The Smash Bros Hype Paradox

[@ThisAintGood.]

This dude has gone from a Smashtuber to Socrates in a very short amount of time

[@flyinggyrados4591]

and I love it

[@RushWheeler]

Why not be both?

[@defnotnaruto222]

So we should smash socrates?

[@Estfireemblem]

@@defnotnaruto222 yes

[@discat907]

Hoprates

[@SonicTheCutehog]

You can even apply this to highly requested characters. Characters like Banjo and Sora were highly requested in Smash and gained a lot of hype from their reveals, but were instantly labeled as "lame" when they released and nobody uses them.

[@dysr]

I think this could just be bias at play. It's a combination of people being much more likely to be vocal and gain traction with wanting something rather than appreciating something that is there, as well as there being no new Smash content for the foreseeable future. You're much less likely to hear about someone just appreciating something that already exists, just because of how social media tends to push for more interaction than just agreement and indifference. Besides, Sora and Banjo do get quite a lot of online play, at least according to the data a quick google search pulled up. They're just not very popular in tournaments because Ultimate is decently well balanced with a very large cast, so even a lot of good characters don't have much high-level representation (like Sora), not to mention a lower tier like Banjo.

[@ArynBacklogDragon]

yeah, but then we get players like ToriGuri and Kameme who optimized their combos in a way you don't see people do, yet nobody mentions them.

[@splish_2]

People def use Sora, top level you don’t see as much bc they dont travel much for events and still the newest to the meta but anything below that they are everywhere and Sora is really good. Banjo on the otherhand is rare anywhere you go and is an actual mid character.

[@Barsee23]

because those were beloved + well liked characters from their franchise, but the gameplay of how they played in ssbu just just felt lame/campy so they ended up not liking them

[@vitaming582]

I think the other side of that is that other DLC characters got really broken things, easy shield breaks, guaranteed 0 to death combos, comeback mechanics and such. Banjo and Sora both have a few good things, but they don't have anything ridiculous like Mythra's frame data or Hero's Hocus Pocus.

[@DrDubMemes]

The end of the video really makes it clear to me that the hype is not something that is intrinsic to a character or move. It’s just an emotion that you feel, which is why it’s so subjective. I would argue there is still a difference between hype and “fake hype”. Hype is when you feel the emotions of something that is hype, and “fake hype” is when you don’t feel that way but still say you do because of what other people say.

[@John-nk3ej]

theres no hype in brawl 3. if you want hype play melee

[@marzipancutter8144]

I feel like the essence of hype context is how a player deals with risk. The bigger risk you take, the more hype it will be if it pans out. That's also why the observer plays such a big role in what is considered hype, because they need the skills necessary to realize the risk associated with what just happened. That's why Captain falcons Combo string into knee is fake hype. Landing the knee raw can be hype because its stubby range gets beaten out by an aggressive play, but because people simplify this to mean knee = hype, if they consider fishing for grabs to land a true combo into knee hype that is fake hype because there's no actual risk involved. You could take "fake hype" to mean "hype by association". If a thing that is considered hype is used in a context where all the underlying reasons for that original consideration are missing.

[@John-nk3ej]

@@marzipancutter8144 play melee if you want to learn what hype is little boy

[@alexaurorus9767]

I really love Hop’s “wouldn’t it be nice if we treated each other and the things we love with nuance” videos

[@Jassifrickanation]

"All hype is fake hype," is exactly how I feel about it. Some people love down-throw combos. Others love ledge traps. Some like neutral. Most people just trying to play the game.

[@MstrKipper]

I actually love the Hopcat video essays, he always does such a great job with them and they're so entertaining

[@beardalaxy]

i've been watching smash bros for almost ten years now and i'm still not ever tired of seeing a sick captain falcon combo. dude just looks so cool doing whatever he does.

[@HDGamerofficial]

All he wants to do is for us to show him our moves, we should give him what he wants cuz that man ain’t getting a game any time soon 😢

[@neurobadger2291]

I agree, other characters get their moments of glory but the Cap is eternal. Every time I watch a falcon video, that shit still always gets me hyped.

[@Bob__Yosh]

Ngl, more smash video essays would be hype.

[@Ze_Carrot]

I love the new video essay style Peter just does it great

[@pokemaster2352]

Personally I have been really enjoying the more analysis videos such as this one the doc one and then why the heavies are bad, you've gone from just playing smash to an analysis point of content. I really hope you make more of these. Have a great day to everyone!

[@Rangaisia]

The dictionary definition of hype is certainly helpful to keep in mind as hype is the central part of how game companies market their games. This extends to even the game itself, as the developers put their thumbs on the scale with mechanics deliberately aimed to make "hype" moments (comeback mechanics are most obvious example), which get shared in social media, and become free marketing for the game. However, while hype is subjective, like certain other subjective valuations hype is affected by rarity. Often "hype" moments are such because they're rare feats of exceptional skill and strategy. If there's a big comeback in one match out of ten, that's hype - if there's a big comeback every second match, that's "winning by losing". It's no surprise that overtuned comeback mechanics are some of the most common complaints about modern fighting games. Trying to force "hype" moments into existence too hard can devalue them, especially if they're perceived to be more a result of overtuned mechanics than organic skill, thus "fake hype". There is certain art of making hype feel organic and player driven.

[@Matpit18]

Every character in Smash may be fake hype, but I’ll tell you what’s NOT fake hype though! And that’s these videos! Keep it up, Hop! These video essays are great!

[@Bluebatstar]

When Steve first came out, I thought he was the hypest character in the game, and I still feel like the character's moveset is the perfect for clever and really exciting moments. Of course, the issue is playing really campy with him is the main strat so almost everone just plays that way, and that's very boring. I think the issue is about the fact that because everyone (rightly so) hates Steve's campiness, it completely overshadows how cool the character can be in the right hands because 1: It's far rarer since it's less optimal, and 2: People are now predisposed to say Steve is lame. I think that latter one is particularly an issue in Smash, where predisposed notions of the characters are more important to what people say is hype then what the character's actually doing, but I'm not confident enough in that statement to state it fully. I will say that I don't think Steve's a hype character overall since his toolkit makes playing campy the best stratagy, so character design does play a big part, but not the only part. Lastly, I feel there's a disconnect in all FGs about what's hype and what's hard. Zoning is a very difficult skill, but since it can be very boring to watch people call it less hype then running at your face until you land a hit, which while at high level is a very difficult playstyle, even if there isn't that much thought into it people call it hyper then a stronger zoner player. Fantastic video, I'm glad someone covered this topic! You make some really good points, and I agree with pretty much everything. The Context argument is incredibly important and I'm glad you brought it up! I'm also guilty of forgetting that sometimes...

[@jediofhyrule1218]

I think a lot of this can apply to Sonic too! His optimal strategy is to camp and spindash at people, but Sonic combos can actually be so cool to see.

[@XTempestBuster]

This is SO true. Characters like sonic and megaman, who i find can be PEAK hype, get a bad name because they play optimally. A megaman can definitely cook you instead of projectile camping, and a sonic can 100% run around and hit you before you can react

[@CojonesMuchoGrande]

​@@jediofhyrule1218Sonic had a bad character design, 2 Spin dashes that look the same, a neutral B that looks similar with the same noise. His A Buttons are just normal punches and Kicks. Its basically a Dull Movepool. His Combos are cool and stuff, but 90% of them start with Spin Dash.

[@ThisAintGood.]

@@CojonesMuchoGrande I can excuse Sonic cause ever since Min Min came out, he at least looks like he has a moveset in comparison

[@deadheat1635]

Theoretically, Steve is the hypest character in the game because his limit is literally the players imagination.

[@HeavyWalrus2]

I used to call Captain Falcon “fake hype” as well, while also hating everything about him. Recently I’ve learned that that issue is less with Falcon himself and more so that the people who adore him, more often then not will complain and call HALF THE FUCKING CAST “lame” and groan when their opponent just wants to play the character they love, while they fish for the same combos every game.

[@elitenano]

Again. Absolutely love these documentary style videos. They must take a long time to do with all the editing, writing and recording but I just wanted to say that I appreciate the direction you are taking the channel in. Very hopeful that they start to really pop off soon because you deserve it, keep it up Hopwell Catthew

[@milesredgate4596]

Been enjoying these essay style videos lately. And hopcat is way better at them than I would have expected.

[@18rocksthegames78]

I haven’t played this game since 2020 nice to see there’s still a, well, hype community

[@DVLIsaac]

This style of content is great, also the editing is on point, I'm really enjoying the video essays

[@grantcroshaw5789]

HopCat, I absolutely loved the video! Because of course "hype" and "fake hype" are subjective, I loved that you introduced different ways of thinking about the terms. I wanted to add one to the mix that you only partially touched on just to see if anyone else feels similarly about what is "hype." Adding to the definitions in the video, one way I would define hype is the idea of risk vs. reward. For me, no matter what character or what move is being used, if a string or a read in smash is connected to significant risk to the player executing it, I typically see it as "hype." Very high risk moves such as Rest, Skewer, Luigi Up B, Bowser Down B, etc. are a good example of this to me, because if not executed perfectly, your opponent has a free opportunity for a hard punish. This same mentality in my mind applies to taking the more "risky" alternative when given a choice in smash, such as edgeguarding over ledge trapping, approaching/playing "aggro" over zoning/playing "safe", custom strings over perfect "combos", and going for a risky read option even when overextending. I like to think about hype this way because of the risk. If you go for the flashy, non-optimal, risky option, you are choosing (in my mind) to play "cool" over playing "well." And to me, that is "hype."

[@vGuilte]

I love these new hop cat videos where he just talks abt differnent aspects of the game/community and explains each side. Keep it up man

[@revengeoftheshreks1860]

Every smash player should watch this so I don’t have to hear every character in the game get called lame anymore

[@LuisFelipe-th1lk]

So, we can all agree that the Gannon that 3 stocked Peter’s, Jordan’s and Jackson’s Marth was hype af.

[@shoe43]

i genuinely really enjoy this style of content, especially when applied to stuff like smash bros - it’s honestly quite interesting. keep it up hop!

[@segagamerxx6959]

I never knew I needed a smash video essay by hopcat but now I need more. Keep up the great work!

[@astercat49]

So many characters can be “hype” that it really depends on the player and their playstyle. Characters like Link and Samus can be extremely boring if they just camp the entire match, but with clever and aggressive gameplay, they can be some of the most enjoyable to watch characters in the game. I knew a guy whose Mega Man was so sick that playing against him was genuinely some of the most enjoyable Smash gameplay I’ve ever experienced.

[@etisreal9386]

Take a shot every-time Hopcat says hype

[@StrayJello]

The little clap after "you make the difference" was freaking hilarious lmao

[@matthiashopkins7502]

the more hopcat makes videos the more im convinced hopcat is secretly majoring in english

[@TheAmazingchapin]

Why is this such a comprehensive analysis hopcat wtf I love btw dont stop

[@joshbarcomb7214]

The Knight of Basic college humor sketch I think really sums up contrarians well.

[@Trevor-kc6zv]

Yeah, I’d be lying if I didn’t say there’s more hype Samuses than DKs online since all online DKs play the same, and Samuses play so uniquely when they aren’t caught up in a bit of camping

[@Riko_Hawksband]

Hi Hopcat. I enjoy this type of video. Keep up the great work. Thats it, have a good day (or night, idk what time it is in Australia) :D

[@HopCatSmash]

Thanks! Will do! It's midnight btw

[@Stararrows]

2:38 He did Poppt1's fox infinite!!!

[@D_1_O]

Absolutely love the part about finding characters you appreciate hype. The first professional player I ever started watching was ESAM, and I still find him incredibly fun to watch because I tried to main Pikachu and found that they're a really difficult character (at least to someone of my rather low skill level). Now, I main Kazuya and Terry, the former being considered by many to be extremely lame. Hell, some people even say Terry is lame. But watching someone like Riddles play them so perfectly, getting confirms like neutral air into EWGF or up tilt to Power Geyser, is one of the most enjoyable things to watch. It's fun because it gives me ideas for how to improve my own gameplay, while also showing me a glimpse of how good it's possible to get with a character, even if I could never get there myself.

[@peanutinc.7670]

I remember one time, I was playing as Mii Swordfighter against an extremely oppressive Pichu, who was known to be a bit of a trash talker. I didn't win, but to my surprise, people were cheering me on in the chat. Normally I catch a lot of flak for playing Swordfighter, but they all thought I was being super hype. I probably wasn't being much more "sick" than usual, but they had someone they wanted taken down a peg, so I got a lot of praise. The story going on in the background is sometimes more important than the things happening on screen in the moment.

[@Iso_SSB]

I expect to see a lot of minmin, samus, sonic and olimar in this video

[@asuramaru8180]

I love how he talks about duck hunt and shows tweek losing to it, considering what happened last weekend at GOML lol

[@miimiiandco]

I think the reason why Rushdown is seen as so "hype", while Zoners are reviled, is the percieved risk. Rushdown have to get close to the enemy, which gives way more perceived risk than a Zoner trying to *minimize* risk by keeping the enemy at bay.

[@TR_Emp]

That pichu down b spike by void was really hype. If it didnt work he wouldve died since he was so close to the blastzone and im pretty sure he didnt jump. Such a cool way to win.

[@w4ywardlucky]

Before I watch the video allow me to explain. It’s hype when I do it lame when I get hit by it. The only exception is yoshi who is always lame and Gannon who is always hype. They balance eachother out

[@thesuntitan]

Like you said, context is everything. As a Falcon player, I have to agree that the average Falcon can pretty quickly become lame to fight and/or watch. After all, he just runs at you with burst options and uAir strings, you’re barely gonna see much more outside of top level, and he’s especially obnoxious online where it’s harder to react to stupid stuff like random Falcon Kicks. But watching Jogibu defeat Miya in what’s considered an impossible MU? Now that’s certified hype, but it has nothing to do with any of the character’s inherent qualities, it’s more about the fact that one of the two players has to repeatedly navigate a number of skewed risk-reward situations to come out on top. And that’s always cool to see in a fighting game.

[@robastergaming6074]

0:50 they really thought that mii brawler couldn't be hype.

[@randomeo1957]

The direction youre taking with your channel is great. Youre funny as well. Make sure you think about what you want as well though. Keep it up

[@beardalaxy]

when i hear the phrase "hype megaman" i just think of kameme. man plays megaman in smash like he's playing against a boss in an actual megaman game. really fun to watch.

[@danielingalls8980]

Dr. Mario is super hype. I started co-maining him along with Young Link. He forces you to play to what your opponent is doing, and also makes you try really hard for recoveries. You can tell when people rage quit after being K.O.ed by Dr. Mario. Truly satisfying if you can play him well enough.

[@hyphen8d725]

The fox 0-D at 2:36 killed me :skull:

[@ringss_]

The Duck Hunt section is very fitting, considering Tweek's Diddy just lost to BIGDUCKHUNTFAN7000

[@UltraSTH]

HopCat uploads are always hype Yes, I know the door is that way, I’ll be heading out-

[@Alexander050101]

I love the NakeyJakey style video essays but with smash related content, was hoping to see Peter sitting on a yoga ball 😤

[@JLawL]

I have a replay of a Megaman 0-death'ing me in a 13 second true combo of lemon and leaf hell at about 13.1 million NA. I found the one hype Megaman and I don't ever want to find him again.

[@pretzelgod8972]

If I ever get into comp Smash, I assure you I will provide the hypest Mega Man ever recorded

[@pokithanos]

Love the fox infinite gameplay in the background

[@jet4807]

These video essays are so good; cant wait to see more!

[@dabiskitt]

I think a character is “Fake Hype” if they’re too predictable or too easy. People say falcon is fake hype because his combos and playstyle are too predictable. Same with kazuya. Mythra isn’t considered hype because her combos are wayyyy too easy to pull off. She’s a little too good. People make the same argument about fox too, with all of his moves being incredibly good and safe. I think one reason why ganon is almost universally considered hype is because he has neither of these qualities. He can make big flashy plays, but also isn’t guaranteed combos so his playstyle relies more on reads which is inherently less predictable. On top of that, he is awful, and only can be played well if the player is extremely extremely skilled. That’s why most people consider him very hype.

[@danny18894]

Thanks Hopcat , I appreciate the video essay , I'll make sure to determine what's hype in my own way.

[@GumshoeClassic]

It's always interesting to see the push and pull between developers and the playerbase when it comes to things being hype or exiting. To me, and I'd wager to many other people, exitement comes, at least in big parts, from risk. But risk stands out as the antithesis of what is competitively desirable. Consistency is king, that's why swingy characters with a skewed matchup chart are often considered to be in lower tiers. The things you want people to see on the big screen are at risk of not being used there, and getting them to be used at higher level can diminish the excitement. Similarly, allowing newcomers to use these things usually also entails making them more consistent and reliable... and thereby potentially less hype. Autocombos for example.

[@Liam-dt4nm]

I'm loving these video essay type videos

[@otaviopeluciasvideo7622]

I saw the thumbnail and I thought it was a SSF 2.

[@RedBloodAura]

Come on Hopcat, everyone knows its only hype if the cheer sound effect happens in the background🙄

[@ErrantForay]

I always like the unga bunga vibes that happen in most underdog videos but this thoughtful style is also very enjoyable

[@Ab14533]

Hopwell has become a leader of smash seminars

[@Maki_Maki2k]

I think as a collective group we can all agree good Dr Mario’s are the most hype thing ever

[@sharpless2953]

great video! Kameme's mega man is incredibly hype and in the smash 4 days he had some crazy metal blade footstool combos

[@yassin528]

For me I always deem things hype of they are high risk and high reward plays that pay off. A suicide dair will always be hype to me for instance because you look like an idiot when it doesn’t work for instance. I liked the context aspect that you mentioned but it’s also true that some characters are more designed to be „hype“ than others.

[@Strawb_milk5]

I really enjoy this direction of videos. I think they are fun and entertaining.

[@Daffodyl3]

Yeah turns out I needed Hop to do video essays and I didn't know it

[@Gaudimann]

Very informative there! Everybody can be hype in the right hands!^^ (I just ignore the Daisy one down there xD)

[@MrHockeyboy2000]

Thumbnail goes crazy btw

[@GoldDragon20]

THANK YOU. Someone had to do this. There were only a few people that could really pull it off, and this works really well.

[@tommytherunner]

I'll make it simple: Are you playing Ganondorf? That's hype. Anyone else, fake hype.

[@windowstechsupport3562]

Nice thumbnail, already know this one is gonna be a banger again

[@DiegoG2004]

I was not expecting to learn stuff along with the general HopCat entertainment. Neato.

[@jasomega2446]

0:12 Thank you 3:23 3:18 3:29 3:49 3:56 4:04 So, doing Something that has never been done before? 4:17 4:38 4:55 Understandable 5:19 5:30 6:14 7:06 7:59

[@jasomega2446]

Thank you for this video. It actually helped out.

[@germanpogostick]

i play duck hunt, feel free to stop reading here. i remember playing friendlies and going link, (i was that one link from your birthday btw hopcat, fun games again) and hit a combo that was i think forward throw into detonate into up air, and i got a bit of a pop off from 2 people behind me. the thing was, i didnt think that combo was particularly interesting, as duck hunt does that stuff all the time. it really put into perspective for me the notion that, with an unbelievable amount of characters in the game, it becomes an unreasonable task to assume that someone will have an in depth knowledge of every character, every game plan, or as you put it, even something as simple as neutral. I think can is the sickest thing in the game, and completely get why someone would call it lame. this perspective shifts hype from an opinion formed where everyone is looking at the same game, to an opinion formed where people are looking at the same game from vastly different angles. good video man, thanks for giving me a place to articulate my thoughts

[@barbwyer5322]

i really enjoy youre ted talks! you can tell you had to give and watch lots of presentations in uni

[@moondragon2502]

Love that kind of video done by you. Keep up the good stuff Hopcat !

[@roxas8999]

Hop touched on a point that l think is important: hype can become lame if you are too exposed to it. If all you ever eat is chocolate, you won't realize how good it is because that's all you know, so it becomes routine, but for the rest of us, chocolate is (generally) really enjoyable when we get it. That doesn't mean it's not hype, you've just been desensitized to it.

[@BBB-pe3ip]

Hype as an adjective means "exciting, excellent, or cool"

[@shakeski1802]

i think hopcats favourite word is "contrarian"

[@thekidunknown97]

This actually a great conversation topic. Especially in fighting games. If any of you have seen grapplers, most people hate them because its lame to get grabbed twice due to guessing wrong and dying. But myself and plenty of grappler players love that explosive damage. Just check out Potemkin or Zangief plays and you will see what i mean.

[@matthewdovidas4213]

Leave it to HopCat to talk about farming engagement as a downside in the video to just do it himself. Well done lad

[@snper1492]

really dope editing on this one, I haven't seen a video with this kind of editing before

[@theshadowspider97]

Ok, I seriously need an explanation of 7:09. Nairo clearly let go of shield within the 5 frame parry window and got killed. How the fuck did he not get a parry?!

[@purple_roy2190]

6:03 I LOVE WATCHING CHARACTERS THAT RELY ON NEUTRAL TO WIN!! IT IS SO HYPE WATCHING PALUTENA LUCINA WOLF CLOUD ROY ETC

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Wouldn't put Roy in the same category. Way too much kill power for that.

[@0PercentImagination]

If you've ever heard of the Instant Attack mod (and by extension Vishera's cpu tourneys) the idea of what was hype was very split among the viewers, some appreciated when otherwise lame characters like G&W or Ness go ballistic with their whole kit (instant G&W cpu basically chooses what hammer input he wants lol) whilst there were some that just really badly wanted to see Cloud vs Sephiroth all the time despite Cloud being a huge side B spammer. Then there were some that were just funny to watch and root for.

[@infernoleopard3524]

The problem with “fake hype” characters like falcon and Ganon is that they are so universally considered hype that pretty much anything they do you’ve seen before “oh true combo into knee” seen before “spike with a down air” seen before “warlock/falcon punch connects” seen before while other combo characters are more fresh in a way then falcon/Ganon’s predictable hype

[@TheFullPackage]

Falcon and Ganon aren't hype because of their standard combos are, just like every other character.

[@lordmango6060]

First video I've seen of yours! I really like your thoughts and delivery man. You earned a sub

[@Capin91]

Dude actually broke it down in under ten minutes

[@Joltz9]

I am a fan of your essay type videos (:

[@WhyYouWahYoo]

Like 80% of the casual and mid level appeal of Fighting games is the concept of hitting buttons and having your character do cool things. What defines cool is the part we argue about, which is so dumb. That would be like arguing which flavor of ice cream is objectively the most cold. It’s ICE CREAM bro. The flavor’s not what makes it cold

[@connergoldsborough4093]

Such a good explanation of this concept love to see it

[@B.27y]

PT, Leos Joker and ZSS are always Hype

[@JAMllostthegame]

imo the problem with defining words, especially on the Internet and social media in general, is the greater collective's refusal to add nuance or expound upon what they believe. And with what you've said about context, people assume that there is a one-size-fits-all definition of the word, but there clearly isn't. So, people end up arguing their own definition and in several cases more than one can be correct. At that point it becomes and argument over semantics and opinion.

[@plabcentral630]

I start saying shit like “spantaculous” “fromtumptious” and “qualfrinction” just so I’m not spouting the same thing over and over.

[@dspac1760]

The true meaning of hype was the fox infinite in the background

[@krangeld6404]

HopCat really dropped the mic with this one.

[@zoroarkeon]

for the duck hunt v bayo example. its not that duck hunt is hype, its that watching bayo lose in any capacity is hype

[@sirbergles]

Hey HopCat! I completely agree with the points you've made in this video. I like what you said about Ganondorf. Those who don't like the character think the hype is overrated vs those who enjoy the gameplay. I just saw a clip from a friend of mine who has been running a series on his channel of him playing Ganondorf everyday until a famous KZbinr notices him. His latest episode #162 ends in a hype way in my opinion, but my opinion is based on my appreciation for the character. This is a great video Hop! Thanks for your content!

[@pixlyJolt]

I fr thought this was another Smashtuber & thought “Hype & lame? Sounds like an Underdogs reference”. And then I heard Peter lol

[@azuremoon4372]

the fox infinite in the background lol