The Sage's Library: Vampire the Masquerade 5th ed.

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[@barnyfraggles]

Almost nothing makes me happier than a new 'The Sage's Library' on my feed.

[@Alberaan]

Please make a season based on Vampire The Masquerade!!

[@odinborrson]

When I saw the title, I came with prejudice.; then I listened with interest and left as a fan.

[@himurogentoku7117]

I had a really good laugh hearing you say "..in fact the book is barely organized at all.." , Mr. Devall. That's a good one, sir. I am quite fond of V5 too. I am very blessed by having a really kind and welcoming group for playing V5.

[@TheDarkestReign]

I was about to type out this quote because, as someone who had played VTM 20th Anniversary edition with the books, VTM 5e's books felt less like a set of guides on how to play the game and more like those "Bonus Art/Story lore" books you get for videogames.

[@georgee4810]

Vampire has such immense potential but I think many GMs, even well-meaning ones, don't "get" it. They keep running it like it's some sort of funky D&D, "here's your mission, go there, kill that guy, retrieve this, discover that" etc. But you, Sage, you've nailed it my man. You've insightfully conveyed its true nature: an RPG of personal and political horror. Your review should be required viewing for any GM running a VtM game.

[@RabidHobbit]

To be fair, a game where young vampires run here and there going on missions and heists sounds like a fun game. And VtM's setting is IMO the most interesting vampire RPG setting, so other games don't seems so satisfying in that regard. Although one could always take the setting from VtM and use another system to run their game. Maybe Dresen Files, although I'm not that familiar with it.

[@David_Blake91]

As someone, who liked older editions of VtM and loves v5 (and always loved the greater WOD-setting) this is "a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one!" :)

[@errantadventurespod]

Awesome video as usual. My only experience with VtM was in college, and I felt like I was the only one who understood the dark, political nature of the game. Everyone else was playing their vampires like D&D characters. It's still one of my favorite campaigns because I led a coup against the city's prince that ended with the group splitting in half between those who supported my bid for power and those who supported the current prince.

[@jasonGamesMaster]

Prefer Vampire: the Requiem myself (1e, specifically), but nice to see the WoD getting some love in general EDIT: also, you described how Requiem worked well, and you nailed the differences between Requiem and Masquerade feel wise, even the older versions. And also why I prefer Requiem. I do like the idea of Hunger Dice though!

[@NixonDrink]

I love Requiem so so much, but I always felt that the covenants system didn't really work as a player option. A Lancea et Sanctum with a party member with the Crones just feels werid and out of place. Love the feel though.

[@jasonGamesMaster]

@@NixonDrink it leads to a lot of in game tension (if rp well) which is the whole point. Same as Carthian/Invictus. One of our best games had a Crone member and a Sanctum member constantly at each others throats, but who ultimately joined forces to overthrow the Prince. The Covenant system is exactly why I prefer VtR over VtM. So much more interesting and dynamic than clan alone.

[@sircarthan1578]

I remember playing VTM 1th edition, we played just like we were the X-Men of the night lol. Forget the struggle with the beast and just beast the hell out of the thugs

[@sportscinematicuniverse]

Would love to see you do a solo of this game. Sounds fun!

[@samakechijowo]

"I have no knowledge of the old games, I don't care". I'm glad that I'm not the only one with that mindset when playing my games. 😂😂 I'm gonna wait for the book to go on sale and buy them then! Thank you for the video! I got an interest and an insight from it!

[@philmitchell12]

I own a lot of the older stuff and was wary of spending more money on V5... but I saw you liked it and splurged... it's pretty good and they fixed some broken stuff. Hunger is amazing - in fact when I told my old 90s group about that they liked it too. We gamers can be such grumpy sticks in the mud :) And love love love that you ignore the lore... not because it isn't good (it's pretty good), but because lore can be such a barrier to entry for many games... but lore is almost always optional - I really would love if game books broken themselves into those two sections.

[@animatorFan74]

oh I really love that Hunger Dice mechanic.... I don't know the rules so haven't heard of that before. I really really love it when games add in mechanics like those that add to the feel of the game... I can imagine with that mechanic that you would be making decisions differently than if it wasn't there. In some cases, you may "want" to lose control, but in some cases not so much.

[@killcat1971]

It has issues, it can become "roll until you fail"f it applies to EVERY roll, rather than when it makes sense narratively.

[@jcraigwilliams70]

I am kind of the opposite of you; I played Vampire when it first came out, up until maybe the 3rd (?) edition. I also picked up Requiem when it came out, but that didn't grab me the same way that the original did. I was the Storyteller for our group for about 5 or 6 years and I did include all the other WoD books in our campaign, though only one player played anything other than a vampire. I liked the lore for the original WoD, though I can understand it being a bit much now for a new player. My understanding is that there are now effectively 3 different Worlds of Darkness: there was the original, followed by the New WoD (which included Requiem), and the supposedly, 5th edition is in a new continuity similar to but separate from the original. Or at least Werewolf is, according to a video I saw a few days ago. As an older player, I think the Hunger die mechanic sounds pretty cool. There were a lot of things I liked in the old rules, but it was far from perfect. I did, however, love how you could build dice pools and use them to represent different things. You could have two guys with a combat pool of 5, but the first guy has Dex 2/ Brawl 3 (representing skill and training), while the other has Dex 4/ Brawl 1 (representing practically no training, but great natural ability.). So even having the same number of die, two characters can be very different thematically. I don't think I would ever go back, though. My games of choice these days are Savage Worlds and Fate for generic systems, and OSE and Shadowdark for D&D-style games.

[@qw3rty829]

Just in time for the humble bundle

[@oo4352]

You totally got me intrigued to check VtM out :)

[@himurogentoku7117]

I love the freeform combination of Attributes and Skills of V5 too, sir.

[@blacklodgegames]

I love hunger dice. I haven't figured out how to adapt it to Requiem as a replacement for vitae pool, but it's such a great innovation. The beast is now perpetually rattling the bars of its cage. You can't meta game around frenzy any longer. Very good video, glad to see other people talking about V5 and V:tR. We've got several videos about V5 that have a pretty unique perspective as well.

[@cainedreamwalker6572]

Fantastic video! I adore the world of darkness. However, I had no idea VtM made so many changes 😂. I jumped to the Requiem when it came out and stayed in the New WoD. Anywho...for what it's worth, you did a fantastic job covering this. I like to describe the difference between the two (new and old) as old world being about being "Super powered" and new world as more "supernatural." That shows through even more so with werewolf, but there are definitely power differences between old and new vampires as you described them very well.

[@MrJHDK]

From my experience with the WoD games back in the 90s. Vampire was the easiest to get new players for a session. However, they often tended to be more interested in playing dress-up than the actual game. Werewolf Apocalypse was the easiest to create fun action based games with room for higher themes and plots if you wanted. But I've met many people who hated the game and desperately wanted others to hate it too. Played in a one-shot at a con where the players spent the entire session trapped in their wolf form chasing after some spirit animal. We were only allowed to communicate with yips and howls. My personal favourite was Wraith Oblivion. Loved the concept and the room for creating a heavily ethereal world. Found it the most challenging and rewarding. ... Never even saw a copy of Mage. This was pre Harry Potter days. I wonder if it exploded after that 🤔

[@badnewsBH]

If HP got people to buy a copy of Mage, I think the HP fans got a big surprise...

[@MrJHDK]

@@badnewsBH 😄

[@sebastienparadis9115]

I just love these new mechanics. I own the old world of darkness books and never heard of V5. I am amazed at this hunger dice mechanics. It's all so awesome. And as usual Trevor is an incredible host.

[@GreenfieldGreyskies]

There's a VtM humblebundle going right now

[@Spacemutiny]

Love this channel, love this series, and I love Trevor! Yes, I said it!

[@JordanPeacock]

I'm running my second VtM 5e campaign; first was a homebrewed set in Quebec City, and now I'm running through the Fall of London campaign book; while there are definite misses overall I love the game and the system, and my players, all of whom are brand new to VtM and many to RPGs generally, have loved it.

[@user-mc6gs6ov4l]

Just played my first Vampire v5 game last year. Great GM with lots of intrigue, mystery and vampire politics set in Stockton of all places. Fantastic campaign and I’m really glad to be branching out beyond just various D&D versions. Have you considered a video overview of your RPG library? Maybe briefly touch on why you picked up certain products or the significance of particular items for you. And I’d love a Sage’s Library on Runequest if that is one of your old favourites.

[@RedwoodRhiadra]

My sister in the 90s was one of those goth kids playing live action Vampire 🙂. I was mostly playing GURPS at the time; I even got GURPS Vampire.

[@allluckyseven]

Me too! In fact my first ever Vampire game was a GURPS Vampire The Masquerade game!

[@mwaegema]

Great video! I am very conflicted about V5 myself because it has some great rules like the Hunger mechanic but as you say it is barely organised and some rules feel like they needed another round of play testing. Also, I resent they didn’t include all the clans in the core book and did away with some of the clan specific disciplines.

[@03dashk64]

Great video! Gotta say I am a huge WoD fan, and I was a late comer too. I didn’t start playing until nWoD, but I went back and fell in love with Vampire. (I still prefer modern Mage, Hunter, Changeling, and Werewolf though) I really wanted to love V5, and I love some of the mechanics like the hunger die! So good! But I really don’t like some of the clan changes, the way they are releasing content, and I find actually trying to use the book is atrocious. It’s so hard to find what you need. 20th anniversary edition is my favorite, but I definitely use some of the conversion rules to use things like the hunger dice from V5!

[@theobsessor11294]

What are your tips for running a solo mystery campaign? I want to run a solo cozy fantasy mystery campaign a la Nancy Drew, but I don't really know how to go about it? Should I use Brindlewood Bay? Or would DND 5e do? How does one go about solving a mystery on their own? How do you overcome your anxiety about just STARTing?

[@ricardo.mazeto]

This very same question have been in the back of my mind for quite a while. Because when you're playing with your friends, the DM may have a whole plot in the working throughout the campaign, and the players usually uncover the mystery by piecing together scattered pieces. But when you're playing solo, if you plan the plot beforehand, it's no longer a mystery for you, because you're also the player. But the answer to that question, I believe, is a system for mystery plot. A plot machine of sorts. Basically you can have tables of possible factors. On a murder mystery, for example, suspects, weapons, reasons, victims, and etc. And for each step you take towards solving the mystery, you can have a mechanic of trading between two opposites, like the certainty about who is the murderer, and time. The more time you take to investigate, more certain you are about who is the murderer, but on the other hand, more time the murderer have to escape, hide, or continue to making victims. And you keep rolling on those tables. There are games out there that have some sort of "plot machine" like that, but I don't know much about them. I need to do some research, but I believe that answers your question. Hehe. 😅 EDIT: Not that I thought about that plot machine, I came up with some ideas. You can make, for example, 3 tables of suspects, reasons (for killing), and weapons (used for the murdering). Cut the table into little pieces of paper, and fold 4 times each entry. Shuffle each table separately. Take 1 piece of paper from each table, unfold them 2 times and mark the paper with a tick. That is your murderer, reason and weapon. Don't reveal to yourself, fold them back and put them back on their individual piles. As you play, as you investigate, on each scene, you can take entries from the piles, and unfold them, revealing to yourself, slowly closing in and solving the mystery. When you find appropriate, place your bet on who is the murderer, the reason, and the weapon used, and unfold all the remaining pieces of paper. The mechanic for weighting the two opposites, certainty and time is missing from this example, but the basic idea is there.

[@AgressivePigeon]

There's a very cool Ironsworn adaptation of Vampire v5 called Elegy. Officially, its not Vampire the Masquerade, but with some mental gymnastics and few notes on the rulebook who can tell the difference. Looking to get into solo v5, and its pretty cool seeing there are a few options already made. I just love World of Darkness so much, old and new, and there's so much lore to dig into.

[@TehZach1993]

I actually have been looking into Elegy

[@ProfEngelhardt]

I played the oWoD versions of Mage and Hunter, and read but never played the nWoD versions of those. Haven't touched v5 at all - but it's good to hear that Renegade is keeping up with White Wolf's tradition of terribly organized books!

[@David_Blake91]

The original v5 book was done before Renegade took over making WOD-books. The newer books made by them are actually far more organised.

[@The_Shadowy_Mr_Evans]

heh, our Requiem game was the birth of Larry. He's showed up in many games since, recently ran him again in an Unknown Armies-type game with Kim and Marek.

[@8triagrammer]

Great overview, i just bought the core book and was overwhelmed by all the lore, fearing I'd have to study it and do a bunch of homework. It's refreshing to know that's not necessary. I'm curious how VtM 5e compares with other narrative systems such as Cypher or Fate...

[@TheGunNight]

So my knowledge of V20 is a bit rusty, but no the game would not let you play as an Antediluvian (maybe a Methuselah but I’m not sure that’s even possible with heavy minmaxing). Essentially V20 had a Generations stat during character creation that determined how far up the vampire lineage the character was. Lower Generations were closer to Cain and had less diluted vampire blood. I forget what the mechanical benefits were, but Generations range from 3-13 and really players could only reasonably achieve somewhere between 6-8 in Chargen if they minmaxed (normally it’s 10-12 if I recall correctly, 13 if you wanted to play a Caitiff). Antediluvians would be impossible to play because lore wise almost none of them exist and if one did wake up it would be the vampire apocalypse.

[@tickingtimebobgaming]

Good stuff Trevor. I think vtm lore gets a bad reputation by many of it's detractors because they view the lore like it's concrete. In my opinion, at least since 3rd edition, it's clear that the game designers have used the lore which serves as belief systems for the political dynamics of the games, such as clans and sects of vampires. In my opinion, it's relevance in most games is to give a political backdrop for why the kindred behave the way that they do.

[@NixonDrink]

V5 probably is the best place its been lore wise ever. Players have a lot of interesting stuff to do that justifed because of the Beckoning.

[@allluckyseven]

Wow, I'm surprised to know that of all people _you_ didn't play V:TM back in the nineties! Because to me you're the American "Gentleman Gamer" (if you happen to know him/his YT channel). Man, it would be really cool if you would go over older editions of Vampire. Of course the first 3 editions are the richest in lore (which is the same across all of those editions as far as I'm aware), but pretty overwhelming. I didn't get into them because it was just too much for my peanut brain, and other players seemed to know everything, so I couldn't even create an adventure for them without running the risk of being criticized for not following the lore. In one side of the spectrum there's the _rules_ lawyers, and on the other there's the _lore_ lawyers... VTM players that I knew were very much the latter. Regardless, V:TM is a pretty cool game, it has a great intended mood. And I really loved that. As for V5, I didn't play it yet, but I did learn about the basic mechanics (because I'm also a system nut) and I really liked the hunger dice! I think that that's a great addition to that game. By the way, if I'm not mistaken, the overall dice mechanic of V:TM came from Shadowrun.

[@johnmerrick7874]

Literally last night i was thinking which version to solo. V5 or V20? I have still no idea but this was a great surprise 😅

[@LD-gc4qg]

I would love to see a season of me, myself and die, playing Vampire with the V5 system.

[@qarsiseer]

Wow, so many years of World of Darkness books and they still haven’t published a competently laid out rulebook. Gosh the game sounds fun though. I’ve only played Werewolf and Changeling

[@evilintheair7212]

The internal struggle idea makes me think it could go well with Mythic/solo play.

[@malkyus]

V5 is so great that I want to use it with everything

[@trondsi]

Based on your previous reviews etc., I suspect that you would LOVE Artesia Adventures in the Known World.

[@DiomedesRangue]

How would you go about prepping this game?

[@chapter7309]

WOD is not only about vampires, but almost anything supernatural.

[@GNHobbies]

nWOD was missing too much. They tried too hard to re-invent themselves. They felt like they had painted themselves into a corner with the meta-plot and wanted a reset button. Unfortunatley nWOD felt too hollow for the existing players, and not enough new players filled the void. The storyteller system has always been my favorite system. White wolf did a great job with it.

[@toddmen8302]

It took me a while to warm up to V5 mechanics, but ultimately what killed it for me was amalgam disciplines. However, if you've been ttrping long enough you know how to homebrew, so it's not such a big deal I guess.

[@jayteepodcast]

1000 year vampire?

[@StanNotSoSaint]

Took a level in goth

[@errolab3872]

Doesn't this system break two very important RPG rules? 1. Don't fight puppies- every encounter should have some chance of real danger. If human hunters had no real chance, then the players might as well of been fighting puppies. 2. The DM shall not play player characters- player agency of their characters should never be taken over by the DM, unless its a very short fear or madness state in an encounter.

[@SalihFCanpolat]

As a mere mortal you step into a dark alley only to find a pretty girl feasting on a rat while crying! This lady of nights never dined on anything but finest food but just a few seconds ago she was gulping down a rat just like it was the finest wine. Now? She is torn inside out with disgust! A hunter barges into a house and sees a vampire who handcuffed himself to a pipe, intently starting at the corpse next to him. He couldn't hold himself when his daughter asked "Daddy! Kiss my finger!" he did more than that he sucked the life out of most precious thing in his life! Now he wishes to die the most horrible death! You, a fledgling vampire move through the crowds, everywhere smells of sweet blood, sweeter than the sweetest wine, sweeter than the true lovers kiss and it is getting harder and harder to keep the beast inside! You are about to loose control but you have to hold on... just... a little... longer... This is what old World of Darkness was.

[@cybrim1]

Meta-plots destroy roleplay! "Oh, that thing you did... well it didn't happen because plot rules..."

[@dranorter]

Knowing nothing about Vampire beyond the video I just watched, I gotta ask, where do meta-plots come in?

[@cybrim1]

@dranorter what happens if you become the prince of the city and decide to make an alliance with some mages? The publisher comes out with a book that tells you that not only would it be impossible, but they want you to role play in a box that they've constructed, because their go-nowhere plot is super important. It's like playing D&D and being told that the king has a crown, his highest level guard is 9, you're a bunch of 10th- level thieves who can't steal it.

[@mwaegema]

I am always amazed people seem to think they have to buy every supplement and adhere to the lore/meta plot in those books. Just buy the core book and make shit up. If your players are hardcore lore/plot hounds, find different players.

[@cybrim1]

@mwaegema I feel you, I'm in that camp, the meta-crap is like listening to a Warhammer fanatic lore dump on you, when you're trying to find an exit.

[@sungeziefer7421]

What kind of DM would do that? Only the one who has already issues. The system does not matter. A lot of gamers love the meta plot and I can understand why. The meta-plot gives you easy story hooks and context. As a player in VtDA I like to mess with the metaplot, it such a fun. As GM which plays the Contagion Chronicles it works well as a rough guide line.

[@screenmonkey]

My take is that the Onyx Path made the best source books, while paradox can't stop pooping the bed with the new WoD and butchered the lore and Renegade made trash source books that did a huge disservice to the Sabbat and the Second Inquisition was a bit of wet fart. Then the core book is horribly organized and armor is flipping useless to every super natural being.

[@zorakzoran1]

woke junk this new edition.

[@synmad3638]

🤓

[@wbbartlett]

Please elaborate. If you can.