The Sad State of 3DS Capture (and a couple ideas on how to possibly fix it)

Want to capture 3DS footage in 2022?
Good luck, pal.

[@zebraterabyteztproductions9595]

*"They're British."*

[@boblers]

The game card solution seems to be the most feasible - I recall Nintendo themselves using a capture device like that during E3 treehouse demonstrations. Or at least, it looked like those devices were using the card slot.

[@AppLHD]

Dunno if we're talking about the same device, but 3DS Dev kits actually had this capability. They were Wii sized boxes that had outs to a 3ds system. Only difference was the 3DS system was nothing more than a controller. Sure it had both screens working but everything was actually running in this box. Linus Tech Tips has a video showcasing this device if you wanna see it for yourself. Also Demo Kiosk's had the same thing where a 3DS would be wired up and showing the top screen on the kiosk screen...but I have no idea if they used the same hardware the devkit used.

[@StickyPuddingg]

@@AppLHD i believe the biggest issue is that the 3ds motherboard has no capture/ projecting hardware the same way a switch lite has no way to do it (bc the motherboard literally lacks it). The development version of the 3ds likely had them for demonstration purposes but for budgeting reason it was probably removed in mass production of the system

[@PabloMK7]

Hello! 3DS homebrew dev here! All the ideas you mentioned at the end of the video have already been discussed before. The SD card idea can be discarded, as it's just not fast enough. The SD hardware in the 3DS is pretty slow and that's one of the reasons the existing capture solutions go through wifi. The audio jack is directly wired to a digital to analog converter at 44kHz. No way that is enough for streaming video at all. However, there is hope on using the gamecard slot. But don't expect it to be usable at the same time as gamecard games. Also there still needs to be something encoding and compressing the video on the 3ds side, and only the new models are fast enough to do so. Also since most of the hardware is disabled in DS mode, it wouldn't be usable there.

[@dabhdude]

Hi! To respond to your comment, I had no idea that the SD Card had such little bandwidth on the 3DS. I didn't expect something super fast, mind you, but still. As for the audio jack, I kinda figured it was a long shot, and I knew that going into the idea. Part of it had to do with simply looking at what ports were natively available on the 3DS, as well as finding out about the DS TV Out project while editing this video. I guess I had hoped that creating something similar to that, but using software for routing would help the idea. That and it'd be the only one to be entirely free. All you'd need is a 3.5mm cable, likely to go to a line in or DAC on your computer. Again, far fetched idea, but worth a shot to mention it regardless. As for the game card, the idea seems to be the most divisive for sure, with some people saying it's a great idea, while others say it's absolutely ridiculous. I won't be surprised if it can't work in DS mode, at least not without some extreme difficulty. Still seems like the old 3DS may be left out of this idea depending on how things go, which is a bit of a shame. As for game cards not working while using a capture game card, I think that's more or less fine, though might require a bit of advanced preparation for certain games (transferring saves and such). Most anyone invested enough to want to do 3DS capture will know or not have a difficult time softmodding the 3DS so they can play their own backups in lieu of the game cards.

[@shadowofchaos725]

@@dabhdude hi. Hardware dev here and I'm 4 months late to the discussion. I might not be a 3DS dev but I don't think you got how deeply unviable what the 3DS dev above me was making out the audio jack to be a video out to be. I think what you're seeing as the "worth a mention" is actually in the realm of ridiculous once you see the math. While this isn't exactly a super good way of comparison it'll show people unfamiliar with hardware how inherently limiting the boards and peripherals chosen actually are. A 3.5mm jack really sends much less data than you would think. 44.1khz audio for 5 min uncompressed is about 50mb (being recorded not sent). In comparison a 240p video uncompressed for 5 min is probably in the realm of 5GB. A group of 10 x 10 pixels even in compressed quality is magnitude orders higher than the headphone jack. It's pretty much impossible. I mean you stated that you don't know the technology nor are you a software/hardware guy so that's why I'm letting you know about that idea being astronomically unviable. 3DS capture is going to either have to be through that wireless interface or it's going to have to be through something like the cartridge. That last idea is the most viable option out of what you mentioned. But at the end of the day as a person that interacts with hardware designers and techs... The attempt to circumvent the simplest solution is going to make the alternative a lot more expensive and a lot less satisfactory. 3DS capture boards are inherently the simplest and best solution because it just taps into the circuit boards already designed to output video to the two screens already. You're not going to best that in terms of quality and simplicity. Don't remember if Loopy is getting back into the business as of 2021. But Katsukitty? Good riddance. I've seen too many horror stories about the quality of their products and how fast they burn out. I've had a capture board from Loopy since 2012 and it's outlasting the 3DS that it's installed in. I recommend looking into Loopy capture boards to see if they're updating their service or if the New3DS/XL boards are a thing now.

[@cheeseburger7889]

@@shadowofchaos725 im going to start hard modding my 3ds can i get your discord so i can ask some questions

[@PigletTube]

Can TWLPatcher by Sono use a patch to enable DS(i) Mode capture and you can convert 3DS Game Cards to .CIA to record with the Game Card slot.

[@PigletTube]

And the Game Card Slot used to use serial bus technology for DS Game Card Extensions that is SOO Cool! (17 Pins in total)

[@revtilltheend]

I’m glad that you made this video. As some who wants to record handheld games on authentic hardware, there are very little options to do it and may require to give up my kidney just to have good footages. I just hope there will be better solutions for this problem or just restocking the capture cards

[@varietygamer95]

Things have changed since this video went up. Loopy finally perfected a capture board for the New 3DS XL in December 2022 and ran a test market. They were sold out until May 2023, when I could finally get one, arriving in July. It records via USB C and I figured out OBS is the best way to capture footage of the screens. I felt so lucky to finally have this thing after being forced to miss it for over five years! I was out of a job when the Nintendo Creators Program finally shut down, an event NO ONE saw coming. Loopy also still makes capture boards for the original Nintendo DS but the problem there is it doesn't record audio. I've tried an AUX cable and a noise isolator, neither of them worked for me. Granted, the 3DS capture board costs as much as the current Elgato but I was also saving up money to be ready for the day I could get my hands on one. I guess we'll see how the state of 3DS capture plays out going forward, huh?

[@GLXY23]

yeah loopy is a godsend, i have mines modded and it works perfectly

[@scarletinods6275]

I honestly think that something like what you're talking about is being silently developed. What do I mean by that? Well, a few years after the DSi stopped receiving "security updates" (AKA blocking any homebrew and exploits), a person came out with information that they've been holding onto for a LONG time and it was a way to crack into the DSi, he just didn't want to say it during the DSi's life cycle or else his method would've been nuked by a system update. So when he revealed it, it was WAY AFTER the DSi stopped receiving updates. SO, Nintendo didn't have an excuse to just make an update YEARS after they stopped giving them to the DSi just so they could patch an exploit. As to what this could mean for 3DS capture, especially with the methods you brought up, anything that needs to be inserted would need to be TRICKED into giving out video feed and Nintendo MAY try to block it in any means necessary through a system update. So, I feel like somebody has the solution but they're waiting for Nintendo to COMPLETELY drop the 3DS until that time comes. But why would Nintendo try to stop this? Well, let's be honest they're not very keen on mods with their games or even fan games in general, so I feel like Nintendo's power is essentially what is scaring people away from making a capture method, at least for now.

[@dabhdude]

The biggest problem in my mind is WHEN does the 3DS stop receiving updates? I remember a while back everyone thought the Wii U had stopped receiving updates, only to receive what's at this point the most recent one, and the homebrew community there had a small panic for a couple hours. Nintendo is remarkably unpredictable in that regard. If I had to venture a guess, though, I'd say sometime in 2023 or 2024, since that's when the eshop will be closed on the 3DS.

[@scarletinods6275]

@@dabhdude yeah, I think maybe a year or so after the eshop closes on 3DS, somebody might come through with a method, unless Nintendo pulls something out of there ass and just make another firmware update like with the wiiu. Just hoping that something like what they had at the Nintendo treehouses where it seems like you can just plug it into the 3DS and stream video in an instant. Probably like how you described the action replay, where it’s just the game cart with a bulky part sticking out and being able to connect it through usb.

[@SuperM789]

i don't think nintendo is against people getting 3ds capture, but they patch the methods because they can also be used for piracy (which is their actual concern)

[@Kobun42]

As someone who's really wanted to have a reliable way to record 3DS footage from real hardware (mostly for Tomodachi Life and some NDS games) I've been real disappointed with how dried-up the 3DS capture market is, especially considering that it really shouldn't be this hard considering the current state of the 3DS. (Doesn't help that I haven't seen one that has a selling point of supporting the NEW 3DS XL either. Just the original.) I also really don't want to send my 3DS out to some Joe Schmoe out there in who-knows-where because they could do ANYTHING with my 3DS, and I don't want to solder crap to my 3DS and risk breaking it either, so a good easy solution would really be nice, even if it's just wishful thinking and it turns out to be virtually impossible that way. I also really don't want to bother with emulators because not only do I see no need to considering I own the real deal but also because there are most likely gonna be some things that I can't emulate properly (microphone, gyroscope, etc.)

[@THEREALVITO]

I remember when i once went to the Kid Icarus Uprising multiplayer tournament Nintendo was hosting for the launch of the game. They had these 3DSs connected to small tvs above the player somehow. Nintendo obviously had its own methods and I wish they released a device at some point, EVEN if it was just top screen. One decent method of recording DS games at least is, if you have a hacked Wii U and a normal capture card, you can emulate basically any DS game you want with the benefit of this method being that the gamepad is a good substitute for touch based games, as well as any DS games that were played on its side like Brain Age.

[@hahasamian8010]

I think that regardless of what your software solution is (Wi-Fi, headphone>AV jack, gamecard/SD slot), the 3DS will struggle to encode the video fast enough to have good results. This is probably why they just chose Wi-Fi, I could be wrong though

[@ModzvilleUSA]

3ds capture cards are readily available from Optimize out of Japan. I just installed the kit for New 3ds XL and did a video of the install. Software is still working perfectly fine as well. I even got it working on my TV using my steam deck and used an Xbox One controller via input redirect. I offer install services as well as many others but it is pricey as the N3ds kits are brutal to install. Hopefully we get an Open source option at some point

[@Greyhoundsniper]

Holding out for a n2ds xl ver

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

@@Greyhoundsniper this

[@DaisakoKunandra]

Something that I always wondered about was perhaps a 3DS consolizer that could go into a Wii U gamepad housing that would output both screens as separate webcam devices either USB like the Vita or HDMI and use the touchscreen from the Wii U gamepad. With that a homebrew app could maybe just dump the frames to the ports and it could read inputs and put them into proper memory locations.

[@Roigavtuber]

I heard that the company was not closed because of the revision of Japanese law, but because keity produced a lot of defective products through proper work and repaired them free of charge, resulting in a loss and bankruptcy.

[@notDmanTV]

so for drawing tablets, you need to disable windows ink through the regedit. theres a guide for it online that id have to refind, but ive been playing pokemon ranger with a drawing tablet, and while it is awkward and cramps my hand faster than the original, it still seems to be working perfectly. Also delfino customs seems to be selling capture cards + installations (and prebuilt systems) but i personally dont have the capital myself so i havent checked it out. still a pretty sad state for one of the best console lines out there.

[@Exentio]

Man, I've been thinking about this same exact issue too lately. In my opinion and with my intermediate knowledge of electronics and software (and the 3DS software), the only possibility that isn't streaming is an internal capture card: you can't just send any kind of data through an SD slot, same for the audio jack and cartridge slot, the 3DS kernel has no idea how to do any to that. What we need is a simple, open-source hardware capture card that can be put together easily, honestly I'm fine even with having to desktop-ify the console if there are no alternatives, 3DSes are so cheap nowadays that I could just grab a second one for streaming One acceptable middle ground is some kind of emulator plugin to use a console as a controller, including the touchscreen, but it'd still require some degree of video streaming to make it useful, even though just one of the displays would be enough I hope to see something from this scene because I'd love to stream DS games in the future

[@naenae30k21]

wdym consolify??

[@frostiikin9893]

The gamecard solution is probably the most feasible. I'd imagine it'd just be a fairly simple modification of the existing streaming homebrew to make it run through a physical cable that's inside the game card slot instead of the internet, and it's not like you can't just run anything you'd need a gamecard for through an SD card, even DS games can be run off of an SD through the use of TWiLight menu. Only potential issue is i'm not entirely sure what the write speed of gamecard slot is, if it's not fast enough, that could end up being a real problem.

[@17.2.6]

I'm glad someone finally brought this up

[@Grant_Scarboro]

Won't somebody eventually reverse-engineer the Katsukity capture board?

[@RobustChicken]

Sorry im pretty late, to answer your question reverse engineering takes a very long time and effort to do. If someone were to start now, expect to see something maybe around 2026 or later (don’t trust me on that I have basic knowledge of it). Reverse engineering is also very expensive. It’s a very good thought though

[@JJSquirtle]

5:55 method 3 is made much easier to record if you have a cardboard box and either the official 3ds kickstand or more something to seat the middle of the 3ds on. You punch a hole in the cardboard box where the camera will peep in, cut out the flap facing you, and seat the 3ds on the stand line everythind up, hit record, and now you can see the screen through the camera's view and play in a sort of darkroom that prevents glare with stability

[@The_Gamer_91]

Ooo...now this is an interesting video idea.

[@izzyhope58]

Well Loopy is working on making a new version of there board for new 3ds xl. So once that releases its basically problem solved, back to normal. It's being worked on, it just takes time (of course)

[@varietygamer95]

I hope it’ll also be mass produced. The Nintendo Creators Program stopped me from getting back into LPing, and when it finally ended, I was out of a job about a year and a half at the time. Then two months after that, the 3DS capture card business went under. That’s gotta be a combination of rotten luck and a pretty safe assumption: NO ONE could foresee the Nintendo Creators Program ending! You can’t predict something like that

[@ThomasFan1945ProductionsTM]

There are Optimize capture boards available that you can shop for overseas and hopefully soon, Loopy will have 3DS capture boards available again in the next of coming months or less. Both of which shouldn't cost as much. I recommend making a follow up to this video. As for Nintendo DS, there are capture cards for the Nintendo DS capture boards available from Loopy rn. I bought the Capture Card Install Kit recently and I modded the console myself. It turned out to be a success. I posted a video on my channel demonstrating the new footage.

[@TheGlitchyMario]

Loopy cards are now readily available at ok prices, and I hope eventually his boards will become open source someday

[@ZoobiethePopplio]

I'd like a capture method through the charging port or just a homebrew app that records the screen to the 3DS photo/video gallery

[@ThomasFan1945ProductionsTM]

Loopy recently has setted up a New 3DS XL Capture Board stock and is currently available at 3DS Capture. You may want to check in stock rn.

[@Operator0G]

I'm thankful thta i still have my 3ds capture lol. the downside is that there is so many 3ds and ds titles that i want to record on the channel

[@TheEclipsedLock]

I was able to use a new Loopy capture card, bless their soul. It was a simple installation. ...unless you want to solder audio. Good god that was incredibly stressful, but I did it. I really need to improve how I can solder things lol

[@essayharper]

On new consoles I believe streaming has much improved, now using snickerstream you can get up to 60 FPS in menus and 30 FPS in game

[@FennekinFox326]

Another victory for emulation. Mostly

[@ArtisanAspirationWorks]

What I plan to do is put CFW on a 2nd New 2DS/3DS system. Then moving the save data with my cartridge saves, and reserve GBA gameplay for PC, but DS is in that weird spot where it definitely needs something on most PCs.

[@DE23]

Since the DSi has an SD Card slot, DS Mode probably would be able to use an SD Card slot based solution

[@SporeLP360]

All three of your "Wishlist" methods at the end would require some kind of hardmod in order for the video data to be send through those ports, since Nintendo didn't design these ports to magically tap into the video feed. Even the "recently" discovered TV Out mod for the DS lite requires some additional hardware. And if you don't want to have a ribbon cable + pcb sticking out of the front of your DS lite, then you need to desolder small components and solder wires to test points on the motherboard of the DS lite to enable video output through the headphone jack. Now to respond to the other comments under this video: Capture boards are rare and expensive to find and even if you bought one you cannot simply look at the board, copy the design, populate it with the same chips, resistors, etc. and expect your new board to work. In order to reverse engineer the capture boards, it would probably require a lot of probing, signal testing and destroying the PCB in order to know where the traces go and to which points on the PCB they connect. The only people who definitely know how they work are Loopy and Katsukity, but sadly neither of them made their projects open source. There are however hardware devs out there who did look into making a capture card alternative. At the end of 2019 a hardware dev by the name furrtek did announce that he is looking into a 3ds HDMI output mod, but later said he's dropping the project because he was contacted by another individual who was looking into this aswell and that we should wait for an announcement from "them" (no name given). So either this individual is waiting for the system to go EoS before they want to release their mod, or maybe they got approached by Nintendo. We can't say for sure, but I haven't read anything about someone looking into a new hardware mod ever since.

[@dabhdude]

I vaguely remember the thing with furrtek, but I have no clue what happened with any of it, especially since it's been a while. It'd be a shame if another good project idea died because Nintendo showed up. One thing I neglected to mention was the thing you'd see in Nintendo's Treehouse Events where you'd see that they've stuck something into the game card slot in order to get video. Mind you, I have no clue whether those are standard 3DS systems, or if they've been modded internally somehow.

[@LEGONASCAR]

Recording with a camera is actually pretty effective if you play with a controller. I've done it

[@hikaru9624]

The odd thing about the capture card method, as fantastic as it is, only works on windows 7. Wirelessly does work at the very least. A device would be cool but it needs to see the video signal.

[@sandroxfg]

What about DS emulation on the Steamdeck? Has anyone got experience with using the touchscreen?

[@HarukaMorishima]

3ds boards are still available at their optimize website, just need to find someone to install it for you or do it yourself.

[@LynnMooney]

:) This is what my hubby and I did with our 3DS LL system and ordered from optimize website. The transaction went smooth and it took about two and a half weeks for the part to be delivered once it shipped.

[@lpe67]

A possible idea could be streaming emulator footage to a 3ds and then sending inputs on the 3ds to the emulator then capture the emulator footage tho i doubt the capability of using it in bottom screen focused rythm games or if this idea is bad itself

[@marvelthehedgehog]

I understand

[@MashuClips]

I tried using the capturing over wifi, and it also slows down your gameplay, not just the recording.

[@TheAnimeexpansion]

I may be British but I do my best to install 3DS capture cards

[@DE23]

I have a laptop with a touchscreen and even that feels wierd on emulator due to not having a stylus

[@treypop123]

I think the best solution would be an opensource 3DS capture card

[@LadyNicola]

I just bought a head strap for my phone. Fingers crossed.

[@0aleolijest678]

I agree so bad I want to make my own KZbin video about it.

[@Dahlia-kz8oz]

I am so mad I wanted to play a mod and record it but I don't want to play it on a computer 😭

[@lordshulker]

Merki still instals capture cards for the new nintendo 2ds xl and the og ds

[@blakegriplingph]

The fact that console modding is outlawed in Japan meant that the guy who used to offer 3DS capture card modding services could no longer do so without being prosecuted by the Gestapo there, just goes to show how backwards-minded Japanese corpos are despite being so advanced and innovative in a lot of ways.

[@tarotsport1451]

Another issue with emulation that is universal to basically all handhelds is that it also feels worse to play, with some exception you’re either completely or partial ruining your experience by using keyboard of console. Play an SNES game on Keyboard and come back.

[@LEGONASCAR]

Ever heard of a controller?

[@binface88]

emulation is now harder since Citra shut down

[@julesfrancis]

so true

[@damotoneko1500]

All of this could've been avoided had Nintendo just listend to the demands and made 3ds' with built in capture cards!

[@IceBlueLugia]

They hate their fans streaming their games though. Remember that Nintendo creators program or whatever?

[@RayoMcQueen95990]

@@IceBlueLugia then how the hell did game reviewers got footage of their gameplay

[@IceBlueLugia]

@@RayoMcQueen95990 Early 3DS game reviewers always just put a camera up to the screen. When capture cards got created, they switched to that. Then Nintendo creators program didn’t apply to reviewers getting free games anyway

[@RayoMcQueen95990]

@@IceBlueLugia damn that sucks

[@GamerKittyEuphoric]

can't we just homebrew it?

[@IceBlueLugia]

You can. Snickerstream isn’t exactly consistent but if you’re fine with that then go ahead

[@xSoporific1]

👌

[@8Pit]

How dare you disrespect Ruby like that

[@NinTeo2DSXL]

From where you're kneeling it must seem like an $300 capture card run of subpar 3ds capture methods... Truth is, the game was rigged from the start.

[@msbois2960]

Bootntr

[@GLXY23]

loopy is making capture cards for the new 3dsxl so check that out.