The Sound Couple - Fix My Mix!

The Sound Couple returns for another church gig. Coming off two consecutive gigs, we realize after the fact, we were not on top of our game. We didn't realize so much the day of but afterwards when we were putting the video together....so we are asking for your input!
The Sound Couple, feeling in a daring mood is asking for your comments and feedback on this gig! We hope to have some fun and all learn something from each other!
The Sound Couple primarily use PreSonus gear featuring:
PreSonus UC Surface
PreSonus CDL12
PreSonus CDL18s
PreSonus 32R
PreSonus SW5E
PreSonus NSB Stageboxes
PreSonus AVB-D16
Please see our "About" for a more comprehensive list of gear we use.
0:00 - Intro
1:25 - Arrival
2:06 - Set-up
13:18 - Systems check
19:58 - Sound check
35:05 - Pre-show review
37:14 - Bart video interjection
39:00 - Feeling Groovy
40:00 - Love Me Like a Rock
40:40 - If I Could
42:17 - The Sounds of Silence
44:03 - Cecelia
45:05 - Still Crazy After All These Years
47:09 - Fifty Ways
49:17 - Homeward Bound
50:03 - Kathy’s Songs
50:52 - Late in the Evening
53:39 - Tear Down/Lesson’s Learned
61:26 - Gig Recap

[@stephenstange4194]

I believe you are already doing the single most important thing to improve your mix, which is to listen to it again after the event and analyze it, asking others (even the internet (I’m not that brave) ) for input. That humble approach, more than any EQ, compressor or mic choices will allow you to continue to grow. Well done, stay humble and stay curious. You guys rock.

[@thesoundcouple]

Completely agree...as you can see, we walked away feeling good about everything. When we started work on the video...I was truly thinking what was I smokin'? So not only did we have the video, we had audio too! Really valuable and wanted to share that perspective with you.

[@gavintichenor7619]

As an audio engineer for a sound company, the only advice I can say is you're doing an amazing job. We all have crap days. Or in my case a day where the 6k range on a guitar feeds back non stop and you go on a mission to find it. We all have crap days. You're doing good man.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks! Part of reason for doing this video was to remind all of us that we need to be humbled and reflective regardless of your level and abilities and there is always room to improve. I remember working around some pretty confident sound guys back in the day and thinking back on it now...at the core was a lot of insecurities and they weren't as good as they claimed to be.

[@wharman1]

Never underestimate the awesome power of fatigue - both ear and physical - that follow you from gig to gig. I really think you are being too hard on yourself. The band is responsible for communicating their needs too. It is a partnership. The soundcheck seemed a bit rushed. In the end, church audiences are mostly concerned about sound levels (and appropriateness of content, but that is another issue). I am willing to bet the crowd loved the performance and would recommend you again. If the band was upset, they need to communicate that quickly and professionally during the performance. Overall, I think the Sound Couple remain sound. When sound people go to other gigs, they can't help but criticize the sound. It just occurred to me that you are in the unique situation of being an armchair quarterback for your own performance! Future you is a pretty tough critic on fatigued you. Please don't beat yourself up! Love the video. You are a great team. Four ears are better than one - Chin up!

[@thesoundcouple]

Spot on. Three in a row, and both physical and ear fatigue make for an interesting gig! Thanks for your comments!

[@DeanKWilson]

I would counter this video’s title with “Not Really as Much to Fix as You Might Feel.” The Sound Couple is back at the White Bear Lake United Methodist Church, surrounded by friends and familiar surroundings. This video is dear to the hearts of those of us who have followed The Sound Couple’s KZbin channel from the very beginning. We started at the church, learned from those early videos, and are delighted to be back at this Sunday afternoon outdoor venue once again. The value of having the Furman F1000-UPS power conditioner with back-up battery is evident, as Bart can power the rack-mounted PreSonus 32R mixer and NowSonic Stage Router Pro WiFi switch while rolling down the road, allowing him to configure the PreSonus UC Surface before arriving at the venue. With Stacy at the wheel, this arrangement works quite well. I had to smile, as I greatly enjoyed Music Director John Koziol’s comment to Stacy: “You must be the strongest woman I know.”-responding to Stacy moving a piece of equipment. And, I would respond: “She’s smart, creative, and a great partner, too, John.” As usual, there are challenges during set-up that The Sound Couple troubleshoots with their usual professionalism. The PreSonus stage boxes not showing up on the AVB stream, handled by power cycling the mixer is one example. A useful lesson for us occurs, as Bart checks the monitors, mains, and outfill speakers. His tuning of each monitor to avoid feedback is an excellent reminder of the kind of actions that professionals must take to guarantee no surprises during the performance. Another lesson occurs when Bart notices that the drum mics are still configured as analog, rather than digital. He corrects this on UC Surface. Likewise, working with the drummer to select a different mic and to properly set the equalization for each drum and cymbal. Then, trying to remove a click from the bass drum offered another challenge. The next lesson occurs when the acoustic guitar presents some issues. Bart works smoothly with the guitarist to resolve the perceived problem. Then, Bart works with the other guitarist to resolve his issues. The collegiality that The Sound Couple generates whenever problems arise, always seems to increase the harmonious way in which The Sound Couple works smoothly with the musicians. Perhaps the most important lesson will come from the comments that Bart has requested from the viewers of this video. What a unique opportunity for all of us who watch this channel to learn together. My Comments: 1. It appears that, leading up to the performance, this was a somewhat overcast day. This portends a good amount of humidity in the ambient air. The greater density of the ambient air can have a significant influence on the production, persistence, and transmission of sound at specific frequencies. I cannot help but feel that this had much more of an influence on the instruments, as they produced the sounds, than might have normally been anticipated. 2. The click on the bass drum could have resulted from a loose tracking of the bass drum pedal mechanism. Noramaly, the pure acoustic sound of the drum would overpower the click. But, when close mic-ed, the click becomes more noticeable and annoying. 3. In conclusion, I think that the overall mix as recorded by the camera mic seemed to indicate that those in the audience would not have been as affected by the “quality” of the mix as Bart may have been, since he has a much more perfectionistic knowledge and critical approach to his own work product. 4. Bart’s own on-screen summary of the “Lessons Learned” gave us a good insight into his thinking about this gig. They are very much worth carefully reviewing. 5. I still believe that this was not as bad an event as Bart might believe. It is important to realize that sound professionals become more attuned to musicians when they work together over multiple gigs in a variety of venues. In this instance, this was a one-time event. Even with years of professional experience, it is possible for sound professionals to have a situation where there is not enough time during a sound check to catch all the subtle intervening variables that can make the mix disappointing to the sound professional. Ultimately, the audience is the only genuine arbiter of whether or not the performance was acceptable. My guess is that all those attending had a very enjoyable time with no complaints. From my perspective, as someone who tends to be hypercritical and more than a little perfectionistic, this is definitely a stand-out video. Lots to learn from this experience and, at the same time, much for which to thank The Sound Couple in providing this opportunity for us to learn from them and their years of experience.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Dean! Your points are all really good insights and perspectives. You're right, not as bad even for me as I started to work through it, but it took me by a bit of a surprise when we started to work on this video. This is a benefit of coming back to these gigs months later to work on them because the perspective has changed. We sure hope that people take the time to read your messages....they are worth just as much as these videos for people looking to learn...you certainly have a lot to offer!

[@heyyo1605]

Yay finally another episode of the sound couple. Thanks for the amazing video. 🙏🙌 Unfortunately I made a mistake of binge watching all your videos in two days lol. Should've taken my time 😂

[@nscaledelights]

I feel the same way I binged the SC now Im going through withdrawal lol, Im very happy to see another episode.

[@thesoundcouple]

That's awesome guys! We really appreciate that!

[@colemartin9077]

If the audience likes it, then you've done your job. I think fatigue plays a role and thinking it's a bad mix, but it's really not. Looks to me like they were having a good time, y'all. Good job, everyone.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Cole! It's nice to see all of the perspectives on this.

[@neilbarcelona3534]

finally, another journey... i really like all your videos... i've learned some of your tips and advice.. i have also sound system for my gigs but your gear is so beautiful and quality..Godbless both of you and more videos... greetings from Philippines..

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Neil! We love hearing from everyone around the globe....how cool is that!

[@hiblitdrummer]

Great job, you were working with a lot of unknowns and did a great job making it happen on the fly! Always enjoy watching and learning with you guys. Those were outstanding musicians, they gave you a good bunch of gear and sounds to work with. The raw recordings were very good. Wish I had a consistent helper as good as Stacy! Bart, you did a great job. PS - got my first set of CDL12P's this season based on your experiences and enjoy them as tops with my small rig, so far. Thanks for all you do.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thank you! We are glad to help where we can. We just got two more shows booked with them...one back at the church and another corporate. Definitely will apply all of things learned from this video the next go around! It's funny, the videos are becoming a knowledge base for us as well as we find ourselves going back and reviewing our own gigs! Ha ha! The CDL's are nice sounding cabinets :)

[@chuckcaldwell8423]

Bart and Stacey. Great job as usual. Bart I think you are being to hard on yourself. The camera footage sounds great. I know we as sound men & women are really never 100% happy with our work (always think we could have made it sound better) all and all it sounded great!! You two always do a top notch job. Keep up the good work. Love the videos

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Chuck! Perhaps the bigger point is to always keep pushing to improve. It's been a long time, but I do recall some "guys" that were so full of themselves and I was too young to understand they were wrong. There is always room for improvement at any level.

[@chuckcaldwell8423]

@@thesoundcouple Totally agree

[@deewizzard598]

youe two are kool. you do great work. you always push to be better and that's why you will stay fully booked because you care 🙏🏾

[@thesoundcouple]

Thank you so much!!

[@ryleyfountain4214]

Had the same problem when mixing a band for a school fair once, the stage was facing the school building and caused a horrible high end click sadly wasn’t much could do about this but once it filled up with people the high end click wasn’t as present. Love your videos keep up great work 😊

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks for sharing your similar experience...we find that in some cases everyone can overly concerned prior to the show and when the performance starts, it is all good!

[@geraldwatkins3543]

It's so funny when the musician says that it sounds better and you know you haven't done anything 😅 The mix sounds fine on all of the songs. As you get into the gig you don't just set it and forget it. You dig in adjust parameters and ride faders from song to song. This cuts down on the audience's audio fatigue and helps the sound develop through the show. You are always gonna be your worst critic and that's a good thing for self improvement. There are always going to be factors out of your control. That's what the serenity prayer is for. Thanks for sharing as usual.

[@thesoundcouple]

Appreciate you sharing your perspective Gerald...thanks!

[@seantallica2020]

Never had problems with slap back from a building, but now I know to expect that! Thank you guys for showing y’alls gigs and set ups! Furthermore listening to the kick and the whole band, I believe there is no such thing as a “bad mix” I believe being outside has a lot of challenges and you won’t get to hear certain frequencies as good, personally for me when I record live I record it dry so I can fix it up for the band to hear, my own taste, but still thank you for sharing!

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Sean!

[@SarahJane148]

Hi Bart Hi stacy thanks for the videsos i found your channel recently learnt a lot of usfull tips you guys just seem to work well togeather & get the job done. I#m in the Uk never worked on setting up bands but i've done mobile discos meny years ago before the days of DMX & useing computers fgor music , Thanks again for the videos please keep them coming Best wishes Mark from England

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks so much! Glad you can find something useful from our channel!

[@user-tv4kj2ts4k]

I think the song towards the end after you figured out the mix part is got good I also like the way you added a touch of the reverb to the lead vocalist and made it sound like you know you're actually enjoying the concert it's not like anything did because if it was dry no effects it wouldn't sound good but kudos to you and Stacy

[@thesoundcouple]

Thank you for your comment! The mix did settle in better.

[@paolorussian1081]

Hi Bart, congratulations for the Live and for the post-production of the video. I have the brother who plays drums. In general, I place the microphone inside the bass drum 20 cm from the beater. The bass drum must have a cushion that must be positioned from time to time. He often pairs it with a Roland trigger. In difficult situations, he solves many problems. Great job Bart and great woman Stacey.

[@thesoundcouple]

Hey Paolo! Thanks for the tips!

[@DEWAYNE552]

57:48 Bart, take it easy on yourself my friend. You and Stacy’s production are top notch! Equipment, cables, buttons are ON/OFF ( many ways to make connections and paths the signal can flow) but sound at the end of the day, are subjective. You strive for perfection, that’s good. And you said it yourself, just like Musicians, we have our not so good days. Imagine going through this much effort and all your audience is drunk and having a good time, or this audience very sober and listening to every note? I think that must be why you are being hard on yourself. The band was great! And so we’re you. I enjoy you and Stacy. You are the SOUND COUPLE, and I thank you 🙏.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks D! We alway appreciate your comments and insights! I mentioned in another comment that maybe this was more about the fact that we can always strive to do better and even if we do, there are still no guarantees. In this case, it was more of a surprise when making the video!

[@davidsmeaton3082]

I was sitting here suffering with 'Man Flu' (OK .... I have a bit of a cold😂) and this popped up and cheered me up no end. I really wish I had half the skill you have Bart and I would be very happy. I am probably as critical of my own guitar playing as you are of your engineering and think that is only natural that we are our own worst critics. It all sounded pretty good to me and any issue there were, you seemed to be on top of them. Sorry I can't offer you any practical advice, but I just don't have the level of experience you have. I really liked the little comments at the end, especially the one that said Stacy works harder than Bart. That as priceless. I reality you are a great team 👍

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks David! Yeah....we don't want to take ourselves too seriously, but hopefully we at least provide some things to think and perhaps offer a smile or two!

[@nedward5871]

Always tough, but as long as the crowd enjoyed, we can be hypercritical on ourselves, but appreciate the vulnerability to ask for suggestions! The multitrack can reveal a lot, but the overall mix is what's important - so I can see where not gating the kick can be aggravating, but in the whole mix, you don't notice it. Kick mic alternate - the Audix D6 is what I use and has a much more pre-EQ'd sound that cuts a little better without EQ vs. the Shure, which sounds great but needs EQ to sometimes get over the pillowy-nature. It also is smaller so you have flexibility to put it at the edge of the sound hole, or further in for more kick batter head. On the low acoustic guitar player's lack of level - I did see a bunch of pedals and unclear if it was a quality wireless (or what levels) so first thing I'd check would be direct from guitar to DI (with a cable) to see if his wireless and pedals are the culprit. My money is on the wireless. Given he's not really running around the stage, a $10 guitar cable will beat all but the most expensive wireless systems... On the 3 keyboards - I can't see an OH mic and wondering if that had to give way for the extra keyboard channels? May not need it for live, but for the multitrack sometimes even a mono OH over the right shoulder... I'm always surprised when I ask way ahead and then a week ahead for inputs and they change at the gig for some bands... Overall I liked the mixes, and to your point it got better throughout the show. The bass player through those Bongo's sounds great - especially the "You Can Call Me Al" solo!

[@thesoundcouple]

Appreciate your comments...this is one of our favorites as it was a lot of work, but really gets you thinking about how a mix all fits together. This was a great band and being familiar with the musicians and their instruments can be a critical element in setting a mix...but it can also steer you wrong with your assumptions. Never a dull moment running sound!

[@XIIMonkeysMusicGroup]

It was the building and wood stage doing it with the kick. It happens at my house too, where the sound reflects off 3 buildings (creating a very amphitheatre type of delay!)

[@thesoundcouple]

Buildings always present an interesting component to running live sound- that’s fur sure!

[@joseruiz3995]

Guys once again thanks for your tips and suggestions on all topics related to live sound. You guys are just a great couple to watch. Your videos feel organic, and a really appreciate the attention to detail you guys have at setup. Great work like always! 😊 One question though, I’m on the hunt for new FOH speakers, debating between the CDL12P, the Bose F1 812 and the JBL PRX812

[@thesoundcouple]

We are a bit biased, but there are a lot of good choices!

[@PauloSobrinho]

congratulations, I have a lot of fun at all times.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thank you!

[@midiaaudioevideo]

Great Job. Those people was listening the same sound that the camera was so, despite the low kick punch was not appearing, all the mix was nice at P.A.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks!

[@Krezna]

live set done job done,

[@williamthesoundguybalestri1745]

Note: On that size of venue/setup, in my opinion, you don't need ANY drum mics! Just Kick and stereo over-heads preferably in X-Y format. You will eliminate all that tom ringing stuff and the sound check is a fraction of the time. Two overheads and a kick and job done!

[@thesoundcouple]

We did try that there at another show there with great success! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGPEnIqCeLKdiKM

[@williamthesoundguybalestri1745]

"I'm so crazy after all these beers!"

[@thesoundcouple]

We have all been there!

[@rickdey5407]

I give you kudos Bart, not every gig you get the drums right. My one down fall as a sound engineer, but as the sayin goes “Fix it at the source”. If it sounds like crap goin in it’s gonna sound like that goin out! A lot of drummers don’t know how to tune their kit, hence I bought a device called Tune-Bot. One of the best investments I’ve ever bought. Showed the drummers how to use and once they learn how to use it, it’s been way easier for me to get a great drum mix and the drummers love knowing their drum kit is sounding great! Don’t get down on yourself, Bart as I think your front of house mix was actually pretty dang good! Even though we try to bring our A game every gig, life gets in the way,it’s the way it is! Great vocals, thee only thing I have to say about that is backing vocals need to back off on their mics and blend. As I got to the end of the video it was way better than I think you thought! Love the videos keep up the great work!

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks for sharing Rick...the Tune-Bot looks interesting!

[@lenilson247]

Parabéns por compartilha conosco sua experiência a vida nada fácil de quem trabalha com eventos .

[@thesoundcouple]

De nada. Você está certo ao dizer que às vezes é um trabalho árduo, mas muito gratificante. Obrigado por tomar o tempo para assistir!

[@Velkus96]

Sometimes the improper gate attack can cause the annoying click. Also when using a gate I recommend playing around with its key freq, that can make a HUGE difference.

[@thesoundcouple]

Yes...agreed, need to explore that more.

[@hezekiahcharles6754]

The EVs for sidefills really sound nice👍

[@thesoundcouple]

I really believe that EV does not make a bad product. I don't know why we haven't used more EV products...it certainly is not an intentional decision. Guess we just never got there.

[@BrianSimmons]

The best way to avoid the slap back from the building is to change the stage location so the stage isn't facing the building. Obviously this isn't something that can be changed the day of the event, but it should be a conversation to have with the church about future events. Placing the stage against the woods stage left would be better IMHO. It would also allow you to get rid of the outfills I think. The audience area would be deeper vs wider like it is now.

[@thesoundcouple]

Yep! We brought this up at the beginning when they started outdoor worship. There were other considerations at play but this is how they decided to do it!

[@davebarker5750]

Where are you Sound Couple? Almost two weeks without my SC Video fix! And for what it's worth, whenever I encountered strange problems such as your slap back where the diagnosis isn't easy, I would often swap the microphone (be it a Beta 52 in the kick or a Beta 56A on the toms) for a plain old SM 57 to give me a trustworthy baseline without any processing (back in the analogue days where I'd simply remove the insert cable on the channel) and then reintroduce the processing such as gating.

[@thesoundcouple]

LOL! We are still here! We are in the process of upgrading our computers which includes a new Mac that arrives tomorrow! Your points well taken and with all of the variety of mics available now, we will get that one person that brings in the mic that they think (or were told) is the best and these situations can really mess with you. Besides the fact that there is a reason why some mics are so popular, we prefer to stick to the standards and not some quirky boutique mic that will "help you cut through the mix"!!! Ahhhhhhh!!! More videos coming soon!

[@denbig1]

Here's my approach on Gates on any gig, use if needed. In this case, I'd not use gate, it's outdoors, less going on on stage. The mic choice no problem, OH mics yes, but no big deal, not a deal breaker. This is all see what can be done during your gig; mic placement, gain/line levels, EQs tweeks, then some compression and light effects is all is what you can do.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks for your comments!

[@pvandish]

Great video as usual! I learn a lot from each one. Might be just my ears, but the vocal mix live seemed a bit dry and “harsh” at times. Not sure if some reverb/delay on vocals might have “softened” the vocals and harmonies. S&G tunes especially. Can’t remember if you said SM58’s would be better choice also…my preferred vocal mic. Thanks again for your videos!

[@thesoundcouple]

Noted!

[@jokerswildmusic4882]

Just switched to the presonus studiolive series 3 after working with the x32 line of mixers. The beginning of the video reminded me how nice it was being able to make offline show scenes without being connected to the the x32. We need to petition Presonus to include the same feature in a future update!

[@thesoundcouple]

You are preaching to the choir! This has been a long requested feature and frankly with Fender acquiring the company, we should expect that a company with deeper pockets would prioritize acquiring the resources to enable PreSonus to get these critical features into their products....So far from a customers perspective...it's been pretty much crickets. Soap Box moment - these are the reasons why the 64s is not dominating the market...it's a fantastic console that could be slamming the door on everyone else, but the lacking of these features is what will continue to prevent it from happening.

[@alberto038]

Many times the instruments are also not in tune and do not have the quality that is expected. The musicians have to give feedback when you are doing the sound check, your work is incredible, keep going. Congratulations

[@thesoundcouple]

Really appreciate the feedback....we are humbled. We really hope this video is helping everyone out with their perspectives!

[@LAURENTIU9900]

❤ hi from Romania

[@thesoundcouple]

Hello! Thanks for watching!

[@frednimako]

But you are good... It's really good, the way you Soundcheck and system check...

[@thesoundcouple]

I appreciate that!

[@bhsaproduction]

I have to agree with most of the comments below - you are being too hard on yourself. 1) the audience seemed to enjoy the gig. 2) I'm not familiar with these tunes - nor the band, but if they are looking for a certain "sound", they need to communicate that and either bring any specialist mic's/gear they want to ask you to supply thtese at the show. [I've had named artists that provide a list of gear, effects, processors etc that they require under contract to be used in all shows]. 3) The band needs to give enough time for a full sound check to make sure "everyone" is happy. Once again - Stacy, you are a real workhorse.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thank you for your feedback. The big takeaway from this video was to realize the benefits of understanding of reviewing your work and how the power of recording your work can really help with that. Live, we pulled it off, but in reviewing the recordings, it highlighted some issues that could have made the live even better. BTW, we really appreciate the time you are taking to go back through our videos....there's some good stuff out there and this is one of the videos that sticks out to us!

[@tmacklivesound1480]

Yeah listening with headphones I can hear your concern with the the kick + the acoustic slap back , which basically is putting additional emphasis on the over clicky kick drum. The perfect storm. Would have been great for a metallica tribute band. That combination would put me in a bad frame of mind as well, knowing EQ aint gonna fix that. The high tom decays/rings little too long for my taste, I like real tight drums ---gate with a shorter release? cut some 450-500 to reduce ring? QUESTION: Do you guys ever time delay your mains to match the snare's acoustic time arrival? Subtle? yes but helps removes some smearing. Cut (high Q) some ~3K out of the guitars : ) both acoustic and electric. Still an A+ guys! Love your channel!!! Great band too!

[@thesoundcouple]

Awesome insights....thank you! We haven't really played with delay but that's certainly something to consider. It would be nice if the console included ft/m for quicker estimates...just don't relate as well to "time" as a measurement.

[@Ralph1953]

@@thesoundcouple I use 1ms/ft, so the snare about 10' back -10 ms delay. I do it with all the amps too. Small detail but attention to detail is what its all about.

[@dustinthiessen]

kick gate, I would maybe speed up the attack a touch, and the release as well. also, would throw on some side chain high and low pass filters, if possible. I always like to trigger both my kick mic gates with the inside kick mic. tends to be quicker and better response than the outside mic. I also agree some light panning would be great. I tend to leave dead centre for Kick, Snare, Bass, and Lead Vox, and everything else has to find a spot off to one side, or spread stereo as much as possible. With such a dynamic band, I think you would've had a lot better time mixing on a surface, where you can have multiple fingers on multiple faders to keep everything in check.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Dustin....all good points. I think we could of done better on a desk.

[@XIIMonkeysMusicGroup]

I had my Mains and monitors not making sound last gig. Power cycling fixed it too.

[@thesoundcouple]

Oh the magic of power cycling- tech support 101!

[@Artemis_ToHc]

Check gate attack, on drum it should be at minimum, so the transient will pass when the signal goes over the threshold. If it's too slow the transient will sound bad.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[@MurrayWilliams]

As a musician watching this. It’s apparent to me that the band got more comfortable as they went through the show. They started out sparse in their playing which made your mix sound weird(er). As the songs go on, they settle in and play more as a unit. This happens a lot with bands that are put together for one event or who don’t play together very often. It takes a while to gel and it can feel like the mix is worse than it is. BTW, I don’t want to sound like I’m talking trash on the band. This happens to ALL bands. If I had a nickel for every time it’s happened to me I’d have a bunch of nickels to deal with. The band was awesome!

[@thesoundcouple]

Excellent point....that very same thing happened this past weekend with the next "All about the Hill" gig (it will be awhile before we get to posting this one). The difference between the sound checks and performance was quite noticeable and your points are just as applicable to production....there is a certain connection that not only the band makes with each other, but to also extend that to the production as well.

[@jambam6176]

40:45 It may not be the microphone... Most singers need to learn : *"Microphone Etiquette".* He is actually singing into the microphone off axis. Also... What's the constant humming sound at around 141Hz? It can be heard throughout the entire video. I'm sure that hum was also going through the P.A. System and mucking things up.

[@thesoundcouple]

On a gig after that, I switched him to a standard 58 capsule, and he noticed! The hum you are hearing is likely AC systems.

[@jundytouch]

Do you connect a wire direct from sub to mid-hi? Or they have separate line after passing through an external crossover? TIA.

[@thesoundcouple]

We use the internal crossovers that we are able to adjust through the Worx Control software that is made to control the CDL cabinets.

[@peterwelly]

Deffo can vouch for fatigue coming into play with this. Deffo dont think the mix sounds nearly as bad as you think it does. Some of what you referred to in the video, ie Being familiar with the band and the content they are going to do, will also feed into how you are able to effectively do sound for them - what they like, dont like, how they play (that all speeds up the soundcheck process - particularly from a blank slate, having to move monitors around and such is not helpful either.) I'd also say some of the moments that you missed in the mix can easily be accounted for given you dont know the material necessarily. The kick - whilst annoying is not the end of the world, although it does sound like either an issue with the drum, or the mic? possibly over compression - not over gating. Greatly enjoy your videos, keep it up! (from across the pond!)

[@thesoundcouple]

Thank you for your feedback! Learned a lot from making this and from hearing back from everyone. We have another shot with this group this summer...I think it will be better!

[@donkingkong1869]

you did a good job man. 1.is that no over head mic??? if no ovh then it will be tricki to add crash/ride/chinese 2. be carefull when pointing mic axis while placing on drum 36:38 (snare and tom rack) you can try to put kick drum mic inside kick drum. 3. try to explore your sound (tuning) because different place different temperature,building,outdor indoor and so so can make diferent effect to the mix. overall nice show. stay health and safe. we love you sound couple. im sorry if my english not so good.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thank you Don! Good points!

[@donkingkong1869]

@@thesoundcouple if u have dlms try to use it.

[@scottproaudio]

48:43 A lot of the issues you are picking up are really about mic choices and controlling dynamics. This a very different act than others you have previously posted imho. Familiarity with the acts dynamic and style is hard to gauge until you’ve done a gig with them. A different kick mic was a good choice, probably a difference vocal mic for the lead vocalist would have improved his overall balance. I’ll bet if you work with this act again things will come together much better after all it’s always a two way street. Thanks for the opportunity to comment 😊

[@thesoundcouple]

Agreed.

[@adrianmoore2440]

Always set your attack on the gate to the fastest possible setting. 0ms if it can..Any slower would take away alot of highs from the signal. The release was also a bit too slow

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Adrian - I will test that out!

[@hezekiahcharles6754]

The Beta 58 was quite sibilant.... besides that , the live mix was great. CDLs really shine outdoors.

[@Velkus96]

I find the beta 58 also very sibilant, especially with us northern europeans that have a harsh "s"

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Hezekiah - We really do like our CDL's. I realize there are a lot of good speaker choices that would support the following statement: It's almost as they make my job too easy...I just turn them up and they sound good. I never fight them which I can't say has been true for any other cabinet I have owned or used.

[@thesoundcouple]

Interesting perspective..

[@gavmurray7398]

first tip drums related. i wouldn't gate the drums at all for a band like this. i would have completely wiped off all the top end on that kick and then brought it up till there was just enough attack but this kind of music doesnt really need it it just wants a bottom end push. i used to use drum gates alot more in the past but i only really use them now if its a really straight rock band this allows the really dynamic drummers like this player to have complete control of their dynamics and not have some of their subtle stuff missing. his rack tom really projects you could have had that fader way down the drummer didnt smash his cybals so that tom would have well and trully been in the over heads and sounded more natural that way just bringing up the spot mic to give it some body support. tip 2 not sure if your mixer can do this but whenever i am on a desk where its possible i duplicate the inputs of acoustic guitars and vocals so they exist twice. 1 version is just for foldback and the other is for front of house. it allows you to have different channel eq for their on stage sound and out the front. also allows you to compress them out the front and not on stage compression on stage often messes with performers its better for them to hear it uncompressed on stage thats what they are used to hearing when they rehearse. so on the acoustics you can remove those problematic low resonant frequencies on stage but still have them out the front. it also means as yo9uu tweak things and make changes for teh front of house mix the onstage sound isnt changing for them. if your mixer cant do this get some xlr y split cables to you can split those channels out to 2 channels to do this at the stage box. i carry 6 in my gig bag just in case i need to do it on a desk that cant. tip 3 dont be affraid to make bold eq moves when its necessary. you can eq the beta 58 to sound more like a normal 58 but its funny i used to love beta 58s back when speakers where not as good as they are these days. they used to really help am old pa cut through and sound crisp but these days all the new systems are amazing so the betas often sount harsh i am cutting all that presence out of them when ever i have them on stage these days which is silly its the wrong mike not just for a lot of singers its the wrong mic for a lot of PA systems. recently had really good results using SE electronics V7 mics. they are reasonably priced sound a lot more nuetral and you get incredible gain before feedback on stage recommend giving them a try. mixing on a tablet one of disadvantage to a console is you have your headphones to isolate what keyboard lines are doing what as you can solo on the head phones. something to consider to achieve the same thing mixing on a tablet would be your own in ears kit that is asigned to your pfl solo so when you are out the front on a tablet you can still solo things in you ear and work out whats going on and you can also hear the in ears mixes and stage monitor sends and isolate problems really fast. hope some of that helps its great that you are humble enough to ask for advice thats how you get really good at mixing and really fast at solving problems. all the best you guys rock!

[@thesoundcouple]

Thank you - your comments are really helpful. This is great stuff!

[@daviduzdil5417]

For that kick drum. Sometimes is better to set it up as EXPANDER. For vocals. I dont think that Beta58 is wrong in this case, maybe you just have to change compressor settings (maybe i will let those voc inputs key themselves on "S-s" frequencies and then send them to voc grp with different compression settings). To OverHeads: I've been in those situations too... from that times i love to do: place OH's mic.....Its better to have them and dont use them, than dont have them and need them. To ACG's: I agree, you should PAN them. At all: It could be better, but it is not one of those gigs, what we (as sound engineers) fucked up!. I hope there is some way I can get in touch with you, so we can discuss more 🙂. Cheers from the Czech Rep.! :-)

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks for your feedback! You can always find our contact info in the about section!

[@daviduzdil5417]

@@thesoundcouple I am sorry, but I cant find any contact info 😞 maybe I am blind 😢

[@thesoundcouple]

@@daviduzdil5417 [e-mail]

[@hsaudio8964]

Good job guys. I find that when you have to tech a gig and foh a gig at the same time, your focus gets divided. Things get missed and second guessed. There's always 'if I coulda shoulda'. And time constraints kills gigs. Peace to you.

[@thesoundcouple]

Absolutely....we hope that our videos will help people process some of these factors so we can get better and avoid the same mistakes. We should always take the time to evaluate how we thought we did our job.

[@JamesEatonMedia]

I do not use Presonus stuff much, but is there a way to group things like vocals/band/drums in a DCA, VCA, or Group? Maybe that could help "glue" some of those elements together and give quick access to quickly add or take away the volume of those groups when things get out of balance. If the console has it, I like to put a multiband compressor on the vocal group. It helps to trim some of those pesky notes without scooping out too much on individual channels. Almost a safety valve to keep things from getting too wild during the set. Also, maybe a little more vocal effects could help? I always run a general reverb that is always on for vocals (and anything else that needs to be added to that FX channel) then I use a more ambient reverb and delay for the lead vocal and mix to taste throughout the songs. People do not realize how much work goes into making these events happen! I am impressed by how integrated all your stuff is and how thorough you are when it comes to getting everything up and running. I have not done much with Presonus, but these videos have me searching on Sweetwater (which is always dangerous...lol).

[@thesoundcouple]

Yes, we do use subgroups and will add some processing when needed. I guess our approach for one offs is to keep things as simple as possible. Unfortunately, the choices we made in order to keep it simple were not the correct ones.

[@JamesEatonMedia]

@@thesoundcouple I think you all still did a fantastic job! Also, putting yourself out there for feedback is really cool. I wish more people would do this because it's the best way to learn and grow. Keep it up (and keep making videos!)

[@thesoundcouple]

@@JamesEatonMedia Thanks James - We can do this because we trust you guys. You are right, it's a bit scary but the point is to promote the discussion. No matter what level or skill level you are at, there is always room for improvement.

[@jundytouch]

Do you use speakers or wedges that are passive? TIA.

[@thesoundcouple]

We use all powered speakers now. That's not a knock against using passive, it's just what ended up working best for us. That said, we are no longer great customers to our local speaker repair shop because we don't have any issues blowing a speakers with our powered cabinets. I think maybe one sub and that's been it.

[@user-vf6lp5re9m]

👍🏻👏🏼👍🏻👏🏼👍🏻👏🏼👍🏻

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks!

[@buddylove9484]

Something kept smoldering in the back of my mind...what if you used the old cabinets (instead of the CDL's) in a tight cluster of 2 to 3 on each side removing the extra side fills? I enjoy your vids' guys, thanks! Oh!...and turn down the ride tom. 😁

[@thesoundcouple]

Very interesting Buddy....that gives us something to think about as we have a bracket that accommodate two speakers....hmmm. Thanks for watching!

[@buddylove9484]

@@thesoundcouple Yeah…I recalled the the time you used the old mains to remedy a problematic tent gig which cleaned up the acoustics nicely, so the slap-Jack you we’re getting off the building in this vid’ …using an array might deliver a tighter result. 🤓

[@thesoundcouple]

@@buddylove9484 Thanks Buddy - We may try that the next time we are back.

[@runnindownadream2364]

Do you have any experience with the Presonus 16.4.2 as a live sound mixer for traveling band?

[@thesoundcouple]

Yes! We used to use one. It served us well!

[@elyamzon]

Do you run your sidedill full range? Or do you cut the low frequency?

[@thesoundcouple]

We will typically cut them at 100Hz.

[@elyamzon]

@@thesoundcouple thank you.

[@XIIMonkeysMusicGroup]

I still need a battery backup Furman, but can't afford it. The prices are insane!

[@thesoundcouple]

I completely agree... We paid $550 for ours in 2015.

[@srendyhr5844]

Among the other suggestions here, is gating to debate ... the lows are usually is usually the cause ... but what if all boxes except for the subs have cut off lows around 100 hz? I do think there is a point in this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nqGpfGSOhL-oi8k ... how you would pull it off with your equipment, should be unsaid, but I do in my mixes - have all amps/processors going to the wedges as if an sub should have been added. While FOH is taken through a outboard x-over where i take one sides top and the other sides lows - leaving the opposite unused, so I by panning the signal to the right side avoids anything going into the subs, and panning to the middle or a bit over sends the signal to both systems ... here obviously caring less about stereo (i still have send enough to keep the keyboard player in the illusion that everything supposingly are genuine stereo)

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks for sharing Soren! I have fallen behind on Dave videos!

[@frednimako]

Watching this video after a weekend of poor service.... Band came in late so no room for Soundcheck.. Buh at the end, it was good except the first hour...

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Fred - working through it all is what really counts!

[@georgesnow]

For slap back all you can do is roll off the higher offending frequencies but you don't want to remove too much and negatively impact the sound and tone ...short of acousticly treating every surface relocating the band. I use the old 16.4.2 and I've never had an issue dialing in kick gate ...however I would recommend lowering the the threshold rather than destroying the kick sound if you can't work out good settings for your scenario. I almost always use a stereo delay on acoustic guitars with around 35ms between sides to create stereo separation (wider than other instruments like keys) even if there's multiple guitars ...wouldn't want to remove one instrument from a side of the audience. Same with keys, always a stereo di For drum kit micing, I always use overhead(s) before even considering individual toms ... They are often picked up more than fine with that alone Always good to get vocals out front before worrying about other things if you have a limited soundcheck,( especially acoustic drums and bass Amps) ... Once you have loud and clear vocals the rest can fall in to place during the first song. I tend to use my ears first while mixing and not worry about any technical "rules" ..as long as it sounds good than I wouldn't consider anything I've done to be wrong.

[@thesoundcouple]

Appreciate your insights George...thanks!

[@TalentLe8159]

Aright for this issues that kick drums sounded slap and way to crazy and if there was more time to sound check use drum shields and not get reflections or the kick drum is not tuned well and that gate must be doing something to the kick and snare sometimes

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Talent - there wasn't anything about the drums that concerned me with how they sounded acoustically, I think I just used the wrong approach.

[@XIIMonkeysMusicGroup]

I much prefer the Sennheiser equivalent to the Beta58. I keep an SM58 and Sennheiser in my kit.

[@thesoundcouple]

We tend to prefer Shure, but it comes down to what works for you.

[@djdannysfm]

what software is that for the live recording

[@thesoundcouple]

For this gig, we used Capture which can used for all Presonus Series 3 consoles.

[@djdannysfm]

@@thesoundcouple ok thanks .. since i’ve been watching yall for quite a while i had to try out the presonus studio live 24r and it’s fantastic just that i didn’t know how to do the live recordings ..

[@thesoundcouple]

@@djdannysfm Capture is a very straight forward way of recording, but you can use any DAW software. We will use Studio One as well.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

Can you not have a Solar Plate Array on the roof of your van that feeds a storage battery that can be used to power concerts when no power sockets are to hand.

[@thesoundcouple]

😂🤣. That gig would be titled-“Sound Couple To the Rescue!”

[@gregmcveigh9966]

I heard hiccups. Real hiccups. Made my day!

[@thesoundcouple]

Guess who?

[@gregmcveigh9966]

@@thesoundcouple Hah! I'll just say that frequency-wise they were in the female vocal range.

[@thesoundcouple]

@@gregmcveigh9966 You got it!

[@gregmcveigh9966]

My overall critique would be that there is no ambience in the board recording. Maybe audience mics would have helped?

[@thesoundcouple]

Something to think about!

[@MrSamsstudios]

Sounds fine, don't use a kick gate unless you need it and that drum is tuned in a way you don't. Keys and gtrs seem hpf'd kinda high, mix is bright overall but overheads are a must outdoors. Of course if you didn't record no one would know

[@thesoundcouple]

Appreciate your thoughts...thanks for taking the time!

[@makingmusiconline2309]

My feeling is that the drums are too dynamic and really peak too high, so perhaps stick a compressor on that popping tom and then another on the toms plus kick that just pulls down the top of the dynamic range ... it really makes it sound more like a dance track (which is fine for something like Call Me Al, but even then (on my headphones) I'm getting hard thump thump thump coming in much higher than the rest of the signal. Just my $0.02 ... most of your other comments I agree entirely with (wider spread, bringing up the acoustic guitar, watching out for overloading the vocal microphones) I wonder if the position of the kick drum microphone ;is catching pumping air coming out of the kick or something as it almost sounds like it's clipping while obviously not overloading the strip.

[@thesoundcouple]

I noticed that too...I think if I was to do it again I would rely more on overheads and start by turning the gate off on the drums and go from there.

[@djviper-zn1bn]

its not your fault on not having a good sound from the drums here in phillippines the sound system provide all of band equipments so we kinda maintain the sound quality because its our equipments no matter how you touch those eq, compressor and gates if the drums bad you cannot do magic with that

[@thesoundcouple]

Thank you for insight. Interesting to know how things are done in other parts of the world.

[@prodigy2music]

You have ZLX? Thought you were strictly Presonus

[@thesoundcouple]

Those were provided by the church....good catch!

[@williamthesoundguybalestri1745]

At first glance, I think your sound problem was that stage. Very hollow and without any covering. You are probably getting a lot of sympathetic resonance kind of thing happening. Just gotta drop lots of low end off monitors and possibly mains to compensate.

[@thesoundcouple]

Agreed...and there is a considerable slap coming back from the building.

[@djkeithjust]

That make shift stage is a big problem for the kick drum

[@thesoundcouple]

The stage is surprisingly solid, but not ideal for sure.

[@djkeithjust]

It sounds (granted I’m listening I’ve YT) like the kick, especially after eq the kick drum reverberating through the mic stands. You might want to start carrying rubber garage mats for this situation!

[@thesoundcouple]

@@djkeithjust Even more work? Ha ha!

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

It is a shame they cut the last verse of The Sound Of Silence.

[@thesoundcouple]

Was that me? Anyway...we really enjoy sharing videos of live performances to the recordings. Unfortunately, KZbin's copyright engines have "improved" to the point now that it will pick up on others performing and copyright strike the video. These take a lot of time to make and will simply be more difficult for us to do these types videos in the future. We are really bummed about this.

[@alanphillips4734]

Hi Bart, I'm certain you would have done everything to ensure it sounded at its best. My opinion, the band for their size had far too many variables and some elements of their plot somewhat overly complicated, noticed the vocalist had turned his Beta58a off axis (almost vertical), would have caused a loss in the 'meatiness' of vox, if the live mix was fine then I say it's a win, capture can be manipulated later is often not a reflection of the tonailty and quality of the live reproduction in my own experience. Well done to you and Stacey!

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@wesleyjeanpierre5856]

😂😂

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks!

[@peelproductions1971]

Why do you gate the drums? In that context I would have thought it unnecessary. The drums sound well tuned, the gates are the start of your problems in my opinion.

[@thesoundcouple]

Agreed...because of the mindset "this is how we always do it".

[@nacoleon11]

Saludos do not stress probably you experienced ear fatigue, plus sometimes drummers don't tune right the drum, and Tom's sounds like cereal boxes on top of that the dynamic of the musician's performance affects all above,

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks for the feedback Nacho....agreed, it just wasn't technically a great day, but as others have commented, the show went well for everyone.

[@nacoleon11]

@thesoundcouple other people they would say was OK, but something there is something doesn't click and we know ourselves, I'm being in that situation 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 but I take an easy do some exercise on the jaw to open the ear canal 👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👌 is my humble advice 😉

[@bohemiatributo]

if u asked me, I'll tell you, it sounds pretty good. Being that is a cover band and they are good musicians you did a great job. You should be worried with a sucky band.. 2 thumbs up for the Sound Couple.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Fabian..agreed, it's not bad. However, it's always interesting to hear opinions...thankfully, we haven't heard from any studio engineers!

[@brianmoss5483]

I think you might be comparing it to the record. Might have busted out the extra subs.

[@thesoundcouple]

Yes...they are great songs! We have two circuits with about 100ft extension runs, so we have to be careful on how much we draw.

[@raibass5124]

Sounds like to was just down to preparation and fatigue. Your brain is tired, so your ears go. Happens to musicians all the time. You don't need us to do this Bart, you just needed a few hours sleep. That's my take on it

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks! We hope that sharing the experience helps people with their perspectives and for others to share theirs...good points.

[@INVESTIGATOification]

Deesser will solve problem with vocalist

[@thesoundcouple]

Will need to see if that is an available option on the Presonus...thank you.

[@restigouche3609]

I hear your concerns but I must note you were being thrown some unusual feeds. I'm always weary of acoustic guitars that are significantly processed and I don't believe the Kik "click" was of your creation. Don't be too hard on yourself Bart

[@thesoundcouple]

I also get nervous with bass players who have pedals! Thanks for your insights!

[@stevenquintero7343]

It sounds like the bass is lacking…

[@thesoundcouple]

Appreciate the comment....that is possible.

[@LstrO42]

Every time you do a board recording during a live performance you MUST take it with a grain of salt. It's sound reinforcement, not a studio session played live. Takes a whole other rig for that. You seem to have found the phasey suck mic distance from the drums....I've done it more to myself than I've ever done to others...it happens. The only tragedy is that amazing bass player having to play Simon and Garfunkel after warming up with Jaco!

[@thesoundcouple]

Wow - did not catch that, but he played the bass part on You Can Call Me Al better than anyone I have heard...nailed it! Understand your point about live/studio, but still can be used as a teaching aid and provide insights that you would never get otherwise. I am still memorized by power of all this technology. When I started out, we thought it was cool to get a cassette recording off the board!

[@LstrO42]

@@thesoundcouple I still have my Tascam reel to reel in my studio, so I understand where you're coming from. I just went digital last year, and have been recording snippets of sets here and there then bringing them here and doing some critical listening through my altecs. Keep up the good work!

[@dustinthiessen]

on an outdoor gig especially, I'd argue that your board mix should be able to sound like a record. maybe not necessarily on a one off, but in a touring situation that shit gets dialed in.

[@LstrO42]

@@dustinthiessen it can...but what both of us have said can be very contextual. Meaning it is very venue dependant . We need to keep our number one priority the quality of the live mix. Those large tours are also employing a separate recording engineer usually in a truck outside the venue and using a transformer isolated split. I'm not disagreeing you shouldn't have a good mix outdoors, but we're not all dealing with a natural 15ms slapback delay either. Those phone recordings had every bit of detail that was lacking in the recordings because the live mix was good. Adding a overhead might put it over the edge and make things worse just for the recordings sake. In this situation (do some college stuff and you'll find out), he did exactly the right call.

[@brianwilliams4254]

No one can really say anything. Your mix is built on Atmosphiric conditions or over all surroundings. You are over thinking it. Its not an inline mixer like a actual studio console. So it is what it is ya know. Not even pros can get it flawless all the time.

[@thesoundcouple]

Appreciate you taking the time to share your insights...thanks!

[@brianwilliams4254]

@@thesoundcouple Where are you guys located. I am actually thinking of getting the presonus 16r for my smaller project. But I had a bunch of questions for ya about the presonus stuff.

[@thesoundcouple]

@@brianwilliams4254 We are based out of Minnesota - I know the 16r is pretty much the same as it's big brothers with some limitations of its smaller footprint, but we don't actually own that mixer.

[@brianwilliams4254]

@@thesoundcouple I know you dont own that mixer. But figuring its just less channels its the same so to speak overall. So I was just looking to know how much ya liked it etc.

[@thesoundcouple]

@@brianwilliams4254It's been a journey, but the firmware is really stable now. It appears that there has been some glitches in the manufacturing process, but Presonus will support you if you have any problems. I would suggest really testing the mixer out beforehand to make sure you don't have any hardware problems with it if you gig with it. Otherwise, the issues you see are usually out of control of the mixer (wireless, user error) and ours are rock solid and sound great! We have used our for countless shows and are happy with them.

[@matthewstevens7486]

Bart your too hard on yourself, 99% of the audience would not have noticed or probably cared, your live mix sounded as well as you could of expected given the fact that this is a new band to work with, i have always found my recorded mix sounds nothing like the live, i do agree with the gates on the kick drum and more than likely all drums, they can be tricky to setup, but you do always strive to be better, that's the main thing. Last point, did you give value for money......i say yes you did.

[@thesoundcouple]

Thanks Matthew! We are hoping as a reminder that we should always be thinking about ways to improve. It can really be easy to move on the next gig and forget about it...in our case, we capture ours on video and recording and share them with everyone!

[@1pilotsteve]

Bart and Stacey.. when I Tech a show,meaning when the band sends me their stage layout, I advise the band when stage load in is. For example.ple I arrive for my load in and set up 930 and allow myself 2.5 hours for the setup and line check of my equipment. I advise the band that band load in and sound check is 11 to 12...for a 1 pm.start .ok? This prevents what happened to you at this gig.. I have had musicians show up before me at gigs wanting to put their drum kit up on the stage. I simply make it clear that I must have my own window for my setup up.Another thing is that all these people,usually musicians, want to take your time and chat and before a gig.. I know they are probably friends that you haven't seen I a while..ok but when this happens I politely excuse myself and say we can get later..

[@jonhaney8139]

I have had past events with kick drum issues. I have found that if the kick is sounding what I call fwappy without mic'd up it will be a bear to get it sounding good through foh. Sometimes it is what it is.

[@gavmurray7398]

i do this where possible too. it sometimes sucks when you are working for a flat rate cause you are extending the hours you work but i would rather do an extra hour for the same money and have a great gig than not do the extra hour and have a terrible time chasing problems through shows every day of the week

[@thesoundcouple]

Completely see your point....we do run pretty tight on time for these along with smaller budgets, so we are always walking a thin line. I think there has been a couple of times where we over ruled on some of the timelines, but then it's just us spending more time on us.

[@thesoundcouple]

This is always the million dollar question...especially if it's a gig where you are already feeling squeezed.

[@thesoundcouple]

Agreed, it just didn't sound bad by itself. In some cases, I will go behind the kit and hit the drums myself just so I get a better idea of what I am dealing with...especially the kick.