The Secret Dark Justiciar Battle. Baldur's Gate 3, Nine Hells Challenge

[@RoryDavidWatts]

Congratulations on the 7k Melth! Well deserved.

[@Melth]

Thank you!

[@kristianhirsl2491]

Your playthrough perfectly sums up why I don't like using summons - it just gets too crowded and tedious to manage so many characters. Most of my runs end up being duos bcs I don't want to force myself to take care of 4 characters.

[@Melth]

I'm the opposite. I want more characters so I can pull off complex tactics and maneuvers. I find solo runs really boring because there are almost no tactics left, just strategy to have the right option available to win each fight.

[@samuelpetrunyak4989]

@@MelthI love both of these options! I’ve played both play throughs and gotta say I love the challenge of solo runs, but love the tactical play of large companion runs because positioning is key. I’ve definitely leans into more managing multiple party members, and it helps by having like minded friends control characters too or have their own!

[@lenam317]

I like to use summons but I dont like the way they are in BG3. My comfort ground is some thing like short live and unique. I also thing that solo run is an impressive feat but it is not my taste. Making a party that complement each other and have a lot of tatics under your hand is more fun to me.

[@brokenmeats5928]

I love ALL Melth videos!

[@Melth]

@@brokenmeats5928 thank you!

[@samuelpetrunyak4989]

So impressive! I love your upload schedule please keep it up!

[@Melth]

Thank you! Will do!

[@HQbaracuda]

I think Ketherics path makes sense. Having being "betrayed" by Selune, it is understandable for him to turn to the goddess, who represents their polar opposite. It also helps, that Shar is the Lady of Loss and is said to be the one to help with forgetting. I mean, there are a lot of delusional people in Real Life, who turn to all kimds of delusional things, so for a fictional character to behave "dumm" isn't such a stretch, imo

[@Melth]

@@HQbaracuda I mean, in no way, shape or form did Selune do anything resembling a betrayal though. Meanwhile, it is heavily implied that Shar herself is the one who killed his daughter. And Shar should be the first and most obvious suspect in her mysterious death. Just to not consider Shar a primary suspect in the first place makes Ketheric stupid and a bad Selune follower. Then, as a Selune follower, he should be well aware of the fact that Shar does NOT actually help her followers with their grief. That is a lie. It is an established thing that Shar enjoys the suffering of her own worshippers and does not take away the memories that hurt them. Even ignoring that, why the hell would his default solution be "I guess I'll find a god to make me forget my daughter" rather than either "I guess I'll find a god to resurrect my daughter" or "I guess I'll find a cleric to cast the mid level spells that let you literally talk to a god to find out what happened to my daughter (or send Aylin to talk to mommy about it) or "I guess I'll find a wizard to cast plane shift and go talk to my daughter myself" or at the most extreme "I guess I'll kill myself and be reunited with my family in this setting where everyone knows the afterlife is verifiably real and worshippers of the same god will be together. Even ignoring all of that, after all the idiotic decisions that he had to make in order to become a Shar worshipper, his OWN journal records that he's still miserable because Shar hasn't actually done what she promised and removed his memories of Isobel. THEN STOP WORSHIPPING HER!

[@HQbaracuda]

@@Melth Man, Ketheric really does not work in this setting, is he? 😀I totally get what the writers wanted to sell us with Ketherics journey and it makes sense in a traditional way, where believe is something more obscure. But yeah, if you think inside this world, he really should have known. But then again, he actually wasn't that firm of a believer in Selune. As I got it, he just has been because of his wife. He didn't like Aylin at all from what I got and blamed her by proxy. As far as I understoof, Ketheric didn't know that it was Shar who killed his daughter. And he did end up with a different god as we can see in the game. The fact so much stuff about death and the afterlife is superficial in this universe makes all of this be meaningless, but I do not blame the writers, because if you see the world of BG3 with less of a DnD background, you can enjoy it far better.

[@Melth]

@@HQbaracuda yeah, It's not the writers' fault that the setting is ultra high magic nonsense where there are no stakes to anything, and a spell can solve any problem. But... I do think that they could still have made the story make more sense. Ketheric turning to Myrkul is within the realm of reasonability. Myrkul promises him a logical reward and immediately follows through on it, whereas Shar not only promises him something not very helpful in the first place but also completely fails to deliver it. (And for that matter Shar is well-known for cruelty and treachery to her worshippers in universe, unlike Myrkul, so it's harder to justify anyone turning to her to begin with) They could have written both a simpler and a more logical story I think if instead of starting off as a Selune worshipper who illogically turned to Shar and then logically turned to Myrkul, he either went directly from Selune to Myrkul OR maybe have him start off as a Shar worshipping tyrant who converts to Myrkul after his selunite rebel daughter gets killed by Shar or something.

[@HQbaracuda]

@@Melth imo it is always easier to retcon something in retrospect. I definitely do not want to be stuck in the writers shoes. Creating a coherent story for a video game is hard. Especially with something like BG3 where you need to come up with dozens of dialog options for any of the stupid stuff a player could come up with 😀 really enjoy your work btw, keep it up ;-)

[@Rhakimdar]

Woo time for another video! I finally made it to the lower city in my playthrough! I created an alternate save where I fought Gortash during his ceremony and hoo boy was that a fight. I managed to get through it with only 2 party member's dying but it was probably the hardest fight I've had so far esp given my poor positioning as I started it during dialogue and everyone was surrounded xD. Also Wasn't expecting his force immunity and that caused many more issues given my main damage dealer was force! I know its a while before we get there but I can't wait to see how you handle such a fight!

[@Melth]

@@Rhakimdar that one is an epic battle alright! Possibly my favorite in the whole game. I'll definitely be making an alternate save and showing that battle

[@lnsatiabie4364]

I’ve accidentally aggro’d entire towns, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many characters in the initiative order that you have to scroll to see all of them. That’s how you know you’re playing tactically, or I guess with honor.

[@interloop]

have you not summoned 9+ reinforcement squads/units in the Netherbrain fight?

[@Melth]

I ended up not using (m)any reinforcements in the final battle since the ones I tried first were buggy and worthless

[@maelstrrom2824]

Good on you for keeping the umbral tremors around

[@Melth]

@@maelstrrom2824 just wait till next time when I'll be battling 30 dark Justiciars at once! I found a way to get them all to spawn in rather than picking them off one by one

[@maelstrrom2824]

@@Melth I'll be looking forward to that!

[@man_apologist]

in this episode, melth wrangles 3 ravens and 7 skeletons in a vain attempt to have pathing work at all. another fun ep cant wait for the next one

[@sintanan469]

The real trick is creating a party of spore druid/necromancer wizards, getting all the companions and making them also spore necromancers, then getting all ten hirelings and making them spore necromancers. Then everybody summons as much undead as possible, and ravens, and elementals with scrolls. Before you know it there's over 300 minions in your camp because summons don't despawn when you cycle a character out of the party as long as you don't long rest.

[@Melth]

@@man_apologist the army will only grow 😂 I'll probably have fewer summons this time than on my last run though, now that I know which summons are actually good and which ones aren't worth their space

[@atlas3104]

Phew!! After 2 weeks since discovering your amazing channel, ive finally caught up with this absurdly entertaining series... Im speechless, insert overflow of complements here... I guess i should add a suggestion to not just send a generic comment haha! Im currently attempting my Jack of All trades run. Im a casual with 80 so hours in the game, but im absurdly fond of combat tactics in complexes games like this. My idea for my JOAT run was to have my main character doing the challenge.. and having an absurdly strong party to carry me in difficult combats. But that got me thinking... what would an entire party of heros all doing different variations of JOAT look like? I dont know if that idea would be entertaining, of if it would just lead to Eldrich Blast and Rogue shenanigans, again, not a lot of deep knowledge. Thanks for the amazing content, love from brazil

[@Melth]

@@atlas3104 thank you very much, I'm glad to hear you like the series so much! I'm not sure I understand: what is a 'jack of all trades' run? Is that where a character has 1 level in every class? If so, Eldritch Blast will not be THAT strong because you can't get Agonizing Blast, but it will still probably be one of the best attacks overall. Especially with Potent Robe. Another thing to note is that because there are a lot of spellcaster classes in the game (wizard, sorc, cleric, druid, bard) you will have access to 3rd level spell slots. *Possibly* 4th. I'm not honestly sure if ranger's 1/2 + paladin's 1/2 will count as +1 In any case, the important thing is: with your 1 wizard level you will be able to learn up to level 3/4 spells from scrolls. Giving you some pretty strong spellcasting. Above all though, consumable items will be your friend. Any character in this game can be incredibly powerful by just casting high level scroll spells, summoning creatures and giving them elixirs, using speed potions splashed on the team, shooting smoke powder arrows, etc.

[@atlas3104]

@@Melth yep JOAT is a steam achivment! also tysm for the tips

[@lendial]

morning lord's blessing is exactly why I never let the portals spawn more exp mobs. I just don't want to spend spell slots to get rid of them.

[@Melth]

It IS a bit tedious depending on your party, but I think by this point in the game one has access to enough bombs and scrolls and whatnot to clear them decently well

[@Cebollaverde]

“Stinking pile of ogre afterbirth!”

[@Melth]

@@Cebollaverde Balthazar is so gross

[@jampk24]

Maybe someone already mentioned in the comments here, but you can also shoot those Shar lights at the beginning of the gauntlet with Ray of Frost and it'll put the lights out. Much quicker than hitting all the levers to lower the lights.

[@Melth]

@@jampk24 a good tip!

[@louishealy2696]

Thanks for the content. Please do Age of Mythology Retold!!

[@Melth]

I'm working on it. I played the first mission today and I'll try to record a 0 casualty run of it on titan. One thing that's holding me up is that in the original run I started with the tutorial and explained a lot of the core economic mechanics the game just doesn't explain... but it seems like now the game doesn't even really have an economic tutorial at all!

[@jaxsonfanta5420]

“I guess he got it on his second try..” lol.

[@Melth]

@@jaxsonfanta5420 imagine if it had taken him THREE tries and he'd worshipped some other random god who was as useless as Shar!

[@MrBlitzballer]

The dark justiciar ghosts dropping tiny darkness clouds are just enough to make fighting in the hallway annoying with ranged attacks which is why I prefer to just stand in the room with them and kill them as they spawn.

[@Melth]

@@MrBlitzballer yeah, I came up with a great countermeasure to it which I'll show next episode when I'm fighting 30 of them But in this episode I didn't know they had the ability because it's not written down anywhere on them and the darkness wasn't appearing visually 🤔

[@wekashipo7507]

Why didn't Ketheric just pay Withers 200 gold to bring Isobel back? Is he stupid? I actually never realized that fight was a secret. I've always run into it in my playthroughs. In tabletop, it's difficult terrain to shimmy through an ally's space rather than impossible. I feel like BG3 could've benefitted a lot from adopting that rule. The pathing and the way summons obstruct your own ability to move in combat really makes the summoner playstyle a pain in the ass.

[@curlyfryzzz1]

Not gonna lie, when I read "secret dark justiciar battle" I thought it was Lyrthindor, even though that makes no sense given the thumbnail. Also way too early for that I imagine

[@Melth]

Yeah, he's coming up in a few battles! Possibly I should change the name of this one from 'secret' to 'missable' now that I think about it. Since I myself didn't find it on my previous run I *think* about it as secret, but it's on a main path, it's just permanently missable if something goes wrong

[@surfingeagle784]

It sounded like you were saying that you're planning to fight Balthazar in his starting lair. Correct me if I'm wrong. If so, the Balthazar fight is a good bit harder, IMO, if you play along with his quest and eventually agree to meet him in the Nightsong's prison arena. Not to mention, it's his last chance to gloat about all his evil plans. Although, I'm not really sure it'll really matter since you tend to annihilate bosses in the first round 😉

[@Melth]

I've actually contrived a weird way to fight him twice. I'll be doing both in one episode eventually

[@wekashipo7507]

That's probably harder if you don't beat him in initiative because you're prone to getting thrown into the void and insta-dying. But I think Melth is planning on aggroing Balthazar while fighting the justiciar portals, assuming that's possible.

[@Melth]

@@wekashipo7507 I thought about that, but I think it'd tend to be less difficult overall because the justiciars and balthazar's guys will often fight each other. Plus, then I can't fight Balthazar's army in the shadowfell. Instead I'm going to fight Balthazar's initial henchmen + 30 dark justiciars at once, and then in a later episode I will do 2 battles against Balthazar. First defeating but sparing him while killing Flesh and the Ghouls, then fighting him for real in the shadowfell with his army

[@surfingeagle784]

@@Melth Oh, OK. You're going to approach the Balthazar fight from all the different angles. Thanks for the clarification. I look forward to your next installment.

[@surfingeagle784]

@@wekashipo7507 Yeah, I don't think I beat him in initiative in my first run. So, I remember that fight being fairly tough. But I was pretty much a newb at that point and didn't appreciate the importance of initiative. My skill level has improved a lot since then.

[@paragonvice1128]

Part of me wishes that the Justiciar Crusaders would drop something cool as a reward for beating them, part of me recognizes that would actually be annoying as hell to need to *always* let the Umbral Tremors completely empty themselves rather than just break them.

[@Melth]

For maximum XP, one does need to let them always empty anyway though!

[@VinhKhanhNgo-rr5vx]

@@MelthI usually let them all out while lock pick the door to let Baz deal with them and then back stab him when he was low and wipe both side =))

[@morpheus24]

No institution can exist without ideology. The Sharran dogma makes sense (from the inside), And for the sharper edges of the dogma, there's hierarchy responsible for culling the weak.

[@Melth]

I mean, even from the inside they directly contradict each other on basic points and their rhetoric is often in direct contradiction of Shar's espoused values. So no, I don't think they make sense. Even as far as fantasy cults of evil gods go, they're incoherent

[@Bilndmann]

24:59 i had always assumed the “path interrupted” message is due to the justiciars creating a cloud of darkness upon death, but ive come to the realization that the height of the corpses is likely set incorrectly. It’s rather frustrating in these fights to have to deal with, especially when your movement is as reduced by a veritable army of summons. Edit: there are actually clouds of darkness in your game there that don’t appear in mine, at least not when I last played through this section. Odd.

[@GianniCampanale]

different difficulty? I didn't notice anithing specific in my only playtrough (standard difficulty)

[@Melth]

So with some experimentation after this video, I can confirm that they definitely DO leave clouds of darkness when they die. I'll talk about countermeasures for that in the upcoming battle against 30 of them. I must say that the game handles this terribly though. The darkness is nearly invisible, or outright invisible, and the area it affects is much larger than it appears on the rare occasion you can even see the darkness. Not to mention, it would have been good to give the creature an ability that *says* they leave darkness upon death.

[@GianniCampanale]

@@Melth I have to ask: do they leave a passable cloud of darkness or pathing is compromised as well? (if ever darkness compromises pathing as a standard rule, i really can't say)

[@Melth]

@@GianniCampanale you can walk through it

[@Bilndmann]

1:45 I always assumed it was some “coffin liquor”-esque putrescence potentially formed by necromantic magic.

[@Melth]

Yeah, some kind of disgusting, putrescent rot is probably what they were going for both here and in the Ominous Crevice area with the slimes. But all the bodies are more than a hundred years old! There shouldn't be any green ooze left, just dry bones

[@Bilndmann]

@@Melthmaybe there’s some magic at play to make it “keep” better? Although for something as small as this, it’s hard to fault the designers for not having considered the feasibility of decaying bodies not having dried out

[@Melth]

@@Bilndmann yeah, I guess it's just something I tend to think about disproportionately when running horror games.

[@MagnificentXXBastard]

@@Melth I also like running ancient undead areas in my DnD games, but i don't want just dry boneboys, so i usually have some reasons for why there are still fleshy undead even after a long time. Once it is a very cold area, with wet glacier mummy types like the famous Ötzi. Another time there is a cursed area around a portal to the negative enrgy plane, a miasma of death that saps the health of every living thing, so any microorganisms not contained within living things die quickly when exposed, and things decay much slower. Shadow curse could work like my second example.

[@sintanan469]

Could be Larian is borrowing from Eberron lore where concentrated magic leads to spells themselves becoming living things. Imagine, a whole chasm of living raise dead.

[@doloresabernathy9809]

On the first shar gem you can also misty step with a scroll to the gem and skip the traps or the hidden path.

[@martinmalic5411]

You could just ray of frost the torches in the first bit of the gauntlet...

[@Melth]

Neat!

[@GianniCampanale]

I like this serie, I was wondering how you would go on as the new patch is out. Can one keep playing his game with no issues? would you decide to start again anyway? I didn't get if you told something about it in the video (not fluent english here, I just vaguely get what you say when I listen) or maybe this recording is prior to the release

[@interloop]

Should be no problems continuing the save, assuming he runs minimal mods. My save was fine crossing over to patch 7 at least

[@Melth]

I recorded this way before the release. I've actually recorded up to episode 66 already. So only episode 67 onward will be affected by the new patch. The new patch shouldn't cause many problems for me since I don't use any mods except for one to turn off Silvanus Blessing spam in the combat logs. And of course the mod that turned this run into honor mode (As you might remember, I started this run before honor mode existed. So I used a mod to turn a tactician mode run into honor mode)

[@Guy-sb5hf]

great videos. Your mic kinda sucks tho. Ill keep watching!

[@Melth]

Hm. I have the same microphone I've had for years and I think it used to be fine, or at least better. I'm not really processing the sound in any way I think would damage it either. Any specifics on what sounds wrong about it?

[@Guy-sb5hf]

​@@Melth I think it might be the echo from where you record. Your sound comes in echoy and sounds like it is far away. I wish I knew more about sound to point you in a better direction but I know just about nil. I want to reiterate that I find your videos to be enjoyable, the sound issue doesn't erase that for me.

[@Melth]

@@Guy-sb5hf thanks, I'll see if I can find more wall decorations and maybe a rug or something. Perhaps that will decrease the echo. The weird thing is that I don't actually *hear* the echo myself when I listen to the recorded sound. It was very audible a few episodes ago when I first started recording in this room, but now to my ear it's gone. What I do hear though is that on recent videos my voice doesn't sound quite right in some other way I can't quite put my finger on. Which is weird because it's the same microphone, etc.

[@Guy-sb5hf]

@@Melth I wish you luck in figuring it out

[@melonswag420]

When we getting the aom retold treatment?

[@Melth]

Probably within a week. I played the first mission today, but it seems there's no economic tutorial in the game and I feel the need to make one of my own to demonstrate important mechanics

[@voon1032]

Hi Melth, you probably already know about it but I wanted to mention one of the hardest encounters in the game imo. I doubt many people have seen it because you need to be a real piece of shit to get it, and hand Aylin over to Lorroakan, she summons these ridiculously strong celestials called Moonlight Slivers, with some truly ridiculous abilities like a 12d12 radiant damage riposte! Guess we'll have to see what Bhaalista thinks of Dame Aylin!

[@Melth]

@@voon1032 interesting! I absolutely hated Aylin on my previous run, but on the other hand the main reason I hated her was that she kept being a less-than-worthless ally whenever I was on her side in a fight. For example, when I battled Lorroakan she spent her time murdering NPCs I had knocked out, rather than fighting the enemies that were still standing!

[@voon1032]

@@Melth I can't say I was too fond of her either, the way she kept rushing headlong into everything was a bit tiresome. Although Lorroakan is even worse XD

[@cannyvalley8522]

Ooh, I didn't experience it on lawful evil/sharran run and now I can't stop thinking about it. I suspect the hardest part is to keep Lorroakan alive or the whole thing would be for nothing