The Scariest Winemaking Technique - Hyper Oxidation

[@jgar538]

I'm just a kit winemaker, but I still enjoy the education you offer whether I will use it or not. In this episode you went over a process I will not likely use as a winemaker, but as a cider maker I was excited to learn about the reason for the browning and the changes that happen once yeast are introduced. Thanks and Cheerz.

[@leonardovidal8029]

I liked the experience of picking up a spot in the beginning of the video, then skipping to the end to see how active that white wine fermentation actually is. And it is quite wild. Fun to watch.

[@matthewdeklerk3457]

I worked for a winemaker a few years ago who used hyperoxidation in his technique (primarily for his chardonnay and for a white blend he made). I had to whip the juice with a comically large whisk for over an hour. He would blend it with unoxidised wines to lend more austerity/minerality/"crisp seaside notes" into his wine (which he also went for by having one sector of Chardonnay grapes growing in stony, calcium-rich soils). it must have worked because he won a bunch of awards for it.

[@kentadran]

Hello! I tried on making a wine and this is my first time! I've been scavenging for videos about racking and I just found this video which really recognize as on the thumbnail! I have the same result! I love it that I achieve that on my first try!

[@dawsonjanaky6357]

I just harvested some Albariño in north Texas (Lubbock) and crushed/destemmed it and pressed it on site and left it out for 4-5 hours while we harvested the rest of the block (I’m 21 it’s my first wine not from a kit). I got home and it was exactly how you explained, that light chocolate brown. It’s been 5 days since I pitched the yeast and now it’s dry and golden and not brown anymore. I am trying to figure out what I should blend it with since I have about 5 gallons in my 6 gallon carboy and am worried about further oxidation from the headspace(I’ve sulphited it pretty heavily since it became dry) ! Absolutely love your videos and this video is JUST what i needed to make me feel good about this batch! Love your content!

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

It is a pretty wild process! I would probably get a 5 gallon carboy to transfer it to. If you still have any headspace, a dry Riesling will make a good topper. A good hard so2 hit after fermentation is the way to go. These crisp whites really fall apart if they try to go through MLF which they may try to naturally if the SO2 is low enough after fermentation. I hit them hard at the completion of fermentation, then test the free SO2 at the time of bottling. If it needs more I will bump it up. It is usually close to the ideal range after about 5 or 6 months in carboy after the big dose.

[@pseifarth]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Albarino put through malo can be pretty tasty imo -- If you use an appropriate lactobacillus. High acid whites put through malo correctly can be wonderful. I think rias baixas puts their premium Albarino through malo often. Cheers!

[@joseheliodoroneto8626]

Happy Birthday! I really liked this fermentation technique. Great learning! Thank you very much!!!

[@alexpolidoro4126]

It has happened to me as well with my present white wine batch. It started off like a brownish colour and i placed the juice in the cold room at around 60 degrees which was a lot cooler than when I crushed the grapes in my garage. Now, the colour has become yellowish but still oxidizing quite a bit. The airlocks are still quite active indeed. The grapes were Malvasia and Thompson Seedless 50/50. I gave the batch some yeast and 2 tabs of crushed tannisol once I transfered into the cold room. I also did a batch of organic pears ( 50 pounds ) with white grapes ( Savignon Blanc) 105 pounds. I crushed them and added some yeast to let it stay for 24 hours together. My potential alcohol measurement was 13%. The colour after a few days now has been light brownish and I would assume that as it ferments in the cold room at 60, I should witness a change in colour as well. THanks for the great narrative.

[@MoeMcGrath]

Your method: Made my dandelion wine super bright yellow. Thanks

[@davordamjanovic893]

In my village for a long time, if wine is getting some bad taste, ppl sometimes use buckets and pour wine over a few times to aerate it. We never did it personally but I tried those wines and they are good and you can not even find bad taste in them. I don't know in which stage of winemaking they do it but it somewhere between after fermentation starts and final wine.

[@piotrwojdelko1150]

I'm a Pole and I agree and use hyper -oxidation .We take care about fermentation in low temperatures like Sauvignon Blanc to persist its flavour, however I have notice wine after oxidation has become more stable later .I use hyperoxidation and high temperature for getting rid of labrusca flavour .It works well temp over 25C ,fusion super estrification can help me out to get a bit different wine , flavour .Do you know any methods how to get rid of labrusca flavour?

[@Ralphgtx280]

we know your heritage without you telling us ;) best way to not get the lisny flavour is to use vinifera grapes

[@thedevilsadvocate5210]

What is fusion super estrification? google doesn't bring up anything

[@piotrwojdelko1150]

@@Ralphgtx280 I have been testing over 50 different species in the coldest region in Poland .I have only less then 150 vines .I ferment in small containers ,however I see that in bigger container wine won't oxydate so easily .The assessment is not relevant becasue of wine is in small amount.I want to mention that anthranilate methylate can crystalise in temperature of 25C degree.

[@peteirvine3471]

You should refer to it is must before fermentation (not wine) to avoid confusion

[@justbwyse]

Thanks for the video! I just experienced this for the first time in all my years of winemaking and it scared me silly!!! My juice went brown/pink following primary fermentation. Is there any way to save the colour now?

[@limesinfinity6864]

Is that done in cognac regian, because they are not allowed to use SO4?

[@stiofanm.4744]

It looks like I am unwillingly trying this method, because I somehow have a hyper oxidized Delaware grape juice right at pressing. I froze my grapes for a couple weeks and then put them in the fridge for a day to thaw. I'm guessing that's the cause.

[@exceldude2001]

Roundabout growler... are you from Pittsburgh??

[@thomtalone9453]

You can keep oxidizing the wine throughout fermentation up until it goes dry. These traditional methods have you so scared about oxygen that even after you add some you resort back to not wanting to add anything. Build the structure in your wine by feeding the yeast plenty of oxygen throughout the entire fermentation, and trust in the process.

[@loryndabenson2118]

I make mine old fashioned simple way. Fresh Fruit with skin, lots of sugar, a little bit of water, although next time I may add some green or black tea. Open sterilized glass container covered with 2 layers of cloth. Let it ferment until i like the flavor. But of course I'm making small batches for myself and a few friends I'm not trying to sell so i like to keep it simple. Air/oxygen is ok but i would def add the decision to shield your wine from outside air as much as reasonable can def depend on your local air quality. The air quality where I am is really good so I'm totally cool with air getting in there. I'm sure it's helping preventing mold while my wine is brewing.

[@Reanim8ion]

I really look forward to the comparison video!

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I actually have an even better comparison in the works. I split a batch of Riesling I to two carboys. They are identical but one was sulfited and one wasn't. One turned dark brown within about 30 minutes and one never did. It will be a really good side by side comparison.

[@kurtniznik8116]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Interesting. I imagine the ferms might be different without available oxygen in the unsulfited version. For straight organoleptic comparison I'd like to try a standard version vs. an oxed, sulfited, inoculated and re-oxygenated (slightly, just to give similar ferm dynamics) version.

[@Timothy_Smith]

How did this wine turn out in terms of characteristics? Did it exhibit the greater fruit and floral aromas and tasting notes?

[@TheWinezen]

I think wines from Lebanon like Chateau Musar uses a technique like this resulting in a red wine that actually develops younger flavours as it ages up to 5 plus years before it starts going back to its regular developmental arc

[@witolds.2957]

I think i left too much space in my carboy for the second fermentation and looks like my wine is oxidized now . There is anyway to fix it ? I was just aging this wine in carboy. But the carboy was only half full.

[@degreatichewagulaofficial8814]

Can I use more than one fruit to make wine (can combine for example pineapple juice and banana juice to make wine)

[@pseifarth]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you must rack of the phenolic precipitates before you innoculate. Hyper oxidation does nothing without racking, because the precipitates dissolve back into solution with alcohol. (In regards to hyper oxidation) "This clarification must be completed before fermentation begins as the precipitate will re-dissolve in alcohol. The clarified juice will retain a brown color but this residual browning will be eliminated by the reducing conditions of alcoholic fermentation and absorption by yeasts (Schneider, Hyperoxidation: A Review, AJEV, 1998)."

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I am not sure that that is entirely necessary since yeast cells so readily adsorb brown polymers. Yeasts have been used on white wines as a fining agent to treat subtle browning with success and are preferred over charcoal if it is specifically browning that you are treating. In this little experiment and one that I have going with a Riesling with a control, the color was fully restored once the yeast really got going. I had read that Schneider paper as well which does have a lot of great information. I am also not particularly sure how you would give the wine the time needed to fine off the brown pigment without eventually moving to more advanced forms of oxidation.

[@Coproquim]

Would this work with meads?

[@Piccyman1]

Can you over do the oxidation pre fermentation?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Yes, you don't want to let the wine sit longer than it needs to in the presence of oxygen. It's all a balancing act. If your grapes had botrytis or black rot (very common with cool climate white grapes), you really don't want to attempt hyper-oxidarion. In those cases, the wines will have an additional browning enzyme, lacasse, which will brown the wine but won't settle out or be metabolized by yeast as well. I have an article for winemaker magazine that goes into much more detail that you should check out.

[@raroyston]

This is great info. So, I neglected to rack-out the debris materials before I added yeast.... and it went from brown juice to this golden haze (I guess that's good)... I also added pectin enzyme, so what's happening now is this hyper-oxidation for a few days now. Seems like I stumbled on this technique. Let me know if you have any thoughts. I will likely rack when the fermentation slows considerably.

[@GoranSvettlund]

question. If you want to hyper oxidize why not do so after cold settling with so2 and then once it starts to warm up you add a yeast starter and then once it starts to ferment you oxidize with a pump until it's brown then stop?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Yeast will consume oxygen if it has the chance. It has two options as far as eating sugar goes. Aerobic and anaerobic respiration (you can sub respiration in this case for fermentation). When it consumes an oxygen with the sugar, it creates CO2 and water instead of CO2 and alcohol. Once fermentation is underway, oxidation of unwanted molecules is near nonexistent between the CO2 blanket that the yeast creates and the O2 hunger that the yeast has. You can brown very easily pre fermentation. You can add all the oxygen you want during fermentation and see now browning and mild alcohol reduction due to increased aerobic respiration.

[@kurtniznik8116]

Keep us updated on the results! Did you make a control carboy made without hyper-ox to compare? I know that here in California and in French industry there was a big hyper-ox craze in the late 80's and 90's, but it seem to have fallen out of fashion and I've never had the chance to talk with a former practitioner to hear what their thoughts were on the results of this technique and where it may be useful. I would consider using it on phenolic varieties or hard press fractions to tone down astringency, but I'd be curious what the organoleptic effects are more broadly.

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Will do! I don't have a control with that wine but I have a Riesling side by side with a control. I too am very curious to see the difference between the two.

[@jeffreyvamos4832]

Love the channel, and your site. A question: I bought a six gallon bucket of chard from Chile from my local brew shop. After fermentation the chard turned the same brown as in the video here. A wrinkle: my heating system went haywire after the battery in the thermostat went out, and it was at about 90 degrees for a day or two (wondering if that contributed?) I let it ferment just over 2 weeks, racked into a 6 gallon carboy, sulfited and still brown. Any advice?

[@anthonypapa9407]

Can something like this happen naturally? We crushed and pressed our white wine and it had that dark brown oxidized color. We just pitched the yeast. Is there anything we should do to help encourage it to clear up?

[@jamesturek665]

great technique that may protect the wine from off flavors w aging.

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Thanks! It is a cool technique. Having aged the two wines side by side, I can say the differences are subtle but do exist.

[@stephwinss]

I’d reeeeeally like to know what has happened with this. 🤭. Very cool. This is quite exciting!

[@Juuk-D]

I'm gonna say it.... White wine is better than red! Yup i really said that

[@GoranSvettlund]

More about this! :) how did it turn out man? is this called laccase oxidation?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

It was great but so was the traditionally fermented version! Honestly the difference was almost imperceptible. I wrote up an article with some follow up on the June/July 2022 winemaker magazine. I believe it is available online for free if you look it up. Now that it has aged a little longer we will probably do another side by side. I expect the differences to become more evident as they age a few years.

[@GoranSvettlund]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel yeah I read that :) LOVE ur channel. Thanks for the content! Would love to be updated on your mead. ty

[@garylee3145]

SO..... I have 5 gallons of apple wine in secondary right now(40ish days). Was 1st time at Apples. I mashed and pressed apples to juice and added about 50ppm SO2. it was a nice light apple color, took about 3 hours to get to that point. I added yeast (71B),some tannin, nutriant, sugar and then..... next morning it was Dark Brown no activity. Hmmm scared! I let it go another 2 days and nothing. Right or wrong I made an assumtion that the must was very oxygen staverd assuming the emzine activity causing the browning, consumed all O2 along with SO2 and was stalling the yeast. so I used my siphon in reverse and pumped oxygen into the must. Low and behold about 6 hours later fermintation started up. I am not sure of what or where im at on the outcome here but the wine lightend back up and fermented dry. Im courious if my assumption was anywhere correct now as it seems this process you explane was basicly what happend to me in an unintended way. However you had no delay in fermintation startup. At this point wine seems to be ok and ontrack but I wounder about what I really have, shelf stability and final outcome. Am I anywhere in the ballpark on my assesment or the lack there of?

[@williamtapley5956]

I use a ninja food processor fir my grapes super infusing method puts lots of gasses into it it takez bout four days to degas then I add brewers yeast first video that kinda matches my colors thanks

[@PacesIII]

My peach wine turned brown after second rack. It's about 17%. It looked beautiful until the second racking. Started as a brown layer on top of the brew.

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Any low tannin wine is very vulnerable to Browning and will need adequate SO2 from the time fermentation finished onward. If your carboy had a lot of headspace it was likely enough oxygen to completely wipe out the available free SO2. In the future you will want to sulfite after fermentation and keep the carboys topped up to the neck. At each racking you will sulfite again. If you have an SO2 analyzer you can add more precise additions but without one, you sort of need to err on the side of caution.

[@crcarlsonUT]

Brown Juice Club!

[@mikewurlitzer5217]

Please correct me if I am in error. I always get headaches after drinking USA made wine but did not have that problem in Italy or France. I was told it was in the USA sulfates {?sp} were used but not in Italy or France. Any truth to this? Thanks.

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

The US is required to label that sulfites are used but they are used everywhere. Germany was the first to figure out about sulfur dioxide and would burn elemental sulfur in barrels several hundred years ago, creating SO2 (sulfites). The wines treated with the burnt sulfur would not spoil nearly as quickly as other wines and the industry has been using it ever since. It is now added in the form of a potassium salt (potassium metabisulfite) which breaks down to potassium and sulfur dioxide once placed the wine. This has been standard since the early 1800s. Prior to this this discovery, wines were preserved with things like pine resin but with relatively little success. Most wines were relatively undrinkable and would be cut with sea water or other liquids unless they were very fresh. The US does tend to leave a little more residual sugar than most countries, especially at the lower price points which could be a factor. Another could be natural amines (histadine, tyramine) produced by malolactic bacteria during malolactic fermentation. These are similar to histamine which can cause allergic reactions in some people. It also explains the "red wine headache" since white wines generally contain much more SO2 and rarely undergo malolactic fermentation.

[@eringoveia8353]

Why worry about oxidation during crush and press if you end up forcing oxidation right afterwards. I’m not being facetious, I’m a super noob.

[@rgevanckerschner]

Do you have any books or articles you would recommend reading about Hyper Oxidation?

[@thomtalone9453]

Post modern winemaking by Clark Smith

[@daly47]

Mine went from milky to orange, to milky pink, then next day after racking a second time, it turned brown with a reddish ring on top. I’m waiting it out, but the red/brighter brown ring on top seems to not want to disperse. Should I pour it out, or wait it out some more? I’ll be so sad if my grapes go to waste bc I’m new at this. 😭

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Is it actively fermenting? If it browns early it will sort itself out once fermentation gets rolling. After fermentation, it is important to keep it well sulfited and topped up so there is very little air space in the storage vessel. Every time you introduce oxygen, like racking, you will lose a good bit of your free SO2. Some old time home winemakers suggest racking way too often. White wines don't have much tannin to scavenge oxygen so they are especially vulnerable. It is not going to be bad in the sense that you cant drink it, but there will be a considerable loss of quality if it browns.

[@daly47]

@The Home Winemaking Channel I do believe it is still fermenting, although it´s in a cool basement, so it could be fermenting very slowly. I hope it clears up completely and doesn´t brown again when I bottle. Thank you for your time and response. :D

[@gangaskan2255]

the amount of glass you have is impeccable, however, nope.. ive heard so many stories.

[@clearwatervalleythrift3443]

I watched all your videos, and followed your advice 2 years in a row. But after my wine bottle is open, within 24 hours the flavor is gone. Wondering why?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

What type of wine are you making? A red will usually open up a little more on the second day unless it is older or very low on free SO2. A good bit of the character of a young wine (less than 1yr old), especially a young white wine comes from the esters formed by the yeast durning the cool fermentation. These are very volatile and will blow off within a day or so if stored at room temp after opening. You will definitely need to be more specific on what is changing. The perception of ethanol can change after a day but for the better generally. If a wine is "hot" meaning the ethanol is covering up some of the varietal aromas after first opening the wine, it can improve after some time airing out. This would decrease the intensity of the smells but increase the complexity. If a wine is grossly under sulfited it can oxidize noticeably overnight. Most wines are generally intended to be drank on the same night they are opened but can usually make it another day.

[@clearwatervalleythrift3443]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel thank you, it was so generous of you to reply. Wine was red, my grapes should be ready soon, and will more diligent on my processing them. After opening bottles, which sat for just one tear, first day aroma, flavor was very good. Perfect color. Second day on, lost most of everything except color. Maybe too young? Maybe it oxidized as you mentioned. Or maybe I was expecting too much on a second day. Thanks for your videos and sharing great techniques and information!

[@frankpower97]

it's not a new techinique by any means, here in south italy it's common to have some grape plants and make the wine for family and friends, virtually all the white wine is hyper oxidated and we don't use any so2 source in the pressing stage, this is how it's done normally, by oral tradition from gods know how many generations ago. Also I need to specify that more often we just do orange wine and call it white, some years we want to be fancy and we just press instantly the crushed grapes, but 9/10 we make the must extract color and flavour from the white grapes, which legally makes it "orange" or "yellow" wine

[@OriginalSchles]

What would happen if we tried hyper-oxidation with red wine?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I think most natural fermentations are sort of doing that. The high tannin content in a red scavenges oxygen pretty hard so it may never really then brown or may be covered up by the red pigment if it does. But the reaction of the tannin with the oxygen will definitely cause a change even if it never gets to the specific flavonoid phenols like it does in a white wine.

[@philgibson9201]

I use a home made air pulse 1cub/air from a oil less compressor, about 2nd day of fermentation once a day for the next 2days only, it will really amalgamate the yeasts, thereafter just punch down / day till end, as fermentation slows, float bubble (pool) cover on it, when all still, add a float of Nitrogen gas, under cover for a few days I add malo inoculation sometimes at 3/4 end of fermentation. Am a amateur wine maker grower Small Scale This was experiential but it really holds flavours true to the variety.

[@GodBroly]

It’s lease not Lee’s

[@stanleygrover1685]

Never made white's. maybe someday!

[@angrypastabrewing]

Anybody here made some grappa before?