The Spinning Drone Paradox - Part 1

[@rctestflight]

Such a cool idea! Now to make a super fast one axis brushless gimbal so it can be used for FPV

[@LS-xb2fh]

"Simply" build an optical derotator ;). It uses a rotating assembly of mirrors (or a dove prism) to get a stationary image of a rotating object (or the opposite in your case: stationary surroundings, rotating camera).

[@mrreddog]

Or just fix the video in post with flow state.

[@christofbeaupoil8035]

A rotation compensator like this? kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJy9ZainmZJlqNk - that way you can also include a swash plate for cyclic pitch :) Can't wait to see what you have planned for directional control!/cb

[@LS-xb2fh]

@@christofbeaupoil8035 The concept in your linked video seems very interesting, but I meant an optical image derotator. US patent US3625612A Fig. 7 shows the version with mirrors I was referring to. These are used for vibration measurement of rotating objects (e.g. Polytec PSV-A-440) and in telescopes to eliminate motion blur due to the earths rotation (e.g. "Barboza, 2018, Design and Prototyping of the Image Derotator for the ELT Infrared Instrument MICADO").

[@christofbeaupoil8035]

@@LS-xb2fh Also a cool idea! But I was trying to answer to @rctestflight's comment about a brushless gimbal. That might be useful for everything that can not be stabilized optically :) /cb

[@NicholasRehm]

A little correction at 00:35 60 degree tilt from vertical results in requiring twice the thrust to match the initial vertical thrust component, not 45 degrees. You’d think I’d know my vectors by now….

[@Sekir80]

Yeah, I frowned a bit, but your concept is so amazing I'm still happy I clicked! Great experiment!

[@NicholasRehm]

@@Sekir80 thanks for being patient with my annoying error lol. A good lesson in not rushing through the editing process or else things like that go overlooked

[@Sekir80]

@@NicholasRehm Don't worry about it! I await your next chapter of experiments. :)

[@Chris-oj7ro]

That's news to me and I'm sure it is to others also. 45 degrees seems like it would be the right answer. Care to quickly explain why 60 degrees produces half thrust for the rest of us?

[@Jwmbike14]

@@Chris-oj7ro if you recall F=MA, F being Force, M=mass, A= Acceleration. Apply it to F_net = MG•sin30°, where G is "Acceleration due to Gravity." If you recall your unit circle, sin30° is equal to 1/2. So essentially (weight on earth)/2.

[@behnamjz4579]

The last part when it glides forward like an airplane was so cool. This thing has so many flying options.

[@davialves5970]

It reminds me Darth Vader's space ship. Imagine if he could somehow get independent servos for each wing/blade so the bottom ones would act like conventional wings and the top one like a rudder.

[@buckstarchaser2376]

@@davialves5970 Servos can do this pretty easily. It's actually harder to gear the booms together like he did, but it arguably saves weight and complexity.

[@michaelbuckers]

@@davialves5970 You actually don't need to do that. Simply tilting the entire vehicle accomplishes the same thing.

[@kooshanjazayeri]

yes, totally reminded me of the Lambda-class T-4a shuttle from starwars

[@Tsnafu]

This is a remarkable breakthrough - a 30 watt hover. As far as I know, the longest continuous flight for a multirotor is 175 minutes (happy to be corrected if anyone knows differently) - you could knock up a big Li-ion pack and claim the un-official world record (though you'd probably need 6S and more efficient, larger props)

[@NicholasRehm]

Tempted to go a little bigger and try this out!

[@jackwiedemann]

How is "multirotor" defined in that world record? I mean a helicopter also has 2 props and it drives them directly instead of moving the bigger one by smaller ones... I would guess that's more efficient?

[@someonespotatohmm9513]

@@jackwiedemann It wastes energy by not rotating whatever is rotating the helicopter. And when using counterrotation you artificialy limit the blade length. So my gues is that theoreticaly a flying prop is more efficient.

[@Jessarcobe]

Wowzers.....

[@jackwiedemann]

@@someonespotatohmm9513 hm interesting question. I mean only having to drive 2 motors instead of 4 has efficiency improvements too, but there's also the added benefit of the increase in efficiency with incoming air in these props. Hovering one big single rotor like a helicopter will also not result in incoming air... So it's actually a more complex problem, but i think you're right.

[@Bernardo1579]

I am astounded at how you can share your findings and teach new concepts in a fun way at the same time. Great job!

[@NicholasRehm]

Really appreciate your comment

[@ekinteko]

@@NicholasRehm The concept actually comes from a children's toy. It's a stick that you attach to a small propeller, and you rub it in your palms which causes it to spin, lift up and hover like a helicopter. Putting that on a drone makes it more efficient, just like you touched on, the whole unit becomes one large, slow spinning, "passive" propeller. Also, having tri-drone is a more efficient design than a quad-drone. You basically can have three larger active-propellers, rather than four smaller ones. So these two attributes fit together nicely. The reason why people opt for the quad-drone setup is because it is actually more simple, cheaper, and easier to navigate (you can assign each side as front/back/left/right). Each of the four arms can be rigid and controlled by a simple on/off switch. A tri-drone needs more tweaks, and have each arm needing to pivot and spin at different rates. As for energy source, fossil fuel is still better method at the medium to heavy weight. Electrical is only viable at the super lightweight scale. Not sure about nuclear, we don't have the technology for it (small nuclear engine). The best compromise is using solar energy for splitting water, generating hydrogen, using solar energy to compress it, then having hydrogen engine for helicopter flight. It can scale to heavyweight sizes, and is based on a renewable source.

[@zootarootoot]

Very interesting. I love how 3d printing has enabled R&D and exploring engineering and ideas on a mass level.

[@shukrantpatil]

anyone in any part of the world can create cool stuff now ( which could make a huge change in the field they are working on

[@haukesattler446]

I couldn't fail to notice another way to improve the efficiency of your setup: Just let it spin in the other direction! As any winged aircraft, your drone suffers from wing tip vortices due to induced drag. These vortices reduce the wing's ability to generate lift, so that it requires a higher angle of attack for the same lift, which tilts the total aerodynamic force rearwards and increases the drag component of that force. In the flights you showed us, the propellers were turning in the same direction as the vortices, hence enhancing them. Now if the drone spins in the other direction the wing tip vortices switch direction too. Since the spinning direction of the prop would stay the same, those vortices would be reduced by the prop spin. The effect would be even more pronounced if the props would be at the very tip of the wing. See: Chance Vought V-173 Chance Vought XF5U Bell-Boeing V-22 On all these planes the outside tip of the props were moving downward.

[@saulerius]

In addition, it could be torodal design

[@davidthomson8010]

where would u suggest I learn more about what u've said?

[@1u8taheb6]

@@davidthomson8010 Wherever you are right now is fine man, just gotta start! Good luck!

[@Good_Hot_Chocolate]

​@@saulerius toroidal*

[@willinton06]

@@1u8taheb6 useless answers 101

[@survivaloptions4999]

You, sir - and I mean this sincerely - have finally discovered a practical use for the tip jet... rotor... whatever. Super impressive.

[@NicholasRehm]

Thanks! We’ll see where we can take this idea…

[@ARVash]

@@NicholasRehm bigger! for more efficiency :P

[@diveforknowledge]

@@NicholasRehm How does the power requirement compare to a single motor running the larger propeller? In other words, could this concept be used to improve efficiency of propeller aircraft assuming the fuel routing issues could be resolved? Edit: alternatively, could this be used to improve the viability of electric prop planes?

[@samuelglad2695]

@@NicholasRehm I feel like this flies very similar to what a classic UFO would, a few more propellers/wings shaped to curve downward near the tip and a stabilized ring in the center for a camera that doesn't spin and you have it. course, I have no idea what shaping the wings differently would do

[@minhducnguyen9276]

@@diveforknowledge They tried it in WW2 and the cold war. It didn't really work because back then they didn't have fly by wires and LiDAR. So landing the plane was very risky. It's like parking a car without rear mirror. It's the main reason this kind of air plane design was discarded. To get it into the air is not the problem, to get it back to the ground is. Maybe modern computer assisted flight control can help fix it.

[@crisper1614]

You know, like a helicopter! Fun fact, there have been helicopters that had their main rotor propulsion take place at the end of the rotors by little rockets. These tip jet Copters came in several different formulations. Including ram jets! You’re essentially recreating this basic idea. Thrust at the end of the rotors! Another benefit of propulsion at the tip of the rotors is a lack of torque applied to the center mass. This makes it not necessary to have tail rotors on these types of craft!

[@icantseethis]

Came here looking for somebody mentioning a helicopter and here you are. Somebody else on here made a comment about separate servos for rotor tilt and I think they stumbled upon the cyclic.

[@florabee9283]

There used to be advertisements in the back of magazines like Popular Science that sold plans for one-man helicopters that used pulse jets on the rotor tips. Apparently they did work but the pulse jets were so loud that they were no fun. Pulse jets are simple and cheap and precession is not a problem, but damn they are stupid loud.

[@icantseethis]

@@florabee9283 pulse jets are a great way to convert potential chemical energy into noise.

[@rcpmac]

Attach razor blades to the trailing edge of those “wings” and your kid will volunteer to cut the lawn.

[@jamesbizs]

There is a KZbinr that already made that

[@iforce2d]

I love it! Now make a gigantic quadcopter with four of these and see how much it can lift. Seems like you already have good feedback about the yaw rate, which could be fed into another PID for the quad control. An added benefit is you could adjust the 'cyclic' or average pitch of all corners so that the rev/s aims for the minimum of the blue line in the graph at 5:52. It would be hard to program, expensive, and as agile as a school bus. Yay!

[@NicholasRehm]

This is so insane that I just might do it LOL

[@aerialcombat]

Oh i just saw watched this video and thought i thought of this first, i hope you do this though

[@KwongKan]

@@NicholasRehm you're using a 4-in-1 ESC anyway, so, why not 4th motor?

[@jackwiedemann]

@@NicholasRehm well it won't be more efficient than strapping 4 bigger motors directly to the bigger props, will it?

[@mrreddog]

@@NicholasRehm Is there enough space for 4 pinion gears? Suppose ya could just go bigger?

[@jandro2422]

Its insane how you managed to apply such a simple concept to such a popular platform and create something which i hadnt seen before. Very well made design and nicely explained too

[@GiesbertNijhuis]

Great design and explanation. Try removing 1/2 or even 2/3 of the wing on the inside. The inside part of your rotor-wings are more weight than lift.

[@kekogonzalez677]

Why?

[@mtbsieppo]

@@kekogonzalez677 the inside has lower wind speed so it generates less lift

[@GiesbertNijhuis]

@@mtbsieppo exactly

[@montithered4741]

@@mtbsieppo That depends on the design of the airfoil, camber, taper, twist, and angle of attack. Elliptical lift across a propellor or rotor is possible, as well as other lift profiles.

[@xFD2x]

@@mtbsieppo Still, removing that part of the wing introduces a vortex.

[@raztaz826]

Really neat! In forward flight, if the arms were all on separate servos, then two could rotate in opposite directions inward to make a plane with reverse sweep, using the third motor to keep the tail up.

[@NicholasRehm]

That’s a really cool idea. V2 might need to have separate servos per wing now

[@JMMC1005]

@@NicholasRehm what about using the current design (but non spinning) in fast forward flight, with pitch angle near 90 degrees? This might be what you meant at the end of the video, but maybe you were talking about spinning forward flight. It won't be passively stable, but it would be interesting to see if you are able to hold altitude with similar efficiency. Great project.

[@sysbofh]

@@JMMC1005 It could be. He flew like an inverted "Y", but he could have flew it as an upright "Y". This way the two arms up would provide lift, and the third arm down would be there just for propulsion. It wouldn't even need to move the arms independently: just put them at 90 degrees, and use engine speed to control the drone.

[@aby0ni]

The same thought hit me at 8:20, it looked like a plane..

[@suigintouivanhoe1167]

@@NicholasRehm Probably two of this drones could be connected on one central axis, and up one turns in one side, second one - in the other, so axis is somewhat stable and load can be attached to it. Would be kinda similar to helicopter with coaxial rotors.

[@philippepopulaire601]

Impressive! I wonder how the "big propeller mode" would perform in horizontal flights

[@samanthms123]

The angular momentum would give it excellent stability in extreme weather conditions. Like a spinning bullet shot out of a rifle.

[@BVLVI]

Imagining horizontal big prop mode.... Wow. That just kept my imagination busy for the past hour.

[@woodyhunt]

I could get interested in investing in same design and larger assembly.

[@Mira_linn]

@@BVLVI you whould have no lift though as all your trust is either cancelling each other out of giving you forward momentum

[@250tegra]

Hi Phillippe, 'Big Propeller Mode' will have most of the characteristics of a Helicopter, so it will need to balance the advancing/retreating blades lift, etc. Aaand for manoevering, Cyclic pitch control, perhaps?

[@nills2gills811]

Toroidal shaped propellers create less eddy at the wing tip where the air foil stops, maybe this can be used on the macro and micro propellers to harness even more energy, stellar video! You’re onto something big and we don’t even realize it yet

[@s28400]

Wow, this is incredible! I am imagining a future version of this with a payload section underneath that is counter-rotated to be kept stationary. This could be super applicable to long-distance/payload flights with sensitive cargo or cameras. Can't wait for the next video!

[@battlewing221]

can you explain your first statement little bit more ??

[@BootyRealDreamMurMurs]

@@battlewing221 Well basically, what they meant is that they are inagining a version of the drone in the video where it is used as a carrier drone, Now you might be wondering, how can a drone that spins be something that carries objects carefully and safely? What this dude just said in his first statement is that hes imagining a version that fixes such an issue, and how it iss fixed is by attaching a contraption that will contain the objects that are to be transported to places, and that contraption is designed in a way that rotating it doesnt really rotate the inside, such mechanism and technology already exist, you might as well think of it as a box and larger version of the bearings that was inserted in the middle section of the drone that allows rotation on the inside that was shown in the video in the "showing the process of building the drone" part.

[@battlewing221]

@@BootyRealDreamMurMurs yes thanks,

[@mikestaihr5183]

Maybe not "counter-rotated" as much as just stationary. How about the payload section on a bearing with an internal gyroscope?

[@battlewing221]

@@mikestaihr5183 yea a bearing design would be better i think

[@gilbertplays]

When I saw the winged version, i never saw it as a paradox as the wings itself is already pushing down static air providing lift.

[@mozarteanchaos]

yeah, it didn't really seem like a paradox to me either - seemed quite obvious that drone + propellers angled to make it spin + wings angled in the direction it's spinning = more lift for less energy. if i had to guess, the title/claim might be an example of "experts on a topic either drastically over- or under-estimate average layperson's knowledge", or perhaps it's based on reactions from people with less intuitive understanding of how wings work, if that makes sense. ...or, maybe the "paradox" is more to do with how much more efficient it is than a wingless drone? in that case i don't know nearly enough to comment on that lol no judgement towards OP one way or another, ofc, just theorizing a bit

[@jeffl4802]

Yes and no. It is not pushing down. Its using the same principle as airplane wings. Air moving faster over one side of the wing causes lift. Its basically a hover jet with helicopter props.

[@TheLK641]

@@mozarteanchaos I think the "paradox" in the title is "less power spent going up => drone goes farther up", which is just a paradox for the tiny propellers themselves and not the entire drone.

[@mozarteanchaos]

@@TheLK641 hm, that seems pretty plausible!

[@RB-bd5tz]

​@@jeffl4802 Yes, it is pushing air down, just like a ceiling fan. Planes and helicopters obtain lift by equal-and-opposite-reaction: push against air; air pushes against you; if you're not secured, up you go. A positive angle of attack for a wing or horizontal rotor blade ensures that this effect is constant. Thus, even flat or symmetrically curved wings can provide lift. What you're talking about is the Bernoulli effect, which is real, and can also contribute to lift if the wing is curved (concave down), since the faster air over the top will be at a lower pressure than the slower air flowing under the bottom. But note that this does not "suck" the wing up; there is no such thing as suction. It just creates differential pressure that pushes the wing from the high-pressure area below to the low-pressure area above.

[@Charlie-Oooooo]

Nice! In forward flight you get some lift from the two lower blade/wings! (I propose blades + wings = blings😄) Maybe you can use the top one as rudder. In fwd flight, looks like a Imperial Lambda-class shuttle!

[@khango6138]

Not sure if I'm getting old, but seeing such beautiful data and nicely labeled plots made me happy... Subbed!

[@patrickanquetil7937]

Extremely impressive! This makes me think of a German concept aircraft designed at the end of WW2. It would use 3 jet engines in the same configuration as yours to take off and land vertically. It never reached the prototyping phase though. Here is a link for more info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Triebfl%C3%BCgel

[@NicholasRehm]

I want to make one of these eventually!

[@gregorycherni9005]

@@NicholasRehm contra rotating

[@korkee1111]

That thing was the epitome of WW2 German Grandiose.

[@robtristram8395]

That concept was also used in the famous Fairey Rotodyne

[@samernajia]

That was the TriebFlugel (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Triebfl%C3%BCgel). The US had the Pogo which is not the same idea but also was a VTOL. Landing was always a problem since the pilot couldn't see what he was doing as he set down.

[@NathanielHatley]

The prop taking off without the rest of the drone made my day. 😂

[@XBullitt16X]

Yep, was pretty funny to watch haha.

[@aviatoFPV]

Now I'm envisioning a future where we fly around sitting in the middle of a giant prop.

[@robinbennett5994]

Isn't that a helicopter?

[@KangJangkrik]

@@robinbennett5994 yup, helicopter with three tails and wing for each tail

[@pauljs75]

A triebflugel that goes from being a crazy 80 year old concept to something that actually works.

[@gravitomagneticpower]

Yes and not only Triebflugel but Flugelrad as well...

[@gravitomagneticpower]

And Flugkriesel...

[@lloydrmc]

Nicholas, You have a real gift for making incredibly complex subjects understandable. Thank you so much for making all of this - especially your flight control system - open source.

[@NicholasRehm]

Follow me on twitter for occasional exclusive project updates (and memes): twitter.com/Nicholas_Rehm

[@Ra_dio_Iberico_ea4ggc]

Tienes poca idea de la propulsión electromagnética de los Condensadores Asimétricos, llámalo también electrodinámica Te lo imaginas? Pues funciona igual pero tanto con el Aire como sin aire o más allá de la atmósfera.

[@downswingplayer9712]

Did you create the design yourself or get it from somewhere else?

[@steveperreira5850]

Absolutely superb creativity, prototyping, and testing. As a design engineer with many inventions and research papers, I highly commend your work. I’m not in aeronautics, but I understand the energy situation, and you are doing yeoman work! Thank you so much, Steve

[@Watcher69w]

which course did you stuyed

[@Platypus_Warrior]

I imagine a similar drone with free rotating camera in the center. The drone would be able to use two of the wings like an airplane (third wing as a tail) and hover like you do. This could be the future of personal aircraft haha

[@culpritdesign]

This is a profoundly simple and wonderful design. I want to see more

[@chrisrb7876]

I’d consider the copter to be a quad. Technically when you’re “spin hovering” you turn the arms into a giant prop. If that makes sense.

[@NicholasRehm]

haha true

[@jonsimpson6240]

Tri plus one maybe?

[@vilyam]

​@@NicholasRehmI would have a two rotating quads on top of each other.

[@timi707_1]

It would be cool if you put a swashplate in the centerbody and used cyclic for directional control. No need for anti-torque because the rotors self propelled. If the battery was in the non rotating centerbody you'd need some kind of power coupling to deliver power to the tip propellers which might be hard to do, brushes or something I guess. Reminds me a bit of one of the human powered helicopter attempts to win the sikorsky prize (before they all went quadcopter, the cal poly one from 89 i think)

[@southtexasspecials175]

That could be done with slip rings. Like on a car Steering wheel n such.

[@mrkiky]

Then you'd kinda have a helicopter with tip propellers on the big propeller. I guess you'd need a way to brake the rotor so that it can still function as a tricopter in order to be able to choose between high efficiency and high stability, which I'm guessing is the whole purpose of this.

[@_..-.._..-.._]

@@southtexasspecials175most cars use clock springs because they only need 3 turns max

[@shiheeb7333]

Holy crap dude... I can't remember the last time I saw something this brilliant! Is this an existing concept I just happened to never hear of, or did you come up with it on your own? Either way, you u got a sub from me! I can't wait to see more!

[@NicholasRehm]

There are other spinning drones that leverage the efficiency boost of the tip-driven blade configuration, but none that can do regular multirotor hover, spinning hover, and forward flight all in one to my knowledge

[@megatesla]

Shibeeb, there was at least one toy "drone" that used this concept in the mid to late 2000s. Those toys could spin hover (no normal hover) and fly forward/back and side to side as seen from the pilot. It used an infrared controller and pulsed the motors at the right times for directional flight.

[@shiheeb7333]

@pyropulse why don't you use your gigabrain to go create something impressive or help others instead of insulting strangers on the Internet? I doubt this is less efficient than a traditional helicopter for a number of reasons: 1. There's no fuselage obstructing air flow. Instead, the prop wash is moving air across an airfoil which aids lift. 2. There's no tail rotor needed to overcome the rotation from a traditional helicopter design. Newton's third law dude... "Equal and opposite reaction". If you have to impart force into a fuselage to keep it from rotating, how efficient is that really?

[@donovanreid427]

@pyropulse old brain🥴

[@dozer1642]

@pyropulse I too am amazed at the amazement over this design. Over a hundred and ten years ago, a man thought of and was doing research on “tip jet” design that used compressed air to spin the blades of a “helicopter.” It’s not exactly the same as this, but it’s the same general principle that has been tried and tested throughout the last one hundred years. I love this video of a homemade design that works amazing, with actual data to show its efficiency, but come on people, this isn’t a new invention. Idiocracy wasn’t a comedy.

[@HeruVision-Thrive-Coaching]

Additionally let's all take a hard pause to admire the pure beauty of this 8:16 ! THIS IS DOPE!!!!!

[@RichardBronosky]

The whole video I was wondering if he would do this!

[@oadka]

Great idea, ive been dreaming about stuff like this for some time. Also the footage of the prop flying off cracked me up

[@NicholasRehm]

The worst part is that I didn’t have a wrench or pliers in my car to re-tighten it. So I had to use my jumper cable clamps lol

[@bokusimondesu]

@@NicholasRehm time to get a good little multitool 😜

[@sypeiterra7613]

@@NicholasRehm can't be worse than when I had to use a pair of sticks pinched together lol

[@Cythil]

I used to play around with this in Kerbal Space Program. Maybe I should go back and explore the idea now that I know there are better controls I can use. You explain it well in your video. Well done!

[@jasonsoto5273]

That's pretty sick! And I love how it looks like an imperial shuttle when it was flying forward!

[@Lunym]

i wonder if two wings can be turned oposite directions and the third be used as stabilization like a plane's tail. it would be so weird but so cool see it flying like that

[@volatile100]

The idea of substantially less energy made me immediatly think of the Focke-Wulf Triebflügel plan. Vertical take off jet thing, but instead of normal jet thrust, it had 3 engines placed at the ends of wings that spin around the center of the fuselage. Nothing beyond the initial concept was made, but it did make its way into the Captain America movie

[@spinnetti]

yep, literally the same idea, just 80 years ago....

[@ujjuwr2785]

I want to watch more about the capabilities of this design. So nice of you to share it publicly.

[@wolfgangh.7027]

A fantastic good video! No intro music, no music at all! This is how I love informative videos!

[@DignanDerkin]

this sort of reminds me of the so called "engineless helicopter" called the XH-26 jeep jet, that was basically a one person cockpit with a tiny tail boom, single bladed tail rotor, and a dual-bladed main rotor that had a pulse jet engine attached to each end, such a weird yet interesting piece of technology, and this one just brings it to whole new levels of both

[@JayHeartwing]

That helicopter is still on my mind since seeing it on the internet for years. Tip jet helicopters are always interesting. The only issues I think are the noise, and the gas consumption (this one's the one I'm not sure) but if we can make a helicopter like that it would be awesome since they're simple, and doesn't need tail rotors to fly.

[@technicolorskies5432]

I was looking for this before I posted my own comment lol

[@johnaweiss]

@@JayHeartwing Won't gas consumption be significantly less than a standard copter, as explained in this vid?

[@Varue]

@@johnaweiss It is more efficient to just use a rotor spun by torque from a motor.

[@aaronforth8693]

My first view of your videos, and I am now very interested in the next generation of developements this design causes. I am a nerd without any budget at the time and vuicariously live through such content, Thank you sir for sharing.

[@mechadense]

3:28 - Let's catch it gently (reaching for it). Drone: A sharp whirring "No!" your not touching me ground-hand & Full throttle escape to the sky. 😂

[@Bolognabeef]

Physics, engineering, CS, cinematography, editing, chill voice this guy got talent

[@sphygo]

This seems like a really cool idea for drone photography. Yes the camera spinning would pose a challenge, but the extra flight time would be a huge draw while still being able to hold position, slowly move around with that efficiency, and even fly like a plane

[@Myrzghe]

For lidar drones the rotation would not be that much of an issue. Doesn't really matter how the laser hits the ground as long as the instruments can geolocate it properly

[@greggotheeggo2354]

The camera spinning would prob cancel out the energy savings as it’s turning the exact same amount inverse

[@GodmanchesterGoblin]

@@greggotheeggo2354 It's not really a function of the speed of rotation. The camera support would impose little mechanical resistance, and any air resistance on the camera would actually help to keep the camera from rotating, so the camera stabilisation would not require that much power. The power required to spin the propellers and pull the (much larger) three bladed wing through the air would be significantly greater.

[@SyntheticFuture]

Maybe have the center hub in a bearing so it doesn't spin with the rest of the drone. Or have the camera on a bearing so it can't spin with the body of the drone. Framing would be a bitch though 😅

[@chucknaussie]

I am not sure the spinning is any real problem and may in fact be a benefit. It would give an automatic panorama view with a fixed frame view derived computationally. Think how synthetic aperture radar improves image resolution as the camera traverses terrain giving result likea much larger apparent lens. Numerous satellites spin to cover a larger field of view and specific images are collected with the object comes into view. All this is done by software and don't need to be mechanically corrected on the drone itself.

[@anthonyechevarria5485]

A flying propeller. So genius! You just got my subscription. Can’t wait to see what comes next.

[@Rider0fBuffalo]

So awesome! What a great solution for climbing and descending incredibly efficiently!

[@NicholasRehm]

This guy gets it

[@TheGrinningSkull]

7:53 is the most creative way I’ve been asked to subscribe. I’ll allow it.

[@foolwise4703]

Wow, suddenly this "simple" design looks like a prime VTOL configuration!

[@chrispollard6568]

You mean a tip powered helicopter like the Fairey Rotodyne? From 1957

[@cameronbarnes5882]

@@chrispollard6568 that's a mad helli / plane for its time

[@tezlashock]

Dude this is awesome. You've stumbled onto something that could change drones forever. Just isolate that center with a camera or a payload and you've got yourself a promising platform!

[@michaelrechtin]

As always impeccable work man. It’s like a tip jet rotor but so much better!

[@Haawser]

My thoughts exactly. I wonder if you could make a highly efficient 'personal helicopter' by replacing the tip jets with electric motors and small props ? Or ducted fans maybe ?

[@mefobills279]

@@Haawser Thay was my first thought too.

[@ethandavis7310]

Your comparison to a

[@jordansime6684]

When I was about 12/13 I built this *exact* setup (albeit in a quad rotor configuration) in a game called SimplePlanes. I wasn't measuring efficiency or anything, it was just fun to play around with the game's physics. Super cool video!!

[@fabiovezzari2895]

Descent could be very efficient, you would need to store momentum thanks to the air the drone meets during descent....at the end of the descent you change the wings angle, so that you transform the drone from turbine that has stored the potential energy in to a propeller that pushes it self upwards to slow down. I also wonder how a spinning drone like that could understand its horizontal direction of travel while the entire system is spinning, in a future model

[@dfgaJK]

0:50 actually 1.414x thrust required?

[@thepain321]

I’ve had this idea for years. Good to see it being tried. Believe it can work. My idea has the props tilt separate from the central props tilt. The central prop would just be on a ultra bearing. It made me think the drone motorized props would provide the speed and stability control. While the central gave the thrust. Which was regulated thru the motors the same. With tilt control on the central prop I thought the drone would be able to launch into a zero g 180 flip. Then tilt the central prop, launching back up instead of down. Don’t know what purpose it would serve besides fun. 🤷

[@rex8255]

Interesting! You might look into the designs of some helicopters that had various propulsion methods at the tips of the blades. I recall seeing one a few years ago that was still flying!

[@250tegra]

Yes, Rex - somewhere (iirc) there is a 'prop-copter' site, which references the H.E.P.A.R.S. approach as well as some _very_ early work by Curtis? Hang on . . . Found it! Searched on 'propcopter' , also there is a Wikipedia page on the massive Curtiss-Bleecker Helicopter from 1930.... I have a long-dead toy with 2 articulated blades and a cross-piece with two motors/props that flew reliably back in the day . . . Interesting!

[@rex8255]

@@250tegra Interesting! But, ummm.... what does H.E.P.A.R.S. stand for? I couldn't find it online (at least it was turning into more work than asking you)

[@stefanbachrodt7072]

So obvious. I'm astonished at the fact that I've never thought of this, bloody well done!! PS: my findings in sustaining longer flight times without foils were as follows. 1- larger props 2- more torque (less kvs) 3- higher voltage Those in combination have taken some designs from a 25min to a 90min flight! Larger props wouldn't work well with your design however they do as a rule of thumb and should also still work great with a maximum rotation of 45deg. Wonder what would happen if you incorporated this current design with a 10' - 3 blade prop powered by a 100kv motor in the center!? 🤪

[@nyxdoc2801]

you are the best. I am from Iran and have students in high school. The highlight of our week is in the evenings of every friday when we all sit and learn aeronautical concepts from you. We also learn English from you !! Thank you so much. we love you here in Iran. The students saved $22 to donate to you but they refused our donation because we are from Iran. We love you

[@raztaz826]

Nicholas: "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!"

[@andymuzzo8568]

The rotor setup reminds me of how the Rotodyne was setup for hover.

[@NicholasRehm]

Love me some tip jets

[@engizmo]

Great idea! I'd be interested in knowing if this design is more efficient than a coaxial platform of similar dimensions.

[@milespeterson5049]

8:40 He said he needed to mow his lawn, well in the process he did... 😂

[@AeroGraphica]

Instead of putting the props on the tips of the blades, you could put them closer to the hub. Since they would now work in a lower speed airflow, their efficiency could improve. Also, this drone could be fractal, has each propeller could be made on the the same principle .

[@NicholasRehm]

Actually, higher inflow/velocity is more efficient depending on the pitch of the prop 04:18

[@AeroGraphica]

@@NicholasRehm Usually the larger the prop, the better the efficiency. In that case I suppose every prop has its optimal RPM efficiency by design, but slow props are more efficient overall ...

[@olsonspeed]

The German, Focke Wulf Trebfluegel VTOL may not have been as much fringe science as previously believed. Nice work getting your Tri-copter to outperform other multi-copters in hover. I will definitely be following your progress of this unique model.

[@Yuki_Ika7]

That was my first thought too!

[@amazingdiyprojects]

Love it, well done! Im working on related madness, aiming at a ultra slow 60rpm version though.

[@NicholasRehm]

Can't wait to see what you're cooking up. Always a fun time to be had on the amazingdiyprojects channel

[@amazingdiyprojects]

@@NicholasRehm Really appreciate that you take on such an ambitious scientific approach and take the time to share your findings with all of us. Love your work!

[@SakhotGamer]

That's a nice lawn mower right there, this bad boy can spin real fast and efficiently

[@mattuiop]

You should really make 3 more of these and use them and props for a single large drone. Might actually catch on with future drone designs!

[@redbaron07]

And so on and so on... a Russian doll drone!

[@hchang007]

Recursive! And even better: why not have smaller drones that assemble themselves into the recursive structure and then repeat? Keep recursion into bigger and bigger recursively spinning system. It'll be like a fractal drone.

[@Lukas-qy2on]

ordinary 4-arm drones, also have opposite spin-directions to counteract it's own torque, so i imagine some of the energy is lost there, and by allowing the entire craft to spin, the torque spins the vings, acting as it's own propeller, meaning more of that energy gets put into lift

[@mandowarrior123]

No, the rotation force is still lost. Remember the angle of the propellers changes.

[@jacobdavidcunningham1440]

5:24 damn fallen and can't get up sweet project

[@NicholasRehm]

lol thanks!

[@brocktechnology]

I've had this in my head for 40 years still haven't quit got the skills to reinvent aircraft control to make it work. Looking forward to your approach. My imaginary version used one wing and one motor counterweighted by the battery. Also a strip scanning camera in conjunction with a post processor that reconstructs a conventional view. All this is all way more achievable now than 40 years ago but remains above my skill level. Not sure why you thought it was counter intuitive though.

[@1Esteband]

Absolutely brilliant! This moves us closer to a revolutionary and elegant VTOL. Maybe an asymmetric design could be a flying plank with an axial rotating tail. I hope the ardupilot team is watching this development.

[@yolo_burrito]

Congrats you just designed the V-22 Osprey.

[@r-gart]

@@yolo_burrito 😁

[@Test-tu9mb]

I could already see military uses for a drone like this. Improving efficiency and extending range is always something they would be interested in. I'll definitely be looking out for that forward flight performance video.

[@nicoliedolpot7213]

Increased payload capacity for one. Same power consumption for carrying 3 grenades compared to one.

[@lukd7763]

instead of holding 1 kg of explosives it can hold 3 kg

[@alainkoningverdraag6698]

Yes, I see finances in your future ...

[@512TheWolf512]

Not sure I agree. Unless you can somehow fly it all the way until you need to drop the payload

[@franki1990]

Here comes the war mob to fuel their psychopathic cravings ...

[@henryh.489]

Interesting. I envision a quadcopter assembled with four of these. I wonder how it would compare in efficiency to a traditional quadcopter of similar size.

[@SB-nt9fp]

Wow, very cool idea. Not the first time I've seen a rotor powered this way. but to combine it into a drone concept is outstanding.

[@NicholasRehm]

Thanks!

[@jhuyt-]

Fun and interesting video! It seems to me that the dip in thrust required for the wingless drone could just as easily be explained by an overfitted model. What order was the polynomials you fitted the data to? And did you keep some data not used in training to verify that those models were in fact better and not just overfitted?

[@NicholasRehm]

The data I showed was admittedly just from one flight, but I did have other flight worth of data that I never combined into one batch. Still, the slight dip was consistently there, though subtle

[@MrHaggyy]

Great video and a cool idea. Besides the energy efficiency, this should also be more robust to position errors. The angular momentum will keep it from tilting and thrusting in the wrong direction. Did you have any problems with MPU data while spinning?

[@Kataang101]

This is amazing. Also, it looked like the Emperor's Lambda T-4a Shuttle from Star Wars! You could really mod this thing out too look like it and fly it around and it would look so sick~!

[@BillRuhl001]

I thought the same thing! It really looked like that shuttle when it flies away from the camera.

[@mekabotteam6279]

Your work is fantastic. We appreciate your contributions. Thank you.

[@pr0xZen]

With the low total weight and strengths of composites, have you considered trying a shallower (and thereby lighter and causing less drag when not spinning) supercritical airfoil wing design? Could spin that puppy up _really_ fast before shock and vortexes become an issue.

[@BioKanh]

I was impressed. Two questions: Have you explored using the large wing hover configurtion for take off and landing since increased ground clearance nor a freely rotating mount should not be difficult.? Have you considered using a pair of counter-rotating systems, either co-axial or co-planar?

[@Mattxjax45]

Great Idea! Would make a great heavy super lifter for gliders and such once you figure out directional control. Fpv would be the next step but how would you keep the image from rotating. Mechanical or could it be simulated as level in software.

[@NicholasRehm]

Gotta sharpen my software skills to figure out stabilizing a 360 video stream. Hardware fix may be the solution for now!

[@jonathanstef3218]

For every frame, make a triangle out of some easily identifiable feature (in your case maybe some differently colored retro reflectors placed on the ground, just to avoid any more complex image processing). Once you can identify the points of the triangle, calculate the center of the triangle. Compare one frame's triangle to the previous frame's and calculate how much rotation around the center minimizes the error of this frame to the last. That is the angle of rotation over the duration of the frame (1/60sec) for 60fps video). If you have known features, then you also have an absolute reference (ex: the blue reflector is north). Obviously a commercial solution would extract features from the environment, and thus have to determine ground truth in a different way, but for a test flight, this should give you angular velocity and orientation with very little computation.

[@buncho888]

A camera in the center could be attached to a counter-rotating motor. The motor rpm could match the drone rotation and not use much current to do it.

[@defeatSpace]

Irrational laughter at 3:30, especially the noise it makes, "EEEE! GET YOUR HAND OUT OF THERE!

[@GawainNYC]

Awesome! I love it! But I gotta ask, since the air speed is much higher at the tip of the wing, Wouldn't they work better if the sweep of the wings were reversed?

[@chucknaussie]

Alternatively a propeller's pitch increases along the length of the blade so as the angle-of-attack is congruent with apparent air flow. The tips of a propeller spirals through more air at the tip of the propeller over the region closer to the center. Given the design has a flat wing rather than one that twist along its length, the thinning blade is an appoximation of having an increased pitch the closer to the centerline

[@djdickey]

I could totally see this for cargo delivery, once you've been able to balance the load. Your cargo won't care about spinning.

[@elllieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

the cat I ordered: 😔

[@RehanKhan-bf7ws]

The way I would explain why angling the propellers doesn't require extra rpm to stay in the air: Now you also have air wings that is producing lift. Would love to know how you feel about this.

[@eduardoandrescontrerasrome6703]

Thats inmediatly what I thought, those wings are producing extra lift which decreases the energh consumption required to hover the drone

[@Mobster9114]

How did this get recommended to me, I have no idea. But that was awesome and I subbed lol

[@haroon420]

Whilst all the aerodynamic physics goes above my head, I love the fact that there are smart people out there who are tinkering and discovering new ways to use technology. Brilliant and thank you.

[@sneett7670]

First time watching your vid and i am glad i clicked. Funny and fascinating. Exactly what I wish for when i want to watch an engineering build especially about aeronautics

[@silasstryder]

Very cool and makes complete sense. You get exponentially more lift per square inch of propeller/wing. I also like the comment that suggested having the smaller propellers on the back of the wings pushing them forward rather than pulling them forward as that would reduce drag and make it even more efficient. I imagine something like this might be utilized for package delivery where in the main drone is above the package holding section attached via cable and the main drone does this spinning drone effect to minimize power usage while the package holding section is lowered to the ground. It's also good for surveillance drones that just need to hover in place for extended periods of time.

[@iwasadeum]

This is why I love physics, and wish I would've have good math teachers in my lower education to entice me to pursue higher education in physics. I always struggled with math in grades 6-12. It wasn't till my senior year or college that I took an advanced business calculus class, and realized I wasn't terrible at math, I just didn't have very good instructors before this. The guy was a literal rocket scientist who helped develop the space shuttle fuel tanl jettison rockets after the Challenger disaster. I thought I was screwed as soon as I heard he was a rocket scientist, but I ended up excelling in his glass, and, for the first time in my life, understood the theory behind the problems presented to me (as opposed to just memorizing steps). As a result, I aced every test without even needing to use my allowed double-sided note card. I didn't need to memorize steps because he ensured we knew the "WHY"/theory behind our calculations/problems. So many of these situations don't make sense to me, logically. But when the science is explained to me in a way I can understand, it makes perfect sense!

[@Byt3me21]

I was blown away by those horizontal flights at the end!

[@NicholasRehm]

More coming soon!!

[@davidbeck3436]

Great idea and a correct observation that large, low speed props are more efficient than high speed small props. You can see the practical application of this if you look at human power air vehicles. They have huge props that turn very slowly. Planes that need efficiency, like solar powered planes use this trick too. Very innovative approach and fun to watch your progress. Keep up the good work.

[@laStar972chuck]

THIS. IS. IMPRESSIVE !!! Instant subscribed, wow.

[@Hadrian1776]

Most interesting video I've seen in a while.

[@Ibloop]

Thanks to you I’ve found something to do that isn’t rotting my brain as a 14 year old

[@diegoteclas]

That´s great home-engineering. Your video reminds me when i was younger, and i modified an IR indoor helicopter by making a whole new blades with bigger surface and sharper attack edges, so the tiny motors energy was used better, the Helicopter was then, able to hover in air even when entered in low battery mode, for automatic landing.

[@tapuout101]

Dude this is Super interesting!!! This is my 1st video so I dont know how far you took it yet. I was just watching the no gravity stuff. Im wondering how long you can keep it up, does it need to spin super fast, have 2 motors on each wing, light weight, even solar panels, it looks like it needs balanced some how.

[@VenetinOfficial]

This concept was actually explored over a decade ago with the Air Hogs toy “Switchblade”. It had basically a much simpler version of this concept but with two rotors during launch. You locked the toy into “Launch Mode” by twisting the two rotors away from each other, and let it spin itself to altitude, and when you were ready, hitting a button to unlock it from launch mode to fully fly like any plane-esque twin-rotor RC. Pretty neat to see this concept again in my 20s after seeing it before i even hit 10 :D

[@megatesla]

This concept was also used 15 years ago in the WowWee Bladestar toy.

[@Vulporium]

8:15 omg, you didn't tell me it was also a freaking Y-Wing. 😍That is so cool!

[@SWISS-1337]

Helicopters are going to be a lot more sickening to ride if the whole aircraft needs to spin too lol

[@wernerschulte6245]

The physics are quite clear, no doubt about it ! However, the systematic scientific investigation and explanation together with the very well crafted parts is great. Thumbs up !

[@petertimowreef9085]

Bro as far as I can see this is one of those great ideas that seem so obvious that everybody's wondering why nobody else put 2 and 2 together like this before.

[@evans7771]

Really cool. I like how you tried to dumb it down so we could understand. I still didn't. But i appreciate you doing so

[@EdvinLaura]

the problem is that most of the time you need to fly somewhere, not stay at the same point and the weight if the wings will negatively affect the flying efficiency. however , if you need a drone which takes a position and stays there for as much time as possible, it could be a good solution

[@tristanmelling410]

Not it the whole vehicle could be tilted while in spinny mode, the whole thing would just become a plane prop with no fuselage