The Simple Problem of Consciousness

Don't sweat over the difficult problem of consciousness - it's simple after all.
Patreon Channel: / martinbutler
The books: "A Minority Interest" and "Corporeal Fantasy" can be found on Amazon.
Website: martingbutler.com/

[@keyhimself3542]

Life is nothing more than temporary consciousness

[@almari3954]

"Consciousness is much more than the thorn, it is the dagger in the flesh."

[@Darniros]

Thank you for uploading Martin, these videos are very interesting and entertaining. Makes me feel less alone :)

[@olegwiththeknowledge1729]

There are also countless parts of my waking day that I cant recall but I know I was conciouss of when they happened. This is the same as deep sleep or general anesthetics, just because you cant remember doesn’t mean you werent there.

[@WilburSmith-cw4uo]

The concept of 'consciousness (CCS)' can help alleviate the fear of death in the following way: 1. Martin rightly states that when we die, our intellect, memory, feelings, desires, and everything that constitutes our mind cease to exist. 2. In CCS theory, the 'mind' is what we generally refer as the ‘I’. For example ‘I like banana’ should be read as ‘mind likes banana’. Not ‘my mind likes banana’. Because when you take out the mind there is no ‘I’. Of course you don’t practice this kind of thinking 24 hours a day. Only for 10 or 15 min, when you have free time, going through the day internally and then try to replace the ‘I’ where ever it appears in the narration with ‘mind’ 3. The individual is then presented with a choice: to identify with the mind or with CCS. 4. If one identifies with the mind, then their identity dies when they die, as the mind ceases to exist. 5. However, if one identifies with CCS, then upon death only the mind goes, but CCS continues to exist. This means that when we sleep, CCS is awake and observes the emptiness because mind is not producing anything, and when the mind produces something in the form of dreams, CCS observes those dreams. 6. CCS is like a CCTV camera that merely observes what happens in its presence. So when you die the CCS will observe nothing because there is no mind to produce anything at all. Of course, why go through touching your nose around your head while you can simply say there is no CCS at all From a young age, we are conditioned to believe in the concept of the first person through language. We answer questions like "What is your name?" "Where did you go?" "Why did you do it?" so many times that we develop the notion of an 'I' doing everything the body does. We mistakenly conclude that the thoughts we observe in our mind are thoughts 'we' created, and we take ownership of them. However, if we acknowledge that billions of neurons come together to form the 'self,' and that the 'self' is merely like a mouse pointer previewing what's happening in the mind, we can gain a new perspective. For example, if you're planning to see a bank manager for a loan and make a note on the calendar, you can articulate that it's the mind making these plans, and you're simply observing it. Whether or not the 'I' takes credit for the mind's actions, they still happen automatically, like the Earth revolving around the Sun. These concepts can be useful as we get older and help us overcome depression. Initially, until around age 40, people may not be interested in letting go of the 'I' and replacing it with 'mind,' especially if they're successful and happy with their life. However, as we get older and our journey starts descending, latching onto CCS can be helpful. To truly understand CCS, one must engage in practices like breathwork and observe thoughts while holding the breath. CCS is like the concept of God; in popular culture, God is perceived as a being in heaven with feelings and plans like us, but the true concept of God is much deeper and not everyone will be interested in exploring it. Similarly, CCS requires practices that alter one's perception without the aid of drugs like marijuana. It is the practice that alters the perception not just believing the CCS. The CCS acts as teaser to hook the person to get into the practice Thanks, "[e-mail]"

[@awakeenlighten2298]

Thanks for this one Martin!

[@ZoniZahiRoniZahi]

But you can't cognize nonbeing. That's why you're here rather than there.

[@francisdec1615]

In English you even say "brain fart", which indicates that consciousness is similar to digestion. We say "hjärnsläpp" in Swedish as well, though that word isn't as obvious, since "släpp" might mean both "fart" and "loosening" - "the brain is loose". And Scrooge says that Marley's ghost might just be a piece of badly digested potato.

[@mianilsson3550]

Att det finsk någon i Sverige, som är intresserad av sådana idéer, är förvånande!!!

[@francisdec1615]

@@mianilsson3550 Nja, Sverige är ju inte precis intellektuellt, men det är klart att det finns enstaka svenskar som är intellektuella också.

[@mianilsson3550]

@@francisdec1615 jag skulle säga ” sökare” än intellektuell, efter att utforska meningen med livet med allt som mänskligheten erbjuder, förstår man att det är bara tröst för att undvika verkligheten… då hamnar man hos ” glädje dödaren” Martin Butler!

[@astral5ram]

It's rather easy to point out, follow and categorize all the processes of digestion that result in release of gas, as of now that hasn't yet been done with brain processes and functions that should release consciousness.

[@glendamann4098]

Hats off to your wife ... I am at the stage of self acceptance or the idea of. I saw you on tik tok and k owing there are no accidents in my life. I am happy to explore your content ty 😊

[@user-cv8zi5re7f]

I usually get up at the time I need to get up without using an alarm clock.Am I conscious when I sleep?

[@stewartj00701]

Instinct is another very strange one, how we and other animals are born with pre programming, this programming must be hardwired into our genetic code, it amazes me how that could even be possible.

[@Ajajajjddjd1917]

Yep. Its so precise

[@Minotaurus007]

Not easy to program. Testing countless versions, produced just by random mutations, the fittest versions slowly increase in the population over 1000s of years. But you can reproduce it: neural networks just learn how to play chess without being taught. Just give them the rules. Finally no human can beat even these neural net progams like alpha zero.

[@Ssssyyyyyyyyyy]

Unconsciousness is the story you think about while being conscious. As a matter of fact, you only ever know consciousness. There are stories about it being eternal and independent of the body and there are stories saying it's a function of the body. Both will forever remain stories.

[@avatarion]

The only reason unconsciousness exists as a concept is because there is another observer making the distinction. For every foreground there has to be a background for it to be noted.

[@Minotaurus007]

However the second story is much easier to substantiate: alter the function of the body and you will observe changes in consciousness.

[@adamkallin5160]

Anesthesia could easily be awareness but not awareness of anything and/or a wiping of the memories and we wouldn’t know the difference.

[@josefk332]

Famous thought experiment: A hypothetical teleportation device works in the following way. Prior to teleporting it measures the position and type of every atom in your body, then dissembles your body before precisely re-assembling it in another location. Presumably ‘you’ and ‘your consciousness’ would momentarily cease to exist but then would reform with all your feelings and memories intact in the new location. However, the next time you use the device something goes wrong and instead of re-assembling just one of you it creates two of you. In which body and location do ‘you’ and ‘your consciousness’ exist?

[@francisdec1615]

Maybe that shows that consciousness isn't really "real" at all.

[@f.364]

Since it creates two of you then it creates two of your consciousness. You will have a twin. You will not experience him as yourself but as another person who looks like you and so does he. Both of you will starts with the same memories but soon diverge. This of course if you also assume living beings are just biological machines. If you believe there is a soul then it will not reassemble 2 souls because the soul cannot be measured

[@josefk332]

@@f.364 It’s not as simple as that. Which body will ‘you’ and ‘your consciousness’ inhabit? If (say) they are both created at the same time.

[@ciararespect4296]

Consciousness isn't made of atomic material though?

[@francisdec1615]

@@ciararespect4296 Of course it is. But it's decentralized, so you can lose a large portion of your brain and still function as before, if the remaining part of your brain is healthy.

[@stevefrompolaca2403]

what if consciousness is just an interface, a gui so to speak? what if I am not my consciousness? what if it is just my secretary so to speak?

[@Minotaurus007]

You probably mean: the brain is the interface. Right? And the consciousness comes from outside and is working through the person?

[@stevefrompolaca2403]

@@Minotaurus007 no not from outside, from inside, the heart leads inward, the brain deals with the outward

[@msredpoll]

I dont disagree with any of this but the fact that we can experience the process of consciousness makes me feel that there is something about life that we'll never fully understand

[@That_Freedom_Guy]

Hi, thanks for that interesting video. Before we were conceived we were in the same state that we call death, (unconscious or more accurately, non-consious and without a living body.) Yet, "we" emerged from this background state and literally materialised, aware and intelligent! That's miraculous enough, so if it can happen at least once, why is it so unreasonable that it could happen twice or more? I'm merely speculative, but is that a valid view?

[@avatarion]

What do you mean by valid? Science cannot answer such questions. Ask yourself, what do you feel about it? Do you know anything but consciousness?

[@That_Freedom_Guy]

Hi. By "valid" I mean is rebirth as I described it, consistent with his materialist view of life and death? Because it seems that way to me and I just wanted to hear other opinions because I learn by listening to others, and I've been wrong before. What I feel about it is what is possible to observe, that our physical senses taken altogether makes up our consciousness because I am unaware of that which I can't detect. Do I know anything but consciousness? No. Thanks, you got me to look at it differently and that's great. 👍🏻

[@zbigniewmaleszak1310]

No. Consciousness is much more than a mere perception of reality. It’s alive and doesn’t need the body to survive. Martin presented a materialistic view. Soul is the thing!

[@Minotaurus007]

Seems however, that "his" simplistic view is enough. You will have a hard time to describe consciousness without experience.

[@Dontwannaknow44]

It’s as if being “conscious” is unconscious and being unconscious(sleep ie true state) is conscious. I think Schopenhauer once wrote that when you die you waking up and in your supposed “waking state” you’re sleeping/dreaming.

[@thatunconsciousguy9306]

What do you think of the unconscious mind?

[@MartinButlers]

According to Freud, the unconscious is the repressed part of us because it would be too traumatic for it to be conscious. I personally think that is only part of the story.

[@thatunconsciousguy9306]

@@MartinButlers That is very interesting. what other parts of the story would you add from your experience and interactions with the unconscious mind?

[@freewareplayer]

I find this type of reasoning odd. The obvious rational conclusion to me is: we dont know,for we have no current way to quantify any of it. Claiming consciousnes dies is just as presumptious as saying it lives. Definetly doesnt sound more rational..

[@T.J]

There is just no way to prove that consciousness disappears when you fall asleep. All that we know is that whenever we are awake, we cannot remember having been conscious of anything during the night (or maybe we'll only remember a few dreams). That is all.

[@jacekmiksza505]

Are dreams less real than the awake state?

[@T.J]

@@jacekmiksza505 You would need to define what you mean by « real » otherwise I cannot attempt to answer. But if real means made of physical matter then I don’t know. Because I have had lucid dreams where I decided to touch objects and surfaces of walls and furniture (within my dream) to test how real it felt compared to when I am awake and it felt exactly the same. I also tried looking at objects very very closely and it also looked just as detailed and felt just as « real » in my dream as in daytime « real » life. But maybe by « real » you mean something else than physical matter ?

[@jacekmiksza505]

Absolutely. The physical matter seems the most common and easiest managable by our five senses but that doesn't mean it is the only reality. Some mystics say the next step for our civilization should be going beyond our five senses .. @@T.J

[@ikkedanudannu8063]

I think David Bohm had a better grasp of this subject...

[@yvesmachiels1076]

So there is no hard problem of consciousness...?

[@hectorlamar806]

What about dreams then. When we sleep. Would they not be be considered to be a type of consciousness?

[@MartinButlers]

I should have said deep dreamless sleep.

[@hectorlamar806]

Unfortunately, that's something I rarely have, if ever.@@MartinButlers

[@francisdec1615]

@@hectorlamar806 You probably have dreamless sleep every night like most people.

[@yepsure4202]

Dreaming for me is like a hyper conciseness.

[@DaringDan]

Imagine thinking all of this came from nothing.

[@marienemeh5424]

The fact that consciousness "disappears" outside waking hours, or after death, is simple. But why go straight to the extreme? Perhaps it's simply a temporary transformation of consciousness, an adaptation to different cycles, rather than a radical "disappearance"? Okay, there's anaesthesia, but I can't talk about that, I don't know anything about it. And also, that consciousness is strictly utilitarian, at certain times rather than others, and is born with life and disappears at death, is fascinating. The fact that it flickers and is only an "attribute" doesn "t detract from its interest in form and content. But I've probably misunderstood the purpose of your podcast.

[@Dontwannaknow44]

Consciousness is more of an entertaining idea rather than an actuality imo. The potential thought of it is kinda mental masturbation. I even questioned if “consciousness” or the state of being conscious is an actual thing.

[@marienemeh5424]

interesting thanks @@Dontwannaknow44

[@axel1million]

Why does 'anything' require consciousness ?

[@arturzathas499]

who said it does?

[@axel1million]

@@arturzathas499 Baumeister R. F. et al. Posits a requirement in "On the Necessity of Consciousness for Sophisticated Human Action".

[@chromakey84]

How else would the thing exist? Consciousness and it’s objects are one

[@axel1million]

@@chromakey84 A rock exists without consciousness? According to contemporary scientific thinking. Why does a rock exist without consciousness and a human apparently unable to exist without consciousness? What is it that necessitates a human to be conscious?

[@jacekmiksza505]

@@axel1million That's the differene between existence and living. To be alive is to be conscious.

[@noahbrown4388]

From several life experiences, I still think that there is a LOT more to this reality than meets the eye. But our own personal consciousness is probably one and done

[@unknownhollow4141]

Ghosts versus npc's. Pepsi versus Cola. Does anyone offer water?

[@byronchurch]

I believe in sleep during dreams I would call many of my experiences relatively conscious .

[@hectorlamar806]

Actually, could consciousness really be applied only to creatures that are aware of their own sentience? ie: humans. We see, for instance an animal and we say that it is conscious but is the animal aware of it's own consciousness? Just a crazy thought.

[@KarlHessey-db6mf]

Maybe we are not even conscious compared to more intelligent beings

[@avatarion]

Consciousness isn't required for intelligence. Artificial intelligence runs on 1's and 0's but lacks consciousness, for reality isn't made up of 1's and 0's. Reality is infinitely complex and interconnected.

[@ThisIsIt0000]

Existence itself encapsulates consciousness.

[@astral5ram]

I think that saying "Consciousness is a function of the brain" it's not an explanation at all, is like saying radio waves are a function of the radio or air is a product of lungs, where there was nothing something as complex as consciousness cannot arise and similarly something as complex as consciousness cannot dissolve into nothing. I'm not talking here about our physical experience being perpetuated forever, our wishes, feelings etc. I will believe consciousness is a simple product of interacting neurons when it will be created artificially, as of now materialism seems to struggle with proving that time, space and matter are real, to say that consciousness is a product of the brain like urine is a product of the kidneys doesn't work for me, I don't see why a property that's not material can't exist. Not talking here about self, not I, it's not about that. To call intellect "an accident" is cheap and convenient, I don't even think it's worth discussing, also intellect is not consciousness. If you'd blow up the human brain to the size of a town, you won't find consciousness in it, not now, so, for now, if it didn't start with me and the formation of my brain I don't expect it to disappear with me, I will but it won't.

[@Minotaurus007]

Maybe "consciousness" is much easier to understand than time, space and matter. Very soon there will be AI you cannot even tell it is AI.

[@astral5ram]

@@Minotaurus007 There's tons of stuff still written on consciousness showing we're far from understanding it. AI is nothing but a parrot at this point, we are very far from strong AI.

[@mikkirefur]

wow. people still think that consciousness is only the function of the brain. OH! they dont know HOW ? obviously they do not.

[@michamichalak6200]

The problem per se is simple, mechanics are hard. How from material (neurons) arises seemingly immaterial (experience, emotions, feelings, etc)? Well, in my opinion we never will be able to answer this question. How do neurons compute change of energy (emf) into consciousness? This is astounding. Computation of integrated circuit is easy in comparison to consciousness.

[@f.364]

This is dialectic materialism and assumes that there is only the body and a consciousness, there is nothing else. This is the believe in materialism. Also consciousness doesn't disappear in sleep. You are in another world of dreams it is turned from the outside world inward. Even in deep sleep you cannot say there is no consciousness. There could be a forgetfulness barrier. There could well be consciousness without memory to return with. What you are basing your argument on Martin is the belief that 'if we don't see it then it doesn't exist.'

[@kristandevries4835]

This Vid is indeed full of mistakes and way too short...

[@deborahbutler]

There is a lot of scientific evidence for this. Wishful thinking is hoping for more and not facing facts.

[@kristandevries4835]

@@deborahbutler there is sooo much more...the fact that you did not encounter that does not say that you KNOW the truth about everything that others maybe dó experience.

[@deborahbutler]

@@kristandevries4835 many pretend to know the truth about everything. Science is facts we can prove. Nothing wrong with this video as all he points out are provable facts.

[@jasontrucker007]

What a bummer

[@myscat]

consciousness is nothingness just like everything else, but nothingness isn't as empty as it seems to us

[@chromakey84]

The Buddha made a clear distinction between self, and consciousness.

[@simovihinen875]

You're being very generalizing about "spiritual people". Doesn't remind me of those I've been involved with. If not existing (unconsciousness, death) isn't a thing, then eternal existence is a thing.