The Road-Rail Hybrid that made things Worse - Larmanjat Railway System

In today's video, we take a look at Jean Larmanjat's Road-Rail system that took the efficiency of the railways and the mobility of roads and used neither of those things.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larmanj...
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fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramway...
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pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larmanj...

[@TrainFactGuy]

I can barely speak English on the best of days, so apologies to any Portuguese folks watching

[@apenasgargorio]

tá jóia we already like when the portuguese language is pronounced, atleast as a brazillian Sometime you should say "Day you cool", it can give a nice laugh

[@dreamfalcon]

The pronunciation was not bad. Living near Torres Vedras and we still dont have a good train connection to Lisbon.

[@engine4403]

Case in point you wrote THE made things worse rather than THAT made things worse

[@zmcanais]

No need to worry, we don't know how to speak either

[@zmcanais]

@@dreamfalcon LINHA DO OESTE MENCIONADA!!!!!!!!!!! O QUE RAIO É UM COMBOIO A FUNCIONAR CARALHO?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!!?!?!!!! 🚃🚃🚃⚠⚠⚠‼‼‼‼‼‼

[@JeffBilkins]

A problem with guided wheeled vehicles is the wear pattern on the roads because it runs on exact same surface every time.

[@TheFinalFrontiersman]

On the other hand, because it runs on the exact same surface every time, only that strip of road needs regular resurfacing

[@EdwardChan.999]

@@TheFinalFrontiersman And that surface can be made of steel to reduce maintenance!

[@TheFinalFrontiersman]

@@EdwardChan.999 if they'd done that or concrete runners on hills, along with painting the drive wheels with latex or some other rubber available at the time, they could've solved the problem. Maybe we'd have loads of goofy little half-monorails today!

[@sperzieb00n]

@@TheFinalFrontiersman technically we do have goofy little half-monorails today, but mostly as certain types of rides in amusement parks.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Locomobile is a brilliant name

[@yeoldeseawitch]

it was so good that an american car company stole it in 1899 lmao

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

It is also the word used, in both French and German for a portable steam engine

[@Waskotorowy]

​@@JohnDavies-cn3rosame in polish that means "road steam engine" or smth

[@joshuanishanthchristian5217]

There was actually a similar (but not necessarily the same) style of Road-Rail monorail technology used in India in the late 19th and Early 20th century! The two most famous networks to use it were the small North Indian city of Patiala's Urban Transit network and a goods railway in the Kundala Valley in the South. I believe the goods railway was destroyed by a disastrous storm, whereas Patiala's was torn up in the 20s in favour of improving the city's road network. There's at least one Patiala unit preserved in working order, and it used to do demo runs at the Indian NRM in Delhi, although I'm not sure it's still operational.

[@enrique5167]

I came here to comment the same. It's the "Ewing System" for monorails. Even more bonkers, as it only has one wheel on one side, symmetry be dammed.

[@GL-xz3xk]

I saw it in the Delhi museum in 2009 and it is bizarre! It looked like it may have been in irregular use back then.

[@prathamgautam6673]

@@GL-xz3xk it's still there on display

[@mattskey1]

Jeep owners: ready to go offroading? Me: *shows up in EMD GP9* got my geep. lets roll

[@dubuyajay9964]

?

[@drewzero1]

It's a GP thing, you wouldn't understand 😂

[@Boxpok]

One is 4x4 Jeep The other is a EMD GP9 locomotive

[@dubuyajay9964]

@@Boxpok Oh, ok.

[@tomasbarbosa8654]

When I saw the thumbnail I asked myself "will he talk about that line they built in Sintra?". Never expected a video talking about that line, as you said, that railway has been long forgotten thanks to the regular railway connecting the two cities. Great video. Edit: I actually didn't knew a lot about other than it's existence. It's always nice to know a bit more.

[@rottenroads1982]

The Victorian era was definitely a time of Innovation & Experimentation.

[@LBSC70]

The Locomobile Actually a great name

[@garryferrington811]

An early American steam-powered automobile company was named Locomobile. They enjoyed a brief success.

[@PortCharmers]

Horse-drawn mobile steam engines are often referred to as Lokomobile in German, as well as the classic self-propelled traction engines. However, it really does sound like the car of a mad Spanish villain from a Batman-movie.

[@KlaxontheImpailr]

A “crazy train” if you will.

[@mukherjeesuniversum2665]

In India, we had Patiala State Monorail... You can still see it in running condition in Delhi National Railway Museum...

[@Priyodarsono]

This kind of train is remind me to that tram system in France, that have steel wheels for steering & rubber wheels for the main load & driving wheels so the tram can run smoothly, fast, quietly & tackle the high road gradien. It have single rail in then middle for steering & stil exist until now.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Translohr and Bombardier Bombardier Guided Light Transit.

[@Priyodarsono]

@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio yeah that, just forgot the name 😁😁

[@Tom-Lahaye]

A modern alternative does exist and works, it's the industrial road-rail switcher, a truck chassis with rail guide wheels and couplings to attach to freight stock, also there are purpose built small locomotives which use rubber tyres for traction, but most of these only can work at low speeds and are intended for industrial use. They obviously will work best with paved in tracks as the tyres then do not only touch the steel rails but also the pavement next to the rail.

[@railtrolley]

Trackmobile.

[@francisboyle1739]

On the other hand Larmanjat has to be in the running for the title of the inventor of the gadgetbahn (not counting anything created before it was understood how railways actually work).

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

So this was the predecessor of the Translohr and Bombardier Bombardier Guided Light Transit, both o which are bad for exactly the same reasons as this was. I just checked on Wikipedia: The last Bombardier Guided Light Rail Transit went defunct in 2023, and a few Translohr systems are still around but several have also gone defunct; in some cases the defunct systems were replaced by conventional trams or electric trolleybuses; in some cases Translohr systems went defunct before even being completed or opening for even partial revenue service.

[@tomiboy2093]

There are tramways like this in use today. I once saw one myself. It's basically a tram with rubber tires and a double flanshed wheel in the middle of the axle. I think it's either in Italy or Switzerland...

[@adelestevens]

There's an operating system like this from Mestre to Venice in Italy. It looks like a tram ,with an overhead power collector but has rubber wheels running on a standard asphalt topped road with a single tram line type slotted rail set in the road. I would assume that the rail serves as the Earth for the electrical return.

[@seeker1015]

Sounds a bit like a slot car. Remember them? The guide blade had two braided wires on either side for the power, this tram-bus being fed from overhead is smart.

[@Idaho-Cowboy]

Good thing it only had issues with weird edge cases like rain.

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

There was a slightly later system developed in England, in the early 1920s which worked a lot better; the locomotive / tractor was basically a modified steam lorry, with a leading bogie, towing trailers for passengers or goods. It was installed at one of the big London exhibitions around that time, and worked reasonably well, but proved to have no inherent advantages over conventional lorries

[@ferky123]

I believe that a system like this could work better today as you'd have better technology and the locomotion wheels would be made of rubber which has more traction than the smooth metal wheels that they looked to be using

[@AlexStavrinides]

Entirely pointless, but I'd love to see a heritage railway commission the building of a replica and demonstration line, just as a demonstration of "blind alley" development.

[@warrior3456_]

that would be cool at a museum or heritage railway it wouldn't even have to go any where it could just be a straight line that the engine went back and fourth

[@arch9enius]

Indian Railway museum has something not quite the same .

[@notmuch_23]

There have been _so many_ alternatives to the standard two-rail system developed and tried that I believe at this point, trying any more is just reminding us of past failures, and more importantly, why we *_still_* use two rails for all but gimmicks, and niche applications that actually make sense (like the Wuppertaler Schwebebahn).

[@TheFinalFrontiersman]

Well because none of them are established systems, investors take any failure to mean exactly this, and they abandon the projects before they have a chance to be refined. Rail transit isn't some mythical thing delivered from on high, it was in development in some form or another for over a hundred years before, for example, Larmanjat's time. Even successful inventions like the Arnoux Guide Wheel system never received widespread use, not because it was unsuccessful, but simply because it wasn't compatible with existing systems. As a side note I feel like a lot of commenters on videos like this would feel perfectly happy bashing the Wuppertal if Tom Scott made a video called "the upside down train that doesn't work"

[@johnjephcote7636]

There was a single rail with road wheel outrigger used by the British in the 1920s to Patiala in the Punjaub.

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

Two variations on this technology have been used on lines in different cities in France and Italy. One is called Guided Light Transit, the other Translohr.

[@F0KK3RM4N]

Reminds me of the half-track concept, the off-road capabilities of tracked vehicles and the speed and control of wheeled vehicles, end up with neither

[@Monothefox]

Oh, hello, Translohr & TVR. Didn't see you coming!

[@TWOHEADEDOGRE]

high rail trucks are the closest thing we have today but are used for surveys and maintenance

[@Straswa]

Great video ToT, fascinating design.

[@geometrycraft5135]

Epic, new video. I'm here early.

[@lukechristmas3951]

"Locomobile." A word that comes from a failed mode of transport but has such a novel sound to it. It's incredible for me to think that such a hybrid emerged at the time it did as I would've thought something like this would've come to be around the 1890s or so.

[@alicehodges9964]

@@lukechristmas3951 I Like The Steam Engine It's Amazing

[@timothyteo4602]

Not sure if it counts but both the VAL system and even the Siemens Cityval of the Rennes Metro Ligne B might technically classify as a Larmanjat road-rail system but I could be very wrong

[@garryferrington811]

Fascinating story. The system does seem logical. Chalk it up as a noble failure.

[@drewzero1]

This reminds me of the Patiala State Monorail Tramway in India, though as far as I can tell it used the railway wheels for most of the weight and traction and only had the road wheels for balance.

[@ChimpManZ1264]

Once engines with potential claim, many were defeated by rain. They'd run into flaws, some disasters were caused, and they never ran again!

[@KlaxontheImpailr]

Please consider covering the Letourneau overland train, also road-trains in Australia.

[@DennisLora2001]

Fantastic story man I love it 5:05

[@Petor_griffin]

Cool

[@InfinityHunterxDD]

Interesting

[@AndrewTheRadarMan]

Technically the road rail concept returned with single rail trams. Power ran from overhead catenary to a hidden metal wheel and diesel electric motors powered tires.

[@Ramark0079]

Can you talk about the GWR steam rail motors, please.

[@seeker1015]

Surely on modern roads this would work? Rather than have the weight partially on the center wheels, why not dispense with them for maximum traction and have a guide blade instead that follows a deepish grooved track with broad sides set flush in the road? Maybe a clever arrangement of small guide wheels/rollers would reduce wear and noise.There's no reason for the carriages and trucks shouldn't be supported on the broad sides, by the central track maintaining the low friction, flat ride. It'd be an easy conversion of a semi trailer prime mover. The guide blade attached to the steering linkage, remove the steering wheel and column and there we are, powerful truck, multiple gears, two speed dif, already set up for long hauls for the comfort of the driver, except now they won't need to worry about steering,... sweet!

[@00Zy99]

In the 2000s, there were two different types of system that attempted to make electric versions in France. One failed completely in its two applications and is now gone. The other has had somewhat more success, but I honestly still suspect it of being a scam to funnel money to the rubber industry. I'm quite sure that standard rail could accomplish everything that it claims to do.

[@joedingo7022]

Cries in Brennan Monorail.

[@InvisibilityMerlin]

Could you make a video about North Borneo Railway (NBR)? Its in my country, Malaysia

[@dubuyajay9964]

Could a suspension system similar to the ones the horse wagons of the era have been used to compensate for the rough terrain, or was the vehicle too heavy or the drive system too much in the way to make it work?

[@epiculo2]

Not satisfied enough, the French tried another swindle like this with the Translohr at the beginning of this century. Maybe four or five lines have been built, two of them in Italy. In this moment just the Italian lines are working with a lot of issues, the rest in France and China have been demolished (fortunately).

[@AbbeyYard]

So what would it's whyte notation be?

[@drewzero1]

From the pictures it might be a 1-1-1 😂 There may be some technical notation for the wheels not being all on the rails.

[@rossbryan6102]

1/2-A1 -1/2 LOLOL

[@shimesu443]

I wonder how much things would have improved if they'd given the locomotives rubber tires on their driving wheels.

[@Locomonarch]

Haha One of the photos used wasnt of a locomotive in Portugal but actually a South African Locomotive called "The Portuguese tank"

[@harrisonallen651]

The Portuguese experimental railway

[@westinbridges7321]

Life lesson: Do not take trains on the road, or cars on the tracks.

[@jed-henrywitkowski6470]

I thought this video was going to be a bout an early Hy-Railer.

[@alexcanine4948]

Dang yo

[@harrisongrant8558]

So this was effectively the first "gadgetbahn".

[@doctorhabilthcjesus4610]

Would it work today? 1.) No (Bombardier TVR). 2.) To some extent (Translohr).

[@microbusss]

so it was a 1-2-1T loco?

[@EternaResplandiente]

Locomobiles! Tha future. I'll be right back

[@Lamp_2155]

I wonder how this would’ve worked if it was a geared rail.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Just to tweak your nose a little: why 1-1-2-1-1 and not 2-2-2?

[@user-cw2vs4uw8k]

Hi

[@toyotaprius79]

If only the road wheels had vulcanised rubber

[@sunethrareddy4025]

The beginning of every video he says a problem wow😑😑