The Small Company Making an Alternative Customizable Derailleur

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Interview with Aaron from Madrone Cycling Components. Follow their development story here: madronecycles....
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[@idrissamorehouse322]

The future is RIGHT TO REPAIR !! LUV THE MISSION AND PHILOSOPHY = SO IMPORTANT FOR THE FUTURE!

[@SixGunTodd]

Madrone is an absolute class act....talked a bit with the owner via text, genuinely a guy with a solid idea and fair pricing. On my way to rebuilding another two AXS derailleurs and I'm in no way sponsored.

[@felixjackson2670]

Actually kept my attention for the whole chat..never heard of madrone before. Wish them every success. Our Corporate driven bike industry needs folk who want to add some good engineering-quality-longevity-ethics even. Thank you.

[@stephenkohler3472]

I installed the 'super shim' from Madrone on my XX1 mechanical derailleur recently and it's FINALLY shifting the way I thought it would when I spent the insane amount of money for it.

[@TheOtherPlayer]

Love what madrone is doing, glad to hear from the guy who started it

[@MrGoodaches]

Really appreciate the the conversation being a sanity check against the absurdity of over complicating derailleurs. In the 1970s I was racing in ABL and USCF events with Simplex derailleurs. I envied those that had Campy but only envied the beauty, I never felt at a performance disadvantage. In modern times I’m very satisfied with the SRAM X5 index system for the 3x9 on the trail bikes my wife and I ride constantly on and off pavement. I did replace the bushed trolleys with cartridge bearing trolleys and recommend that upgrade. Our Surly ECRs have Shimano Deore moving the 2 x 10 drivetrain. Absolutely no fuss after numerous bike packing trips including GDMBR in 2018. I have been immersing waxing chains with plain paraffin on all of our bikes for a decade. The cleanliness makes a huuuuuuge difference in easy cleaning and longevity of all the drivetrain components. I’ve ridden e-shift. The novelty was fun but I did not find any meaningful advantage to justify the cost and complexity. I may feel different if my paycheck depended on making the podium. Shaving a few milliseconds on shift time is meaningless to me. Having reliability for thousands of miles from a simple design made from high quality materials means much to me.

[@andrewrivera4029]

I tried the waxed chain and they rusted within a few months on both a new chain and a used one. Back to the Rock-in-roll lube.

[@curtvaughan2836]

I really admire the goal this fellow has in repairing derailleurs. I just wish, as an aside, that folks wouldn't always talk of cycling "as a sport". Yes, bicycle racing is a sport, but cycling is so much more than racing. It's transportation, it's recreation, it's exercise, and it's healthy and usually fun. Yeah, and it's also sometimes a sport. It's the emphasis on "sport" that leads to the highly expensive, high end marketing of bicycles to people that really don't need carbon fiber frames, electronic group sets, and crazy expensive carbon fiber wheels and precision electronic gears.

[@jeremylukedominicbate7482]

I keep hearing that too.. Why assume people will be using a bike for sport when the majority of cycling world-wide would be for transport? Yes, the industry is completely sports driven.. really unfair on the average bicyclist. Enough already.

[@davidpayne8413]

Curt, I totally agree, I gave my car to my daughter and retired to the Philippines, I'm 71 and ride a Giant Fathom 29er. My fathom is my everything, it'd fun, It's exercise and It's my only transport. I installed a full Shimano XT Group set, because I wanted the ruggedness, so my set up is not top of the range and not the bottom. It is however perfect for the rough back roads I ride, even the main roads are poor. At my age I'm not competitive, just need a solid reliable ride. I had no choice but to shell out for the XT for the above reasons, I agree everything bike seems to cost an arm and a leg. When I was younger a bike was everyday transport and fun. Only the roadies spent big money on bikes. It will be the last bike I ever buy, luckily, I'm able to do my own wrenching and only need the LBS for consumables and if they can’t supply there is always the net.

[@davidpayne8413]

@@jeremylukedominicbate7482 Jeremy See my reply to Curt - I ride my fathom bec it's entry level and more than good enough for my everyday cycling needs.

[@H457ur]

Agreed; for almost everyone who rides a bicycle, cycling isn’t a sport, full stop. I’ve been riding seriously since I was 12 years old, and I have owned dozens of bicycles, including many “racing“ bicycles, and I have never once entered a race or trained for an event. Cycling is a hobby, a means of transportation, or a platform for fun. I’m sorry to say that, in my experience, people who treat cycling as a sport don’t really seem to be having any fun.

[@johnathonsanchez8811]

Well I think everyone’s experiences are different. I started on basic Fuji feather single speed because I just wanted to ride my bike party pace. That changed for me, now I’m doing events and training for stuff I could never do years ago. I absolutely love the sport and recreational side of cycling. You can have and enjoy both.

[@jefffixesit60]

Thanks for addressing these technologies and their problems/benefits/solutions. I’m an old cycling fanatic, 69 years young and still learning. I’m still getting most of my needs met by using 3x9 and 3x10 components, both used and new. However, I’m not against 2x** systems, as long as I can achieve an equally wide gear range and maintain a reasonable price point. Some of my performance tweaks include upgrading to sealed bearing guide and tension pulleys for Shimano 105, Ultegra, and XT derailleurs that didn’t have them, mixing 9spd XT and XTR derailleurs with 10spd cassttes and early 105 and Ultegra 10spd shift/brake levers for affordable road and gravel setups. I’m also not against electronic shifting, but it holds no advantage for my cycling needs… yet. One advantage I can see with e-shifting is having the indexing built into the derailleurs instead of the shift levers. Being a lifelong tech-nerd and gear-head, I’ve often dreamed of dual-cable, derailleur-indexed shifting, or some quasi-Rube Goldberg clockwork shifting scheme that was self energizing from pedaling forces… I’ve never been one to let practicality inhibit my dreams!😁❤ Thanks again for producing another thought provoking episode, and thanks to Madrone for challenging the industry giants and the status quo.👍🎉❤

[@peglor]

Shimano made a front derailleur where shifting was powered by the cranks over 20 years ago, but it was for the cyclists who have no idea how their bikes work category of customer. The modern version is electronic shifting and a dynamo hub, with the added benefit that you can power lights and other items as you go too.

[@Anton.M-np6ky]

His passion and devotion to the development of his ideas and product BIG RESPECT!

[@jeffandersen6233]

Fascinating discussion on peak mechanical and e shifting and a knowledgeable and well spoken guest. Russ your questions were spot on. The costs of newer higher end derailleurs around $400 astounding. I feel fortunate to have old Deore and 105 parts that still work.

[@javiersmith2216]

And the cost of manufacturing new derailleurs has fallen. (Electronic derailleurs are cheaper to manufacture than mechanical.)

[@markroberts6971]

They were great to see at the Made Show. Great concept. Handsome derailleur.

[@solarheat9016]

For 5,6,7,8,9 speed you can get an Acera or a Deore and upgrade the pulleys to Ultegra sealed cartridge & ceramic Centeron plain bearing for $20. I got an 11-34 tooth Sunrace 7 speed cassette and it rides just fine. I don't really miss the 2 extra gears that the 9 speed has. I suppose if I rode on flat all day I might get a little annoyed at the wide ratio steps but flat is the exception here on the West Coast. Good 8 and 9 speed cassettes can be had for an extra $5 or $10 and will last a really long time.

[@shawnhoulihan7794]

Mechanical shifting forever!

[@ChlorophyllCrusher]

I can’t wait to have my first opportunity to fix one of my derailleurs with Madrone parts and scream from the rooftops: fix it!

[@sethchapman8001]

i really love what this company is doing, everything should be moving forward to being repairable and long lasting. electronic derailleurs are just future landfilll, way too much to pay for a disposable product, plus environmental impact of the batteries.

[@mpetry912]

you're right, the bike world has gone nuts. thanks for hosting this discussion.

[@twofortytwo]

Even if made 100% in USA and "affordable" this is a small boutique business that may or may not be around in 3 or 4 years if you need repair parts. Heck, can people still get parts or service for the short lived derailleur from Paul Components? If you like it and can afford by all means support the business, but just know in the future it could be nice looking paperweight on your work bench.

[@KennethWuAU]

Madrone should start making Brompton derailleur and drivetrain alternatives. There's a lot of money to be made there I think. Even Paul Components have jumped on the Brompton specific band-wagon.

[@tubularmonkeymaniac]

A few machined components from AliExpress etc

[@MishaDaBear]

I still Have Deore and Deore DX, and Deore XT on 3 of my bikes two are friction! All 35 years old or older!

[@MishaDaBear]

BTW, MY Old Man Fat bike has a hateful One BY gearing. No one carries large hole 64mm 4 bolt chainwheels (Granny Gear 64mm rings use a smaller hole!) as I want to add a 24t chain wheel to the stock 36t so I can add a second ring

[@feedbackzaloop]

DX was released 34 years ago, fyi.

[@TheSmurf900]

Older shimano stuff really last, but these new ones dont

[@MattKremer]

My daily rider has Deore as well! My regular road bike has Suntour 😅

[@tubularmonkeymaniac]

Going back to 10 speed on my next build. 12 speed = mo’ money mo’ problems

[@keirfarnum6811]

10 speed with 2x up front. 👍🏻

[@flybyguy1450]

Microshift advent x is where its at

[@nitronaf]

inspired by this channel, i am running apex 1 drop bar levers with cues 11 speed derailuer and cassette. they're both 1:1 ratio. an incredibly cheap and reliable set up too :)

[@caitlinwilliams5460]

I got inspired too and now I’m running apex1 brifters with a gx10 RD and a down tube shifter xD 42-30t, 11-42t

[@stevefiete]

Thanks!

[@kennethward9530]

While I appreciate the rebuild parts and strongly dislike throw away design, one of the advantages of friction shifting on 3 of my bikes (downtube on road bike, bar end on tandem and indoor trainer) is every ten years or so when something does break or wear out is I can grab whatever shimano derailleur that’s on sale cheap and it will work very well.😊

[@andrewrivera4029]

Great interview, I have AXS wireless shifting on my trail bike and have had it replaced once due to failed servo gear. I thought it would give me less trouble that the cable derailleur but flawless shifting has remained elusive. I’d love to see a derailleur that works flawlessly for several years if Madrone comes out with a derailleur I would like to try it the only issue is is I travel 6 months out of the year so servicing it maybe a problem as shops around the country wouldn’t have the parts. Will sign up for the Madrone news letter.

[@RovePaths]

I'm staying mechanical (brakes & shifting) and under $3000 in my country for a complete bike. I don't need a higher cost bike to enjoy the ride. Keep up the amazing info and work Russ!

[@montrose252]

Di2 turns a bike into a throw-away consumable like a phone, rather than a life-long love affair.

[@aaronedgeart]

This is needed, exciting and about time. Great coverage and stoke here.

[@subliminalfreedom]

Fantastic, I look forwarding to buying one in the future!

[@jayobannon5359]

You know what is weird, I have a shimano 105 (5800) from 2011 that still works just great. According to Strava I have 23K miles on it. I had a an Ultegra Di2 that bellied up after 9000 miles. I have built up 2 bikes in the last 4 years with ultegra mechanical and after about 6K on one and 8k on the other I have been exceptionally pleased.

[@tubularmonkeymaniac]

105 and ultegra up to 11speed is magic

[@mblasavage]

Agreed! Ultegra mechanical or even grx 8100 is super durable.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

16000 km on TRP G-spec 12 speed. Still going all original parts except pulleys 😊

[@a1white]

I have a 10 Speed Ultegra. Works flawlessly

[@raysmith9324]

Cant wait for this!!!!

[@mortenmoldrup4783]

I'd buy a classical looking (silver) 9-speed derailleur for friction that can handle like a 11-36. Like tomorrow ;-)

[@escgoogle3865]

IDK if the silver long cage microshift is still available. RDR-51 (36T max) and RDR-47 (used for ages with a 48-36-24 combined with a 7sp freewheel)

[@solarheat9016]

You can't have my Shimano Deore DX. (both sides of the cage are thick chrome plated steel: not for a weight weenie)

[@escgoogle3865]

@@solarheat9016 RD-M650 in the parts bin for the next 7sp project.

[@andyrandy0815]

Paul, Precision Billet, ... were also pretty repairable :-)

[@JohnnytheBikeGuySLC]

Loving this ❤🎉

[@peterschoen841]

Great video. I think i heard, "easy to clean" in there.. super. Add easy to lube into the design and it will be the best ever.

[@drill_fiend1097]

I think he needs to talk with Louis Rossmann to talk about bicycle repairability.

[@45graham45]

I still run XT 11 speed - cheap to replace if needed so I presume that is why they don't make parts for Shimano.

[@supremeflagship8965]

I hope they make a RIY (repair it yourself) front derailleur too... for the triple/double crank crowd.

[@cecilecorpuz5735]

The cost of current day bicycle parts is totally insane, I myself I'm good with Vintage 80's and 90's 3X6 and 3X7 and perhaps 3X8 gearing we older guys, GEN Xers will just simply make so called out dated gear work for us, one to mention 1st Gen Shimano DEORE DX, it's pretty much bomb proof and they can be found on the cheap, $ 15.00 to $ 25.00 of which I'll have a good stash stored away. Then there's the Vintage 90's SUN TOUR gear these are great as well, XC PRO, XC COMPE, XCD and so on great users, of course these will not work with the current day monstrous cassettes. And Vintage 80's/90's NOS SHIMANO UNIGLIDE cassette cogs are readily available, if you just need just one or just 2 cogs then you're good to go. But then again it's good to see that rebuildable Rear mechs are now coming back to the market place.

[@austinsp00l24]

Really cool.

[@augustgames6502]

I really want this derailleur. If it's not crazy expensive I might buy it. For what it is, and the savings it would bring me in being able to reuse other components, I'd consider it up to like $400

[@lidarman2]

Interesting how gaslit we are with bike stuff that we have to fix our crappy $350 derailleur with a $130 link.

[@RAP4EVERMRC96]

If their derailleur would be electric and compatible with axs hood shifters, I would be sold.

[@woolfel]

I am a heavy sweater and my cables used to break twice a year. Since switching to Di2 and E-tap, I haven't had to limp back home 15 miles. I will never go back to mechanical. Not everyone sweat buckets and corrodes their shifter cables.

[@deadreckoner5276]

They should look into integrating JTek shift mates into these for compatibility.

[@deadreckoner5276]

Finally. Anyone know where these will be made and how much they cost?

[@elononoras1902]

We have a saying (I am in a field of mechatronics and machine design): "Exaggeration is a form of lazyness". It's told as a joke in a situation, then someone goes into tunnel vision and overengineers something :)

[@CristoffelBonorand]

I know it’s about much more than about looks, but this would fit sooo perfectly with my purple Growtacs 😅

[@greennoodle69]

I really like this guy

[@lynxg4641]

Great idea, need so much more of this type of thinking instead of the throw away mentality of most these days. I refuse to pay more than $70 US for a derailleur, but I'd happily pay double, maybe triple that for one that's serviceable/rebuildable. Not people, N.Americans, because honestly no one else the world over gives a flying fvck if it's made in the US, find a high quality manufacturer in the east, pay the extra premium and sell them for a bit more over big derailleur and rely upon the fact that it's all easily repairable/serviceable and also the ability to swap the derailleur between a varied speed range. Why the parts for SRAM, because they suck compared to Shimano, especially in the lower end, friends don't let friends ride GX or lower SRAM crap and use their $240 cassettes vs a $80 Shimano that's a few grams heavier.

[@michaelrieser9928]

I use sram nx on all my hardtail mountain bikes and it’s great. It doesn’t have a 10 tooth sprocket and on the street that can be a situation where you could like to have it. But as soon as I hit the trail it’s a moot point. I’m even going to try the Microshift advent x, it’s inexpensive and if it wears out I’ll buy another one. The shimano 6100 is really good too. If some body wants to pay $1000 for a drive train it seems not a good purchase. And are there that many customers that will purchase these high cost componants?

[@cosineofchaos]

I built up an AXS bike recently since it was the easiest way I saw to reliably hack a mullet drivetrain at the time There is a bunch of neat stuff I'd love to build a new bike with mech gear like this honestly (I do not need new bikes lmao)

[@sashasky717]

deore 5100 user - what is problem?)))

[@jed7939]

yeah, you could probably buy 5 deore derailleurs for the cost of this one

[@michaelpearce6982]

What happened to those hinged bar end do-dads. I'm interested in using them on my mtb race rig

[@ostekuste3646]

I use a Microshift thumb shifter on my Eagle drivetrain and every time anyone tries it they always comment on how much better it shifts. I think a lot of SRAM issues are in the shifter. I hated mine.

[@Fonkemman]

Before I watch this, does it cost half of a Shimano 105 groupset? Like the Growtac Equals.

[@Some-Guy-]

I'll pay US$500 for a repairable, painstakingly engineered cable derailleur before I pay $100 for an electronic derailleur.

[@feedbackzaloop]

After all the years I learned not to trust _any_ derailleur, big or small. Although it's not that bad of a situation on the market as with cranksets, frankly.

[@dronejunglistplatoon]

i subbed cause i swear that caption literally made me LOL!

[@mircozelle]

now i want 8 speed xtr for my current build

[@exothermal.sprocket]

If only gearboxes or gear hubs could be less complex and expensive, because they do away with all the vulnerabilities and maintenance of derailleurs.

[@tubularmonkeymaniac]

💯 if o could throw one on a 90s frame I’d be into it

[@rfwillett2424]

The complexities of hub gears is baked in. The issues are quality materials and tight machining tolerances, both cost.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Correct. Yet, the volume of such things is quite low in the market. Gears and high tolerance parts in other industries are made at mass scale and cost comes down.

[@SianaGearz]

A 5 speed gear hub is only 60€...

[@exothermal.sprocket]

I am referring to a gearbox or gear hub that provides similar or comparable gear range to widely used 2x systems. Rohloff, Shimano Alfine, or Pinion for examples.

[@cosineofchaos]

I wish they offered more colors (but understand that it isn't really practical) I'd get some just to color match with other parts of my bike 😅

[@joachimachtzehnter4772]

You said that electronic shifting is out of the question for you because it doesn't support mixing and matching of different drive train components. This is quite ironic because this kind of compatibility should be easy with an electronic shifting system where the position of the pulley is software or firmware controlled. If manufacturers wanted to, they could offer an electronic derailleur/shifter package that can work with almost any cassette and multiple speeds. In fact, a Chinese company is now offering such a system, supporting cassettes with anywhere between 3 and 14 cogs. You configure each cog's position individually with an app. This is currently in the first generation and reliability is still an open question, but perhaps it will put pressure on Shimano and SRAM to move towards more mix and match compatibility in the future?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Lots of "shoulds" and "ifs". Shimano and SRAM will likely never open up the firmware to be backwards compatible. They'd lose too much money. Even if they did, you'd be stuck in their respective ecosystems and if they don't offer what you want then you're SOL. As per the Wheeltop, by all accounts its a software nightmare to get going.

[@haqitman]

This is great! Can we get them in silver?

[@travischapman6763]

I don’t know many people that have any problems with electronic other than cost. I feel like I’m in a never ending cable adjustment at the derailleur and have been since my ultegra 6700. Just got axs and if I never have to turn a barrel adjuster again, it will be too soon. Not to mention that literally every bike is internal routing which makes home mechanic annoying.

[@Beesno]

Interesting- my experience has been the reverse of this. Barrel adjusters are so easy to adjust (even while riding) that my bikes always shift super reliably. In the Century I did a couple of weeks ago though, the guy running axs couldn't adjust his gears without getting out his phone, fighting the app, and even then didn't have the granularity that a cable-shifted setup has. And that's all indexed- on my friction shifting bikes I only ever double-check the limit screws and the tension on the friction shifter. But I want people to like their bikes, so if electronics make you happy then 🤘 have a great ride.

[@travischapman6763]

@@Beesno I do love this possibility on Friction but for the right bike. Maybe you've got barrel adjust magic or understanding I've never had. And I don't know. Maybe I'll hate electronic. My hope is I never adjust again. I could be super wrong in the end. For what it's worth, I didn't have to adjust my advent x for an entire season.

[@totalglitch]

The issue is frames are going wireless. I got a cc santa cruz frame i had no choise but to go wireless. I hate that step and wish i could have stuck with wired. This looks like a great product

[@hippiebits2071]

That won’t become a widespread issue if the masses don’t allow themselves to be railroaded into buying into it. I wasn’t aware any of the larger companies were even doing that already.

[@matthewtaylor4956]

Just built a FS mountain bike a year ago and already SMASHED an XT derailleur in 6 months.. Build some Shimano stuff and im IN....

[@burningatthetrailhead]

It literally looks like a fancy old sram derailleur. What's the pull ratio?

[@MikeMassey-fi5of]

Will this make Sram shift as well as Shimano?

[@GHinWI]

@20:20…he can make all the self-soothing justification he wants, but there’s zero chance I’d bother with some off-brand derailleur if it was made in Asia. If it’s made in US, then yes, I actually would go out of my way to buy one or several. Otherwise, X01 works fantastic. For me, the next reason to look at something beyond X01 is when a MTB system is developed that separates the two pulleys-the shift pulley has to be back by the cassette, but the tension pulley should be tucked up under the BB. This would largely eliminate the risk of damage due to low-hanging derailleur.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Would you be willing to put your money where your mouth is and pay for a US made derailleur is the real question 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@feedbackzaloop]

So you rather have an "on-brand" part made in Asia. OK, noted.

[@GHinWI]

@@PathLessPedaledTV: yes, and I do in virtually every place possible, but I also know that I’m unusual. My point is if it’s just made in Asia with everything else, I’d rather just have a good quality SRAM or Shimano, because those work great (so long as you stay away from the cheapies).

[@GHinWI]

@@feedbackzaloop: No, I’d rather pay the premium for domestic made, but if it’s coming from Asia anyway, I’ll just go big-brand.

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@GHinWI that's what I'm saying: big brand, made in Asia. Although totally agree with the idea that brand/developer/registration site should coincide with manufacturing: I buy from somebody the part, not the idea and instructions to 3rd party. Too fed up with "Italian cars made in Hungary, belonging to Netherlands holding" shenanigans. One can argue it's all EU anyway, I say taking cards of one pocket and putting them into another of the very same jacket is basic cheating.

[@MikeMassey-fi5of]

My wife has arthritis in her hands and electronic shifting is MUCH easier for her, especially the front

[@hippiebits2071]

Very valid point I hadn’t considered even though I really struggle with the front as well due to weakness.

[@oplkfdhgk]

11-52 casette support would be nice on gravel bike.

[@ShinyUmbreon765]

Just run a 22-32-42 triple. An 11-36 gets you that range at a reasonable price.

[@oplkfdhgk]

@@ShinyUmbreon765 i don't want to. I like my narrow wide chainring.

[@feedbackzaloop]

get Sensah then.

[@oplkfdhgk]

​@@feedbackzaloopi would but i don't think they work with the shfters that i use. I use micronew shifters.

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@oplkfdhgk Sensahs are normally Sram compatible but have a Shimano lineup. Micronew must have Shimano pull ratio, right? Can't be sure about exact models and number of gears, but worth checking out

[@davidpayne8413]

Would aluminium jockey wheels be another point of chain wear?

[@patdu2005]

Would be nice toi have kits for SRAM AXS road!

[@TC-hl1ws]

Please ask Madrone to develop a rear shifter that has adjustable throw for each gear. Therefor a slightly bent rear derailleur can be adjusted to shift as well as a new derailleur. I have an Archer rear electronic shifter that has this ability and it works very well but I wish there was a mechanical shifter that had this adjustable pitch ability.

[@JohnDir-xw3hf]

But it's impossible...

[@TC-hl1ws]

@@JohnDir-xw3hf As an engineer I can tell you it's not impossible to make a mechanical shifter with adjustable engagement paws. It's a complex assignment and would be expensive to produce with a low consumer demand. That's why it doesn't exist already but I sure would like to have such a mechanical shifter. I'll continue using my Archer electronic shifter and hope one day such a product comes to market but I'm not holding my breath.

[@feedbackzaloop]

That's what electronic gears are for. And it is already implemented. Mechanically though, it is impossible as indexing is hardwired in the shifter ratchet. At max you can skew the whole range, not individually. Although for most cases it should suffice. Either moving cable attachment point on the derailleur or having cable spool in the shifter spiraling and adjust the section used.

[@TC-hl1ws]

@@feedbackzaloop Can one make gear by gear micro adjustments, effectively varying the throw distance, with electric Sram and Shimano like you can with Archer? It's difficult but not impossible to replace the solid cast shifting ratchet with an adjustable ratchet.

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@TC-hl1ws the f is an "adjustable ratchet"? That would be the stack of individual plates with as many dials as are the gears, protruding somewhere. Doable, but we are entering mechanical watch territory. You _really_ better get a spare derailleur hanger then

[@milkman2591]

Dawg I’m running an 8$ Ali chainring and can’t tell the difference between that and the 70$ wolf tooth

[@TESTA-CC]

Credit madrone 🤙🤙

[@davemcbeard]

I don't get it, the $50 XT kit you used to buy didn't shift as well as the Deore kit does now. I have zero understanding for spending big money on derailleurs which hang off your bike waiting to get smashed.

[@user-mm9hv2oj8d]

The debate between US-built and Chinese (or far East, he uses that term that could mean a region but it is work around for not saying China) products isn’t primarily about perceived quality; both can produce high-quality items when contracted to do so. However, if you’re not targeting a mass market, US-built products can still drive some sales. People often choose American-made for reasons beyond just cost. For instance, while a product like the M5100 may be available for $35 on eBay, consumers might be willing to pay ten times that amount if you provide compelling reasons to do so. The base unit is going to be boutique priced.

[@mechanicaldavid4827]

Far East also _includes_ significant manufacturing supply via Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, and Malaysia.

[@user-mm9hv2oj8d]

@@mechanicaldavid4827 Of course it does. If it was anything but China he would have said The country. People who manufacture in China use the term far east. People who manufacture in Japan use JAPAN. Its just slick talk

[@James-lh1fd]

Another aspect of manufacturing in China, especially as a smaller company is IP theft. If the factory likes your design and don't fear your legal team, they will just keep making that part beyond your ordered numbers.

[@MrSzwarz]

Still the mechanical shifting is more reliable, lasting and independent from any outsise factor (battery, electronic, soft etc) Also i some case is faster than electronic eg mechanical Campagnolo is faster, and you can buy every sinle part, to replace or... change from 10, 11 to 12 speed without much problem.

[@randycallow3736]

I like the video, fortunately or unfortunately I agree with lots of it. I weigh 225 pounds use my road bike for all applications. Dirt road, misty, little wet, climbing, sprinting work like 100% intervals and club racing. I use mechanical Shimano Ultegra 11 speed, usually swap all at once. So chain, cassette and every other swap new jockey wheels as needed. I use brand name chains and have not had any issues, I do cables every year or so and do housing as needed..I typically use Squirt but I don't see any benefits to skinny chain and intolerant shifting, ain't broke won't fix it..I have never had battery issues or now talk about being able to foul Sram wireless with cell phone..or other device.. no thanks.

[@mramazingtroy]

If he can make Campag Ekar easier to set up and stay set-up sign me up.

[@joshuarebennack68]

I'm looking forward for Madrone's derailleur. I would also like them to make shifters also. Madone - please don't make the derailleur in China. East/Southern Asian country, yes. China, no. I'll pay extra not to have it made in China. The long-term solution on this issue is completely open-source parts. Have the individual parts - spec, shape, tolerances - open to anyone to make without patents, etc. If all the sudden anyone can make parts for a system, that means the ability to (overcharge) for a similar item basically dies. Why charge $600 for a cassette if a similar cassette is open-source?

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Like Ingrid, aenomaly constructs, hope, these will probably be ripped off and sold on Ali, pls be careful guys always makes subtles improvements 😏

[@javiersmith2216]

That is awesome. Rare good news from the bike industry. I wish someone would establish a trade association that wrote down specs for a 9,10 or 11 speed groups set and than market the specs. Imagine if we had universal bike specs. Small manufacturers could jump in and out of the market easily and compete against the bigger guns. I also wouldn't have to worry about finding parts for my bike 2 or 10 years down the road. It would be an effective way to counteract the marketing power of pro sponsorship. I don't even think it would take a lot of money. I would bet if someone did they would be pleasantly surprised at how successful this marketing would be. The alternative is new bikes w abs disk brakes; then dual sided abs disk brakes and then wireless abs dual sided disk brakes. The marketing gimmicks will be never ending and we will be forced to upgrade every few years to appease the bike gods.

[@warwicksworkshop9511]

Aaron, have you actually done the sums? Because there's a reason every single CNC'd derailleur in the history of the derailleur has failed.

[@bennettturk3206]

$900 cassettes are for mid life crisis having dentists.

[@killjoy8914]

How many years does a Derailleur last ? Say your commuting 100 miles a week multi terrain (lots of shifting) .

[@feedbackzaloop]

Depends on how often do you crash and fall on the derailleur side. Sometimes it takes the first corner 100m far from home.

[@mechanicaldavid4827]

It's not the shifting that ruins a derailleur - it's poor maintenance (which includes inspection, adjustment and keeping the chain and pulleys working well together). Going with electronic servos doesn't eliminate pulley wear, chain build-up and bent hangers.

[@davidchase3269]

60 miles/week on road year-round near Boston. The tension pulley on my IGH looks really, really sad, but that is an easy part to replace.

[@escgoogle3865]

Interesting question: ~120k lifetime time miles HILLY commuting, training or touring. I have worn out 4 mid grade derailleurs 2 STX-rc, 2007 mirage, 2012 deore and a suntour accushift thing which just went to garbage after one year.

[@wrwicky]

I’m a little frustrated by the conversation that bikes are expensive. There are expensive bikes. But every major brand sells more than one good bike around $600 USD. That is as low as it ever was in constant year dollars, AFAIK. Drop bar bikes are more, but they generally have been.

[@rrregis]

Can you link one such example?

[@wrwicky]

@@rrregis Trek, the highest service/cost brand sells the FX1 disc, Verve1, and Marlin5 for about $599 USD in 2024, worth about $330 USD in 2000. A 2000 Trek 7500 hybrid which performs poorer than those current bikes listed for….$599 (year 2000) USD. All major brands have similar commuters, at similar price and performance. In general, the bikes perform better, for fewer constant year dollars. most bikes actually sold are not more expensive in constant year money. A current entry carbon road bike would ride circles around an old Superbike for less CY money

[@daneboat9950]

Very interested in purchasing US machined and manufactured silver derailleurs. Not foreign machined and manufactured

[@CobwobblersBikes]

Meh, interesting but I'll stick to Single Speed, saves a lot of stress or 3 speed Sturmey Archer for when I want some range...

[@nickyburnell]

Paul manufacture USA. China? Really? There is a moral issue or ten incase you missed them?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Paul doesn't make a derailleur. They attempted one decades ago and made only 28 of them.

[@m5louks1]

Honestly, I have loved this channel for a long, long time. But, this pooh-poohing on the bike industry doesn't sit super well with me. I understand not being interested in the SRAM ecosystem, but I think its important to remember we are all in this together. And, the fact of the matter is, the SRAM ecosystem going the way it has, is what has opened the door for this interesting company. We all benefit from the industry moving forward, even if you don't like where team red and blue are taking it.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I’m sorry I reject that premise. I don’t think rolling over and playing along with more proprietary non compatible and ever more expensive parts is good for anyone except for SRAM. Why support a company that makes trash parts like blips with non-rechargable/changeable batteries that are designed to be thrown away? or power meters integrated with the chainrings (a wear item) so that once the rings wear out you have to replace everything?

[@greennoodle69]

Sounds like you have Stockholm syndrome!

[@kenmunozatmmrrailroad6853]

"And then I'm 'like', and then you're 'like', and then I'm 'like'... I'm out.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

good riddance.

[@kenmunozatmmrrailroad6853]

@@PathLessPedaledTV God forbid the audience require complete and/or coherent sentence structure; the more the bar is lowered, the lower the bar gets.

[@drujenssen5444]

You must be fun at parties……

[@kenmunozatmmrrailroad6853]

@@drujenssen5444 Avoided like the plague- boredom.

[@drujenssen5444]

@@kenmunozatmmrrailroad6853 I’d be willing to bet people say the same thing about you.