The Sad Finite Life Of Film

[@noneofyourbusiness4616]

This is the second video of yours in a row I've watched which is all about how everything is dying and futile. Maybe you are depressed. I know that applies to me; not trying to claim superior mental health. We are all dying and everything dies, true, but focusing on it makes it really hard to live.

[@wdavidwoods]

Regarding Moonwalk One (such a great film IMHO), most of the source negatives for that film were discovered at the national archives during research to make the 2019 film "Apollo 11". The film had been shot in 65-mm Todd-AO widescreen format by MGM cinematographers. When the uncut negatives were discovered, they were scanned with a specially-built scanner. Therefore, it ought to be possible to remaster much of Moonwalk One.

[@FranLab]

I am aware of all that, but a print of a copyrighted film in a private collection cannot be a restoration project for the owner of that copy. Suffice to say, makes no difference to my print.

[@EvelynLogan-od7zc]

David is that you?🤨

[@sguttag]

If you haven't tried it, a product called Film Guard by Film-Tech seems to, in addition to cleaning and filling base scratches, slow down VS (significantly). You are correct, that once the VS starts, there is no stopping it there is only slowing and working with it. It is probably worth your time and money to give at least a reel or two a try. The people at Film-Tech are also into archiving/transferring and may also have suggestions what works best to preserve the film/slow down the degradation. What makes nitrate film so dangerous is that you have a decent quantity of it in one place. Combine that with its age so it has likely started to break down. And, the big one, its use puts it in front of a fire (carbon arc) or a hot lamp (xenon or halogen, depending on the projector size and intended use).

[@RinoaL]

Now that I live in Philadelphia, if you found me a commercial fridge, I could freeze and store some rare items like this. I have a smaller commercial fridge that I might modify to vent air slowly to remove acids.

[@FranLab]

You do not want to freeze film.

[@RinoaL]

@@FranLab Doesn't have to be set to freezing.

[@rileyfaelan]

One day, there will be a reboot of MacGyver in which she will make things go boom not with a Swiss Army Knife but with her well-equipped handbag of common cosmetic chemicals.

[@kevinstringer7186]

Fran, if you contact Noel Cronin at Talking Pictures in UK I'm sure he may be able to advise or definably be interested in your conservation issues.

[@EvelynLogan-od7zc]

Kevin

[@seanrh4294]

My German Grandpa made movies since the 1930s and we had them converted to digital by a company before they got really bad. My grandpa was a smart man, he sealed the metal film cans with a grey, very sticky tape and that seems to have helped preserve them. Some from the 50s are still good enough to be played on the projector.

[@DanRyan-v5y]

Is there an inert atmosphere that could stop it turning?

[@RinoaL]

I think at this point all we can do is freeze it and digitize it

[@KeritechElectronics]

I wouldn't - it will go through glass transition in the process, becoming (reversibly) very brittle and prone to damage.

[@RinoaL]

@@KeritechElectronics Not going too cold is implied lol.

[@jeffkleist9679]

The problem was that in the mid 1970s they decided that most movies were disposable and so they use cheaper film stocks, 10 years later of course the video boom began, and cable TV was blowing up, and all of a sudden these movies have value again. But a lot of the short films like I've seen you have and Post were typically designed to be thrown out for advertising purposes or going into school district Archives. No one intended that somebody would be making fun of them on rifftrax 30 years later :-) I will tell you that every single Hollywood film is still backed up to film because it is still the most stable medium of storage. In fact when Kodak was going to discontinue making motion picture film they actually got together and made a guaranteed order specifically to make sure that it's stayed open

[@EvelynLogan-od7zc]

Jeff

[@rayrooney4656]

Not quite. The downfall started in the 50 with Kodacolor. It was cheaper than existing processes. Cinecolor and Technicolor used metal dyes. Kodacolor used vegetable dyes. Nobody cared at the time. Films were used for a couple of months in theaters then trashed. A few might circulate for a couple of years but permanence was never considered. Then TV got color. Again, CHEAP was the first consideration. Technicolor was expensive and complex. As movies lost out to TV, cost became ever more important. Technicolor was abandoned in 1972. By then people were discovering that vegetable dyes reacted with residual chemicals in the emulsion, especially the fixer. (More on that later.) By 1978 it was a problem with the original negatives too. Kodak improved the process later on but fading is still an issue. Fuji was slightly different but not much better. Now we have issues with b&w prints. The residual fixer in poorly processed films eats away at the base and causes "vinegar syndrome" where the backing shrinks, buckles, and crumbles. Estar, a polyester similar to Mylar, was adopted later after proving itself in tape recording. It won't go bad like acetate but is rare, mostly used in the now-extinct rental market. Color will still fade. Technicolor restarted their process in the 90s for archive work but the only prints available are their old pre-1972 ones. They used metal dyes and a non-photographic printing system so they don't fade.

[@raygunsforronnie847]

Cellulose nitrate film stock is basically gun cotton, but transparent. As projection stock it was the reason projection booths burned up and regulations for theater projection booths became stringent. Carbon arc lamps were hot and if the film stopped moving it was a certain fire. Film emulsion is organic gelatin, an animal byproduct. Gelatin is subject to fungal and bacterial damage. Silver nitrate is fairly stable but the multiple layers of dyes, masks, and filters in color emulsions degrade with time, temperature, and humidity regardless of film base.

[@littleshopofelectrons4014]

It seems to be almost as difficult to preserve information as it is to preserve physical objects. Just two random examples that occurred to me are the films "Ben Hur" and "Spartacus" although there are countless other excellent films both big and small. Just imagine the time, effort, and artistry that went into making these movies. It is incomprehensible that some day these movies may be lost to degradation. I know that Hollywood stores master copies in a salt mine where conditions are close to ideal but this custodial care is only going to be around as long as Hollywood wants to spend money on preservation. Knowing how big business is always looking for places to cut costs, I am not sanguine.

[@juvenciorocha9736]

I LOVE YOU FRAN

[@richardbrobeck2384]

I know I have a bunch of film too ! I worry about it I have about 20 films !

[@EvelynLogan-od7zc]

Richard

[@harrypitts7389]

Haha I'm sorry to hear about deterioration. I live in Hawaiian RAIN forest. Very humid. Its hard on everything. Electronics comes here to die. Quickly. Can you lower the humidity to 2 percent? Store film in nitrogen? Libraries use nitrogen in the stacks to preserve books.

[@jamesphillips2285]

The infuriating part is how copyright now lasts longer than common fixations!

[@ghostmantagshome-er6pb]

I like Periscope Films channel for this reason. I just saw your channel mentioned in their comments.

[@user-vg4cg4uw9c]

A fire at Ansel Adams Yosemite studio destroyed about one third of his portfolio in 1937. The glass-plate negatives of his early work had nitrate emulsions.

[@FranLab]

Collodion silver process. But it was probably the ether and other solvents that did the damage. I did a video about it - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5m6eaOZhauaidk

[@hotpuppy1]

That's the way it goes. They were not made to last forever. Nitrate films are very flammable. Acetate doesn't last forever. My wife worked for a university special collection library and they had the same issues with still films decomposing. All you can do is scan them before they are too bad to scan and hope that the digital formats continue. Some have not like Kodak's. You have to keep up with it. Even regular plastics and vinyls are decomposing.

[@filepz629]

❤️‍🔥FRAN❤️‍🔥

[@TheGreatAtario]

There have to be some hardcore film collectors on KZbin. Maybe you could collab with some of them?

[@jsl151850b]

*{TL/DR}* DVD+Rs too. During 2009 I recorded several SNLs to recordable DVD+R. 16 years later one particular disk wouldn't play. I saw files on it when examined but audio and video desynched, apparently playing at different speeds so an offset would fix it for only a few minutes. The solution was to make an ISO of a copy of the bad disk (with fault) and play THAT into a digitizer into an MP4. Fixed! So far this has only worked once. 🖖

[@videogeekin]

Recently I was thinking the same thing about VHS cassette tape movies.

[@BlackDragon-xn2ww]

pbs run a film of film fire back in early 1900 lost were 1.000's of old film stock I took all my film stock and filmed it on a cam them burned it all to cd's so it saved for now but it only last for so long been looking for another solution but nothing has come along did put some of it on sd cards but it has data loss over time so it not reliable either

[@leonardtreadway7082]

Happy Thanksgiving!👍👍✌️

[@EvelynLogan-od7zc]

Leonard 🤨

[@anthonytidey2005]

I understand that nitrate film was taken by munition makers during WW1 to make munitions.

[@goofyrulez7914]

Remember when they used to say CDs/DVDs would last forever and know we know they too "rot" and eventually become unreadable. It seems like any data needs to be re-archived periodically or it will be lost forever.

[@FranLab]

Optical media gets 10 years, then all bets are off. Writable optical media even less.

[@DanRyan-v5y]

Put it all on papyrus, you know it makes sense

[@goofyrulez7914]

@@DanRyan-v5y - LOL! I suggest carving it in clay tablets. 🙂

[@jeffkleist9679]

@@goofyrulez7914 even modern movies that are finished digitally are put out to film because it is still the most stable archival medium. Hard drives and tape are typically re-copied every 3 to 5 years

[@prestonfreeman1967]

Do an episode of "weird stuff with fran"...on lost films, dead letter mail, and stuff like that? You're cool to hear talk about interesting topics. I'd love a deep dive on your classic guitar pick collection alone. Some of your most watchable content is when you tear down obscure tech or toys. Stuff people probably had as kids and then lost, but always wanted to break open to know about...etch a sketch, stretch armstrong...inside stuff as a kid was magic!

[@prestonfreeman1967]

Sorry your old film is degrading so quickly. My first tech job involved digitally scanning old deed microfiche from Grant County, Oregon back in 2000. I learned a bunch about "archival quality" in the digital age. Film can seem so stable for so long folks forget how quick it can go bad. I scanned rolls that seemed to turn while pulling from the box. I mourn your losses.

[@EvelynLogan-od7zc]

Hello 👋 is that you??🤨

[@DimasFajar-ns4vb]

yeah more bridge or railroad will be amazing

[@shawnlennon1947]

All the turtles saved by the invention of that stinky plastic ooze 😂

[@JeffreyDanko-x3s]

Fantastic video. Watch you as much as I can. Thank you for being so precise. 15:45

[@EvelynLogan-od7zc]

Jeffrey 😊

[@Doctor_MB]

KZbin is awesome. I see this video and search Fran's channel and see her DIY film to digital transfer technique and then go down the rabbit hole of the many ways others capture film to digital, some of which appear to use expensive gear. A couple hours ago, I was watching people using film projector tube audio amps as guitar amps.