The Super Weapon that Turned German U-Boats into Scrap

[@LordHolley]

Holy crap! 6 kills in 12 days..... That's pretty damn effective.

[@andrewtaylor940]

A nice piece. The Hedgehog really was revolutionary. In addition to solving the problem of the sonar blind spot when the destroyer passed over the sub to engage with depth charges, it also eliminated the extreme danger those depth charges posed to their own ship when dropping them. The destroyer had to be running at full speed, otherwise the same hydrostatic wave expected to kill an enemy sub could and often would shatter the destroyers rudder, steering gear and prop shafts. Leaving the ship crippled and easy prey. The Hedgehog let the destroyer put the much smaller explosions well forward of the ship, such that the bow could easily handle any minor shockwaves, instead of taking the force to the rear.

[@davidneel8327]

My dad served on, I believe a DE, as a carpenter mate. During a depth charge run an officer asked him why he was forward from his position. About that time the stern lifted out of the water from the depth charge going off. Answered.

[@amerigo88]

Incorrect. Considering the exact sane depth charges were used in the same ways by everything from 16 knot Flower class corvettes to 36 knot Fletcher class destroyers, they could not all have been running at the very same "full speed." A very serious problem with depth charges was that a sinking destroyer, DE, corvette, and so on would end up with most of the crew that had abandoned ship dying from concussion as the depth charges of the sinking ship exploded at their preset depth level. I have read of this in many cases. Also, I believe Admiral Jellicoe of WW1 Grand Fleet fame is credited with the development of the depth charge during that war. Before the RN deployed depth charges, the best hope for sinking U-boats was direct fire, ramming, and undersea mines.

[@nighttrain1236]

Johnnie Walker's 'creeping attack' already offered a tactical solution to the blindspot. The hedgehog offered a technological solution which in conjunction with other innovations in tactics and technology overwhelmed the U-boats culminating in the slaughter of black May.

[@marcusosmaston411]

@@amerigo88 You're quite right there, full speed was nothing like a requirement (and every corvette being one-use-only at 15kt is a bit ludicrous!), and usually ASDIC/sonar performance dropped off a lot with speed so if you barreled around at 35kt you'd not be detecting much anyway. There were some occasions where you could damage yourself, especially dropping a shallow pattern and in shallow water, but that would typically spring your stern glands and cause some shock damage, not shattering the whole propulsion set. I remember USCGC Icarus managed to prang herself fairly badly in shallow water off the US, but not too many other examples.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@nighttrain1236 Walker's Creeping attack was only possible when both radar and asdic were accurate enough, but you are right, in that it was an excellent tactical solution. The probability is that, only aware of an escort some distance astern, the U-Boat commander wouldn't have any warning at all of the second escort about to kill him.

[@jonbradbury3843]

My grand fathers ship, HMS Wellington, had hedgehog fitted. He told me the crew were all very impressed with it and never had any issues.

[@voiceofraisin3778]

The problem was that becasue Hedgehog was so badly needed and so innovative it was mass produced, stuck on a lot of warships but there werent enough trained officers who could go round the fleet giving training. Many ships basically got a new weapon and an instruction book. Good ships or technically minded crews learned fast, the less able ones didnt. Add to that rapid installation by dock workers who didnt have a clue what they were doing meant the launchers were misaligned with the ASDIC which added to the fact gunners unaware of the flight and sinking time and the launcheers not being maintained so the swing and aiming gear rusted solid on inept ships meant they launched off rounds, got no bang and assumed the weapon was defective so they lost morale and any urge to use it. Good crews on the sub-hunters tended to be used well, the random convoy escorts tended to be less effective.

[@wolfganger7012]

@@voiceofraisin3778 Thankyou ,the piece was a joy to read 👍

[@SvenTviking]

Moored in the Thames in central London. Grimsby class sloop.

[@gayjoebiden]

my grand father was the captain of HMS wellington and he told me your grandfather was lying

[@jacktattis]

@@gayjoebiden and my G/father was the cook and said it was very good.

[@voicetest6019]

I'm amused by the fleet clearly being annoyed at USS England getting all the kills, and then having to give in and let them get another.

[@daveybernard1056]

It's like the game hogs in War Thunder!

[@mikeloghry9521]

YES INDEED SALUTE

[@USS-SNAKE-ISLAND]

During WWII out of 5,174 British depth charge attacks there were 85.5 kills, a ratio of 60.5 to 1. In comparison, the Hedgehog made 268 attacks for 47 kills, a ratio of 5.7 to 1.

[@ddegn]

Thanks for this info.

[@MrElliott400]

Does that include Canadian numbers as well? thanks

[@allen480]

@@MrElliott400 eh?

[@meowmur302]

How was there a .5, they were brought out of commission?

[@Real_Steve_Sharpe]

@@meowmur302 A 0.5 kill is awarded when two attackers _(be they aircraft, tanks, ships, riflemen or whichever)_ attack the same target in the same engagement and it can't be determined which one struck the killing blow, so they share the credit between them.

[@thebookwasbetter3650]

My dad served on a destroyer in 1960 and showed me pics of it. He pointed out the hedgehogs on the front. I later made a lego destroyer about four feet long and made sure to add hedge hogs just behind the two sets of five inch turrets in the front. It was a pretty awesome creation.

[@touristguy87]

Aw so proud of you!

[@hermittao]

I'd love to see it, but I know the limitations of KZbin replys.

[@paulnutter1713]

one of my favourite quotes ever... "the hedgehog.... so called because it looked like the quills of a porcupine" gotta love those muricans!

[@martialmusic]

Yup! Muricans, we is! Hah to you fum Texas, podnuh! 😄🇺🇸

[@matthewexline6589]

The "quote" you're referring to at @0:41 is as follows: "Named for its rows of launcher spigots -which resembled the spines of the creature when devoid of a load- the Hedgehog would ...[]"

[@paulnutter1713]

@@matthewexline6589 the quote I'm referring to was by a US sailor in a different video......still funny

[@TeddyBear-ii4yc]

Aren't there any hedgehogs in the States? 😊

[@exposingthedarknesswiththe9190]

*ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES MADE THE DIFFERENCE AS DOES TODAY!!*

[@robertf3479]

An excellent presentation on a game changing weapon system. The principle behind the 'Hedgehog' ASW mortar is still in use today in more modern applications, primarily in Russian and PLAN destroyers and frigates because it works. Most Western navies prefer other weapons relying on homing torpedoes. USS England (DE 653) and most other destroyer escorts were fitted with a single Hedgehog launcher while many Fletcher, Sumner and Gearing class destroyers mounted two. In both DEs and DDs this was in addition to their depth charge racks and "K gun" depth charge mortars. At one point after USS England became a seagoing "Ace" (5 kills makes a fighter pilot an Ace) Fleet Admiral King remarked "There will always be an 'England' in the United States Navy. The next England started life as a Leahy class Guided Missile Destroyer Leader / Frigate (DLG 22) but was later reclassified as a Guided Missile Cruiser (CG.) I think it's past time for the USN to build and commission another England.

[@alexlo7708]

You are misunderstood. Russian use RBU 6000 as there decoy or jamming to torpedo. Not to attack submarine.

[@odileelido8407]

Pretty sure Admiral King was referring to the popular wartime song "There'll Always Be an England": kzbin.info/www/bejne/laLLfYONmNJgZtk

[@jjhry177]

since we are so good allies it would be nice lol but without 1 there will be no other

[@scooter2099]

Ernest King was a notorious Anglophobe. He basically hated Poms - but then as his daughter said - he was an even tempered man ... he was cranky at everyone....

[@jacktattis]

All to a British Invention.

[@Twirlyhead]

Great weapon, Britain. Well done.

[@JoeDiGiovanniIV]

My grandfather was a gunnery captain aboard USS England in WW2. so imagine my smile when hearing about his ship!

[@hotgluegun]

My grandfather was a Tin Can Sailor (the nickname for sailors serving on Destroyer Escorts) and he operated one of these! I could never find a good video on them until now. Thank you!!!

[@tubularfrog]

My Dad was also a Tin Can sailor (as was my older brother later) and spoke approvingly of the hedgehog weapon system. He also said that it was their duty to run in front of incoming torpedoes to save the larger Carriers and cruisers, if it could be done.

[@John_epp]

Do you know what ship he served aboard?

[@fatboyrowing]

@@John_epp I’m jumping into the discussion. My dad, still alive in Feb 2022, served upon DE 766, the USS Slater. They had 8 K guns, 2 gravity racks and I believe a forward hedgehog for ASW. But you can check her out for yourself today, she is a museum ship on the Hudson River in Albany NY. My dad helped with her restoration into his 80s. He was a radioman. The twin 40’s are the gem on this ship as far as I’m concerned. They operate like fine Swiss watches. The whole ship is worth a look - the restoration and curation is excellent.

[@hotgluegun]

@@John_epp USS Chester T O'Brien

[@patrickshaw8595]

@@fatboyrowing Excellent. Thanks for sharing !

[@mikemullen5563]

My Dad was XO GEORGE at the time. She sank one of the six subs sunk, apparently because ENGLAND had run out of ammo. This was a coordinated group hunt, BTW, and credit should go to all three ships. (the other was RABY). Also, as an aside, the Special Weapons Development group was informally referred to as "the Wheezers and Dodgers".

[@mikeloghry9521]

SALUTE !!! To Your Dad and all the crews that served.

[@abrahamdozer6273]

Whenever an hydrostatic depth charge went off the water was disrupted so badly for several minutes that they frequently lost their ASDIC/SONAR contacts in the broiling, bubbling mess. Subs could make their escape using a dramatic course change in the confusion that was undetectable. A big advantage of Hedgehog and it's contact fuse is that a "miss" did not result in an explosion and therefore continuous contact was maintained throughout. If there was an explosion ... you got 'em and it doesn't matter.

[@chloehennessey6813]

Whenever a hydrostatic. An doesn’t fit here. If you used a noun- say-explosive? Than it would fit. “Whenever an explosive depth charge went off”.

[@chrisrace744]

Thank you for explaining the advantages. This 10 min video I watched didn't help me understand how this new tech was an advantage.

[@abrahamdozer6273]

@@chloehennessey6813 They are all explosives. An "hydrostatic depth charge" is a sub-set of "explosives" and is therefore more specific. You Need to re-read the original sentence. (Is English your first language?)

[@g8ymw]

@@chloehennessey6813 Hydrostatic depth charges are (manually, on deck) set to go off at a certain depth whether it hits anything or not. The idea is the shock wave will damage the sub. Hedgehogs are a contact weapon, you only get a (smaller) bang if you hit something Another thing is the ship's sonar looks ahead of the ship, depth charges go off the back so a sub can make a sharp turn in the ship's blind (deaf?) spot. Hedgehogs fire ahead of the ship so aiming at the sonar contact

[@SebastianSchleussner]

@@chloehennessey6813 In a dialect that swallows the H in "hydro" and "herb" just as everyone does in "hour", "an" fits without problem.

[@BruceMusto]

Got to tell ya, as a career sonar tech and frigate (formerly classed as DE's) sailor, I give this video a thumbs up.

[@johnstreet797]

thanks for your service Bruce

[@brucewilliams1892]

You forgot the shaped charge aspect, with a small munition sized to make a hole through both outer hull and pressure hull, with a space of about 3ft between them. You also omit Capt Johnny Walker's creeping attack, where one ship observes the sub on her sonar and directs another ship by radio into position for a hedgehog attack. The attacking ship can stay slow and covert.

[@Bestnightcoreofalltime]

My grandfather served on an uboat later in the war. Im so glad that I never had to go to such fearing bombardments. It is literally my deepest fear to be helpless under the seas surface...destroyed by hedgehogs or deep charges or even worse...buried alive in a sunk uboat on the oceans ground.

[@Bestnightcoreofalltime]

@@bobgreene2892 Yes…but if I’m allowed to be pessimistic the next year will test my luck 😕

[@Bestnightcoreofalltime]

@@bobgreene2892 Yes…but if I’m allowed to be pessimistic the next year will test my luck 😕

[@simplywonderful449]

My dad was a submariner during WWII as well, and talked very little about it as it instilled in him fears that his son would have to go to war someday as well. We'd go through the U-boat at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, and he'd note things in the German sub, comparing it to the U.S. subs. Even berths would make him state, "Man, we had it a lot better than they did" about U-boat crews, but he always had respect for his fellow submariners, even the enemy. It takes a certain type of person who is able to keep a straight head when others would be losing theirs to serve on a submarine.

[@albertsuseintsus7355]

@@simplywonderful449 how old are you sir?

[@jjhry177]

hope he survived until well after the war bud

[@lightfootpathfinder8218]

Wanted to hear how this British weapon was deployed and used by the Royal navy to help turn the tide against the U-boats in the Atlantic ...instead got a brief overview of its invention then a story about a US navy destroyer in the Pacific ... I get the Sence this channel is tailored for American viewers

[@xxnightdriverxx9576]

yeah, its quite annoying.....

[@samrussell9264]

There are actually TWO weapons from the British Royal Navy Bureau Of Miscillanious Weapons Development in this video: They also introduced the Oerlikon 20mm AA gun to the US Navy: at a demonstration a USN Admiral quite literally " wrote his name" with it, and a Contract- and History- was made.

[@bobgreene2892]

Sam Russell said, "... The British Royal Navy Bureau of Miscellaneous Weapons... also introduced the Oerlikon 20mm AA gun to the US Navy... " ------------------------------------------------------- The Oerlikon AA cannon was a Swedish weapon, sold to everybody, including the Royal Navy.

[@davedixon2068]

@@bobgreene2892 Suspect it was somewhat more complex than Sweden sold them to everyone, Sweden was neutral, so not supposed to sell weapons to either side I think the British bought a licence to produce and modify the Oerlikon before the war started so probably the Americans bought that right to manufacture the British version from the British,. both sides used them though so the Germans got them too.

[@DragerPilot]

My uncle was a torpedo-man abroad destroyer DD-521, the USS Kimberly, during WWWII. He didn’t talk a lot about the numerous engagements in which the ship had a role. However the battle of Leyte Gulf and the battle for Okinawa with Kamikaze aircraft were the most terrifying to him. Two of his best friends were killed among the dozens of casualties of these battles. Because of the ships battle record, The Kimberly was one of the ships chosen to escort the USS Alabama into Tokyo Bay for the Japanese surrender ceremony. Ironically and numerous,y, Uncle Joe served in the US Navy for more than 4 years, and couldn’t swim 6 feet. He was second father and mentor to me, and I admired him greatly.

[@lufe8773]

Thanks for the story and good you are proud of him

[@nofilter2091]

Very interesting video, I never knew the Hedgehog existed. My father sailed on several Merchant Marine vessels and while on a mission was attacked by a German Wolfpack U-boat. He was smoking a cigarette on deck when a torpedo appeared out of nowhere. He thought he was a dead man as the torpedo hit the side of the ship, but it didn't detonate and broke apart upon impact. I can't imagine the terror of that.

[@captainotto]

A whole crew was thanking their lucky stars that night.

[@martinnermut2582]

Smoking on board at night was prohibited, because especially the lighter flame was seen miles away

[@nigeldeacon3271]

My late father in law was co of HMS Violet. She sank u 641 with her hedgehog. I have his DSC.

[@grahambaker6664]

The breaking of the Japanese naval code was a joint US and Australian effort. A lot of the intelligence used by USS England came from Australian codebreakers in Townsville Queensland not from the USN

[@tclanjtopsom4846]

Exactly, they are good at forgetting collaboration partners.

[@grahambaker6664]

@Gert Bonk They did as a result of the division of the areas of responsibility between the codebreaking units in the Pacific. The USN codebreaking units were responsible for the Northern and Central Pacific. British codebreaking units, based in Colombo, were responsible for Burma and the Indian Ocean. The Australian codebreaking units, based in Townsville and Darwin, were responsible for South-West Pacific including the Solomon and Admiralty Island chains, New Guinea, and the Dutch East Indies. The Australian codebreaking units were integrated into the FRUPAC command structure which resulted in their work being reported as USN successes. USS England's anti-submarine operations were conducted within the Solomon and Admiralty Island chains and the responsibility for codebreaking would have been with the Australian codebreaking units.

[@grahambaker6664]

@Gert Bonk I am not aware of any links but these are a summary of the hardcopy references: "The Eavesdroppers" by Jack Bleakley published by the Australian Government Publishing Service in 1992 ISBN 0 644 22303 0 Documents held by the Australian National Archives and the Australian War Memorial relating to No. 1 Wireless Unit RAAF, No. 4 Wireless Unit RAAF, No. 5 Wireless Unit RAAF, and No. 6 Wireless Unit RAAF Personal papers of General C.A. Willoughby US Army Intelligence who was G2 Intelligence South West Pacific Area.

[@grahambaker6664]

@Gert Bonk So all the knowledge accumulated prior to the internet didn't exist because it was written in books? Even historical records published by governments?

[@grahambaker6664]

@Gert Bonk The biggest impact the Aussies had on the Pacific war was when Mark Oliphant, an Australian Physics Professor at Birmingham University, designed Little Boy in 1940 as part of the British Tube Alloys atomic bomb project. The design was finalized over a year before the Manhattan Project was authorised.

[@sid2112]

"Aw Hell. Go ahead, England." Hehehe

[@tennesseehomesteader6175]

Apparently the skipper of the England replied by saying "I got some hedgehog right here."

[@matthewspry4217]

@@tennesseehomesteader6175 no way

[@thedigitalrealm7155]

I'm imagining him saying it in the tone of an exasperated teacher finally letting the class know-it-all answer a question

[@lufykaheda9980]

One of many recorded kill steal at ww2

[@lancerevell5979]

USS England's envious record makes me proud to have been a DE/FF tincan sailor myself. The escorts did the tough grueling jobs other bigger ships didn't want to bother with. We were the "pickup ships", getting all kinds of wierd tasks assigned.

[@victorwaddell6530]

I was serving on a US Navy DDG in the middle 1980s My ship was moored to a pier in Charleston Naval Station when a Canadian frigate moored at the same pier . A Canadian sailor gave me a tour of his ship and I got to see their hedgehog .

[@ddegn]

Cool! I love reading these sorts of stories in the comments. Thanks for sharing it and thanks for your service. I tried joining the marines in 1982. I didn't pass the physical. Bad heart.

[@victorwaddell6530]

@@ddegn I volunteered to be a navy diver in basic training . My nasal passages were screwed up , so I couldn't go diver , submarine , or air crew .

[@s.porter8646]

What's a Canadian hedgehog look like you pevert 😜🤪

[@victorwaddell6530]

@@s.porter8646 Want pics ?

[@s.porter8646]

@@victorwaddell6530 I served on 5 subs...we can compare

[@huebdoo]

My Dad's HMCS Saskatoon got a U-boat near the end of the war, the U-boat at the time was filled with fanatical Hitler youth who, one climbing on board the Canadian ship would pull a grenade. My dad would stand on deck with rifle with bayonet. A young man climbed on deck shivering with a lump under his vest. That lump was a Voitlander Camera that I have on my dresser. He was only 18 in 41. His friends went off to Hong Kong and never returned. His joining the RCN saved his life.

[@elenaestrella1248]

I am ex-R.A.N, and I can remember that back in1967,when I was serving on HMAS Stuart, that we were tasked to sail to deep water,off the NSW coast, and dump many,many boxes containing the last stocks of Aussie owned Hedgehogs. Nothing happeneind, I am just remembering a little story about this subject.

[@TonyGoacher]

My dad served in Royal Navy in the 50s and told me about these. Nice to get some information about them. Thanks!

[@oceanmariner]

I served on WWII built destroyers in the 1960s. Most Hedgehogs were removed by 1970. Nuclear powered subs and homing torpedoes made getting close to subs dangerous for destroyers. ASROC was the main destroyer anti sub weapon by then.

[@shize9ine]

Now I want to see a Dark Seas ASROC video!

[@s.porter8646]

And SUBROC

[@boholde2757]

Former Sonarman here. We used acoustical homing torpedos and rocket thrown acoustical homing torpedoes (ASROC….anti submarine rocket) in the early 70s. Two of the weapons in the ASROC launcher were nuclear. Obviously, we never shot a nuke, but the saying was…If one went off in the same ocean as the target, you sank the sub.

[@philsalvatore3902]

@@boholde2757 ASROC and torpedos remain the primary ASW weapons on surface ships. ASROC now is called VLA for Vertical Launch ASROC. The old eight cell "pepper box" is long gone. They are loaded into the Mk-41 VLS. The Hedgehog however carried on in spirit at least with the Russian RBU series ASW mortars. Btw, I was an SH-3 pilot and dropping a nuclear depth charge was basically a suicide mission. Our NATOPS actually had a statement in there about opening the doors and windows to let the blast blow through! Sure thing.

[@alexandrite3208]

~1969 I served aboard the U.S.S. Nicholas - DD-449 out of Pearl. She was the oldest DD in the Navy at that time. After her final WestPac tour we were tied pier side to undergo her decommissioning, I was an FTG in gunnery division. We had Hedgehog racks forward and above the main deck splash guard. Below the bridge, and below the Gunfire Control Director. The Hedgehog racks were loaded with dummy sand filled charges painted blue. While doing PM up in the Director, all hatches open for air flow, I heard the distinct BRRrrrraap of the hedgehogs firing, I glanced up through the director top hatch to see a salvo of blue hogs in flight up and away. Towards the pier. Stuck my head out of the open hatch to see the hogs pummel the pier, and the geedunk restaurant stand on the pier. No injuries, the geedunk stand sheetmetal patio roofing took a direct hit by at least two sand filled hogs and collapsed. The next issue of the "All Hands" magazine had a lead article about how the Nicholas had sunk a geedunk stand. I carried the magazine around for the remaining three years of my enlistment. Always good for a smile. Oh, no campaign ribbon was issued for the battle of the pier.

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

Great history, thanks for that little gem.

[@warrendubeau851]

My dad once told us a story about the last convoy his corvette escorted before the end of the war. They had damaged a U-Boat with their hedge-hog mortar, and had been following the oil trail for a couple of hours. Then a British destroyer showed up and ordered them to get lost and let "the professionals" handle it. So guess what happened. "The professionals" managed to lose the U-Boat. The next day when they were in port, the crew read about a surfaced U-Boat trailing oil being sunk by a patrol plane right where they had been ordered away. Dad said the captain was furious over the incident. And though it was 50 years earlier, I could still feel the bitterness in dad's voice while he told the story. He said the hedge-hog was a huge improvement over depth charges. Main advantage was that it was facing forward. Could also be used against surfaced U-Boats.

[@lightfootpathfinder8218]

What nationality was your dad ?

[@warrendubeau851]

@@lightfootpathfinder8218 Canadian.

[@lightfootpathfinder8218]

@@warrendubeau851 oh right that makes Sence ...I thought you were American ... Thank you for your father's service in ww2 My grandfather fought in North Africa, Italy and the Netherlands 🇬🇧🤝🇨🇦

[@xxnightdriverxx9576]

to be fair, the Royal Navy in general had the most experience in dealing with Uboats, much more than the Canadian or US Navy. So I guess that was where that arrogance from the RN captain came from. Of course averages are just that, averages, an experienced Canadian crew of course performed much better than a green british crew, but on average the RN had the most experience. Also, Uboats that got trailed were lost all the time again, so it may be possible that the boat your father was on would have lost it as well. We just dont know. On another note, I always find it funny how the US basically refused any advise from the Royal Navy in how to deal with Uboats after their entry into the war, leading to another golden hour for the german uboats directly off the coast of the US. A big part in that was that no blackouts of coastal cities were done, as a result the merchant ships were visible against background light at night, making much easier targets. A lot of ships were lost because the USN was too arrogant to use the strategies the Royal Navy suggested to them.

[@barrettcarr1413]

@@xxnightdriverxx9576 I disagree, it wasn't the USN, the problem was Admiral KING who hated the British and refused any help, such as training in anti-Submarine warfare, the offer of RN ships especially developed for attacking subs. Admiral KING should have been sacked. Because of his attitude far too many Merchant seamen and ships were lost, especially the oil tankers on the East Coast of America, (second happy days) and the Merchant men who did survive the sinking of the oil tankers where horribly burnt. If you can ever look at photos of the badly burnt survivors you will understand mu comment the KING was an ar**hole and should have been dismissed

[@samrussell9264]

Quite apart from its effectiveness, the Hedgehog had a Psychological and Logistical advantage: with Contact fuses if one exploded, that was a Hit, a submarine had been damaged and probably destroyed, rather than hours of sweeps and Depth Charges following a salvo.

[@tomtrenter3208]

Contrary to your statement. recoil from hedgehogs being fired was a major source of structural problems and helped lead to newer/ better devices. They would blow out light bulbs and cause other electrical issues when they were fired. Ripple firing hedgehogs only reduced the amount of damage. Look up "mouse trap" ASW projectors used by smaller ASW vessels due to the huge reduction in recoil. Mouse trap had some issues with the back blast but this was manageable.

[@tomtrenter3208]

Your so called "blind spot" was when the submerged sub got close enough to the ASW ships that it was below the acoustic energy beam that was projected and received at the sonar dome. The farther away sonar lost contact the deeper the sub was submerged. This allowed the sonar gang to calculate the subs depth and call out settings to the depth charge crews. Sometimes also the ASW ship would use it's fathometer as it went overhead the sub to find the how deep it was submerged and call out depth charge settings. The amount of time the sub was in your so called "blind spot" was usually not enough to allow it to escape. When the subs sonar couldn't hear the ASW ship pinging any more is when they would try to avoid attacks close enough for a kill and if they got lucking make an escape. Keep in mind that usually ASW ships operated in mutually supporting groups and this made escape difficult for subs in WW2.

[@ФедерацияСоветскойРоссии]

I’ve enjoyed many of you’re documented videos as when I was a kid watching National Geographic and History channel. Now 40 years old, thank for keeping the history alive 😎

[@pileobones7035]

My Dad was a Hedge Hog operator on the HMCS Stettler in the North Atlantic Theatre. He told me of one time he fired them off but one misfired and sat there. He contacted the bridge, they gave him the go ahead to try to fire it again, another misfire. They told him to try again and it misfired a 3rd time. They then told him to take it off the launcher and throw it overboard. He hated that as he wasn't sure if it armed itself. They have little propellers on the front and once turned a few times it armed so it was a little stressful when they misfired. Didn't happen often tho.

[@mikeloghry9521]

I've often wondered how Effective the Hedge Hog were. Knowing is half the battle. A real interesting bit of Research. Thank You.

[@USS-SNAKE-ISLAND]

During WWII out of 5,174 British depth charge attacks there were 85.5 kills, a ratio of 60.5 to 1. In comparison, the Hedgehog made 268 attacks for 47 kills, a ratio of 5.7 to 1.

[@knightowl3577]

Whether you were a crewman on a merchant ship, lying on your bunk at night imagining torpedoes slamming into the hull at any moment or a sailor in a U-Boat sweating as the sound of depth charges exploding got closer. It was hard on the nerves and turned young men into old ones quickly.

[@joefish6091]

Twas on the good ship Venus...

[@gangleweed]

@@joefish6091 ......my god you should have seen us....

[@boholde2757]

I would never want to be on a submarine under attack.

[@edmundkockenlocker4672]

This really brings home how dangerous and scary it must be to serve on board a submarine. Apart from being cut off from the outside world, knowing that you're hundreds of feet below the surface but not knowing where you are, you've also got to deal with the fact that someone up there is trying to kill you and you could die at any minute.

[@bravo2966]

I'm sure the crews of the convoys who the submarines were blowing out of the water were very sad for the submariners.

[@Real_Steve_Sharpe]

@@bravo2966 Which part of his comment are you responding to big guy? Be specific please, quote the exact words or sentences. I read through it and couldn't see a single thing that relates to whatever it is you're spouting off about, just a very true statement about how dangerous and scary being a submariner must be, no mention of for who or in what time period - but then again I'm dumb as a box ox frogs, nowhere near as smart as you are xcx

[@philsalvatore3902]

And yet US submariners at least will tell you there are two kinds of ships, submarines and targets. I had a conversation with a US Navy F/A-18 pilot some years ago about the efficacy of certain air launched weapons against modern warships. After discussing their relative merits he added a sentence that still makes me pause in wonder. He said, referring the the PLAN " assuming there is anything left for us to shoot at after our subs get done with them" Hearing this from a jet jock was, well, shocking.

[@edl617]

Invented by a caravan builder in England as a single ambush mortar. It Was then set up as a area denied weapon on a battlefield. Usual if multiple launchers. A fine British weapon. Fashion by Churchills gentlemen of unconventional warfare

[@chrisbrace2204]

there's a story that the Original Blacker Bombard was demonstrated to a Group of generals and Churchill, amongst them was De Gaulle, and during the demonstration there was a misfire that nearly hit him, which he thought was deliberate, and why he consistently was anti British after that.

[@finscreenname]

The England is such a great story I'm surprised that Brian Williams was not there.

[@johnbradshaw7525]

My Grandfather's ship, HMS Westcott (D47), a V&W class destroyer, was the first RN ship to be fitted with the Hedgehog in August 1941. She was a test platform for the trials of the Hedgehog

[@michaelb9529]

One of the main advantages of Hedgehog was the attacking vessel could maintain ASDIC contact with the target. With only depth charges they would loose contack when running over the target and dropping the charges. This forced them to quickly having to turn and try and regain contact

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

You should read accounts of Captain Walker's 'Creeping Attack' method. Two or more escorts, using asdic and radar.

[@michaelb9529]

@@dovetonsturdee7033 Oh I know that was one of the reasons why the RCN and RN to lesser degree formed hunter killer groups of destroyers to they could overwhelm the uboat often they would wait for them to form a wolfpack and then strike. They also attacked German destroyer squadron doing night patrols

[@jacktattis]

@@dovetonsturdee7033 Yes and the USN copied it I believe

[@MADmosche]

The faster transition between video chapters is appreciated.

[@ZoobieDoodie]

Terrifying but super cool at the same time!

[@nautifella]

What a disgusting weapon. Submariners are some of the nicest people. STS2 (SS) 1981-1987

[@alastair9446]

I think another advantage of the Hedgehog over depth charges was that sub could not hear them go into the water easily. Big barrels used for depth charges could be heard, but the smaller mortar was more diificult to hear. If ship went over a sub it was good idea for the sub to change direction. But since a ship did not need to go over a sub with the Hedgehog the sub didn't really know when the mortars were fired.

[@joefish6091]

The big 55 gallon sized depth charges were just rolled off the back of a destroyer from a ramp.

[@cmillerg6306]

We're the deployed hedgehogs really that far away, so that a noisy ship couldn't be detected?

[@cmillerg6306]

​@joefish6091 there is footage of them also being launched

[@alastair9446]

@@cmillerg6306 Ships could be heard as far as 10km underwater. The hedgehog distance is 230m. It's not about not detecting the ship, it's about timing. Subs could avoid depths charge by being able to tell when they were dropped and hide in the aftermath of the explosion. You can't really tell when a ship fired hedgehogs and hedgehogs did not explode unless contact with the sub, so you can't hide in the aftermath of the explosion. Hedgehogs were also new weapons so the Germans probably didn't even know about them most of the war and how to counter it if even possible. Play Silent hunter 2 to understand the problem.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Your chronology on the development of British spigot weapons is a little off. Blacker had been developing his spigot based weapons since the 30s. The 29mm Spigot Mortar was adopted as subcalibre artillery, an anti-tanks weapon with an additional anti-infantry role. The PIAT developed from work done by ICI which took elements from Blacker's ideas and those of Major Jefferis (section head of MD1). ICI did a lot of work to get the PIAT to a place where it was viable for production and issue. The hedgehog, alongside the Petard and a number of other weapons were influenced by the Bombard. The Hedgehog was a fixed spigot weapon like the Bombard rather than a dynamic spigot weapon like the PIAT. Hedgehod was developed by the Royal Navy's Department of Miscellaneous Weapons Development various sources disagree over whom led development and if Blacker assisted. If anyone wants to know more about the Hedgehog beyond wiki etc check out David Lister's work on spigot weapons, Stuart Macrae's Churchill's Toyshop and Blacker's own book.

[@justindunlap1235]

I have always wanted to mount a hedgehog on a universal carrier. It would be perfect for initiating an ambush. Just drop 24 mortars in and around an enemy patrol before opening fire with small arms.

[@nerfinator03]

And not a single one would hit the now angry enemy.

[@magnetmannenbannanen]

i allways wanted to mount a hedgehog to deal with roadragers and brakecheckers in front of me in traffic.

[@mikeloghry9521]

@@magnetmannenbannanen So it's ok that two wrongs make it right. Not hardly!

[@CZ350tuner]

Trials were performed with Hedgehog mounted on the engine deck of a British A12 Matilda II infantry tank. Airfix makes a 1:76 scale model kit of this Hedgehog equipped tank.

[@politenessman3901]

@@CZ350tuner Officially known as the 'Matilda Projector, Hedgehog, No. 1 Mark I, this fitted a Hedgehog 7-chambered spigot mortar in an armoured box on the rear hull of several Australian Matilda tanks. The projector was elevated by hydraulics adapted from the Logan traversing mechanism used in M3 Medium tank turrets and electrically fired either individually or in a salvo of six, from the 12 o'clock position;] the fifth tube could not be fired until the turret was traversed to 1 o'clock, to move the radio antenna out of the bomb's flightpath. Each bomb weighed 65 lb (29 kg) and contained 30 to 35 lb (14 to 16 kg) of high explosive. The range was up to 400 m (440 yd). Aiming was accomplished by pointing the entire tank; the mounting had no independent traverse, so accuracy was not spectacular, but adequate for the task.[40] Trials at Southport, Queensland, in May 1945 were pronounced complete success, and the Projector would have been impressive against enemy bunkers, but the war ended before it was used operationally.

[@exidy-yt]

Wow, I knew absolutely nothing about this weapon, and foolishly assumed all WW2 encounters with subs were decided by depth charge,deck gun or torpedo. Fascinating, thank you for featuring the hedgehog!

[@gregmullins6927]

Your Documentaries are great!! your commentary voice is excellent.

[@onerimeuse]

I've seen these for so so long on ships in videos and movies, but never knew what to look for. Thank you for randomly feeding me an answer I've been looking for for a long time.

[@derekl.9202]

The USS Stewart in Galveston's Seawolf Park has the hedgehogs. I remember taking pics of them as they seemed so unique and remarkable. I never knew anything about them until then. Great to see this video add to that bit of knowledge!

[@bryannonya9769]

The hedgehog is a cute little thing with lots of character, they make great pets

[@dellawrence4323]

The Hedgehog, Made in England, just like radar, asdic/sonar, the steam catapult, and many other inventions that probably won the war.

[@tent7014]

10 cm Magnatron, Bren Gun (Czech), Spitfire, Convoy system, VT fuse, Bletchley Park,............................................................on and on and on mate !

[@seanmcmullen4274]

dont forget, in my opinion, the most important invention...the proximity fuse.

[@BillFromTheHill100]

Steam Catapult?

[@TheTrueNorth11]

@@BillFromTheHill100 For launching planes, used on aircraft carriers.

[@terrysmith9362]

which was reverse lend lease but never recognised by Anglophobic historians

[@towgod7985]

England...........Bloody Well Done!

[@mcmneverreadsreplys7318]

A mention or quick comparison with the American Mousetrap (a rocket propelled knock-off of the Hedgehog) might have been nice. I understand the U.S. used both of these forward shooting anti-sub systems.

[@mcmneverreadsreplys7318]

Both show up in war film. You can easily spot the Mousetrap by the fire coming out of it's tail, whereas the Hedgehog only has smoke. The Mousetrap also put less stress on the ship's deck.

[@Darren51283]

Little known secret: set playback speed at 75% to keep from getting a headache due to crazy fast talking.

[@CZ350tuner]

Could you possibly do a video on the British Royal Navy's Tucker Hotwire over the horizon acoustic rangefinder, that entered service in 1909? I once read about how it functioned and how it gave an edge over German warships in WW1. It was accurate to within 100 yards, despite the target being sometimes over the horizon and out of sight. Any chance of a video?

[@ammtracer]

I love all of their channels! Great content and easy to watch.

[@flyboy38a]

I greatly enjoy these tidbits of history that I have not heard of before. One thing I would like to know about the hedgehog is what happened to the rounds that did not hit a hard target and explode? Is the sea floor littered with unexploded hedgehog rounds just waiting to go off? I know that there are modern versions of this weapon in use today but they have delayed detonation safeties installed on them in case they don’t hit a target. I think some of the Scandinavian countries are using some version of the weapon on their coastal patrol boats, but I don’t know who else is using them. Does anyone know when the last time the hedgehog was used in combat was and against what enemy?

[@larryclemens1850]

@Ben Jones Hauling one in a fishing net would make for an interesting day.

[@davidneel8327]

@Ben Jones However at depth there is little oxygen in the water.

[@paulcallicoat7597]

@@davidneel8327 Look at the pictures of the Titanic when first discovered and the most recent pictures. The microbes are eating it and its down a few miles.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@Ben Jones Squid, a A/S weapon using a pair of three barrelled mortars fired automatically by the asdic of an escort, was already being introduced from late 1943. Squid mortars may still be seen aboard the preserved destroyers HMCS Haida and HMS Cavalier, I believe.

[@Will-dn9dq]

There's nukes left under hundreds feet of sand an silt id say Norma ordnance was a non issue. Think they're steel an rust explosives are easily diluted and degraded by salt water. It's all just sand by now

[@whitneyeaton5585]

Well done quick to the point documentaries.

[@-xirx-]

I've always been fascinated by these weapons since seeing them in films!

[@mikegray-ehnert3238]

Had read about hedgehogs for years. Thanks for clarifying how they worked.

[@mikeloghry9521]

Can't one imagine the Horror? Of being in a armed metal tube. Knowing the Hedge Hog and Depth Charges were falling in on you. No where to run. No where to hide. Man O Man.

[@crankychris2]

Once your batteries were depleted, your only options were to blow your ballast tanks, surface and surrender...or die.

[@JTA1961]

Under PRESSURE

[@marleyboy7732]

Wished there were interviews with some of these men. Hearing what these old dogs had experienced is awesome. They can tell you some crazy stories from out there.

[@mouseno4]

I find it rather amusing that the ship captains refused to use a ASW technology simply because it was a novel way, a different way to what they were used to. Dropping bombs, firing guns or ramming they knew. Firing off small bomblettes in a pattern likely garnered laughter from said captains. Yet, when it was actually ordered by their commanders to use them, successes with them dramatically increased. Sounds like people from today actually.

[@davidpage4005]

Also sounds just like the American Admiral Ernie King's attitude to taking advice from the R.N. about Atlantic convoy escort and tactics when America first got involved in the spring of 1942.

[@MrJest2]

Technology and tactics change. People don't.

[@martialmusic]

You do great work. Your voice tone cracks me up. You do "malice" and danger really well. It adds a lot. thanks!

[@michaelj132]

Nice video. You should make a video on Captain Johnny Walker. An incredible man and the most successful sub hunter.

[@davidpage4005]

Along with Capt Donald McIntyre.!!

[@darreng745]

A way of dealing with Instantaneous Echo which any fan of the Cruel Sea would know meant the that escort was on top of or within mimimun range of the U-Boat, it also dealt with emulsification where the shock wave of the depth charge creates air bubbles in the water and allowed an approach which did not put the escort in danger of damage from her own depth charge explosions. The contact only method of detonation meant that the Hedgehog either exploded or sank harmlessly until crush depth or the bottom of the sea bed whichever was closer and it was easier to reload, plus because of the forward arc it meant that the U Boat captains would have not started their evasive turns from the approaching escort as they turned late when within minimum range or the first salvo so the Asdic operator lost them

[@tomtrenter3208]

LCDR John A. Williamson, USNR was very good at mathematics and was able to plot and predict target and own ship motion and come up with good underwater fire control solutions. He spent a fair amount of time at Key West FL training sailors for ASW and got to try out his ideas there. He also developed the famous "Willianson turn" to aid recovery of man over board sailors.

[@johnstreet797]

I've done that a tome or two

[@H0neyB2dg3r]

Just found your channel. I love any documentaries about WW2 and have seen a lot. Somehow I hadn't heard about this before. Can't wait to catch up and see what else you cover. ❤

[@neuralwarp]

"The _mythical_ USS England" ? Surely you mean _legendary_ ?

[@philsalvatore3902]

I have seen enough of the Dark video series to think the narrator is not a native English speaker.

[@andrew3203]

There are too many legends and far fewer myths. As any modern person knows, rarity scale goes like this: normal, uncommon, rare, epic, legendary, mythic, divine.

[@MG-cp8xk]

Good film .The Wheezers and Dodgers strike again! (the uk's Admiralty's Department of Miscellaneous Weapon Development.)

[@fatboyrowing]

Destroyer Escorts…. The little warships that could.

[@richardsimms251]

Excellent video

[@Veldtian1]

Do a 'Dark Seas' episode on the US Navy forward operating repair dry docks for warships set up in sneaky little pacific island atolls and bays helping ships get repaired quickly and sent back into action faster, really don't hear much about them.

[@mikeloghry9521]

Now that is a Great Idea. I 2ND THAT.

[@boxhawk5070]

Until 2001 Bath Iron Works had one in Casco Bay, Maine. It was built in 1944 and used in the Pacific. It is now at a shipyard in Croatia.

[@AsrielDreemurYT653]

Do it!

[@seanmcmullen4274]

news to me. i have never heard about these.

[@davidc6510]

Great story and narration. Thanks for sharing

[@jaegerbomb269]

USS England was awesome!

[@mikeloghry9521]

Had a fantastic Crew. SALUTE

[@2KXMKR]

Flower Class Corvettes also had the Hedgehog fitted to them. Tiny little escort ships with a single deck gun, some AA guns and depth charge launchers and rollers at the stern. The Hedgehog was their primary weapon. K181 HMCS Sackville is the only living Flower Class Corvette and is moored as a museum in Halifax, Canada. You can see her on Google maps.

[@andycorbett3052]

Thanks for posting this. Have not seen much on KZbin reference this weapon. Did not realise that Stuart Blacker was involved in developing this. I knew that he had early involvement in what went on to become the Infantry PIAT, after further development by Millis Jefferis of Ministry Defence 1 (affectionately known as Churchills Toyshop). I had assumed that this was only used by the Royal Navy, and did not realise it was adopted and used as it would see to great effect by the American navy. Love the channel, keep the content coming.

[@jcorbett9620]

It was also used as a "bunker busting" weapon fitted to the Churchill tank. Called the Churchill AVRE, one of Hobarts "Funnies" that was part of the 79th Armoured brigade, it featured a 240mm petard mortar replacing the main gun, fired on the same principle as the hedgehog, but used to blow up bunkers on the beaches during D-Day. If you want to know more about the development of these weapons and the men who came up with them, I recommend reading "The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare: Churchill's Mavericks: Plotting Hitler's Defeat" by Giles Milton

[@andycorbett3052]

@@jcorbett9620 Thanks for the update. Yet again I was not aware that this was a development of Blacker's original device. Apparently Hobarts funnies made a real difference on the British beaches during D Day. Not sure if the Canadians used them but the American top brass were allegedly luke warm to their use on their front. The Churchill's Mavericks you refer to, is this a different group MD 1?

[@jcorbett9620]

@@andycorbett3052 No, it's the same group of people. The book covers the groups formation, recruitment of all the maverick personnel (including Stewart Blacker), integration into SOE (becoming MIR (C)) and all the work they undertook, until they were disbanded at the end of WWII. The Allied forces that hit Juno, Sword and Gold, all had "Funnies" supporting the assault, so that would include the Canadian divisions.The Americans were offered the use of all of them, but only chose to take the Sherman DD's, but they were launched too far away and in the wrong place, forcing them to try and cross the prevailing tide, which swamped a lot of them. How much of a difference it would have made to US casualties on Utah and Omaha, if the "Funnies" had been fully utilised, is something that is unknown.

[@nelsonhoneyfarms7665]

Thank you for this video on the hedgehog. Very interesting.My great uncle (by marriage)was CaptPendleton of the USS England. I sure wish I was old enough to have heard his stories.

[@jaybird1229]

The Hedgehog 🦔 and the underwater radar, sonar, were the game changers that doomed the U-boats as an offensive weapon. By the end of the war, a U-boat was lucky just to return to port after her patrol. After 1943, it was ' Hell in the 🌊 sea ' to be in a U-boat. The thing was, if the Germans had built 👷 a lot more of the U-boats instead of wasting it on surface warships before the war, they would have knocked England out of the war.

[@andypeterson8013]

Not really, it was the Enigma machine that was the game changer for the Allies in the Atlantic. Once we got our hands on the Enigma it was over for the U-Boats.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@andypeterson8013 You haven't allowed for the importance of HF/DF.

[@tedthesailor172]

But by the same token, If Britain had applied itself to anti-submarine warfare during the interwar years between 1918- 1937, after the terrible onslaught of U-boats during WW1, we'd have been ready for the challenge, instead of losing millions of tone of merchant shipping and men while playing catch-up...

[@lightfootpathfinder8218]

Britain not England

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@tedthesailor172 Perhaps, although the over-confidence all navies felt in the use of asdic/sonar was a factor. Moreover, the Admiralty never expected to be required to fight against Germany and Italy unsupported by the French fleet. As a result, the Royal Navy was much more stretched than any pre-war planning had assumed. When you also include the fact that the German submarine fleet was never expected to have had access to French Atlantic ports, but was assumed to have to make the long voyage around the North of Scotland even to reach the Atlantic, the need for any 'catch up' was not surprising.

[@johnryder1713]

The Aussie Army fitted a Hedgehog for use on land on the back of a Matilda Tank!

[@kjamison5951]

The people who won the Second World War were not just the Allied Forces, they included the boffins behind the Allied Forces. The Nazis had underground, hardened, reinforced concrete bunkers where they accumulated the scientific elite of the countries which they occupied. The Allies had blokes tinkering in sheds. Barnes-Wallace, bouncing bomb is just one example.

[@PacoOtis]

Excellently presented! Carry on!

[@rpddsmith]

what's interesting is that the 35lb warhead is the same size as the explosive charge in a 2 ton 16" AP shell.

[@martinnermut2582]

Because the water warhead doesnt need metal casing (the destroying effect is made by shards not by explosive itself). In deep water, the water aroung works as casing

[@stevekerp1]

You have the perfect voice, inflection and intonation for these videos.

[@ljprep6250]

The aliens in Battleship have truly improved on these Hedgehogs, but all of them, including these oldies, work very well.

[@The8224sm]

The depth charge projectile known as Squid performed a similar role to HedgeHog. The charge was fired from the side of the vessel, despite different iterations it was less successful than Hedgehog.

[@jameswoods7276]

If you want to see one of these up close you can come to Halifax NS and go visit the HMCS Sackville our WW2 navy memorial / museum. Highly recommended for your Halifax visit to do list. Next door is the Maritime Maritime Museum of the Atlantic. They have quite a few exhibits including a pretty good collection from the Titanic.

[@stephenbritton9297]

My dad's DD was credited with 2.5 U-Boat kills. U-173, U-73, and an assist on U-960, all in the Med. However, all were depth charge or depth charge/surface action kills.

[@BoabyGeorge]

amazing content and amazing information Dark team you are most definitely in the top echelons of content producers thank you and I sincerely appreciate all the content across all your channels

[@michaelawford7325]

I'll say it again, I like the programmes, good and very informative, but please calm down on the commentary, cut down the number of words per minute and the ease off on the tension. For me it distracts from what I see and hear. Listen to Sir Laurence Olivier and David Attenborough, the masters of voice over !

[@sunnycat69]

Brits used to come up with awesome weapons

[@dg115]

We still do, we just don't talk about.

[@AsrielDreemurYT653]

Damn right

[@AsrielDreemurYT653]

U.S.A. isn’t the only one.

[@sunnycat69]

Now you have a nhs and no mill :(

[@hermittao]

My father served on the Destroyer Escort LEWIS in the Pacific. He mentioned having a Hedgehog battery onboard. God Bless all who served, defending our Nation.

[@carrickrichards2457]

Captain Walker RN, the UK's ASW doctrine lead, reported a kill on his first use of a hedgehog, a bit to his surprise (Biography 'Walker RN' by Terence Robertson)

[@markdimeo7060]

As always, another exciting and informative video

[@nicolek4076]

No. It was not invented by "Lootenent Stuart Blacker", but by "Lettenant Stuart Blacker". Yes. That's how the word in pronounced in Royal Navy. "... enough to sink an entire submarine." Presumably, before this innovation, it had only been possible to sink parts of a submarine.

[@nickbedingfield1699]

Leftenant ( a typo surely )

[@nicolek4076]

@@nickbedingfield1699 I was very specific. "Leftenant" in the army, "lettenant" in the navy.

[@brucegibbins3792]

Pedantic nonsense. Not a worthwhile contribution at all.

[@coachhannah2403]

Loit-nant in Kriegsmarine

[@nicolek4076]

@@coachhannah2403 Quite correct, if you're talking about an officer in the Kriegsmarine. In this case, the officer in question was in the Royal Navy.

[@jtarchitecture8939]

Great video - enjoying your channel!