The Rising Tide of Atheism - Sh. Mohammad Elshinawy | ICNA 2019

[@Marco-fp9hq]

Denying evolution is like believing that the earth is flat.

[@shabirvalli8646]

There was not a single moment in this awesome lecture where I felt confused or bored-not a single moment because the style of delivery is so captivating The voice is so smooth and he is eloquent-alhumdulillah

[@hal55984]

Absolutely!

[@l0_0l45]

@Chipmunk Horribly weak arguments. No one except brain washed muslims will be convinced.

[@saieidashik3492]

@@l0_0l45 so your problem is with the lecturer and Muslims. Not with Islam. ok. just don't ignore that people have rights to believe in Islam.

[@heyougetintomycar373]

"What are the pathways that are leading Muslim youth to atheism?" Knowledge, reason, rationality, an understanding of science. Atheism is a good thing.

[@coffeeloverr.a1546]

Knowledge about what? Something came from nothing.. "wow" that makes sense. We are not against science. Science tells how, God tells us why.

[@mujtabamahmud579]

u clearly didnt watch the whole lecture lol

[@maggyhamada2560]

Did you even watch the whole thing?

[@theagnosticdeist3373]

@@coffeeloverr.a1546 well I'm a ex-Muslim Deist... I still do believe in God but I don't believe in God revealing himself through a holy book anymore. Thoughts and prayers don't work!

[@Faisal-py7tr]

I am atheist too left islam 5 years ago... Happy now

[@Bluebirdisfreenow]

Spread humanity not Islam

[@cruisecontrol4922]

@@Bluebirdisfreenow And how to do you spread 'humanity'? Is there a specific version of humanity you want to spread that stems from your own flawed biased mind.

[@Bluebirdisfreenow]

@@cruisecontrol4922 humanity is pure humanity....What pains you will pain others as well... Every human being is different and let everyone live their lives according to them until it has any harmful effect on you...

[@Bluebirdisfreenow]

@@cruisecontrol4922 if you are a muslim you cannot understand humanity....If you are just a human being you can feel others pain....But a devout islam followers will fail to do so..

[@cruisecontrol4922]

@@Bluebirdisfreenow You my friend are a hypocrite. You will never feel the same empathy and care for all humans. 'Pure humanity' ....again there is no universal definition or understanding of 'pure humanity'. This is your own concoction. Beliefs, identities and ideologies unite and disunite people. Simple. It will be stupid for anyone to say they love and care more for 'humanity' which they don't know in comparison to their own immediate family, parents, children and people they share beliefs with. One will always care more about those they closely identify with. No two ways around it.

[@jimm.1013]

There is one word that generally describes why there is more atheism, and less religion in general throughout the world. That word is "internet". The internet has done two things, #1, it has brought outside beliefs and viewpoints to places where those viewpoints were previously restricted and #2, the internet allows access to research resources not previously available to many.

[@jimm.1013]

@Vengeful Avenger There was some beginnings of atheism and an atheist movement in the West in the 17th Century. The video is specific to Islam. The Enlightenment was almost entirely absent from the Islamic world until very recently and it still hasn't firmly taken root.

[@roxee57]

Our planet is insignificant when one contemplates the expanse of the known universe tbh.

[@sharkas9965]

Actually our planet is very special. Apparently the chances of life supporting planets and life to form are extremely minute. In that sense we are very special considering there is no other planet/life that even comes close to ours in the observable universe.

[@rehan4223]

@@sharkas9965 please check your facts before shit posting.

[@mohammedhammad2113]

Some really good pointers on how to tackle atheism or the over-reliance on science by any person for that matter

[@roxee57]

Mohammed Hammad Not really. There’s arguments for generic god/s which have rebuttals and arguments about specific god as claimed in books which have many more rebuttals. If this lecture was the best a specific religion can offer it won’t stem the flow of people leaving it.

[@l0_0l45]

@@roxee57 You have literally said the thing what is on any serious atheist's mind. This shaik and people like him are using old arguments that have been long debunked. And he is also deliberately lying about science. He commits false equivocation, begging the question, false dichotomy, and straw man fallacies. He does not make sense. He is the reason why people will leave islam. Congratulations to him. 👍👍👍

[@explorer7913]

demi- dogg they tackle by not using brain

[@theagnosticdeist3373]

over-reliance on Science? 😂😂😂

[@Treasurenature]

The first word in Quran is 'iqra'. Unless we don't read, research ,explore we won't find the truth. Our understanding is related to our surroundings. There is a larger picture how this world has been functioning for millions of years. You will find answer if you really want to.

[@mariamoriyomi8887]

Allahumma Amin. In Sha Allah we will achieve true faith, conviction, sincerity and sakina from Islam. Allahumma Amin.

[@shahiduzzaman8896]

Jazakallahu Khairan Shaikh!

[@roxee57]

“There’s no such thing as absolute truth” is a descriptive statement, not a prescriptive statement. Facts and truth are different terms with different meanings. This is why science doesn’t make absolute truth claims. It does discover facts about the universe though and uses facts to construct models that describe reality, and makes predictions which can be falsified. If one has no way of falsifying a claim it’s probably best not to accept it as an absolute truth.

[@l0_0l45]

Well said. That is why scientific claims(from humility and free enquiry) are far more reliable than religious claims(from arrogance of authority, ignorance of reality, and with false threats of eternal torture to prevent free thought).

[@saieidashik3492]

"There is no such thing as absolute truth" you say it's a prescriptive way. So this idea leads to two different ways to have the intention of what to do now: 1. Accepting we are limited to comprehend the absolute truth, so we submit to a Higher Power The Almighty Creator from Whose mercy we came into existence. 2. or we can just ignore that negation of our inability and cover our hearts from submitting to a Higher Power The Almighty Creator. Religion that claims 'it is the absolute truth' never requires anybody to believe without rational thinking. It's the free will of having an sincere intention in your heart to become a believer or a disbeliever.

[@saieidashik3492]

@@l0_0l45 Islam claims it's the clear distinction between truth and falsehood. So Islam doesn't forbid anybody to freely inquire.

[@saieidashik3492]

Islam claims it's the clear distinction between truth and falsehood. So Islam doesn't forbid anybody to freely inquire.

[@lightman2258]

I'm living in Europe. Here in Europe is a development, that religion gets more and more irrelevant. Even some churches are turned in restaurants and event locations, because nobody visits them anymore. In the USA are more people who believe in Christianity and practice religious rituals. It is really difficult to talk about religion with the people here, because it has a bad image. Religion was misused to suppress the citizens in history. If you speak about religion it is like you speak about suppression. For us Muslims it is the opposite. Islam means for us freedom. The freedom to express our love for our Creator.

[@furchungsteilung4795]

May Allah keep you and us all steadfest in our religion. I live in Europe, too, and I have the same experience.

[@lightman2258]

@Chipmunk For me it is a freedom to explore religions and try to find answers for the questions about our existence

[@lightman2258]

@Chipmunk @Chipmunk Sharia law is not only about punishment and restrictions. All law systems have this, but they have other sides too. The main aim is to achieve a function order.

[@nykwarti]

@Chipmunk Where in the Muslim Book "The Quran" does it say you have to kill someone when they leave Islam?

[@lightman2258]

@Chipmunk you know nothing about islam. This is clear 😃😃

[@kashifansari672]

There is no GOD only science and Humanity.

[@LearnArabicMSA]

Mashaa Allah !! Highly recommend watching it to the very end !!

[@intankhairinaputri7449]

Thank you for sharing this lecture

[@Abdullah34610]

Mashallah. One of the best lectures I've listened to yet. Allahumah Barik.

[@Abdullah34610]

@Kuffar Legion - What makes you say that? I have peace and comfort in who I am (a Muslim), and identify as such. I have an open enough mind to listen to others, understand where they come from, and accept if I am wrong. Yet judging by your username, you seem to still identify yourself by what you were, and watch videos like this one, why is that? You leave comments only to rile up unwanted emotions in people without any reason. I invite you to a discussion, if you can keep it civil.

[@Abdullah34610]

@Kuffar Legion - Not only have you changed the meaning of your original statement, you did not provide any reasoning. You just made more statements trying to invoke emotion and did not provide any reason behind them. Why do you feel sorry for my children? I make a statement about myself and you take me to be a liar without evidence, is this how you have discussions? Do you take me for a fool that you felt the need to surround a term in quotes? I made an incorrect assumption with the name, that was my fault. Though I did say "seem to". Antitheist? So you believe there is a God, but you reject and go against it? You say you're going to warn me, yet I'm still waiting. Besides, if you don't believe me to be open minded, what reason would you have to warn me of anything?

[@Abdullah34610]

@Kuffar Legion - Just because you believe it is a state of ignorance does not make it true. Just as some people may believe the world to be flat, does not make it so. Any group can believe the other group to be indoctrinated; you might feel bad for my children, and I can feel the same way towards yours for the same reason - this is a subjective opinion based on your personal beliefs. Just because you see religion as holding back civilization does not make it so; I believe the opposite - people doing what ever they want is dangerous to society and civilization. When looking at the rates of illiteracy, did you consider that it is correlation not causation and that you are looking at a snapshot in time? By assuming that religion is the cause of illiteracy, you are ignoring history, geopolitics, and much more. I don't need a single "best" reason to be a Muslim - attack whatever you believe to be the weakest point, but you will find it well defended. I don't know where you got your definition of theism, considering every dictionary I checked states it to be "belief in the existence of a god or gods". Atheism does not automatically force someone into a belief system, it just so happens that most atheists believe the same general ideas. How did I have a problem with exodus historicity? You didn't ask anything. Unless you consistently had poor grammar and did not use commas to separate your ideas/lists, I would have no reason to search those terms separately. And no, you never really asked me about it, you mentioned it in passing without any clear indication of anything - it sounded more like an example of something you might ask about and I have no reason to address an example unless I believe it to be intellectually dishonest, a false equivalence, or something of the like. For future reference: ask specific direct questions, I'm not here to play games of guessing what you might be indicating to. I'll answer this time so you don't accuse me anything. I take it you're referring to the lack of evidence? My reply: so what? Does a lack of evidence mean it did not happen? If I believe that there once existed a white gorilla, but I cannot provide proof, does this mean there never existed a white gorilla? You should learn to engage with people without placing them into predetermined stereotypes; there is little difference between an accusation and a doubt in this context.

[@Abdullah34610]

​@Dan Delgado - Judging by your response, is it safe to assume that you are the same person as @Kuffar Legion and that your comment was deleted? First I'll address the points in this comment, then I'll address the previous comment. Firstly, equating censorship with religion is foolish and you should know this; there are plenty of secular laws, societies, etc. that have censorship. Secondly, your previous comment had no challenge from an Islamic perspective, as I will later address, so I don't view that as a reason for the video owner to delete the comment. From my point of view, there are several scenarios that could have happened and you're assuming that the video owner deleted that 1 comment of yours, but nothing else. Off the top of my head here are some other scenarios: KZbin community deleted it (reporting or what have you), you deleted it to make me think the video owner deleted it and to strengthen your position, or there was some error with the code that caused it not post/no longer appear. Just some alternatives. Your initial comment on illiteracy rates is still there, and you hadn't addressed my point again in your reply, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. And I already pointed out that the reasons for censorship can be multifaceted, so yes, in some cases history and geopolitics can be blamed. Take a breather, maintain your composure, I'm not here to have a conversation with someone that can't control their emotions. As for your previous comment (I only see the original in my email, so I can't comment on anything you may have edited): How much do you know of Islam? The Torah, Tanakh, Bible, none of those concern me. The Quran was it's own revelation - anything it confirms in the other books means that that portion of those books are true. But those books did not need to exist in order for the Quran to exist. Keep in mind you are having a discussion with a Muslim. You seem to have created your own definition for theism and antitheist. It doesn't matter what theism may cause, that doesn't change the definition of the word. I've already mentioned that one does not need religion in order to be indoctrinated (i.e. follow a system). Can't money and worldly desires be something that is in a way worshiped? This is the Islamic understanding; anything that is given more importance than the Creator and chased after, that is an object of worship (this can also be abstract things such as fame, power, etc.). Perhaps a better term to go by would be antireligion and antireligionist. There was a mistake in my initial understanding of "antitheist" as well; I should have included the word "belief" in my definition- against the belief in a god(s). Anything can work on kids if it's presented strategically/systematically. It seems that what you are suggesting is to not teach children anything until they reach an age of understanding and have them choose what they want to learn, but at that point they would have wasted the beginning of their life and their learning capability would be diminished. Even in that scenario, their choice would be based on what they learned earlier in life. Just because you do not believe what someone else teaches to be true, does not mean it isn't. I've already brought this point up, why are you going back to it? I can say the same things to you, "Your poor children, you are teaching them lies and brainwashing them to not believe in their Creator." This is subjective. Even when teaching science, we are teaching what we believe to be true based on our observations. But what is true today can be proven false tomorrow, so should we not teach science either? I do not see anything wrong with teaching religion and science, so why are you dismissing only 1 of them?

[@Abdullah34610]

@Dan Delgado - Did you ever consider that KZbin's algorithm might consider that pattern of replying to be a bot/spam? It would make sense considering I received an email for the first reply, but not the next 2 that you're claiming. What I don't understand is why you're posting 3 separate comments instead of just 1. I have had plenty of discussions with people on other Islamic videos, and simply scrolling through the other comments/replies in this video where people are posting far more bigoted statements than you have, should go to show that there is not a moderator deleting comments that they deem unnecessary. Instead of formulating theories based on your presupposed ideas, maybe try to look at things from a third party view point?

[@malinakinnarath1091]

May Allah reward shaykh Ameen

[@coffeeloverr.a1546]

OMG. ..sometimes I think science withhold information or does not tell us the whole truth.. I'm not the only on then.. Allah knows best.

[@unsungdog400]

So what happens when you don’t believe, you go to hell?

[@owliealim745]

Duh!

[@schwarzweikamel1666]

Yes.

[@unsungdog400]

@@schwarzweikamel1666 This fictional god can get spit on. There are thousands of fake gods to believe in, how would I know to choose him?

[@unsungdog400]

@@owliealim745 Duh! lol. You say it like any rational person believes in a sky man.

[@unsungdog400]

@@dadapeer1989 I think I'll just be in the grave to be honest.

[@mnizam84]

Excellent ...Great lecture....Jazakallahu khair..

[@lilbaz8073]

Why can't you just accept that people don't share the same beliefs as you and leave them alone?

[@maggyhamada2560]

For the same reason you would run and grab to save a child running into the middle of the street. It is out of sincere care and love for others, nothing more.

[@theagnosticdeist3373]

@@maggyhamada2560 no thanks :)

[@naimaelmi5175]

Ma sha Allah TabarakAllah. JazakaAllahu Khayr

[@roxee57]

Wow, Pascal’s wager dude, seriously. This is why the religious concept of a hell actually existing is abusive, especially when taught to children.

[@lightsstreet]

BarakallahuFeekum

[@aqxxx7698]

Is he even talking to an audience.... Anyway nice talk and insight

[@nikazwar]

Everything you said are based on preconceived ideas and misconceptions

[@ms-zo3zb]

I think your argument that Christianity was made by a man and the book was written by a man is the same argument presented by Christian or atheists about islam, secondly muslim golden age did not progress further becasue some scholars as nizamul mulk steered muslims away from scientific knowledge and introduced Nizamya which focused on Islamic education, in my pint of view this culture of not asking questions has ruined us we are discouraged to enquire and are told to just stick with what you have been told. If west rose from dark ages we need to commend that becasue that is what you should do in order to progress, I am sorry to say all muslim scholars talk about the old glory days but never gives solution

[@hamzaawad4100]

We should all read the final Message to humanity: the Qur'an.

[@ms-zo3zb]

@@hamzaawad4100 yes but when someone asks question why are they told it is shaitan that argument alone does not satisfy human rationality which is given to us by God

[@maryamkidwai2543]

@@ms-zo3zb of course were allowed to question as the purest belief comes from understanding. But if some questions are unanswered you must work on them instead of assuming your logic is better and the logic of God. Like Ibrahim needes to see the birds resurrected to firm his faith but that didnt mean he stopped believing.

[@ms-zo3zb]

@@maryamkidwai2543 I work on them and but that is not the approach in mainstream mullahs if you watch their videos which is followed by million I have seen sometimes he is not telling the truth and they do not question ,one cause is that we are divided are in so many sects that who knows which version of truth are we meant to follow,

[@basitseraj5191]

@t W , neither you are scientists nor aalim and then you are presenting your points as untimate true. No sound intellectual will believe in evolution that man created from animals. This we reject and even scientists rejected, only foolish people believed because of achrophyl widely circulated the theory. That's not even a law. I think you need to study and observe naturally, don't have preconceived notion about anything then try to get knowledge. There is many missing links between homo sapiens and predecessor. Most theory of scientists has become false in science world only few passed. Evolution still a theory, didn't become law and many scientists rejected, we were taught some wrongs theory also in school just to know that's the theory. Bro, for you and me we can't say our understanding as truth to others if we don't know or have doubts. This creates confusions. He didn't say christianity created by a man, you understood wrongly. Hear this lecture again please. Pls don't get offend by my words

[@ismailhashim596]

The intellectual reason is not "atheism is more rational.... " rather, it is "Islam made claims that are not intellectually appealing....

[@pyrokittykat744]

The Jews are still looking for their Messiah. The Christians are waiting for their Messiah to return to bring judgment. Muslims are also waiting for the Christian Messiah to return to laugh at the Christians... Jews don't believe in hell. Jesus (Isa) was the first to speak of Hell as a literal place of death and everlasting punishmen. Quran goes into deep detail about how disbelievers will be tormented in hell. So... which is the truth? 3 books, 3 religions born from Ibrahim... so many different interpretations, variations and sects. Religious killing religious, all in the name of the same God.... No wonder humanity is confused.

[@saieidashik3492]

Have you wondered who is to benefit ? If the mankind gets confused about their purpose who is benefiting if not our sworn enemy. Do you know who is our sworn enemy?

[@pyrokittykat744]

@@saieidashik3492 Your sworn enemy is anyone who disbelieves in your truth, your version of "God" and the prophets that "brought" that truth. In short, your enemies are the enemies of Allah. Anyone that doesn't fall into line with your set of beliefs. If you were trying elude to the "devil"... who created the sworn enemy? 🤔 A all knowing intelligence wouldn't have done it... unless that all knowing thing was bored af and wanted to have some fun but then that doesn't make a all merciful or all loving deity... does it? 🤔

[@pyrokittykat744]

@@saieidashik3492 🤣🤣🤣 ok bro.

[@pyrokittykat744]

@@saieidashik3492 "counterfeit that story"? 🤦🏼‍♀️ no thanks bro. I'll leave it alone. You've proven to be way to intelligent for me 🤣🤣

[@roxee57]

If these are the arguments that are supposed to stop the flow of people out of organised religion you’re going to fail. It’s one thing to argue for a generic god belief, like that of the deists or the gods the pagans believed in as existing in natural things and events. It’s a whole other thing to claim a specific god written about in numerous books exist.

[@jnfoster2000]

Because Atheists don’t fight wars on behalf of Allah or Jesus...

[@l0_0l45]

Number of serious mistakes in this lecture: 1. The study of human and chimpanzee DNA similarity was done on coding pairs. That is 97% match. Not on junk DNA parts that do not participate in heredity because they are sterically obstructed. Also activation of junk DNA sections leads to several mutations. Junk DNA has been well studied, and it is documented as well as coding DNA. -- Conclusion: Here Shaikh demonstrates his ignorance. He is trying to cast doubt over valid scientific research without even reading the research paper, and only reading the title. 2. Science does not give absolute truths. Even statements that "absolute truths dont exist" is true, but not *"absolutely."* No contradiction here. So this Shaikh uses false equivocation and deliberate misrepresentation of the statement to refute the statement which was never made, that is "truths don't exist" which no one said, except him. Conclusion: He is himself confused about what he said, and lying is not helping him. Better luck next time. 3. Cosmological argument: Conflation of causation and creation. Because no one disputes that events have causes, they try to equivocate falsely that existence requires creation. But for that to be true, we would need to show that each of these premises are true. Cosmic expansion is not cosmic creation. The universe expanded from a hot dense state and cooled down to a less dense state. No new matter was either created. No indication that there ever was a "nothing" before the Big Bang. So the entire cosmological argument is false, as its premises are false. Conclusion: Plases don't copy William Lane Craig, who copied these old arguments and still failed. Better luck next time. 4. Sugar causes obesity: The corporate agenda to supress results of harms of long term sugar consumption was uncovered by guess who: *SCIENTISTS THEMSELVES.* When a muslim apologist does the same, then tell. Else do not tout this fact as a valid reason to doubt science. Conclusion: There is no escape in the science from flase results. Other researchers will check your results. Peer review is brutal to bad studies. No one escapes from lying. 5. Scientists do not release the full range of results: Comming from a Shaikh whose degrees are in english literature and islamic studies(hadith and literature). If he does not even know how to present basic scientific facts properly, then there is no reason to take this claim of his seriously. So far he did not present any proper scientific claim. He is automatically discredited. Scientists are always trying to falsify theories. Illions of dollars are spent on that. What do scientists gain from hiding any truths? Conclusion: What do religious scholars get from hiding the truth? - Money from gullible followers. And the sum total of this money is far greater than the national budget for scientific research. So if you want to lie and get rich, become a religious scholar. Trust me, scientists are no where close to rich. 6. Saying that Shaikh is not a conspiracy theorist and then presenting a conspiracy theory that "science is hiding the full truth." Conclusion: Irony at its best. 7. Saying that the secualr western democratic nations generalize religions, while himself generalizing atheism and secularism. Conclusion: He should have reviewed his lecture notes. He literally committed the same mistake he was pointing out. 8. Saying that atheism has intellectual and emotional reasons: And then he only refutes an edge case of emotional reasons. He never refuted intellectual reasons because he himself does not understand them. Also telling that to a crowd of believers will cause a lot of discomfort. Not good for his self image. 9. Conflation of anecdotal evidence and emotional reasons for faith as evidence for faith: This is the pile of bullshit one gets from these Shaikhs when they say that Atheism has only emotional reasons, but then talks about "fitrah". Conclusion: He has never heard of Irony. He is the embodiment of it. Making exceptions for oneself while denying that to others is dishonest.

[@l0_0l45]

If anyone wants to point out more mistakes, just type in response. Cheers 👍👍👍

[@l0_0l45]

@Dan Delgado I agree. However some of them are very convinced of their delusion, and will defend their distorted views on science to death. They will say that *atheists* don't know science. The guy who says that is usually an "islamic studies" major, who has just finished his indoctrination in a programme of "scientific miracles in the quran"(🤣🤣🤣 self contradictory as hell), has the _actual fucking balls_ to tell an *actual* scientist ot engineer that "you don't know enough science". 🤣🤣🤣 The person does not even think for a second how fucking stupid he sounds in his self righteous barking. The sheer irony kills me. I don't even know what to do, laugh or just give up hope that people will be *actually* persuaded with reason. But alas some are so far down the rabbit hole, the fear of a nonexistent hell keeps them from ever reevaluating their beliefs about a completely useless desert god Allah.

[@l0_0l45]

@Dan Delgado I think that their censorer does not look past comments that seem benign on the surface but are debunking in nature. But those comments are not top comments so they go unnoticed. Plus this video has very few views. Looks like you are on their list of people they are scared of. Anyway forget about it. Keep countering, they can't stop people forever. But be respectful as you already are.

[@l0_0l45]

@Dan Delgado 👍

[@l0_0l45]

@Dan Delgado Well anyway just know that they think you are important enough to be booted. Take it as a compliment.

[@explorer7913]

We began on the on the name of Allah the most deceiving and backstab being

[@knisiker615]

At the end of the day, there's nothing that anyone could say or do to prove the magical sky daddy is real... Waste of time.

[@zamtube791]

A lot of ssssssssssssssssss in his accent .... hmmmmmmmmm