The Stack: episode 1 - air drying lumber

[@andrewure6974]

G'day HM. I'm in Australia our species and weather are different but the science is the same I had learnt everything you said and forgotten most of it as the decades have rolled on. Your presentation was excellent and I have not given that praise on you tube before, I learned quite a bit from an old German master wood craftsman named Gisbert on timber handling and he told me you should stick the wood out with stickers made from the same species that's how we've done it for five centuries. I thought that I would be able to add that comment but you already knew.

[@ryanslandandtreesvc454]

Talk about a master of their trade. Hats off to you sir! I am in n the tree care industry, and got tired of cutting good wood into logs, so I bought an Alaskan Mill to start milling, have done some Cedar, Cherry, and just recently Black Walnut, I had no idea how much goes into the process. Wow!

[@HolzMichel]

thanks for the positive comment and watching! just be aware that when you start using an alaska sawmill that it would be very wise to invest in the auxiliary oiler that goes on the tip of the bar. you can turn up the oil pump on the saw all the way and still not have enough oil on the chain. you will experience a lot of wear on the rails of your bar where the chain leaves the cut and is pulled into the power head. for this reason you should also invest in a bar rail grinder or you'll be running to the saw shop every other day to get the rails ground. also grinding chains by hand or filing by hand should be avoided as you chain will begin to pull to one side or the other. even with machine ground chains this can occur, but then it's just a matter of fine tuning the grind. lastly, what may seem like a mundane thing is raker maintenance on the chain. for this i recommend getting the Carlton "File-o-Plate" to keep your rakers in top shape. the little bridge type raker depth gauge that the saw manufacturers provide do work but after a few grinds the cutters on the will begin to have differing heights. while we're talking about thousands of a millimeter differences it can mean the difference of making 3 cuts and throwing the alaska sawmill into the corner of the shed or cutting several thousand board feet of lumber without busting your back

[@miikasuvanto3265]

I had a lot of questions about drying ones own wood(logs currently waiting for the saw). This video answered all off them. So thanks! Really liked the the smile-rule.

[@HolzMichel]

glad this video was a help to you in some way. if you have any questions that weren't covered in this or other videos, don't be shy and ask away. always glad to help :)

[@glyntutt1586]

You are a great presenter on a subject which is clearly your passion and life. Thank you or all of these videos.

[@HolzMichel]

thanks for the comment, it's a little awkward at first talking to the camera and when someone else happens by doubly so, but i'm growing into it so to speak and am getting better at the presentations.

[@mariaphilomena1422]

Wagner’s Ride of the Valerie’s is a refreshing touch! I’m about to stack some Birch and I’m gonna watch this video!

[@migg2226]

I have just ordered a mobile saw mill. I have plenty of indoor space for drying wood (1000sq meters) using and old industrial chicken shed, well ventilated and dry. I am a carpenter & timber framer and i am looking forward to cutting and drying my own timber. Thanks for this series, just what I was looking for. keep up the good work!

[@HolzMichel]

good luck with your mill, i hope it works well for you. thanks for watching and commenting

[@christopheleblanc9175]

wow ,,, what a amazing stock pile ,,, reminds me of late 1800 mill drying yards photos, cool to see some one still doing old school drying on a large scale , ive done many single logs in the past , but nothing like this , wow

[@marcelwolf9546]

Hi. I am new in hobby to make a lumber for my self and i found you series very helpfull for me. Thank you for your good job and time to make this video.

[@47ronin61]

Thanks a lot for enhancing my knowledge, this vid made my morning coffee a lot more enjoyable today.

[@HolzMichel]

good to hear that some folks are getting some good out this series. stay tuned for the next episode in this series coming in the next few weeks.

[@samiajibudiprayogo9480]

Thanks

[@TCSawmills]

Thanks for the great information, I use a lot of these techniques in my drying process, your's is a lot more organized than mine.

[@danielroden9424]

the concrete barriers holding it all of the ground is very satisfying. laying wood on the ground hurts my soul

[@HolzMichel]

yes, any stack needs a good 12 inches or more off the ground as moisture will evaporate from the ground. since the water vapor is generally heavier than air it likes to remain close to the ground and so it will quickly go into any lumber stacked close to the ground surface. 16 to 18 inches of clearance is an optimal elevation. any higher than that and you start dealing with stability issues of the stacks with side winds and ground heaving from the frost or changes in ground water levels (subsidence)

[@waderobinson9933]

Great video

[@Chris-qf9qm]

Excellent information, your the gandolph of wood milling. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us hobbits

[@graysquirreltreeservice7299]

Man u are full of knowledge 😁😁😁👍👍👍👍just began milling on my lx250 😁😁😁exciting stuff

[@graysquirreltreeservice7299]

Ty for the awesome information

[@adriankilchherrfotografie5511]

Love your content. Do you know when you will upload the video about color retention. Really looking forward to it.

[@HolzMichel]

my bad, i have it in the works still, but due to changes in my professional life i have had put it off for longer than intended. for those of you reading along, you can kind of read out of the previous videos that color retention (mold prevention or promotion) is basically a conglomeration of the series.

[@rothvisuals]

I haven't heard many of the things that you spoke of - Thank you very much!!

[@dynoguy]

As you might know this is not quite my field, my knowloedge about wood boils down to ... it makes a big mess in the workshop and you can't weld it...... However, i really enjoyed the well presented information and will certainly watch the rest of the seiries.

[@HolzMichel]

+dynoguy thanks :) this one took a long time to make because i muffed the monologue a few times and had to re-shoot several portions. i'd been working on it since the second week of february.. the post production was a real bear to do too.. the next one should be shorter.. i haven't started with the recording yet.. that should only take an hour or so. i have more machine vids still in the can but need some additional footage as i'm starting a new series which would be more of a "how to" tutorial.

[@dynoguy]

+HolzMichel... I know the feeling when an hour of footage is just good for the bin, just had it ith the mower.... I am about to finish the first episode of my motor/vfd how-to, should be up soon,...still thinking about a joint subject.... Btw...like the F12: NOD AUS,...dyslexic Chinese machinery or just Bavarian dialect ?

[@HolzMichel]

dynoguy it's a british made machine (Stenner) but not sure where the control unit hails from.. probably china.. definitely dyslexic...lol

[@dan82667]

well done sir.great video.

[@HolzMichel]

thank you for watching and commenting!

[@Zorgoban]

The timing for this series couldn't be better for me. Thanks! I'm starting a small hobby lumber stock and these tips will be very helpful. The initial plan is to dry it inside the shop in the cellar. What is with the stacks full of black wood we saw in the video? Is this deteriorated or just on the surface?

[@HolzMichel]

+Zorgoban awesome! i'm really glad this helps you out :) that was the intent of making the video. my apologies for some of the hiccups in the monologue the black looking wood: some of it is oak and it has a tendency to turn black when the tannins oxidize, these logs weren't treated with the paraffin to seal off the ends and so the VOCs (volatile organic compounds) leach out to the end and turn dark when they oxidize. once you take off a millimeter or so the color comes back out. color retention is a topic i'm working on and it should be out in 2 months or so. the production schedule is pretty full and the stupid thumb injury pushed everything back 6 weeks. thanks for watching and commenting!

[@joeminocchi2947]

Great video. I am new to this and was wondering if you stand slabs on edge for drying. I currently have about 20 cherry slabs cut at 2 1/2” thick. I have them stacked with stickers. But I’m limited on space so that’s why I was curious about vertical standing vs. horizontal stacking. Thanks for your time!

[@HolzMichel]

the short answer is yes. this is another old technique that is rarely practiced these days but up until the advent of ubiquitous kiln drying it was very wide spread and actually quite effective. it's still used today for very color sensitive sweet woods such as birch, maple and hornbeam. there is absolutely no reason you can't use for any other species. just stand them on end with the butt end up. this allows for a slightly better water distribution in the plank. also keep about the same distance between the planks as you would when using a conventional stickering method to ensure good air circulation

[@joeminocchi2947]

@@HolzMichel thank you very much! This will allow for me to cut and dry more slabs!

[@LauraTeAhoWhite]

I would've been pretty happy with sitting through a 20 hour long video on drying wood.

[@HolzMichel]

well most peoples attention span (including mine) doesn't last that long ;-) which is i broke this up into several parts. there are still a few more in the works. i'm still gathering footage and so i'm not sure when i'll be able to finish the series up. thanks for watching and commenting!

[@ericdenobel6959]

Love your video, I am a starter, this helps me very much, thanks from France!

[@toodeep1913]

Holz, I tried to find your business online, no luck, do you have a website, might as well get some business from these videos right?

[@HolzMichel]

no, unfortunately i don't have an internet presence at the moment. once i get situated in alaska that will of course change. however if you have any specific questions within the topics presented, by all means fire away and i'll do due diligence to get them answered to the best of my knowledge and ability. cheers mike

[@delwynmccarroll7982]

Does redwood stain?

[@HolzMichel]

under the right conditions it can, but if treated and stacked properly it normally doesn't. in a deadstack (no stickers between layers) where there is no air going thru it, a dark mold can form staining it if it gets wet and doesn't dry out. or if it comes into contact with iron and gets wet. redwood lumber from old decks where nails were used, will have staining where the nail went thru. but it usually doesn't streak or cause any big blotches. anyone using redwood in an outdoor application should use stainless steel screws as galvanized deck screws will eventually rust and stain the wood around the hole

[@delwynmccarroll7982]

@@HolzMichel thanks for your quick reply. If dry redwood sticks are used between London Plane tree slabs, which are light in colour, do you think they would get stained?

[@HolzMichel]

it would be interesting to try it out. my first inclination would be that there shouldn't be any reason the redwood should stain the plane tree if the sticks are dry and free from any stain mold. if staining is an issue, it becomes imperative to get the surface dried off enough to stack the slabs like you normally would, so it might be a good recommendation to stand them up on end. this is where the redwood will really shine, is if you rest the standing slab on a short piece so you don't get any ground contact. also, coating the ends of the log with a wax or some old goopy paint before sawing will help protect the slabs from staining as well as cracking. now be totally honest, i have never used redwood stickers for drying and i haven't used much of it other than repairing decks. so i have no idea if the tannins in the redwood will react with the VOCs in the plane tree. chances are it will probably be ok, you may see some sticker shadow when planing the lumber later if the planks were still fairly wet when stacked

[@delwynmccarroll7982]

@@HolzMichel thanks.🤞

[@jjs4x]

Enjoyed the video! What happened to your thumb?

[@HolzMichel]

+jjs4x it got bit by a rabid grinder..lol.. it was almost severed...the grinder ended up testing negative for rabies...but still had to get a tetanus shot before the operation...

[@jjs4x]

Ouch!! I was afraid you were going to say something along those lines. Glad your okay and it wasn't worse.

[@HolzMichel]

jjs4x thanks for the well wishes :) well it was ..but i make light of it.. spent 3 days in the hospital.. it severed an artery and a major nerve.. still doing physical therapy for another month, got another eval in 5 weeks and a final in september to determine what degree of impairment there is.. not rosiest of prospects. the nerve damage is probably permanent... had the wound been cleaner and the tool sharper, the damage wouldn't have been so bad. to top it off part of the new wound overlaps an old one.. which is why things aren't healing as well as they should or could.. just a freak accident, it will take a few more months or years for the change in routine to set in..

[@dannysulyma6273]

+HolzMichel Ouch is right !! Grinders have got to make amongst to worst of wounds when bitten by one. Them and chainsaws, so much nicer to have an injury inflicted by a small toothed saw or even better a nicely sharpened knife. Even better would be to remain ignorant to all of the above by careful tool use, but it seems that some of use need to get burned to understand hot. Best wishes for a total thumb recovery

[@HolzMichel]

danny sulyma Roger that!! thanks for watching and the well wishes :)

[@carlfailz]

In watching this video I was noticing the large stacks of flat sawn live edge boards. Does anyone here know what those are sawn for and what the market is? I have several large piles of hardwood that I'm about to saw but I haven't decided how I want to cut them. The idea of cutting less now and even more potential for later is appealing.

[@HolzMichel]

the lumber you saw is referred to as "flitches" or "flitch lumber".. it's primarily used for furniture manufacturing and is used mostly in small cabinet shops. by leaving the live edge on, the cabinetmaker can optimize his yield better and make the best use of the grain structure of the wood. with edged boards you're pretty much stuck with the grain pattern you get unless you want to incur tremendous losses trying to get grain that parallels the edges. it also allows the cabinetmaker to maximize vertical grain in his stock as it is the most stable and is less prone to shrinkage and warping with slight changes in relative humidity. european cabinet shops prefer this type of lumber over edged lumber for that reason. following the grain is not a hallmark of US cabinet manufacturing. if you plan on using this type of lumber in your own shop, it is recommended you invest in a sliding table for your table saw in order to be able to put a straight edge on your lumber. sure, there are other ways of getting your lumber edged, but the slider makes life so much easier and your efficiency increases exponentially.

[@carlfailz]

Thank you! That is roughly what I thought but with a much better explanation (and the correct name put on it). Most of what I have is red oak with some ash and some hard maple and a few good walnut logs. Is there any dimension below which it is not worth flitch sawing a log (I have things anywhere from 36 inches down to 8 inches) as I have way more lumber than I will ever be able to use I'm looking at potential marketability and don't want to waste time sawing boards that only mother could love. Any other advice you have for someone with a huge pile of logs, a new (used) timberking 2000, and a desire to make the best furniture grade lumber possible, would be greatly appreciated Thanks!

[@HolzMichel]

Hi Carl, the thickness you should target would be based mostly on the finished product you're trying to produce. if you're just sawing to have lumber on hand then i wouldn't go any thinner than 1 inch or any thicker than 4 inches. the thickness will be mostly dependent upon your resaw capability. the board thickness will also dictate the speed at which your wood will dry (green sawn lumber) . if you are dependent solely upon air drying figure on 2 years for one inch planks (northern climate with +30 inches precip/yr) and one year additional per inch. that should give you a wood moisture content between 10 and 14 %. in the desert southwest like arizona, new mexico, california and utah you can easily shave off a year and expect moisture contents below 10% that timberking should be a pretty decent machine and hopefully give you lots of years of good service. for furniture manufacturing i would suggest targeting a quarter sawn pattern in your lumber. flitches give you that almost automatically but with that machine you can produce edged, quarter sawn lumber with no problems. quarter sawing eliminates most of your warping since the heart has been cut thru. it also reduces volume losses due to drying since you have a mostly vertical grain pattern in your wood. quarter sawn lumber is also inherently more stable when changes in the relative humidity occur. this is particularly advantageous in hardwoods.

[@carlfailz]

Thank you. I really appreciate your videos and your detailed advice.

[@avecforte8851]

Very good video but to much text while talking making it stressful to followe

[@HolzMichel]

thank you so much for the critique, there is a lot of info that had to be included in the video and so i chose this avenue to supplement the monologue. as this was one of my first videos and i wasn't real proficient with the editing software and there were some other issues with the recordings i had to go this route. had i done a complete monologue with the included info, the video would have been quite a bit longer. i hope that you can glean something useful out of the videos in the channel. one thing you can do to absorb more of the sub-titled info is pause the video at the end of a sentence. i do try to add in a small pause at the end of each sentence for that purpose although i do slip and miss the cue at times. if you have any questions feel free to ask away, i'll do my best to get back to you in a timely fashion and answer it with the best info i have i have. some of your questions could also be answered in the comment section so by all means check that out as well thanks for the sub, the excellent critique and happy browsing! cheers! mike

[@jamesking5508]

CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS HE WAS BURIED AND ON THE THIRD DAY HE WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD IN THE FLESH AND SEEN OF OVER 500 EYEWITNESSES AT ONCE....AND THIS SAME RISEN SAVIOR COMMANDS EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE TO REPENT AND BE BORN AGAIN TO ESCAPE THE TORMENTS OF HELL FIRE.....WE ARE ALL A HEARTBEAT AWAY FROM ETERNITY...ARE YOU READY TO MEET YOUR MAKER (CREATOR) MAY GOD ALMIGHTY BLESS YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES FOREVER IN CHRIST JESUS

[@nikoscuatro7251]

thanks a lot for making and sharing all these series, I need to learn all that. Thanks sir.

[@Xaviar002]

Incredibly helpful, thanks so much. Don't have the time to dedicate to this right now, but will definitely be coming back. This is a truly incredible resource. I have a lot to learn from felling a tree to, to stacking and drying the wood, to actually woodworking. 21 years old, so lors of time to learn. This sort of thing seems like dying knowledge, but still is actively pursued by at least some of us young guys. Again thanks, this will really help. This coming summer will likely just be firewood gathering, got a bout 10 cords to get. But hey it's a first step

[@HolzMichel]

this video also loosely applies to firewood in keeping your stack covered and exposed to good airflow. there are lots more videos in the wood processing series to come.. same thing on the logging..

[@customcutter100]

Just found your video after watching some by the Cooks Bandsaw Mills. Great material and very well presented. I will be watching more. Hope and pray your thumb is better. Have a Blessed day. Subscribed

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Good informative video, great subject. Looking forward to the series. I have dried small amounts of the the years and built many projects. It is very satisfying to cut , dry and build. Thanks, Randy

[@HolzMichel]

+Randy Richard Thanks for stopping by and commenting Randy! it's nice to see that somebody is getting something out of these vids :) there is certainly more to come !!

[@brewbuildsit]

This is so helpful and well presented. Thanks.

[@Oldvet1946]

Very interesting video. I learned a lot and can use it this summer. I hope your thumb will be good enough to use. I have lost the use of my left one because of nerve damage, but I get by just fine. Mike

[@HolzMichel]

+Oldvet1946 thanks for the well wishes :) glad you can make use of the info in the video. let me know how it turns out, it would be interesting to see how the lumber dries in your neck of the woods

[@jsmith7338]

Good stuff. My instinct is to leave more side space between the boards at each sticker level, leaving 'chimneys' inside the stacks. I managed to put light stripes on Doug Fir planks by using Redwood stickers. Apparently, the Redwood's chemistry prevented the Fir from naturally getting darker as it aged. I have decided that covering outdoor board stacks with plastic sheeting is not a good idea. It seems to encourage a black blotchy growth - maybe a mold or fungus.

[@HolzMichel]

the lighter stripes on the boards might have occurred even using fir stickers as the wood isn't directly exposed to oxygen, which of course is the main culprit in the darkening of wood. the volatile organic compounds (VOCs) oxidize and get darker with age. when you run the lumber thru the planer you will get a fresh surface again. of course using redwood stickers is a great idea as molds (the real source of most stains) doesn't like redwood. the only drawback to it is that is a really soft wood so your stack size will be somewhat limited. usually no more than 8 feet high. covering a green stack of lumber of course will encourage mold as there is little to no air circulation. also rising moisture from evapotranspiration out of the ground is trapped underneath the cover and accelerates the process along with the increase in temperature. the paradox here is that the mold also generates a certain amount of heat in addition to the breakdown of the sap by yeasts that are in the air. as nutty as this may sound, but an old military camo net that allows airflow works well if your goal is prevent the wood from being exposed to direct sunlight and sustaining UV damage. you should wait a few weeks before covering the lumber as to get a good start on a good surface dry so that molds have less of a chance of taking foothold.

[@ginaalwaysavip1177]

I can't say thanks enough for sharing your videos! I'm actually looking forward to stacking once again my lumber today! I hope I didn't ruin what mistakes that I've made. Thanks again for sharing your information well done.

[@HolzMichel]

my pleasure to be of service to those who want to get better results. some mistakes are correctable others not so much. if you run into something that looks like it might tough to correct, let me know, might be able to figure something out so that you'll be able to get usable lumber out what you have. thanks for stopping by, watching and commenting! it's always good to get feedback from the viewers :)

[@lesbore3999]

Hey Mate that was excellent thank you , Im from New Zealand and Im new to the woodwork game but I have been fortunate to obtain 200 pieces of Ancient Swamp Kauri which I need to store properly and eventually work into Luxury items... so storage quality is essential. Im a small business / hobbiest 1 man show kinda operation and I was wondering what you think about storing slabs 3.5 mtrs x 1 mtr x 100 mm thick outside that are already dry and machined flat . I have no option but to store outside and winter is approaching. So dryness is no one priority but it was suggested to me to NOT have the slats for the airflow because they are already dry and this will apparently help to protect the wood and help keep them flat your thoughts please. thanks again great tutorial

[@HolzMichel]

Hi Les, well you're in a dilly of a pickle i'd say if you have to store dried lumber outside. even if you cover it up with whatever tarps or viz-queen you can scrounge up, you're still gonna have water creeping in and getting your lumber wet. if you have slats (stickers) by all means use them if your wood has to remain outside for the winter. now i can't say how the relative humidity is in New Zealand in the winter, but if it's like in the northern hemisphere it will go up like crazy. so keeping air movement between the boards is really important. if you dead stack (not using slats/stickers) outside, the capillary action between the boards will draw in a lot of water and you'll see staining that can go deep into the wood. now, i'm not in the least bit familiar with Kauri, so i have no idea what kind of VOCs are contained in it and how susceptible they are to leaching and staining. dead stacking is something that should only be done if the lumber is going to be stored indoors or in a barn where rain can't get to it. now as crazy as this may sound, but you'd be better off putting up a tent, even if it's one made of lumber wrap or viz-queen, and keeping the lumber in there. as long as you can keep any rainwater or snow from getting onto the stack you should in good shape. again, even in a tent, keep slats in the stack. tents are no guarantee that water will get to the wood but water is polar molecule and if it can find a way into the stack, rest assured it will be wet in a hurry. wrapped lumber has the huge disadvantage that any wrap used, even the Tyvek varieties, will keep the moisture in once it has gotten in. air circulation is vital to keeping wood dry. now you will see a slight increase in the moisture content of your lumber if you store the lumber outside. but with the return of warmer weather it will go right back down. it usually doesn't rise much maybe 2 or 3% over the course of the winter. now the one thing will not get around is the wood warping. the outer slabs can cup up to about an inch or so. the closer the slab is to the pith, the less it will cup. now if the wood has been kiln dried and hasn't cupped, it shouldn't move much. but there again, i've never worked with Kauri so i have no idea how it's gonna behave for you. hope that helps, if you got more questions or feedback by all means fire away! cheers mike

[@CalicoJackxx]

Thank you great help, I guess i need to restack properly

[@ginaalwaysavip1177]

Sorry to bother you while you are stressed out with dealing with your unfortunate situation. I'm trying to find out about color retention that you have mentioned and can't locate it on your channel. I'm still stacking my walnut and cherry lumber and would appreciate your knowledge being sent my way. Thanks, Gina

[@HolzMichel]

Hi Gina, the video on color retention isn't done yet. some of the footage is done but there is quite a bit more yet to be recorded. color retention of course begins at the time of harvest. and continues through to until milling of the log to the finished product. it's pretty in depth subject. answering your questions is a welcome diversion from the events of recent past so thank you for the opportunity to get my mind off of it for a while. which variety of walnut are you drying? there are different goals you can go for. if you want the sap wood to remain and be distinct from the heart wood, then you should peel off the bark if it isn't already. the bark contains lots of tannins and if it is allowed to remain on the lumber and the lumber allowed to get wet, the tannins will color the sap wood darker. it will still be distinct to the trained eye in the finished product but still give you a more homogeneous color distribution. cherry is a rather fickle wood. it should generally be milled within 6 months of harvest to keep the sap from staining a tan color. it should be peeled right before or right after milling if the boards haven't been run through the edger. the key to cherry is keeping the weather and sun off of it so it doesn't bleach out, stain or warp excessively. keeping the rain off is also fairly important. the color will darken in after you have made something out of it. it usually becomes a very deep red to brown depending on the type of finish. with cherry a big no no is using woods such as oak with tannins for stacking stickers or sweet woods like maple or birch that attract mold. if there is any mold in the xylem of the stickers you are using, you are almost guaranteed to see some staining. if you need some more specific info just ask away. i just pulled a few points out of my hat here to get you going on a track. there are so many things you can do with the wood, i really like the natural fresh milled look of wood so the tips given here are based on that premise. if you're looking for something different then there are certainly other ways. cheers mike

[@eimat67]

RE: 18:28 "the bitter end" - keep the stickers as close to the end as possible to limit cracking - Another video recommended painting the ends with acrylic paint to avoid cracking. Is this a good idea. I imagine the painted ends would dry out at a much different rate than the rest of the board ?

[@HolzMichel]

yes, the ends do dry out much faster.. if the ends of the boards go unpainted, they will dry out at a much faster rate as the rest of the board and tend to crack. this is due to capillary action at work and the accelerated shrinkage where the faster drying is taking place. the cracking is actually at a cellular level which is why the ends should be shielded from accelerated drying. as far as the type of paint goes, anything will work although acrylic would be the best to use. any oil based paint really. it's just to plug the pores of the wood and force the moisture to escape from a different place at a slower pace. old furniture wax or melted wax works great too... my recommendation is simply to use whatever you may have on hand without throwing yourself into unnecessary expense. hardware stores often throw out old paint or you can get some at recycling centers or hazardous household waste collection centers. as a machinist i re-use and re-purpose many old pieces of iron and other things to one: conserve our resources and two: cut project raw material expenses. just like the viewers i'm not made of money and have to keep a tight budget... if you're milling your own lumber, chances are you're not rolling in a vault of dough like scrooge mcduck...lol

[@rodneyrockwell9967]

Very informative Thank You

[@chrisriedl3499]

Thank you for all of your videos! Very educational. I'm preparing to mill quite a bit of lumber in a couple weeks, and I'm wondering if you could give some advice regarding best practices when creating a foundation for a stack? I have about 64 logs = 20,000 bf. They will be going under a pole barn, which has gravel. It is more or less flat, but I know having a level foundation is of crucial importance to getting flat boards. Any thoughts on methodology, materials, height etc., for preparing foundations for this lumber?

[@HolzMichel]

sure, not a problem. keep in mind that even a graveled surface will transpire lots of water. for stacking in a pole barn on a graveled surface i would recommend using plain old concrete pier blocks you can either get at a building supply outfit or if you're feeling really froggy even make yourself. since concrete wicks the water i would recommend putting a piece of plastic.... like an old shopping bag or something like that between the pier block and ground, and then again between the pier block and the timbers you'll use for cribbing under the stack of lumber. as mentioned in the video you should try to maintain a height off of the ground of 16 inches or so if you can. any lower than a foot and you're gonna have issues with the lower courses in the stack. only on a sealed impervious surface would i go any less than 16 inched of height under the stack. the cribbing should be at the same spacing as your stickers for the maximum weight distribution. getting it level is of course a good idea. however you can stack on a slope as long as the stack is on a flat plane and there are no hills or twists in the bed of it. that's easy enough to check with a straight edged board or a string. if you don't have any cribbing material already you can sacrifice your crappiest log for cribbing and make it into 3x4's or 4x5's to span between pier blocks if you're stickering a color sensitive species such as maple or birch, you should stand the boards on end with the butt ends up and a little bit of space between them. this crazy method was thought up many centuries ago before there were drying kilns and really works well. after about 4 to 8 weeks you can then stack them horizontally. to minimize contact on the cribbing you can always lay a sticker down first. hope that helps, if you have any problems and have more questions feel free to fire away. always glad to be of help

[@chrisriedl3499]

Thank you so much for the reply. This is really helpful. The wood will be mostly Black Walnut, some Black Locust, and a little bit of maple. Interesting to hear about standing the color sensitive woods on end first, I've never seen/or heard about that technique. Perhaps I'll give that a try. In your experience is Black Walnut prone to sticker stain? I'm still needing to source a great deal more stickers. I have a bunch of dry fir stickers, but I was thinking to use a pine log which I have, and just mill it up into stickers prior to everything else. Do you think this is risky considering its green, and also potentially has a high sap content? You mention in your video that its best to use the same species as is being dried...however I'm hesitant to sacrifice any walnut logs for this purpose. Thoughts? Sorry it probably seems like I'm writing in the middle of the night, but I'm currently in Austria visiting family. So it's only lunchtime. Lol. Returning in one week.

[@HolzMichel]

too bad you're going back in a week, i'm not far from austria...lol. there's plenty of little peckerwood mills still all around and if your german is good enough to converse you should be able to verify the maple drying technique. there aren't many austrian mills in the alps that mill hardwoods but in lower austria they're all over the place. black walnut isn't really prone to sticker stain in the sense that mold causes it. it's more the tannins in the wood that do it. *CONVENTIONAL METHOD* black walnut is a wood that is best milled after about 2 years of being cut down. the ends of the log should be coated with some kind of sealant like an old goopy paint or wax to prevent cracking. that allows the tannins in the bark to soak into the sapwood and darken it. it also relieves a lot of the stresses in the log. if you mill it now it will be sure to crack pretty deeply in the heart. i've seen freshly sawn walnut planks split the entire length when freshly sawn. there's really nothing you can do about it when it happens. leave the walnut out in the open for the first year before you put it in the pole barn if you want the colors to even out. the best thing a guy can do with a black walnut is throw that bitch in a pond for two years and then mill it up. the water will even out the color, separate the bark from the bole, relieve most of the stresses and prevent wood worms from getting in. *NON-CONVENTIONAL METHOD* if you want to keep the crazy striping that walnut naturally has, then put it into the pole barn right away but just be sure to run some test pieces of anything you make out of it to check if the finish will be influenced. shellac for example will be a real bear to work with on walnut that hasn't weathered. but the natural striping and color of the untreated walnut will be breathtaking. the color palette is from a canary yellow to a deep ebony. even some shades of blue, red and purple are possible depending on where it grew. just keep in mind that the colors you see in the freshly milled wood will never appear again in the finished product :-( i've been monkeying around with various finishes over the years and haven't found one yet that gives me that fresh milled color...grrr fir stickers should be plenty good enough for black walnut as long as they haven't been used with something like oak before. again the tannin thing. cross contamination can be a problem at times but usually goes unnoticed to the untrained eye. the pine stickers should be ok as long as you use heartwood and stay away from the sapwood as much as you can. the pitch in the wood isn't so much the issue as is the fungus attracted to the sap which stains the sapwood when it gets in. the locust is a very forgiving wood. as long as you don't use moldy stickers or stained ones, it mox nix what you use with it. throw it in the pole barn right away. it still has some funky stresses and does pretty much what it wants to but it will be a crazy green color when you work it. it's one of the few woods that will actually retain most of its freshly milled color if you keep it out of the sun.

[@ginaalwaysavip1177]

Hi Mike, I hope all is well with you. I've noticed that you don't put weight on your stack, is it really not important? Once the lumber has been outside and the moisture is low enough..at what level? I would like to transfer it to an exterior shed and save some space. What would be the proper stacking process? I thank you once again for all that you share with us.

[@HolzMichel]

HI Gina, always happy to answer any questions folks have putting weight on top of the stack is optional really. it's most advantageous to do so when the wood is freshly sawn and is a species like Bull Pine, Digger Pine, Beech, Red Oak or Hornbeam. but then your under-construction of your stack becomes hypercritical as well as the placement of the stickers. adding weight will transfer pressure all way to the bottom layer and if one sticker is out of place you're gonna see bent boards like in the video. if your lumber has been drying a while already, putting weight on top won't really prevent the boards from warping, but it doesn't hurt either. if you're stacking into a shed you can do so right off the bat if it's an open sided shed like what you saw in the video. if it's a closed sided shed, then you should be able to safely move your lumber in when the moisture content hits 20% or below, that's about the cutoff when mold will start to grow. however it does vary from one species of mold to another as well as the wood. if you are pressed for time and need to get it in for what ever reason try to leave the door open and to allow for air movement. of course stack and sticker like you did outside to keep the air moving thru the stack. a dead stack is only recommended for transport or lumber that's been kiln dried and wrapped with directional foil hope that helps cheers mike

[@ginaalwaysavip1177]

HolzMichel Thanks so much Mike I really appreciate your assistance with this information.

[@bsan658]

your intro is so damn long that i clicked away before ya got started

[@HolzMichel]

the curse of modern society and instant gratification.

[@redlindholm8451]

where are the episodes past #3? I am really digging this info and want more, now!! Awesome videos

[@HolzMichel]

thanks! the video on color retention is still in the works but it 's taking a bit longer than i had anticipated to gather the photographic material to put it all together. not sure when it'll be done hut i hope i can get it wrapped up this year.

[@redlindholm8451]

@@HolzMichel hell yeah. I enjoyed watching and I look forward to seeing the rest. Keep up the excellent work my friend

[@truegritbulldog]

WOW, you've got stacks.....Impressive.

[@HolzMichel]

unfortunately they're not mine..they belong to the outfit i used to work for

[@vogrigoutdoor7284]

Thank you!!! Well done!!!

[@HolzMichel]

glad to be of help!

[@papadross]

What are your thoughts on sealing the ends of the logs before milling?

[@HolzMichel]

it's always a good idea. saves you from having to do it afterwards. any goopy, sticky old paint will do, as will paraffin wax.

[@papadross]

@@HolzMichel Thanks for the info.

[@saidgivehchian878]

Thanks a lot, very helpful.

[@HolzMichel]

thanks for the feedback, if you have any questions just fire away, i'll do the best i can to answer them for you

[@northcountryrich9611]

GREAT VID THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO

[@HolzMichel]

thanks for watching and commenting.

[@totalpkg6912]

down to science

[@David-fv7zg]

What’s you opinion on using green stickers? When I am running out of stickers, I generally use a pine or poplar log and cut it into stickers for the next few logs to mill.

[@HolzMichel]

green stickers are fine to use. it's best to allow the boards to dry for a few days before cutting them into stickers, but not an absolute must. the most important thing is to make sure the stickers are well aligned. also it's best to not stack your units more than 2 high if using green stickers. just watch out for any mold discoloration in the pine or poplar so you ruin your lumber with mold lines. if your end product is just studs it won't matter, but if you're milling lumber that will be a sight feature then you really got to watch for the mold.

[@michaelrickert7999]

My Uncle Charlie told me that you should never use green stickers. The wood was stained.

[@almonjacob3496]

Can you "sticker" your wood stack with wet, green wood?

[@HolzMichel]

absolutely, i would make sure the stickers are free of any blue stain, mold or dirt. if the lumber is lower in humidity it will absorb the moisture in the stickers and disperse it.

[@camohawk6703]

i love watching these types of videos. nice info and no music or any other silly distractions from what the presenter is talking about. sorta like this old house.

[@HolzMichel]

thanks for the feedback! it's always good to hear from the viewers, what they like and dislike. we'll continue to make improvements wherever possible based on that feedback and try to keep the presentations interesting.