The Studio That Banned Their Own Game

This is the story of a developer, plagued by legal issues, that had to take their own game down from major stores to keep money from the publishers they had hired to sell the game...
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[@Salahdin89]

UPDATE: On January 2, 2024, Frogwares announced that they became the sole publisher of the game for all platforms, resolving its legal dispute with Nacon. [Wikipedia]

[@pjtrant]

Frogwares is an excellent small studio that is going through a rough time now as they are based in Ukraine. They are also the makers of the Sherlock Holmes games. We should support these kinds of studios whole heartedly.

[@AmbushBug522]

Ignore the first reply. It’s an obvious scam bot. Just report it and move on.

[@shanemathre]

I love frogware:) I actualy did what I could to help the devs :)

[@ipadair7345]

@Kyle Schmidt try being black and going go Russia gurantee you would hagve different thoughts.

[@dmitriantonov2611]

@Kyle Schmidt you're black? Damn looks can be deceiving.

[@dmitriantonov2611]

@@ipadair7345 its all the same people, more or less. The difference between Russia and Ukraine is like that of United States and Canada. Source: my heritage is Russian-Ukranian. PS. While in these countries being black actually does mean being a minority (unlike how in the states where a white man moves into Baltimore or Bronx and becomes one), being a black Russian or black Ukrainian is not unheard of.

[@Paul_McSeol]

I thought the game was enjoyable. Not amazing but a good time and an interesting story. This lawsuit is bananas by comparison and I hope it gets worked out so that the right people see profits.

[@sub-jec-tiv]

It was *so* close to being a good game. Decent writing, good art direction. Just something slightly off throughout, and the ending was deeply unsatisfying. Still enjoyed playing much of it. But it was almost maddening how close it was, you can see the great game in there, they probably just didn’t have enough time to polish the game.

[@DitisEmile]

I have been following this story from nearby for a long time, as I've been a big Frogware supporter from their early Sherlock Holmes games. Their games tend to be a bit buggy, but very charming, and they put their whole heart in it. The Sinking City is one of my favorite games by them to date, and this case infuriated me.

[@MDMDMDMDMDMDMDMDMD]

Is it cool to buy the Steam version now?

[@KahNabiz]

I "literally" platinumed this game (PS4), I just LOVE lovecraftian horror. I've zeroed most of the cosmic horror games I've found, this crap about this game is sad You can feel all the effort used in the game, the atmosphere of the city, the monsters, stories.. Everything is really done with care.

[@beefedcorn]

what other lovecraftian games are there?

[@prostheticcat8574]

@@beefedcorn Bloodborne

[@SevenHunnid]

Sometimes i feel guilty because i review weed products on my KZbin channel as my job , what do you think?

[@beefedcorn]

@@SevenHunnid nigga

[@mattj2692]

@@beefedcorn call of Cthulhu, dark corners of the earth, those are the only ones I know are "officially" based on Lovecraft's work but there are tons that take inspiration from him.

[@ScytheNoire]

I was interested in the game because of the theme and story, and then it disappeared and remember reading about this drama. You'll have to update us on the final court decision in a few years.

[@cfighter95]

I was positive this was gonna be about Aeon Must Die. Crazy how this happened to two games recently, never would have guessed The Sinking City was in a somewhat similar boat.

[@logansaxby7224]

Jokes aside...🤪

[@adamhanna1452]

Good news for those on PC, you can just pirate it until frogwares benefits from you purchasing it! If you like it, buy it. If you don’t like it , don’t buy it!

[@the_swordman1]

and 1 year later and Nacon still have The sinking city and The Devil's daughter still on their website and probably other games they "tried" to "steal" or claim as their own. it's so sad.

[@samuelmeguerditchian6200]

I fucking loved this game. The atmosphere was incredible and the detective elements were super fun.

[@amandajas6287]

I keep waiting and hoping that Frogwares gets a court ruling in their favor and they get paid because I really would like to get this. But I do want to actually give the developers money and not just pay the publishers.

[@mattj2692]

I'm pretty sure the PS5/series s/x versions are published by frogware, that's why they are two separate listings right now.

[@robertcastanpn288]

It old news frog been won the case then the publisher stopped being assholes when frog reminded that the CEO can get jail time for trying to steal there game

[@robertcastanpn288]

Here a video it very good and informative

[@DitisEmile]

I think that it's a bit of both when it comes to Frogwares and publishers. It's true that a big 'problem' with Frogwares is that they are very individualistic ( perhaps even a bit bullheaded ) and do not like changing the vision of their product to fit broader audiences, but it is also widely known that indie studios get taken advantage of by publishers A LOT. Most indie studios just do not have a leg to stand on, neither publicly nor financially, so they opt not to speak out or simply get drowned out in other gaming news.

[@zoso1up]

The gamers don't win this no one does,in a civil world they could make a profitable split and we would get the game but we are not in a civil world

[@wymanrtaylor]

This game is a little janky but I love it. Great atmosphere and I really liked actually locating things on the map etc rather than just running to waypoints

[@seaica3447]

A better analogy would be that a record label asked an artist for there masters and stems, when the artist declines as it not part of the contact, the label then doesn’t pay them. Hopefully the gaming industry isn’t stopping to record label’s levels, they’re probably getting even worse to be honest.

[@zoso1up]

I cam see it happening man gaming turned into big money and we already see that with certain publishers developers it's not a good road to go down

[@alethearia]

This super makes me wonder if this is why games pushed out by the same publisher (like Greedfall) feel like they could have used 6 more months...

[@keatonlacretin9781]

I really love Lovecraft stories so i was extremely sad how this turned out, especially considering what was brought to the table

[@longjohn526]

Sounds about as crooked as the Music Business were you can have "Gold Record" sales and still end up owing the publisher money at the end of the day and have to rely on touring to pay the bills

[@thomasschwarz619]

God damn you got so lucky that your married someone named “the wife” Crazy.

[@davidd.6448]

While I feel bad for the developers, the combat in this game was just so tragically godawful that it rendered the game almost unplayable for me personally. Which is a shame because I liked the atmosphere and the look of the city but it was clear the devs had no idea how to implement open world mechanics into their game

[@davidd.6448]

@that guy in their case yes, since they'd only done linear detective games up until that point. Most open world games tend to have some sort of combat and I guess they felt pressured to include it even though they lacked the know-how

[@Centurian128]

Just so you know, Frogwares won.

[@Kidelta-z9f]

this channel deserves so much more praise

[@Joker_JAK]

I literally thought "I wonder if his wife shook the soda on purpose." right before you actually said it. Lol Interesting video though. Thanks for the content.

[@imdoneplus]

This is like $13 on Switch this weekend. Thank you for letting me know about this game!

[@zoso1up]

@luke Stephen's please continue with weird gaming stories really enjoy this kind of content from you

[@TheMovieslingers]

Really loved this game. The characters, story, detective elements and the atmosphere was perfect. Its a bit rough with its open world interactivity. But was enjoyable. Shame what happened to Frogwares

[@elitereptilian200]

Yeah only thing I actually disliked more and more as the game went along was the combat, everything else I really liked..

[@irritatingtruth9121]

“Say what you will about Epic” Ok! F**K EPIC! (Brining exclusives to PC) Bought the game on Switch. Haven’t had the time to play it though. I hear that version goes to Frog. But I’m not 100% on that

[@albertosusy1649]

To The contract: It absolutely does happen. Our company makes metal parts for another company, and their payment window is MONTH AND A HALF, from delivering The parts. They will not make The window shorter, and they usually pay within The last week

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

In Europe (results may very depending on the country) it's much easier to go to court than in America as a smaller company

[@Limes_Taste_Good]

I found about this game after finishing call of cthulhu, found out I couldn't buy it digitally but managed to find someone selling a used disc copy and loved it. Glad to see it for sale on series x store and ps5

[@MajorSangheili]

I really enjoyed The Sinking City. Had a lot of fun in it.

[@against1virus]

I am going to give the benefit of doubt to the developer instead of to the greedy evil publishers.

[@chuchof3tt669]

Being a fan of lovecraftian horror things I was awaiting this game since I first saw it, I started following it's progress and even got the other games they had to make sure to know what to expect, then sh!t hit the fan... starting with the issue of Epic Games back then with the exclusivity I waited for it to reach steam and while waiting all of this happened.

[@YovanyTthatsMe]

Why do you wear a headset? I’ve been following you for a while and I’m curious lol. Love the content luke videogames are life.

[@sergnechaev]

scandalous behavior

[@serrasedai]

Really enjoying this video! Feedback tip: Not wild about the camera close up at 24min. Too close. Back up face please. 👍 Otherwise great job! (I started fast forwarding and ended up skipping the final 5 mins bc the closeness was uncomfortable. Just FYI.)

[@Rickbearcat]

Maybe you can answer a question for me. When I hover my mouse pointer over the red timeline bar it shows a gray area above it that has ups and downs like a graph of sorts. I don't know what this is. Do you?

[@astari_1014]

Haven't even watched the video, but(and I hope I have the names right) I bought the fucking PS4 nacon version on sale and minutes later looked up the game only to see the controversy. Checked the ps store again and found a not on sale PS5 version by frogwares. Needles to say I wasn't happy. Never once downloaded the nacon version, bought the frogwares one and felt so much better lmao

[@FoxyFoxlyn]

Oh I got the ps5 version too. Does that mean it still goes to the devs?

[@MentokTheMindTaker]

If they signed the contract that specifically stated the publisher could reproduce the game then I don't really see how they could win this court decision

[@alethearia]

Question: why wouldn't we want small games studios to talk about it. I get not taking actions and doing legal stuff through the court... but one would think that if small dev teams started speaking out about it more frequently then publishers would get public pressure.

[@Cam-pe3nd]

I'm fascinated by the story of this more than I am the game itself, which was something I wanted to love but couldn't appreciate. Very dry and lots of pointless travel time with not much of interest between destinations.

[@bamban_garcia5562]

Frogwares could have cut the districts in half to give it a better focused world map design

[@marce_santa_ana]

We give massive corporations to much leeway, if a person did what Nacon did to another person and their intellectual property they would be in jail, but because it's a company a slap on the wrist will do.

[@mmfsnotsakuga3408]

1:13 holy shit, did Luke just read my mind?

[@Anjula321]

you are not live on twitch, I've been lied to

[@concrete-d5v]

Liked the video! Very interesting! But if you can do a critique of the mass effect trilogy would be amazing (long games I know, but you're my videos I listen to when I do side missions/grind lvls)

[@SliminBlue]

I'm not really interested in any of Frogwares' games, but MAN does this whole situation make me feel so bad for them. They're an indie studio, their passion is to make games, and not every indie team can self-publish, so publishers are always going to be around. The problem is that publishers like this are terrible and hurt everyone involved EXCEPT themselves. Then you have the Focus Home situation for Frogwares which is a whole ball of wax in its own right. There's also the tragedy that is Aeon Must Die, where the higher ups in the INDIE STUDIO were SO CORRUPT that they mistreated the employees badly enough that everyone quit, and Focus Home did nothing about it, with them releasing the game a year later without any of the devs being properly paid for their work. It's these kinds of situations that show why I hate publishers. There are a few good ones out there, apparently 505 Games is _alright,_ not great but games like Control and Terraria were published by 505 so they might not be awful. I don't know if Team 17 is a publisher, I think they might be but I'm not entirely sure, but if they are a publisher, then they're bad because they tried NFTs. At this point, the best way to go if you can't self-publish a game as a smaller/indie developer, just go to ID@Xbox and make a Game Pass deal, you'll get much more publicity than anywhere else, you'll get Game Pass confirmation which is a hefty chunk of change as it is, and you'll get funds for development, and you're going to an actual trustworthy (enough) company in Microsoft, so you know they probably won't back out. Now granted, I'm not a game dev and I doubt I'll ever have a game published, but all I know for sure is that this is probably a complete nightmare for an indie studio like Frogwares who kinda relies on publishers to make a living.

[@vaan4500]

Great video! Really interesting subject! On this same topic have you heard of what happened to the IP(Game) Prey from 2017 by Arkane, which btw the title with the same name that preceded it was not at all about whatever the publisher Bethesda turned it into and a proper sequel was scrapped. Now that I would love to see you talk about.

[@gandalf7345]

yeah I thought about prey 2 when I saw this video, thank god that happened tho cause prey 2017 is an immersive sim masterpiece

[@Aaron_M3093]

I don't know why, but I feel as though I have seen this entire video before...

[@FirstTuber123]

It’s a pretty heavy handed trailer on the mundane “same shit different day” type life.

[@hardpunkkore9235]

Just based on the title, I thought the subject of the video would be Dead Space 3

[@hardpunkkore9235]

@WhatsApp me ⁺¹²⁰⁹⁸⁰²²⁰⁴¹ Buzz off scam!!!

[@iamsuperskanick]

First your wife was eating a cookie while pouting about wanting to spend time with you, and now she gives you a shaken-up Sprite? Honestly living for these moments, Luke. 🤣💜

[@calsaver]

I bought this game not too long ago at Gamestop used and I tried playing it, didn't really like it. But when I tried to trade it back, they wouldn't let me because this issue with the publisher. That's how I learned about it 🤣

[@ahmedreda3626]

Nacon are one of the absolute scum in gaming industry now sadly having many ips and brilliant studios like spiders' greedfall or many other devs worked with them they just interfere with the development process for their personal gain not caring for the vision or even the work of the studio

[@KobeLoverTatum]

Okay but what does this have to do with Hollow Knight?

[@TheMcBeefy]

It was me Hector

[@NRTHKR]

Literally me in every conversation.

[@kingkhalid1111]

Hollow knight is most overhyped overrated game i have ever played its a MID game

[@THEGUARDSSSS]

@@kingkhalid1111 Overhyped: Cyberpunk 2077, Fallout 76, Evolve, Watch Dogs, Mass Effect Andrommeda, No Mans Sky, Anthem, Nuke Dukem Forever, The Order: 1886, Lawbreakers Overrated: COD, God of War, LA Noire, Dragon Age, Halo, Bioshock Infinite, Sims, GTA, Assassins Creed, Dead Island, Mortal Kombat, Final Fantasy, Gears of War, Fable, Minecraft You choose Hollow Knight for both. Wow.

[@AtomicOwl]

@@THEGUARDSSSS damn I cant really disagree with this

[@toyzombie5289]

Name of the game on the title would be nice

[@bamban_garcia5562]

The Sinking City

[@thegreatcthulhu8049]

Love this game. Far from perfect and lacks a ton of polish BUT you can tell they put a lot of love into it. Great atmosphere and plenty of appreciation for the source material I thought; you can really tell in the story and environment. I enjoyed it a lot.

[@wonkabars6982]

I agree with all of this. This might be one of the best Lovecraftian titles on the market next to Call of the Sea.

[@thegreatcthulhu8049]

@@wonkabars6982 word up, haven't played Call of the Sea myself. I'll check it out 🤙

[@noxmadness7342]

It was "wild" with xbox one version in my country. As the only one didn't have localization. And people were asking where it is, it will be in next update... update nowhere to be seen... then it became hot potato between publisher and Frogwares who shloud release it. Update in the end came out, but for some reason not everyone managed to download it, so it's advised to get it on another platform or that self published XSX version. XD I'm little sad new Sherlock don't have physical copy, but it's good they are able to self publish their work.

[@carston101]

The look of the main character here reminds me a lot of Ronan O'Connor from Murdered:Soul Suspect.

[@reddskair9523]

I actually bought and played this game. this is crazy.

[@dequariuswalker4739]

Cold Sprite be hittin but that McDonald's Sprite be BUSSIN!!

[@hayabusa09]

I know a studio that should have banned their own game. Rhymes with Cyberpunk, oops...I've never been good at that.

[@1danieltube794]

Cyberpunk is one of the very best games ever made!

[@hayabusa09]

@ just because I think it is trash doesn’t mean you have to, and visa versa

[@entysing6780]

Not gonna lie I seem to have enjoyed this more than most people. Sometimes I just want to play something a little different that pushes the envelope, even if it doesn't fully succeed. I played through it 3 times and then again when it came out for next gen. It's nowhere near a perfect game, but its definitely something a few steps off the beaten path

[@jackrundkvist1899]

Nacon is just a scam, me and my friend both bought nacon pro controllers for the PS4 and the triggers both of our controllers started bugging out like 2 months later

[@TheDarkChaplain]

I'm still waiting for the game to be back under dev control and available for purchase on Steam. Nacon has been scum for a long time, sadly.

[@thebigdawgj]

I just looked it up, it's on Steam.

[@TheDarkChaplain]

@@thebigdawgj The Steam version is published and controlled by Nacon, not Frogwares. It's also missing content, and its legitimacy is part of the suit. Frogwares is selling the legit version elsewhere, and Valve are keeping out of the dispute now.

[@TheREALHugo4]

I didn't heard enough about this game sadly.

[@GorillaScientist]

Luke I always click through the twitch link and you are always offline.

[@dannyruggles7020]

wow. I had no idea about this. God it makes the game make so much more sense now, it had such a good start of development, and the foundation is good, but its clear the game never quite finished development and at some point in development it lost direction and became the wishy washy experience that released. Thats fuckin terrible man, that game could have been great, and I'd be so angry if I was the original devs.

[@TheEldritchGoth]

I’m a huge Frogwares fan and I never even heard of this. This is hilarious and concerning

[@maineman5757]

Sad

[@FoxyFoxlyn]

Damn. I bought this game in the sale. Haven't started playing it yet.

[@gamingtonight1526]

So glad I never bought it! Publishers have all the power and developer are shafted ALL the time. And when a developer tries to protect its rights - it's the one accused! How dare Luke accuse the devs of being stupid! This industry is so corrupt that Frogware should ALWAYS protect their products. Even if people like you, unknowingly, assume they don't understand contracts they sign, or are litigious!

[@pyramidschemer4083]

Knew what this was going to be before I clicked...damn it Nacon

[@hairyrope1912]

Thanks for covering The Sinking City Luke. It's honestly a good game. A little rough, and trying at times, but a good game.

[@matthewmartinez9835]

This game is wonderful and so glad it’s getting a sequel it deserves it

[@Pedro-xz6wt]

typo on the title, man.

[@heretic124]

How does it compare to Call of Cthulhu? Played that one and it was okay. Is this better?

[@leonlacroix2638]

Yes, both games are good, but the sinking city has more to offer. For example the call of cthulhu is essentially just the shadow over insmouth, however the sinking city involves multiple diffrent stories, and has alot of lore and secrets.

[@Qcf2]

I thought you didnt like this way of presenting news or game controversies? not trying to be controversial here, just curious if you have changed your mind about this

[@thedankswordsmantm]

Oh this is why I can't play a game I wanted to play.

[@shoff29]

Yeah it’s Free Guy

[@elitereptilian200]

I really, really like this game, everything else is top notch but the combat.. sometime ago I bought this from a sale in the xbox store, I didn't know at the time about all of this shenanegary and I really hope the money went to the devs..

[@BoxingDawg]

I will sue you.

[@thecstineman]

Just me or does this guy look like a more dudebro version of the guy on the rooftop in hangover? (this is meant as a compliment!)

[@jamesmcferran7813]

Mad like n yeah I ain't played it yet I forgot it came out dam

[@epseudoo]

gamekult had made a very indepht two part french article about that and frogware has a tendency to try to screw up their publisher. If nacon are piece of sh frogware are not better.

[@Spellbound_93]

That moment when you learn that this studio is also based in Kyiv Ukraine. As if this studio didnt have it bad enough. A partner that dicked them about, the Covid pandemic , and to top it off, being invaded by a mad dictator.

[@Theottselmaster]

Wow NACON are utter ****s wont be buying any of their games.

[@roboaramis]

This is the B-Plot to Free Guy

[@xXJacobBuckXx]

Wasn't this the plot of Grandma's Boy?

[@coolguyb3311]

It was a good game...a lot better than i thought it was gonna be .

[@mrrokiisbored]

hey luke you really look like elvis the alien

[@LoudSmellingBoof]

Case slightly reminds me of tes franchise

[@jamesmcferran7813]

I crave a good story great characters I want this game now haha and location is a must like hyrule perfect or albion or even Los Santos horror is another level especially lovecraft

[@damienkrawczuk1435]

So who rightfully owned it and who didn't? I didn't mind the game the art direction and idea of it I thought was quite good, but I hate this I own this I own that arguments, mmm and now I feel like a sprite too

[@bamban_garcia5562]

Frogwares owns The Sinking City as it is their own creation no idea why they called Focus Home Interactive "licensees" not publishers though

[@damienkrawczuk1435]

@@bamban_garcia5562 yeah, go figure doesn't make a she lot of sense to me, this scenario reminds me why we never got a Legacy of Kain remake or sequel, they were all too busy arguing over who owns what, I would of loved a modern day Legacy of Kain game, so many older games would be great to see remade, but there all to busy fighting over who owns the bag, so to speak, shame hay?

[@bamban_garcia5562]

@@damienkrawczuk1435 Square Soft sold the Legacy Of Kain IP along with the studio to Embracer Group so you might get lucky

[@damienkrawczuk1435]

@@bamban_garcia5562 oh how I hope so, I listened to some dev's having a spiel on Embracer owning certain properties now about 2 weeks back and it sounded extremely positive that such a thing could be so, oh by The Elder God's I can only hope, because my life would be officially complete if such a thing happened, here's hoping for some more concrete info, I would absolutely loose my mind knowing such a thing

[@X862go]

Frogwares WON! LETS GOOOO!

[@alexives9274]

big horror fan and there wasn't that much horror in it for a Lovecraft game more LA nore

[@bamban_garcia5562]

Honestly it feels more like a suspenseful detective thriller

[@zoso1up]

"Allegedly" anyone else watch hey babe lol

[@jotindersingh8559]

I trust his judgment

[@springgamer8999]

Oh, yeah, I remember just telling my friend about playing the Game and then he just tells me "Hey, look at this" and sent me a screenshot about an article talking about this Game controversy, but if we're talking about the Game... It's a meh, story's fine, I think i hace watched this Game animations getting reused More times than the bullets I have shot, combat Is really stupid, enemy variety doesn't really exist, there's like 4 enemies if we dont count the humans, even tho they all act the same, but I can understand if people like It, It has its charm, i really don't know what it Is about this Game but I really wish that they has done More work on the Game, It really had so much potential, oh, and i'm still mad the trailer Made It look one way, but the game was another thing almost completely

[@VicoSun]

I dont believe Frogwares that much and this story needed full script but we dont know many things. In my eyes both Nacon and Frogwares broke contract. And why I don't believe this studio so much is that now the game is being selling on Steam and the publisher is Nacon. It's also means that Frogwares DONT HAVE RIGHTS to publish game on Steam - it's also means stidio dont have privilege to delete game from Steam.

[@tindekappa9047]

wrong its mate