The Septuagint (This Week in Jewish History) Dr. Henry Abramson

[@boatkid888]

There were actually two versions of the Letter of Aristeas. You rendition was from the second (embellished version) from Philo of Alexandrea. The original letter states that the 72 men came together and recorded only what was agreed upon.

[@pastorchrisowens]

Thank you, Dr. Abramson for another great video- concise and highly informative. It was my understanding (perhaps wrongly) that the Septuagint was widely used among Jews in heavily Hellenized places like Asia Minor and Europe, not just Egyptian Jews. Evidence: when the Apostle Paul quoted the Scriptures, it was always the Septuagint and he was writing to Jews and Gentiles in this part of the world. Of course, Paul was also a Greek-speaking Jew. Any thoughts or clarifications on any of this?

[@OriginalR69]

You are completely correct.

[@MegaAnimeforlife]

Actually Paul doesn’t always quote from the lxx nor the gospels there’s verses that match better for the masoretic text some that don’t match to neither but most so follow the Septuagint

[@MegaAnimeforlife]

There are also variations of each verse the nt quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures as well that’s pretty significant as it shows the plurality of the lxx there was never a single standard lxx version they all vary significantly that’s why the masoretic text is deem the best text by Jews and most Protestant Christians

[@exitolaboral]

Great video.

[@HenryAbramsonPhD]

Thanks!

[@RabbiKolakowski]

out of respectful curiousity, which sources refer to the Septuagint as "writing", all of the Rabbinical Sources I have seen (which aren't too many, admittedly) call it תרגום השבעים

[@skeeterburke]

okay lemme try ... "hasavaraim targum"? 🤔 ok yeah close enough ... what does that mean?? I know targum means book ... yeah? Ty

[@claytonbenignus4688]

The Virgin Birth, the Longevity of St. Simeon, a Septuagint Transcriber who lived to see Christ as a baby, and the Termination of Miracles in Judaism, can be taken as three signs that authenticate the Septuagint over the Talmud.

[@HenryAbramsonPhD]

I didn't know there was a competition.

[@rayhilchey6706]

This is a topic that truly interests me, thank you for your take on it Dr Abramson. Lacking proof of any earlier Hebrew writings it seems more a matter of your need to conjecture any earlier Aramaic source. The number 72 is is interesting, 72 is the number used to calculate the rate at which capital doubles with compound interest. However that requires a base 10 numbering system while the Babylon system was a base 60. What numbering system is used in the Torah?

[@womanofvalour6601]

Josephus says the 72 = 6 elders from each of the 12 tribes, but even in his parlance it was known as the "translation of 70".

[@internetUtuber]

He doesn't mention the appocrypha included in the LXX. And he refers that Jerome used original "Hebrew" or Masoretic text developed after the time of Messiah. Masoretic text changed a lot of the LXX verses that showed Jesus Messiah. The recently discoved dead sea scrolls show a more faithful rendering of Hebrew thought in LXX and not the unbelieving tweeks and bias put into the Masoretic concerning the Jew, Jesus the Nazarene. So Jerome did not consult "original" Hebrew. He consulted unbelief Hebrew slants, such as the verse mentioned about Isaiah, the sign, the virgin will conceive, which the know everthing individual thinks "original" unbelief Masoretic says, the young maiden with conceive. Personally, it's more of a sign that a virgin conceives. And since, LXX predates the coming of Messiah, it's likely to be without bias agenda.

[@DavidHerman33154]

Thank you dr Abramson! I thought that we could Lein (read ceremonially) from the Greek translation as well as from the Hebrew. This would imply more importance to the Septuagint than your video implies.

[@DavidHerman33154]

***** www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah,_Tefillin,_Mezuzah_and_the_Torah_Scroll.1.19

[@devingentry3699]

I read in Yiddish Civilization by Paul Kriwaczek (a journalist from what I understand, so I don't know how thorough his research was) that there was likely some linguistic division between the Jewish communities of Rome and elsewhere in the Roman empire where some synagogues were exclusively Hebrew and others were either in Greek or a combination of Hebrew and Greek. Do you know anymore about this or if the Septuagint was ever used by Jews for purposes other than study?

[@devingentry3699]

***** Do you know if the Septuagint was ever used liturgically by Jews? I seem to recall hearing something about this or about highly hellenized Jews advocating for it. Kriwaczek thought that the Greek language synagogues may have been more likely attended by proselytes who were educated (i.e. Greek speaking) Italians or Greeks and didn't want to go through he added trouble of learning another language for it much like what presumably happened with Christianity in Europe.

[@Diamondkiwi14]

Thank you!!!

[@HenryAbramsonPhD]

You're welcome!

[@heathermarble7916]

do you have a suggestion for the best bible version?? I feel a lot of things can be lost in translation...

[@paulwomac9647]

The Septuagint is the best. God's law has been hidden in Modern Translations. If you read for example Isaiah, You will find many verses in reference to God's Law.

[@heathermarble7916]

I am not Jewish, but which version's most accurate

[@plarks-guddaboyz]

I am no scholar but I personally would advise if you are looking to read the Tanach(Hebrew Bible) you purchase a Chumash(5 books Moses) or an Artscroll or JPS version of Tanach are good translations in my opinion & are among the commonly used by Jews.

[@yonatanbendavid7777]

Excellent video

[@WoundedEgo]

Should we presume it was written on papyrus scrolls?

[@HenryAbramsonPhD]

Hmm. I don't know.

[@AlphaOmega888]

We debated this topic on voice chat for many nights for hours. Reform, Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Messianic's, Kairites, and of course, King James only evangelicals. We debated the LXX, Mesoratic, Tanakh, Chabad online version, DSS, Lexicons, concordances, and everything else in between. Let me just say. At the end of it, *all of us were disappointed* and let down and felt betrayed. Especially the King James people and some Kairites and Jews. On the last night though they felt better because we were all God smacked so it was even. We basically concluded that there were 'large forces' at play and it was likely meant to be how it is today. Tower of Babel - Bible versions. Totally makes sense as God is like this. One version limits Free Will and discussion. The Greek Orthodox people fared well though but it's the least helpful for Christians actually. But, if I had to say who left with the biggest grin, it was definitely the Catholics. The Church officially backs the Vulgate. The only 'trick' with the Vulgate is there's a bunch of them, and all Bibles that claim they're the Vulgate really aren't. There's 1 'true' Latin Vulgate in English and thank God it's available. It was taken from a real Catholic Church in the UK and copied *directly* from Latin to Middle English. This was in 1382. It was then updated into modern English extremely conservative. Today, this treasure is truly a one of a kind called Wycliffe's Bible. *Only the Wycliffe* Bible is the only authentic Latin Vulgate. Not even the 'Latin Vulgate' in Latin is authentic. Read the below thinking of a 'groundskeeper willy' Scottish accent: Wycliffe Middle English 1382: Exodus 19:5-6 Therfor if ye schulen here my vois, and schulen kepe my couenaunt, ye schulen be to me in to a specialte (specialty) of alle puplis; for al the lond is myn; and ye schulen be to me in to a rewme (*'realm'* - wow very accurate word) of preesthod, and `ye schulen be an hooli (holy) folk; these ben the wordis whiche thou schalt speke to the sones of Israel. Proverbs 3:5 - Haue thou trist in the Lord, of al thin herte; and triste (trust) thou not to thi (thy) *prudence*. (wow. 'prudence' middle Enlgish definition: "wisdom to see what is suitable or profitable", "wisdom to see what is virtuous;") Wow. The older I get, I break down my stubbornness idol, but I build a new 'prudence' idol. It's easier on the nerves, but I don't want the prudence idol blocking my vision heheh

[@VASI_LIKI]

TakeSomeAdvice Can you explain why the Orthodox christians / least helpful for christians?

[@Maeroa145]

Amazing

[@heathermarble7916]

so if I want to be most accurate, read the Sept.

[@raymack8767]

The Masoretic Text (MT) was an alteration of significant portions of the Square Hebrew Old Testament that began early (noted by the Talmud and Mishnah showing conflicting texts, contradictions, and multiple competing rabbis making alterations) though Jews also used the Septuagint (translated from the Square Hebrew around the mid third century BC), and older than the MT; The MT are hardly original scriptures anyway. See Jeremiah 8:8 (Septuagint) concerning the MT. Paleo Hebrew, used from the 12th to 6th century BC (around 2000 years older than the MT), gave way to Square Hebrew (around 1300 years older than the MT), which then eventually gave way to Greek, as evidenced by the Septuagint, which is around 1000 years older than certain MT portions. The Septuagint predates Christianity, used when Greek became the lingua franca, and its use in synagogues by Jews around the Mediterranean was substantial. Paleo Hebrew, Square Hebrew, and the Septuagint (LXX) within the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) preserve the originals, and overwhelmingly disagree with the MT in numerous instances. 1.) Exodus 1:5 in the DSS Square Hebrew agrees with the Septuagint against the MT that all the souls from Jacob were 75, not 70 which the MT claims. 2.) The older Square Hebrew in the DSS agrees with the Septuagint against the MT for Deut. 32:8-9 in using Sons/angels of God and not sons of Israel. 3.) The Square Hebrew in the DSS for Deuteronomy 32:43 lines up with the Septuagint against the MT. 4.) The Septuagint for 1 and 2 Samuel are backed up by 3 DSS and the MT is known among scholars as botching 1 and 2 Samuel badly. 5.) The MT wrongly has Saul becoming King at age one and ruling for two years. 6.) The MT actually left out an entire line from a Psalm that the Square Hebrew and the Septuagint preserved, thus the so-called masters of vowel memorization not only forgot vowels but also consonants. 7.) Psalm 40:6: a messianic proof text for the Incarnation: The MT: Thou hast dug out my ears. The Septuagint: A body thou hast prepared for me. 8.) Concerning another messianic psalm, Psalm 22:16/17, the DSS Square Hebrew and lines up with the Septuagint against the MT. 9.) Baruch, Sirach, Tobit, and Psalm 151 are written in Hebrew in the DSS. 10.) ▪︎The chronologies of Genesis 5, 11 of the Paleo Hebrew and the Septuagint line up against the MT. ▪︎Literary sources before 100 AD line up with the LXX not the MT on this: Josephus and Philo (30/70 AD) did not use the Septuagint to come to their conclusion that lines up with the Septuagint. ▪︎Eupolemus, the Jewish 2nd century BC historian's chronology, comes close to aligning with the Paleo Hebrew and Septuagint and not the MT. ▪︎Jewish Demetrius the Chronicler's (3rd century BC) chronology comes very close to the Paleo Hebrew and Septuagint and against the MT. ▪︎biblearchaeology.org/research/biblical-chronologies/4349-mt-sp-or-lxx-deciphering-a-chronological-and-textual-conundrum-in-genesis-5 Since synagogues around the Mediterranean used Septuagint and Square Hebrew, even in Palestine, Greek was the lingua franca, Jesus grew up near Sepphoris where Hebrew and Greek were both spoken and where Joseph could ply his trade, Christ quoted the scriptures, spoke to the Syrophoenician woman, and Mark/Luke were written to Romans/Greeks, some will be hard-pressed to prove Jesus used only Hebrew. Concerning key messianic scriptures, Catholics, Copts, Orthodox, and Protestants see that the leaven of the rabbis and then the Masoretes seemed to target scriptures that point to Jesus Christ. The Paleo Hebrew, Square Hebrew, and the Septuagint all agree with each other against the MT far more than they disagree, thus the starting point is to sideline the MT. There are dozens and dozens of instances where the, Paleo Hebrew, Square Hebrew, and the Septuagint agree against the MT: By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let every word be established. Deut. 19:15; 2 Cor. 13:1.

[@marmeemarch7080]

Swanky intro music!

[@HenryAbramsonPhD]

Can't take credit. Came with the software.

[@ArtorGrael]

Ptolemy Philadelphiusl was commissioning similar works in the Greek language from all the surrounding civilizations. This a a pagan king's project. Not a principally Jewish project.

[@ribbeshdd5338]

The original Septuaginta was ONLY the Torah=the 5 books of Moses. It got destroyed in a fire. The subsequent translations of the Tanach were made by different church fathers "to whitewash the evidence" of the purposeful mistranslations of the NT writers, interestingly all these subsequent translations were also called "Septuaginta", try to guess why?. The Septuaginta of today= churchfather's commentary with the wrong translations (e.g. eleven of Matthew etc).to make it appear more christological.

[@TheAngelin2000]

the book of Ruth , its the only book does have God or God name in it . Also its the only book not found in the Red Sea scroll . in the gospel , don't mention it. Why this book is part of the bible, and the other book, like book of jubilee. or the book of Enoch ?

[@PythonPilgrim]

I think you might have meant the book of Esther. As to why it is considered canon and other books like Jubilee or Enoch aren’t might be another great lecture for Mr Abramson... ;)

[@TheAngelin2000]

@@PythonPilgrim, I'm bad. is was the book of Esther. i did read the book of Jubilee and part of the book of Enoch . some things sound great but the math is wrong. or the story's don't match the bible story's

[@goldengun9970]

Enoch. Essences. Gnost8c cult. It isn't the enoch from enoch'a time. Not a text we are interested in.

[@mitzvahgolem8366]

Strange how gentiles won't accept the fact that the Tanakh was originally in Hebrew /Aramaic and seem to have debates regarding which European kings version is the "real' one...as if JC or Moses were from Rome or england...lol.Some even claim we changed the christian version and they have original!!! Crazy...Shalom

[@patrickjohnson7592]

There many black Jews, who could speak, and write Greek.

[@chrisconnor8086]

The legend sounds like a red flag…. Strange that we dont have torah copy that is older than the septuagant… sounds like a legend made up by men who wanted to make hebrew a more relevant language

[@heathermarble7916]

NIV king James

[@jrutt2675]

Cepher Bible! It cost $500 dollars but is the most accurate bible in English!