The Role of Greyscale in the Winds of Winter (ASOIAF Theory)

Hello everyone! I've been getting quite excited for the Winds of Winter lately, and wanted to discuss my theory as to what will happen regarding Greyscale. What do you think? Is there anything I missed? What do you think of #houseofthedragon so far? Be sure to leave a comment, as well as like the video and subscribe if you enjoy.
My Twitter: / quinnthegm
00:00 Disease in ASOIAF
01:46 What is Greyscale?
03:01 Shireen Baratheon
05:00 Jon Connington
07:00 The Bells
08:53 The Scouring of the Shire

[@avah3643]

Something a lot of people don't mention about Joncon's future war crimes is that the bells ringing in king's landing mean that the king has died. They rang when Robert, and then Joffrey died. If Dany attacks after Aegon has been crowned, and he dies, the bells will ring. Not only do the bells now signify Jon's greatest military loss at stoney sept, but his greatest personal loss with the death of his surrogate son.

[@QuinnTheGM]

EXCELLENT point. I love this added potential depth to the bells. Aegon is JonCon’s world right now, losing him would most certainly send the Griffin over the edge.

[@avah3643]

​@@QuinnTheGM and excellent video on your end! I always thought it was strange that d&d used the bells as the catalyst for Dany burning King's landing. They mean nothing to her personally, and have never been a declaration of surrender. It makes much more sense for JonCon to cause destruction, for various reasons, after hearing them.

[@carlrood4457]

@@QuinnTheGM This would also play into Danerys getting the blame. If Connington sets off the wildfire, but no one knows about it, the woman with the fire breathing dragons would probably be blamed. It could break her, to actually not be loved by the people she's "liberating".

[@Ilivedbih]

Surrogate son that he's horny for

[@fuckoffgoogle1657]

This wouldn’t make season 8 better. Pls stahp.

[@invincibleluis]

Its incredible how one person created this entire world. Amazing.

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

He took a lot of inspiration from others yet totally made it his own.

[@mori1bund]

@@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215 Every author takes inspiration from others, nothing originates from a vacuum (and yes! I know quantum physics disagrees 😅). A cook also needs different ingredients to make a cake. Doesn't change the fact that the cake is its own thing. No one would complain "but to make his cake, the cook took from the guys who provided milk, sugar and eggs..." 😉

[@SvenDzahov]

Writing a fantasy book myself, and I’m working with a small publisher. And, yep, super impressive world he’s built. But, you do get a tooooon of help. So, a writer is probably spending about 32 hours a week just writing and another 12-18 outlining and working with the editors. GRRM likely had an acquisitions editor, substantive editor, copy editor, several proof readers, managing editor, and production manager all just on the creation of the book, not including artists. This is in no way to down play GRRM’s work, it’s brilliant. Just highlighting the other brilliant people involved! The author is still going to be doing much of the heavy lifting, especially of course, in story. But you do have a tremendous amount of aid in the story telling aspect. And wIth said edits, you realize parts of your story you haven’t even considered before.

[@jadenrocks22]

@Dizzy also to build on that. I remember reading an article where GRRM had said that after the release of a game of thrones or maybe a clash of kings he received a lot of fan mail, maybe the first one ever from a woman and her husband. He proceeded to write them back and they exchanged letters fairly often. The couple would ask questions and knew so much about the world that George had built that some times he just was not able to answer their questions. I think it was during the 4th book that he said he actually started asking them some questions about the lore of his own world due to them knowing it so well. They then went on to be co-authors of the "a world of ice and fire" book. So it's even just two fans that really enjoyed the work that ended up helping make the series and world just that much better.

[@SvenDzahov]

@@jadenrocks22 exactly. Yeah I have a good friend whose also a writer, different genre. He actually does non fiction, extremely esoteric cultural anthropology academic stuff. And half of my world building stems from us just talking, I have an idea I tell him, he gives me some variation of “hmm, well that doesn’t make sense because of (x)” And I realize something and adapt to be more logical and thought out. But a lot of my very high fantasy, epic aspects are brought out due to the realism that grounds the rest. The creative process in general no matter what it is, is highly collaborative. Kendrick Lamar is one of the greatest hip hop writers ever. Of course he is brilliant and deserves praise, but there are dozens of engineers, writers, composers, musicians, vocalists, producers, arrangers, beat makers, etc all involved with taking raw creativity and turning it into brilliance

[@tieranalexander4475]

I think given Danny's past experience with a plague destroying her people, she would absolutely handle it differently if given a second chance. If she arrives in King's Landing in the midst of pandemic will she commit mass genocide to stop it from spreading again? That seems a bit extreme but she knows how important cutting it out before it festers is with the pale mare in Meereen being so destructive. It's at the very least the best possible justification I've seen for Daenerys choosing to burn King's Landing and all of the Small Folk.

[@QuinnTheGM]

Great connection, I hadn’t considered Dany’s prior experience in Meereen.

[@mschell8022]

This would make the story much more complex and worth the reader's time than just the whole "she just suddenly loses her mind" idea

[@neuralmute]

This is exactly what I was thinking while watching this video! A deadly epidemic would give Dany a legitimate reason to burn at least the worst affected parts of King's Landing, in an attempt to stop the spread of the disease, especially after her experience with the White Mare. It could also be a chance for good intentions to go horribly wrong, as Cersei's wildfire caches would likely still be hidden all over the city, and dragonfire would most likely set them off in an unstoppable chain reaction. I also can't help but see a historical connection here, considering GRRM being such a delightful history nerd. In 1666, the Great Fire of London brought an end to a brutal outbreak of the Black Plague that had been ravaging London for over a year. As with so many other events in his work, GRRM might well use this event for inspiration, but make his version much bigger, scarier, and all around worse for everyone.

[@BillyBasd]

​​@@mschell8022 Danny's mind somehow left

[@Ilivedbih]

​@@BillyBasd I wonder why ppl aren't calling Arya mad if they think Dany is lol.

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

Martin isn't a coward. He has, multiple times, criticized big productions for changing their plot cuz fans guessed it, he won't change his plot just cuz the world is wonky.

[@QuinnTheGM]

I agree completely.

[@romulusnuma116]

But he also just changes his mind a lot

[@Ashbrash1998]

@@romulusnuma116 True, but he usually tries his best to cover his bases if he changes his mind

[@Neumonics429]

You don't need to change the plot if you never write anything :5head

[@FriendlyNeighborhoodDogman]

Greyscale seems like Syphillis and Psoriasis had a baby, except it’s a contact and water-spread disease. The fact George came up with such a horrifying but possible disease is amazing.

[@fullirishham1015]

As someone who has Psoriasis, this statement has just made the entire idea of Greyscale all the worse to imagine. Flesh hardening to stone, mind ravaged to it's breaking point and an itch that can never be relieved...

[@Ilargizuri]

In the Books Daenerys has a Vision of a great Stone Beast, that takes Wings from a smoking Tower and breathing Shadows. Given the Fact that Daenerys doesn't see People she didn't met before in a metaphorical Sense, that could be Jon Connigton who spreads Greyscale through Westeros. In Terms of Shireen spreading Greyscale in the North, I don't think so, she is a red Hering in that way. I think GRRM just wanted to hide the fact that Melissandre will burn her to bring back Jon. Most of the Time any kind of pathogenic organism is not fire resistant. So if Shireens Body is burnt, the North should be safe for now. Besides it is not likely that with the boltons, the Others and still 2 Starks out of the North that we don't have enough things that happen there.

[@Ashbrash1998]

Agreed, Shireen at this point hasn't spread Greyscale to anyone in her household for years and her disease hasn't progressed at all in that time so its probably dormant/cured. It'll more likely be used as an excuse to burn her, even though she can't spread it to anyone. Sound like a GRRM thing to do

[@Sienisota]

If it a disease based on fungus, there is a chance of heat actually being a catalyst spreading the spores. But in the case of Greyscale, I think it's more something that spreads in moist and airless spaces, like a mold.

[@whyareyoureadingmynickname8158]

What if, in the book, Shireen gets burned by desperate folks in hope to prevent spreading of greyscale, only for it to backfire completely? Would be a very GRRM thing to do. Also, kinda unrelated, this video just convinced me that Vale is the best region in entire Westeros: decent climate, fertile lands, relative safety and can be easily isolated in case something like this happens. Littlefinger has chosen his starting base quite wisely.

[@QuinnTheGM]

The Vale is super underrated as a location. Only reason it ever got conquered is because of dragons, and barring those there’s really no way to safely approach.

[@tixxoncraft]

@@QuinnTheGM "conquered" is also a very loose term here. Visenya just showed up and gave the young king a dragonride which unnerved his mother so much, she surrendered without battle.

[@tanoshiofm3852]

@@tixxoncraft It was more to show two things: "I can hurt your son and his line ends here", and to show that dragons can decimate the Eyrie like they did to Harrenhal.

[@polishherowitoldpilecki5521]

Mountain tribes

[@ILikedGooglePlus]

It was still conquered by the Andals tho. But still, best region to live in

[@niksutliff]

One of my theories is a greyscale outbreak (and the rise of plague generally in the book, see the pale mare in Mereen) is a direct result of war. Westeros having been torn apart by war, and especially the movement of troops was a large influence on bringing plagues in the real world. One theory I have regarding it's usage is to show how far westeros has fallen, and will continue to fall. One thing that may happen is if large amounts of people die from plagues, you have less mouths to feed and the landless peasantry can demand more wages than before. With winter coming, this could be a blessing in disguise. But more generally I think it's a vehicle to destabilize and bring Westeros closer to the brink

[@ashleyofnaath]

Spitballing here, but I think it's possible that Dany's vision from the Undying Ones of "a great stone beast taking wing, breathing shadow fire" could be a reference to Jon Connington spreading greyscale. It doesn't make sense that Dany wouldn't recognize a dragon if that's what she saw- regardless of its scale texture. Failing to recognize a greyscale covered griffin, though, is a different story. Given that this vision was tied to the title "slayer of lies", and given that JCon is fAegon's most ardent supporter when fAegon himself is seemingly linked by vision to the title, I think it makes sense that this figure is JCon. If memory serves, the stone beast takes flight from a smoking tower so maybe JCon starts spreading the plague after getting triggered by bells and blowing something in the capital.

[@mimimurlough]

Fascinating! If the inspiration comes from the scouring of Shire, I doubt the greyscale was meant to play into the climax of the series. On the other hand, we keep forgetting that while Faegon has been mostly set up to succeed, this is his achilles heal. Very in line with the series to have the best candidate for the throne die tragically due to something like this.

[@spideregg]

If people affected with greyscale are known as stone men, could a Dragon so affected be a stone dragon? I really like your idea of JonCon spreading it. George as talked about how he came to see the Scouring as being very important to LOTR. I wonder if KL might be his Shire. If after the victory over the Others, as the survivors make their way home, they see the desolation that years of war, famine, winter, and possibly plague, have wrought.

[@herbertschulz4313]

I think, if anything is grrm's Shire, its probably either winterfell or maybe Dorne

[@saxogatley1166]

@@herbertschulz4313 I bet it’s Casterly Rock and Lannisport with the last surviving Lannisters & Freys

[@liamcarignan7254]

​@@herbertschulz4313 I think the equivalent to GRRM's Shire would be Greenstone. I've analyzed my reasoning on Greenstone for multiple reasons, but it does give way to being wrong, too. My first reason is green. Garth Greenhand is one of the most talked about mythical characters in his legendarium, not to mention of the Order of the Greenhand. The Greenhand is a similar connotation to that of Martin's Irish heritage and legendary story of Niall of the Nine Hostages, whose sigil was the Red Hand of Ulster. Estermont, in my eyes, is like the Isle of Mann of Westeros. For example, Dragonstone could be the equivalent of Wales as the heir to the Iron Throne bears the title prince/princess of Dragonstone, like the Prince of Wales or the Princess Royal. Not to mention, there are more Gardener kings named than any other royal dynasty aside from House Targaryen, after their extinction, much of the green was handed over to their immediate successors, House Tyrell, and House Hightower. House Hightower lighting the fire of upon the High Tower green to call their banners to war, along with the Dance of the Dragons (or his War of the Roses) between the Blacks and the Greens. Point being, green is very frequent, if not too frequent. My second reason adds onto my first reason, and that being that House Estermont's sigil. A dark green sea turtle on a pale green field. This may not add up to any particular ends, but Martin has explicitly spoken of his pet turtles as a child as his inspiration behind his legendarium. Do I believe this to be true? I don't know, but it could be. I think this due to the green turtle brooch on his hat and the purple turtle brooch he wears on his coat or collar. My third reason being that House Estermont plays a crucial role in the series as Lady Cassana Estermont married Lord Steffon Baratheon, the father of Robert, Stannis and Renly and the grandfather of Shireen. Thereby continuing House Estermont within his legendarium and not being one of the ones he lops off the charts. My fourth reason being that House Estermont could have initially inspired his continuation to write his legendarium, as Estermont literally means "eastern mountain", which would give respect to his childhood home in New Jersey (the east coast) and the castle in which they supposedly fought to rule over. My other interpretation of this reason is his editorial with (Isaac Asimov and) Martin H. Greenberg, who was heavily into sci-fi, mythology and fantasy, which is right up along his alley. My final reasoning is that the Shire was built upon Tolkien's childhood home (as of three) in Birmingham and visiting his aunt Jane's farm, called Bag End. He ended up using the growth of Birmingham to inspire the growth of his own Hobbiton and further legendarium. His relation to aunt Jane is prevalent, too, due to the case of Bilbo being called uncle, when he was in fact Frodo's first cousin through his mother's side and second cousin through his father's side. In truth, I don't think Martin is anything like Tolkien. Tolkien wrote his legendarium as a collection of various letters he would send to his children during his time at war and many of his travels would also inspire his writing. Many of the women he involved in his stories such as Luthien, Nimloth and Arwen, are inspired off of his wife, Edith. Yes, Martin wrote his legendarium in a similar fashion and took much off of Tolkien. Yet, Tolkien had also dabbled in constructed languages since his childhood such as Latin, Anglo-Saxon and Esperanto, later taking ties from Welsh, Danish, Icelandic, Greek and Finnish, too. He had created Quenya, Sindarin, Adunaic, Numenorean, Khuzdul, and possibly others. Many of the people, places and beings are particularly named according to his adapted languages while Martin borrowed languages such as French and English. By all rights, he didn't even make the Valyrian that House Targaryen speaks in A Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon, David J. Peterson did and due to copyright, had to include Martin. Peterson in fact assimilated Dothraki, High Valyrian, Mag Nuk, Skroth, Asshai, Lhazareen, and Gerna Mohr. The Valyrian we witness is inspired off of Tolkien's elvish languages, aside from changing much of the Welsh and Anglo-Saxon to French and Bantu while Bastard Valyrian has bits of Arabic in it. Otherwise, if our Atlantis is Tolkien's Numenor to Martin's Valyria, I'd have to say that his Bag End would be Estermont, Oldtown, or even Old Oak.

[@janwouter5215]

@@liamcarignan7254 thematically it's WF

[@liamcarignan7254]

@@janwouter5215 Granted, theme has a lot to do with Martin’s writings, he uses more prophetic and symbolic connotations to bring out his own flare, much like how Tolkien adapted his own language upon his world building. Speaking thematically, the Scouring of the Shire has a likeness to that of Winterfell due to the Stark’s having to win back their home from House Bolton. However, unlike Winterfell, the Shire (and Bag End itself) were pure inspirations off of Tolkien’s childhood home, much like how Estermont would be attributed towards Martin’s childhood pets. It’s not about theme, so much as symbolism. Martin is very sneaky like this. He’s used the same Winterfell scenario in other cases as well, which is why I ultimately rule out Winterfell. King’s Landing (or all of Westeros really) for Daenerys, Riverrun for House Tully, Winterfell for House Stark, among others. If Martin had a Shire in the north, it would be Winterfell, though. Furthermore, I honestly don’t think there’s an equivalent to the Shire, but the Scouring of the Shire, the story rather. Aside from my long, unnecessary explanation, there doesn’t seem to be a Shire. So, I suppose thematically, in regards to the Scouring, yes. Otherwise, Estermont seems the closest bet towards his world building perhaps.

[@SapphireSolstice67]

8x05 plus JonCon makes it so much better. Remember also someone told him that Tywin would have burned the town down before the battle of the bells. Him setting off wildfyre makes so much sense.

[@Lila_S.]

Jon Connington and bells sounds particularly on point, it's a very GRRM thing to do. Thanks for another great video!

[@PinkyJustice]

Waking a dragon from stone sounds like sacrificing Shireen to wake up Jon from the extra holes his buddies gave him at the end of Dance

[@mikecohen7716]

Perhaps it's a reference to Shireen's Targaryen ancestry? Perhaps she burn.

[@unlapras9365]

I think the burning if King's Landing will actually be related to grayscale. This had been foreshadowed when Bloodraven used wildfire to stop the Great Spring Sickness. I would not be surprized if Daenerys did something similar.

[@soter8253]

Myles Toyne casually convincing JonCon to be more like Tywin and commit more atrocities

[@QuinnTheGM]

Just some light war crimes, no biggie.

[@mister_i9245]

I saw a theory that Shireen will be burned, and Patchface will put her remains into the food supply as revenge for killing his one friend which thus leads to an outbreak of Grey Plague, one that starts inside. Men will go mad without anybody knowing why, until one attacks another and is disembowled revealing stony intestines. Stannis' last act being and order of mass suicide to prevent the spread of the plague.

[@SamButler22]

So the fact that it's not as tough on children, but potentially lays dormant; makes me think of chicken pox and shingles. While it's less deadly than greyscale, it is tougher if you get it as an adult. And it lays dormant until potentially coming out as shingles in later life. I'm not sure what to take from that, or if it means anything... but there you go

[@elliesager]

Maybe this is where Martin got that idea.

[@SamButler22]

@@elliesager possibly! But it's just vaguely interesting; I can't come up with any kind of conclusion that might give us a clue where the story might go or any sort of thematic analysis

[@mori1bund]

Great work! 🙂 I like these theories very much, especially the fAegon contracting Greyscale theory is "Dragons awakened from stone" is something where I think: why have I never thought about it, because it makes sense and it's pretty much the way how GRRM likes to play with prophecies. I just want to add one small detail to the JonCon-Bells theory: one reason why he is so regretful about the Battle of the Bells is that he thinks his mistake was to show too much mercy to Robert: if he had burned the village where Robert was hidden to the ground (something Tywin would have done) Robert would've been dead and the rebellion would be over - so when the bells toll the next time, he will be sure to show no mercy if he has to burn something to the ground... 🔥🔥 Dany definitely got Jon Connington's plotline in GoT, similar to how Sansa got Jeyne Poole's story.

[@isaiahdaddys9379]

Jon Con will indeed get more and more ballsy w his grey scale spreading

[@patrickwingard1927]

the fire reawakening something that thrives in ice makes perfect sense, considering the song we're listening to. maybe too on the nose, but I could see shireens burning sparking a plague.

[@vonthecheeseman8347]

Every one of your videos is entertaining and insightful I can’t wait to see more of them

[@jibbedol2968]

My new favorite channel. Keep up the good work man👍🏼

[@sixheadeddog]

Curing greyscale is easy, apparently. All you have to do is get some forceps, move in like you're about to peel a magical plague-scab off, then the camera smash-cuts away to Hot Pie, and by the time the audience gets back to you, boom. Cured!

[@QuinnTheGM]

Hot Pie heals all wounds.

[@phonathon9210]

Man you are def one of the best theory channels out there, love this stuff

[@luminyam6145]

That was fascinating, thank you.

[@Aeterny]

Mace and Olenna will almost certainly die sometime after Aegon (Blackfyre) is crowned king, after nearly half of the Tyrell force rides off the cliff, they'll at least try to persuade Aegon and Jon Connington to forge an alliance with them by marrying Margaery (whether or not they succeed is difficult to say for now), considering their wealth, popularity and ability field a great army unlike Dorne. All of the fighting will appear to be over.. except for the Vale and Ironborn invasions, Mace, Olenna and Margaery will think they've succeeded over the Lannister's until the Golden Company's dream shatters.. Margaery is currently a comfortable prisoner in the capital alongside her innocent cousins who have their whole lives and futures ahead of them, Megga, Elinor, and Alla. Margaery winning her trial makes sense considering the attitude of the Tyrell and Lannister guards in the chapters reviewed by Preston, which will in turn set her, Mace, and Olenna up to suffer the greatest downfall that could be ever seen in literature by way of Jon Connington unintentionally causing a Greyscale epidemic that will spread out from King's Landing, all the way to the Reach, Westerland's, Vale and possibly Dorne. She will die, her cousins will die, her parents, her grandmother, House Hightower, House Redwyne, countless supporters of House Blackfyre will die, several leading nobles and their heirs will die slowly or quickly from petrification if Euron and whatever he summons from the sunset sea doesn't get them first. What bothers me is how no one really talks about this.. no deep analysis into the hints that are in plain sight for such an ambitious and overreaching family.. After all, how can anyone think that they can remain unscathed and in one piece to the very end?

[@college54114]

I loved discovering you’re a fellow Turn To Stone by ELO fan! That song is gorgeous!

[@epochal1224]

Great content ❤️ 👍 Keep Going !!

[@QuinnTheGM]

Thank you! :D

[@endoftimes5297]

Nice seeing someone still talk about song of ice and fire theory's

[@FunkBastid]

Turn to Stone is banger for sure

[@shelleyj3704]

Really loving your analyses! Great work. I like that you explored some of the stone dragon/greyscale connections; I've recently been thinking a lot about how the scales of greyscale are both stone-like, and scale-like, and are visually reminiscent of dragon scales. What might be the connections to stone dragons (at Dragonstone, for one example); stone men; and stone Starks in the crypts of Winterfell?...

[@QuinnTheGM]

That’s another really interesting connection! I’d also had the thought last night that maybe Aegon himself is immune? It seems like Daemon wasn’t able to catch Greyscale from the Crabfeeder in HotD, so perhaps Valerian people have higher resistance to Greyscale.

[@cheffdonty]

RIP KING DAERON old brynden couldn't save you forever.

[@ThommyofThenn]

Wanted to thank you for clarifying something I apparently hadn't thought through correctly. For some reason I thought JonCon had suffered from greyscale for some time. I was not realising how deadly greyscale really is. I thought he had been suffering slowly from it for years, but from your video I finally realised he got it from saving Tyrion. Which of course changes the dynamic significantly

[@danieltukua4527]

If Martin is planning on having Danny burn down king landing. Having Greyscale ravage the city and her choosing to burn it down to cleanse it of Greyscale rather than her going maf would be much better and fit the “gray moral” aspect of GoT. It’d also fit the theme of history repeating itself (especially if there are three Targs who all take a dragon for their own) with a conqueror coming from forgien lands with a small fleet of ships and three dragons. Burning everything down and starting anew. It’d be reflective of Aegon building Kings Landing from nothing but mud and stone. Except for Danny she would be building from ash and stone.

[@Neumonics429]

Would be interesting if John Con takes the city and has spread grayscale, then Danny comes around and needs to burn everyone to stop the plague. It would be an interesting end to her character where she finally needs to make a decision for the greater good that isn't going to save any lives, she has to take them for the greater good. While we still get the shows ending where she burns the city.

[@Buddhistsocialist]

Love the content

[@omkarmuse4239]

I'm about 90% sure meli is going to burn Shireen to wake the dragon (Jon Snow).

[@QuinnTheGM]

I’ve got a whole video on the burning of Shireen!

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

I don't think Shireen was cured, per se. She just survived the disease and now it lies dormant within her..... We are told. And we hope.

[@cheffdonty]

t. Val

[@shelleyj3704]

This makes me think about the chicken pox/shingles disease process. You get chicken pox and (usually) survive, with some scars. But the virus is dormant inside your body (!!!) and can be triggered (often by physical or emotional stress) to come back decades later as a painful, nasty case of shingles. (I love how GRRM borrows from real life and history.)

[@johnpotts8308]

It's possible Shireen is still a carrier of Greyscale even though she has a (partial) immunity to it. "Typhoid Mary" (Mary Mallon) would be a real world example of such an individual.

[@Ashbrash1998]

@@johnpotts8308 In Mary's case, she was asymptomatic, meaning she showed no symptoms but was still sick with it

[@byjordi2185]

After watching the video and reading the comments I could imagine it like this: Joncon spreads it through the city due to its poor post war state. And when dany arrives she would notice it due to her experience with the pale mare and mayhaps decides to burn many innocent yet infected people. By that maybe a dragon gets infected and becomes the stone dragon. But im honestly always thought of JonCon triggering the wildfire when the bells ring, being an almost fully mad man due to his illness

[@RedHairedWarlord]

I think the one flaw with the shireen side of the theory is that Dragonstone is also cold and damp, and shireen has lived there her entire life

[@QuinnTheGM]

Dragonstone is damp, but not all that cold. At least when compared to the Wall!

[@RedHairedWarlord]

@@QuinnTheGM that’s true, thanks for the reply man! Really enjoyed the video

[@Jacaerys4life]

Shireen is a good kid but Stannis has got to win Edric Storm to his side, legitimize his nephew as a Baratheon and adopt him as his heir. The boy is well liked in the Stormlands so that could win a few lords of that region over. Unfortunately Shireen just isn't a good heir for the wars to come.

[@V1ert]

Marry Edric to Shireen and problem solved.

[@Jacaerys4life]

@@V1ert No that does nothing for the stigma of greyscale at all.

[@V1ert]

@@Jacaerys4life True, but I’m talking about claims, and heirs.

[@Jacaerys4life]

@@V1ert As am I. Given everything, bringing Edric into the fold and keeping marriage alliances open is the better option. I believe Val when she says poor Shireen isn't done suffering.

[@DonHbankz]

Haven’t read the books but I’m up to date with most theories haven’t heard this before and it so interesting imagine if Aegon takes the throne but unknowingly spread it when he arrives and greets the people and that’s why Dani has to burn kings landing after or before dealing with the whites. I don’t know if it just me but I always thought the awakening the dragon from stone was the fact she will burn Shireen(stone) to awaken from his sleep(death)the dragon(Jon)

[@jessesturgeon5327]

People like you intrigue me. Why watch ASOIAF theory videos if you haven't read the books? Do you plan on ever reading the books eventually?

[@DonHbankz]

@@jessesturgeon5327 Yh eventually but can’t find the time to read plus i can learn pretty much everything from videos like these so I’m really not in a rush to read them

[@VOTE_REFORM_UK]

If we’re using the show has a vague hint to what may happen in the books based on the fact that GRRM told D&D so that they could finish their show, and because Jon Con is merged with Jorah in the show and gets greyscale too, therefore that might mean that Jon Con might go to the citadel to get cured too.

[@Linus100]

Put these on Apple Podcasts please 🤲🏾🤲🏾 love the content

[@QuinnTheGM]

I’ll have to figure out how to do that!

[@candersson60]

At most, I think the possible epidemic with Shireen as patient zero will be limited but foreshadowing the chaos caused by JonCon. I don't think the climate at the Wall is what is implied as the conditions that would give rise to Greyscale (it would be way to cold and dry, rather than the damp (raw) coldness that the disease thrives in. Those who have experienced cold know what I'm talking about). What I do think is that the outbreak will happen, if it does, somewhere south of Winterfell with better suited climate conditions, say around the Neck, or White Harbor specifically by the sea, or even further south towards the Twins. I can imagine that Stannis and his crew together with Melisandre and Jon Snow encounter but fight down an outbreak at a pit-stop at White Harbor after visiting the Manderlys due to a raven, Melisandre saying that she has seen the stone dragon awakening in her visions and it needing to be fought with fire, and then shifting POV to a rabid JonCon in King's Landing as the Bells starts chiming and he loses his mind due to PTSD and his severely progressed Greyscale, with the epidemic already on it's way in the Flea Bottom district.

[@YinYoo2011]

Greyscale outbreak in a city may necessitate the use of dragon flight and fire to contain afflicted areas

[@Shaz1993xoxo]

Listening to this just made me think with the burning of Shireen to resurrect Jon - whether her Greyscale reawakens or not - it will fulfill the wake a dragon from stone aspect of the azor ahai prophecy in a roundabout way.

[@dekuuchiha9990]

With the wights spreading like a disease it seems like a little over kill to also have a greyscale outbreak. I would love to see a stonemen vs a wight however and if a stonemen could be turned.

[@adrianbergstrand9386]

Guys where can we ger that DVD of the speech?? We gotta get our hands on what has been lost which is rightfully ours!

[@Radiotomb]

"Wake Dragons from Stone" She's burned to wake Jon Targaryen.

[@carlrood4457]

I'd say Connington would be the more likely "Typhoid Mary" since he'll probably be hitting one or more major cities than anyone at the Wall would. It's winter, so getting south would take even longer.

[@markhenzel4637]

I heard a theory that Aegon might be a Blackfyre hidden by Varys because he also a Blackfyre. So when Jon Connington realized that he been made a fool by Varys and Aegon wasnt the son of his Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, he might when crazy and and spread the greyscale on purpose.

[@niofalpha]

I don't think we should be weighing a Wood's Witch's views much. I think the Shireen Greyscale could just be a red herring. I think the scouring of the shire will just be in regard to the Starks in the North. I think the White Walkers decimate the North and push south (I think the final battle being on the Trident is foreshadowed a bit in the HOTU visions). The Starks are clearly the main characters (in addition to Dany/ Tyrion), and the North is their home.

[@QuinnTheGM]

Totally agree that the Starks are an example of the scouring of the shire, but I feel like King’s Landing is the main location of the series, generally. It’s at the very least the most associated with it. It makes sense to me that there may be many Shires for Martin to scour in the (hopefully near) future.

[@unlapras9365]

The North could even be ceaded to the Others in a peace treaty and the hammer of water would be used again in the Neck to separate the North from Westeros. Maybe Jon will rule from Winterfell as the Night's King, but the other Starks will lose their home.

[@Jonathan-ug9yu]

I've thought we will see Dany burn down King's Landing after returning to find the population under a Targaryen king who they adore. I guess it could make sense for Dany to burn King's Landing to the ground if the populace has all been infected with greyscale as well

[@kyleholmes8230]

Nice theory. I like how the bells episode might actually be salvaged in the books. It would make MUCH more sense if it was joncon attacking KL. Also nice ELO shout-out. Lol

[@QuinnTheGM]

One of my favorite bands!

[@kyleholmes8230]

@@QuinnTheGM hell yeah! Jeff Lynne is the man!

[@alexmoes3225]

Oh snap!! Yes walking some dragon = get scale out break. Could also explain writers block given the covid

[@lyannatargaryen3223]

Waking dragons from stone could also refer to Dany literally hatching dragons from petrified eggs.

[@n.v.9000]

Dany burns Kings Landing because it is infested with grayscale... that would be a good explanation

[@mga3401]

turn to stone is the best elo song keep up the good work my man :,)

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

This video just saved my morning from turning to shit. Love ya, mate!

[@dustinboard6513]

Aegon VI will dip his hand in fire to cure himself of the grey scale and prove himself a dragon

[@frankmigliore9240]

Waking dragons from stone has to do with Azor Ahai, and that’s why I think Shireen will be the one to cause an outbreak. Melisandre will burn Shireen thinking that Stannis is dead, and it will actually resurrect Jon. Jon, being Azor Ahai, born beneath a bleeding star (Arthur Dayne being killed) will be reborn amidst salt and smoke (salt from Selyse’s tears, smoke from the pyre) and wake dragons from stone (the burning of Shireen does somehow contribute to a greyscale outbreak). JonCon’s greyscale is going to play a role in his story alone. He and Dany will both contribute to the burning of King’s Landing. I like to imagine that Cersei rigs the city to explode when Aegon invades, but her plan fails, however JonCon, in his crazed state, leaves the wildfire there, so that if Dany tries to invade with dragons there won’t be a city left. He will tell Dany this, and amidst her downfall, she won’t care.

[@carsonneel464]

I think that fAegon's death could trigger the bells of King's Landing to Ring and Jon Con will burn KL with Wyldefire

[@Taraquin]

9:16 Correction: the "scouring" mentioned in the end chapters of "ROTK" signifies not the impact of the War of the Ring on the Shire, but rather the purge (lead by Meriadoc Brandybuck and Peregrin Took) of evildoing outsiders (such as Sharkey/Saruman) that had corrupted the Shire. This relates to the ban That King Aragorn II Elessar puts on Men entering the Hobbit domain, to shield it from the Taint of Man; greedy and selfish ambition and manipulation. Most people would not describe a continental plague on their species as scouring/cleansing, instead a ravaging evil, although individuals of a different kind, e.g. the Children of the Forest, might see it as a an overall boon to Westeros to eradicate its human residents. IMHO, a better analogy to this Westerosi pestilential "scouring" can be found in the various ancient accounts of a vast deluge/flood that drowned all the arrogant and wicked people who sought power for themselves instead of being obedient to the divine and its moral teachings - analogous to the players of the Game of Thrones.

[@valentinpineda247]

Hey Quinn. In one of Connington's recollections of the battle of the bells, Connington thinks that he should have burned down the city like Tywin would have. Is this foreshadowing by GRRM?

[@QuinnTheGM]

I’ve got an entire section devoted to that in another video! Check out my Jon Connington character analysis.

[@valentinpineda247]

@@QuinnTheGM wow! Awesome. I will check it out. You just triggered my memory of that chapter.

[@soter8253]

Yo, something interesting that you could make a video about. Where is the sword Blackfyre. It’s still held by Bittersteel before the 3rd rebellion but then he is captured and the Blaclfyre contender is killed by the Ravens teeth. Where is the sword?

[@QuinnTheGM]

I’d love to do a video on both Blackfyre and Dark Sister, both have potentially interesting current locations.

[@spideregg]

@@QuinnTheGM You could throw in Brightroar as well. It sort of has a Chekov's Rifle feel to it.

[@mschell8022]

What do you think of Dany torching the city because of a massive greyscale outbreak? That would be interesting

[@QuinnTheGM]

Definitely a possibility!

[@unlapras9365]

Definitly. This is heavily foreshadowed by Bloodraven's use of wildfire to burn the bodies during the Spring Sickness.

[@redluke8119]

Comment for the comment throne! 7 above I love this channel

[@Samperor]

Or Shireen is the lightbringer!!! All assemble behind her!

[@renzoberzabatneyradelacruz9733]

What if Shireen is burnt because they try to stop to spreading or blame her for it ?

[@samuelhiatt9338]

Couldn't the "smoking tower" be the lighthouse in Oldtown? Maybe the Citadel is treating diseased stone men in a similar way to how they do with Jorah in the show and one escapes or infects a maester and the infection spreads from there. Or maybe even the ironborn invasion of Oldtown uses infected stone men as a siege tactic similar to how the Mongols spread the Black Plague to Europe through their use of diseased bodies.

[@QuinnTheGM]

Interesting thought, but the vision specifically mention towerS by the sea, plural. There’s only one tower in Oldtown.

[@scarymonsterzz]

JonCon being to one to lose his mind over the bells is so obvious. You can tell people who think things are gonna go down like the show have never picked up the books lmao. Dany may still burn King's Landing for one reason or another but I REFUSE to believe it will be over something so dumb.

[@benlouis4655]

The people of Westeros rlly can’t catch a break can they lol

[@rodrikofharlaw6848]

" If he were to change it wouldnt be based on real events" uhhhh I dont know about that. GRRM made a HUGE deal about covid in his blogs it would certainly impact his thought process of the story going forward like any outside impact on his indecisive and his one word after another progression of writing style. I mean itd be easy to blame his lack of progress on covid changing his mind about the storyline.

[@rodrikofharlaw6848]

@Immortal Science of Hauntology Oh yes but I feel like it just made things even worse. He claimed it forced him to work on the book more but I dont think it was entirely because of the isolation.

[@SkywayFishers]

I've noticed a massive hole in your theory: the best ELO song is Telephone Line, not Turn to Stone

[@user-op6kt8pg9y]

With the whole Shireen thing I actually think the opposite, I think the grey scale will become active again and she'll infect a few wildings and this will lead to the burning, this could be because it could give the red woman an excuse or reason to burn her especially when comes back, if he comes back to the wall and that way most of the wildlings would be in agreement with the decision to burn Shireen because I don't think they'd let the red woman burn a child in front of them otherwise

[@witz]

GRRM only stands to benefit from current events and its reflection on the story. recently read the stand and boy does that hold up especially now

[@queenxx1690]

I think there is foreshadowing for Daenerys burning bodies and saving the rest like she is doing it in Meeren during pale mare plaque she will have to burn city to save rest of 7 kingdoms or it will be Faegon that will go mad because of grayscale he will find wildfire and use it

[@jeangale6914]

Grey Scale + Wights = Shit hits the fan.

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

Imagine necromancy and grey scale every time you kill someone thevrise up a d continue the infection

[@TheCronesEye]

@wolfsbanealphas617 Dear God, that’s brilliant. And also, *hush face!* That sounds almost *too* deliciously scary! 😱😉👍

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

@@TheCronesEye they might happen and it could be a mercy compared to the lovecraft endgame euron has in store

[@TheCronesEye]

@@wolfsbanealphas617 Word. 🙌

[@siamihari8717]

Imagine if the High Sparrow lowered the already low Hygiene standards of Westeros by idk... making bathing unnatural or only allowing bathing durring specific religious ceremonies

[@ladyvimto5546]

I’m having hard time with the Barristan betrayal. Daenerys legitimacy is unquestionable and she has literal representation of that in the form of her dragons. I can’t see him leaving her service for young griff. Also why is it so widely held view that Dany and Young griff will be in conflict? Dany is clearly ready for the other two heads of the dragon: “The dragon has three heads. There are two men in the world who I can trust, if I can find them. I will not be alone then. We will be three against the world, like Aegon and his sisters”.

[@unlapras9365]

I don't buy the Barristan betrayal either. He could have betrayed Robert to support the true Targaryen heir and yet stayed loyal. Furthermore he's the one who ended the Blackfyre male line so he will probably not trust a pretender who is backed by the Golden Company.

[@kaseybones]

Dany doesn’t attack kings landing because of the bells lol

[@drakengarfinkel3133]

I think the Grey Plague is an abandoned plotline and-due to certain recent events-can no longer be included in the books.

[@nikhilarora2339]

Sleeping Dragon - Jon Snow

[@Troyless]

This is an interesting theory but I think a major issue here is you conflating The Grey Plague with Greyscale, they're supposedly related but they're not quite the same

[@QuinnTheGM]

I’m not, calling it that was mostly for the thumbnail.

[@ryanorielly5617]

I just don’t see grayscale being a big factor in the last 2 books. Awaking stone dragons from the earth I interpret as Jon being resurrected after shireen is burned.

[@LuizVieiraPintoNeto]

Lord Jon Connington was exiled by the Mad King himself. Not Robert… right? 5:11

[@QuinnTheGM]

Dismissed as Hand by Aerys, exiled by Bobby.

[@jessesturgeon5327]

What real world events did you mean?

[@QuinnTheGM]

Certain pandemics from the last few years.

[@micahmcfadden8082]

Jon conn was exiled by Arys not Robert for losing Robert in the battle of the bells

[@QuinnTheGM]

My mistake. I meant exiled by Aerys, and lands were stripped by Robert.

[@finnlilienthal8408]

honest just think the stone dragon just is dead jon snow

[@QuinnTheGM]

I’m not partial to that interpretation, it specifically says waking a dragon from stone, not just waking a dragon. But it could go either way!

[@thekittenthatwantschicken8018]

hold up there's still people that think georgie is gonna finish these books?

[@QuinnTheGM]

I think he’ll finish Winds at some point. Whole series seems less likely.

[@pwnersmanual]

Telephone Line is a better ELO song

[@QuinnTheGM]

Another great one! But nothing beats Turn to Stone.

[@umwha]

We know that Shireen will be burned but nobody has ever suggested that it’s likely Val and the wildlings who will do it, as they do think shireen must be killed, likely through burning. With Jon dead the wildlings will rebel as they kneeled to Jon and do not consider their contract transferable to the next lord commander . They will take the nobles captive, including Shireen and Melisandre. Selyse will declare that she is the most senior here so she will take rule of the wall , along with the new Lord Commander until Stannis returns. The wildlings will not respect her status however, and will instead have more respect for Melisandre due to her magic. The wildlings will decide to burn Shireen, and Melisandre, realizing she has no way to avert this , will agree to it and try to use it as a kingsblood sacrifice possible in order to redirect Jon. Therefore it sort of is Mel who burns Shireen but she was also forced . Additionally, it is possible the Wildling’s may want to slay Ghost as well, as they are scared of dire wolves and especially a warg with no master. Mel may co opt this as well to the burning of Shireen to resurrect Jon.

[@scarymonsterzz]

I think this sequence of a events makes a lot of sense. I can't really see book Stannis ordering the burning of his daughter and only heir. And I'm also not sure if Melissandra would do something so rash without her king's permission. But if chaos erupts and the wildlings force her hand she may decide to use her king's blood anyway.

[@Ashbrash1998]

I don't think Ghost will be burned or killed as Ghost likely has Jon's consciousness in him right now like other wargs. I can see Mel burning Shireen as a way to being Jon back, but I doubt the Wildings will like her because she did burn their king Mance

[@umwha]

@@Ashbrash1998 Yes, Ghost will have Jons consciousness in him, but thats why he has to be killed - to release Jons Consciousness to be rebound to his body. Much like the ritual that Mirri Maz Duur appeared to do with Khal Drogo - where his horse was slain over him, so the life of the horse could go into him. Many have specualted this ritual is a recollection of a real Skinchanger revival technique used in ancient times.

[@sleepy4744]

i think the burning of shireen will resurrect jon. a dragon woken from stone in a fucked up enough way to fulfill a game of thrones prophecy lmao

[@namikushman2944]

Theres voice commentary layered in top of other voice commentary, very hard to understand what you’re saying - also I don’t think danyers is amazing and I doubt shel’ll leave this world in such a callus way

[@PainfullySubjective]

brah, can you pls fix your talking volume and/or mic?! you generally talk at a very low volume so much so that i have to turn my volume all the way up to hear what you're saying and for two, you sometimes straight up scream in the mic. example: 8:53 you're talking volume is so low and it gets lower and lower as you reach the phrase "the sacking of the Shire" and then at 9:09 you straight up scream "For those who are not familiar with it" the content of your videos is rather good but this constant fluctuation in volume really takes away from the quality of it all

[@mar7898]

you could of say that there is a spoiler for the House of the Dragon series Now you spoiler the Dance of the Dragons with Demon Blackfire and King Daeron 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

[@QuinnTheGM]

Different Daemon and Daeron, over seventy years later. Nothing to do with HotD.

[@mar7898]

@@QuinnTheGM I know and I know the difference between Damon and Damon Blackfire. you Spoiler Everything 😤😤🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

[@theprimo100]

@@mar7898 ...What?

[@Sockimus]

Dragon awakened by stone is Jon. Also, as poorly written as the back half of Season 8 is, the fact you don't think it makes sense for at least the show verse detracts from the rest of your great content, because it sounds more or less like you're a surface level thinker and can't look at it on a deeper level.