauron into the sunset, that's why Galadriel hates Sauron so much ;-)

[@skyscavenger7732]

I mean, with a woman like this show's Galadriel, who'd ever actually want to stick around? Unless you actually like being married to someone who hardly ever shows affection or even emotion.

[@confusedowl445]

Personally I have an issue with the elves. In the original movies all of them are these tall figures with an aura of divinity around them(The exception being background charachters). In the show they just have pointy ears. Also I just realized that you don't really see any elfs with beards in the movies and it feels wierd in the show

[@strikerwoman]

Galadriel surviving the pyroclastic flow to the face literally made me laugh out loud. I mean I was completely dumbfounded.

[@13o.o]

Weren't two of her brothers killed in a volcano eruption? That makes it even worse! She should be reminded of that and terrified. But then again, according to the show she only had Finrod as a brother right?

[@claran3616]

I think that was just smoke that Looked like a pyroclastic flow, or yeah, nothing would have been standing.

[@strikerwoman]

@@claran3616 the smoke is part of the flow. Hot ash and smoke counts.

[@strikerwoman]

@@13o.o yeah idk what they were trying to pull with this show 😭 I told my buddy about the part with the volcano and he literally said, “maybe she’s THAT strong.” I used to respect him. We are no longer friends. Jk we are, but I questioned everything for a minute.

[@Prototype-357]

@@claran3616 But that smoke burned everyone except the characters important to plot and lit at least one horse on fire. Also Galadriel just walks away with Theo without checking for more survivors, weren't there people moaning in pain right next to them?

[@mattcollins3591]

“It cost a lot to look this cheap” - Dolly Parton

[@minbari73]

"gET tHE vAcCInE" - dOLLY pARTON

[@mattcollins3591]

@@minbari73 imagine some trash talking smack about dolly

[@onetrickponysona2613]

@@minbari73 you should, you plague rat

[@susiem.2068]

@@minbari73 Please don't mock Dolly. She's one of our national treasures, and an important figure in American culture.

[@minbari73]

@@susiem.2068 fUCK DOLLY, HOW MANY DID SHE KILL WITH HER SUGGESTION?!?!

[@DimaRakesah]

I really love the friendship between Elrond and Durin. That was the shining beacon in the show. Galadriel feels like an afterthought compared to this much better relationship between two friends.

[@katarinakremberg1319]

Although I do agree with your take, I am still not conviced that fixing the characters would balance out the horrible script of the show. Sure, these two aspects are intertwined and go hand in hand, but Galadriel or Halbrand or Elrond are surrounded by other characters who must be also fixed, they make decisions that don't make any sense and they live in the world that with all alterations doesn't work. What I mean, G and E could be passable if fixed, but it wouldn't solve the problem imo

[@wingsclippedwolf]

Alternatively, a different scene to show Galadriel suffers from PTSD: Galdriel is indeed married to Celeborn and mother to a young Celebrian (as is lore!). Rumors of Sauron trigger reliving her traumatic past in a nightmare. She hears her name being called as if from a distance and drums beating amid a scene of violence. Jarringly, she wakes and the drums are her own heartbeat in her ears, her husband is restraining her against the wall calling her name. She acknowledges him, though disoriented and breathing hard. Her husband sags in relief and sinks back to the bed, grunting in pain and bleeding from a fresh wound on his head/nose bleed/bloodied lip. "Did I hurt you?" she asks in in horror. He studies her for moment. No, he replies. An obvious lie. At that moment, their young daughter appears in the bedroom doorway and almost tearful asking what is happening, and what is all the noise? Transition scene to daybreak as morning light enters the bedroom. Galadriel watches her sleeping family, her daughter curled up the nook of her husbands arm while Galadriel herself sits in a chair in the farthest corner of the room. The sunlight wakes Celeborn who asks if she slept. Galadriel doesn't reply. END SCENE

[@mistermagnificence2112]

This is both incredibly well put together and written, and so simple to add into the story

[@monikadeinbeck4760]

Tolkiens Galadriel was the fairest of elves, and one of the first. She spent so much time in the light of the two trees that her hair started to shine like them, even so that Feanor, the great elvensmith, asked for some of her hairs to put them in a gem. Then she experienced her beloved trees being spoiled and destroyed by evil, and she wanted to protect what was left of the light of Valinor in the world. And battle after battle, she was pushed back, by Morgoth and then by Sauron, until all that was left for her to protect was a small patch of land by the Anduin river. Her conflict throughout this struggle is always that she would want to have the power to protect, but that to achieve this power she would have to be like the evil she was fighting. This is never shown better than in her monologue after Frodo offers her the ring: "I will not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the morning and the night. Fair like the sun, and the sea, and the snow on the mountains. All will love me and despair" But then she accepts her fate and chooses the light she always stood for, "I will diminish, and go into the west, and remain Galadriel (the girl crowned by light)"

[@DeadDancers]

So, I haven't watched the Rings of Power. But I notice in all these scenes you show... the elves looks incredibly human. I don't know what they're missing. Grace? Some Vaseline on the camera lens? Better choreography? Less close-ups?

[@pipitameruje]

Wigs Not even kidding, just wigs Wigs of flowy long hair make you hold yourself in a certain way to keep the hair from dropping over your face. Look at the elves in the LotR movies, look at Lucius Malfoy in the HP movies. It's all about posture and movement, and the elves are supposed to hold themselves in a certain way, and move in deliberate ways. And though that can be trained and learned, wigs help a lot because you just have to do it right.

[@adde27]

Pipitameruje is right: wigs. I read somewhere that the real reason why the Elves in ROP have short hair is best exemplified in the raft scene where one of the humans lifts Galadriel's hair and goes "she's an Elf!": if they had long hair that covered their ears, we'd never be able to tell they are Elves and not Men: their clothing isn't different enough, not their looks, their accessories, their mannerism or speech. (Contrast this with Jackson's portrayal: Galadriel literally has light coming from her eyes, her skin has a glow to it and her delivery of lines is so impactful. Arwen is almost uncannily immaculate and lovely and has that same, otherwordly glow to her. Elrond and Legolas, I'd argue, have the least of this, but then they always look the part in terms of dress.)

[@TheTriforceDragon]

@@adde27 Legolas seems to embody it in a different way. It has been a while since I watched the movies, but from what I remember he never gets dirty or otherwise seems unkempt no matter what the Fellowship goes through. The most noteable obviously is when he walks on the snow that everyone else is trudging through, but it is all these small things that remind you that he is not human.

[@FatGouf]

Cant shake the feeling the brown elf looked more like an half orc than an elf, his prosthetics kinda reminds of The Rock's transformation in DooM's 2005 adaptation.

[@ASpaceOstrich]

I feel like the best version of the Elrond/Celebrimbor plot you outlined would maybe have Sauron request Elrond to act as an apprentice so you've got Elrond super happy about it, Celebrimbor resenting him, and they're stuck together with Elrond desperately trying to earn the approval of someone who doesn't want him there. Could then work that dynamic into the rings plot, with some dramatic irony of Elrond pointing out some suspicious behaviour Sauron is doing, but since Celebrimbor doesn't respect him he ignores the warnings. You could end up with some brilliant tension of Sauron and Elrond both trying to get Celebrimbors favour for completely unrelated reasons. There'd be the threat that Sauron figures out the Elrond knows. You could do an entire show just about that dynamic.

[@mallorycarpinski1160]

I like this!

[@DarthSidian]

22:35 The funny part is, James Norrington's characterization perfectly allowed for him to make a choice like this. It was also funny. Galadriel had neither of these things going for her.

[@SpookeyGael]

It's funny how people expected this to be a big culture war flashpoint that we would argue over one way or another but instead everyone more or less agreed it was just bad

[@luckyowl10]

the original books have potential to make for a brilliant show, but you need the right people to make it well

[@verindictus3639]

Well, I have met a scant few in KZbin comments who are passionate about defending RoP to the point of rage if they can't convince anyone to see RoP as genius and amazing as they do. And they are huge about the culture war.

[@Arphemius]

I think it's more that it's become a meme. The show really isn't bad, it's just that absolutely everyone desperately wanted to hate the show, because that was just the thing to do.

[@luckyowl10]

@@Arphemius A mediocre show of a masterpiece book it's quite bad in my opinion. It's like comparing Terminator 1 with Terminator: Dark Fate.

[@Arphemius]

@@luckyowl10 I suppose that's fair enough, but you compare it to the one of the greatest works of literature (and one of the greatest movie trilogies) of all time. Little chance of living up to that; taking it on its own terms, it's quite okay. By comparison, Terminator: Dark Fate is genuinely pretty bad, even in isolation.

[@g.e.o.r.g.e...]

Give her some allies from the earlier war, and introduce them in brief flashbacks before they fell in battle. People from around court remind her of her friends, triggering these flashbacks... but the contemporaries are all oblivious to what horrors her squad faced. Before she heads out you see her take an anxious detour, and that's where you're introduced to the twist that one of her pals is still alive and himself turned down a return to Valenor... because (by the show's logic) that would mean an eternity of living as a tragic amputee.

[@robertlewis6915]

Every single time I see Galadriel's face, I have to remind myself that this is a human who hasn't been photoshopped. I don't know why, but it doesn't endear this to me. Also, Galadriel in this show should look.... precisely like she does in LotR movies. She's an elf; she reached full maturity literally millennia ago.

[@circedelune]

Not to mention, this woman looks older than CB looked in LOTR. How is it possible that this middle-aged woman aged into a 30-something looking one? And after adulthood she grew nearly a foot taller? I get that they wouldn’t have been able to get anyone that looked exactly like CB, but couldn’t they have at least gotten someone attractive, who looks slightly younger or even the same age, and who could actually act? Then again, none of those people probably wanted anything to do with making this hot garbage.

[@bombidil3]

Living for 1000s of years also gives elves opportunity to develop every flaw in existence, alongside other baggage such as trauma like you mentioned. I read elsewhere that it's often the writers' pride. Many believe they end up on these projects because they are just so clever, so perceptive, and so talented that they know better what makes a good production than anyone else. This includes the original creator of the source material, the other commercially successful franchises around, and often even the fans themselves. This also often leads to Mary/Gary Sue characters since having a character who's great at everything and better than everyone else doesn't seem that unbelievable to them; it's how they see themselves.

[@seanbyrne5313]

That's a good point, just writing about a very old person who is in good health is a tremendous opportunity for a character study. Also "Mary Sue" applies to any gender. It is a specific character reference in star trek fan fiction.

[@ThreadBareHope1234]

Something every modern writer forgets is that a character doesn't need to be lonely and stoic to be strong. Making Galadriel leave to (maybe) keep the war from reaching her home is a noble and loving motivation to start fighting again. 13:00 This is a wonderful way to establish Galadriel as traditionally feminine and the same Galadriel from the books, but also with the warrior element.

[@ikenosis8160]

Protagonist sets out to defeat hidden enemy. Protagonist meets hidden enemy on boat in first episode. Nearly all the Audience knows that the enemy isn't hidden the entire time. Audience is waiting for Protagonist to realize what they knew from the beginning. Awful writing.

[@tylerskrovemusic]

The problem is, if done right, it would make a great story as the character slowly begins to realize it, but they just dropped the ball and then popped it lol

[@BradsGonnaPlay]

Yeah you gotta hand it to them; not a lot of stories make the plot have to sprint to catch up to the audience for an entire season.

[@ikenosis8160]

@@tylerskrovemusic Agreed, but in our version you'd need Tolkien level writers.

[@echostik]

@@tylerskrovemusic yep there are many stories where audience know what would happen but still would be invested.

[@caitlinsnowfrost8244]

Your alternative arc for Galadriel is so compelling! She was my favorite character in the original books and Peter Jackson films and tapping into her maternal side feels like a very natural course of action. Better still, I'm an absolute sucker for stories about mothers who are willing to go through hell and back for the sake of their children, and now I'm wishing we could have had this version of the series.

[@Yattayatta]

I think Durin is the best part about the show, I really enjoy Durin and Disa interacting as well. The guy playing Durin does such an amazing job, and it also helps that the costume design for the dwarves are spot on, while the elves don't look very elven.

[@Yattayatta]

I think something that could have worked for Galadriel is the old trick of only having her mind somewhat at peace while she is in the heat of battle. It would fit her RoP character arc and it has been done in sympathetic ways before. Later after the killing is over it then comes back to haunt her even stronger, like someone substance dependent. Working this in with what you said about threatening Elrond after he does a playful gesture, there could be hints that her bloodlust is getting so out of hand that one day she might just snap and do the unthinkable. It would also fit the scene you brought up where she says she just can't stop. Her character arc could be about finding her way back a more normal mentality, and she could stumble along the way, perhaps costing some of her subordinates lives because she just had to pursue the last few orcs recklessly after some battle.

[@daveslaughter8290]

The characters are not just boring. It's as if the creators of this show had no idea of what makes a character not only likable but heroic. If your idea of a "strong" woman lead is a nasty, demanding, bullying, entitled, aggressive personality in a physically powerful martial arts expert whose primary motive is revenge (and who will gladly sacrifice others to achieve it) then the Galadriel in this series is your ticket (unfortunately for the actress - I believe her talents went to waste in this show). Contrast to LOTR, where the two primary heroes are Frodo, willing to sacrifice everything to save the world he loves, and Sam, willing to sacrifice his life for his friend Frodo. But they are certainly no warriors. The others - Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, and yes, Galadriel, are not only expert warriors but are, at their roots, kind and caring people. In contrast to ROP, the recent box office hit Top Gun showed Maverick sacrificing himself for Goose's son Rooster, and Rooster returning and getting shot down to save Maverick. This is what heroism is about and what makes characters we can both care about and admire. Much more could be said but this was my main gripe.

[@TheMPExperience]

Been watching your stuff for years. It is always the best take on stories, film, writing and creativity on KZbin. You are always funny and charming even when presenting takes you know the masses don't agree with. You knowledge of character's and character arcs is expansive and your re-writes are always the movie I want to see. Thank you for these lessons, and stories.

[@troco35]

Wonderful analysis!! I've been telling people this for years...If I don't care about the characters then I always have a hard time staying engaged in the long run

[@MsTinkerbelle87]

I really commend Peter and his team for making me feel gutted for Boromir and we didn’t even know him for very long. The love he had for the hobbits and his people was so sweet 1:49 was the only thing that came close :( Meanwhile this lady we’re supposed to follow for a whole season I could care less 😆 I forgot her bloody name pffft Who even asked for ROP? lol

[@joshidejj]

Honestly, I felt emotion when you gave Elrond that character arc. I felt my eyes burning when Elrond was rejected in front of everyone and I grinned silly when you described Elrond's joy. Sigh, if only we get more stories like this in this day and age like before.

[@TrulyMadlyShallowly]

Great point on Elrond's motivation. I like your story rewrite. Celebrimbor being Elrond's hero would also make the tension go haywire when Celebrimbor invites 'Sauron' - but Elrond is against it because he distrusts him, which is entirely canon-compliant.

[@samib990]

I love your idea about Elrond's new arc. I think it would be a fun addition to have Elrond going to Durin to borrow the dwarven forge to craft these rejected pieces and both of them get more and more frustrated. Would make a bonding moment between friends as well. Could have some fun commentary about elven vs dwarven forging and that's how Celebrimbor, Durin and mythril are introduced to each other, since Durin would take it personally that the piece he helped forge was rejected by 'some elf'.

[@Supremely_Based_Takes]

Wow!!! That was probably one of the most optimistic reviews of the rings of power I’ve seen on KZbin. Instead of just trashing the show cuz of its obvious flaws, you showed the potential it had to be a decent show if the writers put some extra effort in caring about their characters. Like I said, Very educational instead of just shitting on the show. MExcellent review!!!!

[@masterdynamo6457]

As a sidenote, it's possible to have a compelling character whose motivation is explicitly to fight evil. Let me share just one of many possible examples: Protagonist has been a hero for a long time. They fight evil because it's what they know how to do. But in that same vein, they can't stop, because what would they do then? They've been trapped in this heroic role. Maybe they even resent that it's their calling. But they carry on, because they fear the unknown that would be to stop. A pure moralistic high ground isn't enough motivation. "I want" is not a strong enough motivation. "I need" is what you're looking for. A character who *wants* something can stop with little consequence. "I want a sandwich." "Well, you can't have one." "Darn." Vs. "I need a sandwich." "Well, you can't have one." "If I don't find food, I'll starve to death! What else can I do to feed myself tonight?" When a character *needs* something, it naturally adds urgency to the plot. Failing to fulfill that need not only doesn't result in a positive consequence, it results in an explicitly negative consequence.

[@letspretendsomemore]

Ironically the problems I had with these characters are the same I had with The Hobbit, whereas with Lord of the Rings I felt I understood and remembered the characters, all I can recall of the dwarves in PJ’s The Hobbit was they looked different, but despite stretching one book over three movies I understood them better in the 90 minute animated film, it’s like Rings of Power opted to draw inspiration from Peter Jackson’s weaker Tolkien effort and doubled down on its mistakes

[@Mrmagliano]

This show was amazing at just one thing: fixing my entire family's sleep schedule

[@tylerskrovemusic]

This I think sums up why I didn’t finish the show. By the end of the first hour of the episode 1 was like “sure it looks pretty but I just don’t care.” I went back a month or so later and decided to finish it once HoD finished and I just for the life of me could not finish the show. It just had no soul behind it. I’m sure there are many people involved who cared deeply but in the end I just didn’t care about the characters whatsoever. Usually I would just drop the show and forget it but LOTR was the core reason I want to work on films and shows, and even write music. It was just so disappointing to see what had so much potential, rich lore, and some of my favorite characters and moments of all time, just turn into meh. And as you explained it, it all could have been saved by so little. It hurts. They had the money and time, to make it what they needed it to, and they didn’t 😕

[@renarddubois940]

I can remember the black elf's name because in french "Arrondir" means "to make smth more circular/rounder" basically in french his name means to round, and I'm sure if his name was To Round, you wouldn't forget it either..

[@orenparis]

at first, I thought that Galadriel's arc would be maturing and becoming the person from the original trilogy, but then I remembered that she's an elf, and therefore already like 2000 years old at this point. mind you this is coming from a child... a male child. a male child is pointing out her immaturity.

[@paragonviolet1719]

You can still have her mature and change her views even after 2000 years. Elves are immortal so time can flow differently for them maybe changing your views after 2000 years is normal for them "copium"

[@orenparis]

@@paragonviolet1719 well Tolkien never said anything like that. that's another real problem with the show, the writers had no respect for Tolkien or his fans, they were just after the quick buck

[@paragonviolet1719]

@@orenparis That is why I put copium at the end. If they made about how she goes from the arrogant immature version here to how she was in Lord of the ring it would be legit a super interesting series.

[@paragonviolet1719]

@@orenparis Yea, but honestly that was expected That they would not respect the source similar to the boys. But at least in the boys the writers were competent to write a good story instead of whatever the fuck is going on here.

[@orenparis]

@@paragonviolet1719 well I can definitely agree with that

[@HeroDestrin]

I love all of this. It's immensely in-depth and will help me a LOT with character development! I must say, as a filmmaker, I find it interesting how overly cliche the lighting is, and how even the Elven castles are dark and moody, and the lighting is all orange and teal like almost every big-budget movie ever made.

[@infingirl8488]

Hi Destrin 👋

[@HeroDestrin]

@@infingirl8488 hello ^^

[@Griede26]

Small correction. In the wheel of times books, who the dragon reborn was, was a question for the first few books, becoming more clear over time, but only becoming fully clear when rand managed to take the sword from the stone of tear.

[@Arcticgreen]

In the hypothetical "Smith's Apprentice" storyline... I'm throwing out there the idea that Celebrimbor himself tells Elrond about an "impossible to get" material that he's been wanting to get ahold of for decades. Thus begins Elrond's quest for Mythril. This could also tie in with a sense of betrayal and other things further along in the plot.

[@gp4236]

I think Derek from AHX, and the others you mentioned, were likable in their own way, not in every way, but in enough ways to captivate the viewer. They’re the kind of villain protagonists we love to watch. I’m thinking Tywin Lannister and Gus Fring

[@joshuapatrick682]

We also see where Sarah Conner Started as a character and watched her grow over the first film from a down on her luck waitress to an absolute badass which made it real, made her relatable and made us like her so that when we see her about to shoot Dyson we’re simply saying “Noooo!!!! Don’t do it, you’re better than that!”

[@deliriouszora]

That video about games having an unfair advantage for world building is so accurate, and why I prefer game story telling over most movies, or shows, and even books, as games most times makes it easier to back track for information, and can help back up a claim someone in the game may have said about the part of the world.

[@schattenvolkofficial1121]

😳😌 I actually pictured Elrond and Halbrand as rivals about winning the apprenticeship under Celebrimbor during your narration! Both working with such a heart and soul for their dream job he's truly impressed by both of them ... Galadriel maybe torn between them too, understanding how it burns in their hearts ... Man, that would have had so much potential!

[@leira_elmira]

That would have been so much fun! Love it!

[@NinjaFlibble]

Stargate SG1 and Atlantis were very low budget, but you actually cared about the characters. The end of Sunday still makes me tear up. Also the original Homeward Bound movie. I'm definitely in tears at the end of it when Shadow comes over the rise. They don't TELL you how happy and relieved Peter and Shadow are to be reunited, they show it (shit, I'm practically crying just typing this) (that scene is a double whammy as a fur mama)

[@aristosachaion_]

I never thought I'd see the day where The Critical Drinker and The Closer Look would be entirely on the same page about something, but it is a welcome sight

[@nivircescrittore8304]

We already have a story where a hero joins the villain after they give him a "join me" speech. Zuko joins Azula in Avatar, remember?

[@joaovitorjungblut5225]

at that point in the story, zuko is hardly a hero though

[@TheLastShow]

that moment you created.. when he showed the sword and got humiliated in front of everybody actualy made my eyes go watery..

[@nategraham6946]

At least Norrington's confidence in the head start plays into the playful nature of that movie.