The Strange Case of Mark St John from KISS

[@permanentgrin]

Mark's brother Mike passed away a couple weeks ago. He also played in White Tiger. I hope they are together again on the other side.

[@StJames33]

Great video. The story of Mark St. John is a tragic one. So amazing KISS finally officially released a concert with Mark. I would love to see VIDEO of Mark onstage live with KISS!!

[@MattTalksVinyl]

thank you! yes RIP Mark!

[@Edie5150]

I was privileged to have spent some time with Mark St. John. We were neighbors in Garden Grove California where he lived down the road from Gary Street. A great personality but at the time, we were into the nitty gritty (If you know what I mean). I remember seeing him in his garage grinding away on his guitars which led to me giving him a grinder which he needed, (Sorry Dad, Mark St. John needed it [White Lion, Kiss!]). I remember one night we got pretty wired and we climbed a gated apartment building and took a dip in the facility's jacuzzi. With excitement rushing through us as we scaled the gates, and then eased in the jacuzzi, I enquired what was it like to have played with Kiss. He responded with "how would you like to be around a bunch of New Yorkers" as we laughed intently. On another occasion, we were hanging out in his garage where guitars and shiny albums were crowded onto his garage walls. I was awe struck at this Kramer electric guitar that I couldn't keep my eyes off and asked if I could take it down from its pedestal. As a gentle giant that Mark was, he concurred and plug it into an amplifier, and I started jamming. I was crazy about this electric Kramer which played like a jewel. I played a rift I had created in the years that I had played guitar and he asked me to play it again. To my astonishment, Mark admired my rift asked me to forge on and to finish the song. Till this day, I haven't completed it. As I was chomping away on the guitar, Mark handed me a guitar magazine. He swiped through the pages and stopped on a page where Eddie Van Halen was holding the same guitar I held in my hand. He looked at me smiled and went on doing what he was doing. Apparently, all the famed rockers knew Mark and partied hard with him. From the likes of Motley Crue to Van Halen that came over to bark at the moon till dawn. I know he had regrets and I'm sure he would have done more and accomplished many feats if it wasn't for the arthritis. It was a pleasure to make you acquaintance Mark St. John. God bless and I know you are jamming on the other side. Btw.......KNAC rocks!!!

[@mikemojoitsolutions]

@edie5150 i too, had some time with mark in that very same garage at his folks house. very nice guy, very humble. and a fantastic player... i've heard what paul stanley said about him, paul sounds like a real assh*le with nothing nice to say about ANYONE. So, Fk him. i'll never forget when i met mark, i was at this female drummer's place just hanging out and messing around on an old acoustic, didn't know who he was, but comes over to me and says, "hey man, those are some pretty advanced techniques right there" looking back, thats the biggest compliment ive ever gotten...very cool dude, very sad when i heard of his passing. RIP

[@Edie5150]

⁠​​⁠ That’s great to know that you had a similar experience. And like you said, he was way cool and down earth. And he could shred big-time. 😊👍🏻🤘🏻

[@ruedigernassauer]

In the year 1989 there was a US-American one-issue magazine "Kiss Guitarists". It featured an interview with Mark St. John. He sounded disillusioned there and said he that didn´t like the tradition of Kiss stage names, though he´d keep his as he had grown to fame with it. RIP, Mark.

[@gordon9177]

yea, I remember that magazine, but forgotten what was mentioned in it. Remember the Kiss magazine that came out in the winter of '89-'91, it had a huge poster with each original member on it. I believe the cover was outline with Blue and a small picture of Gene in the top right/left corner.

[@philipmorris4843]

I became a KISS fan in 75 and Animalize is my favorite 80s album and very high on the list of my favorite KISS albums

[@jamieperdue8663]

Paul has nothing good to say about anyone in his autobiography.

[@mattskustomkreations]

Except Paul.

[@jamieperdue8663]

@@mattskustomkreations and maybe Tommy Thayer just to dig at Ace.

[@idjut1080]

Juicy stories in that book. Not a dull moment, look at it like that.

[@jemstar3388]

No one was safe, even Eric Carr was put in a bad light in his book.

[@ericandrews1661]

He's a jew

[@elGeant24]

Really awful what happened to him. I've heard recently about that tragedy while he was in jail, expecting what would happened. RIP Mark and thanks for your work on Animalize. I'm sure you're in a better place.

[@nitsujjustin]

Why was he in jail?

[@danbunge9787]

Mark was my good friend and I helped him record his demo and played drums triggering a Linn drum. Mark did not bounce around with other bands before Kiss. He taught at Lears Music in CA and studied with Allen Holdsworth. He was very much a jazz guitarist from the progressive or fusion style of guitar.

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Sorry my mistake! He had a great style!

[@richfredika7777]

Although raised on Alive I and II, I will always love this album and Mark's playing on it.

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Incredibly talented.

[@richhorton8898]

Saw Kiss Southampton England Oct 1984 ( With a young Bon Jovi opening) one year after seeing em in Poole England with Vinnie Vincent! At Southampton we soon noticed Mark St John wasn't onstage and wondered who his replacement was we soon found out was Bruce Kulick we saw with em for the next few years!! A tragedy bout Mark! Would have been great to see him perform!

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Wow, and yes very sad he couldn't keep it together.

[@riciron8824]

I find it hard to believe Paul's narrative that he couldn't play the same lick twice. He was a guitar teacher. I love Kiss but it also makes me think that Paul has fabricated a lot about some of the other members. If you listen to Paul recount, he sounds bitter and seems to blame everyone else, never even considering that maybe he had something to do with it.

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Could be!

[@Oliver-fv6tz]

You are 💯 right!!

[@arthurhall8238]

Keep thinking that....

[@ericandrews1661]

Jews are known to lie and steal.

[@loveiseternity]

Paul is great at PR but everything is everyone else's fault. He's a phony.

[@christophermurphy7113]

Based on the comments in Paul's book, I've always wondered: if Paul was so down on Mark and Vinnie, why did they each get the gig? One would have thought, even at that fairly low ebb of their career, that Gene & Paul could have been choosier.

[@MattTalksVinyl]

I know right? I often feel like we're not getting the full story from anyone

[@trevor-johnsen]

They "really knew how to pick 'em" back then. I get that Bob Kulick was bald, but change his name to Robert Lightning or something and make him wear a wig... or other such things... with anyone at all that they actually got along with. It was a very weird time for KISS

[@shaunclifton5281]

I will say, all you have to do is watch KZbin videos of Vinnie to see that thing is a Lifelong Trainwreck of epic proportions. He/ she is CREEEEEEPY.

[@jeffgerek6180]

If paul and gene had a problem with Mark and Vinnies playing why hire them,what they couldn't find another player?

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Totally, in their books they imply they had to find players as quick as possible but who knows.

[@jeffgerek6180]

@MattTalksVinyl there's a lot of hungry musicians out there that are fans would've loved the chance.

[@Duck_Dodgers]

They don't want people upstagging them

[@ingleringlet-snipps3rd449]

Vinnie Vincent is the unsung hero who saved KISS with the epic song, “Lick it Up.” KISS was on its last legs until Vinnie joined the band.

[@TheInnerPulse]

I love your channel man!❤🎉❤ And I had no idea he was even a member! My Dad is a huge KISS fan, and now I get to ask him about this. 😊 keep up the great work!

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Thank you very much! You keep watching em, I'll keep making em!

[@mattskustomkreations]

I had no idea about his jail term and sad demise.

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Ditto, most of the bios and docs tend to just briefly mention him.

[@mattskustomkreations]

@@MattTalksVinyl Yeah, I played steadily in rock bands in the 80s and early 90s. He was always just “the brief KISS guitar player with the bad hands”.

[@carolynrebeccadick3907]

Rest in peace Mark St John fly free 💐💐

[@davidzedner4286]

Maybe he truly didn’t know what he was signing up for…Dealing with PauI and Gene. One requires a certain kind of personality and temperament to be a hired gun in a band of that magnitude.

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Totally. Whenever a band is a period of transition it's usually those brought in who suffer. Just look at Jason Newstead.

[@davidzedner4286]

@@MattTalksVinyl That’s a fantastic observation and example! Coincidentally, I happen to be a huge fan of Kiss and Metallica, with a genuine interest in everything both of these bands do and have done.

[@ingleringlet-snipps3rd449]

@@MattTalksVinyl Yes, there is always a risk the new guy will become the scapegoat. That’s exactly what happened to Jason Newstead. To this very day, no members of metallica (lower case letters are intentional) have acknowledged this.

[@casey7309]

I met Mark in1976 wanting to hire my friend as lead singer "Mark Ballard" for his first band "Jaberwalkie" brother Mike on bass,Mark Norton lead drummer unknown it was a unforgetfull concert performance.I lived 20 houses from Mark the true is he wrote most all of Animalized that went Double Platinum Kiss never saw a Double Platinum before Mark wrote Animalized! Paul Stanley

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Wow! Thank you for sharing! Rock on 🤘😎

[@dw8840]

Reportedly Gene Simmons, when told about Marks passing, responded with "I dont care".

[@addickkelders2265]

The live recordings with St John sounds horrendous. The guitar playing on Animalize was the weakest in Kissstory. You can hear timing problems in the solo on I’ve had enough. It’s tumbling and falling.

[@deadlyoneable]

Damn. This is sad. Well, he at least did what 99% of us guys that play guitar never do or did. Make an album and play on such a premiere stage.

[@clayformations1638]

Sad story

[@MattTalksVinyl]

@Clayformations, totally. A sad reminder that it doesn't matter how talented you are, tragedy can happen to anyone.

[@clayformations1638]

@@MattTalksVinyl Very true. I'm super excited to see them live at the Hollywood Bowl this November. Another bucket list check!!!

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Groovy man! I was lucky enough to get to see the original 4 but Tommy and Eric are amazing in the roles!

[@clayformations1638]

@@MattTalksVinyl I bet that was an amazing concert! Would have loved to see the original 4!

[@Strutter72]

MSJ was the Right fit for Kiss “84 onwards MSJ deserved more opportunity.......

[@MattTalksVinyl]

totally

[@kenvorland]

Mark solos was manic but awesome

[@guitarizt68]

The comparison to Eddie Van Halen is both inaccurate and unfair, as anyone with even a modicum of musical intellect will tell you that Eddie WASN'T a "shredder", which is closer to the type of style Norton/St. John incorporated. Eddie was absolutely a guitarist who played with "feeling" and was NEVER concerned with every bit of a solo incorporating the "a-million notes-per-minute" approach, typified by shredders. Norton/St. John was closer to Vinnie Vincent in guitar-playing aptitude/approach than EVH.

[@trevor-johnsen]

I agree that Ed wasn't exactly a shredder as much as the guitarists in the genre borrowed so much of his style, and VH was the blueprint of sorts for that genre, he's simply been labeled as one in the aftermath...

[@gun_toting_lefty]

Did NOT know he passed away. So Sad. The only thing I knew about was the arthritis.

[@billmarshall2536]

Also take quotes from Paul Stanley with a large grain of salt!!

[@michaelcamm1863]

A sad story but it takes two maybe kiss wasn't for him and he wasn't for kiss simple as that they needed a guitarist asap and who wouldn't jump at the chance, it might have lasted longer if his illness hadn't have flared up, but still don't think he would have lasted too long in the band anyway and sometimes it's no one's fault it's just how it goes

[@grahamyoung3433]

'who wouldn't jump at the chance' - I'd rather hang myself of Brooklyn Bridge than be associated with those talentless clowns. Look at Thayer now, getting paid $300 a gig to wobble about the stage like a demented spaceman.

[@grahamyoung3433]

I think the biggest tragedy was Animalize, it was utterly horrendous.

[@pattyskiss2me1]

Amen to this!

[@grahamyoung3433]

@@pattyskiss2me1 Gene's acting in the 80's was better than this hideous garbage.

[@danthaman03]

Asylum was just as bad. At least Animalize had 3 good tracks.

[@WilliamCurry-bh3dk]

DIDNT know he OD WHEN DID THIS COME OUT

[@Duck_Dodgers]

Paul Stanley is bitter old woman

[@grahamyoung3433]

Tbh Peter and Ace are infuriating as well. Ace is like 72 and he's still crying about Thayer wearing his make up. He sounds like Kermit the Frog on Fentanyl dribbling on about - aaahhh m spaceman make up grrrrrrrrrrrr -

[@ryanbenbow-zx2sd]

@@grahamyoung3433 I Agree. Tommy Thayer Is a foolish man thinking he is ace frehly when he is not

[@grahamyoung3433]

@@ryanbenbow-zx2sd Paul says the spaceman is not a person, just a dehumanized serf-character for his profit. Ace is in the dustbin.

[@ryanbenbow-zx2sd]

@@grahamyoung3433 no he is not that is Bull crap. Not true Paul is a liar. As much As gene is

[@hervedelille2468]

The worst thing that happened to mark st john was to join kiss...he wasn't made for fame , success and its pression...the major league wasn't for him

[@MattTalksVinyl]

Totally. Very sad.

[@SN-nh6pq]

Paul Stanley’s book is beyond bullshit. Paul should have done a KZbin history lesson on himself before even attempting to write that book

[@MattTalksVinyl]

I feel like we've never gotten a consistent and accurate history of the band.

[@SN-nh6pq]

@@MattTalksVinyl. Matt…. Absolutely.

[@joshuak4372]

Mark ST John was influenced by Allan Holdsworth who ironically couldn’t play the same solo twice. This got him fired from UK

[@davidbarnhart7784]

I saw the Animalize tour. I thought he did a great job.

[@davidbarnhart7784]

Yep. Queensryche opened...I think it was a February. I never did get to see Bruce live. @@karlsalocks

[@Barbarian646]

​@davidbarnhart7784 how was Marks stage presence?

[@davidbarnhart7784]

@@Barbarian646 He had the same presence as a typical "new guy". He smiled, moved around, did the "thing"...

[@Barbarian646]

@@davidbarnhart7784 how did his solo's on Animalize sound live?

[@davidbarnhart7784]

@@Barbarian646 As if they were right off the record; I think that's KISS policy.

[@user-wq3fb9xp6f]

Great guitarist, and animalize,is my second favorite kiss album, second to creature's, of course.... .didn't know he was a troubled man,and down in the street like he was.....rest in peace, my brother.

[@jimilove7773]

Ace then Vinnie then Bruce. Period.

[@gordon9177]

So stuff, but I'm not buying into the Hand injury, never really have. he was on tour for a wk & 1/2, plays 3 shows 2 half shows/1full show, and develops arthritis. Doesn't make sense. Bruce was more of a fit and Mark wasn't. it's that simple.

[@troywindle8308]

He had nothing wrong with his hands, that would of been made up as an excuse

[@chriskroll4166]

Unfortunately the guy was a loser and he was not geared for success so it's too bad he chased success because like the old Chinese proverb says be careful what you wish for you may get it. So many other great guitar players out there that could have hooked up with kiss and gone along with the plan and gone much farther but Mark was lucky to be given a chance but he blew that chance. But you could never trust a junkie even when they recover . 😮

[@auburnman6969]

I saw Kiss’s Animalize tour with Krokus in Jan. Of ‘85. I guess Bruce had already replaced him by then. I honestly can’t remember.🤷‍♂️

[@MattTalksVinyl]

He really was a blink and you miss him on tour.

[@grahamyoung3433]

Not surprising, I guess it was a bunch of interchangeable clones since Vinnie.

[@Ricky-nz5tw]

Interesting 👍🏻

[@MattTalksVinyl]

thank you!