The Smash Ultimate LumiRank Top 10 REALLY Pissed Me Off - Smash Saturday

[@EagleFly360]

The first half of last year (2024.1) Zomba did win genesis. Should he have be top 10 based of that win?

[@jamesgraydon556]

i think where you differ from the lumirank team is that they care way more about who you can beat more than what you can win, in which case i am inclined to agree with them. its very possible to get a really good bracket and not have to fight anyone who is super good and get a really high placement at a major, but you cant just get lucky and beat top players in the same way. take supernova for example. even though spargo won that tournament i think it affected his ranking less than it affected sonix's ranking despite sonix getting 2nd. Spargo managed to win while beating 1 top 5 player and 5 top 30 players, but sonix got 2nd beating 6 top 10 players and 2 other top 20 players, which is MONUMENTALLY more impressive of a run in my eyes

[@retroreviews_]

I do agree that a huge run where you beat top player after top player is more impressive overall than an easier bracket for a player. I still think the win in an open bracket tourney should have been valued more than it was, and I still don't understand Light being 4 somehow, but Sonix's run at Supernova was pretty insane.

[@craigmoon2121]

I think they did a good job on the LumiRank top 10. Sonix definitely deserves top 5, he feels like he could win every single tournament that he attends. I agree about your points on invitationals and Light though. Also Hurt def feels like he should've been a top 10 player. Overall, I don't mind the ranking at all though.

[@mikeisfine]

I'm just a casual player, but I enjoy watching smash, so I'm not trying to be a smartass here, but what really is the difference between a P tier and and S tier tournament? Like the amount of people that join?

[@retroreviews_]

It's a combo of the amount of people and the quality of the opponents, or how many are ranked in the top 50 or so. P tier has a specific number that needs to be reached to qualify. I don't know the specifics of the criteria, but I think that's the overall qualities. Great question, thanks for asking! 😁

[@gwen_mikufan1-sc1yj]

I think a lot of the reason mkleo was so high was because of the 4-1 against sparg0

[@confessioncritic]

I think it’s all very close but it may just comes down to bracket matchups

[@retrotwo28]

It is what it is, but ultimately the ranking is arbitrary. The best players are gonna win the tournaments regardless of where they are ranked. Sonix thinks he should be higher? Now is his chance to prove it.

[@KinSmashClub]

- Acola > Raru is very reasonable, its not because of the 2nd places at P tiers (that did influence it a bit im sure) but the thing that mattered more is that Acola has no bad losses. All acola's losses were in top 20. Raru had some losses outside of the top 20, and iirc had a loss outside of top 50. Also had a 25th and 17th placement. So that will take away from Raru's incredible season. Another thing that Acola has over Raru is more top 10 wins. All these things are factored, not just placements. You should look at the score between Acola and Raru. Acola has a 98 and Raru has a 88.87 meaning that theres a lot of reasons why Acola did better this season, and Raru had more reasons to be lower. - Sonix being that high is justifiable because he had way better wins than Tweek did. He has wins on Acola, Miya, Light, Asimo, Raru, and Tweek twice as well, which are all top 10. His run at Supernova is one of the greatest losers runs of all time, winning sets vs HALF of the top 15. Add to that his consistency at high valued tournaments, he is actually valued more than Light but the only reason Light is above is because Sonix got hit by attendance penalty. And then consider Tweek's wins. They are impressive but Tweek had only Sonix wins and 1 Miya win in top 10, same thing at other majors, he gets 9th or 7th because he is seeded to get that placement. So Tweek basically beat players he is already better than, and lose to players who are better than him so those 9th or 7th places are not that valuable. Saying Sonix should be #9 or #10 is a VERY unpopular opinion, many people would disagree. - Hurt did not win a supermajor in 2024.2 season, Smash Awesome happened for this season and thus that counts for 2025. The tournament he did win for 2024.2 season is a submajor, not even a major. - If the rankings were just about who won the most supermajors, then Miya and Acola would almost always be #1 and #2 because there are more majors in Japan than anywhere else. This season already has 4 Japanese Supermajors (and 1 major) whereas NA has 1 supermajor and no majors yet. The way they value head to heads, losses, consistency and attendance are all important to evaluating a fair system across the globe. There are still other issues for sure like how Japan inflation is always increasing because of the amount of supermajors they can reproduce is insane. - 'Shuton and Tweek are the only players to never miss a top 10'. Light should also be included, and Shuton technically missed top 10 in the first half of one season, but if we consider top 10 yearly, then yea Shuton has never missed top 10 - Overall, I do agree that winning a supermajor should count more, and that Tweek should be higher (Leo and Shuton are too high imo), but I think you are valuing the win of a supermajor too highly. Light and Sonix > Tweek makes perfect sense to the general majority. The logic being that a person who wins 1 supermajor < A person who doesn't win but gets 2nd or 3rd at everything else. And add the wins that all players gets, its clear that Sonix and Light had better head to head wins in 2024.2 season. Another thing that I think you should reevaaluate is that a supermajor win is potentially not that impactful if all you did was beat players that arent that good. Like if a player like Lui$ made top 8 and you beat him, sure he beat others to make it there and he is top 50 in the world, but it's not as good as if the projected seeded player Miya got there and you beat Miya instead. Sonix's 2nd place at Supernova beating Light, Miya, Tweek, Acola, Raru, Asimo, and SHADIC is by far more impressive than Tweek's supermajor win where he only beat Sonix and SHADIC of the top 20.

[@Arctyx_Xo]

Raru attendet like 3 times more tournaments than acola, ypur argument makes no sense

[@KinSmashClub]

@Arctyx_Xo Theres nothing in that argument that states Acola is higher because he attended more. Attending more does not mean by default you get more points, you need to be consistent as well.

[@Arctyx_Xo]

@@KinSmashClub thats the thing qcola attends nothing, its not hard to be consistent if you dont attend

[@KinSmashClub]

​@ Attends nothing? He attended SIX supermajors. That's equal to the same amount of supermajors that Sonix AND Sparg0 combined. Just because he doesn't attend B or C tiers doesnt mean he doesnt attend. And its still hard to be consistent if you attend SIX supermajors. Id like to see you or any top player not named Sparg0 try to attend 6 supermajors and get top 4 5/6 times and a 7th at one other time.

[@rubenlopez8591]

This guy making some sense

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

No he's not. He has no idea what he's talking about.

[@mavriktheTempest]

I like kind of agree with you about winning supermajors getting you higher placements and tweek definitely should have been higher but i think you are under rating wins/H2H to much they definitely do matter and I think that's why acola is a clear 3rd also raru did not win a P tier. I also think you aren't looking at low placements enough hurt got like 25th at a couple tournaments and that's why he's so low same for a few of the others. otherwise I agree though tweeks placement is criminal

[@retroreviews_]

I think you're right about low placements - a 25th is pretty low for a top player, but it's still hard for me to see him win a Supermajor and not make top 10 somehow. For Raru I'm a bit confused, since Liquidpedia had his Supermajor win listed as a P tier - maybe it was retroactively changed? I'm fine with him being below Acola, but he should have been right behind him imo.

[@ygt0812]

​@retroreviews_ Hurt didnt win a supermajor in the 2024.2 season tho. If you're referring about Smash Awesome!, that's part of the 2025.1 season.

[@SalemAndMug]

Tweek in tenth is crazy

[@retroreviews_]

RIGHT?? The second I saw him that low in the reveal video I knew I was about to be angry.

[@erikrevier4053]

Completely agree with you. Spargo at 1 is correct in my opinion and well deserved. Light as much of a fan as I am of him, is waaaayyyy tooo high. Tweek should be like 5th-6th imho. Sonix should be lower because he can't close tourneys and well, that's a problem. Not sure what LG did here but it needs to be changed. Invitational tourneys should be in the mix but should be much lower value in total points or however they do these things.

[@retroreviews_]

It looks like great minds think alike 😉 I really hope they change their system a bit for this season. I'm glad we have the rankings again, but seeing them bungle the top 10 is just disappointing to see.

[@me8751]

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about Smash competitive rankings, from the sounds of it, P tier sounds like it holds more significance than it should.

[@retroreviews_]

I think the gap between P and S+ is just too vast. If they were closer together it would be completely fine imo.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@retroreviews_ The gap is so vast because the gap of the players at those events is vast. S tier=group of players equivalent to 5000-8999 points. P tier=Group of players equivalent to more than 9000. Supernova was so stacked it made it all the way to 14000 points. Do you want to tell me Luminosity makes moves Miami 2024 with its 5900 points should be even close in value on the ranking to that??? Supernova was literally twice as stacked, twice as hard.