The SONOS ARC vs. a kick-ass €1000 hi-fi system

[@DarkoAudio]

1) Got a question? Please ask it of the Darko.Audio KZbin community (and not me) as I'm off making the NEXT video 2) Kindly fact check your comment before posting 3) Polite comments that advance the conversation are most welcome (but no URLs, racist/sexist remarks or conspiracy theories, please) 4) All comments here are moderated by a third party: instagram.com/p/CTWcokaszpW/

[@juandoe7802]

I was about to return my ARC when I first purchased it, and gave the sub a chance, which made a world of difference, enough for me to keep it. Then for icing on the cake I bought the rears later and wow. I have a SVS setup and I gravitate to my Sonos more. Ease of use, clean wireless look, and sounds fantastic to me.

[@diego750]

I’ve an Arc + Sub + 2x Play Ones - with music set to full out of the surrounds it’s a great setup, for movies it’s perfect. Yes the Arc by itself or Arc + sub is a little disappointing for music, but that’s not really the intended purpose for this.

[@stonep11]

Wait, why compare the Arc, a home theater focused soundbar, to compare to two speakers, when Sonos makes the Fives, that would provide also a roughly similar priced option to compare a traditional hi-fi to?

[@petethehawk5186]

This is a confusing video. If you’re an avid audiophile that listens to A LOT of music at home why are you even trying a sound bar? Sound bars first and foremost are for increasing your experience listening to tv/movies in a relatively simple all in one device. If you’ve got the time, space and money to purchase multiple devices, run multiple cables and have plenty of space to connect speakers, amps, receivers etc all over than a sound bar is a million miles from where you want to be lol. I have a Beam 2 and 2 ikea/Sonos lamps and it works for me as I just didn’t want cables running all over the place. I don’t think anyone ever buys a sound bar because they’re thinking this is the absolute best system I could ever have for movies and music.

[@JGKassel]

Because the fives can not be paired with a tv due to lack of arc input. I want a system for tv and music

[@limpty]

I’ve got the arc / sub / and two rear ones. Music sounds really good with the whole system. Especially Atmos albums like Yello “point”.. Inxs “kick” … really fun listening.

[@definitelynotfbi119]

I've had the complete Arc system for just at 1 year now and while I absolutely love it, you perfectly described the difference between my AudioEngine A5s and the Sonos System. The music through Sonos almost feels like it's a part of the room, whereas a powered stereo pair have that presence you were talking about. Also glad to hear Bright Eyes brought up, been a fan since I'm Wide Awake It's Morning. A band shockingly close to Bright Eyes acoustically I would recommend if you haven't heard them, is "Right Away, Great Captain!".

[@migo33]

I switched my HiFi amp (Cambridge Audio) to a Sonos Amp and that solved both the TV sound (using the great Sonos Amp center modulation) and music listening. I do agree though that having a full wireless ecosystem is more convenient and esthetic but then we rely on power cables and potentially more failure points (more hardware and software issues).

[@NeilLavitt]

Love the ‘blows it out of the water, comment! I know how much you love using them - the tongue in cheek was great! Thanks for demoing this… very interesting. I think I’m going to find it hard pushing past stereo. I like it a great deal.

[@christiangarcia1546]

As a person with a house full of Sonos, I agree with everything you say on here. I have a Sonos Playbar for my main TV because I think it sounds better than the Arc or Beam and I don’t care about fake atmos. But I only use it for streaming background music through the whole house, which it actually works well for. And like you said, it improves the TV speaker experience. With a couple of Play Ones and a Sub you can actually get a decent movie experience with easy set up and whole house compatibility. But I don’t watch much TV, I mostly listen to music and for that I have a proper 2.0 set up in a music room without any Sonos interference. Bowers and Wilkins bookshelves, Shiit Preamp, vintage Sansui receiver, record player and CD player etc. Different things for different purposes

[@agdpalive4285]

I found this very useful and helpful - thanks!

[@therealzambian]

To each his own, but I think you've done a few unfair things: 1. You’re comparing a soundbar designed for a TV/Movies with a HiFi system designed for music. 2. The price for the Sonos Arc includes its ability to connect with other Sonos speakers in the whole house via wifi, Apple Airplay, Alexa, etc. 3. The Sonos Arc can be connected to your Smart Home natively and can run playlist alarms without breaking a sweat. You can change music or volume based on who’s in the room. In short, all the technology that makes it a smarter speaker adds further justification for the higher price. 4. For music, the Arc works best with its sub and surrounds. Obviously, that shoots the price through the roof, but then again Sonos has never targeted the mid-market. 5. TV suggestions: try playing movies like “SEE” on the Apple TV+ or movies with big sound stages such as “The Negotiator”. Dolby also has an app on Apple TV called “Dolby Summit” which will showcase the abilities of the Dolby Atmos on the Arc. I do agree with you that the Arc does have a delayed catch on to the Dolby Atmos, the first time you switch to music. But it does stay consistent after that.

[@silviui.]

In 2020 I discovered James Hoffmann and up-ed my coffee game, this year, in 2022, I found John Darko and up-ed my sound game.

[@PurushNahiMahaPurush]

12:38 products are about compromises. Like you said, the Sonos soundbar is for someone who does not want bulky speakers in their room, does not want to get separate amps and DAC and in general just want things to sound good. You are essentially paying for convenience vs setting up everything yourself. Your perspective is that of an audio reviewer/expert who knows what they are doing. For most people Sonos will sound good, it’s stupidly easy to setup, has good aesthetics and doesn’t take up too much space. You are sacrificing a bit of sound quality for all these niceties. It’s important to understand this because you are comparing apples to oranges.

[@YwllowFox]

Hi Jhon, i dissagre with you at 3:15. The sonos app allows for playing Atmos music tracks in Atmos format directly from apple music. I did test this on my Sonos Arc + Sub combo. What's crucial is to make sure no other sonos speaker is grouped or else it wont use the Atmos format. Thats also the way i tested: 1. select a track with Atmos over the sonos app and play it on the arc 2. group play it with a sonos five --> song reloads (in stereo format, you can hear that greatly depending on the mix) 3. ungroup again --> sonos app does not automatically switch to Atmos format again 4. select the song again --> sonos arc plays it again with Atmos I do acknowledge that it is somewhat finicky but it works, atleast for me.

[@2312dean]

Hey - you are both right haha. His video was a year ago when Apple didnt allow this - In March last year they opened this up to Sonos to coincide with Era 300 release. (so it works fine now) but only - as you said- so long as you dont group with non Atmos capable speakers

[@Bleakend]

I have the ARC paired to a Sub Gen 1 & 2 Play 3s for surround. IMO, the ARC without a Sub is probably only 50% of the experience. Being designed with such small drivers, there simply isn't enough surface area to hit low notes cleanly without distorting the mid range. Adding a Sub relieves the drivers in the ARC of this stress and there is immediate improvement to clarity and soundstage. Imaging is not a thing with soundbars though.. although TruePlay does help

[@jontrewfrombarry]

So the hifi was better than the Sonos sound bar for listening to music. I think we all kind of guessed that. However it is really good to have a definitive test and our hunches confirmed. However, how did the hifi compare with the sound bar for watching a movie on TV? Was it still better? How was the dialogue and the mix between incidental music and the spoken word? Sometimes I've found watching TV via my hifi a bit too much - great for a movie but over the top for a cooking show or a soap opera.

[@jamestozer2960]

My understanding of how the faux Atmos tech works is by bouncing the sound waves off the walls and ceiling. DO you think your room treatment hamstrings it a bit?

[@archwaytech]

When it comes to soundstage the main advantage stereo speakers has is that you can physically seperate more than the fixed speakers of the ARC. Soundbars are first and foremost designed to be paired with a TV for movies and especially dialogue but if you're after something for just music, you can get better performance from a Stereo Setup for the same price. Thanks for your thoughts John. Always appreciate another Hi-Fi reviewers perspective.

[@cpanczak]

I have the Sonos Arc connected to an LG G1 55" and rear left / right ceiling speakers powered by Sonos Amp for 5.1 surround. We mostly use if for movies/TV and it sounds great especially on Dolby Atmos mixes. For normal ambient music listening Sonos Arc is excellent in that context, but agree it's not for ideal seated focussed listening, which would be better served by a traditional hi-fi speaker, as you have rightly pointed out. It's useful to compare but somewhat disingenuous as you are not comparing apples to apples. I also personally would never want to combine movies/TV with a hi-fi system, if you really love music then it's always better to have a dedicated set-up with the best equipment for the reproduction of stereo sound.

[@grantcooper1465]

Could your room treatment effect the sonos - isn’t it designed to bounce sound of walls ?

[@jackt-j3215]

Was about to say the same, that was my understanding on how the virtual atmos was designed to work.

[@mikeuk4130]

affect

[@justwantedtoreply]

A few friends of mine have the arc and they are used in simple setups, no dampening or special stuff in the living room. And in 2 cases since they have kids they don't use 5.1 due to cables and stuff. when they come over at my place where I have a full Samsung 5.1 setup they keep looking behind them when they hear something simply because an arc doesn't have rear audio. However I do know someone who has the arc, sub and 2 ones for rear audio which sounds nice though. However lots of audio delay. Even noticed this myself with just that smaller version of the arc. The play 5 offers stereo with a single speaker if you put balance to left or right with a song that has clear stereo you can hear it.

[@krombopulosmichael6162]

@Drew Young it got you to comment. Sonos and Apple 1: you 0

[@Benvos]

I don’t know what I’d do without Darko reviews, I’m hungover and this is brightening my day as it’s exactly the experience I found. Once you’ve heard actual hifi, a soundbar simply can’t impress you. If you just want clearer dialogue etc vs your tv speaker then great, but that is it.

[@madsmalmbakkjeldsen1920]

Dear John. I have the Arc and love it. For watching TV. For music I completely agree that it’s not optimal. However, I seem to remember that you have a pair of Play Ones. If you set the Arc up with a pair of Ones behind you everything changes. You get an enveloping experience. Admittedly, it’s not purist 2-channel but it sounds pretty damn nice. I use my Arc and Ones and a Sonos Sub for background/casual listening. For concentrated listening I use headphones. The relative best of both worlds. As an aside, you’ve had a cool focus on subwoofers recently. In my experience the best Sonos speaker is their Sub and the ease with which it works with their other speakers. I would take two Ones and Sub over two Fives any day🙂

[@harveythompson3161]

Super looking forward to John exploring surround/Atmos going forward

[@gautambodke1533]

I was contemplating on whether to go in for sonos beam Gen 2 or go for stereo separates and I guess I have my answer. Thank You!

[@ElbertCuenca]

I would be more interested with a comparison between a pair of Sonos Fives and a conventional hi-fi system. Soundbars are designed and intended to accompany TVs, and that in itself makes your review an apples-to-oranges comparison. From the moment I started playing your clip, I expected you'd be disappointed with the Arc as a music system. It is a single-enclosure speaker, after all. Even if you add a Sub and a pair of satellites to it, it doubt it would deliver the kind of experience a hi-fi system would in terms of music sound reproduction. I know because I have a similar setup at home. I've divided their duties--Sonos home theater system for movies and TV, and a Rotel amp with a pair of bookshelves on stands for music. I'm pretty certain that If you did the same comparison of Arc vs. hi-fi, but in the context of cinematic audio, the result would be the reverse.

[@spa2damax]

True by it's his patreons picking the gear for this I think

[@sticklebricks]

Would your room treatment interfere with the sound bar bouncing sounds off walls and ceiling to improve the virtualized surround sound? I swear in my room the left channel sounds much wider where my Sonos playbase can bounce off a plain wall than the right channel which has curtains and other nik naks to deal with. I also wonder if you tried comparing the same song from the TV as a source and from the app. I swear it puts a different sound signature where it's expecting TV or film audio from the TV even if it's a music app.

[@tyo101]

Thanks, Darko. Very helpful video.

[@thirdkey9]

Appreciate your going into connecting lanes and for those of us who do 2.1 channel & headphone centric listening with home theater, gaming and live performance streaming or concert footage. Within an urban residence, my TV set up is in a small entertainment room and found that dynamic powered speakers & open headphones were the preference though open to exploring 5.1 for larger rooms & movies / shows down the line.

[@blade1535]

Sonos ARC sounds pretty good with subwoofer and rears. I run an ARC for TV and some KEF R7s with a 100w tube amp for music.

[@hansandclau]

Exactly. The ARC with the sub and a pair of One surrounds is surprisingly good and incredibly convenient. For when I really want to listen to music, though, I turn to my LS50Ws.

[@electricsnut]

Yup I have the sub also with rears and its all I could ever want for home theatre and a respectable performance for music…

[@JonathanHaughton]

I know some people play music via the TV, and that the Sonos does a great job of improving the sound from the TV. But I've always kept the systems separate - with a dedicated hifi system for music and TV/Sonos for the Tv/films. Some may say its overkill and unnecessary to have a separate hifi system when it's perfectly possible to stream music via the Sonos. But for me I want to enjoy the music in the best way possible.

[@arunashamal]

I mean, comparing any sound bar to dedicated speakers is going to give you the same result. but that isn't a fault with sonos. Arc isn't made for music and it perform far better than 2 channel system like the one shown here for movies. and other visual content. Bass is a huge part of movie watching, audiophiles tend to ignore bass in their music for some reason, but for a movie you want real deep bass, and all the audio action generally happens in front of you and occasionally a stray bullet or something like that properly encoded in a movie track will play acceptably on Arc, so different products made for different uses. and then comes the issue of footprint and the bunch of gear issue he mentioned in the video.

[@joshmcgowan4]

Great video John!

[@seanrichards9569]

I work in professional audio, and have been delving deeper and deeper into Atmos and other Immersive type audio systems as part of my job, so I know quite a bit about it. Overall your assessment is correct, it’s pretty much a gimmick for music playback at this time, and would take a decade to mature, if ever. It may cross a threshold at some point but for now 2 channel mixing of music has been around for 50 years so there is a lot of maturing to happen for it to overtake (or improve on) existing audio experiences. As for home listening; I have my TV included in my overall audio system at home, with Sony Bravia as TV and Hegel/Elac + REL sub to replace my TV speakers. Since I still consider myself an ‘audiophile’ at it’s most basic and prioritize music over surround sound, I would NEVER replace this 2.1 setup with a soundbar, no matter how premier it is, even if there are a few negatives when watching well mixed films and TV. And I say this as someone who works professionally in the field. I did look briefly at adding a Sonos Arc to my games TV in the spare room, as I recently went for a C1 (love it for gaming by the way), but for the money they want I’ll stick to the TV speakers when I do watch TV in there, and use good gaming headphones for gaming. Honestly you nailed it, soundbars for music doesn’t cut it and is a MASSIVE compromise, even at a very basic investment of $ for equipment. BTW: I was just at ISE 2022 and was given a demo of a product by a Berlin based company called Holoplot. Since you are local, if you want to see what’s happening in the more ‘pro’ end of the spectrum, go to their office and get a demo of their stuff. It’ll show you how clearly companies like Sonos are the followers here, much less the leaders.

[@feejus]

Just keen to get your view. So what you are implying is that even for surround sound with SL1 and subwhoofer the sonos system is poor and a 2.1 system will beat it. For me this does not sound right, as rear speakers do have a huge impact as well as the subwhoofer. I am still interested in your thinking and would appreciate your view on this matter. Its not impossible that I change my mind.

[@jyrkih6960]

I wonder how much the acoustic treatment in your room impacts the processed Atmos from the Arc. This kind of Atmos soundbars depend on the reflections from the room surfaces.

[@Phil_f8andbethere]

I wish the music industry would focus their efforts on providing well recorded, mixed and mastered stereo, rather than all these gimmicks like atmos and stupid hi-res. Just get 16 bit 44.1 khz right and we would have all we need.

[@nicholasreeves5025]

Amen, I’m with you 100%.

[@Amphibax]

But you cant really market 16 44.1 for marketing and getting ''normal'' people to buy things you always need some new exciting tech. Personally I agree 100% 16 44.1 is fine

[@rowanrobinson]

Atmos is not a gimic with a proper setup. It is with a sound bar though.

[@bobelle2046]

Atmos or even 5.1 is superior to stereo if recorded and mixed well. Obviously, it has technical advantages with more speakers and high-res capability. The technical aspect, as well as more speakers can definitely present a better sound stage. However, I often find that much of the recordings are gimmicky. Like when you hear a guitar solo above your head and not in the front stage. I totally agree with Darko that I would rather have a good 2.0 or 2.1 sound system over a soundbar but it doesn't beat a good multi-channel system. Quality of recording is often the biggest factor whether stereo or multi-channel.

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

Having worked in the music industry since 1980 I can assure you that 100% of the effort in making a record is getting the recording, the mixing and the mastering as good as it possibly can be. Modern records are extremely skilfully recorded and mixed. Mastering has been somewhat tainted by fashionable heavy processing, but the people doing the mastering are still very skilled and have amazing ears. I think there is often a confusion between personal taste and what is or isn’t good/right.

[@TheDealer1228]

13:20 - 13:30 might be my favorite Darko moment ever. I knew it was coming, but it still made me laugh, and the bomb drop noise in the background made it 100x better lol.

[@swissgator6312]

One point I thought of is that the Sonos is somewhat designed to "bounce" sound off the walls and ceiling to give it a more open soundstage. However, I'm pretty sure John has sound deading material on the walls that may decrease the performance. That said, the Arc is really designed for home cinema and not music. Perhaps a fairer test would be using 3 Play 1's (left right center) and see how that sounds or perhaps to Play 5 as he mentioned.

[@sphaera3809]

I think a comparison against a Sonos stereo pair might be fairer. I have a pair of the latest Era 300 and find it excellent, the room correction software works really well well. Not counting sheer practicality, lol, no interconnects, speaker cables, no chances of ground loops either…

[@umbrollo]

This channel nails it. Real world examples l, real world comparisons. Plus my dog loves the music.

[@earlfenwick]

I use a beam with two Ikeas at the rear. It works pretty well. Only a little bit meh as long as you don't AB it with stereo system. Surround effects are good and lends some space to the music. It has its moments.

[@Neko20231]

Now I'd like to know how a dedicated music speaker system sounds. I have the Sonos Arc + 2 Sonos Era 300 speakers in the back + Sonos Subwoofer + Sonos Port to connect to my turntable and it sounds pretty good in my opinion with the full Sonos ecosystem... but again I haven't heard a dedicated hi-fi system.

[@justwantedtoreply]

I agree, Sonos play 5 is nice as a stereo setup. And the app is nice with Spotify and local playback. Even a turntable through the line in is nice. Soundbars are there just to replace the tv speakers. I still prefer a 5.1 set Samsung htd5500 from the top of my head over soundbars. And I get multiple inputs, blue-ray player for way less. Sure I got both the dual play 5 and Samsung set which puts it past the 1000 euro mark but I never listen to music on my surround set only on the Sonos speakers.

[@Slimecrazy234]

I have a Sonos Arc and the soundstage feels a lot wider and taller than what you've shown at 12:00 in the video.

[@mrpaulo9878]

Great review as always but I think the comparison with a dedicated hifi is a little apples and pairs as each is going to what the other doesn't do well, better. One does TV and movies really well but can also play music ok'ish. The other plays music really well but can play TV and movies but ok'ish. I own an arc, sub and 2 play 1s in a listening room for my TV and it sounds fantastic with none of the wires etc I wouldn't ever listen to music on it and as you say. If anyone buys it just for music then they have been mis-sold as Sonos have "hifi" speakers dedicated to music.

[@eEridani]

What i understand he is saying is that even for playing movies, the stereo image and sound stage of the hifi system is better than the atmos mode of the sound bar. And it totally makes sens to me. Even the most impressive sound bars out there can't compete with proper stereo system, let alone proper suround systems. The only upsides of sound bars are there size and simplicity of use. And for some people, this is important.

[@mrpaulo9878]

@@eEridani I didn't take that away but maybe you are right. Owning an arc and having a much higher spec hifi in the room that was tested here, I still believe the Sonos arc will far about perform most stereo hifi for TVs and movies. It digs really deep, certainly deeper than those Dali's, is highly entertaining but also it does a much better job with voice and effects than a stereo hifi. Anyhow, with surround play 1s and a sub it entertains me and my family incredibly well along side and not intruding into workings of my dedicated hifi. Listening to music through av amps is God aweful so the Sonos arc etc is a great solution in my case, i.e. it needed to sit next to a high spec hifi.

[@cinqiwc]

Thank you for this very interesting comparison. I have been living with the Arc for over a year. Combined with a sub and two Play 1 rears it provides an easy to use surround system, linked to my Samsung The Frame. Samsung did take over a year! to fix the isse that you could not use the Arc in E-arc mode. Be glad you didn’t have that issue while testing. For ‘easy listening background music’ the SONOS setup is fine but it’s by no means a replacement for HiFi. A few months ago, I got a pair of PMC LB1’s and I dug up my 30 year old Luxman LV92. Linked to a Bluos Node 2 it is way better for music than the SONOS surround system, confirming your findings. Sorry for the long story and keep up the good work. I love your videos!

[@JoelOman1980]

I own both a BOSE Soundbar and a "real" 2ch hifi system (Triangle, Marantz) and I can confirm that I never play music (ok, KZbin occasionally) through the bar. The separates are so much more musical. Full heartedly understand this comparison and would recommend anyone into buying a system for music, to stick to the ol' fashioned way! Keep rockin' Darko!

[@The8blackwidow8]

Could it be that the soundbar actually relies on reflections from the walls and your listening room is just too well damped and set up for stand mount speakers (since they stand a few meters appart and are facing your listening position, they sound close to ideal)? I work at an institute with an anechoic chamber. I once brought my JBL Charge 3 there and it sounded awefull but when playing in an untreated room, it sounds quiet good.

[@markthompson5777]

I think it's a fair assessment, we have a Sonos Beam, for the sun room TV, for general TV sound and background music duties, for what it is, a fantastic bit of kit. Definitely not hifi by any standard but a vast improvement on the TV sound offering. Previously had a Yamaha soundbar and sub, but was so poor and inconsistent, got rid. The software on the Sonos just works too. I think for the small room that ours is located, 3m x 3.5m it is adequate and performs well, in a larger room I would doubt it.

[@balexandre]

A Dolby atmos bar needs the walls and ceiling to reflect the sound, and I would, at least add 2 ikea Sonos speakers in the back, with so much acoustic panels, will for sure stop the reflection…

[@Amphibax]

For me the main reason to go with the HiFi system is that I can upgrade parts when I want When need some upgrades for the soundbar your only real option is getting a complete new one

[@geraldmcmullon2465]

This has been the case when everything plugged into everything else. With digital signals and multiple standards that change every few years some part of the system gets out of date and a confusing array of convertors and choices for digital signals; upgrade paths may exist. Digital processing changes that. DSP works when the designer knows what components are being used hence DSP active speakers sounding better than their passive versions. The only clear way of knowing that all parts work together is getting all new parts.

[@MrBlueacara]

I have heard a Sonos with sub and two satellites- they sounded great. I have a dedicated 2 channel with tube amp and Sonos sounded just as good- the complete Sonos system is about 3k. If I had to do this all over again- I would just go with a premium soundbar with sub and satellite

[@NickFabi]

Very interesting review, I think it is a case of horses for courses. The ‘soundbar’ is definitely a must have for all new flatscreens but the Sonos system is a trade off for people who want a better flavour without going down the whole surround sound / hi-if route and also like the people who came before them who liked bang and olufsen because the sleek / simplistic design. Quite often we fine ourselves choosing style over substance not to say the Sonos is no good because it does what it does well and I can say this because I have the soundbar / sub / lots of ones knocking around in different setups

[@spim223]

Reviewing sonos arc is… a difficult thing. I own one, bought sub and rear speakers to it later. I remember my disappointment when I first installed it in my living room. Tried using trueplay several times but the music sounded very artificial… very weird. Movies were great, it’s obviously built for that in the first place. Then I’ve used different device for tuning, this time my old ipad pro. The difference was like night and day. Later I’ve added sub to the mix, which now I think is mandatory for this sub, that’s how much it changed the whole experience. In many things I agree with this review, however I don’t have an issue of how “wide” this soundbar sounds, since mine is sometimes as close as to having a pair of headphones on my head (before I’ve added rear speakers). But my room is much smaller than his, I don’t have a space for dedicated left and right speakers - that’s why I’ve bought a soundbar instead of separate speakers. I can’t recommend this soundbar to someone who got space for speakers next to the tv, but as a soundbar it’s amazing. Watching movies and series is such great experience, but with music listening I agree with the reviewer here, not the best system for the money.

[@ewu2030]

and if your room is not too large I would also go for KEF LSX and skip the amp if space is of concern. and you can still buy a decent dac for those if you wish.

[@marcelomunoz2474]

Y el sonido envolvente?

[@tomeks84]

KEF LSX doesn't have HDMI, only LSX II does but its price is well above 1000EUR.

[@neilshirley]

Loving the current videos where you are introducing TV sounds and surrouns sound, thank you.

[@williamdavis7931]

Wished you had the Sonos subwoofer too, the Arc sonics improves when not having to handle the low frequencies. But that would send the budget close to $2K

[@Zoranurai13]

At that point the hifi system can also add €500 subwoofer and the speakers can be upgraded for €300 more as well. Not to knock on sonos but the situation doesn’t change

[@OlavAlexanderMjelde]

I dont think a soundbar is there to compete against regular hifi speakers + amp combos, its more for people who dont want or cant have a lot of such devices in the room.

[@SizzlingStu]

Yet to hear a Sonos setup I like for the money. I came to the conclusion that the interface and ease of use has taken priority over the actual sound

[@NeilLavitt]

I agree, though, for some the interface is the priority and in all truth, they don’t sound at all bad so for the punter who has not demoed the 1000 Euro alternative system and just wants and easy to use Sonos delivers.

[@mdlindc]

Thanks for this video. I just set up the Arc, a sub, and two Sonos 1s in my TV room. I think the music sounds ok, but I can completely understand your comment about the soundstage. For that very reason, I plan to also add to that room and stand-alone HiFi system for vinyl and some streaming playback. Cheers!

[@mugenoesis]

I know you were doing this through the lense of music listening, but would have been interesting to hear your thoughts on how they compared watching a movie

[@Paullowther]

Exactly. From a hardware perspective, the Arc is primarily sold a home cinema device that happens to do music. It's got a solid music app, but hardware wise, it definiely errs on the side of home cinema. It's a little like comparing a Ferrari and Range Rover, but only taking the cars out on a race track.

[@markhoss6538]

I own a Klipsch Cinema 600 (5.2) system and I love it. Awesome for movies. For music, it depends on the recorded source. For example, I can pop on KZbin and type in “Reference Music” and it sounds amazing. Sometimes other sources only sound ok. But like you said, You have to spend more money and have a lot more stuff which is what I didn’t want. I agree with what you said about the Sonos Arc too. Great Video!

[@FewcanJAM]

I love the Sonos arc for movies in our living room. The wife loves it and it has that clean look and appeal. For music I totally agree with you. For movies the Sonos does some amazing things mainly the dialog clarity Meanwhile in the bonus room I have my Elac bookshelf hifi system connected to a Sonos Amp for movie nights with the guys

[@kaifa76]

I’d love to see the same content with 2 Sonos Five instead of Arc.

[@H2OFSU]

I like the Sonos app, but didn’t like the Arc. Ended up with the Sonos Amp with a pair of KEF speakers and a sub. Way better option for those trying to stay with the Sonos ecosystem. Sounds very good.

[@Robert.Dickson]

The ‘miss’ of a fraction of a second at the start. I used to get this when playing from my Apple TV way back as far as 2012 when playing through an AV receiver and it done my head in so much I stopped using it. I now use a standard Sonos Play setup and I get no similar problem using Tidal.

[@KaiHowells]

I've got the Arc with the Sub, and I threw in a pair of PLAY:3 speakers I had kicking around, and it's a lot better for music, but still not as good as a dedicated 2.0 or 2.1 system. It's good for music, much better with the Sub than without, and for watching movies it's amazing. I get a huge soundstage from the entire front of my lounge room. I have the Arc hanging on a bracket below my wall-mounted TV, so the Arc is extending out in front of the plane of the TV, which allows the upward firing speakers to work and it's great. It's definitely not as good for music as the 2.0 system I had with large floor-standing speakers, but then I didn't really expect it would be. It is so much better for watching video content however.

[@ronnytm]

Sonos have "Loudness" enabled by default on all their speakers. It's the first thing I disable for a more natural sound.

[@GoonSmith007]

I wonder if the non immersive surround sound is because your room is sound deadened. I think a lot of the virtual atmos soundbars (we have one) rely on sound bouncing and reflecting off the walls. Ours certainly sounded better in a squarer room versus our now larger vaulted ceiling room

[@33buddyrich]

I wasnt wowed by the Arc vs the even the older Beam for music mostly because of the mids, though using the sub helps quite a bit, nor my old B&W CM9 system (which i still use in a different room with the Sonos Amp for 2ch music now)... That said, the bar sounds noticeably better for music when feed via the app directly using AM vs via hdmi and the ATV4k. You lose Atmos tracks (and lossless) but this way but it just sounds fuller. Mainly because Sonos has a setting for "music" that mixes sound to the rears if you use them, either in full or ambient (more subtle but still fuller than nothing). it does not apply this to line in tv source that is 2ch pcm or multichannel. The only time you get anything out the rears via hdmi if it is an atmos or true multichannel track, say from a bluray music dvd or old dvda or the like.

[@tobias7104]

Exactly. Every signal from the TV is regarded as and procesed as a movie. And I agree with you on the Arc vs Beam topic!

[@Damian_Ess]

Hi John, maybe the arc + sub + a couple of Sonos ones will change the music experience…arc alone for music - naa, won’t cut it; maybe a couple of Sonos 5’s in your hifi set up??

[@garryhutton9697]

Have this exact set up and used mainly for films but good for music too

[@BevanLewis]

Stereo is great but Atmos has the ability to create a far more immersive experience. It is the way of the future. Mixing engineers are mostly still learning the techniques and they’ll get more creative (surround has been a novelty in music until the last couple of years). I think Atmos in headphones has a lot of room for improvement though. I would have agreed with the conclusions on the Arc soundstage until I ended up buying one for a second tv watching setup and got the sub and surrounds. I have a stereo system in the same room and was shocked by the soundstage the full Arc system created. Not quite as razor sharp in imaging as the 2.0 but all most will need for an immersive experience. I think judging the Arc on its own is almost like reviewing a stereo system with one speaker 😊

[@janketilp]

I enjoyed your video when you first found out subwoofers are fun (Kef), many of us already knew this. The Arc is not a music system, it is for movies. Flip this comparison around, and feed Bladerunner 2049 into your hifi-system, then the Arc, and you'll get it.

[@ronalcasid3844]

Hey you got the Frame!

[@grahamrousell691]

We love our Sonos system, but admittedly we did go straight in with a 5.1 system of the original playbar, sub, and 2 x Play1s in the rear. The soundbar was since upgraded with the Arc. Now I know this isn't the subject of your video (comparison for audio system under EUR 1000), but I just wanted to point out that with Amazon Unlimited there are a number of Dolby Atmos tracks that can be played direct from stream, rather than via a TV with EARC. I too have made a playlist of these, and more are constantly being added. Atmos really works well in this scenario.

[@Billlakeview]

I have the arc, the sub gen 3, apple tv4k, and a sony x90j that has hdmi with e-arc and hdmi with 2.1 4k. Underwhelmed out of the box for music and tv. After the first trueplay , better. I usually keep the equalizer flat on my stereo gear, but I then tried some settings from Peter Pee youtube channel. Much better. I then realized that the sweet spot for Atmos landed 3 ft. in front of my listening position. So again, I followed Peter’s suggestion and raised the rear of the arc by about 10/16 in. I couldn’t believe how much the sound for both music and tv improved after all these steps. I also imagine that your room tuning is effecting the soundstage an incredible amount since the arc relies so much on reflected sound. My room is more rectangular with a 9 ft ceiling, just some pictures on the wall, a throw rug, 2 chairs, 2 recliners, a love seat/couch, and the furniture that the gear sits on….pretty untuned. I had a denon AVR with 5.1 system that was pretty good but this new arc plus sub is far superior for both tv and music, after I made all Peter’s suggested adjustments.

[@grd_]

I love the look of the Dali speakers. Also, thanks for the outtakes. I enjoyed them

[@madissander]

Hi! I had re re-evaluate my opinion of Sonos Arc (+ Sub + 2xPlay:1 surrounds) as music listening system. I purely used it in my TV room for movies. After Sonos enabled Spatial Audio from Apple Music and I did the necessary software upgrades both for the app and Sonos equipment. It's really a very different listening experience from stereo and in a good way. I wonder what might you think abpit it ?

[@TheHoriss]

I have an Arc plus sub and rears. For simple turn on TV get decent “surround” sound without amp fiddling it’s superb. For streaming music it sounds OK. I have a hi fi upstairs for serious listening which the Arc can’t match. Horses for courses.

[@garyganser2451]

I agree with you completely. I did 3 months with an Arc and my comparably priced stereo and I returned the Arc. My wife is not happy, but I am.

[@nebod1556]

better be single ...less stress and can do the way you like in life, not constantly worry about what others would say or feel in the household...

[@CaffeinePanda]

Agree with your assessment of the sound of the Arc for music, but personally still find it absolutely worthwhile because my priority for it is movies and TV. They sound incredible on the arc, with well rounded sound, shaking bass effects, and really crisp dialogue which is something I often have a problem hearing on stereo speakers. I also agree that it doesn't live up to the advertised idea of it being surround sound all in one; those side speakers don't replace true surrounds. That being said your setup is also a factor I think. You have tons of room treatment on the walls and ceiling to cut down on reflections, but those reflections are exactly what Sonos uses to create the surround sound and Atmos effects. When you break them up, you won't get those results. You're also quite far back from the sound bar, the ideal position for the Atmos effect depends on your ceiling height. I think they should angle the height driver's more, but you may get better results if your MLP is closer. In the end I decided I wanted both; I still have my bookshelf speakers connected to my turntable and Volumio Rpi, and I'm running the Sonos arc with the TV. Plan on expanding to the sub and surrounds. You're right that it's not a good fit for people who prioritize music, but if you want simplicity and good TV audio, it's way up there.

[@HouseofRecordsTacoma]

Good for occasional music. Correct. However many really are looking for that smaller footprint & are willing to (IMO) suffer the slings & arrows.

[@uggyuggyuggyoioioi]

Add the Sub and 2 one sls it will blow you away on a different level

[@jamesc2311]

Am I right that we missed the comparison for use with film / TV? It seems obvious you should buy a hifi for music, but what about use for mainly film/TV, also music?

[@daniel2150]

You are right. i missed it as well. Was wondering how good the stereo setup can manage a movie in comparison to the Arc.

[@speedmatters]

I run a vintage valve amp and wharfdale lintons and a sub - I love my hifi, especially the warmer vintage sounding speakers...I also have a sonos complete set-up with two sonos ones surrounds behind and above with the sonos sub - they are night and day different listening experiences but I love the sonos for music because the sound stage is huge and the clarity is superb. I hope you get to experience the full sonos set-up with some music. It's ridiculously expensive but the ease of use and ability to tweak settings for music and film make it a safe bet.

[@bard3405]

Hi whats in your sonos set up?

[@erniecf]

Awesome - love the contrast. Which would you say you listen to more?

[@jlow341]

Just auditioned the arc and found the exact same. One thing that works for me in making my Dali Oberon 3 speakers less intrusive, is placing them on isoacoustics mini-pucks on a wide tv bench under the tv. Cheers.

[@antoniocifre5654]

I had the Sonos Arc and I felt like you. I returned whit the 100 days return time and now I have the Kef LSX. What a difference. I never go back to sound bar.

[@dineshanblazahan9843]

Can’t agree more with you .. I tried moving from Bose 700 bar + sub to Sonos Arc with sub… but the store person recommended simple hifi system in same price range and I am blown away …. And because of which I am totally getting into it …

[@simonfriedman9212]

This doesn't necessarily go without saying although it does track with your content, but I just want to take a moment to appreciate the audio quality of your videos. I don't know how you record and master them, but the quality is both noted and appreciated.

[@1881Gordon]

I'll second that! In the music interludes the sound really comes out at you. Great video and audio content on this channel.

[@markmedeiros3137]

I own a Arc as a compromise with my wife and it’s great for home theater and pretty darn good for convenience music listening. You definitely need to do the TrueSound room calibration though. It helps immensely.

[@seghezzou2]

Sonos Arc it’s a great solution for movies, if you add a pair Sonos One SL, it’s amazing, but is not the system I would purchase if I want it for listening to music. That’s why I’ve got a Kef LSX

[@markharby180]

But surely SONOS have never been about competing with Hi-Fi quality sound, it’s always been about the convenience. I have both SONOS and a dedicated Hi-Fi system setup and use each one depending on what I need it for.

[@FPShkED]

The Arc is useless without the sub. But when paired, it sounds amazing.

[@KishorTwist]

Extremely expensive combo!

[@tomeks84]

Only in movies/TV shows and maybe in certain, bass heavy genres of music.

[@jimfarrell4635]

I run a full 7.1.4 surround system and, despite that, find most Atmos music very disappointing. The exception is Steven Wilson's Atmos mixes which really showcase the format and turn it into a truly new, and super-immersive way of listening to music. But the price of admission is very high considering the amount of available, high quality content. My music listening is still almost completely done using my 2 channel systems.

[@brianh2476]

So many reviewers posit the Arc as the best thing since sliced bread: but I thank you for rewarding my subscription with integrity John.

[@tallicarule1991]

Great video - always thought my 2.0 hifi for less than £1000 sounded better than sound bars. Would have liked to hear your thoughts comparing the two setups for tv use - particularly movies.

[@joshwalker2015]

I have a ton of sonos gear, but it is all either attached to a TV or put into a room that just needs some kind of simple audio setup. They are great for TV/movies. It’s great for something like a party where you just want music everywhere. Couldn’t agree more that a dedicated 2 channel setup is much better for music. I have a pair of LSX that I will listen to music on all day before I’ll listen to the sonos, and those are about the same price and just as easy to set up.

[@klaymoon1]

Great video! I really hope you will also compared Sonos ARC against KEF LSX too!

[@sergiocwp]

Wouldn’t it be a better music experience to get to 2 Sonos 5s in a stereo pair if you are focusing on music? It is in the $1k’ish range….(edit - just saw darko review of the 5s. Another great video. Thanks for the honest and informative reviews)

[@jdavis234]

I got rid of my Sonos Playbar and SUB a year ago. Replaced it with an nr1200, Polk legends and a REL. The difference in fidelity and soundstage for music was substantial. Would never go back to a sound bar. But if you’re only watching movies, a soundbar isn’t terrible.

[@jiayaw]

If you want to have an atmos soundbar for movies and don't want to have a full surround setup, not a bad idea to get a decent midrange soundbar (don't waste money getting top of line soundbar) for movies then used money leftover for a stereo setup, be it power speakers, mini hifi or pair of passive speakers and amp setup. That way for price of less than a top of line soundbar, you'll get decent movie sound experience and better music experience than any sound bars

[@melissaromero6321]

John, you should check Nightswimming from automatic for the people, the dolby atmos version isounds so different, you could swear is a re-recording. Pay close attention to the vocals vs normal stereo or hi-res