The Sick Girl Trope, Explained

[@thetake]

The first 1000 people to use this link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/thetake11203

[@angierose1428]

Can you do the girl and boy duo please

[@diegom-a7970]

Please make a video about soldiers

[@trinaq]

Please cover the Gold Digger trope in a future video! 🔮📹♥️

[@choutzuyu8915]

I just wanted to tell you that my english teacher reccomended your channel. You are doing an amazing work! Thank you so much

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

I wish ya'll would do the Native American trope. Especially in time for Thanksgiving.

[@devikabhat2615]

The Sick Girl is many times the ill version of The Manic Pixie Dream Girl

[@semperfi818]

Essentially, the "Manic Sickie Dream Girl," alas...😩

[@xVadRay]

Exactly

[@Firegen1]

Fragile manic pixie. Twofer of horrid trope purposes. She'll change your life You can be her hero.

[@JC-yy8iv]

Omg you’re so right. I just watched all of Bates Motel and my friend called Emma the “Manic Pixie Sick Girl” in the first season. However she grew to be much more than that thankfully because it’s a well-written show

[@allisonlee5251]

Isnt the manic pixie dream girl already ill but just mentally ill instead so it leads the idea mentally ill people can never be truly loved and they’re gonna ruin your life/its delusional anyway so theyre just a passed on experience??? I think for the sick girl or just person who is ill in general trope needs to be analyzed and further separated physical vs mental since the portrayal of borh are night and day and mental illness has the unique double edged sword of being totally romanticized or totally villianized not to mention mental illness, the pain draws from loneliness, misunderstandings, disappointment and abandonment, showing why human contact/sociability is important (and why solitary confinement and social isolation is seen as cruel and inhuman torture) while physical illness tends to lean having more sympathy but your physical body is suffering so you have a an “expiration date”/inability to do certain things as well as infantilization and the physical changes in the body from being sick/going through treatment. Same umbrella title but wildly different themes, heck evne in the real worth people perceive each illness and their worth to the person differently. As i saw somewhere to illustrate this pointm people see dying from cancer makes you brave losing a hard fight, dying by suicide makes you a coward, why didnt you try harder but they dont understand the war of the human mind.

[@13realmusic]

It's wildly misogynistic how the sick girl is expected to make her last act on earth to help a man.

[@mariadiazrojas3446]

Or how her life would have never felt complete if she never found love. Sends a really shit message since it's really hard for disabled people to date in the first place

[@oxigen163]

Nonsense! Look at all the thousands of MALE film figures who's last act on earth is helping a WOMAN! So Jack letting Rose survive is Misandry?

[@13realmusic]

@@oxigen163 lol what? Chilvery and damsel in distress tropes have nothing to do with the terminally ill tropes. I can't think of many male versions of this trope, but they usually seem to just embrace life and love not necessarily romantic love.

[@sikishkaba]

@@13realmusic Yeah, there's this movie called 'me before you' and despite the guy being the sick one it's the girl who's helping him.Worse, the girl's already in a relationship like bro😭

[@tintincruz8660]

This is literally Your Lie in April lmao

[@thefashionhoe]

‘she’s unusual’ her: does a handstand

[@sreevidhyaea8068]

😂

[@alienatedlibrarian5017]

Well I can't do one!

[@sohndustin]

@@alienatedlibrarian5017 that means you’re uninteresting sorry

[@johnnydeleon8210]

Shes so random omfg 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Sunshainn]

Very unusual

[@favrl2112]

Me, being the “sick girl” in real life, I freaking hate this trope. They never mention how HARD it is to actually date when you are sick. People end up leaving most of the time because is hard for them to handle and adjust to our lifestyle. Because guess what? Not all sick people can go out there and have crazy adventures and live life to the fullest as this f movies tell you. Most of us can barely get out of bed sometimes. And it’s so annoying because in real life is so hard to find someone who is willing to be by your bedside holding your hand while you suffer in pain day by day. Most of the time for us the sick, that person by our sides is ourselves. Please stop fucking romanticizing this, I always end up feeling bad when I watch any of this kind of movies, like if living with illness isn’t hard enough, they lowkey make me feel bad because I don’t have an amazing love interest by my side while living through all of this, I don’t look beautiful despite feeling like shit and I’m for sure not super inspirational to others or positive 24/7. I’m sick yeah and I’m just trying to cope with it the way that I can. This movies aren’t inspirational or inclusive, they are just sugar coatted stories. So please stop or make movies representing sick people in a more accurate way. I’m begging.

[@favrl2112]

Btw I loved your take on this trope guys, thanks

[@michellemgbeke2693]

That would be depressing asf

[@artemystesfaye5377]

As a fellow “sick girl” I second this motion.

[@mugiwarafan2687]

as they said the key is to make movies based on real stories or they can make better researches. Im a medical student, i still dont go to hospitals but in a future i want to treat my patience in a good way and i want to understand them not only physically but also emotionally

[@allisonlee5251]

I think you might also want to consider what kind of illness it is (since not all illness are physically disabling to the point all activities are missed and some wax and wane/has periods of “normalcy” depending on the situation and condition). The leaving part is a generally universally shared fear but can be based upon different reasons, leading one to hate the illness/situation they are in or hating themselves since they think they are the problem and think they’re broken-forever and should just give up. Realistic can include challenges but it doesn’t have to be depressing either. Most people who are seriously or chronically ill know their situation is shitty and the more happy ending movies serve as escapism/a vessel of hope. It really depends on perception because as a chronically ill person myself (mental illness), the way my illness is represented in the “realistic sense” shows I’m going to be forever alone and die homeless, hated, pitied or drug addicted and can never be loved since im permanently broken so thats not a great feeling to have either and makes me wonder why I’m trying and i should just end it all since my actual life isn’t that enjoyable anyway. Movies can show struggles Nd shouldn’t need to shy away from them since life is full of highs and lows. Life isnt always rainbows and butterflies but its not always dumpster fire shitstorms either. The most important thing or rather what media lacks is showing just because you hit rock bottom or slip up/relapse it’s not necessarily the end and your life is doomed to misery. Hope is a cliche but hope is also what drives humans to continue trying despite difficult circumstances.

[@13realmusic]

The worst part about this trope is how people treat terminal illness immediately like they're this strong, brave person without leaving room for them to just be upset.

[@liisakuivalahti]

But that's unfortunately how many people treat cancer patients, for example, in real life as well.

[@cherryontop2141]

I hate it...like I'm not even trying to fight cancer...how am I strong or a fighter? I'm just there and the chemo makes all the work...on some people it works on others it doesn't... I'm not a fighter nor strong...sometimes I just wanna be sad about it and that's ok. Sadness just as happiness is still a part of my whole cake of emotions

[@13realmusic]

@@cherryontop2141 yeah it sounds like the phrases all exist for healthy people to feel supportive, but there isn't really a purpose to "cheering on" good health. If you're religious pray or something, also and if not just listen to what they're feeling in the moment and be emotionally available. That's the best I can think of.

[@Acrylara]

No joke when I was 12 I was in the hospital for the first time for 4 weeks. Getting nutrients, meds and water directly into my veins unable to move and my doctor really said " You're so brave" and I was like " Well yeah I couldn't do anything about it if I wanted to. I'm tied to this bed"

[@Acrylara]

@@cherryontop2141 I feel like what they really mean is "wow I couldn't imagine being this miserable, I am surprised you didn't end your life yourself" And that is very far from a compliment. I am brave for still being alive? Oh wow thanks so much.

[@yeohmiendee]

would you consider doing a Take on the 'Disposable Fiancé/Spouse' trope? the partner who gets dumped in the name of True Love™

[@yeohmiendee]

suggestion by Alex Gilmour on a different video! i wanted to put this here where you guys have a higher chance of seeing it 🥺

[@OopsieCat]

Yes!

[@dalgona4819]

YES TO THIS

[@thebunnyfoofoo]

Which brings me to add, "Happy Together." Ugh

[@loverrlee]

Yes! I want this one!!

[@icvip9753]

As someone who is actually "the sick girl" lemme tell you its not all it cracked up to be i don't have memories of tragic teen love but kids dying in front of me so yeah....not the best

[@trinaq]

I agree, being in a relationship with a dying person would be horrible on both sides. One would eventually die, while the other would have to watch someone they love slowly decline. 😔😭💔

[@availanila]

And since we survived we act weird, tell strange childhood stories, feel poorly located in time since our development has been out of tune with peers, and just so so estranged from a version of us that died.

[@mollie.28.15]

Agreed. When you’re being blasted with multiple rounds of chemo, fighting other mental health problems, puking up all the time, worrying about dying, the last thing on my mind was dating.

[@muhammadsi7717]

True my boyfriend book up with me

[@thebovineavenger]

Hugs and healing thoughts sent your way and to the kids around you.

[@doughnuthead8757]

The Jerk Boyfriend Trope. This may have given a lot of guys false hope that if their crush's bo is an a-hole, then he'll whisk her away from him as her hero. Wedding Crashers, The Office, Coming to America. They need to accept that who she's seeing is an alright guy and so they need to move on.

[@trinaq]

Yes, this is one of my pet peeve tropes as well! 😤 I loathe that they make the boyfriend/Fiancé into an utter tool to justify why we should prefer the female lead with the hero. Bonus points if he was perfectly decent before, but he randomly turns into a jerk at the last second, freeing the main couple to be together! 🙄

[@ryanedwards7487]

Also forgetting the fact that very usually these guys also fall into the "Nice Guy" trope too. They tend to be, in reality, not much better than the "Jerk Boyfriend". I mean, think about it. They tend to be stalkers, jealous, totally infatuated with their own limerance. I mean, remember that movie Snow Day? The main character finally gets with the girl, and realizes that she is nothing like what he thought she was. Sure, at the end of the day..her ex WAS a jerk. But they had nothing in common...at least they realize it before they actually do anything to complicate any potential friendship they had.

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

Bridget Jones's Diary

[@LeahWalentosky]

They did one on the bad boy

[@upsetstudios1819]

And they could also talk about the Stale Boyfriend as an opposite. The guy who's 'so perfect' but too bland for the main character to really want to be with

[@marinousky1991]

Steaming hot take: The real 'sick girl' in The Fault in Our Stars is the guy.

[@aluminij056]

He is! And a manic pixie dream boy. At least in the book, his death is shown quite realistically as he tries to put on a brave face while degrading very obviously both physically and mentally.

[@rachelhansen2417]

I was thinking the whole time, “you’re describing Augustus way more than Hazel.”

[@lindamukarakate7511]

@@aluminij056 Jack Dawson from Titanic and August from TFIOS are manic pixie dream boys. I can't name any more but if they're enough examples of manic pixie dream boys, I would like that.

[@shockingheaven]

He totally is. He's the manic pixie dream boy to Hazel.

[@mariadiazrojas3446]

@@shockingheaven lmao yeah and he's quirky and all

[@bettybane9915]

And the trope doesn’t reflect that male partners are more likely to leave their female partners during an acute phase of the female partners illness or condition.

[@lucheeese]

Prior to my condition dx my ex would be working constantly, you could never plan anything and most things were on his terms. As my condition progressed he told me he couldn't make any plans with me, and needed someone to count on, that I was too unstable. Provided most of my days were busy trying to just exist him breaking up with me for his own flaws was ironic and godsend.

[@jessicaelliott-lawrence4582]

A partner who abandons someone like that in their time of need, was never a true partner to begin with.

[@jjba3571]

@@jessicaelliott-lawrence4582 but is a thing !!! Therr are studies, men are more likely to divorce their wifes in she get sick in oppisite from woman who are expected to taie care for their sick hunbands until death

[@maenad1231]

@@jessicaelliott-lawrence4582 Well men are 6-to-7 times more likely to abandon a sick wife than a wife is to abandon a sick husband. They’re also more likely to have emotional resentment and cheat if they stay so I guess most men aren’t real partners they just haven’t been tested

[@bnadira212]

A story about the sick man is always about his life but the sick girl only exist to push the life of a man. Hmm, of course

[@a.h.9959]

... you're so right

[@loverrlee]

Or in the case of Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, a friend. But yes, primarily it’s a man. Either way, it’s sad it never really is about her.

[@sierra3644]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..................

[@ink5943]

@My baby Blue You're god damn right

[@MmmKayHuuNay]

@@Chris-rg6nm I know plenty of guys who have dated "sick" girls they just didn't/don't know it lol.

[@devikabhat2615]

The book version of The Fault in Our Stars is actually more realistic and accurate, where Hazel doesn't have a "perfect figure", etc. It is also mentioned that her face and cheeks were swollen due to the meds when she first met Augustus.

[@tori_forte]

Also she wasn't the one who died in the end. I know it doesn't take away from the film's sick girl trope but I do think it's an important difference to note.

[@inessa5923]

@@tori_forte Definitely agree here.

[@trinaq]

Yes, I love that the book was more accurate to the plight of sick teenagers in comparison with the movie, and it was also noted that Augustus was very demanding and frustrated towards the end of his life, which you rarely hear described much in fiction.

[@ShainaCilimberg]

@@trinaq He would have more of a right than demanding and frustrated guys who don't have it near as bad

[@UmbraKrameri]

@@tori_forte I think it's an important divergence from this trope. The most problematic part in this is that the girl is solely there to teach the guy a lesson about life. This definitely did not happen in The Fault in Our Stars, either the book or the movie. As they were both cancer kids, they started off as equals and they both learned things from one another as we all would in a healthy relationship. It also allowed both parties to have complex, difficult emotions about their own mortality and their relationships. Yeah, they casted attractive young actors in the main roles, but they still kept the most important values of the novel, so it is definitely in the top tier of this genre for me and worked much better than Five Feet Apart, which tried the same thing, but was all around badly written.

[@Riviwriter]

This video came out on the 11 month anniversary of my best friends death. She had a number of rare diseases, mainly mast cell activation syndrome, and passed away after a long and difficult fight. We used to have long discussions about the representation of chronic and terminal illnesses in film and books. It was a topic that always hit close to home for her. I’m devastated I can’t share this video with her, but it feels oddly symbolic to have it come out today. (For those wondering why I’m acknowledging the 11 month anniversary rather than the year anniversary, it’s because Jewish tradition marks 11 months as the grieving period and after that we memorialize the “yardzeit”, or annual anniversary of their death)

[@semperfi818]

I feel you, friend, as I still grieve a handful of beloved friends (and our Jewish forebears were optimists: eleven months isn't time enough, at least not for me)...and your friend has seen this and thought lovingly of you, if there is an afterlife.

[@jemimajanvier4706]

I’m sorry for your loss 💕

[@beekind2902]

I'm sorry for your loss xx

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

Huggles

[@trinaq]

My deepest condolences for your loss. It's eerily prophetic that this video happened to come out today, and I offer plenty of hugs in your direction. 🤗😘😢

[@Scarlet_5]

My sister’s keeper is still a wild concept to me cause honestly the parents are/were absolutely terrible. How do you justify having a child for the sake of another? A child solely existing to save your other sick child? I remember watching the movie and thinking “they don’t see her as their daughter so they?”

[@rdpcl]

Unfortunately it's not as rare as I'd like. Doctors encourage couples to have another child hoping it's a match for the sick one. It's similar to couples where one member has a short time to live and they feel obligated to produce an offspring before they die as some kind of memento.

[@lenastorm6280]

God, I DESPISED Sarah (the mother) in this movie so, so, soooo much! She never, ever cared about Anna or Jess, only about Kate, the sick child. This movie was the first one I watched, where I really wanted to punch the TV!

[@michelafiore393]

When I was maybe ten years old I watched a documentary about it. It is a “last resort”, but it is encouraged and quite common. It made me so sad.

[@lenastorm6280]

@jk trashcan Creating a human being just to ripp him or her appart without his or her consent is extremely evil. I don’t care how sick your child is, this is just incredibly cruel. Honestly, I would rather let my poor sick child die, then torture his or her sibling like that!

[@lenastorm6280]

@jk trashcan Even when you can’t have a healthy live on your own because of it? Of course family should help each other, but even to that exreme? How would you feel, if you knew your entire live, that you‘re just there to be someone else spare parts? That you actually would be able to live a happy and healty life, but you can’t because you’re always in and out of hospitals. Nobody ask the child if he/she wants to do that! The parents literally just create another human being, not to be loved, but to be cut open again and again, just so someone else can live. Yes, cancer sucks. But forcing your healthy child to go through this, is just unbelievable cruel and evil. I advise you to read „My sisters keeper“.

[@H.P._Lovecrafts_Beloved_Cat]

I think this put into words why I hate phrases like “God has a plan,” when it comes to dead loved ones. The idea that any god plans on murdering people close to you for your personal development or someone else’s is just insulting and insensitive.

[@SoWhosGae]

Same. I hate that because it's def not true. I said the same thing to someone who claimed this about a girl with cystic fibrosis who died "She was taken to teach us to love life, amen. God took her because she was too good." I was like screw you, you piece of meat with 2 eyes. I was enraged tbh.

[@burntblueberrywaffles]

Fr i hate that thought sooo much. Like, what, did this whole ass person only exist for the development of someone else? Did they not have feelings, dreams, and aspirations, that will never be fulfilled because of their death?

[@courtr1588]

"The idea that any god plans on murdering people close to you for your personal development or someone else’s is just insulting and insensitive." Ironically, God has helped many of us who personally deal with our illness... People view God as some type of genie who is supposed to grant our every wish and that's simply not reality.

[@1fromoutside]

I always hate when people reffering to god. Fuck, he always looked for me like a sadistic psychopath who just likes the fact that our world is filled with awful things and horrible people

[@lenastorm6280]

Agree. It’s one of the many reasons I’m an atheist.

[@TheTrueWanderCat]

Does the video mention how in real life a lot women are abandoned or divorced by their husbands if they have a terminal illness?

[@nesminra8982]

This is really hard and sad but goes both ways 😢

[@TheTrueWanderCat]

@@nesminra8982 which is true but it’s something that gets left out of the sick girl trope. People can be assholes and abandon their terminally ill loved ones because they can’t handle the ugly and sad reality

[@TrashyPanda]

I met my boyfriend while having cancer. I still have cancer and he's still with me. There's exceptions to rules but it's true a lot of husband's and bfs do leave their wives when sick. When reversed women are more likely to stay and take care of their husbands/bfs.

[@einhorn6105]

And... it does not go both ways. When the husband gets a difficult illness, divorce rates go down. So woman oft feel like they have to stay now that he's sick and men tend to leave. Of course that's not always the case, just statistically.

[@silvercheetah92]

They say the real Dr. Seuss cheated on his first wife while she died of cancer

[@TheLeah2344]

I feel like the sick girl troupe is always used for the benefit of the male character to guide him into his destiny.

[@nastasiajacobs583]

This!!!

[@bweeeeniee1131]

As always lol. I've seen too many films that uses the woman as a,well, tool to fix the man. Sheesh

[@mugiwarafan2687]

@@Chris-rg6nm true

[@cherusiderea1330]

@@Chris-rg6nm Which doesn't make it less valid only because you don't like it.

[@glorynjoku7651]

The Manic Pixie Dream Girl Trope

[@jemimajanvier4706]

Remember when having cancer was a trend? In the 2010s there was like this cancer hype where every show and movie was about a girl dying from cancer.

[@OceanIgs]

Me and Earl and the Dying Girl

[@JC-yy8iv]

Thanks John Green lol

[@ratlinggull2223]

There was a big trend of mental illnesses as well.

[@lbd.diaries]

@Black Ninja it's based on a true story though

[@hayleybarry7480]

YES! I had cancer in high school and people were always asking me if I had seen all those movies haha. Most of the movies aren't very good and don't really portray what i's like in real life at all.

[@zebrastrong9291]

This one really hits hard. This trope is about as close to reality as Harry Potter. Terminal illness isn’t a morality lesson wrapped in glitter wrapping paper. It’s and endless parade of doctor appointments, painful treatments and procedures, days filled with rage at a world that demands more than we are capable of giving but 5 seconds later feeling racked with guilt because “someone always has it worse than you so stop whining.” Self loathing because you somehow got screwed on the genetic lottery so you feel like a failure at being a human. Guilt because you feel like you’re holding your loved ones back and then double that guilt because you know you’re limiting their own experiences and choices through your own screwed perceptions. There’s the constant struggle of trying to live up to your own expectations and then guilt when you don’t measure up or conversely, pressured when you’re able to and then question your entire self worth based on why did this work out but not all the other things? Having every experience with a qualifier because of your diagnosis. You didn’t fail at that thing because you just aren’t any good at it, it’s because of your diagnosis. You smashed this thing not because you worked hard, but because your illness gave you an advantage or a different perspective that a normal person doesn’t have. It’s running out of spoons by Tuesday but still have to live through the next 4 days of the week.

[@jessfield81]

As a ‘sick girl’, I thank you for this video. I only became extremely sick in the last two years so I have begun to see a difference in the way Hollywood and society expects sick girls to act. I was literally in hospital and someone told me to put on makeup………

[@flowermoon2640]

Some people are incredibly ignorant :/

[@tamsinendley3130]

I literally can't with this trope. Seriously. All I think about is me, as a six or five year old wondering why I was missing so much school, why I was weaker than my classmates, and why I was always in and out of hospitals. And so I would search media for answers, for representation, and all I found were these awful messages about how romantic illness is, how little sick girls only existed to die, and how beautiful it is to perish from some horrible condition. My sickness is chronic and not terminal, but all I found in media, DESPITE CHRONIC CONDITIONS BEING MORE COMMON, were depictions of young girls dying. This kind of stuff messed me up for years and just makes me furious now.

[@Silvercentipede]

@@darielzahidpalacios1605 she has a chronic illness dude. She's struggled more than most people will in their entire lives, she's allowed to be self-absorbed from time to time

[@Silvercentipede]

I recommend a fantastic KZbinr called Jessica Kellgren-Fozard (chronically ill and disabled), she helps me a lot. I know no one can make it all better or make it all go away, but I'm listening and I care, I really do ❤️💖

[@elevenaffirmations5821]

@@darielzahidpalacios1605 she is allowed to have feelings 💙

[@darielzahidpalacios1605]

I know I just found it funny the way she started

[@Primalstrawberry]

Yo life threatening childhood illness squad??? I was also suuuuper ill when I was 6, went through the whole chemo process, and these depictions of illness make me so mad. Like, being extremely ill isn't cute at all. The meds change you so much physically, and make you super irritated at everything for no reason. And if you survive, you still could be living the rest of your life with a debilitating disability. That shit is not cute, it is just life

[@loiracitr]

I disagree that Hazel from The Fault in Our Stars is your typical "sick girl", however her boyfriend Gus ticks all the boxes: he is ridiculously positive, he is quirky and wise (the gig of the cigarette for example) and it ultimately helps Hazel to cope with the concept of loss and ultimately to deal with her own looming death. Also, have you seen how ripped the dude is?

[@elisabettaferrari7195]

He's a manic pixie dream boy

[@zainab1156]

Pls elaborate why you disagree :)

[@gaesimp__]

She is kind of

[@gabrielalima8191]

I always thought that Gus was an unrealistic guy, because he was so "perfect" (positivity, the sports guy - had a lot of trophys that he hated -, cute, romantic,...)

[@loiracitr]

@@zainab1156 the story is told from her perspective, not from a loving man who idealised her. She is not positive or sharing wisdome... if there is anything her deseas has given her is depression, not a deeper understanding of life. And at the end of the movie she is the one who has learned something from her relationship with Gus, not viceversa. We see her worrying for the people she will leave behind (her parents) but only at the end and for few minutes, this is not the focus of the movie. Sure, she is smocking hot for someone allegedly taking all these medications but yeah, that's it.

[@TheFutureSmiles]

It also seems that "the sick girl" tends to suffer from the kinds of diseases that are not meant to alter her in fundamental ways (e.g. unlike "sick men" on screen, female protagonists rarely lose a limb or end up in a wheel chair etc). But, perhaps, there's similar logic at play as with consumption, rosy cheeks and tiny waist...

[@kahkah1986]

Yes, it dramatically makes them 'more female', small, weak, passive, having to be philosophical in an upbeat, chirpy way. Losing a limb makes the male character have to become more stereotypically masculine to overcome it with lots of difficult physio etc, or it is about the loss of traditional masculine virtues of fitness, strength etc by being in a wheelchair. Maybe the female equivalent of that is a film that deals with not being able to be a mother, the same principle of feeling gender is physically challenged by illness. The sick girl trope thing is the opposite in these stories, illness exaggerates gender norms because historically women - or at least elite women - have been encouraged to be delicate, easily broken etc, and more prone to illness, especially mental illness.

[@TheFutureSmiles]

@@kahkah1986 Yes, absolutely! But on top of that, I do believe it also has to do with a way mainstream culture chooses to portray sexuality and female sexuality in particular... Which is even more troubling...

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

And as someone else pointed out, most of them are still really young. We don't see someone middle aged or older in these roles. Just having her die beautiful so that the man's ideal stays that way forever. Ick.

[@kahkah1986]

@@GenerationNextNextNext Yes, a tragically early death is a real theme, but it isn't often explored maturely, it is just used to avoid discussing old age and the more 'normal' death, or at least the just disappointingly below-average age death which people usually experience.

[@TheFutureSmiles]

@@GenerationNextNextNext While it’s by far not a regular occurrence, I actually do remember a few very good / even hit movies that had an elderly “sick lady” as a romantic lead. Even “The Notebook’s” Allie suffers from Altzheimer’s disease, when she is old... Personally, I prefer “Marjorie Prime”, who also has similar neurological issues... There are also quite a few movies that feature middle-aged ladies, as “Sick Girls”. Even SaTC’s Samantha becomes a “Sick Girl” at some point of the series.... If you notice though, those are also the types of diseases, that don’t alter “Sick Gil’s” physicality in any fundamental way... Overall, it does seem that, while still reluctant to do that, Hollywood is more ready to have a woman / romantic lead be physically altered by age than by disease....

[@sinlifemedia4759]

I have definitely always felt that The Sick Girl had a toxic amount of positivity

[@mediocreatbest9203]

I have cancer, and I personally find that the Rachel character in *Me and Earl and the Dying Girl (2015)* is pretty realistic. She was just... a regular girl, you know, who happened to be diagnosed with leukimia. I can relate to the way she responded to her illness and to other people. There were moments filled with joy, morbid sense of humor (lol), insecurity, despair, hope, etc. And although the film itself is actually the story about Greg (the "Me" in the title) and although he did learn something about life from his experience with her, I can still see Rachel as her own character with her own complex issues. She's not vain and just created for the sake of imparting wisdom to Greg, she just happened to exist in the same universe as him. (Another favorite of mine: they're not an ooey-gooey romance couple, they're just purely platonic friends.)

[@laurenconrad1799]

When the Fault in Our Stars came out, people acted like teens with cancer was a new idea, and that was so bizarre to me. Did they forget about Walk to Remember, My Sister’s Keeper, Restless, or Now is Good? Even if it is an important issue, it was an overdone plot by the time that film came along.

[@just1desi]

My sisters keeper the book was so good and so dark. I never watched the movie because I disliked the casting of Cameron Diaz of all people as the mom

[@lachell257]

You have to take in consideration their age. The only movie I recognized from your list is My Sister Keepers. So the Fault in Our Stars would be a big deal for young teens at that time.

[@natalyamartirosyan]

Also Shailene Woodley is really annoying

[@laneythelame]

But for the younger ones they may not have been familiar with those films that came before

[@leaalajbeg6349]

She neither dies nor teachs the man anything in fact he dies and it's not pretty in the book She is puffy swollen and etc so it's more on Hollywood

[@laurenconrad1799]

For every story about a courtesan like Satine dying of tuberculosis as a punishment for being promiscuous, I don’t see all of her clients dying because of their promiscuity, too. Yet another a double standard. Lol

[@thebunnyfoofoo]

Exception, "Big Nose Kate" in Tombstone ;)

[@corngreaterthanwheat]

There were several scenes in MR where I was yelling at Ewan to stop breathing in her air. We didn't get the sequel where he slowly dies writing a story about a guy who didn't understand germ theory.

[@sircharlesmormont9300]

If it helps, ALL those late 19th century courtesan stories are adaptations of the same novel: La Dame aux Camélias by Alexandre Dumas fils, which is based in part on Dumas-fils' actual lover. And they all leave out the really gross part in the beginning when Armand literally digs up Marguerite's grave. It is heavily implied in the book that the cause of her death is not consumption, but syphilis, and is remarkable for the way in which the society of the time may condemn Marguerite, with curious citizens and bailiffs gawking and literally selling off her property just feet away from her as she languishes on her death bed, but the book paints her as virtuous and loving despite her profession. The gruesome scene at the beginning is followed by Armand's bout of "brain fever" and the story is partially told from his sickbed. So... even though Armand does not die in the book, the plot really does seem to imply or at least hint that Armand may also be headed for a tragic end. I found it a little disingenuous that The Take referenced several adaptations of this book as though they were independent creations following a trope instead of adaptations of the same tale.

[@horace6851]

​@@corngreaterthanwheat Many people have latent TB in their lungs, also in healthy people the immune system can fight it off without the infection developing. It's not deadly to everyone otherwise it would wipe out majority of humanity like plague, it's so contagious.

[@ManuelaOliveiraMusic]

@@horace6851 true, but there’s also a vaccine.

[@trinaq]

I've noticed that whenever a girl is on the brink of death, she appears to grow more beautiful as her time wanes. Roger Ebert christened it "Ali McGraw's Disease", after the female lead in "Love Story."

[@semperfi818]

Exactly -- or, as it was styled in the _MAD_ magazine parody of, yes, _Love Story,_ "Old Movie Disease," which causes the dying patient to become "more beautiful by the minute."

[@laneythelame]

When the reality is probably exactly opposite

[@Mibbitmaker]

@@semperfi818 I love the ending, too. Having the Ryan O'Neal character going, "What can you say about a tear-jerker movie that makes death so beautiful? (and other fantasies in the movie)" Then her voice from the great beyond, in giant lettering: "BULL(SHIT)!" Ryan: "Thanks, Penny.... you *just said it!* "

[@karolineCPH]

Yeah, they mentioned this in the video at 6:44

[@AliciaNyblade]

"This is what we call 'pity porn'." I feel that. People with disabilities have a term for movies and memes that depict us in a similar way: We call them "inspiration porn". I've been visually impaired since birth and I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every time a character who's blind or V.I. is depicted as helping other characters to "REALLY see things" or put their life into perspective. I shine my own light for myself, thank you very much. If that somehow helps someone, cool, but it's not my job to be a human lighthouse. Expectations to be inspiring 24/7 are hard enough to deal with as a person, but they're magnified in my work in several fields of storytelling (fiction writer, playwright, and actress). It's very rare to find authentic representation in roles and stories, which is why I became involved in tale-telling myself to fix that. I'm currently working on a play adaptation of Victor Hugo's "The Man Who Laughs", which features a leading lady who's blind, a girl called Dea.

[@arwenspicer]

I'm excited for your adaptation of The Man Who Laughs. Dea deserves some humanizing. In fact, her name meaning "goddess" is not super subtle. Wishing you the best with it!

[@AliciaNyblade]

@@arwenspicer First of all--holy crap, you know "The Man Who Laughs"?! Yay! It's so rare to find fellow fans of it I can discuss the story with and they'll know what I'm talking about. Secondly, yeah, as she's written in the original novel, the only descriptions of Dea are that she's beautiful, blind, and loves Gwynplaine. But that's been a lot of fun for me as the playwright because it's left her as sort of a blank slate to explore, and to break down the stereotype that blind people must not have much going on upstairs because of their blindness. As for Dea's name meaning "Goddess", I think that's one of the most moving aspects of her character. For a story written in the 19th century to have a female character who represents the divine, and a disabled female character at that, seems rather ahead of its time. Plus, as a Wiccan, I can bring into the writing process the understanding that the sacred feminine is much more than the dainty, chilling-on-a-cloud figure many perceive her to be. Goddesses come in all sorts, and Dea should reflect that.

[@DavidLopez-lj1lp]

Is interesting that in the Fault in our stars, Augustus follows this trope more than Hazel. Even though Hazel is the one dying from the beginig, Gus cancer comes back and he dies before the ending, while Hazel doesn't. Also, he embodies the manic pixie dream boy trope being handsome even in sickness, romantic, funny and basically perfect and is the one that teaches Hazel to live to the fullest before dying in a sad way. Basically he is the "Sick Girl" in the story.

[@Wawagirl17]

I wouldn't really say that Gus "teaches Hazel to live life to the fullest." Sure he's very positive and witty, and they have a lot of fun together, but later in the movie when it's clear that he isn't going to recover and will likely die very soon, he actually falls into a depression over not being "special" or achieving all of his dreams of greatness, and Hazel is the one that needs to being him back down to Earth, reminding him that a smaller life is not a lesser life, and that all of those things aren't that important, and are frankly overrated. I agree with most of the points in the above video, but I do love that film. It's more layered than it appears on the surface.

[@whitefang238]

and then, we who get sick in real life have to deal with depression shaming, not getting well or being well shaming and a load of toxic positivity and magical thinking, adding more pain and loneliness

[@skullsaintdead]

Yep and worst of all, in most places you can't even end your life painlessly because people who don't live with debilitating pain and diseases that will kill you are the ones who write the laws and are usually religiously biased. Imagine the audacity of that. To tell someone in unimaginable pain, who will die, that they must stick around because it makes you uncomfortable.

[@skullsaintdead]

@The Antagonist I'm really sorry, while I don't have a terminal illness, I do have chronic pain (endometriosis, undiagnosed for 17 years). I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to end our lives humanely if the pain consumes and destroys whatever lives we once had. Why exist in pain? Its not like you can go out, see friends, can't work, can't contribute in any way. I kind of see it like the poor people at the top of the World Trade Center, the jumpers, they didn't want to die, they weren't even suicidal, they were just faced with an impossible choice: either be burned alive or die painlessly in a split second. How could we ever judge them?

[@yellowtogold-5550]

Imagine asking a man permission to die 😂😂😂

[@csillakaszas7285]

reminds me of 50 shades, girl climaxes at command...

[@celestia7269]

@@csillakaszas7285 this is hilarious

[@Alias_Anybody]

That also exists in the context of the "I cannot self-terminate" trope, basically someone is controlled by someone or something else and asks a friend or lover for a mercy kill.

[@dhfjgktdmfhfj1716]

@@Chris-rg6nm No they are just better at acting. They know you cant make it happen or know the difference 😄

[@dhfjgktdmfhfj1716]

@@Chris-rg6nm I am a woman. I know how it works ;)

[@abracadaverous]

The essence of this trope is a romance that's perfect, specifically because it doesn't last long enough for the lovers to get tired of each other.

[@anna_in_aotearoa3166]

This!! 😭😂 It's just like those sitcom writers who finally get their will-they-won't-they couple together at the end of s1, only to have them suddenly split up again at start of s2 so we can just have more drama...? 🤦🏻‍♀️ So many writers just don't seem to be able to see the interest or drama in depicting people working on a long term real relationship!

[@alienatedlibrarian5017]

I was surprised you didn't mention the surprise ending to Fault In Our Stars, which arguably upended that whole thing. She lives, he dies. There's something to unpack there.

[@freya1132]

This channel often leaves out key stuff like that

[@sarahgray430]

Speaking as a person who has lived for 46 years with a chronic (but not terminal) hereditary neurological condition and who has seen much loved family members die, I have always found the wispy, romanticized "sick girl" trope infuriating. I think it's about time Hollywood put this stereotype out of her misery and replaced it with a more realistic angry and even ugly character who SURVIVES illness and learns from it.

[@favrl2112]

YES PLEASE

[@favrl2112]

As a member of the chronic illness community I’m begging

[@laurenconrad1799]

There was a short lived TV show recently starring Lucy Hale who has childhood cancer and spends her teen years living life to the extremes and then ends up cancer free and also screwed since she now has no practical skills and little education. I loved the concept of satirizing all those other romantic cancer-ridden teen movies and showing how ridiculous those films were.

[@neigeepierrot4694]

I liked that show also since it brought up important points about what it is like to have a chronic illness which are rarely talked about

[@rkgk1517]

Such a shame that show was cancelled. Lucy Hale had a streak of bad luck.

[@ibhistory106]

i knew i saw it somewhere. over here in good ole Mother Russia we've got a similar show. Also a girl with permanent cancer now in her early 30es who are kinda cured and learn to live her life not like it's one day to live. Was/Is a minor hit around here. I immediately thought that the story is too good for russian screenwriters to come up with but didn't have a proof

[@orangeradishneo]

there was another show that came out just a few years before that one, on freeform. i forget what it's called off the top of my head, i think "life sentence". It's been a while since i've watched it, but from what i remember it did a good job at portraying someone fighting cancer in a non stereotypical way. Alexa & Katie, although for a younger audience, it's also really well done at creating a 3d character with an illness.

[@mariaskabardonis8353]

I admit I weirdly do like some sick girl movies like A walk to Remember but I liked how this critiqued them and how it's non functional to live life to the fullest longterm. I wish the show lasted longer

[@trinaq]

Being in a relationship with a dying person would be horrible on both sides, not romantic, in real life. One person has to die, leaving behind their loved ones, while the other has to watch the person they love gradually fade away.😭💔

[@AxxLAfriku]

I recently revealed the genders of my two girlfriends. It got a lot of hate and now has 30 times more dislikes than likes. I am really sad that people can be so mean. Sorry for using your comment to talk about my problems, dear trin

[@Ray03595]

@@AxxLAfriku you revealed the genders of your girlfriends???

[@KitKatLag]

Exactly! Reminds me of the song Death Bed by Powfu. It’s catchy but it has really sad lyrics.

[@clairebear1975]

@@AxxLAfriku I did not expect to see you here

[@yespls6260]

Well why can't people who go through it define it for themselves how they want to? I get that it's over-romanticized and exploited by Hollywood, but people sometimes romanticize their own lives and stories to cope with the horrible reality they live with every day. It's not necessarily realistic for a reason-- being terminally ill is horrible. The "sick angel girl" trope is definitely annoying and does fetishize sick people. But people do fall in love with terminally ill people, and just because it's unpleasant doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be told as a story.

[@bertkesurf]

Should be interesting to see what kind of movies come out depicting our society dealing with COVID.

[@shrishti6406]

😂😂😂

[@Foshiizzell1]

Michael bay already got us with Songbird xD

[@Abominatrix650]

1. (Not my own suggestion, I heard this one months ago on Facebook): A generic action movie starring the Rock as "Scientist" who must fight the terrorists for the cure of the virus 2. Everything we've just seen in the video but with COVID-19 just yo be relevant to current times.

[@user-jk3jz4yv9i]

i already know i‘ll hate those movies

[@amelier1715]

They already did a whole show 💀 it’s awful

[@devikabhat2615]

Kaori from Your Lie In April portrays a somewhat realistic version of this trope. Towards the end she is shown to be frustrated, lonely, sad and used to snap at Arima. Also she is shown to be having mixed emotions like wanting her friends to carry on without her, but still not wanting Arima to forget her. The horror and pain of slowly dying, losing someone, and most importantly living without having any regrets and pursuing your ambition is so beautifully told. I lowkey recommend this to anyone ever, especially if you want motivation.

[@spookymadeleine]

I've been fighting lupus for six years now (it's put me in the hospital quite a few times). When I tell people I hate being called "inspirational", I would have the worst time explaining why it bothers me; this video, honestly, helped externalize what I couldn't verbally describe. Being chronically ill is almost fetishized. When dealing with a chronic or invisible illness, people aren't privy to what your endure daily; when you finally disclose with them what you battle constantly, their attitude can shift to the point of you're babied or you've suddenly become infallible. The sentiment, through their eyes, isn't one of malice but it feels almost objectifying. Chronically ill people are just people living with a certain disease or condition.

[@dominiquep9193]

Do a video on the “sacrificial” movie ending and “creepy child” tropes

[@princesspattycakeswm]

What do you mean by sacrificial movie ending?

[@TheITinFIT]

Overly Sarcastic Productions did a good video on the Heroic Sacrifice trope. Go check them out :)

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Or do the Redemption equals Death trope

[@Nai-qk4vp]

@@kittykittybangbang9367 "I died so all of you MUST forgive me, regardless of me actually showing remorse or atoning for my deeds" Shittily written redemptions.

[@msnorringtonsims6536]

I love that you touched this subject. As a teenager in the 90s, I was obsessed with this trope. The most romantic thing I thought could ever happen to me was to die in the arms of a man who loved me desperately. To pass on heroically, bidding him to live his life, meanwhile believing/knowing/hoping his life was forever changed for having known me at all. Never getting over me or being able to love again was just icing on the cake. Yeesh

[@Encentix]

Yeah this is just utterly insulting to ppl like me who actually have chronic illnesses. Being in pain is not romantic at all. It‘s insufferably terrible and coping is difficult. This dream situation of dying in ur lovers arms like that is nothing real. It‘d be the most aweful thing because when ur in pain ur body can‘t handle intimacy or sometimes not even touch. When im in pain I can‘t stand other ppl. Only if it‘s really bad and then it‘s not a relief. It‘s actual torture cause u know they can‘t save u from the pain. It‘s honestly miserable. A realistic nice way to die wiuld be them getting pumped full with pain meds so they could actually enjoy their last moment of intimacy. But oh no! Drugs bad! Even if u NEED THEM like fu*k off hollywood. Yall only care about money. The ppl who make this crap literally need to have their making movies licence revoked for slandering all disabled ppl on earth. Seriously. Ur so priviliged to be healthy and cheeish that like nothing else man! Cause in this world that favors the healthy over the ill it‘s a LOT easier to live life while not being ill.

[@yamataichul]

It revolts me that romance like this is not perceived as wrong. Especially for the fact that is kind of common knowledge where the "standards" of beauty originates from.

[@myname4654]

Your avatar image looks familiar...

[@restreven4455]

Pale, thin waist, tiny hands. British People were weird. They were in love with people who had tuberculosis (consumption).

[@yamataichul]

@@myname4654 I was thinking of showing that I'm romanian. I don't comment a lot, maybe you saw me commenting on helluva boss ep. 1?

[@myname4654]

@@yamataichul Nope, pur și simplu mai văzusem imaginea undeva.

[@yamataichul]

@@myname4654 buun!

[@valentinaarbasettisanz4405]

What i don t like about the sick girl archetype is that it creates an expectation that someone with a dissease is suppose to act happy when they have all the right to feel sad and angry, when the person who s not dying is the one who should encourage them

[@feliscatus7057]

The Fault In Our Stars movie really didn’t do the book much justice. I watched it before I read the book and now I think it portrays illness very well. It doesn’t romanticize it like the film does, it’s pretty realistic. Hazel is referred to as sickly looking multiple times in the book, she even says she looked like Augustus’ ex just before she died because the medicine puffs your face up in the same way. She and Augustus are both allowed to have truly disgusting and disheartening symptoms to their illnesses (I can never forget the gas station part) and are still written as attractive to each other, on a level deeper then physical. I wish people stopped hating the book because of the movie because it’s much better than it.

[@AveryTalksAboutStuff]

I've never been a fan of tragic love stories. There's enough sadness in the real world.

[@dinakisa1049]

Ikr? There was this Netflix movie I couldn't get myself to watch. I can't remember the name. The girl realizes she has cancer when she thought she was pregnant. Then she starts searching for the perfect woman to marry her husband after she dies. I didn't finish it. I was already depressed, I couldn't watch it.

[@AveryTalksAboutStuff]

@@dinakisa1049 yikes, that sounds traumatic. I wouldn't have finished it either.

[@vivvy_0]

not all tragic love stories have to be this trope, and just with every form of art it exists to express emotions, to find a way to process tragic things. you can’t denie people to make art that is important for them no matter how bad reality already is, that would be cruel

[@AveryTalksAboutStuff]

@@vivvy_0 Oh, I agree and I never want to tell people what to like. It's just a personal thing for me. I know there are exceptions.

[@burntblueberrywaffles]

Exactly! I want a happy ending, is that really too much to ask?

[@aguy3705]

it's kinda creepy how in "five feet apart" (2019) the characters have to practice social distancing for health reasons (before COVID) and one year later everyone has to practice social distancing measures.

[@samathajeanmonroe5575]

It’s funny cause Jason from the good place said he ate a bat and spread a virus somewhere I forgot what episode it was though

[@yespls6260]

I remember watching the film about a week before lockdowns started.. foreshadowing :/

[@noonebossesthegarnet2890]

Damn it I wish it was called “Six feet apart” instead lmao

[@mariadiazrojas3446]

@@samathajeanmonroe5575 yes he got a virus named after him for kissing a bat on a dare

[@Wawagirl17]

Yeah, I find it amusing that us CF-ers have been instructed and reminded "Six feet apart!" our entire lives long before COVID. LOL!

[@raeplays92]

"Morbid Manic Pixie Dream Girl" < yep that sounds about right

[@alexgilmour3907]

Would you consider doing a Take on 'The Disposable Fiance' trope? The spouse, partner or fiance who gets dumped in the name of True Love (TM).

[@katmccauley2088]

Real sick girl here! At the same time I was first experiencing symptoms and going through the medical circus trying to get a diagnosis , I was also being viciously bullied by my friends/classmates. This stung not only because of the bullying but because of how much these girls idolized the Fault in the Stars. They simultaneously fangirled over Hazel while isolating me and going around saying I was possessed. I began resenting this stereotype and was even been criticized for not liking these types of movies. As I've learned more about my chronic illness and learned to live with it, I've grown less outright resentful toward these movies and instead view them as a tool for advocacy. Understanding them helps start dialogues with people about my own experiences and how it can be dangerous to view life through Hollywood's lens. Thanks for this video and shoutout to all my fellow spoonies!

[@The482075]

Yeah, this genre is a patronizing one that's the only purpose is to make people cry. It sacrifices realism in order to manipulate people into tears. What happens when this "romanticizing sickness" genre gets its grubby hands on the COVID-19 pandemic?

[@loverrlee]

Oh no I’m not ready for a Corona death on screen, but I’m sure it’s inevitable. 😭

[@sweettomatosauce5503]

Michael Bay is already working on it...

[@The482075]

@@sweettomatosauce5503 I hope not. You know what might work? Get one one of those Psychological Thriller directors to do it. It could be set right at the start during the first lockdown. A family are living in lockdown and develop cabin fever.

[@neuralmute]

Well, for fact checking, I can tell you what I looked like (as an official Sick Girl!) after a month and a half in bed with COVID-19, (complicated by asthma and autoimmune issues) only having been able to get up long enough to use the toilet for most of that time, so those filmmakers get the look right! I was scary skinny, since I'd hardly been able to eat for a lot of that first month, with dead pale, almost grey skin, covered with bruises from the blood thinners I'd been taking, with sunken eyes and dark raccoon circles, and visible stink lines because I'd been sweating buckets and hadn't been able to get up long enough to bathe! Let's not even get into the sticky, matted hair, ok? Damn, serious illness sure is glamourous!

[@The482075]

@@neuralmute Oh wow. Covid19 did a number on you. I hope you're feeling better.

[@meekonaleash]

Never noticed before but can't believe this is common enough to be a trope

[@bluegreenglue6565]

Me too! I saw the title, thought about it, and then said, "Hey, they're right."

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Just look at TV Tropes

[@petscopkid]

Same

[@jeremiahnoar7504]

It's not really a trope though, it's an architype. I wouldn't expect The Take to know the difference though.

[@AlexBlank]

"Illness is the night side of life, a more onerous citizenship. Everyone who is born holds dual citizenship, in the kingdom of the well and in the kingdom of the sick" - Susan Sontag, Illness as Metaphor

[@Hallows4]

Sounds like something that wouldn’t be out of place on a Criminal Minds episode.

[@laneythelame]

Yepp

[@ratlinggull2223]

I don't get what that means, frankly. Why doesn't she just say 'Everyone can get sick'?

[@M3GPie]

I had a chronic illness that started when I was 15, and the personality of the “sick girl” described me pretty accurately. Despite this, no boys wanted me. No friends wanted to hang out with me. When you’re sick, people abandon you so much. Now that I’m better, people want to stay around me soooo much more. This trope is terrible.

[@dem5571]

My biggest problem with the “sick girl trope” is that it indirectly passes the message that women aren’t allowed to suffer in an “ugly” way, in a real way so to say. Even in death we are supposed to be pretty and mature and some kind of saviors. It’s just another version of the manic pixie girl and I hate it. And even when we are dying, it always have to be about men and their feelings.

[@shoujokadyan5502]

The Japanese movie (Taiyou no Uta) that Midnight Sun is based on is more focused on how the heroine Kaoru fulfills her dream of becoming a musician. There is a love story between her and her crush she sees everyday outside her window, but her dream came first.

[@shoujokadyan5502]

@pink girl I've heard about that one.

[@natashafigueroa9198]

I will say, that as someone who has battled some major health scares, this hits home. It would also be amazing to see how it actually impacts the partner of The Sick Girl. Often, the partner is so worried that romanticism and sexuality usually flee pretty quickly.

[@lhpkazuha]

Wait, in Moulin Rouge, Christian spent the entire movie not knowing that Satine was sick. He didn’t know she was living on borrowed time, and Satine is far from a pixie dream girl. Hence no “Life Is Precious” lesson. I think it’s more like a “Love Even For A Short Moment Is Worth It” kind of trope.

[@Maerahn]

But that's also what made it so ridiculous. Satine had a terminal, wasting disease that would've knocked the stuffing out of her, leaving her exhausted, frail and looking like an emaciated child LONG before she actually died.... and he never figured out she was seriously ill until literally two minutes before she died? How unobservant was HE for a Love of Her Life? Even more ridiculous... the woman was performing full-on song-and-dance numbers right up until two minutes before her death! THAT'S NOT HOW TUBERCULOSIS WORKS!

[@NobodyC13]

Moulin Rouge! is a retelling of the Orpheus Myth and Satine is Eurydice. Her illness is either the serpent that killed her and sent her to the Underworld (the Moulin Rouge) or the moment when Christian as Orpheus going to the Underworld to save her, only he looked back and lost her forever.

[@gracelament]

The protagonist often doesn't know information the audience does. Just because Christian doesn't know Satine is sick doesn't mean that it doesn't colour the audiences perceptions of the character far before the point where he finds out.

[@lhpkazuha]

@@NobodyC13 huh, I didn't put two and two together. But now I think about it, the moment in the movie when Christian looked back and Satine died is uncanny

[@lhpkazuha]

@@gracelament I'm arguing that Moulin Rouge in particular doesn't fit nicely with the criticism put forward in this video essay. Yes, their depiction of a person with tuberculosis can be problematic, considering the dying Satine constantly performed on stage till the very end. But the story doesn't fit with the "Life is Precious" trope. This trope relies entirely on the male protagonist's awareness and perception of the female protagonist's sickness, and also the female protagonist being a pixie dream girl type. Regarding the audience, the message was delivered right from the beginning. We know Satine died, and she spent the whole movie living on borrowed time. We also know from the beginning that Christian was at the lowest point of his life after her death, instead of having a "Life is Precious" epiphany. But, the lesson of the movie delivered from the beginning, and what Christian realized at the end of the movie, was that "The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return. "

[@pyreworks5210]

I think the "doomed lovers" trope is so popular because before the relationship gets even deeper where both parties will dissappoint each other and show real flaws, someone will die in order to preserve the first stages of love. The romance ended before it could truly turn into the sour reality that most realistic relationships have and the only flaw their romance has is that someone has to die. Idk maybe im too pessismistic but I think thats part of the appeal.

[@baebanxx6942]

This has to be one of the WORST romantic tropes of all time, I hate it so much!! Just watch theres gonna be one about coronavirus too !!!

[@autumntaylor-buffington1875]

There already is, it’s called Five Feet Apart, the whole plot is that the couple wants to stop social distancing so they can date and rarely wear masks!

[@gardeningkittycat6025]

@@autumntaylor-buffington1875 I hope it's meant to be a parody

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@gardeningkittycat6025 I think that movie was mentioned in the video

[@davidalves31057]

There's no way someone it's going to romanticize that, it's like trying to romanticize the bubonic plague!!

[@trnigyul]

Ya'll remember Claire Wineland? She was a terminally ill woman who used her time to educate others WHILE living her best life, what a wonderful girl I would never forget her.

[@favrl2112]

Yeah she was amazing, she deserves so much recognition for what she did for the community, of course, I admire her deeply. But she was always clear about how annoying it was to be put on a pedestal or in this “celestial” aura just because you’re sick.

[@trnigyul]

@@favrl2112 Yes thats one thing i loved about her, she was so real with it. She had an illness, we did the education and we moved past it to enjoy claire being a flawsome young lady.

[@cherryontop2141]

In my opinion five feet apart meant well but the way they directed the line of the story was kinda disrespectful towards Claire...idk it just felt like main character only is interesting when she's trying to help Will

[@pikel7]

Yes! That's who's story I would prefer to see. Much more real.

[@dem5571]

I miss her so much, she was such an amazing person and so real.

[@bascal133]

I LOVED the eulogy from Gwyneth Paltrow's character about her dad in the movie Proof (2005). That's one of the only movie depictions I have ever seen that really gets the horror of caring for a sick person (Melancholia does too) she talks about him shuffling around the house muttering to himself, him having angry outbursts "he stank" I REALLY felt that.

[@daneroberts1996]

this video had soooo many movie clips with husky whispering and beautiful melancholy background music 😂, once they're all gathered together you start to see how similar all those scenes really are

[@jonsey_2730]

As someone who has been chronically ill since birth, I appreicate this video so much

[@elliieebit]

As someone who has been battling multiple chronic illnesses since 2014, I love that The Take tackled this topic. Great analysis!

[@upsetstudios1819]

The Perfect Boyfriend troupe. So many times we've seen couples where the man is super nice, 'the perfect one', and yet the story is taken over by a guy with very little respect for consent / laws about stalking / common decency. What makes these 'great' men so undesirable?

[@sammykent5752]

Can you give examples of what you're talking about because I don't understand your point?

[@lh9591]

James Marsden in Superman/The Notebook/X-men

[@upsetstudios1819]

@@sammykent5752 an example off the top of my head would be April Kepner from Grey's Anatomy. She finds the perfect man, he's so similar to her, so caring and thoughtful. He's handsome and a genuinely good guy that makes her feel safe, but she still gives the relationship up in favour of the unserious 'bad boy' Dr. Avery. In a different comment I called this the 'Stale Boyfriend Troupe', where a man can do and be everything right, but the woman is "soulmates with someone else" or somehow still dissatisfied with him. He's just an obstacle for the 'true pairing' to get over, which often includes cheating or flirting behind his back.

[@upsetstudios1819]

@@sammykent5752 I suggest you read the discussion under the "Jerk Boyfriend Troupe" comment

[@sammykent5752]

@@upsetstudios1819 OK you MASSIVELY confused me there when you said April O'Neill because I was having a hard time figuring out who the fuck April O'Neill is in Grey's Anatomy. But I think you meant April *Kepner* , not O'Neill. But yeah I understand what you're referring to. Although April does get back together with Matthew and has a messy divorce with Avery. But no yeah I get the trope you're referring to. It's actually a set of tropes to be precise. "Disposable Fiancé" (look it up on tvtropes) comes close to what you're describing. There's also the "Romantic False Lead" which is also pretty close.

[@Ennahdee]

The Sickboy trope is perfectly shown in the film Trainspotting

[@Foshiizzell1]

bubble boy? :D

[@JC-yy8iv]

@@Foshiizzell1 yes Bubble Boy has a sick boy, but this person was making a joke because a character in Trainspotting is named Sickboy

[@Nanthecowdog]

Choose life, choose a career, choose a fucking big television

[@thabimajija856]

The Take is really putting smashing it. This is one of my favourite channels

[@GinervaWeasleyPotter]

I’m really surprised you didn’t discuss how a lot of TFIOS subverts these tropes. Like how hazel is admits she’s depressed and hates the way her hair looks from the chemo and knows in her heart all her friends have abandoned her because she became too sad and too much much work. And how she actually finds a new appreciation for life from a male cancer survivor. Even the character at the end who dies isn’t her, but the male love interest. Or that TFIOS was based on the life of John Green’s friend Esther and not purely fiction. I don’t know, I felt like that could have been mentioned.

[@rebeccaosser4907]

Yeah, but they are presenting a spesific argument against these kinds of films. Saying that would lessen the point they where trying to make. That's sadly how most people present opinions, they use everything that supports their argument and ignore everything that dosen't. I personally think it's quite disingenuous, but I guess that's just me. Don't get me wrong I like this channale, and I do mostly agree with their take on this trope. I just really dislike how they select examples and ignore things that could make this discussion more complex in favor of convincing people that they are right. This isn't the only video by them in which I have thought this. But again I know this is how it works. What bothers me even more is that most of their audiance seem to wholeheatedly agree with them without thinking for themselvs and making up there own opinions, which is kinda dangerous if they apply the same attitude to other situations as well.

[@markcoren2842]

Another great episode... thank you! I can't help noticing with this trope that the sick characters always have access to seemingly unlimited amounts of health care whose logistics and demands seldom intrude on any character's ability to be present in their experience. That I've seen, loved ones working endlessly to cover shortfalls, lack of insurance, unavailability of needed services, and bankruptcy lawyers don't to exist in this universe. There is typically an unspoken support system that is magically at work behind the scenes. When there isn't one, the protagonist have an otherworldly maturity (as mentioned in the video) that has no emotional needs beyond whatever can be met by their surroundings and seldom seem to grieve the situation. For me, seeing these stories leaves me feeling hollow and insufficient rather than somehow inspired or emboldened.

[@ZoraXire]

if you want to watch a really good modern story of the "sick girl" before it was modern, watch "Beaches" starring Bette Midler and Barbra Hershey. It really captures female strength and hardship through friendship, and the "sick girl" in the film is mostly shown as a complicated person who lives a full life, who then must struggle with the fact the her health is now changing for the worst. There are highs and lows as she comes to terms with her situation. Then the other characters deal with the aftermath of moving on after death, but always remembering the good times, and leaving behind legacies that won't be easily forgotten. it's an excellent watch and was made in the 80's which is also saying something.

[@maudinapalmer5751]

I dont really feel satine fits the mold of the sick girl. She mostly had a harsh outlook. Also she didn't know she was dying till the very end. And Christian didn't know she was sick until she died so he wasn't like infatuated with her being sick or anything.

[@PhoenixRising87]

Does Mimi from Rent really count? Yeah, she's dying, but...half the cast is dying of the same disease (including her love interest)! And the one character in the show/movie who DOES die isn't her.

[@homosoftommorow]

Yeah Mimi doesn’t exactly fit in this trope in the way they describe it. However there is a lot to be said about her as a character and how she was written.

[@Hana9916]

@@homosoftommorow Hazel from The Fault in Our Stars also doesn't fit in with many of the things mentioned here. She's a moody teen and she falls in love with a sick guy, she learns from Gus more than he learns from her, and she doesn't die (though she has a terminal illness)

[@Silvercentipede]

I think she fits some of the principles though, being ridiculously full of life, beautiful and lovely in spite of being a dying, heroin-addicted stripper (just to be clear ive nothing against stripping, but obviously it's not a very romantic combination when it's all 3 of these things. I sort of feel the same way about "The A Team" by Ed Sheeran. I'm not saying being a stripper is the same as being a prostitute, but we do have this weird romanticism with girls with illness, substance abuse issues or.... I don't know how to put this, not "sex work", but work of a sexual nature Mimis supposed to be this sort of manic pixie dream girl to Roger, but she's a 19 year old girl who's stripping for a living, is addicted to herion and dying from HIV, which is a kinda tragic life Women who are strippers but have an otherwise healthy lifestyle are ofc different, but we can assume Mimi didn't get into this for good reasons

[@michelafiore393]

I think Angel fits (even though, wrong gender). Too pure for this world, always so beautiful and glammed up (“Happy New Year” and “Cover You”, makes it all better by just existing, lives life to the fullest (Today For Me Tomorrow For You), literally dies and ascends to another plane of existence (Contact in the musical) and shows up to stop Mimi from dying. Manic Pixie Boy to the max. In the meantime, he’s dying of AIDS, which exemplifies the other side of the trope (illness as punishment).

[@lh9591]

“Me before you” had a sick boy, but the woman still was responsible for trying to fix him, and sent a terrible message that his sick boy life wasn’t worth living, even with her in it. I hate that movie.

[@heyhorinshi]

And they would never be together otherwise he even acknowledges that he wouldn’t look twice her way if he was his healthy self

[@bouncyshak]

Forrest Gump's Jenny didn't just live an indulgent and bohemian lifestyle - that's a shallow reading of her character. She self-medicated due to trauma.

[@shelbyk7229]

Yes agree. I could write an essay on her character.

[@charlottemartyr]

I think the point is, while you can read her as a very sympathetic character who did complex things, the movie itself frames her lifestyle as being wrong, her illness as being a punishment, and her transformation at the end from a troubled beatnik to a model housewife as her redeeming herself for her previous vices. I personally would see Jenny as a victim of her circumstances, but I don't really think the film would agree with me.

[@StephBubbles]

and also, it was Hepatitis not AIDS

[@ashleightompkins3200]

I'd be interesting in seeing a video on the parents in fiction that define themselves by their kids sickness or their disability. Like My Sister's Keeper or The Act

[@catmat9449]

Not a sick girl, but Me Before You was exactly the same thing. Personally, I think if Will wasn't sick, she would have not even fallen for him.

[@dhfjgktdmfhfj1716]

True neither was eachothers type. He had to be completely immobilized to have any redeeming qualities and he would've found her completely boring as she would've seen him as a childish jerk

[@UmbraKrameri]

To be fair they were self-aware enough to say the exact same thing. XD

[@dhfjgktdmfhfj1716]

@@UmbraKrameri True 🤔

[@catmat9449]

@@UmbraKrameri haha true. That movie just seemed like emotional pandering.

[@jennyft4055]

Well yeah, that's the point of the movie. They even have a discussion about it.

[@grey29825]

This made me think of Helen in Jane Eyre as an example of a woman getting the wisdom and whimsical spirit of a dying girl.

[@csillakaszas7285]

hah! I was thinking of Melanie in Gone with the Wind and Beth in Little Woman. Sick girls don't need love interests to be perfect angels, they can be one for their sister's/ frenemy's sake, with the added bonus that they can look more sickly.

[@Wawagirl17]

@@csillakaszas7285 Ooooh, Melanie from "Gone with the Wind" is a very good example. I don't know if she fits the traditionally "inspirational" mold, but definitely in her being extremely sweet and perceived as "perfect."

[@ingeborgolder1102]

Would really like to see you tackle the "inspirational disabled person" trope!

[@rebelyell23]

I wish you also included Emma from one of my favorite series, Bates Motel (who was also played by Olivia Cooke from Me and Earl and the Dying Girl) because she was such a subversion of this trope. She had cystic fibrosis but was a lot more than that. She had a crush on Norman but didn't only exist for him. She was headstrong, smart, never self-pitying, took ownership of her sexuality, was one of the only mentally healthy people in the series, and ultimately not only got better (through a lung transplant) but got to live the life she wanted. This also made me realize that Olivia Cooke needs more recognition and roles. She's really talented.

[@Hannah-yn9oj]

can you do a video about euphoria? i think it has some rlly interesting characters!

[@mariacarolina508]

I'd love that!

[@roxann222]

I second this

[@angelmora3660]

Pleaseeeee

[@aliam4699]

@@Chris-rg6nm Like who?

[@chasityboatman4928]

This trope reminds me a lot of the manic pixie dream girl trope. In both that woman is an accessory to the man and provides him with love, hope, aspiration, and a unique perspective. A pit stop on his journey of self discovery. In both tropes, the women leaves his life and he's a "better man" for it.

[@sophroniel]

Me, at 27, just learning I need a $50k jaw joint replacement surgery for my left jaw due to aggressive rheumatoid arthritis rendering it crumbling within 8 months, on the same day I found out my job is medically retiring me: HEY SO IM A SICK GIRL, WHERE'S MY COOL MAN WHO'S GONNA FALL IN LOVE WITH ME AND MAKE THIS MIND-NUMBING PAIN WORTHWHILE LOL

[@semperfi818]

Prayers and good energy to you, friend -- may you get through this and prevail.

[@yamataichul]

I hope you the best! My thoughts and prayers goes to you! 💐💖

[@kristamarie3856]

I feel you Sophia. Sending good vibes and healing your way

[@christophg.6339]

Holy shit! Is there any chance that a person in the US gets access to proper healthcare? 🤦🏻

[@semperfi818]

@@christophg.6339 I got lucky almost 5 years ago when my surgery and subsequent chemotherapy for prostate cancer were covered by my insurance (I live in SE CT); today I give blood regularly and am still a valid organ donor, so I'd say I was cured without having been ruined financially. May all who need good care be able to obtain it.

[@seoeomii]

9:40 "YOU"RE JUST GONNA DIE???" Well I mean shit I can't just call up the office to see if I can reschedule so-

[@p0lyxena]

This trope has a lot in common with the Beautiful Mysterious Broken Suicidal Girl (I don't know if that trope has a name lol). In the Looking for Alaska miniseries especially (SPOILERS), each episode literally has a ticking time-bomb countdown to her demise, and she's treated like a beautiful mysterious free spirit wise beyond her years who inspires others with her personal philosophy. (Instead of like... a traumatized teenager whose cries for help went ignored by everyone around her.) Hannah Baker in 13RW is the same except she's already dead, so she literally only exists in the male protagonist's mind and only talks to him. Hollywood really has a thing for beautiful, inspirational young girls who exist to change men's lives and don't overstay their welcome by living too long, huh? 😗

[@alexiaivan7708]

The thing is, when I was literally “the sick girl”, it simply let me see the world I was living in and that giving up is not a solution. So, I visited every other patient in the hospital every day and helped raising their spirits up. I thought that we were already in a shitty situation, why should we feel horrible? It didn’t mean the time will pass any faster, so why not have a pleasant experience? Funnily enough, the others really liked my happy-go-lucky attitude and I’ve made a lot of friends and nice memories there.

[@SalakotCinemas]

I can totally see the Sick Girl trope being another manifestation of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl that just needs to be saved

[@perrydowd9285]

I actually knew a real manic, pixie dream girl in real life. She was actually an unapologetic arsehole (that's not a criticism btw. I'm sure she would agree with me, but hit me for saying it anyway).🤣🤣🤣 She didn't need saving, or want to be saved. All she needed was 27 hrs in a day.

[@TiffyVella1]

Or fridging, but slower and over more chapters. The defining part is that her suffering and death has nothing to do with her own story, but instead serves everyone else's character arc.

[@aidan_drawin]

What a bizarre trope this it - the tragic unrequited love, and loss... love your take on it!

[@DaemonKrown]

And what about the family? The parents suffering for never seeing her beautiful daughter marrying or struggling with the money? The brothers having doubts about their sister, not knowing how to say goodbye? . . . NOP, they don't matter, this is all romance after all

[@clarimm6675]

omg yes I always think this! At the death bed, it's always the partner who is by her side while I'm here like "where are the parents/relatives/friends?". Idk but it just irks me that it's usually the man (who only got to know her for a short time in these typical stories) by her side and no one else...

[@Amberk1985]

I live with a chronic illness. I have had it since 17. I have had people put me in this trope. I am expected to be endlessly positive and strong. It gave me awful anxiety. Thanks for this video.

[@sophiatalksmusic3588]

I wonder if Coronavirus will effect how this trope is portrayed, since it's becoming such a widespread disease.

[@helenmudge9989]

Let's hope not! I definitely don't want to see a load of Coronavirus movies in a couple of years.

[@jupiterisaak1004]

Damn you right. I can see teens dying of corona virus romantic drama coming soon on Netflix. Especially since it’s contiguous.

[@yeohmiendee]

this channel is always spot on. watching these help me reflect and i start to catch harmful archetypes in films i never saw them in before. i look forward to every upload, by far my favourite film analysis channel!

[@kaizalindberg8825]

I'll be honest, I've never thought about the repercussions of this trope. I love hearing about it and actually understand how it can hurt both those dealing with illness and those who have ill family and friends. Big thank you to all the people writing about it and to The Take for making a video on the subject!

[@Asuna.Stacia]

Another character who fits this trope is Kaori Miyazono from the anime: Your Lie in April. However, I feel like they did a good job with it. She helped Kosei (the male lead) through his trauma after the death of his strict and abusive mother, and the subsequent fear of playing the piano. After meeting her, she helps him to be able to play piano again. As musicians, and friends, and eventually lovers- they are equals, who inspired each other

[@madikkenemmaliezeldathomse5397]

Thank you! I've been having this trope for years! Thank you! Sick people, like all people, are more complex than them being sick, and I feel like the least complex 'sickgirls' often get bland, non specific, unreal illnesses. 🤦🏽‍♀️

[@The482075]

Romanticized and whimsical female whose purpose is to teach our male hero the meaning of life. Sounds like The Manic Pixie Dream Girl to me.

[@ibhistory106]

yep. it's just a sick (disposable) version of that trope

[@joycewambui9024]

I don't think that whoever makes this movies knows just how much terminal illness sucks for all the parties involved .

[@a.claudiasilva9589]

Loved this. Also feel the mother from HIMYM should have made an appearance. We were so disappointed when she died- it's like the sick girl trope but an extended version, as she was only there as a stepping stone for Ted to realize that, even though he loved her, he had never stopped loving Robin

[@thenewkhan4781]

As someone who expirienced children and teens dying from terminal illnesses I hate this trope. There's no beauty in painful death. It's not the dying person job to make other people grow. Hollywood is sick for making death of cancer look "romantic".