THE RISE OF THE PRIVATE MESSENGER - BUT DO THEY WORK?

The Meshtastic off-grid messaging system has become very popular in the UK this year with over 1000 nodes dotted around the UK its been amazing to see and some great friends have been made. But what's next for the decentralised SMS network?
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[@BurtBartlow]

I host a node. I invested in a antenna and yes..I feel good about myself.

[@thedude8046]

Why

[@NJ-Tech]

I'm on board! Great video mate, learning a bit more with every video 👌🏽

[@andykirby]

Yeah mate! 👍🏻I was impressed you had instant connections as soon as you turned it on in your area!

[@fsbollox]

​@andykirby Hi Bro very cool video the cases are cool ++

[@sparkyprojects]

I just had a thought, the nibbler is small and self contained, i think you're game enough to try it, fly it attached to a kite, see what range you can get 🤣🤣 It's something a friend did back in the days of FMCB set at 400mw, with a legal antenna, he got stupid dstances

[@MichiganPeatMoss]

I'm interesting in learning more about usage in the States. Great review. thanks!

[@scottleggejr]

It's out there. I plan to use it when we're out off the grid where cell phones don't work.

[@hugovdz]

Fun fact: 868 mHz has a wavelength of 34.4 cm, which is roughly the same wavelength as a 1kHz soundwave.

[@Scout339th]

does that mean that theoretically I could record it with a good field mic, slow it down, and possibly hear it?

[@martijnspeklap8713]

Good thing you're back on Meshtastic! 🙂

[@dhonkeypunch]

i read that as Methtastic

[@pabloemms]

I have 4 nodes now, 2 at home on an omni and a dish, a car mobile and a dog walk node thanks to you Andy. I remember watching the video where you set up a yagi and I loved the idea of that. So I run range tests with the dish pointing towards Dartmoor usually, and get 20 miles + regularly to my mobile. I've been a HF man for a long time and meshtastic has enabled me to get into UHF really cheaply. 73 M0PCZ.

[@Tore_Lund]

A dish? What kind of diameter. At the low frequency Meshtastic uses, I'd imagine you'll need something like what the EME folks use?

[@robertmeyer4744]

great work Andy ! now I can see one of them nodes on your new drone .

[@anlpereira]

Great video. I like very much your videos and I learn a lot watching them. I will try to make a 3 nodes meshstatic network here in my region in Brazil. The open frequency here is 915MHz. Thanks

[@dangermandave67]

I'm moving from USA to Belgium in August. I just bought a Heltec H1 with an extended 868MHz antenna to take over with me. Not seeing a lot of nodes on your map around the Mons area where I'll be, but I plan to stick a node with a long range antenna on the roof of my place and we'll see what happens. Worst case, I can just bring it along when I make trips to the UK.

[@m7trsradio]

Great video. I like you have a couple of boards. In the end I just put then in a draw. Still there to this day. Good work 👍🏽

[@Satscape]

I'm in Nottingham (ENOT) and I'm seeing nodes in Lincoln and Northampton tonight. My node is in the loft with a "rubber duck" antenna. It is quite amazing how this stuff works. LoRa is witchcraft! 😁

[@CaptZenPetabyte]

Im hoping it takes off over here in Australia like it has in the UK, but getting the hardware at a reasonable price over here is a huge difficulty at the moment, makes growth very slow. For a HUGE country like Australia, meshtastic would be AWESOME!

[@globulas1]

I have rather a few of these.. and hoping to setup nodes in local area, Lake district and a few are of up to Glasgow. Always interesting videos Andy! Many thanks for helping to keep tech fun!

[@NEConforti]

I feel getting burnt, I mean, here I am watching this video 5 days after upload when I'd usually be all over a Meshtastic upload. I am seeing nodes tick up around me though. More and more passing by getting picked up off the highway too. It's growing fairly quickly.

[@seanyem]

Great Video! Fantastic Case! ❤

[@WheezerOfJuice]

I don't see any way to select a region or frequency on the store page. Is it only available in the EU frequency? :(

[@ahaveland]

Gotta have routes and routers! Unfortunately this also means large databases of nodes and routing tables, otherwise packages are just going to bounce around aimlessly until TTL is reached and nobody will know if its delivered. This was solved decades ago - it's called TCP/IP and BGP!

[@Satscape]

Very good point. Meshtastic does seem to blindly forward packets onto whoever is listenining, which sounds good at first, but is a bit like UDP, so your packet might get there...who knows! Amateur packet radio and Meshtastic should get together and have a baby?!

[@GUVWAF]

A low-bandwidth wireless mesh with mobile nodes running on microprocessors is something else than a fixed wired network (with wireless end-points). Apart from the required memory usage for routing tables, every "smarter" routing protocol requires control packets to find out the best paths, which will create overhead that quickly outweighs the inefficiency of the current "managed flooding" approach.

[@ahaveland]

@@GUVWAF depends how dynamic you want to make it, but anything seems better than the message in a bottle approach. Maybe some nodes could adopt routing roles with 2+ yagis to carry trunk traffic to other router nodes, and avoid bothering uninterested user nodes. If packets contain rough gps locations some routing could be obtained for free as long as there is a continuous path of cells to a destination. Then you have an issue of how to jump continents. It's complicated but optimal algorithms could be derived.

[@RobFisherUK]

Hm do we need to use smaller antennae when the node density is higher?

[@WildCaptures]

I just ordered two of the Heltec V3’s to try out 😊

[@andykirby]

Good stuff! It's good fun👍🏻

[@britishtechguru]

I have Lora transcievers on 433mhz and 915mhz. The 433 came without aerials so I'm waiting on aerials. Haven't touched the 915 yet.

[@thedude8046]

Just a modern cb radio

[@LoftechUK]

The solar idea will be great when I’m in my motorhome. Omg. What a great idea

[@atipikutopiste9927]

Bonjour Andy, pour la France il faut prendre quel modèle, le 863mhz?

[@billyhatcher643]

i just realized it feels like these guys are naming the devices after futurama characters but thats just me like the first device is the bender and now the new one is nibbler

[@Frankenstein-1]

Andy, what are you using to create the music I'm hearing?

[@CrashUK28]

Great your back.

[@LoftechUK]

I will copy your node video to put a setup live.

[@lynsmith1096]

Very nice

[@beekeepersjourney8192]

What antenna is that?

[@Electrowave]

No stock of anything on the website!

[@ChristieNel]

I found Meshtastic when I wanted to code a proper routing protocol for very low bandwidth IR mesh networks, assuming it already had such a protocol. I'm tempted to look at adding this into Meshtastic, but one issue would be the amount of code space it might require. I might add it as an extra microprocessor with enough RAM.

[@Tore_Lund]

Yes, you are on the right track. Meshtastic has a CLI. A linux distro like Meshcommander running on a Raspberry PI can over USB control a router or node completely, with python or what not. You have all the processing power and storage space needed to implement proper routing.

[@timwoodman1154]

Serval Mesh has entered the room.

[@jacquesredmond]

I have a stupid question of the day... :) Why are we all (myself included) ordering devices based on the frequency allocation of our region, when we could ALL use Meshtastic LoRA 2.4GHz international frequency and not have to worry about the bandwidth bottleneck in congested areas, and duty cycles? For example the LILYGO T3-S3 SX1280+PA. I would love your thoughts. :)

[@madcarew5168]

Loads of nodes beeping away in Midlands but no comms...are my settings wrong??

[@simple_simon]

Blackpool based here with my 2 raks and a lilygo t echo

[@yavamaystudio8045]

What frequency in UK ?

[@dudemiester75]

Whats the crack with bluetooth on heltec 3 . I cant get them further than 5m without disconecting??

[@kayone8571]

Your videos are such inspiring Andy ❤

[@philco8022]

I'm very interested in this tech as I'm deaf this technology could be very useful for me ,I have just ordered a kit to use and to see how I could adapt it to ensure us deaf have some means to communicate in a way that doesn't rely on phone networks, would you note this tech could be a major spinner for you guys for alerting the likes of people like myself

[@Robotron-zg6mf]

solar yes

[@jzarfas]

Hi Andy, At 1st I found this MeshTastic, but lately I've become little wary when you consider how AI could use this to facilitate device to device comms such as Skynet when the killer droids turn against us ? :-P :-D Just a thought..

[@Mellow_Wood_Hill]

I’ve played around with it for a few months, and just recently dismantled my antenna and router. Will keep a few devices for mobile play, but as a network comms setup it will never work well enough to be useful.

[@InVinoVeritas.]

It actually works very well...your personal experience is more likely b/c of lack of nodes near you to connect with.

[@restojon1]

The best thing to do is have a mobile node if you're not getting any action at home. I live in a massive hole where there are no nodes but I get out and about so I get a fair few connections then.

[@Mellow_Wood_Hill]

@@InVinoVeritas. no, thanks. My area is saturated with nodes, there are too many. Issues such as packet collisions, corruption of data, people driving MQTT traffic into the network, people using too many hops, people with setting their poorly located bode as a repeater. Mine was a gateway between North Yorkshire and South Yorkshire, had loads of traffic, antenna was a beast but it’s just not stable enough to be useful. But thanks for your feedback, based on zero information.

[@Mellow_Wood_Hill]

@@restojon1 I had an antenna in a high location, a mobile node, a car node and multiple solar nodes, I got loads of traffic, but it is mainly corrupted, pointless, unstable nonsense.

[@restojon1]

@@Mellow_Wood_Hill sorry you had a bad experience. I'm only having a bit of fun with my stuff and just hoped others would too. I'm really new to anything radio-related tbh.

[@IIIIIIPETEIIIIII]

How would this technology work in large public events where so many users crash the cellular networks?

[@xwarmangle]

really well

[@seanyem]

Very well, Looking forward to playing with Meshtastic at Glastonbury this year!

[@BorysMB]

I've flashed T-deck with newest alpha and don't know how to change receiver and channel on it, anyone know that secret :D ?!

[@Tore_Lund]

Either use the web client interface in a browser over the USB cable, or do it in the app.

[@BorysMB]

That is not the thing I was looking for, but thanks. I don't want to use another interface when I have T-Deck for such use cases. Heltec or others are suitable alternatives.

[@ArchonDarchigh]

I do need to send you some antenna don't I....

[@globaldeception7414]

That what repeaters are for on vhf uhf.. been doing it since the 70s

[@andykirby]

Similar but every radio is also a repeater in a mesh network.

[@seanyem]

Repeaters are still a single point of access between you and someone else, Where the mesh I a multiple path approach, meaning rather than a repeater on top of a hill to get to other side, ita possible to take multiple routers, maybe either way around said hill. Simlar to cellular networks but without the backbone between the towers. Wi-Fi has been all all over the mesh method for a few years now and it's a big improvement over boosters(repeaters). Amateur Repeaters are poor these days because of internet linking like HubNet (echolink), No longer being local Repeaters, but essentially Skype calls to the world.

[@globaldeception7414]

@@seanyem im aware its not the same.. but for people to give up repeater systems and voice systems that are stand alone is a huge mistake. When people shift over to something else they try to take away communication we had before.. you see this by the ham community being pushed into digital systems

[@docbrown1972]

And the map is free.

[@Tore_Lund]

The development side of Meshtastic needs to improve. As in Routers work as routers and not just clients you can't message. "Super routers" that say, are connected to a Raspberry PI could manage large node databases, even across MQTT and with better algorithms, plan routing hops by more than simply RSSI and keep a list of where clients were last seen so messages can be directed to the correct area. Like GSM works. Very much doable with few additions to the hardware we are already using.

[@andykirby]

Yes exactly.

[@johnjames8594]

1st class :)

[@edwardfletcher7790]

Grow up kid it's 2024, you don't get a prize for being on the Internet....🤡

[@restojon1]

Andy, I live just the other side of Bishops Stortford (I'm on your map, you'll see my node JZB) and it's my aim to be able to get a message to you. My current mobile setup has been reliably sending and receiving messages 21 miles so all I need is a node or two in between us and I reckon I'll crack it.

[@andykirby]

There's a node called Palmer road near me which has clear line of sight to Bishop's Stortford (the higher part) I have regular contacts to Vlad (bishops stortford west) so I think you have a good chance! Might need a yagi 😁

[@skeeter1070]

Kewl

[@donaldhiles_k9sgz428]

I live! In the us. If you want. More usage, sell one complete in a box. No adjustments needed. That. Would! Sell me.

[@ramiroaka9]

I whish we could have done this with wifi a long time ago

[@donbunson5031]

Meshtastic Is random, unreliable and quirky. There are sometimes almost 200 nodes showing up in my area. I kind of like its random nature because it stops people using the net for long conversation. It's a surprise everyday who got through and what they said.

[@yavamaystudio8045]

Disaster radio collapse 🥺

[@stephendonkin5497]

Why can you not get the complete set up

[@zerofox3d]

Shipping batteries around the world complicates things and buying Heltec's in bulk to compete with the AliExpress prices is hard too! The battery is easy to get hold of from Amazon and Heltec's arrive in a week from AliExpress ;-)

[@DerbJd]

I and my brother host nodes. We have 10 of them and I have the Lilygo wrist watch version too. My app is now on 366 nodes. I took it with me to John O'Groats last week on holiday and picked up Node called 1840 in North Kessock as I camped and passed through Inverness. If you're watching this, 1840, I am 'JMDW' JMD Mesh Watch 001.

[@Andrew-xk6hr]

Looks like the 77th are active in the comments section.

[@Sybernetix]

how much for a 3d printed case, bloody hell!

[@sprint955st]

Seen the price of just the files? Could be half that.

[@PtolemyCeasar]

Buahahahahahahaha!!!

[@BillWalters-kx8sw]

I see most are roadmen lol

[@timhull8664]

Don't worry in a years time it'll be taxed and you'll need a licence.

[@cyleleghorn246]

Laws only work on those who follow laws. This hardware is open source, you can build it at home and it works whether you have a license or not!

[@timhull8664]

@cyleleghorn246 so does telly.. plus anything can be taxed, and since you give yourself away on a map, it won't be hard to enforce.

[@cyleleghorn246]

@@timhull8664 the gps transmitting functionality has been around for years in the ham radio community, known as APRS. If you're going to use a radio without a license, you turn features like that off! It's different here in the US though, we have the big bad FCC (Federal Communications Commission) who has only enforced the law of being licensed to transmit on certain frequencies 6 times in the last 20 years, and that was for willful interference where The person was warned Face to Face at least one time, and they continued to interfere with paying users of that specific frequency band. The NSA and CIA don't care, they've been listening to everything on the air since 2001 anyways. Life will go on and nothing will happen to the criminals out there ✌️

[@ryemuehlmeyer192]

@@timhull8664 just dont use mqtt and you wont be on the map

[@ahaveland]

Not if you strap it to a tree with a small solar panel and battery and leave it alone. you could drop hundreds of these around the world and not be discovered.

[@tylerfoss3346]

Do they work? Do you answer the question? I'm not watching your video if you don't answer the question.

[@Gadgetdad007]

County lines drug dealers are probably using this technology too. 😂

[@izzard]

I suspect they need something a lot more reliable.

[@donbunson5031]

Odd comment. I really do not see why they would use such a unrealisable system. I also don't know what this county lines crap is. Dealers move shit around the UK always have. Why the new name?

[@zicadibrove4119]

A solution looking for a problem.

[@M7BXR]

I host a node, I'm struggling to see the point of it to be honest!

[@izzard]

@@M7BXR It's just a bit of fun to noodle around with. Definitely diminishing returns for those spending lots of cash on multiple nodes, expensive antennas, waterproof boxes, solar panels, etc. Fun as a hobby for a couple of weekends, and then leave it running for the benefit of others joining the mesh, I guess.

[@ryemuehlmeyer192]

bro its just infrastructure-less communications?! its not a solution looking for an issue. you yourself might not have an issue to solve with it but people in tougher less permissive environments def get use from it

[@zicadibrove4119]

@@ryemuehlmeyer192 That works fine as long as you have nodes near you. Once you lose that, it becomes useless. I give it a year at most before critical nodes dissapear. Weve had similar in ham radio for decades.

[@DaveF8]

I know many would disagree but it's become quite stale, and I've become bored of it quickly.

[@assistantto007]

I like tech as much as the next person , but I still don't get it...

[@edwardfletcher7790]

22 Pounds for a plastic case ??? WTF ? That's goddamn robbery ! I'm disgusted....👺

[@zerofox3d]

If it was hot garbage then you would have the right to be disgusted. But... it includes all hardware required (SMA pigtail or PCB antenna etc) and.... I pay tax lol. Yes, of course the materials cost is a fraction of the £22 that goes into them, the rest of the cost is a huge amount of honest hard work that goes into producing them from myself, my wife and my Dad. I've barely left this office in two months ha. It's easy to discount it as a rip off, the truth is no where close to that.

[@mybrighton]

€32 Euro plus postage 😮

[@mybrighton]

And you have to order the battery separately

[@zerofox3d]

Guys I have to take the bait here because it’s fun to argue on the internet, it’s what we’re all here for! 😜 I’m happy for anyone to visit my offices and see how they are produced, I’ll break down all the costs and processes. You can then tell me how I can produce them for less and feed my children 😂 (He feeds his children! That’s the problem, they should be packaging orders!)

[@edwardfletcher7790]

@@zerofox3d It's less than £1 for the plastic and another £1 for the pigtail. For comparison a RasPi clear ABS case costs £4 (or £1 on AliExpress) Now explain what the other £20 pays for ?

[@Animal-yb1rr]

drug dealers probably love those....

[@edwardfletcher7790]

They love encrypted msgs on Android phones more...

[@izzard]

@@edwardfletcher7790 "encrypted"

[@ohenekojo2561]

It isn't even that exciting

[@londo776]

Meshtastic is crap why For many reasons no Voice Is one, Try and send a text using them it's almost impossible and long winded. so Just use your mobile, And how are you going to power remote nodes So many reason why it's rubbish The Nearest node is more than a 80 miles away from me. as You can see completely useless, It's a fad and it will die down soon, Using Smoke signals will get you better range, To be honest even shouting will, even using CB or cheap Chinese dual band radios or pmr446 Would be better off grid.(On the south coast of the UK)

[@joneyes341]

Andy - down in your neck of the woods today. OMNP