The Science and State of Cloning - Offworld Episode 34

Once a hot topic of popular science, we check in on the science and state of human cloning in our discussion of the 2009 film Moon. Ariel and Norm are joined by Hank Greely, Director of the Center for Law and Biosciences at Stanford to talk biomedical ethics, cloning body parts, and artificial wombs as they relate to the future of human space travel.
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Kishore Hari / sciencequiche
Sean Charlesworth / cworthdynamics
Jeremy Williams / jerware
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Bill Doran / chinbeard
Ariel Waldman / arielwaldman
Darrell Maloney / thebrokennerd83
Kristen Lomasney / krystynlo
Intro bumper by Abe Dieckman
Set build by Asa Hillis www.asahillis.com
Set design by Danica Johnson / saysdanica
Thanks for watching!

[@ArielWaldman]

Glad you all are enjoying this episode! One sci-fi movie I neglected to mention (probably on purpose because it is so devastating to watch) is Never Let Me Go, based on the book. About harvesting clones for organs and the journey the clones go on to prove they have a soul. That one had me crying my eyes out at the end.

[@narusawa74]

Sounds very similar t the movie "the island" remember ? Odd island where rich peeps get their clone done in case of a future illness or organ failure.

[@charlieb9502]

That comment you made at 16:31, That was uncalled for. Not a valid point for this subject and not appropriate for this forum. For a so called smart person you do realize that slavery is not invention of White supremacy. This is not a place I come to for political views or comments. This is supposed to be for intellectuals not knuckdragging hate mongering.

[@Doobie3010]

Ariel Waldman Now,to the truth! Is hank future Adam?

[@tonysnark1530]

@@charlieb9502 right. But one can be smart and still be misinformed. Also, your last sentence was uncalled for.

[@MattShade64]

@@charlieb9502 Used to be that scifi - especially spec/scifi - couldn't 'dot an i', or 'call a spade a spade' - or raise varied values and opinions - without offending someone. Seems to me that a real intellectual ought to have the spine enough to look at things from anothers' point of view - even if only briefly. This is why our Universities and places of learning, are churning out the emotionally challenged. Anyhow, I agree with your point - slavery is a tool of the very power hungry fool and not owned by any one section of the community.

[@tofuninja5489]

Im not sure why this one was so captivating to me but I really really enjoyed it. As the progress bar got to the end I was like "Wait! No there has to be more!" Love this series!

[@Lord_of_Dread]

One thing he didn't mention, the Telomere problem. Taking aged cells will result in shorter telomeres (as this naturally happens as cells reproduce), meaning a clone made from older cells will likely run into genetic instability far sooner than a natural equivalent

[@KellyConcepts]

My mother taught me about GENETICS..."You are just like your father!" 😂

[@shaunkelly5985]

LOL 🔥🔥

[@grahamk3708]

I often say to myself, "haha I can't believe that cloning machine actually worked"

[@tessabuesgens5831]

Any Calvin and Hobbes fans in here by chance? @batcitydesigns you've got a sweet channel

[@KellyConcepts]

@@tessabuesgens5831 Thank you! And yes, love the comic and the story of the cloning box.

[@DenkyManner]

This is far more fascinating than I expected

[@RealUnimportant]

retread01 I concur. It’s rare that i watch Offworld, but due to circumstances this caught my eye more than usual. Even though my expectations were low, Hank was just so engaging and easy to listen to that i found myself rapt in no time! Yes Norm, more like this please!

[@ThisIsTheRoad]

Best guest on this show so far! Really great conversation.

[@lukasjuszczak1664]

Bujold! Bujold gets recognition! Yea!

[@peterkelley6344]

Star Wars also touched on cloning ... Really fun discussion. This what what I thought 'OffWorld' would lead too. Please keep moving in this direction.

[@mrdot1126]

the Latest Series of this would be, Altered Carbon...

[@bwake]

I think you are mistaken. The premise of Altered Carbon is that the personality and memories can be recorded and transferred to another body. That recipient body can be obtained in many ways. It can be an empty clone, or it can be somebody who has been sentenced for a crime, among other possibilities. The transferred personalities refer to these bodies as “sleeves”. The first season was very good. The second season, not so much, despite Anthony Mackie, Martha Higareda and the others. The writing for the second season isn’t nearly as good.

[@samuelolee5989]

Your show is very interesting but it is quite clear to me that your guest carefully prepared public arguments against the merits of human cloning while guarding his private thoughts about the current state of human cloning on our planet. Guess I shouldn't be surprised by an esteemed law professor holding back damning evidence from real life cases.

[@danhitt167]

That's my impression also. His remarks against cloning seemed to be mostly conventional wisdom. He was also factually wrong in at least one spot, at about 7:20, when he implied that sheep have 46 chromosomes. They don't, that's the human count, sheep have 54. On the other hand, it would probably be very, very hard to get a scientist like Mitalipov on a show like this: he would have to be even more guarded and circumspect about what the popular opinion was.

[@86fifty]

Aww, this was great! Especially the comparison of state-level USA laws like Louisana's and Oregon's on frozen embryos vs buying embryos. The idea of artificial wombs was super-interesting - I can picture a screenplay right now, The First Mother or something, where a single human goes into space in a ship, full of frozen DNA samples from almost everyone on Earth, and when she lands on a new planet, she has to go about building the population from frozen embryos, with an artificial womb. With, like, a new child every year or something, and no strain on her own body, she'd just have to raise all those infants... But eventually, the first kids would be old enough to help raise their younger siblings, like farm families with 10+ kids, the parenting duties get spread out. THAT'S the big advancement in human reproduction right there, in my opinion - once you don't need an organic uterus to do the actual gestation, then anyone of any age/gender/ability could be a child-rearer... "Story credit and 1% of the gross, not the net." Got it! ;)

[@nicdennis]

That awkward moment when a stranger ships you and your coworker's reproductive cells.

[@sadiqmohamed681]

That was fascinating. I remember the fuss when Dolly the Sheep was born and he is right about the mad stories that the tabloids were writing. Another science fiction writer who has a universe with clones is John Varley (Steel Beach is a classic novel). He has a different take on the cloning spare bodies. His universe has a system for making a full recording of a persons brain. You can take our insurance against dying! You make regular recordings, then if you are killed in an accident, they grow a clone and dump your recording into it's brain. You lose the part of your life between the last recording and your death, but that may only be a day or so. It leads to some interesting story lines.

[@Borvboski]

Am I the only one to think of the film "The Island" were they used clones for organ donors. Would be interesting to know if Twins/clones have the same blood types etc.

[@RealUnimportant]

Jonny they do, but contrary to movie tropes they don’t share fingerprints - those are styled by the eddy currents in the amniotic fluid, not by genetics.

[@fishnsyd]

You had me at the Moon thumbnail!

[@blakey023]

So are you guys still able to make eye contact after that :)

[@tested]

More Offworld episodes here: kzbin.info/aero/PLJtitKU0CAejxY099_rtv7mrMaNhF9mgg

[@tonysnark1530]

Great discussion. Thanks.

[@BLAZE084]

The Island with Ewan McGreggor. Harvesting clones for body parts...

[@thehorriblebright]

If you've only seen the show you're missing out. The books are orders of magnitude better.

[@Lunareon]

Fascinating discussion! I wish we'd get to see all these different ideas explored in science fiction. Also, it would be refreshing to see stories featuring these technologies in good, practical use, instead of the usual doomsday scenarios.

[@criose]

20:20 Getting close to talking about new types. Norman knows what I'm saying.

[@charlieb9502]

At 16:31 WTF does white supremacy has anything to do with the context of Cloning seriously!

[@charlieb9502]

I am sorry but in that stament made at 16:31 she just lost all credibility.

[@Lord_of_Dread]

This confused me at first, but when you look at the context it does makes sense. They were discussing the creation of slaves that are brought up in a regulated and isolated environment to display the 'correct' loyalties (from the point of view of the master), which is analogous to white supremacist movements or by extension, most cults that isolate their members in order to make them slaves to an 'ideology' that exclusively serves the interests of the masters. Quite a profound comparison when you think about it.

[@chloehennessey6813]

Cloning and the science it entails shouldn’t be banned or limited. We’re an insignificant spec of dust in the far corner of a galaxy in the middle of trillions of galaxies.

[@Doobie3010]

Hank knows his stuff.

[@Damidas]

Plot twist: Hank is a clone.

[@1000dots]

This is a great episode :) I wish I was a writer, it's giving me ideas.

[@MrRightThinker]

Write whatever you want . Go Ahead

[@mrgreen497]

I just want one clone. I work 2 days he works 2 days, I go to school, he works on the house stuff like that

[@bleedingfly]

And your One clone will want their One clone and so on.

[@bwake]

One income split two ways. Better to get married.

[@jtjames79]

One easy way to fix all moral implications of the movie Moon. Just Neuralink the clone and the original. Then the clone is an organ of the person it's created from, and can give informed consent for it's temporary existence. Similar to how Dropbox works. You could have several instances but keep a merged file.

[@doublehelixe2616]

it was all very interesting up until the point of 16:29 where she decided to say "and white supremacy usually" is their nothing in this world people will try to blame on this so called white supremacy.

[@JJ_PapaOfFiveKids]

Like the petty African dictators wouldn't try and make clone slaves if they had the ability to do so. There are evil people (some are even racist) in ever race, creed and society on this beautiful earth. I wish people would open their eyes and recognize that without always trying to blame just one group of bad people. On a side note, I've yet to see convincing evidence that Donald Trump is indeed any more racist than Bernie Sanders or Michael Bloomberg are.

[@charlieb9502]

@@JJ_PapaOfFiveKids Slavery is not only synonymous with White supremacy. Just about all cultures at one time had slaves. The context of slavery in this point was a brand term to the subject. She had to be a titanic twat to make a political statement.

[@FnD4212]

Everything has stereotypical apply on it. I'm sure white supremacist have one for slave subject, whatever it is. So there are certain yet almost same respond for anyone who offended by religious or race stereotype. "Its just a joke guys, but its true though, historical/data has proved it".

[@galenwarren3579]

@@FnD4212 Bull shit.

[@FnD4212]

@@galenwarren3579 On what?

[@Midori_Hoshi]

Fascinating stuff from Hank.

[@afx2055]

Rhon

[@twitte0king]

Why is the discussion limited to embryo cloning? How about teleportation clone, essentially a 3d printed copy with same memories and nuture. Or "robotic" clone as touched in Westworld?

[@anhelDondee]

Nice talk

[@johnsmitty7447]

i cant wait to see the norman and ariel hybrid clone baby

[@GipsonWands]

The plot of I am Mother but in space. that would be more ideal for interstellar travel.

[@capriceemeraldyn7373]

I've so many questions... What happens to cellular memories? And if the egg is used to procreate, what happens to the ancestral DNA from the donors ? Why do clones die so soon?

[@DM-hw4cr]

Cool movie. No CGI. All models

[@bwake]

Identical twins raised apart can be very similar. Clones would probably not need to share a womb, so they might be more similar. It would probably be cheaper and faster to grow replacement organs without the rest of the body. Less need to wait.

[@zagonde]

Well that was interesting!

[@NagaTen]

"Identical twins are clones, do you guys know any identical twins?" Isn't Norm a twin himself? :P

[@FreedomTalkMedia]

A positive reason to clone is you could identify people with superior intelligence, health, and personality characteristics and increase the prevalence of those characteristics in the population. For example, Steve jobs is an outlier in several of those traits but obviously not all, since he died. Anyway, if we were to make 1000 Steve Jobs clones it could be good for society. No, they will not all go on to found companies the size of Apple but it is highly likely that many of them would go on to create things / partner with others creating things that vastly improve the world for billions of people.

[@ariyanadumon4549]

So what I'm hearing is, the big issue is not so much a moral issue, but a viability issue? So it's really just because of the low success rate right? This is really amazing stuff.

[@derekhauffe7197]

I’m hoping that epigenetics will arise in the discussion of differences between identical twins and clones.

[@MrChief101]

I KNEW it!!! Caffeine is EVERYTHING!!!!!

[@swandonovan]

Thought could have been 3 hours long and I would have watched it

[@mekugi_7729]

Great talk! On cloning a space worker, is the assumption that the clone is a standard human? Perhaps they have been genetically enhanced for radiation tolerance/bone density/muscle growth etc... In that case the cloning makes sense (as the research/altering has already been done and cloning the result would be the cheaper/mass produced end result of the process). I'd really like a clone of my dog. Even if he wont be the same, I know that his potential for intelligence and behaviour would be there and I'd love to get to love him all over again.

[@yansmith55]

Audio version?) Spotify maybe...

[@andrew2699]

Would not trust anyone from Stanford on this topic .

[@mattyp80]

this would be brilliant if it weren't for the midrolls!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jamesjoyce3849]

Go read Arthur C. Clarke's "The Songs of Distant Earth." Humanity attempting to found colonies on other planets in anticipation of the sun going nova ... sending rockets with cargos of frozen embryos and humanoid robots to raise them until they can parent their own children. Interesting scenario.

[@NonalignedVideos]

perhaps if we discover how to record and transfer memories via technology we'd be more likely to be able to succeed at this if we transfer memories into a very genetically-similar brain.

[@RealUnimportant]

Nonaligned Videos Freejack here we come!

[@Northern5tar]

- hears the word 'slaves' - temporal lobe blurs out "white supremacy"

[@flowshowgames7541]

Hi Adam

[@MuhammadDaudkhanTV100]

Nice 👌👍😍❤️👏

[@artiemuse]

It's a 30mim vide. Why do I have full non skipable ads every 5min. T_T

[@IDKOKIDK]

Prob watching on an apple product.

[@artiemuse]

@@IDKOKIDK not at all

[@IDKOKIDK]

@@artiemuse there's youtube Vance for android and usual adblockers for chrome etc

[@charlieb9502]

I am and I run ad block plus and don't see a single ad.

[@Trav2016]

16:31 she does realize the Chinese are do this now and they aren't white.

[@charlieb9502]

No she's clueless.

[@andrewpast1959]

Cool

[@ioanaiordache3206]

I would love to have a clone of my own!

[@bitzturnbyte9334]

Didn't they recently disprove that women only have a limited number of eggs?

[@MrRightThinker]

It's an Good interview . Can you provide us Mr.Hank' e-mail address ?

[@markwillentdion]

Subhanallah

[@richbaumannsingersongwriter]

interesting

[@yajack5397]

Hi

[@animechill2729]

pretty damm intresting

[@ojsojs246]

"all you need is orphans"

[@mrdot1126]

we have enough people on the face of the earth... But most importantly its an ethic's thing.. Sadly.. we could have 100% compatible organs.. from when we where young and they functioned good, but no... Sanctity of life..... also the issue is abuse.. i mean you need to make laws that prohibit to patent peoples dna... so its also laws issue...

[@narusawa74]

I'd like to be able to grow my own organs form my stem cells when I'm born. It's just there for each organ, like a data bank and if I have a failure of something or get into an accident etc, they can grow said part and it'd be perfectly compatible. That needs a fully functioning artificial womb tho.... Kamino style factory or like in blade runner 🤔

[@charlieb9502]

@@narusawa74 By the time that technology is available, 3d printing will have caught up and using your DNA as a map be able to reproduce any body part needed. with he exception of the brain. Well it could but it wold be a blank slate. Wither or not you could make a replacement part of the brain and put it place if the remaining neurons would help rebuild new pathways. But I am sure that the old pathways would not be restored. It is not like a brain is a fault tolerant raid array. But is it?

[@narusawa74]

@@charlieb9502 oh yeah I forgot about that!! But it may led even faster to a world of replicants/bioroids, like seen in the game Detroit : almost human (highly recommend it). I like the machines designed to do the basic tasks and production plants robots so we can focus not on bringing a meager salary to get a house and a nice car but more on how can we help us and the planet to evolve together harmoniously, or focus on developing lattent faculties and talents, or preparing us to migrate in space...... But all. That takes time and a time that could be ours by trying to slow down aging and/or by using cloned organs in case of lethal desease or accident. And then yes.... As a chimera, why not havi g several clones of our 20ish self to transplant our brain and keep on living (my favorite sci-fi future). And mapping "conciousness" from waves and chemical. Reactions and what else may be there too, we'd need so many years of research of each parameters (if we could even name some of it) and then device a way to make it into data which could be transfered USB style to a new "physical and virgin" (like a doll without a ghost) engineered body, flesh or synthetic, is really so out of reach still..... But I think all of us are looking for that last dimension in life..... The one we can't see or touch...... That weird thing that keeps it all. Together..... The spark..... I hope we'll figure it out before I die, would be a very interesting to witness.

[@timcarder2170]

HAPPY (belated) METEOROLOGICAL PROGNOSTICATING ALBINO RODENT DAY!!

[@mikemeehan907]

Dude, I was a die hard fan back in the days of Myth Busters, that was the family gathering time. So heartbroken to find out you are soooo hateful. I know one person doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but maybe this hill of beans can derail your career. Sincerely, A #Trump2020 supporter. *go read his Tweet before he deletes it.

[@xspelarexspelare5540]

👍

[@xspelarexspelare5540]

🤔🧬

[@keithautry4602]

CHINA HAS...............

[@xspelarexspelare5540]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🧬🧬🧬🧬🧬🧬

[@russian5470]

Youngboy clone

[@jamesdriscoll9405]

From Dust: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGipmmilabyIqNk

[@andrestorres1585]

It was good until we threw the political jab in there.

[@peterahe]

The thumbnail combined with title is a spoiler. Not cool.

[@AttilaTheHun333333]

If you don’t know the movie that thumbnail says nothing.

[@kevinvandomselaar]

2020-2009=11 they can't count

[@twitte0king]

This guest is horrible

[@TheNicoleary]

Shutting off video at 16:45. Your political opinions are irrelevant here. You should be ashamed for alienating half your viewers. Sad and disgusting.

[@portaltv9584]

Shame it had to get political...

[@Kevinthespfan]

Cool