The Seraphine Problem

[@thesuperthingymabob8209]

don't forget corporate trying their hardest to make a relatable twitter person who goes through real mental issues, all to sell skins to people

[@Nortunie]

@TheBuragi Yeah it’s something that i’ve been rlly upset with. The champion was designed to be part of Kda and be the the perfect cash machine for Riot, but it feels like they put so much work for everything in this new champ except for the actual gameplay of the champion. Riot has been marketing this new release like no other champion thats been released, and at the same time she feels so out of place in the league of legends world compared to every other champion. Her marketing was riot making her relatable and like an actual human person, but in the end of the day it’s just a bunch of dudes in their late 20’s making all the captions and art

[@Waterrd]

The perfect bait for their player base

[@Stan_Crimes]

Yeah that's some really scummy stuff right there

[@esaualfaro3447]

This is one of my biggest problems with Seraphine lol the champion in Runeterra is way too forced and has nothing special, because the real Seraphine is the KDA one... and she's so brutally fake and unappealing.

[@Ismail-ri2po]

Idk why but I think the ppl that are behind her twitter have the same personality as that women in the show called the boys Who only think for marketing and image

[@Shedan5.]

Seraphine is actually Sylas 2.0, but instead of stealing your ultimate, she steals your entire kit

[@LovelyLina034]

Spot on!

[@saihealsaikoolal4975]

Wait, people were predicting this immediately after he came out. How did we not see this earlier?!?

[@FuckTheNewAliasSystem]

But only if you're Sona too.

[@epser5842]

This is amazing.

[@therealicyqueen]

Good one 👌😂

[@y_matter3368]

One of her quotes when she encounters Skarner reads : “I miss your kind too, Skarner. Would you like to hear their song?” Skarner’s race, the Brackern, are a gestalt consciousness/hive mind species and each of them are a host to a magical crystal which retains their identities - their memories, hopes and dreams and essentially, their consciousness. Not just theirs, but of every single Brackern that came before them who possessed the same crystal, as when a Brackern dies, its crystal is buried so that the younger generation may inherit them, and take up the mantle of all those who came before. One day, however, humans came along and, through rather brutish means (wanton murder), harvested these special crystals before fleeing, chased off by a single Brackern who awoke from the dying screams of his brethren. Skarner was able to defend his people, but, even among the survivors, he was alone. As being a collective mind, the pain inflicted upon his people was felt by every single Brackern, so deep was the trauma inflicted upon their psyche that they were reduced to a state of comatose. Skarner spent the next few weeks in mourning, until he heard a faint echo call out to him, imploring him to act, thus he set out eastward. The hextech crystals the piltovans and some zaunites use ARE the Brackern crystals. Gemstones that house GENERATIONS of the Brackern kind’s consciousness. Seraphine isn’t the only one who is guilty of this. Ekko’s Z-drive, for example, works by breaking the crystal and letting it re-form every single time he pulls the cord (as pointed out by u/MooseMaster3000). I believe this can be excused, however, as there is no indication that Ekko realizes what he is doing. Nor do any of the other Piltover and Zaun champions ever interact with Skarner in any way. But Seraphine does. And Seraphine knows. We can infer from her quote that she knows what the hextech crystals are... and yet she doesn’t seem to care in the slightest. Quoting from her biography: “(...) to her, everyone matters - especially those who are struggling.” Yet she has made a conscious decision to utilize the crystal WHICH SHE KNOWS houses the minds of the Brackern to power a MUSIC PLATFORM for her OWN BENEFIT. This speaks VOLUMES about her character. And it does not paint her in a good light whatsoever from a lore perspective. TL;DR: Seraphine is a dangerous sociopath the likes of which could even make Jhin feel sick in the stomach. EDIT: As of November 4th (the day that I'm writing this), Seraphine has already received minor tweaks to her lore, so consider my rant above to be outdated.

[@MrPepperJams]

Yeah I don't think there was alot of thought put into her character design lore wise, or even looks wise (alot say her base skin doesn't fit Runeterra, never mind Piltover or Zaun) or at least not alot of "thinking each idea through", the whole "she is aware of what the crystals are and asks Skarner if he wants to hear there song" sounds like a short sighted "she is trying to comfort him by letting him hear a song from their souls" but in fact didn't think it through enough to realise without putting in any lines about how she feels about these crystals or that it makes her feel sad or well anything really makes her feel very cold and careless and honestly saying "would you like to hear their song" in this context is almost a taunt. Anyway point is I think riot jumped from new idea to new idea without really thinking any of these ideas through enough to realise what they can mean.

[@ogrynmod1765]

I'm sure Jhin would let go...he isn't THAT EVIL

[@alainmarroquin5742]

Since you seem to know a bit about this, the Cristals are still alive, say if you give the to skarner, would everything be fixed or what?

[@y_matter3368]

@@alainmarroquin5742 It’s complicated. Firstly (and obviously), it wouldn’t revive the Brackern who were killed, and I don’t know if bringing the crystals back would awake the rest of the Brackern from their state of comatose. On the other hand, Piltover’s ENTIRE economy revolves around these crystals and, more recently, their synthetic counterpart. If you returned every single crystal back to Skarner, the city of progress would be left in shambles, not to mention that some champions (e.g. Camille) literally need them to stay alive. There’s no easy solution here. The piltovans unknowingly got dragged into this mess and now their whole city is being powered by the souls of the innocent.

[@bromaahlol1910]

THIS. ALL OF THIS

[@luc9816]

When the newest champ starts with more skins than Orn has after years of fighting on the summoners rift.

[@laranitaloca6913]

Dont forget aphelios u_u

[@sebastiansjurseth-bergsvik9499]

La Ranita Loca Aphelios has only one skin because he is only 1 year old. As well as making a skin for him would take a lot of effort bc of his weapons

[@colddorito]

Yeah aphelios isn't in dire need of a new skin like some of the others

[@F-Fer]

Sett has 2 skins

[@colddorito]

@@F-Fer ok and? Good for him. I'm saying that newer Champs don't NEED more skins, that doesn't mean they can't have any.

[@TheMuscle97]

Seraphine: The Most Forced Champion in league history

[@somerandomgamer8504]

Never before have I seen such shoe-horning in League

[@AzazelSylphson]

Yone has entered the chat

[@zacharybreen8891]

@@AzazelSylphson at least i can tie yone to ionia seraphine why dies the equivalent of an e girl wxist i runeterra

[@AzazelSylphson]

@@zacharybreen8891 he’s dead, seraphine isn’t.

[@neostep7062]

@@zacharybreen8891 i mean shes from piltover , you know the city all about science, also apparently shes able to hear the souls if you didn't read her lore

[@CharlieMarig0ld]

Seraphine is made out of: 90% Sona 10% Zoe 0% Original ideas

[@anyaa667]

And a little bit of Belle Dephine. You know... for "flavor". But fr champs like Jhin were made out of passion, while sera was made for making money. It's sad ngl

[@crystallconstellation3199]

Neeko

[@Nymphaea01]

Wait then what is Samira lol??? Come on if you don't like Seraphine don't buy her

[@BoopaKing]

@@Nymphaea01 Samira has one of the most hilarious "oops" things in League in my opinion. I'm not talking balance or anything like that, I'm talking about the fact that Katarina's ultimate is called Death Lotus (Refers to shooting guns wildly in every direction) while throwing knives around. Now we have Samira, who performs an actual death lotus and they call it Inferno Trigger because of Katarina. But yeah Samira's just Katarina and Yasuo's disgustingly overpowered amalgamation.

[@vinnie906]

@@Nymphaea01 good idea. I prefer playing Sona anyways.

[@randomname8616]

My biggest 4 issues with Seraphine are that: 1. The entire promotion for the champ was not for the champ or her lore itself, but for an alternate skin universe/skin line. Fully embracing the "we only care about the money" 2. Her kit combined with her thematic is too similar too Sona, which is especially underwhelming since she was hyped up so much 3. They tried to make her "relatable" by pretending she has mental health problems, all for the purpose of selling a skin 4. She will get an **ultimate skin** on release. Like ???

[@DefCatofficial]

Ultimately it comes down to why they made the character. Seraphine was made for money, end of story. If you want to make genuine art that is unique , you can't be thinking about the end product / success. You have to be focused on what you're making only and the process of making it. Seraphine is what you get when you just look at what sells and not what matters. I hate her

[@CodenameMood]

So, targetting very desperate and lonely people, weebs and stans? You got that right.

[@antonisnicolaou9212]

Every champ was made for money. They made the champ kit and then they skin this kit, in a way that will sell, they have the data. Thats why they make less monster champs, they said it them self monster champs sell less. Am not against that because its a free game and they always have to make more money. The champions always turn out looking good, and ofcourse their kit is whatis designed first, which at the end thats what matters in a game, the gameplay. Even tho i have to agree to much human champs makes it kinda redundant,and personally am a fan of monsters designs, but you can't have them all (i play all champs and i doubt they will ever make a champ that i will not like/ play for any reason)

[@DefCatofficial]

@@CodenameMood more like preying on them. People like that need help not more of this seraphine crack

[@CodenameMood]

@@DefCatofficial Hey man, they are going to dump their money on the new champion, not mental care.

[@儀水鏡の妖怪霊]

@@CodenameMood Mostly stans. There's a reason her "insecurity" was shown on Twitter, to make her "relatable." Weebs prefer the Star Guardian skins.

[@marcus8326]

I don't like Seraphine, she doesn't look like she fits in the world of Runeterra at all, and she's just a Sona rework without the name

[@quinmagalong6883]

Agree

[@Alice_Hamilton]

I second this. But I really like the champ and the idea and how they have portrayed it. But I also liked pirates of the caribbean salazhars revenge until I rewatched the older better ones and realised it didn't fit with the other movies....tangent. Applies here. I love runeterra lore and champ lore, this time it's like a girl moved to Las Vegas to become a singer....

[@AdeptusAmogus]

She really doesn't. Like there's literally no way to spin an E-Girl looking pop star as part of the lore. Even Zaun and Piltover, the most technologically advanced of all the areas, are basically just steampunk and not even close to how they've designed Sera. The ONLY way they could work this out realistically, is if they make her some kinda Isekai'd character, or create an entirely new area.

[@hypnoticorange5586]

Agreed, what ever way you spin it a champ dressed like a modern pop star as a base skin atop a little floaty platform is and will always be out of place. Some might argue Sona might not fit in League but she is from Ionia with a seemingly enchanted ancient instrument, somewhat like a bard. The technology aspect of her just seems out of place in this world. It just seems like the case of Akali and Diana before the Akali rework, both kits were very similar except one had more mobility and the other more survivability, it just begs the question if it's actually different enough to be worth it. A cat on a floating book somehow fits a lot better in the universe than Seraphine does. Plus the Twitter thing was just straight up creepy.

[@Siecyl]

This concept art was Way better than what we got pbs.twimg.com/media/EkJJbTHX0AEF1sI?format=png&name=small

[@chakradarrat8832]

I'm just mad at her for ignoring the death of skarner's people. THeir comatose bodies are the batteries of her tech

[@bioticvale_2802]

She isn’t. She hears the Voices in the Hextech Crystals and felt pity for them it’s even stated in her champion insights.

[@chakradarrat8832]

@@bioticvale_2802 she still uses them to power her tech.

[@adityaranpura3431]

@@chakradarrat8832 And sing fkin K-pop. It's plain disrespectful.

[@doomdoot6731]

@@bioticvale_2802 that's even worse, man. She is actively aware of the torment they go through, yet she still uses them to further her own popularity. It goes entirely contrary to what her design is supposed to be - she is supposed to be fun and upbeat, but her story is low-key turbo fucked up.

[@lizlikespink1052]

@@doomdoot6731 I see what you are saying. She can hear the voices, but does she know that where they actually come from? If so, that would indeed be low-key turbo fucked up.

[@Dendaliion]

The whole 'give her mental health issues to make her relatable' killed it. people suffer. People kill themselves and rito makes an eloquent marketing stunt out of it. Nope. Nope. Nope.

[@Nymphaea01]

yeah that was fucked up to a T, like that's not how one should market a new champ and make them relatable and it's worse that it came out of the blue

[@lil-lamblamb3575]

Wait they gave her a mental health issue?? I never heard about this. That’s just so insulting

[@lighthawk3720]

Keep this in mind. If it works. Riot is not to blame... That's all I'm going to say

[@victort.2583]

​@@lil-lamblamb3575 I don't think they ever said "This is Seraphine, and she has anxiety and depression," but the social media campaign they used to introduce her had a lot of posts saying she was losing motivation, or she was at a low point, or she felt isolated, etc. It still feels manipulative because it sounds like it's targeting people who genuinely have these insecurities by suggesting the skin is able to understand their problems when it's a cosmetic piece. Even if it "works" and it makes money, it can still be shady - several marketing practices "worked," but are unethical and eventually became regulated (e.g., subliminal messaging, product placement, children's media, lootboxes).

[@bokan1056]

A Ricecorn in China fell on the Ground. RICE!!!! IN CHINA!!!!!

[@lunaa55]

I feel like seraphine's character design is a bit lacking. She just looks like another generic conventionally attractive female character to me

[@lunaa55]

@The average teenage girl. المراهقة العادية yess exactly my thoughts! For example I would love to see more female characters that are creatures, animals, non humans and not just a 'sexy version' with very obvious female anatomy like breasts, curvy bodies etc. An old female character would also be very nice, I feel like in video games in general you get a lot of old male characters kicking ass but not a lot of female ones.

[@donnut4668]

Omg where have you guys been all my life!! I feel like no one ever talks about this issue!!

[@zephykelsey]

finally someone agrees with me!

[@JacqueCousteau890]

Riot really let me down with the most recent champ releases, this has crossed the line should've just updated Sona...

[@quinmagalong6883]

My sister will be happy, if that happened of course

[@JacqueCousteau890]

@TheBuragi Exactly dude, its so upsetting seeing a champ thats been in the game for so long just get absolutely shafted, For no other reason than because riot made another pretty egirl they wanted to showoff

[@aaronmeyer3664]

Exactly. Sona has THE simplest kit in the game with a very low skill CEILING. More in need of a rework than Nocturne or even Mundo imo. So they decide to lock her out of getting a rework by simply making a new champ that does virtually the same thing but better.

[@rattamytata1970]

@@aaronmeyer3664 They've mentioned a few times that Sona will stay how she is despite being very problematic as a champion because they want to distinguish her as a easy champion, despite her gameplay not being very musical. Seraphine is what I imagine an Aatrox'ed Sona would be. Seraphine doesn't play like Sona, but thematically, they're basically the same. They also have similar mechanics, both get very powerful in long fights and when people group up. Both require good decision making in terms of ability order, except Sona is more spammy, and Sona is encouraged to be spammy due to her low cooldowns, while Seraphine has a long w cooldown, so she has to be more precise with usage. Actually, I read through Sona's patch history and there was one version of Sona that really stood out to me. In it, all her basic abilities had the same cooldown, so you had to choose the right powerchord by making your decision quickly. Sona also has global cooldowns, so you can't spam qwe all at once. Back then her powerchord wasn't as powerful, rather you were balancing between the stances. All her abilities had a stronger active, but you would have to wait for 2 seconds before you could switch, so your decisions really mattered (I think, and the melody bonus was basically the same), but this was pushed aside to give her better powerchords, and her heal and e in that version were very strong.

[@sweetillusions5495]

I feel like most of the latest champion releases have hit the nail on the head in terms of their thematic, but the balancing has been god awful on nearly all of them and have very obnoxious mechanics. Especially Yuumi and how they literally made a champion that lacks the key weakness of every other enchanter and expected her not to get nerfed to hell.

[@ddGrandahl]

Doesn't matter, they managed to hit their target audience of weebs and stans, and this will sadly work out.

[@ddGrandahl]

It still pisses me off to no end that there are megaloretards over at twitter that defend Sera by saying "STOP SAYING SHE'S NOT REAL YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS" Pathetic. Just pathetic

[@Seoul_Soldier]

This is the truth. They managed to find the cross over between overly obsessive weaboos and overly obsessive kpop stans and created a character for them to be their new goddess. I hope everyone bans this bitch.

[@CodenameMood]

It pains me that we have come this low as the smartest species of a whole fucking planet.

[@1greninjawolfbossdeath648]

I like anime (not really a K pop fan but I like KDA) and I am against what they did with Seraphine. We never got to know the actual champion. She literally exists for the skin. Edit: Oh I got to know the champ we are meant to show empathy for now. She's a psychopath. Don't get it wrong I love champs like Jhin but OMG Riot what are you doing?

[@badtimes4710]

This whole Seraphine bullshit are fucking planned. Its depressing. I dont know what’s genuine anymore

[@nerusumeragi47]

i hate that she gets a ultimate skin as a release skin.while other champs rarely get a skin or never. she is the entiteld rich kid wihich gets everything she wants from her parents

[@hq_archive]

Ornn still has 1 skin :)

[@djdsakas4985]

Ornn, illaoi, kayn,Shyvanna... should i keep going?

[@larv23]

@@djdsakas4985 Everyone on that list except for Shyv and Kayn is getting a skin or has gotten a skin in the last year. Kayn got his in '18, Shyv on the other hand has not gotten one since '16. yes, Sona 2.0 getting an Ultimate on release is fucking nuts, however now is not the time to bring up Riot's favoritism when they're addressing the skin problem.

[@djdsakas4985]

@@larv23 they said that shyv is getting one? That i didnt know. Im fully aware they are working on the skins (like kindred for example) but there are some who unfortjnately have not been touched in so long its sad. I just listed some which my friends regularly complain about

[@kitnal4143]

@@djdsakas4985 Kayn has two and one of the better legendaries. Ornn and Illaoi are confirmed for a skin and Shyvana should get a rework... eventually. Even this new patch is giving skins to desperate champs like Aatrox, Amumu, Elise and Sivir.

[@adamclarke1726]

Seraphine was flawed instantly because she started completely unaffiliated with league and riotgames at all, other than making a cover of the last KDA song. There was NO interaction between her and riot which did nothing but generate mystery which is the only real reason she grew online so fast. The leaks from the past by a LPP streamer basically told us everything about this "music based" champion and she feels so rushed for worlds that its nothing more than a cash grab with the skin on release being one of the bravest things I have seen riot do. However she falls flat when you realise that the persona online is; 1) completly disconnected from the ingame persona 2) has a team of social media analists making her the perfect viral bomb 3) faining mental health issues or something not too dissimilar from imposter syndrome that they are basically parading her as this young upcoming star when the decision for her was clearly made the second KDA blew up. The champion in time will get a strong rework or ability change to make her a good champion but this stain will be one that is VERY hard to remove. People forget ryze reworks, people forget that galio used to be blue, people forget that old poppy used to just ult the least fed person and become unkillable, But this issue is more than just a poor champ, its a poor marketing decision too. This is only the most recent issue in riots history and I do not feel it to be the biggest. However it is the most vocalised due to how BROAD of an issue it is.

[@Vizible21]

Poor marketing decision? Last time I check it was the best marketing style Riot haa ever made? Oh.. and that mental health issues thing? When did they said she has a mental illness? When? I saw a lot of people saying that but when? Just because something said " I'm insecure and lonely" is not automatically a mental illness.. Thats the reason why mental illness is not taken very seriously just because of that mindset. That's coming from someone who has one. Yes her kit might be similar, yes she might be an uwu character but the point is not every character in a game should follow what you like. There are people who likes uwu character if you're not one of them then leave it. I wonder why Samira was never celebrated when she has a completely unique style.. oh because she's not "famous". ? I think all these issues come down from mob mentality. People will hate something that is trending... Smh...

[@braianbenitez1932]

@@Vizible21 you said that already kiddo. We get it you're a simp for a 3d character but stfu with all the bs yeah?

[@dragonicmon7154]

Honestly, they did so much to sell this and took it too far with making a parasocial inducing twitter account, they won't back down now. I think the champion will be different playing her vs sona, but I hate that it feels she was made as a kda member first and league champ second, she lacks any marketing as a character from runeterra and doesn't seem to fit because of it. The fact she releases with an ultimate skin based on her twitter journey show how much they really care about kda Seraphine and want to sell her as that while ignoring any proper incorporation of her in to the game or runeterra as a whole.

[@kitnal4143]

I really liked the twitter account but I think it was "discovered" too quickly. I think if there was only one person behind it (like her voice actor) it would be okay, with only getting certain things from Rito to post (pictures etc.).

[@MadContender0115]

They're running into the diversity problem, we saw it already in Yone. Of course the have good reason to reuse mechanics (similar passive with yasuo since they're brothers) since it's Lore based, but that's for one character. Lilia is mostly unique aside from having a better interpretation of a horse kit than hecarim, another movement speed based damage dealer. Samira has her unique quirks but is ultimately a better ranged interpretation of Katarina. Katarina can at least burst people more easily so that's a bonus, but samira is more flashy to play imo. All this to say that, ultimately, the last unique characters we really had were ornn-like characters: simple kits with one huge game changing mechanic. What's unique about a music-based floating aoe support caster when we already have floaty music aoe support caster?

[@diegosaez4885]

To be frank, they got into a diversity problem because they haven't added new champion designers in years, so if the designs have become more stagnant is because of a lack of designer renewal and consequentially creativity issues. Rather, we have lost designers, such as CertainlyT.

[@kitnal4143]

I don't think she was meant to be played mainly support lmao, if her heal, MS and shield are low enough her DPS is gonna be crazy with her notes passive

[@ballom29]

What about sett? Gameplay wise he's "punch me, and i'll punch you back, plus interest" wich is quite unique and design wise... KONO DIO DA !!! What about aphelios?..... that....thing Or yuumi? Is she hated ? yes. Is she's unique in lol? yes (but abathur of Hots is a much better yuumi )

[@diegosaez4885]

@@ballom29 the OG parasite support was Mina from Dawngate. Then there's the founding fathers on DotA such as Io.

[@MadContender0115]

@@ballom29 I agree with sett being a much simpler take on a champ with just punching as a mechanic. Vi has the same thematic idea but her kit is specific to gap closing, sett is a fighter and as such his Kit is different. Seph's abilities are centered around "skillshots" but they visually seem to support her allies. Sona has one skillshot, with that logic, and her abilities support her allies... As for yuumi, that's a good example too. A unique support that is tethered to an Ally, still healing and everything, but vastly different than a aoe support. Tldr: I agree with your points, there's nothing outstanding about seraph imo aside from the obvious popularity she'll gain from being an egirl in runeterra.

[@StarrChild.]

When Riot were focusing so much on her KDA skin and not her actual canon lore to the series, I knew she'd be a trainwreck. For the past few champs/event Riot have shown they do not have a clue what to do with lore anymore. They seem scared to make connections to other, more established champions with these new ones. Seraphine could have fit in to a good counter balance to Sona. Play on that classical vs modern style but instead they just fit her into Piltover/Zaun of all places for...nothing? She adds nothing. Neither does Sett, or Samira, or Lilia, despite how much I love her. It seems clear Riot have more fun working on their AU and skin line lores than the actual one. Look at the events and how much focus the skin lines get. The Spirit Blossom event was clearly the lore riot wanted to work on. Look at the characterisation that went into all of the champs, where as actual canon Skarner is just...fucking dying by the wayside and no-one is caring. I don't mind/care that a company wants to make money. I get that. I care when it starts to effect what they're pushing tho. The laziness and lack of creativity from the writers these days is just so sad to see when the actual LoL lore seemed to be moving somewhere. There will always be events for skin lines but I just wish some effort could be put into a canon event as well. Riot shouldn't be afraid to change things with the lore, make dramatic story changes. They certainly have enough money to do it despite how much they drag their heels over something simple as character voice updates. (pls riot, update Varus' voice. don't be fucking cowards to the chinese)

[@FabschOblivion669]

So we can all agree that KDA was a mistake

[@kitnal4143]

@@FabschOblivion669 never! All the music lines are really cool and bring a new dimension to the game.

[@yamiakechi]

Remember when players were called summoners? Yea Good times

[@FabschOblivion669]

@@yamiakechi now we’re called “consumers”.

[@MrPepperJams]

yeah it's a shame that we haven't seen much of this promised "progression in the world of runterra" remember back when riot said some new things in demacia and other places will start to make a change in the lore and move it forwards for the first time in years, guess they just meant the sylas stuff.

[@doot3122]

Sera seems like a cracked out Sona, I know champs like Lillia and Yone weren’t all the original but atleast they had their own identitys

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

Yone hardly does, he's just Yasuo and Zed put in a blender and they gave him a "unique" damage type (part physical, part magic) to make up for the lack of originality in his kit. Not to mention he has the same red/blue duality as Kayn and is even edgier.

[@pedrodomingues1553]

@@100organicfreshmemes5 But Yone needs to have similarities with Yasuo they grew up and studied under the same master

[@ouchiegiverjr]

@@100organicfreshmemes5 that is a really basic way of pointing out his kit in game, not lore.

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

@@pedrodomingues1553 To some extent, sure, but they don't need to be that similar because Yone is a revenant. It also doesn't excuse Yone basically having Zed R on a normal ability or "split damage" as a lazy way to make him seem unique. His kit also seems kind of slapped together to me, there isn't a whole lot of synergy to it like with well designed kits such as Fiddlesticks, Warwick, Irelia, Yasuo, Xayah, Lee Sin, Anivia, Azir, Brand, Ryze, etc.

[@pedrodomingues1553]

@@100organicfreshmemes5 Okay the Zed R is awful the split damage kinda makes sense cause he is interacting with the spirit realm

[@AdeptusAmogus]

I plan on banning her in every game I play once she drops. Honestly don't wanna deal with an E-Girl wannabe Sona or the people that simp for her.

[@hq_archive]

As soon as she releases i'm only playing draft pick, i don't care if Renekton is my hard-counter i'm banning Seraphine.

[@ShadowCrestCreations]

@@hq_archive We will all suffer our hard counters to rid the rift of this sparkly menace.

[@sinfularrow650]

we're united and we have only one cause; to ban Seraphine off the game.

[@juanbelio2057]

As weird as it sounds, I think this can be a somewhat solid way to let Riot know that we do not agree with how they have handled the situation

[@kylejmo95]

Yea I'm gonna ban her every game aswell, I normally play drafts and dont ban anyone, so banning her wouldn't only wouldn't be a problem

[@hq_archive]

I really don't like Seraphine, i disliked her before even seeing her abilities. Seraphine is proof that Riot Games is running out of ideas, even though i've seen fan-made champions far better than whatever riot shat out. They could have done so much more with her kit, given her a look that would fit the whole world of League of Legends a lot more but no, they straight up made an e-girl into a champion.

[@SokkingBTtulaj]

Yea, it would only take riot a trip to their own fucking forum to find better champion ideas than the put out in the last 2 years.

[@bokan1056]

Does anyone like Taric? Does his Design & Lore speak to you? Basically the same

[@SokkingBTtulaj]

@@bokan1056 I actually like Taric. And his lore is ok.

[@someWHALE.]

As someone who is still mad at what riot did to aatrox, this makes me even more upset that they killed the old aatrox, but release this unoriginal sona rework as its own champion.

[@diegosaez4885]

Ironically enough, both were made by the same champion designer, who's also responsible of Camille, Kaisa, the Shaco gameplay update that plagued him with bugs, and the cancelled Teemo rework.

[@stoven3087]

F to the aatrox with wacky builds and fun play style :,(

[@fhgbv]

They could've just released the new one as a different darkin and it would've worked perfectly but they're too lazy to create a new lore for it since it's not a cutesy e-girl type character.

[@ImpairedGorilla]

haha funny quirky xd auto attacks on aatrox!! peak gameplay and identity!!! xddddd

[@fhgbv]

@@ImpairedGorilla you ok there mate? Need some help?

[@carlweiser1319]

Screw Seraphine, It's October GIVE US MORE FIDDLESTICKS

[@taitrinh8650]

Spooktober time

[@morasoftwood8224]

Pumpkin amumu is something to anticipate!

[@jans.g6033]

WHERE'S THE NEW ORNN SKIN AT

[@Klycix]

seraphine poggers

[@profbrunch]

I think it’s legitimately depressing that this champ was so hyped. I don’t think that it really matters if she is a “sona 2.0” or not because that shouldn’t be the main issue in my eyes. Her twitter account feels so forced. If this kind of thing was done by some independent artist and not a company then maybe I would feel differently. As it is however, it feels too contrived and strange.

[@Seoul_Soldier]

Seraphony is what you get when a bunch of twats in a boardroom figure out how to weaponize kpop stans and weebs.

[@kitnal4143]

I am hoping that there is only one person behind the account at least for the replies and stuff, otherwise it is gross

[@neostep7062]

be aware that your saying a fictional character making twitter posts was "hype".

[@morasoftwood8224]

Low key depressing when you realize those twitter marketing hardwork from a few riot employee are bashed to oblivion.

[@luizhenrique4967]

@@kitnal4143 Probably there's a team that was hired just to make her "the most relatable and niciest girl with a bit of depression™ "

[@hypnoticorange5586]

To be honest I only heard about her here and there and I thought it was just a meme... like I thought people made up that Riot is adding that Bella Delphine lass into the game under the name Seraphine so Riot could peddle all new bath water.

[@kilos5958]

that is not belle delphine lol

[@anyaa667]

Honestly same. When I first saw her, I just thought: "naaaah they wouldn't". And, as it turns out, they (unfortunarely) did.

[@anyaa667]

@@kilos5958 well she looks a whole lot like her...

[@MalevolentDivinity]

The feeling I'm getting from this is that Riot should, potentially, consider not expanding the roster, and instead work with what's already there.

[@destinyj.5432]

You always showed so many of your personality in your videos and when you talk at like being serious level it just fills up the fact you care about League and its community

[@spark6846]

At this point i feel like riot games is dying and seraphine is just there to milk money from people with 0 original abilities

[@starlightsilverwing]

I wish they did more with the notes, it sounds interesting as an idea and pretty unique if they were the focus rather than just something stapled onto the champ

[@stanovnikcrnogcetinja1936]

i mean with the kda thing they will make plenty of money

[@fatnfurious4370]

i mean they sold the company to tencent, expect TV and KZbin ads in the style of Raid: shadow legends and "PLAY AFK ARENA NOW! WE GOT EVERY STEREOTYPE, NOTHING IS FLESHED OUT AND WE ONLY WANT YOUR MONEY FOR VISUALS WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO GAMEPLAY!"

[@shrui4219]

@TheBuragi Nah, LoL players would complain, saying it's "too difficult to understand or play"

[@anzullic]

Imagine Seraphine being a dude talking about being sad and reaching goals. Boys need love too.

[@astaroth2454]

The fact is that almost every champ has Interesting backstory cool themes and fun skills... but seraphine just looks a quick and easy way to get some cash and I don't even want to mention the fact that her base skin doesn't fit in runeterra at all...

[@JlorpersUnite]

I'm extremely disappointed in Riot for releasing Seraphine in the current state she is in. Her kit is one of, if not, the most stale kit a champion has had on release for a long time. Her lore is objectively one of the worst things riot had produced in a long time. It was clear from the beginning of Seraphine's existence that she was nothing more then a cash grab or a self insert. I'd expect this from a mobile moba, not the worlds biggest battle arena. Absolutely disappointed.

[@fatnfurious4370]

Its just a plain insult and nothing more

[@pelzebub6664]

I can't be the only one that thinks she looks like a pop star Lux skin in her basic form.

[@MrPepperJams]

The base skin really does look like a star guardian ngl, I see why some say it doesn't fit into Runeterra lore.

[@purpleturtle4688]

So here are my thoughts: 1. As a Sona main even more so now that I got DJ Sona skin I feel like her kit is just Sona, but better in every way. Her shield and ms buff is just Sona's u just don't need to wait one second in between. Her slow/root/stun ability takes what made a Sona engage good and puts it on a basic ability. While her ultimate is just an extendable Sona ultimate but as a charm not a stun. Finally her and many other passives these days seem to be just a renamed Lichbane. 2. The way they teased started out as a rather interesting idea creating a whole social media identity before an in-game one is something different. However it quickly become what's known as a parasocial relationship with the main thing being that if it ever fails no one feels guilty cause it's a multibillion dollar company. It also is just very creepy because lately her tweets have started to sound like they are trying to be #relatable, with her being all look I have a cat and I don't think I deserve all that I have, and I know for a fact as soon as she is released they'll keep up the whole social media thing for a few weeks or months before dropping it cause they got the outcome they wanted. 3. How Riot can play favourites if u have heard about her release u probably know she is getting an ULTIMATE/LEGENDARY (I don't remember which is the special one) and it is gonna function like a quest reward however once u have all the forms u can choose which form u want for the whole game in the skin select menu. At that point what makes it different from a normal skin u can choose. Also while she gets an ULTIMATE/LEGENDARY skin on release and we are getting a 2nd wave of KDA some characters haven't gotten skins in years or since release. All in all I think this is just a new elaborate way for Riot to make more money and to promote a new champ and some skins.

[@neostep7062]

sona main huh? get ready for skillshots, you'll actually need to aim with the champ.instead of be in the general vicinity.

[@purpleturtle4688]

@@neostep7062 The difference between skillshot and auto hit is not a valid excuse if the end result is the same. If one champs Q is a damage spell and they just add the skillshot onto it for a different champ it stays the same but with extra steps.

[@purpleturtle4688]

@hey guys yes but remember with season 11 coming they replaced CDR with ability haste which scales better and can get to Urf levels of cooldowns so while it's not spammable now it can be in the near future.

[@purpleturtle4688]

@hey guys that is true however even without her ultimate all she needs is a rylais or glacial augment and her E becomes a new Sona ultimate.

[@CodenameMood]

Riot should stop releasing cutesy-wutesy virgin bait champions and focus on actually unique things please and thank you.

[@LesserLordKusanali]

Oh don't worry, the next champ won't. He'll be a chonky tank that sucks the enemy's armor dry

[@saittugrulturhal]

Will you definitely buy all the skins of that next unique champion ? Or are you willing to pay monthly for League? No? Then let them earn their money for their free to play game. These skins sell, others don't

[@ogrynmod1765]

Stares at Aledros from legends of runtera whose design is 10010191010101010 times cooler and he is just a simple card"Yes....(Also he is Kalistas Husband so Cool interactions yay!)

[@mulan-jinglesemusicas1513]

@@saittugrulturhal poor riot, they are a small indie company, almost bankrupt, they NEED those e-girl skins to feed themselves ;----;

[@morasoftwood8224]

Give 👏 Skarner 👏 Abs 👏

[@somerandomgamer8504]

I really hate her. Skooch said it pretty well, but I just literally don't like a single thing about her. Nothing about her fits or is original. She's the most shoe-horned character in the entire game.

[@luckerowl8990]

lurker here: i dont think sera is necessarily sona 2.0, however she occupies her "identity" pretty much. ALL champs have an "identity" no matter how unrefined - tryndamere is barbarian, evelynn is sneaky seductress, twitch is a rat. The issue with sera is that sona shares her identity, kit wise they could be VERY different, which reav3 was right about, sera is a skillshot based champ that has to think before mindlessly spamming her kit, while sona is more simplistic having only 1 skillshot that she has to use once per fight. even if they rework sena giving her a new kit entirely they cant change her identity really as she's branded as a "musical mage" also the hype they built was WAY too much, like, you can't cocktease weebs and stans without expecting a massive fallout 76 level disappointment at the kit

[@IG40kman]

I don't really get the same vibe, theme wise. Sona is like sophisticated virtuoso and Seraphine is bubblegum pop.

[@MrPepperJams]

@@IG40kman they are still both the "musical mage" of lol as he put it though.

[@fatnfurious4370]

or to draw a Blizzard simmilarity here "is this an out of season april fools joke?"

[@jonathannaddeo2655]

Only thing I like about Seraphine is that they gave Skarner some more lore. But even then it's not directly at him, it's just the brackern crystals that get the connection, leaving him with where he started. So what I'm trying to say is, good god if you're not going to rework him, at least make a color story for the sad scorpion and not just a vague connection to other champs.

[@bornalive91]

As someone that actually suffers from depression and anxiety this pisses me off. Ya it is kinda cool they made someone that can be related to but that fact she is gonna be used as a cash grab right when she comes out pisses me off. Why cant they just do it down the road as we slowly get more and more connected with them.

[@edwinvanderhaeghen2221]

Trust me. You don't want that. I don't mean this in a rude way, but if you siffer from depression don't get attached to a character twitter. They are designed to abuse/manipulate you into buying things. Her twitter a hollow shell of tricking people who already have it tough out of their money. I reccomend reaching out to real people who suffer the way you do. Stand together with people not companies! I sincerely hope you can find joy in your future.

[@neostep7062]

can you link me where they talk about anxiety and depression?

[@bornalive91]

@@neostep7062 Go to the twitter. They dont outright say it but it is heavily implied with all the post they make.

[@_sargentocoelho_4441]

And there are people actually defending riot and their Sona egirl skinline

[@celina5076]

yes, im one of the people defending riot on this one

[@odeiofunkdeputariarum851]

@@celina5076 why would you defend riot?

[@celina5076]

@@odeiofunkdeputariarum851 because i prefer riot over yasuo and yone mains

[@Cororo96]

THey put Belle Delphine in League of legends and gave her Sona's rework.

[@Lunay543]

She's the most underwhelming and disappointing champion released ever. With a build-up like no other. It's like when ppl said Tower of God would be the best anime in existence

[@antonissofoulis6032]

This looks more like a rework version of Sona.

[@scarletred616]

Sona is one of the OG champs she deserves to be put on the spotlight and get some love

[@esaualfaro3447]

My biggest problem with Seraphine is that she was literally forced into the game JUST so sell KDA merch... There's almost no artistic value with her. TL;DR: Seraphine has the artistic value of a Happy Meal and brings nothing to Runeterra. With Yone at least they made a somewhat interesting story, expanded the lore of Iona with both Spirit Blossom and the Azakana. But Seraphine? She's literally just a girl that dances and sings. Even with her magic to hear the soul (something that Sona probably can do too according to her newest short story), she doesn't even show us a different perspective on the brackern or the hextech problem in Piltover and Zaun... Nothing, 0 value. Just buy her ultimate skin and KDA merch and that's all she's about.

[@Ozensaiop]

Hi Kiandy, resident lurker here, All of Seraphines "special treatment" compared to other champs is what gets me. Like I understand riot wanting to make money making characters, the game and the developers need that income to keep the game running but when it is so poorly done and obvious, that's when I'm upset. She has been planned for months now and I kept hearing teasers about this new champion then when they release her they give her an ULTIMATE SKIN? Like riot has no idea if this champion is actually gonna be popular or even liked by the community and they give her one of the highest teir skins they can? Not only do Her abilities themselves strongly resemble sona but she has the same "long flowy haired musical mage" theme that sona does. Then to add insult to injury they make the ultimate skin like a 3 skin entity when champs like ornn that are popular and played a lot have not gotten a skin since release, and that skin was an epic, just like EVERY OTHER CHAMP IN LEAGUE. and then what really gets me is riot acts like they dont notice the massive wave of negative feedback she is getting. And DONT even get me STARTED on her lack of lore/compatability in league universe and runeterra.

[@paulgunther-kfpclone-captain]

The biggest problem i have with Sera is that she´ll probably have more skins than Ornn 2 Weeks after release

[@MrPepperJams]

Female E-girl champ and that sells skins so yeah probably, also where is my damn Elderwood Ornn riot!

[@mulan-jinglesemusicas1513]

@@MrPepperJams Ornn would be great for a weeb skin, like a big teddy bear lol

[@bofoshow5189]

Seraphine feels like what WWE is experiencing with Roman Reigns. They built this champ up and hyped her as the golden child to carry them into the future "look shes in KDA, so love her", "Look she has mental health problems too, so relatable buy our skin", and as a result of trying to force feed us into loving her, it's actually made people hate her.

[@yourcopiumdealer3399]

I have several issues with Seraphine. The fact that her kit feels like a blatant Sona rip off on paper pains me. I get that when play testing her she feels different. But if you want people to get to play a champion they will take a look at Sona and Seraphine and wonder what the hell is the difference. I'm afraid Sona will just be the outdated version of Seraphine and will eventually be forgotten. As someone who has taken too much time out of their life to play Sona, I expected Seraphine to sound like a real singer if this was going to be a dividing factor between the two. I've been often surprised by what Riot can do on the music department, but I've been dissapointed to say the least. You'd expect to hear something that could be sung during a live performance. Some rough edges, to sing a bit more passionately, but all you're greeted with is perfect auto tune. I do not feel it fits the narrative we have been given thus far. The next huuuuuuge issue I have is the fact that we are being served two Seraphines. One of them is the "lore" and the other the "twitter" Seraphine. This is my understanding of her thus far (correct me if I am wrong): On Twitter, her stick is supposed to be this young, aspiring singer that works together with KDA that has mental issues because of all the sudden change in her life. In the lore, she is a popstar from Piltover and Zaun(where is Zaun in all this? She feels 100% Piltover) and can hear the sounds of the brakern souls within hextech crystals and forms them into songs. It's this weird tension they created when I read Lore Seraphine that actually sounds like something I'd be willing to read into. Then I remember what is happening on twitter and I just can't connect the dots. Is Twitter Seraphine KDA lore? Do you even connect any dots betwen the two? Did she ever reffer to the crystals on twitter or did I miss this by any chance? How cool would it have been to incorporate it into the twitter account that she found one of these crystals irl and is now composing her music out of whatever this spirit says? Instead we get the above. Verdict: 3/10.

[@halosinful]

This was a different video I wasn't expecting. I like this type of stuff every now and again!

[@thecubecubecube8651]

It’s like the K/DA bit was all Seraphine was supposed to serve and her actual kit was just an afterthought. I do like her concept art and lore tho (only because of the brakern shard friend)

[@kitnal4143]

my biggest issue is her clothing tbh. It is sad because her concept art had some really cool looks that worked with both themes so much better ;-;

[@wildudyr]

I'm glad you took a step back and analyzed the situation before dishing out another champion spotlight. It shows a lot of maturity in decisionmaking. In the end they won't change their champion though, it's obvious by the way they valiantly defend her and by how knees deep they are into it already. I say go through with your animated champion spotlight, do it your way though

[@defiantnight2668]

I stopped following league of legends a while ago, just occasionally tune in to see your funny animations. Hearing what they've been up to is revolting.

[@quantumhobo6681]

At first sight I was pissed at seeing seraphine, at first it was because “hey riot, stop releasing anime characters. I wanna see monster characters, ornn, reksai, mundo, and shyvanna” Then I saw the kit. Riot is just spitting in our face thinking about quick cash, it’s not about creating a cool diverse world telling stories with character releases and updates, it’s about money and acting like anew pet, creating as much trouble as possible to see where the boundaries are, and man, they crossed a big one.

[@RollingBlocks]

Seraphine feels like a marketing scheme to sell skins first, and being a champion in League of Legends second or third. Hell, even her Ultimate skin just screams corporate greed. The only time you get to change forms is in champion select, which goes against the point of Ultimate skins being able to change forms in-game, and you don't even get all 3 forms on purchase. You have to go through hoops to get them

[@kitnal4143]

the "hoops" were there due to the demand of wanting a quest-like function to them and to feel like you are earning something.

[@garrettord3304]

Personally I am happy that they finally released a new villain. It's been a while since we've had a new champion as evil as Seraphine. Her enslaves the souls of the innocent to empower her abilities. She's also aware of the dark secret of the power of Piltover that doesn't seem to be common knowledge, but she keeps that secret instead of using it to help make a positive change - all while keeping up her innocent façade. Hopefully Skarner will defeat her in an epic showdown to save the souls of his brethren and revive the Brackern race.

[@quinmagalong6883]

Also him later SERAPHINE CHAMPION SPOTLIGHT

[@thomasb5307]

Ignoring her kit, if we look at the last three midlane mages to be released we have: - Seraphine - Neeko - Zoe All of those three characters go in the same Disney-ish style category that a lot of people don't like, and I think it's normal that midlane mages players are starting to be upset especially for those who don't like this aesthetic.

[@arthurtavares3180]

Like Yone, I fell like there was a LOT of potential and hype build up, but they missed the mark, Yone's kit is similar to Yasuo's, but still different, Seraphine's is TOO similar to Sona's, there is no WOW factor, that is if we're only talking about her kit, the "marketing" strategy for her is another, much more complicated, Subject.

[@MrPepperJams]

To be fair Yone actually did have a wow factor, the anime style cinematic created hype and the ult is a classic anime stlye finishing move, sure not super original but definitely looked cool and had a sort of wow factor, also the e is kinda interesting, but when I look at Seraphine's kit I'm left wondering if there is something I'm missing that would make it seem more interesting, or as you said make me think "wow".

[@Connor.trashy]

I like sera. Not because of the twitter branding but because of her design. I've always wanted to main sona but something about her kit doesn't click for me. I feel like sera will fill that need for me.

[@TenebraePatruus]

this hype train is too forced, I want the good days of reveal, back like the Jhin stuff. deep dives into the code, cryptic hints by lining up pictures. the community trying to figure it all out. Thats the kind of think I like.

[@DriftingSands]

When I first saw the KDA skin reveal I thought it was a Sona skin. I think that Riot normally knows what they are doing, so I'm guessing Sona will be reworked or somthing?!

[@ValTheMad]

I remember when new champions were just dropped into the game without all the tease and hurrah. Maybe a cool art to go with them, but I don't see the appeal of making this big thing out of it.

[@SoundTracx]

hype = more views = more money

[@flyguy6409]

I'm not exactly a league veteran so I don't know how it feels from that angle, but from the perspective of a relatively new player who wasn't on the hype train, I find the kit to be interesting even if it's similar to Sona's. I love playing Sona, she's my favourite support champion, having a bit more skill expression in an enchanter sounds fun even if the kit has a lot of similarities with a champ that already exists isn't really a deal breaker for me. Then again, I started playing on season 9 so I'm definitely not the governing body in what is good for the game.

[@LuxasVTUBER]

*Good lord I miss Johnny Goodmeme, Kiandy please bring the lad back*

[@pockylovergirl11]

How do we go from Bard, Kindred, Illaoi............to this?

[@psycoNaughtplaysMCPC]

Yeah no they literally didn’t even try with this one, it’s the same champ but with a different coat of paint

[@sakutaro3musik486]

My Problem with seraphine is her lore. They are Telling me that skarners tortured kind is happy to be used for seraphines Music? That's BS

[@kaka20714]

I think everyone needs to just take a closer look at what exactly is going on with the Seraphine and Sona. Sure they are both music based and have some similarities, but they are set up to play completely differently. Sona is setup as a champion with a low mechanical requirement utility champion. She doesn't have to put much thought in to anything except for positioning, mana usage, and when to make use of her passive and which version to use. She has very little timing for her abilities, order typically won't matter, and the main thing you can miss out on is the ultimate which simple, wide, and, very fast. Meanwhile Seraphine actually has to think about her skills. Her skill order will always matter due to it recasting and having extra percs for each. She also has to aim all of her damaging abilities which I think a lot of people haven't noticed for one reason or another. Anyway, she isn't going to be as focused on positioning entirely and she doesn't bring as much utility and what she does bring isn't consistent. Her ult is her most consistent ability, and while it is similar to Sona's, it still looks like it will play out differently because it seems like it will be a lot more consistently dodgable because of the speed and time it takes to come out, she wants to aim it to hit allies as well to maximize her passive usage and charms have different times when they are better and others where they are worse. Now for more of a specific break down of arguments I've seen everywhere "both of their qs do damage" yes they do but almost every single champion in League of Legends has a damaging q the only exception I can think of is Taric "both their ws heal and shield and Sera's is better because it also adds in Sona e" Sera's healing is inconsistent and she is required to be beside a person to have it effect them plus the heal it delayed which makes it more useful in someways and less useful in others "they both have a 3 spell passive and empowered autos" yes however Sona has her autos focused on a choice of utility and Sera is just maximizing dps at all times and again for one spell choice matters all the time. "They're both support mages with a musical theme music" this one is just stretches definitions Sona is an enchanter which is a form of Caster. Seraphine is mage which is a form of caster. Not all casters are mages. They are both supportive casters and music based; however, I personally think (spooky opinion) that's partially because music just fits that mold better than an all out burst mage or a marksman for example. It's kind of like how we have 2 fire burst mages or 2 mechanical ninja assassins. It's just how certain themes make the most sense for certain styles. All of that being said, some of what is being said is valid, but those things aren't worthy of her being called "a mistake" or "the worst champion ever." I know people are probably just going to say I'm simping for Riot or whatever, but I don't care I've spoken my mind many times about things I thought Riot did poorly with (GGMF, changes for certain champions, reverting certain reworks, making certain reworks) I can't see a logical reason this is the worst thing they've done especially without having played her. Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted talk, and see ya on the rift!

[@EptingPurple]

this was really well put

[@albamartin8379]

Dude next time you want anyone to actually read your opinion... just space it better... xD I don't mean what you said isn't true but ffs... my eyes hurt.

[@kaka20714]

@@albamartin8379 Sorry about the spacing I was on my phone, so I didn't put much thought into appearance.

[@3v1lp1ngv1n]

haven't played league for years, this is the first time i hear about seraphine being a new champ. Saw a video a few days ago and i thought it was a skin.

[@Veraxeon]

Let's just see what Riot does with her, once she's on PBE we'll have a better idea of everything

[@Mars30999]

I think the reupload of the sona vid is funny af and u should totally do it

[@apen3493]

I can sum up the whole seraphine experience in three words: "shameless cash grab"

[@lightning1892]

From what I've heard about Seraphine, they may as well have just reworked and visually updated Sona. And the fact that she's just a fictional character talking about Mental Health issues, and pretending to be a real person on twitter whilst just being a way to sell the KD/A product comes off as if they're just exploiting people who can relate to what Seraphine (Isn't) going through. "I'm depressed, I'm not good enough, Something, Something, Consume the KD/A stuff we're producing". I know people understand she's fictional, but there will be people out there who aren't aware she's a League character, and will think she's a real person, especially since V-Tubers have taken off recently.

[@kitnal4143]

two things: I recommend you make your own decision. Often people judge too quickly based on "what I've heard". I personally don't see the similarities bar two of her abilities and the fact she is musical. Even then both of those abilities function differently. The mental health thing is odd because although I don't like that they did the "I am not good enough" thing Seraphine has never explicitly said "go buy my champion" or "get my ultimate skin". In fact, she has never broken character once. Also, it wasn't as extreme as "I'm depressed", I think they were trying to go for "how can I be good enough when I am next to my idols" and "I am working so hard". Which isn't as dodgy as pandering to an audience through mental health issues.

[@morasoftwood8224]

I swear due to her marketing failure, she’s giving “serial killer in a kindergarten” vibe. #bruh

[@Orthane]

I also thought that Seraphine when I first saw her was another Lux skin. She's the most stereotypical looking champion I have ever seen.

[@redvoid4683]

True her kit is similar to sona but in the same time its not necessarily sona

[@sowatome849]

I'm fine with it. Atleast they didn't remove a character (Bbtrox treatment)

[@ddGrandahl]

Only thing that's truly "Seraphine" in her kit is that ally gimmick, a stun on a basic ability and %health damage. Everything except those are almost like someone over at Riot needed to meet a champion quota so they lifted Sona and remodeled her. And also, every KDA member has a purpose or a reason to be in League. Akali still has her purpose. Evelynn is still a seductress without KDA. Kai'sa and Ahri are still waifus and the fuel that keeps weebs' engines running. Seraphine is nothing. Without KDA she's just a talking Sona. Her twitter is just an echo chamber of "relatability". Bard is a mystic fucking being, Sona was in the middle of the battle between Noxians and Demacians, and she healed her allies with her etwahl. Meanwhile Seraphine is there to reunite the regions with her music. Yeah. No.

[@nopenope6494]

Moakai, Ivern, Malphite: two trees and a rock... and they're still each more interesting than this corporate hoax of a character.

[@pockylovergirl11]

The designs are getting so lazy and weak

[@Meuduso1]

As someone who isn't really all that active when it comes to league but used to be back in season 3 and 4, nowadays at most a few Arams every now and then and then forget about the game again for a while, I saw the new KDA music video, still don't think much of that whole stick btw, I was really confused because I know the Lore (from years ago) and I didn't know that Sona can fucking speak now. I then asked a friend who plays the game more often than me and is more involved and was redirected here and I gotta agree on what you said. The art team knocked it out the park again and I think that it's nice to have a character who's trying to get Piltover and Zhaun back together from a lore perspective but this is literally just Sona if she could talk, like what the hell.

[@VoidMiasma]

But kiandymundi! Seraphine has massive skillshots instead of auras (well, except her heal/shield/movespeed aura)! Also her ultimate charms, not stuns! Sona doesn't charm! She's really unique guys we promise!! She also sings and everyone knows Sona's a mute, dummy! How can you possibly compare the two?

[@儀水鏡の妖怪霊]

Unironically though those 2 probably do a horrible bot lane together. Not sure if I want to try it or permaban it.

[@benslavid8791]

It feels like they designed the skin first and the champ was an afterthought

[@bioticvale_2802]

I really don’t see why it’s necessary to hate everything about it to the ground. Sona is a fosterchild from Ionia who is mute and has the etwahl following her. It’s an instrument that’s amplifying her magic abilities. Seraphine is a Zaunite who moved with her family to piltover because her parents wanted for her to have a better life. Her parents make instruments and stuff. She has similar to Udyr the ability to hear the voices or in her case songs of the people around her (udyr only Hears animals) and it got pretty hard for her the more her abilities developed. So her parents made a device to stop her from hearing those voices but the could hear the brackern from the hextech crystal which helped her use her ability and she then wanted to help people because the voices she heard were discorded. Sonas abilities are visible because it’s magic seraphines are visible because of the concept of synesthesia. Yes they both do music but so are victor and jayce inventors. And yes I don’t even want to deny that her abilities ingame are similar to sonas but they are a tad more complex and skillshots so why not just see it like that. Seraphine is more challenging and sona is a bit easier though both need no be learned to get the tweaks. I think she is hated because everybody only knows the k/da Seraphine and now that she is supposed to be in runeterra it doesn’t fit for them. So maybe it was more a mistake to reveal her like that then to design her like she is. But it’s pretty sad to see everyone react like this.

[@Bentzi_Ganot]

I would genuinely like to ask one of the riot employees that worked on Seraphine: "How exactly is she not just Zoe + Lux + Sona?"

[@davidonstreet6313]

well, sona is not a skill shot champ, sera is, they both sing and thats it

[@boggart1062]

They also use the same three ability passive, and each of her abilities are funcionally very similar to Sona's. You can have champions with similar themes or similar kits, but this really feels like they wanted to rework Sona but didn't want to deal with the Sona mains crying for their champion back a la Aatrox.

[@darkrift5657]

I think that there was a worry about this before her kit was announced, as we already had a music-based support. To be fair, her w is similar but different enough. Her ultimate reminds me of a more busted yuumi ult tho more than sona’s. With 150+ champions, it’ll be hard to make each one more unique than the last

[@davidduccuvelier]

It's just a champ for a game that is free, why people are people so unreasonably mad? Cause they have sad lives :( We all do...

[@hq_archive]

You do realize that the reason that some things are free is because we're the product right? Riot is gonna be making tons of money from just this one release, the skin costs 25 dollars and i know so many people who would get it as soon as it comes out.

[@davidduccuvelier]

@@hq_archive Yep and that's fine, thank god people like these exist. Even though they aren't the most reasonable, they make stuff free for all of us cause they spend all of their money on digital products xD

[@danielkrejcar9104]

While there are similarities to Sona, I feel that the difference in game play will be noticeable. Neeko q that only hits once (unless you have passive) and works as an execute? Sure, why not. Correct me if I am wrong, but she needs to be shielded for her w to heal her allies. So, it won't heal unless you have passive up. Which, while not entirely different from Sona, makes you actually think about it. E is kinda strange. I don't know the damage values, so I am not certain if it will be worth it to use without passive only for the damage and slow. Of course, if you can, you will always get a root. But, again, you gotta think about it. Her ult is just Sona ult, yes. But even here, you want to hit your teammates for optimal efficiency. It's not necessary, and people will mess up good ults while waiting and setting up for the great ones, so there is that. I really think the passive is what makes her interesting and quite unique. There are situations when you will find use for every double cast. Double aoe executes could be quite scary if you are trading on botlane. Shield+heal is also pretty good for sustain and protection. Double E for the snare, while I don't think it will be hard to dodge, is good for ganks other setups. But people who won't know to play her will mess up a lot with the double casts. Panic while being ganked or just losing a fight on lane will probably get you at first, and people will be double casting qs when they don't want to. So, there is a learning curve and a certain degree of management, unlike Sona, who also has management on her passive, but it is much simpler. As for the marketing.... It's sketchy. Like, i like ARGs, but the replies, the overall building of a relatable character just for the money.... It's wrong. They went overboard with this one. And the attention she got... Yeah. Wasn't this always the case? Different champions getting varying levels of hype on entrance? With Jinx having a song made and a cinematic trailer, while Yasuo just kind of.... Popped into the game? Those Champs released two months fro meach other, but the difference is immense. And that was 7 years ago. There always were champions that were more prioritized than the others. But yes, releasing such a hyped champion with an ultimate skin... Isn't right.

[@jaysun7230]

From the bits and pieces I've seen so far, this champion looks and feels like the uncanny fusion of Zoe and Sona. The impression I have of her is a skin first and a champion second. Is she supposed to be a guest-star? Imagine there comes out a new chmpion, but the whole identity of them is that they are a star-guardian. Yone is very similar to Yasuo, Samira is very similar to Katarina, Lillia is arguably similar to Hecarim and now we get a Sona rework? The Volibear rework feels more like a new champion than any of these.

[@kitnal4143]

The Samira one is a bit of a reach lmao, her ult is similar and that is kinda it. Also only the Ult even resembles sona. Her W is probably just going to be smaller stats than sona could achieve and is mechanically different because it is MS, Shield, and a potential heal instead of two separate abilities.

[@jaysun7230]

@@kitnal4143 You are correct, but I'm not only talking about abilities. And on the point of Samira, ability-wise, it's only her R and the reset dash/blink. Aside from the theme and how the champion looks.

[@kitnal4143]

@@jaysun7230 eh samira's dash is closer to Qiyana. Katarina can either go to enemies or daggers and it is a teleport. Also Katerina is an assassin of noble blood trying to prove her worth whilst Samira is a mercenary brought up in noxus after being taken from Shurima.

[@jaysun7230]

@@kitnal4143 Fair point, I think arguing against your view seems pointless. I still stand to my point of view, that Volibear is most unique "new" champion (yes it is a rework) in recent times.

[@yellowdinosaur4514]

I really like the way they announced her. It was fun speculating about who she was and what she could do. The fact that she seems like a new Sona will not bother me until I play her. Until then I will still be a little hyped.

[@bridgetb3760]

I'm late to this, but I watched Ross stream her on twitch. She seems fun, but all together more like a Sona/Neeko mash up ability wise. Far too similar to Sona for my liking. I love the KDA skin line, and I do feel like Seraphine might be a lovely addition or feature in the group. However, I feel it is entirely too ballsy of riot to make a new champion's premiere skin an ultimate. They are throwing a lot of eggs in a basket that hadn't even been woven yet. I know several people upset by this fact alone.

[@chiksnbooz]

In my opinion, there are 1 of 2 possibilities: 1) Sona is going to get a surprise, MASSIVE overhaul that'll make her completely unique and unlike Seraphine. 2) Seraphine will get an update after Worlds and after the KD/A album drops, where she'll get new, different abilities, and these will go over to Sona.

[@zombarney]

I understand that with 140+ champions you’re going to run into this problem of champion stepping on each others toes. I personally would not be too fussed if they released her as she is now then give either her or Sona a change up post worlds. But even so if her idea is her voice why not have her carry around a speaker with a mic or something instead of it just floating like Sonas Etwat? With that in mind why not make her Q fire out sound waves like Heimer W but they bounce off walls like an echo meaning she does more damage? Have her w place her speaker in areas like Orianna Q works but any ability she casts is doubled from the speaker (similar to Taric heal and stun from his tethered ally) and the speaker gets blown out (consumed) or it times out after a short while and then she has to wait for it to recharge. Have her E be a area buff/heal/shield that can once again be cast from her speaker as well. her ult does seem relatively good to me (the idea that her team amplify it) but once again it steps on Sonas toes too much so it could double from her speaker. But then again I’m not a designer of any kind and this is just my 2 scents. At the end of the day riot is a company and what they’ve done here is a very company (money first move) where they’ve decided to do something to draw attention and it feels so forced. Also kiandy do you do commission pieces?

[@DarkLunarDude]

So while I want to like this new champion, and I really do, I feel like she is just a tweaked version of Sona and that does not work for me. I have played Sona since season 3 prior to her rework and she is easily one of my favorite champions to play but Seraphine feels like they took Sona's kit, tweaked it to make it stronger then slapped it on her and give her a design based around said kit. If I wanted that, I would have just asked for a Sona update (she does need a visual tweak after all the years) and play her mid instead.

[@GameMaster00744]

2:00 Honestly, Aphelios getting released at Worlds with an ultimate skin instead of Sera would have been insane

[@Jonathan-wf8mn]

I'm holding off til launch, she's getting put into pre-season with all new items, so I don't think its off the table yet that they fully rework her before season 11, though its more likely just balance changes will be made

[@herbertuswasnixus7322]

when i first read about her kit i was excited and i really like it. i didnt think it would be tha similar to sona. for me especially the visual similarities are so strong, even a blind man could see that

[@lucarioqueenxd5736]

I literally was not prepared to believe you that she's just sona, until I actually looked up her abilities and IT WAS SO MUCH WORSE THAN YOU SAID

[@TheBanana129]

not only is her kit somewhat recycled, she is on a floating board stage thingy, which looks eerily similar to sonas floating desk thing she has going on. So many ways they couldve made seraphine feel more unique.

[@SuperMactive]

My thoughts on the champ: design wise I feel as they really could have gone a different direction with her. Sera is a popstar, SONA is a musician (now this will test how close they can get to overlapping ideas) the for me the problem stems from how seras design lock her kit in from the moment her Internet personalty started in that she's sona counterpart. Where sona wants to stall a fight and scale into the late game sera wants to start fights and lock a game down as soon as possible and with league is pushing shorter more action packed games sera will just overshadow sona in every way. Her being a bubbly cutie person doesn't over lap sonas calm cool approach. But it does draw the eye and at the end of the day her kit is better sonna so it's boiled down to why force yourself to play support (sona) when you can play any other role(sera) and be just as or even more affective