"The Swerve: How the World Became Modern," Stephen Greenblatt, The University of Kansas

[@peterkerj7357]

video starts at 9:00

[@nobodynowhere7163]

The swerve is a masterful work. I couldn't put it down. Dr. Greenblatt is one of the greatest minds of our time.

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

There seems to be an inconsistency in Locke's thinking regarding the limits of religious toleration. If Locke's argument is that no one can be compelled to believe in a particular religious doctrine because faith and belief are personal, and therefor cannot be compelled, how can a non believer be compelled to believe by the threat of punishment? They can't of course, so it doesn't matter if the punishment for atheism is death, belief is never going to be result of the fear of being put to death - that's not how belief works (as Locke understands). All you have left is the threat of death for being an atheist, as a means of compelling the atheist to abide by the rules of society. But the death penalty can (and was) implemented for many crimes, so the threat of death remains equal whether the state has the death penalty for atheism, or not. The atheist still doesn't fear eternal damnation (which is the only real means of compelling good behaviour that religions have) - nor do they believe in any gods. Which brings us to the real reason that atheists were put to death - to prevent the spread of the idea that there might not be any gods.

[@sattarabus]

Wholesome food for thought. The threesome, Lucretius, Montaigne, and Shakespeare must have smiled on the other side of the grave. Stephen should not have qualified his confession at the end with a self-deprecating 'flapdoodle'. We are such stuff as dreams are made on and our little life is rounded with a sleep---often disturbed by nightmares. Very lucid and erudite presentation.

[@michaeldunne3379]

How could Shakespeare and Spencer be influenced by Lucretius if the first English translation was 1682?

[@robertgerrity878]

1602 by Florio.

[@lanepianta3624]

An extraordinary talk by an extraordinary scholar. Marvelous!

[@stevenbollinger9776]

I read The Swerve, finally, after years of my non-Classicist friends praising it to the skies and Classicists criticizing it as inaccurate. I didn't like it. Greenblatt's writing style is beautiful, but the historical inaccuracies are just too egregious. More on that: thewrongmonkey.blogspot.com/2017/11/stephen-greenblatts-swerve-is-not-as.html

[@plekkchand]

Thank you, that is a valuable link, and is in harmony with my own skepticism.

[@tarnopol]

I haven't read it, but it may well be a case of, "I really like Lucretius. He had a big influence on me. So, in an act of both gratitude and near-narcissism, I am exaggerating his importance to the point of dubbing him the source of modernity and thus all that is good and true in the world. Because he had a huge personal impact on me." Greenblatt is no fool, but that's the point: a lot of intellectual pursuits take this form, including in science. It's just all-too-human, and in a still semi-open society people can point such things out, wring out what's worthwhile in Greenblatt (or anyone else, including Lucretius), and leave the rest. (Good blog, by the way!)

[@dianasitek3595]

Thanks so much for this information!

[@ensilguz]

A pity that his voice is not clear enough and that he tries to speak faster than his mind tries to say.

[@김근배-d6x]

I was Epicurean.

[@hm5142]

As a physicist, I see the world as described in religious tracts as trivial and meaningless. Seeing the world as it is reveals a great beauty and depth that is completely lost in the stories designed to frighten people into desired behavior.

[@AtlantaBill]

I wish Dr Greenblatt wouldn't use the term 'pagan'. What does the term mean but "a cult not our own".

[@stevenbollinger9776]

The Latin term "pagan" was originally an insulting term referring to rural people and carrying connotations of unsophistication. A near equivalent in English would be "bumpkin." Early Christians starting applying it to all non-Christians. Classy, huh? And never mind that many of the last holdouts against Christianity (Ausonius, Claudian, Macrobius, Symmachus, etc) were among the greatest writers of Latin, and as urban and urbane as could be.

[@zanar4758]

I do not understand , and not appreciate, the author's overuse of quotes...