The Shroud of Turin is 100% Real! (w/ Dr. Gilbert Lavoie, MD)

In this episode of The Cordial Catholic, I'm joined by Dr. Gilbert Lavoie, MD to talk about the incredible Shroud of Turin. Dr. Lavoie, a medical doctor who has undertaken a more than 40 year forensic study of the Shroud, shares his incredible insights on what is supposedly the burial cloth of Jesus, venerated by Christians for 2,000 years.
Dr. Lavoie digs deeply into the evidence - what we know and what we don't know - and explains why everything you've heard about why the Shroud is inauthentic is probably wrong. And the evidence for why we should believe in its authenticity. It's amazing.
Dr. Lavoie is an absolute expert on this subject and shares not only insights from science, history, and archeology, but from the biblical evidence as well. And preaches a mean homily on the resurrected Christ while he's at it! What an incredible episode.
To find Dr. Lavoie's book look for The Shroud of Jesus from Sophia Institute Press:
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[@Paul-hl8yg]

The bible itself states that 'Jesus' was washed & anointed with oils BEFORE being wrapped in his shroud. So the Turin shroud is not genuine.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Where does it say that in the Gospels?

[@jeremyahnunez5539]

i think you got the pin of shame @Paul-hl8yg

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Indeed. I’m eagerly awaiting his response.

[@Paul-hl8yg]

@@TheCordialCatholic The bible states that "Jesus" was buried according to Jewish tradition.. Quote: "John’s gospel says that Jesus was buried according to the Jewish tradition. This means that the body was washed before it was wrapped in a simple shroud made of fine linen, normally a task performed by the women relatives of the deceased. There were prescribed psalms and prayers said at this time. The body was then placed on a stone shelf within the tomb." ... "55 The women who had come with him from Galilee followed, and saw the tomb, and how his body was laid; 56 then they returned, and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment." ... "39 Nicodemus also, who had at first come to him by night, came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds’ weight. 40 They took the body of Jesus, and bound it in linen cloths with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews. 41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb where no one had ever been laid. 42 So because of the Jewish day of Preparation, as the tomb was close at hand, they laid Jesus there." ... "John 19:39-40, “And there came also Niccodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night and bought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pound weight." ... "The two men had a large amount of “myrrh and aloes, weighing about a hundred pounds”, which they wrapped “in linen cloths, according to the burial custom of the Jews” (19:40)." ... "In non-canonical literature. The apocryphal manuscript known as the Gospel of Peter states that the Jews handed over the body of Jesus to Joseph, who later washes him then buries him in a place called "Joseph's Garden". ... "Pilate's sympathetic wife, Claudia, offers linens to Mary Magdalene and Mary, mother of Jesus, to clean up his blood." ... "Taharah - (Ta-ha-rah) the traditional washing and dressing of the deceased with dignity." .. Before oils were used, the body was washed in Jewish tradition. He was buried in Jewish tradition as it states & then oils used. Oils were not placed on the body without the body being washed first.

[@Paul-hl8yg]

@@jeremyahnunez5539 A pin of shame by someone very deluded by religion, is not a pin of shame!

[@suehowery1286]

The first time I saw a picture of it ...I said that's Him. The photo I seen was in The Enquirer. I cut it out & put it in a 5x7frame. I still have it to this day. ✨💕✨

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Beautiful!

[@a.t.c.3862]

Same, aged 16.

[@t.d6379]

Same here, as soon as I saw the image of Christ on the shroud His eyes looked into my soul and I felt like I knew Hinm personally.

[@johnmichaelson9173]

So you decided it was real without knowing any of the details?

[@kindredtheembraced]

Yes, the very first time I also knew it was the burial cloth of Jesus, I never believed those horrible original 1988 carbon dating results, which it turns out they (British university heirarchy) were paid off to debunk the Shroud.

[@gadaxara3593]

In October 1978 I attended a conference in Madrid given by Jesuit Father Jorge Loring on the Shroud. Everything he said in that conference, which was based on studies that had just been done on the Shroud that same year, was impressive. From the study of pollens, to the weaving of the linen fabric, to the issue of the wounds that are visible on it. The lead balls from the flagella, erosions and bruises on shoulders and knees. Strong blow to the face and nose, the wound on the side, and the wound on the scalp. Father Loring wrote a small book about his conference, which I still have. Since then, since that conference 45 years ago, I have been convinced of the authenticity of the Holy Shroud.

[@glaube3591]

These are basically the main findings, even in most recent presentations. At least, that is my impression. Isn't there any new evidence found except for the four new dating methods?

[@christophercoughlin9493]

And the evidence keeps mounting up!

[@garystanfield2274]

Beware of anything that the Jesuits teach.

[@christophercoughlin9493]

You were correct then; you are correct today. No medieval forger can reproduce a thermonuclear photograph. Nor can they do it today. The world will try and try to disprove it, but they might as well deny that the earth spins around the sun. Jesus left that evidence for those who wanted physical proof, like doubting Thomas. It's like He's saying "Here, take a look at this". If people deny the resurrection after seeing this, what they are really saying is that they really did not want the truth. They want to live as their own gods.

[@stephenphillips4984]

Don't you think all those fine details could have been added by an expert hoaxer in order to convince skeptics in the Roman Catholic Church? Such details may be convincing to believers but they fail to impress those who want real evidence that could not have been fabricated.

[@johnrestucci8269]

To those who believe, no proof is necessary.. To those who don’t believe, no proof is sufficient….

[@blueeyedsoulman]

"Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead." John 6:44-51 KJV No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[@christophercoughlin9493]

Exactly right.

[@heartofalegend]

I like how Habermas put it, "Your worldview determines your beliefs, not the facts."

[@SenorCinema]

what an absurd standard

[@heartofalegend]

@@SenorCinema Agreed, but human nature being what it is, very true, nonetheless.

[@christophercoughlin9493]

Many people don't want to know, knowing means they have to take account of their lives, leave their comfort zone, and think about the fact that Jesus is alive and with us today.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

Two reasons that Jesus' body was not washed: 1. First century Jewish law was that post-mortem blood issues has to be interned with the body. Therefore, a body which had continued to bleed after death was not washed. 2. There may not have been enough time for washing before the beginning of the sabbath at sunset on Friday. yeshu pantera

[@etalsin5693]

Great interview !!! You asked insightful questions and had helpful comments. I appreciate your excitement, smiling face and cheerful delivery. This was a superb topic that needs to be heard. Dr. Lavoie is obviously a brilliant doctor and we are blessed to hear him share his 40 years of knowledge I have listened to a lot of shroud interviews pro and con. Bottom line is that those who don't want to believe, are suppressing the truth due to pride, Rom 1:18-20 Thanks for toning down the hand movements in future interviews.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

👏✌️👋🙌

[@edukaeshn]

I tried sharing evidence of the Shroud with a pagan, and he didn't seem to doubt its authenticity, but he said, "It could be anyone." I realized then that pride, not a lack of reason nor evidence, is the primary barrier to Christian Faith.

[@Paul-hl8yg]

What a delusional thing to state. Evidence? What evidence do you have for the existence of your god? Zero! What evidence do you have for "Jesus" being the son of that deity? Zero! What evidence do you have that he is a "messiah" & will one day return? Zero! You have Zero evidence to back up your religion or deities existence. You have a belief & faith only, never forget that!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Well said!

[@Davcramer]

I've always had that same thought about the empty cross that Protestants prefer to the crucifix. That empty cross may never have been used, or may have held Spartacus or many of the thousands of others crucified by the Romans. But no, the crucifix to me has always represented Jesus, and there is no doubt in my mind that the Shroud held Christ.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@Paul-hl8yg Who’s more irrational……a Christian who believes in a God he can’t see, or an atheist who’s offended by a God he doesn’t even believe in?

[@Paul-hl8yg]

@@beverlyhurd8556 I'm not offended by non existent deities. You are irrational in that & your beliefs. It is you indoctrinated into lies & delusion, not me.

[@bretsmith5953]

I knew the Shroud Was Real and Jesus is Real years ago !! I made a Yard Statute In His (Jesus) Name ! Wonderful Work Dr. Lavoie) !

[@uptoolate2793]

Flax makes incredible, strong linen. Flax linen is not like cotton cloth. These days you can buy real linen bed sheets. Once you have a set in your hands, it will be an "ah ha" moment about the shroud of Turin as to how long it could last. A set of flax linen bed sheets should be the last set you ever buy. That's just wild. Yes, the shroud of Turin is legit.

[@brantdesmond181]

Why are there no SIDE of body images in the shroud, which you would certainly expect if a body was wrapped in it? Definately a forgery.

[@stephenphillips4984]

According to the Gospel of St John, it is a fake, because several strips of cloth and a separate face cloth were found in the empty tomb. In other words, a single sheet of cloth was never used to wrap the body of Jesus.

[@chuckyoneill9029]

Do some research sudariam of Oviedo Spain

[@evanflowforever6615]

Look at the hands. Wow! No painter in history can be that good. It is a photograph on a cloth! It is a photo. And the light source came from inside the cloth. PRAISE THE LORD

[@coveux8335]

This. In fact, even assuming the cloth is from the Medieval Ages, not even the geniuses like Cimabue and Giotto painted in realism -- let alone using radiation and in 3D!

[@brantdesmond181]

The camera obscura existed when the shroud was created. Its quite easy to create a negative image on cloth using the camera obscura. If an actual body was wrapped in cloth, it would look totally different to the 2 dimensional image seen, as the cloth would have wrapped around the sides of the body & head. There is no evidence that any body was "wrapped" in this.

[@stephenphillips4984]

@@brantdesmond181 The Gospel of St John says that several strips of cloth and a separate face cloth were found in the empty tomb. No SINGLE sheet wrapping the whole body was ever used, according to this account. Therefore, the Turin Shroud HAS to be a fake, as you say, a photographic negative created by a camera obscura.

[@chuckyoneill9029]

​@@stephenphillips4984Sudariam in Spain covered His face. People are just plain lazy and stupid

[@Tabyspuperze]

I see people here claiming the Shroud has to be fake or is not genuine, but fellow believers dont forget that we humans should not judge other people even if they are wrong. Only Jesus aka God can do that. So no matter who is right or wrong, face each other with LOVE, because that is one of most important Commandment Jesus gave us. Cheers

[@Warriorking.1963]

The Bible doesn't say we can't judge others. It says we can't condemn or judge people for doing things that are sinful and immoral, if we are doing the same thing ourselves. But we can judge - for example - murderers, pedos, etc. and still be obeying the Word.

[@mocabe01]

@@Warriorking.1963 Exactly. That "judge" verse and the "love" verse have always been invoked by people who do not want to be called out for their bad behavior as if it justifies absolutely everything they do regardless if immoral.

[@rac7773]

We CAN judge irrationality and bad behavior. That passage is misinterpreted. We cannot fully judge hearts, but God does not call us to shut off our brains.

[@Tabyspuperze]

yeah i kinda agree now, but it is still complicated i think. If someone is gay do you still run to him and tell him that it is a Sinn? That is probably also what you mean with not fully judging Hearts. @@rac7773

[@soleknight3212]

@@Warriorking.1963 We can judge, I agree. We should call out evil. But if you take it to the level that those who perpetrate such deeds are different to you or me or any of us, and are on their way to Hell unless they repent, then the judgement you are making is extremely toxic and not good for you. My two cents. Peace

[@christophercoughlin9493]

It is not an object to be worshipped, but an object to be looked at as evidence of the truth.

[@trevorjameson3213]

Exactly, evidence of truth. Just like the miracles Jesus performed were evidence of truth.

[@healthytruth1363]

EXACTLY ❗️❗️❗️❗️ SPOT ON.

[@garystanfield2274]

It is not the truth and the scriptures proves that it is for deceit.

[@christophercoughlin9493]

@@garystanfield2274 That makes no sense.

[@garystanfield2274]

@@christophercoughlin9493 Makes all the sense in the world because scriptures alone prove that the shroud is a deceitful lie.

[@Stargate2Heaven]

Great interview! I am convinced that Jesus' Shroud is a gift to humanity to show people their true potential as divine beings of light. I am born in Turin and saw the original Shroud in 2000. A little after that, an uncle of mine showed me a very particular photo which was taken by a woman (a friend of his) during a pilgrimage in Puglia (south of Italy) in celebration of the beatification of a local Saint, Padre Pio who was famous for having had stigmata. This woman was taking random pics of the sky with an analogical camera and this... face came out when the film was developed. I asked to get a copy of the photo just before moving to Belgium (for good) and I kept it in a book for 17 years, from 2001 till 2018. In 2020, a spirit with that face "appeared" to both me and a friend during an initiation to Shaktipat meditation: while I saw him wearing a white robe, my friend saw him wearing a purple robe and giving her a message about me. Only recently, I noticed clear similarities between that photo, the Shroud of Turin and the "Prince of Peace" (painted by Akiane Kramarik when she was only 8 years old, inspired by her "meetings" with Jesus' spirit). When I overlap the 3 images, the match is close to perfect as you can see in kzbin.infogSo8XbI5LuI. Food for thought...

[@kimfleury]

I hope you will study Christianity and especially why your pagan ancestors abandoned their religion to embrace Jesus Christ.

[@mislavmaric8327]

You saw his dead face 2? You know where it says in Galatians "Christ was obviously painted as crucified infront of you"?

[@rac7773]

Yes, all humanity witnesses the risen Christ!

[@kathydoyle1857]

Never doubted it. ✝️

[@beverlyhurd8556]

No really intelligent person is going to call the Holy Shroud a fake.

[@michaelmilburn9638]

1. We cannot duplicate this today with all of the technology that we have. 2. There has NEVER been another found. 3. It is real, and Jesus lives!!!!!

[@beverlyhurd8556]

*EXACTLY!!* 👍👍

[@wipo3654]

Are all historical artifacts that we cannot replicate/explain today automatically a miracle?

[@wipo3654]

And by the way. The following should be explainable!? NO TRACES of spices were detected in the fibres and bloodstains by the STURP (Shroud of Turin Research Project) Team. Even BeverlyHurd8556, a very active shroud defending commentator, confirmed me that. But there must be many traces of spices because Jesus was wrapped in linen WITH the 32 kg sticky mixture of spices according to the burial custom of Jews: John 19,40 So they took the body of Jesus and bound [EDESAN] it in linen cloths [OTHONIOIS, plural] with [META] the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews. Has somebody a logic and verifiable explanation for this contradiction?

[@johnmichaelson9173]

Well how come there are reproductions hanging in many Churches? "There has never been another found" That suggests that it's a medieval forgery.

[@christophercoughlin9493]

Amen, brother!

[@jennymason1785]

In John 20 verse 7 it says there were cloths and the one wrapped around Jesus head was folded. So to me whether the shroud is real or not doesn't matter Jesus arose from the grave and conquered death

[@stephenphillips4984]

If you believe your scriptures are true, then you cannot accept the Shroud of Turin as genuine because there was never a SINGLE sheet wrapped around the whole body. The gospel account implies clearly that SEVERAL sheets were used.

[@chuckyoneill9029]

​@@stephenphillips4984wrong ! The Sudariam of Oviedo is the face covering stop your lies

[@almars5]

Praise the Lord, you learned that now😃

[@nightowlslounge]

Hallelujah, Jesus is Love! ❤️

[@raymondschneider5217]

A shocking revelation with Dr. Lavoie's conversation, for me, was the position of the flow of hair; it hung DOWN (as risen) vs some being splayed out (as in reclining/lying flat on back). That was an eye-opener, to me! I would love to hear more about the circular blood markings he discussed earlier; or did I miss that? Thank you so much for bring Dr. Lavoie to us! Y'all Be Safe!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching!

[@stephenphillips4984]

Hair hanging down does not prove the body had risen when the image was created. A hoaxer who used a suitable corpse of someone with long hair to create the image might have combed the hair of the dead man to hang down before photographing it with a camera obscura. Alternatively (and more likely), before photographing the corpse, he might have hung the corpse in a vertical position to make added blood run down the body in a natural way and for the hair to fall naturally as well.

[@callumclarke1733]

The shroud of Turin is real you can create the shroud but it's impossible to create the image it cannot be created by Human hand's

[@stephenphillips4984]

Wrong. Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince reported in their book "Turin Shroud: Proof that Leonardo da Vinci fooled history" experiments (shown by convincing photos) that used a camera obscura and a linen cloth treated with a photo-sensitive chemical to reproduce images of a human head. The original image is that of a corpse with flagellation marks, wounds and blood added expertly by the hoaxer. The result was a photographic negative of this corpse, with the image residing only in the chemically-soaked surface layer of the cloth. That's why the image is not distorted, as it would have been if it had been created naturally by perspiration and skin oils on a cloth wrapped around the curved surface of a torso and face.

[@TQCX9]

With respect to Dr Lavoie ( at 36 mins ~) - the image of the Holy body ,with the unflattened back , could also be consistent with the holy body floating above the table , the suspension of gravity also suspending the hair . ( However i note that he says the white areas below the eyes are different in the negative photo he took of the model when lying down compared to the model sitting up- not sure why )

[@DenisSt-Jean]

Dr. Gilbert Lavoie, comme votre nom est francophone et assez commun au Québec, je me permets de vous féliciter en français pour votre travail absolument fantastique. Et j''en profite pour soliciter un entrvu téléphonique avec vous. Voici mon téléphone sans le code régional que vous cevinerez puisqu'il est le plus important dans notre belle province. Merci

[@jamesdempsey3278]

Thanks for posting this. I’m new to the shroud issue but am persuaded that the shroud is genuine. One thing I’ve noticed is that proponents of the shrouds authenticity seem to have a hard time expressing themselves and get lost in detail. (I’m sure part of it is that I’m slow on the uptake. ) I know the details are critical, but we need a storyteller who can make the case for the shrouds likely authenticity in under three minutes so we can reach a broad audience.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

I did post a shorter 10 minute clip from this video if you want to search for it!

[@martaacosta4415]

I totally believe the Shroud is the real thing. Always believed it, and I’m even more convinced now! Thank you.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching!

[@shortnessoftime8783]

If I may paraphrase: To those who believe, no proof is needed. To those who do not believe, there is not enough proof!

[@Adrian-mj8is]

Aside from the Shroud of Turin, Catholics also have the miraculous image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and the Sun Dance at Fatima.

[@suegreene1]

The Orthodox had it right from the beginning, you can see it watching the oldest Icons, as it was showed doubled down so the only part was the face, very different of the first Roman images of Jesus where he is depicted as a young fair boy

[@michele-kt]

For me the next logical question is why now. Why is it now, this time in history, that He gave us tangible, indisputable evidence of His Life and Resurrection. I do believe these are special times we are living in.

[@heidigabalski6335]

Another amazing episode as always! I actually heard Dr. LeVoie on the Drew Mariani show on Relevant Radio several weeks ago and bought the book 📖 it is a must read ❤ have Kleenex 💦 ✝️🙏

[@jhn146A]

The man of the shroud also is wearing a ponytail, it goes down between the shoulder blades. He also has side locks. This hairstyle was common among men in 1st century Judea. I believe it is Jesus.

[@stephenphillips4984]

No one else can see evidence of a pony tail. I suggest that this is pareidolia on your part.

[@chuckyoneill9029]

​@@stephenphillips4984imbecile

[@jhn146A]

One absolute thing that should be made clear in any Evangelical sense this has nothing to do with the Catholic faith at all

[@chuckyoneill9029]

Only that it was left to a pope from a catholic family which you conviently left out amazing

[@kimfleury]

My parents both came from Catholic families and raised me in the Faith, but I hadn't heard of the Shroud of Turin until the STIRP team was highlighted in the news in the 1970s. Even then, it didn't raise any reaction from my parents or anyone else in my family. I guess they just didn't need the relic to bolster their faith, but that's just a guess. I do know that my Dad especially would say things about how science is a tool that can be used to study the physical world, but isn't necessary for faith in the supernatural, even if the supernatural leaves physical evidence in the world. As Scripture says, "You believe because you have seen. Blessed are they that believe without seeing." One is better than the other, but it's acceptable to believe only when presented with irrefutable evidence. I've tried to keep that in mind through the years whenever the topic of the Shroud comes up. The first book I read about it was written by the STIRP team member who is still involved in the research and education, and it wasn't Barry -- I've forgotten his name, but he's the man who was with the US Air Force. He wasn't a man of faith until he encountered the Shroud. It was a very interesting book, written soon after the research was started, but if I recall correctly, before the radiocarbon dating. It's the reason that when the results of the dating were announced, I was suspicious of the radiocarbon dating and _not_ of the STIRP findings. After all, radiocarbon dating begins with a set of assumptions that themselves have to be tested before any real scientist would accept as conclusive beyond a doubt, whereas the other tests were based on what is immediately evident. For instance, the fact that the image doesn't penetrate into the fabric. That doesn't require any prior assumptions to be an evident fact. And there have been a number of knowledgeable people who had no interest in proving the existence of Jesus, and even lacked faith in the supernatural, who also rejected the radiocarbon date based on their fields of expertise. In particular, there's at least one, perhaps two or more, textile experts who spotted the error immediately just from watching the documented process used to collect the fabric samples that were to be tested. All of these things can be considered dispassionately, without bias, and while there can certainly be disagreement about how to interpret the evidence, there can be no sane disagreement over what the evidence shows. So once again my simple Dad was very wise.

[@barbielockett5839]

The Shroud is now 2000 years old. In the Name of the Father Son Holy Spirit.. Amen..❤🙏❤

[@serafin1352]

She is beautiful and talented. I really hope they give her another chance with better writting

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

The Shroud is 2000 years old and its images are miraculous. This has been proven by science and art history. The fact that people who call themselves "Christians" hate it so much is strange. What is wrong with them?

[@chuckyoneill9029]

Pride

[@chuckyoneill9029]

Liked and shared this was very good.

[@evanflowforever6615]

CHRIST is a God of signs and wonders. HE is still doing it! And the world still turns its head. Help US Jesus; CHRIST IS KING FOREVER

[@cosmicdogs1850]

It seams there is a Jewish law that states, when dead by violent death, no washing of the body. This is is congruent with the fact that all blood is to be buried with the dead person. Jesus was anointed with myrrh and aloes both i recall have been found on the holy Shroud...these two were how kings were meant to be anointed... Joseph of Arimathea knew Jesus is King

[@catherinecorn7627]

Those who believe no proof is necessary.....those who do not ...No Proof Is Possible.

[@PotatoPirate123]

Well that's not strictly true, is it

[@stephenphillips4984]

Totally false. The only reason why some do not believe Christianity is that no scientific proof of the Resurrection has been given. It is certainly NOT to be found in the Shroud of Turin. Even the Gospel of St John clearly states that SEVERAL strips of cloth and a SEPARATE face cloth were found in the empty tomb, so that a SINGLE burial sheet was never used. The Turin Shroud HAS to be a fake. Christians cannot cherry-pick what they believe.

[@brightbite]

Important findings! Skeptics gonna skeptic! 🔥IC XC NIKA!!🔥

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Love it! Thanks for watching!

[@Don_Med]

You are right to call it a 'receipt' of the transaction of salvation between God and humanity, with God putting His 'image' as a signature.

[@jamiemcvay130]

The gospels do NOT say that Jesus’ body was washed and anointed before it was wrapped in the linen. Mary Magdalene and the women were coming back after the Sabbath on the first day of the week to wash and anointed the body, but Jesus was already risen. One question, though, is was there evidence of spices. Apparently, Nicodemus brought 75 lbs. of spices.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Yeah, but they never got around to using any of those spices before Joeseph of Arrigone and Nicodemus had to stop for Sabbath.

[@stlouisix3]

The Shroud of Turin is 100% Real and Miraculous!

[@maxamahnken7325]

Wrong

[@phylliswestbury5081]

NOT JUST KING Mary was bloodline of line of priests and Kings. Levi tribe (priests) as well as tribe of Judae (Kings) Mary from the line of King David So he is King of kings and Lord of lords (as they addressed priests) King David was of Judae tribe. God is so amazing and can do everything. He does nothing that doesn’t bear fruit (have meaning)

[@callumclarke1733]

Jack Sacco Science BEHIND the Resurrection on KZbin great videos

[@bartcastillo5516]

I live in asia believed that the shoud of jesus is real we love jesus amen

[@francis5425]

Checkout paramahansa yogananda telling the story of his meeting with Therese Newman

[@richardbaumeister466]

To me God created this relic specifically for people today. For all of the evidence to be so obvious, this was made for today Wow and every time I revisit the Shroud, something new floors me as this revelation does. Mankind did not have the capability to study this holy Relic in this depth until now!

[@maxamahnken7325]

Pagan relic

[@richardbaumeister466]

Study it then!@@maxamahnken7325

[@SerendipityPoint]

The shroud of Turin: nothing more than a 13th century ceremonial cloth that virtually every orthodox church had and used. The paint on the cloth is a dead giveaway. The fact that the paint only captured the top portion of the Sculptured body is another giveaway. The most laughable part of this is the horrible size of body compared to the head. And I’ll throw in a bonus: a person‘s eyes are not in the top 1/3 of the head either. Please people, stop following these deceptions.

[@nvanpitt1549]

Trust but verify CHECK !!!

[@Braun09tv]

They say it was a burst of energy out of respect. However, it was rather heat radiation over many hours, with the body as hot radiator heated due to the necessary fire for melting the wax, and the very fast cooling of the cave during night afterwards. The fact that one can see the teeth shows, that it was heat radiation from the hot inner core of the body and the colder teeth have blocked the heat radiation. So you can actually see them on that very real Shroud.

[@glaube3591]

You can see the teeth on the shroud? How did I miss that?

[@Braun09tv]

@@glaube3591 maybe you didn't look at the hi-res files or you don't use photo editing software to enhance those things?

[@glaube3591]

@@Braun09tv That might be true. I found it to be quite difficult to find very good and high quality photos of the shroud, because there is so much floating around. Could you kindly point me to a source where there are such photographs where the teeth are visible?

[@1974jrod]

​@@Braun09tvproof the shroud is fraudulent kzbin.info/www/bejne/aavCkIyjh9Ora68si=5S-tlKNkDmmeXG44

[@StephenConti-t6j]

Jesus Christ of Nazareth said Follow me Jesus Christ of Nazareth Not the world

[@freyatilly]

It really isn't really of an actual person. Way too many anomalies that discount it including one that has never been discussed. If it had been raised before (excuse the pun) it would be massively spread as conclusive. But hey..!

[@lindatamir2852]

Actually today i looked at pictures of the backside and thought that the buttocks were quite round and to hear you saying he was upright it fell immediately into place, amazing, I didn’t hear about it before, thank you .

[@TheCordialCatholic]

You’re welcome!

[@inttubu1]

Yeshua was not bound by gravity on this earth. That is why he could walk on water. At the moment of resurrection He waslifted to the vertical: he did not need to stand on the His feet.

[@uncatila]

shorten the intro to 10% WHATEVER YOU THINK YOU KNEW ABOUT THE SHROUD, LISTEN AND LEARN THIS. BOOM

[@theHentySkeptic]

A re-analysis of the C14 results using the known proportions of original and repair cloth, with the known age of repair, shows the original cloth age IS in the first few decades of the first century. The C14 tests actually prove the shroud to be the correct age, if correctly analysed. The other key evidences are: the drawings of the shroud in early dates show common damage (L-pattern burn holes) Early depictions of Jesus changed when the shroud was publically displayed in Constantinople, down to a strange mark across his neck, that is the same as the shroud. The shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus. Nothing else makes sense of the facts.

[@stephenphillips4984]

The new C14 results can be explained as consistent with a genuine, already old burial cloth being brought back from the Holy Land by a pilgrim and later used by the hoaxer of the Turin Shroud. The gospel of St John contradicts the claim that the shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus. It clearly states that SEVERAL strips of cloth that wrapped the torso and a separate face cloth were found in the empty tomb. In other words, no SINGLE sheet covering the whole body was used, according to this gospel.

[@zedfernandes7622]

Two points of my particular interest. 1. Any confirmatory test to prove that the blood is definitely human? It also tests positive for mammalian/ bovine blood. 2. Is the red colour of blood definitely due to billirubin? Not proven.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Yes, the blood is from a primate (human) and is AB+. Hematologists say that the bilirubin causes the blood to stay red. I am not one so I have to take their word for it.

[@EvelynElaineSmith]

From numerous videos I've seen, the blood is type AB-. This is the rarest blood type, but it is fairly common among Jews.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@EvelynElaineSmith From the test reports that I have seen it is AB+ which is the very same blood type as the Sudarium of Oviedo which was his face cloth when taken down off the cross and brought into the tomb.

[@donaldrice5281]

Why don't you read your Bible which you obviously ignore because if you use the Bible to describe the burial garments you could not ignore the napkin that was used to cover the head which would not have allowed an imprint on the shroud. This is typical Catholic lunacy.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

I think that I know who the lunatic is here. The head cloth was put on Jesus after he died on the cross and left there until he was brought into the tomb. Then it was taken off of him, folded, and set aside. He was _not_ wearing it when he was resurrected.

[@HadassahDewhitt]

The shroud is preserved as evidence against the evil kingdom. Book of Acts says if they had known the consequence, they wouldn't have killed him. When the Father, the King, comes, He will not spare the secret societies or their minions, as prophecied in Yshua's parable of the vineyard. The wicked system will be destroyed as prophecied also by prophets Daniel and Enoch. We will finally be free, and His government, outlined in the Torah-His Constitution, will be practiced. There will be no more wars.

[@suegreene1]

And the coincidence between the Shroud and the Sudarium Domini that covered Jesus Christ head, which can historically being followed that is in Oviedo Cathedral en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarium_of_Oviedo

[@glaube3591]

What about the Volto Santo of Manoppello?

[@Thomas116-m2n]

I don't need a shroud for evidence. It's a piece of cloth. One's faith should be enough.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Nothing wrong with anything that bolsters someone's faith is there? Nope.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

TY. Choosing to believe w/o having to see is the best option. However, as a believer, one has the obligation to persuade others to also believe. In this atheistic age many try to say that Jesus never existed, or that, if he did exist, he was only one of many street-corner preachers in Israel and that his purported miracles were nothing more than magicians' tricks. The miraculous images of Jesus' body on the Holy Shroud contradict these false ideas and have persuaded many to accept faith. You do not need the Shroud because you have faith, but you can use it to help others to faith.

[@yankeecitygirl]

A piece of cloth converted a million meso-Americans after the Spanish missionaries had all but given up. the Tilma of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

[@truincanada]

Skeptics: " Please,.. .don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up. Nuts shell .

[@commentsbydjb3821]

What I find interesting is all of these supposedly smart people need it all of the scientific proof before they can admit this. Where is their faith why do they lack Faith why do they think so they're so darn smart very discouraging to see all of these smart people that are just really so..... and they do it under the guise that they need proof where is their faith

[@timfallon8226]

Is their anything you don't believe? Are you a belief machine? Yeti, bigfoot, goblins, spaceships you believe the lot.

[@Paul-hl8yg]

Because some people need facts, evidence, proof & logic before they believe something. Belief & faith does NOT equal truth. Indoctrination of old texts & living your life utterly deluded by them happens, when the proof is not there to back them up! There is ZERO proof for deities or messiah's... ZERO!!

[@Davcramer]

@@Paul-hl8yg Yet you are here watching this video. So perhaps you hope to believe.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@Paul-hl8yg Who’s more irrational……a Christian who believes in a God he can’t see, or an atheist who’s offended by a God he doesn’t even believe in?

[@edukaeshn]

​@@Paul-hl8yg​​Reason and evidence is the basis of my faith in the Creator and Messiah.

[@nvanpitt1549]

Proof of the truth, shall make your asses free as a muhfuh !!!

[@jaggedstarrPI]

I believe the Shroud is legit; and the doctor is great. The kid is likeable but, lol, he needs to do a little more reading. Specifically, for example: look up middle ages vs Renaissance; and definitely re-read why the carbon dating has been determined to be invalid. There wasn't a second carbon dating performed. They found that the sample was taken from a corner that had been repaired and that the cloth was chemically different from the rest of the Shroud. There were also other indications that the folks who did the dating had an agenda and diverged from the agreed upon protocols in a way that seems biased (IMO).

[@yolandahernandez9154]

The Bible said : Christ Body was wrapped in cloth of bandages. “ not in one sheet of cloth. So I hardly believe it is Christ. I will show you young people in scripture. John 20 : 5. 7. There were antiquity spooky 👻 movies , on mummy’s walking with bandages. It was a custom, John 19 : 40. So they took the body of Jesus, and bound it up with “ bandages “ With The spices, Just the way the Jews have the custom of preparing For burial. . Young people read your Bible. Then when you hear someone say a comment, On religion, You will know if it’s False or true. Isaiah. 40 : 8. The green grass has dried up , the blossom has withered , But as the word of of our God, It will last to time indefinite. I’am sure men have changed some words. But when one reads on a daily basis, You can understand that a word was not supposed To be there. Take care young people. Could there be a possibility the blood was dried up By the time they took Down his body,! One would have to use a washcloth, of some sort. .

[@uptoolate2793]

Uh huh. And there's nothing ever lost in translation between English and Spanish is there, Ms Hernandez.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

That statement shows an obvious bias against the Holy Shroud. There is a mountain of authenticity evidence, but you nit-pic and mis-interpret one Bible verse. Bias!

[@stephenphillips4984]

@@jeffreyerwin3665 And you willfully ignore the evidence of scriptures such as the Gospel of St John, which refers to SEVERAL strips of cloth and a SEPARATE face cloth, i.e., no SINGLE burial sheet was used! Stop cherry-picking the evidence to suit your beliefs. The shroud of Turin is a forgry. All claimed evidence is circumstantial, not conclusive, and can be alternatively explained as the product of a clever hoax involving a camera obscura and a linen cloth impregnated in a photo-sensitive, chemical solution.

[@PaulRidgway-ot7jf]

The Lord God resurrected his Son after his sacrifice for our sins. No one shall come unto the Lord except by the son. Our savior Jesus. Either you believe or you doubt. (Thomas)

[@vzmichael]

I always consider the power of God in allowing His most beloved Son to be brutally sacrificed in order to save the souls of those that deny him and sin to his face. !

[@paullittle6458]

💯‼️

[@davidoverton4030]

Why so???

[@johnmichaelson9173]

6:50 Have you found any examples of other Herringbone weave cloth from the time of Jesus? Surely that's the important question. Sadly the Cordial Catholic doesn't ask any genuine questions, which makes the interview one big nothing.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

How many examples of _any_ cloth of any kind is still around after 2000 years? Do not forget that the Shroud was hidden away for a thousand years or so. It's in pretty good shape despite how old it is.

[@johnmichaelson9173]

@@beverlyhurd8556 More than you imagine. A pile of linen was discovered in Egypt from a Dynasty 1 tomb dated 2800 bc. When the pile was cleaned in the Victoria & Albert museum textile conservation workshop in London they discovered a linen dress. It's called the Tarkhan dress & at 4800 years old it's one of the oldest Egyptian woven garments in the World.

[@johnmichaelson9173]

@@beverlyhurd8556 I gave you an example & you've gone all quiet?

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@johnmichaelson9173 Was there a reason that I needed to comment?

[@johnmichaelson9173]

@@beverlyhurd8556 I don't know, you left a reply that asked me "How many examples of any cloth of any kind is still around after 2000 years?" You suggesting that it's supposed age was an important part of the shrouds authenticity. It's just people have so much energy talking about it being the real thing but when (in as nice a way as possible) they're corrected that person doing the correction gets ghosted, even holy ghosted. 🙂

[@MonikaEscobar1965]

Iesus was WELSH! And he probably didn´t die on the cross. Why would he? He was the friend of Caesar Augustus who sent him on a peace mission to Palestine, according to Edmund Marriage. The man on that Shroud is probably Jaques de Molay or it´s just a fraud. Iesus was King Cunobelinos from Britain.

[@jasongallman2032]

Holy thit

[@therealfronzilla]

Anyone that has a theroy as to why its not, bring your reaserch notes forward, contact Barrie Schwortz and he would be willing to compare and contrast. Maybe you did as .much research as he has, that no one k knows about. I know I'm open to others research that could prove what he says is wrong. I know how hard it is to let go of belief sytems that define a person. The sky daddy and pizza monster mocking was cute. Here is a little tid bit of info, normally, crucified, victims, were thrown in a ditch for the dogs to rip apart. Jesus, had Joseph of Arimathea that prevented this from happening. Also, the crown of thorns must of been a normal procedure for crucified victims. Oh wait, most weren thrown ito a ditch. How many crucified victims had their own tomb, given to them by a man of means similar to Joseph of Arimathea? Here is a body shot The analysis positively identifies a high density of pollen of the thistle Gundelia tournefortii which has bloomed in Israel between March and May for millennia. An image of the plant can be seen near the image of the man's shoulder. It has been hypothesized by the Whangers, who have researched the Shroud for decades, that this is is the plant used for the "crown of thorns" on Jesus' head. Two pollen grains of this species were also found on the Sudarium of Oviedo, widely accepted as the burial face cloth of Jesus. The location of the Sudarium has been documented from the 1st Century and it has resided in the Cathedral of Oviedo in Spain since the 8th Century. Both cloths also carry type AB blood stains, although some argue that ancient blood types are hard to interpret. What is clear is that the blood stains on both cloths are in a similar pattern. "There is no way that similar patterns of blood stains, probably of the identical blood type, with the same type of pollen grains, could not be synchronic - covering the same body," Danin stated. "The pollen association and the similarities in the blood stains in the two cloths provide clear evidence that the Shroud originated before the 8th Century." Danin stated that this botanical research disputes the validity of the claim that the Shroud was from Europe during the Middle Ages, as many researchers had concluded in 1988 based on carbon-14 dating tests. The authors do not question the accuracy of the carbon-14 dating test which was done on only a single sample taken from one highly contaminated corner of the shroud, he said. However, their research looked at pollen grains and images from the entire piece of fabric and compared them with a fabric that has a documented history. Another plant seen in a clear image on the Shroud is of the Zygophyllum dumosum species, according to the paper. This is a native plant with an unusual leaf morphology, displaying paired leaflets on the ends of leaf petiole of the current year during the beginning of winter. Gundelia tournefortii and Zygophyllum dumosum coexist in a limited area, according to Danin, a leading authority on plants of Israel. The area is bounded by lines linking Jerusalem and Hebron in Israel and Madaba and Karak in Jordan. The area is anchored toward the Jerusalem-Hebron zone with the addition of a third species, Cistus creticus, identified as being placed on the Shroud through an analysis of pollen and floral imaging. "This combination of flowers can be found in only one region of the world," Danin stated. "The evidence clearly points to a floral grouping from the area surrounding Jerusalem." Danin stated that the evidence revealing these species on the Shroud suggests that they were placed with the body prior to the process that caused the formation of images on the cloth. According to Danin, his findings corroborate the following sequence of events: * Laying the body on the linen; * Placing flowering plants and other objects along with the body; * Folding the cloth over the body; * Initiation of the process that caused the formation of the images. Images of Capparis aegyptia flowers, which display a distinctive pattern during daylight hours, have also been seen on the Shroud. The process of buds opening ceases when the flowers are picked and no water is supplied. The images of these flowers on the Shroud suggest they were picked in the Judean Desert or the Dead Sea Valley between 3 and 4 p.m. on the day they were placed on the Shroud. The images of the flowers on the Shroud are also depicted in art of the early centuries, according to the upcoming publication. Early icons on some 7th century coins portray a number of flower images that accurately match floral images seen on the Shroud today, according to PIOT analysis by the Whangers. The researchers suggest that the faint images on the Shroud were probably clearer in earlier centuries. Botanical investigation of the Shroud began with Max Frei's 1973 observations of pollen grains on the Shroud, which he sampled by means of sticky tape. Frei took a second set of 27 sticky tape samples from the Shroud during the scientific study in 1978. In 1979 he took 46 sticky tape samples from the Sudarium of Oviedo. In 1983 faint floral images on the Shroud linen were noted by O. Scheuermann, and subsequently in 1985 by the Whangers. Botanist Avinoam Danin began collaborating with Shroud researchers Alan and Mary Whanger in 1995. They were joined by Israeli pollen expert Uri Baruch in 1998. Frei's Shroud botanical collections were acquired in 1994 by the Council for Study of the Shroud of Turin (CSST) and became the resource for this study which analyzed 313 pollen grains. The burial cloth known today as the Shroud of Turin is a linen rectangle measuring 4.35 meters by 1.1 meter. It has been kept in the city of Turin (Torino), Italy, since 1578. In 1694, the Shroud was placed in a special chapel within the Italian cathedral of St. John the Baptist. Except for a brief period during World War II when the cloth was moved elsewhere for safety, the Shroud remained in this cathedral until the night of April 11, 1997, when a raging fire necessitated its removal. The Shroud was not damaged, and was kept elsewhere in the city until it again was placed in the cathedral for public display from April 18 through June 14, 1998. While there have long been historical, literary, and artistic claims that the Shroud represents the authentic burial cloth of Jesus, there has been little scientific evidence to support this. In 1988, carbon-14 dating of a single sample from a corner of the Shroud was identified to be from 1260 to 1390 A.D., leading to the widespread conclusion that the entire Shroud was from the Medieval www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/08/990803073154.htm

[@rickdavies4801]

Maybe but it doesn't line up with the torah and is not from hashem so it must be Aman made story

[@davidking3089]

THE PIECE OF CLOTHE IS NOT OF JESUS! IT'S FROM NO TELLING WHAT Y'ALL ARE LIER'S READ THE BIBLE THE EMTY TOMB! THE OTHER IS A LIE! Y'ALL NEED TO GIVE IT A REST! PLEASE!😕

[@yankeecitygirl]

IM SO SORRY I AM LIER I PROMISS I WILL REDE MOAR BIBBL!😘

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

EYE AM A LIER TWO AND NEED SPELCHEK. . . .LOL!@@yankeecitygirl

[@KeysRevealed]

😇

[@LookOutForNumberOne]

Thank you very much, this is when you talk a lot and say nothing, at minute 45 you DEBUNKED the common notion of what it means to put a shroud to a dead Jewish person. I was hearing too much nonsense from the oldman but I think it is a good nonsense when he contradics the general concensus.

[@LookOutForNumberOne]

Sorry minute 35

[@patriciasmith7074]

Why don’t you hold up the cover of the book so we can write down the information because I have a collection of books on The Shroud. I am a Catholic and I have always believed that it was Our Lord because just looking at the negative image told my mind that it was Him. I never believed those pompous scientists who tried to say it was dated till 14 or 15th century.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

The name of the book and a link to buy it is in the comments. 🤓

[@MattTyrant-sb8cb]

Made up make beleive money and it's made up make believe worth is a lie. Those who cleave to money will never cleave to God snd will keep shoving their made up make believe dead idol down your throats and say Jesus is made up and make believe. Jesus is on the shroud and it is glory to him. Who is on the money?

[@stevenscott-yt4zb]

Dependent lividity dear Dr. Dependent lividity, dead body on his back a day and a half in the spring of Palestine, no way it suddenly “plumped up” upon sitting up, your a Dr. and should know better, and what’s with the image being flashed onto the cloth after he was sitting up, he had to come alive before sitting up didn’t he? And the hair “cascading” down the shoulders? Have you ever witnessed how a body is wrapped in linen for burial in the Middle East? I have, they are wrapped as tight as mummies! The Carbon 14 tests would have been acceptable had the Oxford dates been found to be just 10 years closer to the other 2 and we know that they used a more thorough cleaning method than the other two, not to mention the advances that have been made in the testing techniques since! Want to settle this for good? Re-run the test, the truth fears no scrutiny, y’all won’t because it got a little too close to busting the whole thing open last time didn’t it?

[@sulk7080]

Was it really just me who looked at the Shroud of Turin and saw a medieval painting? This was back when I was a Catholic, and despite me looking and thinking it was fake, I was actually indoctrinated to believe it was authentically the blood of Jesus! But y’all LOOK at it

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Sure as heck aint no painting. Paint would be necessary to do that.

[@sulk7080]

@@beverlyhurd8556 It could be a painting, with a special type of paint or pigment using a specific technique you don’t know about. It could be made in any other way you don’t know about. The fact that you’re disregarding that possibility shows you’re dogmatically attached to it being the magically created image of the face of Jesus. Just because you don’t know how something was made doesn’t mean that it is magic. That’s God of the Gaps 101. That might have flown in elementary school, but that does not fly now.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@sulk7080 Nope. No paint or dies or anything at all liquid is responsible for the image on the Shroud. That they know. The image is only on a fraction of the very top fibrils of the threads in the fabric. Any paint or die or anything like it would have bled into the cloth due to capillary action. Are you able to understand that? The image was put on the Shroud by a incredibly bright but incredibly short duration of light. And who said anything about magic? It certainly wasn't me. And what the hell is "God of the Gaps 101"? Are you an adult? Just wondering.

[@sulk7080]

@@beverlyhurd8556 Have you done any research outside of what religiously-motivated figureheads spoon-feed you? Have you read anything from or heard anything about Walter McCrone, or the red ochre and vermillion pigments he found that convinced him that it was a painting? Do you understand that, regardless of the method of production, the dates produced from the shroud via radiocarbon dating in multiple specialized laboratories corroborate with the date range that artists themselves surmised as the time of production based solely off of artistic choices? If you believe truly that this was made by some intensely bright light, I'm going to assume you believe the source to be Jesus' corpse at the moment of resurrection. Beverly, bless your heart, but that's magical thinking! You're starting with your conclusion that it's authentic and working backwards! All you can do is sow seeds of doubt on any theory that doesn't fit your magic story- what else can you do to protect your idolatry? When you do that, when you exploit a lack of consensus or knowledge about a topic like the production of the shroud of Turin and you impose a God as your explanation, you're invoking the God of the Gaps. I did it too when I was a teenager, so it's nothing to be embarrassed about.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@sulk7080You seem to enjoy proving your ignorance about the Holy Shroud. Perhaps you should quit listening to what other kids in your middle school are telling you. Those of us with actual intelligence as well as common sense are _much_ more likely to believe the findings of _dozens_ of scientists rather than those of one atheist crackpot. The STURP team said: *No pigments, paints, dyes or stains have been found on the fibrils. X-ray, fluorescence and microchemistry on the fibrils preclude the possibility of paint being used as a method for creating the image. Ultraviolet and infrared evaluation confirm these studies. Computer image enhancement and analysis by a device known as a VP-8 image analyzer show that the image has unique, three-dimensional information encoded in it. Microchemical evaluation has indicated no evidence of any spices, oils, or any biochemicals known to be produced by the body in life or in death. It is clear that there has been a direct contact of the Shroud with a body, which explains certain features such as scourge marks, as well as the blood. However, while this type of contact might explain some of the features of the torso, it is totally incapable of explaining the image of the face with the high resolution that has been amply demonstrated by photography. We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist. The blood stains are composed of hemoglobin and also give a positive test for serum albumin. The image is an ongoing mystery and until further chemical studies are made, perhaps by this group of scientists, or perhaps by some scientists in the future, the problem remains unsolved.* There you go! I hope that helps you out and that now you feel a whole lot smarter! Tell your friends too, OK? 😊

[@crushendobear]

I'm having a hard time following what your saying while trying to dodge your hands from my face and your fingers in my eyes.

[@joshuamartin1999]

Why do people decide to be Catholic when we aren't supposed to pray to anyone but God, and Catholics pray to Mary and dead saints? We are supposed to confess our sins to God, not a man in a box.. we aren't supposed to call another man father, yet Catholics do. Catholics also have many graven images/idols... and I could go on. It seems like many Catholics are immersed in religion and tradition instead of obeying what God says. I just don't understand it.. why claim to be Christian if you don't even follow what Jesus says? Please help me understand.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

Catholic traditions stem from the Keys to the Church that Jesus gave to St. Peter saying that whatever you bind up shall be considered bound up in Heaven. Many have found fault, as you have with those Church traditions, and that has led to the founding of other branches of Christianity that do not accept Catholic traditions. My advice to you is to find the tradition that suits you and to refain from labeling those that you disgree with as heresies. yeshu pantera

[@sarahedges]

All of the laws you quoted come from the Bible. You believe the teachings of the church contradict God’s law in the Bible. However, remember the Church existed for over 300 years before the books of the Bible were compiled. For 300 years the faith was handed on by Tradition. Yes, Tradition with a capital T. “Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.” [2 Thessalonians 2:14] Douay-Rheims Bible. If you believe the Biblen is the inspired word of God, you believe God gave the church the authority to say so (which he did with Peter) then you must believe that God gave the church the authority to interpret the scriptures, as we see in the quote above, not all things were written down and some were passed down by Tradition. There are many commentaries and answers on each of the concerns you raised and why Catholic Tradition passed on from Christ does not violate any of God’s laws.

[@Sheltieshangrila]

Catholics don't pray to Mary. They pray for her intercession. Ever asked someone to pray for you? Of course you have. It doesn't mean you're praying to them.

[@theresahall1490]

We are all Gods family. 2 people ever born on the earth were pure ..without original sin of Adam and Eve. Jesus of course as He is God and #2 His mom. She announced she was Immaculate Conception in Lourdes France miracle(studied for years and authenticated but we are not required to believe). Makes sense as she was made to Bore Jesus - God wanted totally pure womb for Jesus who is God, not any woman but pure Mary. Hence in the Hail Mary Prayer - blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus. So when he was dieing on the cross said to John at the foot - Behold thy mother Mary. Catholics take that as Jesus gave us His Mother as Our Own heavenly mother literally. We have images of Mary our Mother and Jesus to Honor. Just as perhaps you have an image of your son or daughter whom you love. She is our heavenly mother who loves us more than we know. Mother Mary we pray to to ASK Jesus for us as she is perfect. Again we are simply asking her to ask Jesus! Jesus would not be offended if we loved His mom and simply asked her to ask Jesus to answer our plea. this goes for saints too - in order to be a saint #1 there must have been at least 2 miracles before any committee is started. So same saints are so holy and have favor with God - so again we ask them to ask Jesus for us. As for sins ...Resurrection Sunday - Jesus appeared Risen to His apostles in the Upper Room where He said : John 20 vs 23 . "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." Jesus spoke these words on Resurrection Sunday - So.... Jesus never said that to the thousands of people up on the mount - No... he chose his priests -leader Pope Peter to forgive sins. So..that is why we go to a priest because Jesus gave them authority. :) May the Holy Spirit be on your heart and bless you.

[@StephenConti-t6j]

Do you know who runs the world

[@thomascamara8398]

It may be real and I don't doubt that it is, It is authentic, but it's not the death burial clothes of the Lord Jesus Christ, it just isn't. That's a fact,,

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Care to try that again in a way that makes some sense??

[@thomascamara8398]

@beverlyhurd8556 It's someone's burial cloth who lived during that time but it's not the burial clothes of the LORD JESUS CHRIST ,, is that plain enough for you,,,

[@beverlyhurd8556]

​@@thomascamara8398 Huh? Who told you that idiot lie? And you _believed_ them? Ignorance is one thing but that’s just as stupid a claim as can be made right there! Over the last several decades around 100 or so scientists and other researchers and their *tens of thousands of hours* of examinations have PROVEN that the Shroud of Turin once wrapped the body of a beaten, scourged, and crucified man that died wearing a crown of thorns. Who else could this have been other than Jesus?? Is that a plain enough answer for you?

[@stephenphillips4984]

@@thomascamara8398 Yes, but you leave your dogmatic statement unjustified. Anyone can do that. But in a forum such as this, we need to back up our beliefs.

[@thomascamara8398]

@stephenphillips4984 This burial cloth is one piece, Jesus 's burial.garments were plural, John 19; 39-40

[@RickyJr46]

Be afraid, Yuval Noah Harari, and *REPENT.*

[@briansmith8950]

Leave your brain at the door.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Is that the Atheist's Motto? Sounds like a good one.

[@wightcatladydavies65]

coming on a cloud for the whole world to see ???

[@timfallon8226]

Yet none of the apostles mention it in the Bible. Their best piece of physical evidence and not one of them thought to teference it in the Bible.

[@glaube3591]

But didn't he mention that in the Jewish world at that time it was considered idolatry to consider images as godly. So John had to tell about it in disguise.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Yes, he did. Pretty sure this commenter didn’t actually watch the interview.

[@edukaeshn]

I could not imagine having the arrogance to assume that all facts in Christian Tradition would be written in Scripture. To promote the idea that something is *not* true solely for *not* being unequivocally written in scripture is completely fallacious epistemology.

[@eldin14]

They did mention it but indirectly, to protect it from being sought to destroy it. Tons of art show it being displayed. Stop denying it, or rot in hell for your own sins. Who cares if YOU DENY it's real?? Sick of dead men walking spouting their filth on such a Holy Gift as the Shroud.

[@yeshuaisjoshua]

The shroud is still fake.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Said no intelligent person ever in all of history.

[@yeshuaisjoshua]

@beverlyhurd8556 Jesus didn't exist. The shroud is the dream of Christians.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@yeshuaisjoshua What a most idiotic thing to claim. Who told you incredibly stupid lie? And you yourself are dumb enough to believe it? Wow but does it ever suck to be you.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

Jesus did not exist? the Shroud doesn't exist, either. But anyone can see it.

[@jmp6943]

It is simply NOT-credible to rationally accept that a man whose body bears the equivalent of 120 lashes with a 3-pronged whip or flagrum, ONLY shows what appear to be almost perfectly "flagrum-sized" sized INDIVIDUALLY distinguishable small cuts in the skin. They have counted 360 such marks (by some videos I have seen) on the shroud (120X3). With PADDED leather gloves, in boxing, multiple punches to the face or same area of the face often breaks the skin open. Now, imagine what would happen IF instead of padded leather gloves, the gloves had pieces of bone, metal or glass woven into them? What do you suppose a face would look like then? Have you ever seen actual footage of a person being caned on their buttocks? After 2-3 hits, the skin does not merely look cut, it splits open. The more hits, the wider it splits open., until large parts of the skin are simply torn away. Now, IF the image of the man on the shroud IS the Lord Jesus Christ, just prior to His resurrection, and IF He was indeed subject to the unimaginable horror of 120 lashes, THEN the skin on the image of the man on the Shroud is too "clean", to be Him. LOOK up the artistic "hyper realistic" 3D image of the man on the Shroud. Yes, it does show hundreds of individual small cuts/tears all over the arms, chest, legs. But the adjacent skin in-between these marks is still IN TACT. HOW is that possible? It is simply NOT possible! 120 lashes, savagely applied with the intent of "scourging" the victim, would NOT LEAVE SUCH MARKS! Rather, the skin on the chest, arms, legs and back would be almost entirely ripped away by such a beating. Historical records of people being "scourged" by the Romans state that the skin is almost entirely gone. That the lashes cut so deep into the muscles that the spine itself became visible in places. Or, the internal organs, bowels became exposed and or partially fell out. As horrible as the hyper-realistic 3D figure based on the Shroud is, the REALITY Jesus experienced would be and WAS far worse! Isaiah prophesied of Christ that His appearance was disfigured MORE than any man! Jesus was literally beaten WAY BEYOND recognition! The gospels state He was ALSO beaten with rods and repeatedly struck with hands too. HIs appearance would have been the most gruesome sight imaginable. He would have had TWO black eyes, a face almost entirely black, blue and purpose, swollen all over. I am a devout Christian believer, whose faith in the Person and Saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ for His people does not depend on the Shroud. Barry Swortz has not been "converted" by his decades of research on the Shroud. That OUGHT to say something. The Vatican has NOT claimed the Shroud is authentic. That DOES say something significant! Wake up people.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

The Shroud image is so incredible that the burden of proof rests on those who think it is a forgery. STURP team spent over two years preparing a series of tests that would gather a vast amount of Shroud data in a relatively short period of time. STURP's primary goal was to determine the scientific properties of the image on the Shroud of Turin, and what might have caused it: After years of exhaustive study and evaluation of the data, STURP issued its Final Report in 1981: "We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist." "The answer to the question of how the image was produced or what produced the image remains, now, as it has in the past, a mystery." No one has ever proven these 33 scientists and engineers wrong. All were part of leading tech firms. Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories* Lockheed Corporation* U.S. Air Force Weapons Laboratories* Brooks Institute of Photography* University of Colorado* Oceanographic Services Inc.* Nuclear Technology Corporation* U.S. Air Force Academy* Jet Propulsion Laboratory* Sandia National Laboratory*, etc. The STRUP team included three Jewish members, one Mormon, one Evangelical, several Catholics, several Protestants and some avowed atheists and agnostics. Had religion ever been a criterion for membership, most of the STURP team members would never have agreed to participate. The notion that it is a forgery (a painting, other work of art) has been disproved so thoroughly and absolutely that it is permanently buried; they are based in part on the denial of empirical data. The scholarly consensus a mere 60 years ago deemed the Shroud a medieval fraud; the present evidence allows a firm archaeological judgement for authenticity. And as everyone with 100% working brain knows, the simple reason why the Vatican does not claim the Shroud to be authentic is because _no one on Earth_ can prove 100% that it once contained the body of our Lord Jesus. But who out there is idiot enough to think that it was someone else in that linen?? Sounds very much like _you_ are the one that needs to wake up! Big time!!

[@theresahall1490]

@@beverlyhurd8556 Amen. Praise be to Jesus Christ, who paid for our sins and saved us. God Bless You.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@theresahall1490 Same to you, Sister! ✝

[@stephenphillips4984]

@@beverlyhurd8556 No, the burden of proof rests with people who think the shroud is genuine. You obviously have no understanding of what constitutes a valid scientific claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which is not present here because there is a rational explanation for EVERY SINGLE FEATURE OF THE IMAGE ON THE SHROUD OF TURIN. I am such an "idiot" who claims that it was, indeed, someone else in that linen. It was the corpse of some anonymous person obtained from an undertaker, marked expertly by the hoaxer with scourge marks and blood and photographed with a camera obscura and linen impregnated with a photo-sensitive chemical known to alchemists of the day. It was a genuine burial shroud that had been brought back from the Holy Land by a pilgrim. The head image was photographed separately, perhaps using a marble head sculptured to look the part. A faint image found on the back of the sheet by an Italian physicist in 2004 was the result of a trial run to check that a convincing image could be created by the camera obscura. The shroud image HAS to be a fake because the Gospel of St John clearly and unambiguously states that SEVERAL strips of cloth and a SEPARATE face cloth were found in the empty tomb. In other words, this gospel records that NO SINGLE burial sheet was left there. Christians who believe that the Turin Shroud is genuine conveniently ignore this. But then they are used to cherry-picking what they want to believe.

[@garystanfield2274]

His name was never Jesus another Roman lie.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Yeah, this is a pretty crazy idea.

[@garystanfield2274]

@@TheCordialCatholic Not an idea, total truth to all you lost Christians that believe you have salvation through that Satanic pagan name.

[@garystanfield2274]

@@TheCordialCatholic Yeah the truth to the lies is real crazy huh?

[@petermetcalfe6722]

The shroud has been proven to be fake and Christianity to be false, so give it up.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Oh who told you that idiot lie? Who _proved_ that it was a fake? Who was it, when was it and how did they do it? Oh? You don't know? Just blowing atheist lies? Yeah, that's obvious.

[@uptoolate2793]

Then why are you here?

[@petermetcalfe6722]

@@uptoolate2793 I saw the link and decided to comment.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

Yeah, Bev, just blowing atheist propaganda.. . . . . . .totally trolling.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@jeffreyerwin3665 Yup. Atheists do seem to enjoy making fools of themselves. Part of the mental illness they all share.

[@wightcatladydavies65]

l think in abstract l am resolute on the evidence this is Jesus - coming on a cloud ??????

[@StephenConti-t6j]

It's not Jesus Christ of Nazareth blood

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Really? And who told you _that_ whopper? Care to tell me whose blood it is? No? I did not think so.

[@SenorCinema]

lol what a joke

[@beverlyhurd8556]

You mean those that call it a fake? Yeah, we like to laugh at them.