The Stroad: A Case Study // Intended (and Unintended) Consequences of Car-Oriented Street Design

Charles Marohn (Strong Towns) coined the word "stroad" (a portmanteau of "street" and "road") to describe roadway facilities that simultaneously attempt to function as urban commercial streets and high-speed, high-throughput motor vehicle thoroughfares -- and manage to fail miserably at both.
(For a more thorough walkthrough of what stroads are and why they might not be a great idea, check out the great primer from ‪@NotJustBikes‬ -- • Stroads are Ugly, Expe... )
In this video we'll dive into some of the key characteristics of these usually hideous arterials: too many travel lanes that are too long, with intersections that are too big and signal cycle lengths that are way too long. And we'll look at the consequences of typical stroad design: narrow, curb-tight sidewalks, infrequent and under-designed pedestrian crossings, fast food drive-thrus and other auto-oriented sprawl, and...lots and lots of billboards.
Check out these other CityNerd videos on urban traffic:
- Exponential Traffic: • Why Traffic Congestion...
- On Induced Demand: • Induced Demand & Roadw...
- Tunnels: • Traffic Tunnel Pros an...
Not Just Bikes' excellent primer on stroads (with telling comparisons to Dutch roadway facilities): • Stroads are Ugly, Expe...
Resources:
- Stroad entry from the universe's foremost clearing house for factual information: en.wikipedia.o...
Image Credits:
- Northern Spotted Owl By Hollingsworth, John and Karen; photo by USFS Region 5 (Pacific Southwest) - US Fish and Wildlife Servicedigitalmedia.fw..., Public Domain, commons.wikime...
Music:
CityNerd background: Caipirinha in Hawaii by Carmen María and Edu Espinal (KZbin music library)
Twitter: @nerd4cities
Instagram: @nerd4cities
Contact: [e-mail]

[@Overlord734]

Judging by the advertising, an average day of an average inhabitant of Las Vegas consists of washing their car, fueling and driving it, crashing into another person's vehicle, suing that person, and buying a new car.

[@Sp4mMe]

At least you can grab some fast food in-between.

[@CityNerd]

So good.

[@bbgun061]

Those businesses have to go somewhere. Where would you put them?

[@aegisofhonor]

while eating a burger they got from the many fast food joints on the strode they crashed their car on.

[@adventurefaps9571]

You forgot about the buying fast food thru the drive thru in their car, then eating that fasting also in the car.

[@NotJustBikes]

I literally had to watch this twice because I was laughing so much the first time. I'm really glad you made this video though, because I thought I was overdoing the dry sarcasm in my videos. You've just shown me that I should be doing more of it, not less.

[@DennisDeSlager]

Hi Jason, you here too? lol

[@chikitronrx0]

oh please :P

[@justinoboyle5767]

Please do more of it.

[@miguelbarov2241]

We need a collab between you two guys, the more dry sarcasm against stroads, the better

[@bobstroud9118]

@@miguelbarov2241 There but for the sake of an “a” go I.

[@JuanWayTrips]

I think what's even crazier is that these stroads end up having more lanes than actual highways...

[@saxmanb777]

7 lanes for one direction…yup.

[@georgobergfell]

Because they are bad at being a street and bad at being a road at the same time. Very inefficient traffic design. Edit: Also stroads are also bad from an environmental standpoint. Highways save gas by keeping the traffic flowing while these stroads are a constant stop and go.

[@CityNerd]

On the other hand, think what you could do with these amazingly wide rights-of-way!

[@jermaineraymer1579]

I think my favorite part are the stroads that have sidewalks that randomly end and give you nowhere to go but that NARROlW Strip between the white line and the ditch. @CityNerd - I think the videos need more sarcasm and dry humor

[@LucarioBoricua]

@@CityNerd There's major city boulevards, typically 6 and sometimes 8 lanes wide (outside intersections), in which the outer lanes are used for unauthorized curbside parking along business corridors. It would be safer and more efficient to close the outermost lane and turn it into curbside parking, and perhaps ideally slim down the remaining travel lanes from 12ft to 10ft (3.6m to 3.0m). That would result in a space saving of 8 to 12 ft (2.4 to 3.6m), which can be used to widen each sidewalk by 4-6 ft (1.2-1.8m).

[@tekuaniaakab2050]

I’d add strip malls as a part of the stroad environment. The nesting ground of species such as “Drug Stores”, “Generic Pizza Places”, and more “Nails Salons” than a city can probably support

[@p1mason]

This is very funny to me because strip malls (in all seriousness) are an outgrowth of the same logic as the stroad. Specifically, the primary design philosophy of a strip mall is to minimize the amount of walking that occurs. If the strip mall is functioning correctly, a customer will arrive in a car and park more or less right in the front door of the business they are patronizing. With a little luck, they will be able to traverse the frightful outdoors between the business entrance and their vehicle with less than five steps. In fact a properly designed strip mall should allow you to get from your bed to the nail salon and back again without being outside for more than 10 seconds in total.

[@DiogenesOfCa]

We have miles and miles of tattoo parlors and smoke shops in our beat down strip malls.

[@MrTaxiRob]

@@p1mason all of this is especially helpful in anti-human environments like Las Vegas

[@fabes89]

Don't forget low end liquor stores, Mattress stores, and DMV offices!

[@CityNerd]

Yeah, I kind of glossed over strip malls in this video (there's footage, but I didn't really dwell on it), but I totally agree. Don't forget vape shops!

[@zekecaldon5056]

Indicator species of a stroad: 20 cars waiting in a center left turn lane to get into a DQ. Also, getting lost in a signalized left turn lane because there are two of them.

[@MrTaxiRob]

you need to (grill &) chill bro

[@CityNerd]

On the one hand, 20 cars in the CLTL = traffic consultant that analyzed the drive-thru blacklisted by the city. OTOH, blizzards are objectively delicious, so what can you do

[@hobog]

@@MrTaxiRob there's nothing chill about stroads

[@MrTaxiRob]

@@hobog DQ has a lunch special you should check out sometime... at participating restaurants

[@psychic_beth]

"Left to their own devices, traffic engineers will always build New Jersey" - Justin Roczniak

[@stink1701]

A "well there's you're problem" fan? Or anything from Donoteat!

[@psychic_beth]

@@stink1701 WTYP mostly because Justin barely does anything on his own channel anymore

[@Default78334]

ALL TURNS FROM RIGHT LANE

[@vulcan_thunder]

Nice

[@PhillyBagel]

Is it still a stroad if it has jughandles?

[@coleslaw2394]

Coming from a transportation engineering perspective, it's a breath of fresh air (pun intended) to see people realizing the mistakes of the past and trying to design cities to be more efficient and human-friendly not car friendly. Thankfully the group in the company I work for take on projects that remove lanes instead of adding more to the struggling network like our highway group does

[@CityNerd]

There's a huge business in retrofitting these bad boys, that's for sure.

[@kevinmsft]

Isn't fast driving cars efficient? I think we need to consciously make priority decisions. If getting rid of Stroad is the highest priority, then accessibility and efficiency are *not* priority... All these very quaint, beautiful European cities were built 500 years ago when mode of transportation was different, and mainly built for Aristocrats and rich people... Just keep that in mind.

[@kain0m]

@@kevinmsft sounds like you've never been to Europe...

[@kevinmsft]

@@kain0m many times...

[@tessabakker662]

@@kevinmsft But it's extremely bad for the local economy. Cars that drive fast are cars that are not going to be parked nearby for the driver to go shopping, they are through-traffic that could have just as easily been routed *around* the city center. Cities are not liminal spaces, they should be destinations. The Dutch "autoluw" philosophy limits throughfare in city centers to encourage locals and visitors to shop on foot. In this setup, car traffic should, idealy, consist of destination traffic only (with cars encouraged to park within multi-story car garages). Autoluw traffic calming methodology discourages drivers who aren't in the area for the area itself from adding to city congestion, by making through traffic take more car-centric roads on the further-out bands of the city. It's been proven time and time again that limiting car throughput in city centers makes for better business, because bicyclists do not demand much road space (meaning 4 cyclists could fit in roughly the same amount of space that a car would demand, regardless of how many occupants it boasts - and the bicycle is over all a less hazardous object from the perspective of other road users, and makes for a quieter vehicle which also means more pleasant public spaces). Pedestrians will window-shop, and are generally more amiable to stopping by a local eatery or bar to get a bite or drink with friends. (Bonus: having fewer people driving cars in the city center will mean fewer people drunkenly stumbling out of bars and into their car to cause vehicular accidents.)

[@nathanielmackler7225]

I don't understand how people aren't getting walkability. In Silicon Valley, we closed the streets that make up downtown to cars in a bunch of our cities (Murphy in Sunnyvale, Castro in Mountain View, and I think University in Palo Alto as well). People love these places, and the parking garages next to all three of these downtowns (each and every one of which has a major CalTrain stop) are always full. Yet, when anyone talks about shrinking El Camnio Real, our arterial stroad which runs parallel to two freeways, it's shouting and screaming and loud opposition. Even a bus lane for the 522 Rapid gets shouted down. I do not understand how both these things are happening in the same places at the same times.

[@DiogenesOfCa]

Weird how all those places you mention have money.

[@CityNerd]

It's extremely weird how common it is for people to drive to and park at a place where they can walk around and enjoy a vibrant urban setting. I get it, but it's weird!

[@JasonMcCarrell]

@@DiogenesOfCa This. They have money, therefor they have power. A lot of the arterial stroad areas are poor as heck, and so the suburban white assholes bully them so they cna have their segregated shopping district. I live in Ottawa, and even though the entire ward is against a new ugly pencil tower in our little italy, it'll be passed, and without any opposition from council, because the rich ass suburban white blue-lives-matter idiots will vote yes on the project without a single consession. They want to shove the poors into our ward and they have the power to do it. The solution? activism and mutual aid. I imagine a place like Las Vegas much worst than Ottawa, and the poor inner city wards are likely stuck never getting any of their infastructure stuff passed.

[@nathanielmackler7225]

@@CityNerd In a way, the indoor mall is the ultimate example of this.

[@jmlinden7]

@@nathanielmackler7225 Actually I'd argue that Disneyland is the ultimate example

[@RobertBloomquist]

One of the main takeaways I got from reading Marohn's book, Confessions of a Recovering Engineer, was the curve of vehicle speed vs likelihood of pedestrian fatality in vehicle-pedestrian collisions, and I think it was around 19 miles per hour where a pedestrian is about 50% likely to die from the collision. I mention this, because for me, the main indicator of a stroad is token pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure (narrow sidewalks, painted but unprotected bike lanes, few and mostly unprotected crosswalks) combined with lethal vehicle speeds. Clearly, there is at least an admission that people are supposed to be able to walk here (unlike, say, highways, where bike and foot traffic are usually banned, at least in non-emergency situations), but are given little protection from cars. One example that stood out to me in your video was the bus stops, where the sides of the bus stop were angled inward because if they were squared like normal, they would take up the *entire* sidewalk and riders would have to move into the road just to enter the bus stop.

[@CityNerd]

The transit stop design is super-tortured. I feel for RTC -- they're working with what they've got, but people who ride transit just deserve so much more respect -- I have to make jokes to conceal my white-hot anger.

[@thexalon]

I think it was NotJustBikes who pointed out how North American excuses for bike infrastructure are designed so that if something bad happens with a car, any person on a bicycle in the bicycle lane is very likely to be severely injured or killed. But there are also stroads where there's clearly no conception of the idea that somebody might use anything other than a car to move from one place to another, e.g. author Bill Bryson describes a situation where he was on one side of the stroad and wanted to visit a shop on the other side, and it was abundantly clear through the lack of sidewalks, signalling, and crosswalks, that nobody had considered the possibility of somebody wanting to cross said stroad on foot.

[@KyurekiHana]

@@thexalon This is because in North America, cars are considered safer and more accessible by the general populace. Whenever such discussions come up, people tell me that not everyone can walk long distances or ride a bike, but everyone can drive. When I bring up I can't drive, they then switch to asking why I even attempt to live on my own, as if driving is an indication of whether one is an adult or a dependent child. Unfortunately, I personally think it all stems back to how easy it is to get and maintain a driver's license in the USA.

[@ethanstump]

@@KyurekiHana it goes further back than that. it has to do with the creation of the highway system as a way to maintain the economy after world war 2, ya know, when a ton of highly unstable murder machines called soldiers came back home and needed a way to keep busy while having Normandy flashbacks. not just bikes has a great piece where he talks about how there where many early cities that had great bike infrastructure until the great cargasm. car's are considered safer because the infrastructure was built so that was the case, and it was built so that was the case with the help of a hefty amount of lobbying and kickbacks on the behalf of the car industry, so that they could profit more. we have the most expensive system available, because that's what allows corporations to suck more profits out of you. neoliberalism baby.

[@onlycorner5565]

@@KyurekiHana capitalism is not inclusive if your population thinks about squeezing out more profits/numbers 5 times a day it begets exclusion zones blacks can live outside an landmark ,pedestrians cant perform the daily chores ,the safety of every living thing near those 7 lane things kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWqpeGh3h8SXrrs

[@realrobertdenby]

I lived in stroad-heavy Phoenix for six years and commuted the whole time as either a pedestrian or bicyclist. Not only are these types of stroad designs inherently hostile to anything but cars, but they also encourage open hostility to anyone who is not driving a car. It actually got to the point where I stopped wearing a bicycle helmet because I found that people were less likely to purposely buzz my bicycle in the bicycle lane or yell in my ear to try and scare me if I were helmetless. I mean how messed up is that? I risked a head injury to avoid vehicular bullying...oh yeah, and I was also hit by a car and shot with a dart in two other incidents.

[@LVRugger]

I was a bicycle commuter in Vegas. I feel your pain. I did similar - no helmet, wearing jeans, switched my clipless pedals so they looked like sneakers.

[@danieldaniels7571]

I’ve been a pedestrian in Phoenix now for over four months and vlogging about it here on KZbin. Phoenix actually has great bicycle infrastructure, but the trick is to not ride on the stroads, which for some reason many cyclists choose to do. Like… Don’t use McDowell or Thomas, use Oak, Palm or Earll instead, and whenever possible use canal corridors which have nice wide paths along them where cars are prohibited. In fact, most of the Arizona Canal even has underground crossings for most stroads making it effectively a bicycle highway from North Glendale to Old Town Scottsdale. Also the path was recently greatly improved along the Grand Canal, effectively making a bicycle highway from Steele Indian School park to Tempe. Add to this bicycle access on light rail and busses, and Phoenix is a very bikable city if you’re fit enough to handle the distances induced by the sprawl.

[@garcjr]

@@danieldaniels7571 I live in Phoenix too and that's spot on. Out here in Gilbert/Chandler/Mesa the speed limits are way too high and the stroads are hostile even when you're driving a car. Someone's always on your ass wanting you to do 20+ over. I used to live in Tucson for the life of me I never understand why cyclists choose stroads when there's a lot better alternatives in the bicycle blvd. network.

[@Drkbowers1]

@@danieldaniels7571 Wouldn't you say "If you can handle the distances" is a pretty big if, if not THE big if when deciding if a city is bikeable? Bikability means the average person could get around on a bike, not only the biking enthusiasts/athletes.

[@danieldaniels7571]

@@Drkbowers1 the average person can get around on a bike. Most things the average person needs is within a two mile radius of most any residence. But for those that desire to go farther distances, there are safe routes to do so valleywide, and a bike-friendly bus and rail network.

[@henrybrown6480]

This is a masterpiece, even by lofty CityNerd standards. Could not have been better

[@CityNerd]

I appreciate that -- it's different from my usual!

[@connecticutmultimodaltrans8226]

I agree!

[@KevinLynch1717]

Yes I second that

[@just_jon96]

I third that this is his best work!

[@keving5564]

Would have been happy walking away with the phrase "stroad on stroad violence," but you gave us so much more than that! Your commentary is top notch.

[@marcelmoulin3335]

Albeit a Dutchman, I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area in the '60s and '70s. I am all too familiar with these off-putting, soulless, deeply depressing stroads that are ubiquitous in the US. I left the US in 1986 to work in the UK. Upon retirement in 2018, I returned to my native Netherlands. I have found my rightful place in the world. I often feel as if I am in paradise in beautiful Middelburg. Despite the urban sprawl in this country, there are, fortunately, many lovely sites and places to savour. Pedestrian and cycle oriented town centres teem with activity, cafés, shops, flats, and historic buildings; they have an identity... a soul. Those elements are missing far too often in the US.

[@ethanstump]

i am living in the US. my soul missing is confirmed.

[@tannermalone278]

Can you talk about how to “de-sprawl” a city? A city like houston seems so reliant on a car that I wonder if there are any ways that we can reverse the massive suburban sprawl

[@LongBranches]

Love this video idea It would make for a great point of reference on grassroots urban reformation

[@MrTaxiRob]

You have to make cities attractive for people to live in. You have to build more than just dense housing, but services and green spaces as well. Block after block of five-over-ones is just gross. I imagine it would all be about finding the magic number of primates per hectare.

[@MatthewHoHiWorld]

Yes! A solutions video

[@CityNerd]

I'll put it on my list, but I'm not sure there's a snappy/sarcastic 12-15 minute video that would address this adequately!

[@hobog]

Allow mixed-use development, for one, and remove parking+offset minimums

[@carravogue]

My city has the worst stroad I have ever seen in my life so far: it's a 3 lane stroad with a 55 mph speed limit and endless strip malls directly to the right, no turning lanes so people are constantly slowing down to a near stop to turn into businesses, and on the left cars are streaming in from the parallel major interestate. The lanes are also extremely tight with barely any clearance between you and the curb.

[@wwsciffsww3748]

Sounds like half of Atlanta

[@passatboi]

Like Kingston Pike in Knoxville, which is US-11/70 that runs parallel to I-40 and is all strip malls and fast food.

[@MarisaClardy]

Are you talking by Austin? Cause it sounds like Austin.

[@jackfordon7735]

Sounds like Detroit, too. And Cleveland.

[@carravogue]

@@MarisaClardy it is in Texas - El Paso. I was used to stroad hell in AZ but this is next level awful infrastructure.

[@EricJCaraballoso]

I'd love to hear a solutions take on this. Like many, I recently discovered NJB's Stroads video that sent me down a rabbit hole, and now I realize why I hate driving in my town, even though I'd consider myself a car enthusiast. We just had an election in my town and the person who lost had some really great ideas for more pedestrian focused changes to our downtown, but they lost. I feel like not enough people know about this, and anyone who I do talk to, I don't have enough "ammunition" to say what we should do besides bringing out the bulldozers. Thanks.

[@sagoamicably6486]

as someone who loves cities and also loves cars, roads (not streets) are where cars are enjoyed. ways forward are 1) zoning changes allowing intesification to the next level (single-family home turning into a duplex or 4plex). 2) allowing multi-use buildings so denser communities can make cafes and corner stores without having to drive to 100% of activities. 3) this means streets need to be safer and slower. street parking and protected bike/walk lanes can help slow street traffic. 4) the main arterial stroad might evolve to become a road and start removing access slowly over time (organically, probably)

[@pappy9473]

The private and commercial vehicle dominance in the USA is scary. I love my bicycle(s) for quick trips to the bar, to the book store, to the convenience store, to the stationery store, to work...

[@CityNerd]

If you live somewhere where that's possible, consider yourself fortunate!

[@pappy9473]

@@CityNerd Dublin, Ireland. Not Northern European standards yet but getting there. Thank you for your contribution to the increasingly vocal global debate on better living.

[@p1mason]

I think those obstructed footpaths highlight something quite profound. Specifically, streets are the spaces between properties, belonging to everyone and set aside for the various uses and conveniences that everyone needs. The transit operator needs a place for people to wait, that's what the street is for. The electric company needs a place to string powerlines, that's what the street is for. Water utilities need a place to bury pipes, that's what the street is for. It's more than just pedestrians and cyclists, it's delivery drivers, the cable company, even the DOT who needs space to place directional and regulatory signage. Philosophically, we provide the street for all these people and uses. And yet.. And yet, a lot of people have this notion that the street is provided for cars. (Well they have that notion until the cable company wants to put a utility pole in the middle of their front garden - then suddenly they can think of a whole cornucopia of things that might be better off in the street). Seeing all these non-car uses crowded into the last metre between the carriageway and the property line just emphasizes the fact that "streets are for cars" isn't true. And it never was.

[@jreilly2213]

I live along "Street road" in the suburbs of Philadelphia and I think it is a quintessential stroad, even named appropriately.

[@Not_Sal]

If you make a solutions video, you should take a look at Queens Blvd, arguably the most infamous stroad in New York. It used to be called the boulevard of death, but over the years there has been many improvements to make it safer.

[@CityNerd]

Yeah, I reviewed Queens Boulevard briefly for Workhorse Streets -- but you're right, it would be interesting to do a Stroads success story, if such a thing exists!

[@camdentrain]

Great video! I really liked the "out in the wild" aspect. a video about solutions would be very exciting! I'd particularly love to see ways to turn Stroads into Roads. There are lots of examples and ideas that come to my mind when thinking about turning a Stroad into a Street, but going the other way seems to be a bit more involved. Thanks, and keep up the great work!

[@derekc5175]

To add to your point I think it would be interesting to see light rail considered in a video about solutions, specifically a road like MLK Way in Seattle before and after the light rail. It's definitely still a stroad but there's a lot of infill around stations and it feels a bit safer with slower speeds and reduced opportunities for dangerous left turns.

[@CityNerd]

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll put it on the list.

[@hobog]

@@derekc5175 the light rail there is now too high in demand to be compromised by so many level crossings, but I know it's the first stretch opened so it couldn't have been built otherwise

[@bootmii98]

Make it happen to CA-1 between Princeton and Moonridge, it's on the "road" end of the stroad spectrum (for now) but the constant lights and driveways are just...

[@NathanRixThroughGlass]

A City Nerd and Road Guy Rob colab would be interesting

[@prestoncline9391]

Yes lol

[@Theincredibledrummer]

The tonal clash between loud, enthusiastic and very american vs dry, intellectual humour would be awesome. Definitely down for it

[@passatboi]

That's when they work together in the same laboratory, right?

[@edwardmiessner6502]

Or a triple collab with Not Just Bikes: American enthusiasm + dry, educated wit + educated reasonable takedown

[@michaelthomas8677]

The most absurd stroad animal I've seen: a chain of dental clinics with multiple locations along a single stroad. I saw this on a family road trip while passing through a big Texas city (Houston?). For some reason a major interstate in the city was closed and we ended up taking an unbelievably long stroad across the city and its suburbs. For more than an hour along this stroad we counted at least 7 instances of all the chains: McDonalds, Wendy's, CVS, and... that chain of dentist clinics with their big gray signs showing a picture of a tooth! The franchises kept repeating among a streetscape filled with strip malls. A fun thing we experienced: somewhere in the city the lights were timed such that for over 10 blocks just as we arrived at a red stop light it'd turn green. It was so dependable that Dad would snap his fingers and the light would change. A whole line of stop lights (on a weirdly empty stroad) timed to go green one by one in a big long line. The whole minivan was thoroughly amused! It's a bit surreal to remember this now!

[@frafraplanner9277]

That traffic light phenomenon is called "signal progression" or a "green wave"

[@danieldaniels7571]

That’s how traffic lights are supposed to work. Unfortunately in most places they aren’t timed that well.

[@donaldjmccann]

20 years ago I rode my bicycle from Morro Bay, CA to Palm Beach, FL. Over half of my trip was done on the I-10, Passing through El Paso, Phoenix, Tucson, San Antonio, Houston, New Orleans. Mobile, Pensacola, Tallahassee and Gainesville. If I wanted to shop, I had to lock my bike in my motel room and try to get to a shopping centre on foot, that was typically only accessible by car. 15 years later I moved to Haarlem in the Netherlands, where everything was accessible by bike. The difference could not be more pronounced. The USA is made for cars, while Holland is made for people. I applaud you trying to get this message across.

[@CityNerd]

Thanks for sharing -- great comment!

[@angusb99]

“Placed that spell Town with an E” lol that line made me laugh because it’s pretty accurate as far as what I’ve seen, even being in the opposite site of the country

[@UserName-ts3sp]

or "shoppes", as one of my local shopping centers calls itself

[@iman2341]

Actually belly laughed at the 45mph zebra crossing.... How on earth is that allowed!

[@jobw]

In France there are many pseudo zebra crossings as well on busy arterial roads.

[@CityNerd]

There's literally a widely-used government report (NCHRP 562) that explicitly tells you that untreated crossings on 45 mph streets are awful. It shocked me to see it.

[@jamesreitz3293]

Fabulous video! Loved every minute! I grew up between two Stroads in outer borough SE Portland (between McLoughlin Blvd 99E and 82nd Ave Hwy 213). Both Stroads were deadly for bus riders, pedestrians and bike riders! I loved the comments about injury lawyer bill boards! Really scary crossing these streets. The worst Stroads I have ever seen are in greater Kansas City (NW Barry Road and NW Prairie View in front of the Zona Rosa shopping center and Metcaff and 117th in Overland Park). Good luck crossing those intersections as a pedestrian! Thanks for the insights!

[@eliteultra9]

I believe a good way to quickly have this stroads to proper streets would be to add a BRT with dedicated lanes. This is what my state did to some huge stroads with 6 lanes going each direction. 2 Brts lanes going each direction and increase sidewalk size

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

I think 2 lanes either direction is the upper limit for walkability and at that width, a signal with a median is needed for pedestrians to feel comfortable from my experience. So to me a 2 lane(4 lane both direction) is the target goal if we want to downsize a stroad. As you said, have the two center lane on either side turn to BRT lanes which may mean widening the median too. Eliminate the right turn lane and turn it in to a widen sidewalk. The right most through lane turn into a protected bicycle lane. And the lane next to that can be used for street parking to protect said bicycle lane. So from the video's 7 lane, it is now a 3 lane road in each direction. Which is going to be about as good as it is going to get I think. The reduced car capacity would be easily made up with the new BRT line and the enhanced pedestrian/cycling infrastructure.

[@mariusdufour9186]

Or just build light rail instead. BRT is such a half-arsed solution, it's still just a bunch of busses, but now they get their own lane, which is better than having them run in traffic. Similar or higher max capacity, lower operating cost per passenger (fewer drivers per passenger thanks to larger vehicles), and vehicles that last longer (no tires, no internal combustion engine, means less vehicle maintenance cost). Also, powered by electricity without the need to lug massive batteries around.

[@MrTaxiRob]

@@mariusdufour9186 BRT is about lower infrastructure cost. Converting existing lanes is often just a matter of repainting the lines. CNG buses aren't as terrible as diesel, you can do articulated buses all day and increase capacity of each by 50% SRO. That's a lot cleaner than city buses in traffic. And you could even electrify them if you want, not sure how long it would take to recover the cost on that but the lack of emissions would be a nice bonus.

[@mariusdufour9186]

@@MrTaxiRob Indeed the upfront cost is lower, but not everything is about upfront cost. If a city is serious about providing reliable public transport long term, rudimentary BRT should be a short term, temporary solution while the light rail system is being worked out, at least on the main lines of your system. The problem is that once you start incrementally improving infrastructure for your BRT (beyond some painted lines), you're going to add raised platforms, lane dividers etc. Basically locking in it's right of way. And then when you want to step up to light rail, you'll be forced to follow the alignment of your bus lanes or to start from scratch. Converting an existing BRT system into light rail always results either in a sub-optimal light rail system (the 'cheap' option), or in a light rail system that costs just as much as it would have if you had built it from the start. If you're going to be providing high capacity public transport on main arteries, the investment in light rail or tramways will more than pay for itself in the long run over BRT, even if we disregard environmental impact, trams and light rail are just so much more cost-efficient to operate once the system is built.

[@plattypus42]

Unfortunately, the county signed a franchise agreement with a private company who is exploring a privately-funded light rail line on Charleston, and until that inevitably implodes, there won't be any high capacity transit on the corridor. Keep in mind, these are the same county officials who were impressed by Musk's absurd Tesla tunnel.

[@jimbo1637]

I'd love to see a "solutions" video cause to be honest, I have no idea how you'd go about fixing the typical North American strode....

[@Patrick_from_Youtube]

"Stroad on Stroad violence" lmao, I love these videos so much.

[@harktischris]

the idea of an "indicator species" for stroads is hilarious and also made me realize the stroads i have in my local environment.

[@juliocorrales8628]

Being a native Vegas sociologist you just blew my mind! Incredible to see how proper urban planning could have potential positive impact on the upward mobility of our population. Thank you for all of your videos!

[@chuck2453]

I'd love to see a video on solutions and retrofits for these type of areas. Especially how do you balance the need to move people through the area efficiently without turning it into a wasteland and techniques traffic engineers can use to support that without blowing everything out.

[@Carmen4ever]

As soon as you said something about the algorithm sending us over from not just bikes, I subscribed. I absolutely love these kinds of videos. My city is strange, we have a bit of everything. Some of the streets are somewhat inconvenient for drivers, because most of the road is dedicated to pedestrians/bikers. Then, there’s streets that are posted 45mph with a 2 foot wide sidewalk with heavy foot traffic. Then, it’s gridlock, with somewhat acceptable walking conditions, and comfortable driving conditions. Don’t even get me started on the suburbs, in my city, there’s 2 kinds. The flat suburb, and the mountainside suburb. I do food delivery, I drive a lot, and I have seen it all. The amount of planned obsolescence, is extraordinary. Don’t get me wrong, I love a freshly paved highway, I couldn’t ask for more. But driving in the city shows just how Terrible city planning can be. Anyway…. F*ck Strodes! Why do we need suburbs to be 7 miles away from the nearest anything. Come on. We can do better. These engineers are so far from reality.

[@Carmen4ever]

And yes, I think you should do a solutions video. Im excited for whatever content you provide, judging by how perfectly this video was put together. I even got riled up about the 7 STREET LIGHTS! what????? I was shook.

[@govtpeaches]

This is the best. It's all the best parts of being in grad school -- a hilarious classmate explaining the world to you, making you laugh, and permanently adding to your mind's toolkit. Where's the accent from? Did he go to my high school?? Love it.

[@corbenhavener7531]

I’m in Indiana and a lifelong Hoosier. Our stroads mostly don’t bother with mast arms. It’s mainly all about the span wire. Nothing like seeing traffic signal heads bounce around in a windy day.

[@adamcapets]

If there's one thing I'd like all jurisdictions to quit doing is using span wire. Every signal looks temporary!

[@CityNerd]

Some of the nicest traffic signals I've ever seen are in -- wait for it -- Tijuana.

[@contentedbuddha]

Your snark is unrivaled, thanks for a great video 😂😘

[@juliansmith4295]

Your dry wit is the only thing that made it possible for me to watch this without throwing up. God these places are hideous.

[@matthewdavis4629]

Yes, I would love a solutions video. I would like to hear your opinions on how to make car-centric sprawl more walkable and transit orientated.

[@enjoyslearningandtravel7957]

Yes agreed, I’d like to see and live in A more walkable area and more transit orientated. I become very stressed driving with drivers who are drunk, paying attention to their phones, paying attention to anything but driving. Or driving too fast and weaving

[@jasonreed7522]

Solution 1: if you really need to have a stroad the most it should be is 1 lane each way with a turning lane (suicide lane) and place the sidewalk 3-6 feet back from the curb so its atleast viable to walk down. Ideally you don't build stoads but this is the most palatable hybrid for the weirdos who don't find a 4lane road with people going 40+ stressful even as the driver. In my hometown Mainstreet is a total of 4 lanes because it is also a US route and several state routes merged into 1 and the turning lanes are very useful for keeping the traffic free flowing and not intimidating. In the nieghboring town there are a couple of 4 lane roads including a proper stroad on outer market street but the traffic isn't bad cause the towns are population 6,000 ish each and the nearest interstate is an hour drive away. (And its paradise, although car dependency is kinda a given for such low density rural areas. But the county does have a bus service that is probably insanely underused) What everyone, including traffic engineers get wrong about the interstate is that its not meant for civilians, it was built because in 1900 it took 60days to drive from NYC to LA, then 2 world wars happend and president Eisenhower (who drove on that test that took 60days, and on the german Autobahn) created the interstate for national defense reasons. Then the 60s happened and they got built in places they don't belong (cities).

[@MrTwostring]

I've watched a few of your videos. The dry humor in this one was NEXT LEVEL.

[@TessHKM]

I have honestly never in my life seen a "school zone" with a 25 mph speed limit *while the lights are flashing.* Every school zone I've ever seen is 15 mph. That's horrifying lol

[@CityNerd]

Yes, it's very weird. Maybe they think (probably correctly) there's no hope of compliance here with a 15.

[@jasonreed7522]

My school was 20 which is reasonable for how far back it was set from the road and it had crossing guards. (Also a small town and not a main road so a bunch of kids walked if they lived in town and all schools should be expecting students to walk/bike to school and locate themselves accordingly) The idea of placing a school on a main road/stroad is crazy to me, and at a minimum a fence should be put up along a busy road that would be problematic.

[@InternetNewZealand]

Hello from New Zealand. There are lessons here for our cities. Thank you

[@ozgirl45]

Delightful video - a really high level of snark this week. Well, now I know that there is a name for these places. Who knew? They are often also home to mattress stores and nail salons. And, yes, I would like to see your solutions!

[@CityNerd]

Mattress stores! How could I forget!

[@terraincognita3749]

The bit at the end, with all the injury and accident lawyers, really hit home. It is a sobering insight that such a massive industry can live off the traffic follies of a city like Las Vegas. It is even more sobering that they are so blatant about it, screaming it from the rooftops.

[@seannajera1265]

Las Vegas definitely wins the "Weird Lawyer" billboard prize. In comparison, Philadelphia ads just have people in suits, lame. One of them is just a tshirt dude riding a motorcycle with flames in the background. If it didn't say LAWYER on it, you'd think it was an ad for Harleys

[@riblets1968]

Sardonic wit throughout on a topic that richly deserves it. Well done, sir! I very much enjoyed this video.

[@Jondude11]

This video was beyond brilliant. Thank you for this!

[@foreverspice1982]

I watched STROADS from Not Just Bikes ages ago (the algorithm failed to point me to you) … in Toronto (you are so excited to get ANOTHER Toronto comment from me) *EVERYTHING* north of Eglinton, west of Jane or east of Leslie [*] is a STROAD. The "original city" (broadly defined as INSIDE the Waterfront-Jane-Eglinton-Victoria Park borders) are the inner suburbs: Scarborough in particular, North York and Etobicoke notably secondarily as they are older; of the City of Toronto. Some more egregious than others, but bless my soul, I have never seen [in Canada] SEVEN lanes in one direction on a "street" featuring multiple DEDICATED lanes to LEFT and RIGHT turns!

[@alejandrocastillotrujillo6055]

This video is a true masterpiece

[@claudiasquietwalk]

I keep remembering this video and had to come back and rewatch it! It's my favorite of all your videos! The "ecosystem" approach is delightfully playful and sarcastic - while on a deeper level it's hauntingly accurate. When you described vehicles as the "apex predator," it was a moment of clarity for me that took me to the next level. I never liked the prevalence of cars, but you really elucidated what I think is ultimately the MAIN problem with cars: That they are a constant threat to life and limb in our public space. As soon as you step outside your door, you have to start nervously looking over your shoulder constantly worried about this apex predator that might attack you at any time, or your children, your dog or your cat. I really think it underlies a general sense of insecurity and paranoia that permeates daily life now. We can hardly imagine anymore what it might be like to not be under constant threat from this roaming predator.

[@aaronfield7899]

"The point is it's very telling that the price of billboard advertising space on these crash-prone facilities appears to bid up by an industry that makes more money when there are more crashes." Someone call an ambulance, I'm dying.

[@CityNerd]

OK, but call one of those lawyers first

[@IvyANguyen]

Philly has a dangerous 'stroad' infamous for accidents at 2 of its intersections: Roosevelt Blvd. The intersection at Grant Avenue & another one at Red Lion Road made #2 and #3 nationwide worst intersections several years back according to State Farm. The Blvd is known to be a tough place to drive, with inside and outside sections that resemble mini highway exits when you try to exit the middle lanes to the outer lanes.

[@sonnystaton]

Unless you change the housing density issue, the other changes to get rid of stroads is futile. The natural progression of suburbs to dense cities was artificially arrested by 1950s philosophy zoning. Suburbs always existed, but property value increased as access to the city became more demanded, & suburbs organically became part of the city. But zoning keeps aging suburban property owners from expanding their property into multi unit properties of multiple stories.

[@Earth1218]

Your videos are a master class of sardonic delivery. Dry with just a touch of burning disgust for urban planning malpractice. I was about to mention personal injury lawyer billboards when you asked for more examples. I should have known.

[@Zedprice]

Thanks for this video giving a more indepth look at stroads! I am starved for this content; I can't just keep rewatching NJB videos!

[@maidbloke]

6:50 yay! Bikes on the front of a bus! No wonder, there's nowhere safe to actually cycle them. And how do you get a wheelchair down that obstructed sidewalk? A truly dreadful place to travel if you don't have a car. 😳

[@macspresso]

Oooh - I like when you get sarcastic! I was prepared to add an idea to indicator species list: Fragments of tail lights (evidence of the ubiquity of crashes), but I think your personal-injury-attorney-billboards one fully encompasses the same and goes so much further to highlight the insane dynamics at play. Great video! Other indicators that come to mind: noise floor (I bet above 80 dB), flashing lights from business windows, liquor stores, bike lanes with years of road sediment accumulated in them (and no cyclists), a center curb designed to inhibit left turns...

[@CityNerd]

Ha, I DID leave that out! There's crazy amounts of debris on streets like this -- pretty clear evidence of mishaps-by-design, but it just gets swept to the side -- or not swept at all.

[@allws9683]

What I don't understand with so many stroads in US is : Why do they build the houses and businesses with the driveway to the stroad ?! Why ?!... In Holland you'll find Ring roads and 2x2/3x3 roads, but usually residential houses and business are built with their back towards the 'stroad' (bordered with bushes or a earth/concrete wall). You have to leave the stroad and enter a neighbourhood or a commercial/business park. And if there are houses/shops towards the road there will be , separated by a tree lined grass/hedge strip, low speed parallel street with driveways and parked cars (and useful for bikes too..). Last year's US election night I had been watching (the totally non-explanatory crap on) Fux News. What astounded me was how much (incredibly agressive) ads there were. Mostly on cars, medication/insurance and legal services.... This video explains well how these are connected..😬....🙄

[@UserName-ts3sp]

many of the houses were there prior to big development coming in. as for businesses... yeah i dont get that. usually you can access them in some way from an off street or parking lot though

[@ethanstump]

foax news is an American Dante's inferno. since tv is going the way of the dodo, the lowest quality stuff goes there to die. also the lowest information and lowest iq person actually takes it seriously.

[@livablecity]

I love your humor! I wish you do more of such unstructured humorous critique videos!

[@MrKyledane]

That is a great take about the personal injury lawyer billboards. Spot on.

[@xymaryai8283]

it is an immense compliment to say either you have SuperfastMatt's style of humour or the other way round

[@yuriydee]

Solutions video would be interesting. Id like to know what are some realistic changes we can start with, because obviously we cant get rid of all stroads over night :(

[@jasonreed7522]

A basic step 1 is sometimes called a "diet road" which basically just means take a 4 lane stroad (2 each way) and reduce it to 1 each way + center turning lane (aka sucide lane). This is proven safer than a 4 lane stroad. As a bonus you get to remove 1 lane worth of width from the road for whatever you want including just buffer space as shoulder between the old danger sidewalk and the new white line. (Crappy painted bike gutter anyone?) As for any stroad with over 4 lanes total just find a way to steal lanes back from the cars for any other purpose like dedicated bus & service vehicles, bike lanes, wider sidewalks, ect. Part of the problem is that the immediate off ramp of every highway is always a stroad, sometimes its the genuine middle of nowhere which is honestly better.

[@jolly7728]

Stroad vids are great! Many of us have wondered for years why we scoff at driving our cars and bikes -- or even walking outside of our upscale, secluded, suburban neighborhoods and gated communities. We thought something was wrong with us. Now, thanks to these vids, we know it's the stroads and the inescapable and persistent challenges they bring to our daily lives. But, somehow, they must be good for businesses, making it possible to try to live the "American dream." At least we have that to work toward. And in big countries like Canada and the United States, there certainly are many places where you could live and almost never encounter a stroad. If you can make living comfortably in a remote area a reality, this might be a good way to go, as I don't see and why a municipality would be motivated enough to make significant changes to the "stroadification" of our urban areas.

[@andrepoiy1199]

What's interesting is that in Toronto, for newer stroads, the sidewalk isn't right up against the curb, there's always a little strip of grass in between, I guess that's for storage of snow. That small strip of grass also makes it just a teeny bit less scary to walk on since the cars aren't literally one feet away. And also allows for bus stop space.

[@nahuelma97]

The deadpanness of your delivery reminds me of Don Keefer and I love it

[@Droidman1231]

I thought the road was just recently paved at first, but it looks like they never paint actual lines on the streets in Las Vegas? I couldn't imagine ever road I drove or walked on just having the little white bumps instead of actual painted lines, especially in low visibility weather.

[@plattypus42]

Fortunately, it's rare for us to see low visibility weather. Ironically, the only lane markings they paint are bicycle lane markings, which means drivers treat them as "right tire here" lines and they get covered in rubber. Would love for some dots on the bike lanes!

[@pghrpg4065]

They are called Botts' dots and were invented by Caltrans. They're not generally used where I live, but I kind of like them as a driver.

[@joshvaughan3403]

I'd be interested to learn about other countries that have stroads outside of US/Canada. I assume there are at least a few places that have them

[@jasonreed7522]

Basically anyone who saw 1960s america as something to emulate, which means most of europe, mexico, and the middle east all have areas with stroads. (Even the modern "developing world" is following our terrible lead on car infrastructure) Which is unfortunate but many places are wising up on just how terrible they are. (Like Amsterdam)

[@Colin-i9z]

i admire all the field work you do, i don't think that most people who want to follow the urbanist content creator career path would willingly move to las vegas, even out of spite to live car free

[@passatboi]

Surprised you didn't rant about the lack of a subway from McCarran airport (now Harry Reid) directly down the strip with stations at all the casinos. That would eliminate 90% of the traffic from the airport to the strip and on the strip itself. And each casino could pay for its own station. It's a totally logical move that will never ever happen because....car and taxi/limo lobby. Ugh. They'd rather build pedestrian overpasses. And don't get me started on the useless monorail off the strip which COULD HAVE been on the strip. But nooooo.

[@pureessenceofgaming1745]

I thought rideshare companies was killing those lobbies.

[@passatboi]

@@pureessenceofgaming1745 No - I just talked to an Uber driver there and the limo/tour bus and taxi associations are even more powerful than the casinos, apparently!

[@balrogslayer6824]

Absolutely smashing. Informational and had me rolling at the same time. I've never been so excited to learn about urban infrastructure.

[@josiahclagett1105]

I personally would love a solutions video!!!! How do we fix this? Also the dry humor here was more satisfying than the office 👌

[@cartersa8758]

I’d really appreciate a solutions video. I live in Terre Haute, IN and the town is simply failing. There are a few of us that want this town to thrive but we don’t know what we don’t know. Transit is terrible, our main drag is a stroad, and the town sprawls for miles. I’d love to run for mayor one day but before that, I’d like to learn more about urban infrastructure from city planners and the like who have paved the way. Thank you for the content! I recently found you from KZbin’s algorithm and I’m happy to have been led here.

[@boxrick1]

A couple of years ago I was in Vegas. Coming from the UK we saw we needed to move a mile and thought yea no problems we will just walk it, will take under 20 mins no problems. Literally took us an hour to walk it because of all the awful long waits ( and ludicrously short) pedestrian crossings and insane out of the way bridges. Horrible place to be

[@CityNerd]

The signal cycle lengths are completely out of control.

[@uj1xt5m98ap]

I was laughing, cringing and horrified - all at the same time. And now I have a new reason to hate right lanes. Bravo!

[@colormedubious4747]

Stroads: because you never know when a 747 might need to make an emergency landing in the midst of a busy city.

[@CityNerd]

The key to smart engineering is to build everything in the human environment to withstand a ten-standard deviation black swan event.

[@colormedubious4747]

@@CityNerd That's EXACTLY why my house on the Texas Coastal Bend has a steep roof to shed heavy snow loads and is otherwise avalanche-proof and why my house in the driest part of the Hill Country was built atop piers. Not merely smart -- the smartiest!

[@prospectelectric2201]

love the irony that the youtube ad interrupting the video was for big pickup trucks

[@RizeeyRee32]

"U turning a wind turbine tractor trailer - That's how you know you're doing it right" 😂😂😂

[@verdiss7487]

The existence of those personal injury billboards probably helps contribute to more injuries, simply by way of distracting drivers cruising through a city space at 45 mph. Definitely a good investment!

[@charger875]

Seattleite and new subscriber here -- funny thing about the Climate "Pledge" arena is that the adjacent street is a pretty fast 3-lane one-way with no bike infrastructure! Hooray! At least it's attached to the Seattle Center, but that itself is just surrounded by pedestrian-punishing infrastructure.

[@CityNerd]

I lived in Lower Queen Anne for a couple years -- I like a lot of aspects of the neighborhood, but it really hasn't gotten any better for biking, has it.

[@puffpuffin1]

Liar. 1st Ave N has 2 lanes and a bike lane.

[@timothybishop9830]

Stroad on stroad violence is my new favorite phrase.

[@joshuapage4055]

Solution video please!!!

[@johnslyfield5096]

Los Angeles, Venice boulevard near Culver City. About 10 years ago this was a classic stroad. Car oriented mess. Now they’ve put in a bus lane they’ve put in a bike lane and it’s a nice street where all users can safely use for transportation. I was away for ten years and everything changed.

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

The best part of a Stroad is where a sidewalk just ends... no warning just bam nothing but curb. Then maybe half a mile or more later it starts up again as if nothing ever happened.

[@jimzecca3961]

It's important to note that stroads pretty much form and evolve rather than being designed. Often it's a stretch of a state road or US highway that is a business district for a suburb and over time it extends and often merges with neighboring towns. By the time traffic starts to be an issue there are three major problems. One, it has become a thoroughfare for traffic passing through it to go to towns on the other side. Two, there are many businesses along the route and there will be resistance to measures to divert traffic elsewhere. Three, it's so built up there's no space to convert it to a limited access road (or do things like add a rail line) versus one with a series of traffic lights without incurring significant expense.

[@MeTheOneth]

The magical disappearing sidewalk, which just ends in an unpassable obstacle. Lucky you, there's a sidewalk on the other side of the road. The nearest crossing is a ten minute walk back the way you came. Accessible!

[@adamt195]

Indicator species: Slip lanes. Indicator species: Flex posts being used to mark the edge of turn lanes because people kept crossing the solid yellow line too close to the intersection to get into a some business' driveway. Indicator species: No business sharing a parking lot with another business, except for really large strip malls with a large anchor store. Usually a national chain grocery store or clothing store. Indicator species: drivers running waaaaayyyy long on a yellow left turn arrow until it turns red, and then 3 more cars go. The 4th car stops, and the 5th car honks at the 4th car for not running the red.

[@CityNerd]

These are all too good. Segregated parking lots...I can't tell you how much pain those have given me in my professional life.

[@ericbruun9020]

Boy, I wish this came out a few weeks ago, too late to reference in my forthcoming book!

[@Marko343]

The wine turbine tractor trailer measurement needs to be a standard for stroad designation.

[@sheakennedy1745]

I really like this guy's voice for some reason.

[@julianpowers594]

The injury lawyers’ building off to the side is like some Monty Python sketch

[@bagenstb]

Your funniest video yet. Well done!

[@matthewross5090]

Your humor is as dry as Lake Meade and I love it 😂

[@tristancassel8986]

My folks live in NW LV, Centennial area, and I've noticed when visiting that there are more injury lawyer billboards per square mile than anywhere else I've ever been.

[@ryanduffy6089]

This video described my college campus in Tucson pretty well

[@tacitdionysus3220]

The stroads of Australia are similar though, being marsupial, are substantially bereft of law firm signs. These are compensated for by numerous bulky goods stores, used car yards, the occasional drive-in bottle-o (liquor store, usually Dan Murphys) and Bunnings (think 'Home Depot' with charity sausage sizzles on Saturdays).

[@zzz6valvoline]

Man this was depressing AF.

[@fshbulb1]

Don't know why, but I get a lot of John Green energy in this. At least the energy he exudes when he's just so done with the state of the world. Keep up the good work ✌️

[@WeeklyGoodies]

You should check out Capitol Drive in Milwaukee. It’s an absolute nightmare of a stroad where crashes happen everyday. And the intersection with fond du lac Ave is the absolute scariest one to turn left on.

[@faenorsjewel5618]

"If the algorithm sent you my way, you've probably seen it already" Take my sub