The Symbolism of Contraception & NFP

[@DerekJFiedler]

11:38 - glad Jonathan and I's conversation helped contribute to your insightful essay. "Our age in general IS contraseptive." What a way to say it; it explains so much. We seek pleasure without participation, yet the commitment and discipline of participation yields deeper levels of pleasure. Go figure. Loved your turn, "Sexual union is an image of the cosmic redemption of the world." You did a good job "arousing" a higher spiritual practice in the holy union of matrimony. Bravo JP.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Loved the inclusion of NFP to the conversation. Also like how you bring biology into the symbolic mix. Fun article. Excellent work as always JP.

[@j.p.marceau5146]

Thank you Derek

[@garrettvandenberg2031]

Seriously, man, this is so good. I feel like a lot of these ideas have been floating around in our circle a little bit but you put them into words so elegantly and powerfully. Great job

[@j.p.marceau5146]

Thanks Garrett :)

[@metaspacecrownedbytime4579]

That was amazing. Thank you for that correct perspective and my new understanding.

[@j.p.marceau5146]

Thanks for taking the time and God bless, JP

[@muadek]

Fantastic job, JP!

[@j.p.marceau5146]

Thank you :)

[@ALLHEART_]

May Christ Almighty, through the prayers of His most chaste and virgin Mother, heal us from the diseased and tainted understanding and practice of sexuality which afflicts our minds, our bodies, and our culture, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[@j.p.marceau5146]

Amen

[@DerekJFiedler]

Me: dang, that's a convincing argument. Me: (throws contraceptives in trash)

[@j.p.marceau5146]

hahaha

[@ubacilio]

Jajaja the OG has talked

[@parkercoelho9036]

Can we submit questions about this through the symbolic world blog?

[@j.p.marceau5146]

The blog is broken at the moment 🙃

[@clivemakongo]

How do you respond to the idea that our emotional responses to sex might no longer be suited for the world as it exists today. And also, what do you say to the idea that contraception has allowed for women to have a more broad participation in the world as a whole than just being in the home?

[@j.p.marceau5146]

Hello Clive, thanks for taking the time to ask good questions. I don't think I can fully respond in this format, but I'll try. Maybe I'll write a proper follow-up article at some point, but here it is for now: I don't think that our emotional situation is fundamentally different today from what it has always been. In many ways, the situation today isn't even as messy as it was in, say, Imperial Rome. We have technology, but people had brothels, slaves, pits for undesired offspring, and idols. Pagans back then argued that Christian standards were unrealistic, just like pagans say today. But if Christians managed to reorder their emotions back then, so can we today. An important degree of asceticism has always been required to order our emotional responses with their deeper nature. (There's a deep analogy between our technological troubles today and the fall or Rome, by the way. You can check out Jonathan Pageau is excellent on this kzbin.info/www/bejne/f528imSAhr15bKs ) I think the idea you mention in your second question is true. I don't necessarily think that broader participation is the world is in itself a good thing, however. After all, the hermit spending all day in prayer is more important than the people who are in the world. We have a modern bias towards external action that is part of our current breakdown in my opinion. With the Church, I think that staying home vs working in the world is best left to the individual discernment of women. Because contraceptives cut us off from several layers of reality, however, I think that they impede proper discernment. I hope that helps and thanks again Clive, JP

[@clivemakongo]

@@j.p.marceau5146 thank you for your response. It's not exactly what I expected you to say so it's definitely food for thought. I'm really struggling with trying to see what's going on when you guys talk about symbolism so i'm grateful you took the time.

[@petemaguire8677]

Thank you for that excellent video. I just came away with one question. You said that NFP is as effective as other forms of contraception when done properly. If this is so, then why is it any different? The pleasure is arguably higher but the risk is the same

[@j.p.marceau5146]

Hello Pete, The abstinence and the fact that you do not yourself put up a barrier make huge psychological, narrative and cosmic differences. I would encourage you to go over the argument again with that in mind, it's really what I'm trying to unpack, though I do not do so perfectly, of course :) Best, JP

[@petemaguire8677]

@@j.p.marceau5146 yes, that makes sense. Thanks for your reply P

[@forthegloryofthelord]

How do you know all that? Serious question.

[@j.p.marceau5146]

Hello, I mainly get my material from classic theology, which I frame using the symbolic framework of the Pageau brothers. In this case I'm using John Paul II's Theology of the Body, and I frame it with the male/female symbolism of the Pageau brothers. You may want to check out the text version for more references if you want more :) Thanks for watching, JP

[@verntweld51]

I love when Jesus says”from the beginning it was not so”

[@j.p.marceau5146]

That was a great response indeed