The Synclavier, Michael Jackson and a Copyright Conundrum

[@AlexBallMusic]

The plot thickens: kzbin.info/www/bejne/omSXpmxjj9mWjJY

[@Ha_Gg]

Denny will be the guest of Martinelli

[@luc7976]

Today they also posted how sound was programmed. Seems basically FM sound (with operator modulation set to max): kzbin.info/www/bejne/raPUn3d8eLqteNE

[@allenpaley]

Another chapter emerges: kzbin.info/www/bejne/goqon2uDmbOlfMU

[@johnadriandalton]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/goqon2uDmbOlfMU

[@AlexBallMusic]

Waiting for an ironic copyright notice claiming the Synclavier demo is "Beat It". Let's see...

[@lucyac3]

I'm waiting on it too, my first thought was to check the description to see if it had been flagged.

[@robertsyrett1992]

Playing music on youtube is like russian roulette with loaded dice in a casino on the Hindenburg.

[@MrAliensix]

You should have chucked a filter sweep in for good measure. They'd be all over you! :D

[@sticky170]

Video demonitized yet? Same thing happend to people using Prophet presets.

[@paulartola9536]

Alex Ball videos get rubber-stamp approval from YT!

[@williamkaylor1191]

I was Chief Engineer at a post production studio in Burbank CA that had 4 Synclavier IIs that were used for sound design and effects. This was before PCs were everywhere, and analog tape recorders were still used, but digital recording was crashing the party. The Synclavier was it's own computer, using hexadecimal programing, and ran voltages inside at crazy high currents. 5 volts at 20 amps was one I recall. The kind of stuff that would kill you if you touched it. They were the size of a refrigerator and made as much heat as a 1000 watt heater. Most users had dedicated air conditioned machine rooms. This studio put them in the attic to save space and they would crash multiple times a day during the summer when it would be over 100 degrees in the attic. Just a story of life in the trenches of the Entertainment Biz

[@MrScrooge1980]

Dope story

[@v12alpine]

5 volts can never kill you no matter the amps.

[@carriersignal]

@@v12alpine Exactly. Has anyone ever known anyone that was electrocuted by a 12 volt car battery? No. I hate it when people say stupid shit.

[@ryananthony4840]

Lol maybe not, but you can definitely weld with a car battery

[@totaltwit]

@@v12alpine yeh the numbers quoted don't add up, but we get the idea. :) Although it asks questions when spoken by "Chief Engineer"

[@danseq]

I worked as a studio assistant for DJ a few years after this happened so I can speak from his perspective only. He told me it was “lifted off the record” because Michael was quite enamored with the record and played it frequently. Due to the half-step difference we think it was just replayed using the same preset but tuned down a half step in an effort to differentiate it slightly. In any case it was Denny that created that preset. Denny didn’t really care too much at the time about this rather brazen plagiarism because he was also selling the Synclavier systems, and Michael bought two of them (the commissions were substantial on systems costing well into the mid six figures-especially at the time). On top of this Michael hired Denny to work on Bad for about two months, during which time he created a lot of the sound effects sequences on that album. I don’t know the details but by that point a certain amount of money had changed hands and it was not a small amount. As far as credit is concerned, Denny is not a person to look backwards so he just forgot about the whole thing and moved on. His ambivalence is also evidenced by the fact that I can recall answering a few phone calls from Michael. Must have been in 1986-87 or so. He was trying fairly persistently to get Denny to return to LA to work on the next album as well, but Denny was by then too involved in other projects and wasn’t interested-not due to any animosity per se, and certainly not because of this Beat It sound-but just having felt that once was enough. Ultimately Denny left the music business entirely a few years later to focus exclusively on software development. Edit 4/12/21: I think it is important to clarify that although the Synclavier was known as one of the first samplers, this sound was not a sample and did not use the sampling technology per se. It was programmed by DJ from scratch using the Synclavier's onboard synthesis engine (Resynthesis and/or FM) and thus could be replayed in any key on any Synclavier without formant shifts and so on.

[@zmix]

Fascinating..!

[@stickyfox]

I am almost certain, knowing nothing about the circumstances, that the *real* reason the melody was tuned down a half step because it was written for a synth; and Beat It was written in E♭ for Eddie's guitar.

[@marshallkohlhaas80]

@@stickyfox nyce point Eddie loved the 1/2 step down

[@gnosjo]

@@stickyfox I don’t think so. The tempo is still faster. And since Eddie only plays the solo, I don’t think the key mattered for him. Steve Lukather, who plays all guitars except the solo, talks about his work on the song here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKi6l6Bjer5nl7c

[@CynHicks]

@@gnosjo For solo guitar work the key can matter when the guitar is tuned in a lower pitch. I'm saying that it can, not that it must. It can limit your ability to 'arpeggiate' in your highest octave. Especially if you use a lot of riffing in your solo writing. A minor pain if any for sure but he was a huge star at that time and you know how they can be.

[@Doctormix]

wow!!!! I had no idea!!!!!! Thanks for the info!!!!

[@AlexBallMusic]

Waiting for you to make a video about how your finger slipped and you bought a Synclavier. 😉

[@lucasc5622]

@@AlexBallMusic i hate when that happens, i've ended up with two now!

[@mik300z]

Get a room you two :;

[@FLH3official]

Hey, my other favourite YT musician! Well if even Claudio didn't know, Alex made a good job! For those who want to hear (and sample?) the full demo disc here's a 28' video of it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5S6fZ9ufNGZrKs

[@FLH3official]

@@AlexBallMusic The problem is to find a working one to buy, like a Fairlight CMI you can't find that under the hoof of a horse :-)

[@ivansmith590]

Nice piece of synth and pop history. Gong but not forgotten.

[@AlexBallMusic]

Bah dum pssh (bong)

[@wingflanagan]

Oh! I wish I'd thought of that one! Been trying to think of one but I just can't beat it!

[@nofretzDW]

As a cymbal of my love for puns, I say “well done”, Sir.

[@TheLarryBrown]

Dude! This is 2023, that was 1983! That history is looooong gong man.

[@TheLarryBrown]

Gong? I think you meant "bong.

[@soundsuitestudios-b-9723]

I bought a Synclavier II in 1981 from David Nichtern ("Midnight at the Oasis"). Brad Naples met us at David's apartment on the upper west side of Manhattan. I had it before "Thriller" came out, and after scrolling through the sounds, I dismissed that particular sound as musically useless. Then "Thriller" was released and there it was. It hadn't occurred to me to use it as an introduction, and after hearing "Beat It," I figured it was just as well, since no one would believe that I didn't plagiarize Michael Jackson. On the plus side, where that sound came from was my little secret - well, one I shared with a very small group of people - that is until this video came out. (My unit was #17, built in 1980). It was completely obsolete six months after I bought it thanks to the Yamaha DX7.

[@humanchannel7825]

How expensive was it?

[@Esperluet]

​@@humanchannel7825 Around 25000 of actual dollars

[@nofretzDW]

I found a copy of the rather threatening letter that Denny Jaeger wrote to MJ after he heard the song on the radio: “They told him, "Don't you ever come around here" "Don't wanna see your face, you better disappear" The fire's in their eyes and their words are really clear So beat it, just beat it You better run, you better do what you can Don't wanna see no blood, don't be a macho man You wanna be tough, better do what you can So beat it, but you wanna be bad Just beat it (beat it), beat it (beat it) No one wants to be defeated Showin' how funky and strong is your fight It doesn't matter who's wrong or right Just beat it (beat it) Just beat it (beat it) Just beat it (beat it) Just beat it (beat it, uh) They're out to get you, better leave while you can Don't wanna be a boy, you wanna be a man You wanna stay alive, better do what you can So beat it, just beat it”

[@Lowerhaightstreet]

This is internet GOLD right here

[@MacXpert74]

Apparently Michael wasn't impressed with the letter and he wrote back: "Well They Say The Sky's The Limit And To Me That's Really True But My Friend You Have Seen Nothing Just Wait 'Til I Get Through Because I'm Bad, I'm Bad- Come On (Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad) You Know I'm Bad, I'm Bad- You Know It (Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad) And The Whole World Has To Answer Right Now Just To Tell You Once Again, Who's Bad . . ."

[@nofretzDW]

@@MacXpert74 I believe there is video footage of physical confrontations somewhere. Like in an abandoned warehouse and a subway or something. Idk. It’s been awhile.

[@tiefighter3445]

@@nofretzDW 😅

[@PeterWalkerHP16c]

It's true! Jaeger left the business and went off to start a burger chain.

[@AlexBallMusic]

Another thought on this: If I loaded up that sound and played that exact intro and licensed it to a big brand for a Global Advertising campaign I would bet that the publisher would come straight after it saying "that's our copyright, it's Beat It". If I'd only used the intro and none of the rest of Beat It, can they sue? If not, why not? To answer the "did they sample it" question: Definitely not, because "Beat It" is a semi-tone lower and yet 8pm faster. In 1982 (when it was recorded) a sample would be lower and slower or higher and faster as this was the limit of the technology of the day. So this proves that they replayed it on the Synclavier. Also to people saying "you can't copyright a sound" ,that isn't the point being made at all. The question is whether a _composition_ used to demonstrate a specific sound can be interpolated verbatim into another composition, to the extent that you can't tell the two apart.

[@hautehussey]

I think the examples to demonstrate a sound are definitely copyrightable in general, but the real question here is is this part significant enough to stand on its own. Given the nature of the sound itself, I’d argue that this would be the natural way to use it, and a half step down would be about as much variation as you would expect to ever get. Imagine if they were just regular piano sounds instead, would there be a case? Probably not.

[@TeaScholar]

For the record, you CAN in fact tune up or down a sample without making it play faster or slower. Example: Kontakt using the “time machine” setting

[@AlexBallMusic]

@@TeaScholar You couldn't in 1983 though.

[@DougMcDave]

This reminds me of the Vanilla Ice ripoff of Queen and David Bowie, collaboration. What happened to that issue?

[@AlexBallMusic]

@@DougMcDave I checked and the official writing credits are David Bowie, Freddie Mercury, John Deacon, Brian May, Roger Taylor, Robert Matthew Van Winkle, Floyd Brown & Mario La Vell Johnson. I won't write the percentages out, but they obviously came to an agreement.

[@ZeconMusicUK]

Hopefully the sad MJ fan in me can provide some insight here. Though there are many who argue as to whether they directly sampled the actual "Incredible Sounds of Synclavier" record or not, that's not the case (not talking about the composition, but the audio recording itself). No one is quite sure who originally heard the demo record and introduced it to Michael, but it was Tom Bahler (composer of "She's Out of My Life") who would then replay the identical parts to the demo record on his own Synclavier for the intro and some additional notes in the build up to Eddie Van Halen's guitar solo. He is credited on the Thriller album for this. As far as Denny Jaeger's later work on the BAD album is concerned, those sharp intro riser sounds to "Smooth Criminal" and "Another Part of Me" as well as a layer of the intro FX in Dirty Diana were created by Denny. Immensely talented sound designer. Sadly Michael's album credits always miss out a whole array of personnel that worked on the records. The Synclavier itself would continue to make appearances on every Michael album with the exception of "Invincible".

[@AlexBallMusic]

Thanks for the information. Someone pointed out the obvious fact that the Jackson version is played faster and lower making it impossible that it was sampled (it would be faster and higher or slower and lower due to the nature of sampling). It's also processed and has panning, so it's certain it was replayed.

[@mu_zines]

@@AlexBallMusic thanks, that answers my redundant comment, then! 😆

[@MaxZorin8]

"Sadly Michael's album credits always miss out a whole array of personnel that worked on the records. " It happens for most popular albums, actually.

[@ram-4]

This is fantastic info, thanks. 😊 I've ALWAYS loved that THX-like intro to "Another Part Of Me", and wondered where the hell it was from. That said, Mike (and Quincy too, sadly) was known for skipping out a few folks on the credits side. The most known is the Phillinganes-written section on "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough", but also synth guy Michael Boddicker who did play on some of those albums, only to be credited as "synth programmer" or something along those lines.

[@cnfuzz]

@@AlexBallMusic first time i heard synclav 2 was the korgis everybody learn sometimes (koto sample) and their dog barking hit rovers return

[@MrDogmanstarr]

I bought a Synclavier ll keyboard only, (no computer) in a pawn shop in Las Vegas for $100. The shop owner said it belonged to Wayne Newton and was sized in a raid by the US Gov for owning taxes and the shop owner bought it at an auction. Only in Vegas!

[@AlexBallMusic]

Haha! That's a great story.

[@DJjakedrake]

Nice! I lifted up a quilt on top of a pile of junk, in my schools recording studio. It was a broken synclaviar, serial number 4 or 5. They were giving it away for free to some student and pulled it out of storage.

[@davidwells7509]

"I bought a Synclavier ll... in a pawn shop in Las Vegas" Did Rick call in an expert to access the correct value? Oh wait, you were buying not selling...

[@ToumalRakesh]

I received a copyright claim for presets on the D-50 from sony music back in 1998. They first claimed I was offering mp3 files for download (which was true but my own stuff), then they claimed that I was using their music as samples (which was false), then they claimed I was using presets they had "rights to". I told them to write me as soon as Stephen King pays royalties to Triumph for having written bestsellers on their typewriters.

[@marcbrasse747]

Good one!

[@josephwright5921]

Does Sony own Roland?

[@MrPartch]

@@josephwright5921 Did you know that Sony owns even NASA? Yep, they own almost everything

[@MrPartch]

@Jayo Delaware did you know that Sony actually owns %70 of all gold and silver mines in the world?

[@alexsicko]

people (especially synth makers) should start suing them back, as a patch doesnt belong to them. and if the author of the patch later decides to sue artists for using his patch, he should be hanged in front of the people like in the middle age. roland,yamaha etc will have to make contracts like ''any of your patches you create for the following synth that is to be on sale will be free of use in any situation be it personal or commercial'' for their hired staff. if not, then people should stop buying their crap.

[@mykhailoskachkov5946]

don't forget that those were times when people were not that crazy about copyrighting every single bit of sounds. if you just leave those seven notes alone no one would listen to them. because they are not a song and generally speaking not are even complete motive. so being credited for sound design is one thing and raising "arrangement copyrighting" discussion is completely other. ('cause at the end you may end up appealing for copyright violations for arpeggios, gammas and intervals. but isn't this a road to nowhere?)

[@crnkmnky]

I feel like we‘re already on that road (cue Talking Heads song, lol). It seems like the tradition was that the _lyricists_ got writing credit. On Michael Jackson’s last album (Invincible), lead producers and assistant producers were credited as songwriters on almost every track (perhaps a contractual agreement). On a recent Rihanna or Beyoncé album, songwriting credits will appear for all sorts of small contributions and borrowed elements. Now we see fewer credits for synth and drum programming, possibly because hip-hop culture has labeled this as “production.” One could argue that cluttered credits are due to modern pop songs being cut-and-paste Frankenstein monstrosities. I would say that the real difference is now it’s easier to identify where you dug up the “bodies.” There are now decades of legal precedence against producers who didn’t credit singers or license samples. There is new fear that a judge/jury will be swayed by _timbral_ similarity despite the compositions being otherwise different (a la Blurred Lines), so credits are given preemptively (Jidenna vs Iggy Azalea).

[@bartholomewlyons]

@@crnkmnky credit isn’t enough, must pay moooooneys bro

[@toitoitoy]

And here comes youtube, with a claim on the filter sweep.

[@AlexBallMusic]

I'm waiting for KZbin to say that the Synclavier demo is Beat It. The irony would be so pure you could send it into an operating theatre without any PPE.

[@crnkmnky]

@@AlexBallMusic or PPG

[@wolfgangrecordings]

was that a chemical brothers track? (the filter sweep dmca)

[@danseq]

No lie about KZbin...but in fact the sound was actually a combination of additive and fm synthesis so it wasn’t actually a filter sweep at all even though it has some of those characteristics. It’s been 25 years since I’ve used the synclavier so I’m a little fuzzy but I don’t even think it had analog style VCF filters at the time.

[@wietzejohanneskrikke1910]

It didn't have filters

[@michaelthorpe1379]

weirdly enough I once bought a Synclavier II in the 90´s from Chris Youdell in L.A. and it had tons of sounds and also the sequences from Beat It on there. I sold it to U96. Wish I had kept it

[@AndersEngerJensen]

Loving it! Didn't know about that demonstration, I just thought it was a patch they just used and played themselves. Did you get any hits from MJ's label for using these seconds of it in this video btw?

[@AlexBallMusic]

Not yet, will be hilarious if I do...

[@everpuremusic]

@@AlexBallMusic That was actually my first thought, when I just watched your video and started reading the comments! 😂

[@MrCucumber416]

The sound is available in Analog Lab. It's the patch Phased Gong in Synclavier.

[@christopherd.watkins285]

That blue sample record/vinyl was great; I think (and hope) I still have it. Way back in time - days of engineering old-school effects and synthesizers. Always wanted one of these synthesizers. I didn't know this story. Thanks for stirring the memory.

[@EmilioLoizzo]

For anyone that feels the need for a synclavier: Arturia made a virtual emulation of it. Yes, there is also the beat it preset

[@AmirRazan]

Intresting!

[@MeneTekelUpharsin]

Does is actually sound like a real Synclavier?

[@EmilioLoizzo]

@@MeneTekelUpharsin No idea, I've never had the pleasure to play one

[@awaken77]

@@MeneTekelUpharsin havent heard particularly this one, but other Arturia's soft synthesizers sounding pretty much authentic (Minimoog, Prophet-5, DX7). They know how to do it.

[@fishwigy]

@@awaken77 for the dx7 you can do good with the free dexed plugin and it uses very little cpu unlike the arturia

[@nativeVS]

Isn't there also the famous George Harrison Moog album where the second side was just a demo by Bernie Krause (and of course only credited to George).

[@AlexBallMusic]

I didn't know this... I'll have to find out.

[@nativeVS]

@@AlexBallMusic The record is called Electronic Sound, released on another highly succesful Apple Corps venture called Zapple.

[@AlexBallMusic]

@@nativeVS Thanks

[@onocoffee]

Thanks for an informative, entertaining and succinct video. There are so many other KZbinrs who would have unnecessarily stretched this into a six day video for more watch time. It is greatly appreciated!

[@AlexBallMusic]

Thank you. It didn't need to be any longer than this and I'm glad that came across.

[@KnapfordMaster98]

I'm wondering if MJ's production team thought "well Michael loves this demo, if anyone asks we can just say "oh we used the preset" and it'll be ok."

[@AlexBallMusic]

They probably assumed it was fine, yeah.

[@quikstiks4781]

If you go and listen to Greg Philingane’s talking bout his contribution to the Destiny and Thriller albums on the red bull music academy interview, it starts to paint a picture of how MJ handled business back then...

[@rillloudmother]

all the big stars did that and they all still do it... it's basically, 'i'm taking this and if you complain too loudly you'll never work again.'

[@JoeDiVitaMusic]

​@@rillloudmother-yep - Paul Simon is a well documented example

[@rillloudmother]

@@JoeDiVitaMusic in this case at least new England digital definitely sold a few synths, so I'm sure they aren't too mad...

[@iankomosa311]

Quincy Jones said the same thing when asked to tell something about MJ which many people don't know

[@Estuera]

After I did a video about famous synth presets and wrongly claimed that this sound to came out of a CMI (Thanks to Arturia misleadingly adding it to their CMI presets and me not researching that one properly) I got _loads_ of comments correcting me. After seeing this I start to think I might have been correct after all... What if 'Beat it' simply used a sampled Synclavier demo and who knows maybe they even used a CMI to do that...🤔 But its probably simply replayed on the real thing. Not exactly hard to reproduce. Whatever the truth behind it is, it's a massive sound from an amazing synth.

[@Lantertronics]

I always thought it was strange that they used the exact same notes, considering they had an actual Synclavier and could play whatever notes they wanted.

[@mu_zines]

@@Lantertronics I'm wondering whether they recreated the demo notes exactly as a fun little easter egg that only other notable artists/producers (the ones that could afford to own a Synclavier) would recognise?

[@m.o.n.d.e.g.r.e.e.n]

yesss. on watching this video i was like "id always thought it was a CMI but who must have told me?" couldnt put my finger on it but yeh was arturia lol thanks for reminding

[@jonassteur9538]

@Jayo Delaware We're not talking about just any producer here though. Quite sure Quincy Jones had a CMI available. If he used it to sample this we might never know though. Replayed seems to be the most likely option still.

[@mu_zines]

@Jayo Delaware As someone who was around in 1982, I agree but they could just have easily, and much more likely have recorded it from the record directly onto the multitrack if they wanted the actual recording - it wouldn't have to be "sampled" to be "lifted". Anyway, as has been stated, it's not the same recording and that's how we know it was replayed, so it's a moot point...

[@danielpirone8028]

Very cool- thanks for sharing! Would love a long form video on the synclavier and perhaps some fairlight fun too!

[@maartensynth]

The synclavier was also used on the jazz from hell album by Frank Zappa

[@craigbrowning9448]

Early Hammond organs (Pre-WWII) have a notice on the serial plate that said "Licensed for experimental and amateur use only" because Hammond wanted legal limitations on who could use the instrument on recordings. One of the first violators was a pop organist name with Milt Herth.

[@sephbox]

Ah yes the good old Cyan-claviérre 😂. Nice tidbit. I didn't look at the runtime, so I first thought my Internet had died, when it was over in a blink.

[@AlexBallMusic]

Just a quickie. 😉

[@EspenKraft]

Highly enjoyable video Alex! No matter the controversy and conundrums, it's a very cool sound! ;-)

[@AlexBallMusic]

Cheers Espen.

[@station2station544]

0:14 Ive also often heard SIN - kluh - VEER. Another masterpiece, Alex!

[@AlexBallMusic]

I've seen videos where it's pronounced differently by every other person, god only knows!

[@Shred_The_Weapon]

The video itself is interesting to watch, Alex, but that conclusion definitely made it all worthwhile.

[@graemedavidson499]

The Synclavier also gets credited in the end titles for the film Starman!

[@AlexBallMusic]

...and Flight of the Navigator!

[@graemedavidson499]

@@AlexBallMusic So it was - I forgot about that and had watched it recently on UK Freeview!

[@graemedavidson499]

@@AlexBallMusic I’m now wondering what synths were used were used to make sound effects in the likes of Star Trek TNG etc. I think the Synclavier gets a mention but I’ve not researched yet...

[@tuftynuts]

@@graemedavidson499 The Siiiinclaveer (did I do it right?) is all over reams of TV and film stuff. It was (is?) a mainstay of audio production and soundtrack peeps.

[@graemedavidson499]

@@tuftynuts I just discovered that too - I had not realised how prevalent is was in the film industry!

[@MusicTechOfficial]

A short and sweet sample exploder. Love it. Nice work Alex!

[@DungeonStudio]

Much like the spanish guitar riff on The Beatles album, which I always thought was George playing it. But recently learned that was a 'demo' riff supplied on the Mellotron I guess the band all liked so much.

[@AlexBallMusic]

The mellotron loops and Optigan loops are another fascinating one. They're used in piles of songs from the Kinks to Lilly Allen, Paloma Faith, Kelis, the Eels, Jon Brion, Crowded House and many more. I made a video showing a few examples: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoHYf5Wef9ejqc0

[@adrianmccombe625]

Another great vid Alex. I do hope the BBC clock onto your videos as you would be the ideal person for a good synth music documentary. I am struggling to find a decent one and find your vids incredibly informative and entertaining. Keep up the good work.

[@AndyKing1963]

Exactly the same preset was used by Tangerine Dream on their studio album EXIT (recorded June-July 1981), on a track called KIEW MISSION kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpS7qnZ7bptqh9E. I'm currently working on a book listing their equipment - 114 pages so far ;)

[@theodorecupier5920]

Beat me to it. (No pun intended) I just put my old copy of EXIT in the car CD player, and instantly remembered this KZbin video. 😃

[@AndyKing1963]

The fourth revised edition of 'HANDLE WITH CARE - a List of TANGERINE DREAM's Stage & Studio Equipment' (1968 - 2022) now available: 510 page PDF covering 1968 - 2022

[@FluxCondenser]

I love this video. Short, sweet, informative and entertaining. My personal favorite use of the Synclavier is Pat Metheny’s work, but looking at the Wikipedia entry I was surprised and delighted to see it was also used by an number of my other favorite artists.

[@johneeeemarry34]

Pat’s over use of the synclavier on ‘my jazzy psychedelic asshole’ was one of the reasons his record company refused to release it.

[@comfy_21771]

Ah yes the "SiGnClavur?" I love that thing

[@AlexBallMusic]

Nailed it.

[@Mind_Idiot]

*instantly starts beatboxing when the beat it beat should come in*

[@RasMix1]

Frank zappa did some amazing stuff with his.

[@graxjpg]

He sure as heck did!

[@marcbrasse747]

Sue him as well!

[@glyn5385]

Frank Zappa`s Jazz From Hell is a superb album showing what the synclaviar can do in the hands of a genius

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

Yeah man he really dug deep into the capabilities of this machine. He was really devoted.

[@honeybadger2732]

@@glyn5385 Yep - that album both interested and freaked me out lol

[@JacobVBurg]

YES!! I've been reading about the Synclav all week, PERFECT TIMING!

[@AlexBallMusic]

Small world!

[@RegebroRepairs]

I went "What? Beat it starts durdurdurndurdur durndurdur! Not GOOOONG!" Turns out, I have never heard the intro to "Beat It"... Well, before today.

[@AlexBallMusic]

Before durdur and after "Goooong" it goes "doof pff doof pff doof pff do-doof cha" Don't forget that.

[@RegebroRepairs]

@@AlexBallMusic Absolutely true, and I hadn't heard that either. I blame MTV.

[@marcbrasse747]

Extra, extra! Read all about it! New under rock dwelling creature discovered! :-)

[@Lantertronics]

@@AlexBallMusic KZbin really needs a LOL smiley selection.

[@thewizzla]

Yeah cuz your shitty corprate radio has probably edited half your favorite songs by a little or a lot mostly ti cut time.

[@prodby_trxllo]

Awsome content as always!

[@AlyxxTheRat]

I guess Michael got away with it because... well... this sample recording was probably so rare and niche back then, nobody would know he sampled it verbatim.

[@AlexBallMusic]

This is very true! It's not like you couldd stick it into KZbin to find out.

[@marcbrasse747]

That would be no legal reason at all. Sampling is sampling! A more reasonable interpretation has recently however been accepted into European law. If the sample is not directly recognizable it is permitted. That should at last put an end to overly greedy sample protection law suits. Only about 40 years too late though. Oops, you english just opted out of Europe, didn't you? Be affraid Ball(s)! Be very affraid! :-)

[@cnfuzz]

@@marcbrasse747 tangerine dream kiew mission anyone???

[@marcbrasse747]

@@cnfuzz I am not aware of a sampling case surroundig that track. I am however rather sure that a Gizomotron sample from Godley and Creme's Consequences (totally forgotten mega-masterpeice!) has been sampled by them and used on Logos!

[@symph1744]

Technically its not sampled but covered

[@sunpathviewer]

On theThriller tour my brother was the Synclavier roadie. He mainly safeguarded the three that were used on the tour. Two on stage and one back up.

[@Rockinsoul1214]

👍

[@ZethKeeper]

"Wasn't me-ee-ee! Oooh!"

[@Real_Veganizer]

best ending to a video EVER 😂

[@ucity88]

I was COMPLETELY SLAIN by that...hahahahaha

[@RaniOsnat]

What an incredible story. I first saw and heard a Synclavier II up-close in 1982 at the Tel Aviv University electronic music lab. It was a high school class visit. It was one of those “aha” moments that turned me on to electronic music. About a year later I bought one of the first DX7s.

[@AlexBallMusic]

Nice. The FM stuff was licensed from Yamaha I believe and it does sound very similar. The additive and sampling stuff was obviously different, as was all the sequencing. Did you have a go on it back in 1982?

[@RaniOsnat]

@@AlexBallMusic Unfortunately no... it was "hands off". That lab also had a huge Moog modular and the two technologies seemed decades apart (I guess because they really were!). But I distinctly remember the bell sounds emitting from the Synclavier and me thinking "wow!". BTW, love your channel Alex... by far the most entertaining and informative in this space.

[@marcmitchell7830]

I was only telling a friend about this last week as i was trying to explain the history & relevance of each arturia v8 synth :)

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

Jack Nitzsche also used that thing for the Soundtrack of John Carpenter's "Starman". He even sampled the voice of his wife for the sweet spheric-sounding voice sound of the film's Leitmotif.

[@FLH3official]

A lot of us in the "synth geeks community" knows the story of the Synclav' demo disc and MJ but it's always good to tell the story again for the the milenium youngsters.

[@AlexBallMusic]

I've known about it for years and I was reminded of it the other day. I checked and realised that nobody had made a video about it, so I thought I would.

[@everpuremusic]

I am 51, so I don't think I count as "millenium youngster" anymore. But I did not know this story.

[@42exabyte17]

It´s even known by some millenials who figured this out by themselves. But I can certainly understand your satisfaction... :D

[@FLH3official]

@@everpuremusic You look less, dear. :-)

[@ricomajestic]

@@everpuremusic Well you are a Gen X cat...so you are safe!

[@winterland2011]

I've been obsessed where I listened to that sound before and if you check Kiew Mission from Tangerine Dream, they use it maybe for the first time on an official release in EXIT, 1981. Am I right they pioneered Synclavier and Synclavier II?? You can listen to it at 00:35 in Kiew Mission.

[@AlexBallMusic]

Yep, they used this sound and one of the other presets which is a dissonant swell. Funny how lazy musicians are, even the super talented ones.

[@mik300z]

Ha! Kiew mission anyone? Tangerine dream....very same sound

[@ElvenWarrior]

Love the short videos just as much as the longer it helps with the crippling ball fix i need

[@AlexBallMusic]

I hope you don't have crippling balls? You should get those fixed.

[@DeeNimmin]

I’m a little smarter today. Thanks!

[@shkeni]

From what I read a while ago Quincy Jones heard the Synclavier demo disc, showed it to Jackson, and Michael wanted the exact sound, which was recreated in the studio. Denny Jager got to work with them later as recognition basically, and because he and Jackson clicked.

[@jacobsmithjr]

Quincy Jones was quoted as saying MJ was very greedy and didn't want to give anyone credit for anything.

[@lmmjm10377]

Oh god and you believe it like always. 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@HalonOfficial]

Finally a new video! Love your videous Alex! :)

[@AlexBallMusic]

Cheers!

[@Ishkur23]

Junkie XL has a Synclavier and he used this preset with aplomb on the Deadpool score.

[@tonalaxis_AXiS_MODULAR]

Excellent composer/artist/DJ/Soundesigner/teaboyXL :)

[@AlexBallMusic]

Ah yes, I remember that.

[@FailedMuso]

Came here for the knowledge, stayed for the impression at the end... ;-) Top work again, Alex :-)

[@AlexBallMusic]

He-he

[@FailedMuso]

@@AlexBallMusic It's the joke that keeps on giving! ;-)

[@13LackBerry1]

Quincy Jones said Michael stole alot of music and styles from everyone. Ijs!🤔🤫😳

[@vercetti_03]

Oh c'mon. Quincy Jones be saying anything to stay relevant.

[@tubester4567]

M Jackson couldnt play an instrument so most of "his" songs relied on other people. MJ took a lot of ideas from other people, including his look, the black hat, black suit and white socks kzbin.info/www/bejne/ronSn35ueqeko80 When you're as big as MJ was, and supported by record companies, you can buy the rights to anything. Theres no way MJ wrote Beat It or any song all by himself. Other big entertainers did similar things like Elvis, he would only sing a song if he was given a writing credit.

[@Davidhjrick]

Yup. Michael Jackson was one hell of a conman

[@vercetti_03]

@@tubester4567 Nothing is original under the sun. MJ took inspiration from a lot of artists, but that doesn't mean he's stole anything. Quincy Jones words it like it's a bad thing.

[@jonboy82]

A good artist copies, a great artist steals

[@scottcupp8129]

This synth was waaaaaayyy ahead of its time! Amazing machine!

[@wingflanagan]

Amazing Michael Jackson impression! I couldn't do that without, um...injuring myself. Hope you didn't pull a muscle. I noticed it was the last thing in the video, so maybe narration after that point was impossible. Hope you recover soon, if that's the case. On the other hand, now might be a good time to drag out that old doo-wop number you've been working on...the one with the falsetto bridge...

[@AlexBallMusic]

You'll be relie-he-heved to know that although I said "ow!", it was quickly followed by a "he-he".

[@jamesstevens2362]

I’m glad they ended up talking about the copyright of the tune used for the sound demo, and not the actual sound itself, because Denny Jaeger didn’t create the sound. He sampled it. Who was the sound’s original source, and who is never mentioned? Edgar Frose of Tangerine Dream! It was used on TD’s 1981 album “Exit”, at the start of “Kiev Mission”. The difference between TD’s original and Denny’s sample is the sustain (or release) time. The sustain on TD’s original is noticeably longer than Denny’s. I’m guessing that Edgar Frose created the sound on his PPG. He came up with a number of amazing patches on the PPG for that album.

[@AlexBallMusic]

I don't think that's right because the Synclavier II didn't have sampling initially, that was added later. This preset was synthesized using the FM or additive engines. Tangerine Dream just used the same preset when they got their unit.

[@jamesstevens2362]

@@AlexBallMusic , yep you’re right! I was sure TD didn’t use a Synclavier, but I was wrong. I found an interview with Edgar Frose where he talks about using the metallic gong on Exit. They kept it in the studio and it wasn’t used as part of their tour equipment, so we won’t see it on any of their live performance videos from that time. So, it was Denny that created the original patch.

[@AlexBallMusic]

@@jamesstevens2362 Thanks for checking into it, that's interesting. I guess it was too costly to take on the road.

[@YUSSEB8E]

The ‘ woooh’ at the start 😂

[@AlexBallMusic]

😉

[@Bthelick]

Quincy Jones did mention in a very frank interview that Jackson was pretty greedy and didn't credit writers on several occasions. I wonder if this was one.

[@romulus_]

quincy jones says a lot of stuff. i'll just leave it there.

[@angelafisher299]

Well I'll be damn! I didn't realize that the "Beat It" intro was a sample. My mother just reminisced about the parties back in the day when Beat It would come on, the dance floor got hot.

[@cortical1]

What if instead of the MJ estate, Denny Jaeger reached out and threatened you with a copyright violation? Would that be telling? Also, did you know that EVH's Eruption was actually written and first performed by Lawrence W. Goldstein III on the 1978 demo 8-track released for the Multimoog? 🙃

[@AlexBallMusic]

Is there a recording of the Multimoog demo anywhere? That would be fascinating too!

[@lorntrent3308]

EVH recorded Eruption in 1977

[@cortical1]

@@lorntrent3308 Is that the only far-fetched aspect of this you could identify? 🙃

[@lorntrent3308]

@@cortical1 What part did I identify as far-fetched?

[@cortical1]

@@lorntrent3308 Anything else to correct about that imaginary situation?

[@YodatheHobbit]

Thank you for the answers about that synth that I was looking for. I've been wondering what that sound is for a VERY long time.

[@loopop]

😱

[@AlexBallMusic]

Inde-he-heed!

[@TheWorld_2099]

Hello Mr Loopop..!

[@HazyJ28]

Hey very cool to see you here. You have influenced many purchasing decisions of mine, and often help me come to grips with new equipment quickly

[@loopop]

@@HazyJ28 thanks for the comment, my pleasure

[@Memory_Blanks]

Thanks for the gem drop Alex.

[@Gainn]

Obligatory "Hey, Behringer" comment for the algo.

[@LukaRay]

I remember reading about this incident when trying to find the synth that was used on 'Beat It'. Sounds like the Synclavier II actually is an interesting synth. Great video Alex!

[@artactreact2387]

those are notes that exist. they are there and can be played. a a possible conbination of notes should not be able to automatically be considered an invention of which someone can claim authorship..that to my eyes it's ludicrous but.. its as if a dancing technique as spin with your body could only be reproduced by one person ,. or ..The minute that three not combination and the key Are a possibility., can be played by more than one person! this., disconcerts me quite .., but. Again, that's just my instinct. And., if anything, i can think it a nice compliment..

[@Frog_Puppet]

I actually bought a copy of the demo on ebay after I heard it on youtube, wasnt aware of the copyright dispute. Thanks for the explanation!

[@AlexBallMusic]

Did you do a double take when it got to this patch on the disk?

[@Frog_Puppet]

@@AlexBallMusic Don't rember but I probably should have!

[@PureAmbientDrone]

So M. Jackson settled before "hee hee heee" had a lawsuit on his hands knowing he couldn't "Beat It". (Sorry I had to do it, my "BAD")

[@AlexBallMusic]

[@TimothyReeves]

I have that Patrick Gleeson Four Seasons CD. The liner notes say “This ‘digital-to-digital’ recording was transferred from the computer memory of two Synclavier II digital synthesizers in San Francisco on December 19, 1980” I used to have the FZ Jazz from Hell CD, but I must have lost it along the way....

[@eighteenfiftynine]

He didn't invent the "moonwalk" either... 🤷🏻

[@iansalgado9709]

Never claimed to.

[@eighteenfiftynine]

@@enzoeltrago2362 no, but I didn't steal someone else's move and rename it

[@iansalgado9709]

@@eighteenfiftynine Steal it? nobody else thought of using it and he perfected it too. stop being an ass!

[@eighteenfiftynine]

@@iansalgado9709 nobody else thought of using it? It was a b-boy move.

[@sankofaafari4374]

Jeffrey Daniel showed Michael Jackson how to moonwalk.

[@tonalaxis_AXiS_MODULAR]

Alex Ball Entertainer........ Good video as always Alex, thank you.

[@AlexBallMusic]

Thank you.

[@rootstudio247]

Thanks for the story and for mentioning my video - greatly appreciated :-)

[@AlexBallMusic]

Thanks for putting that up for people to enjoy! Fascinating stuff.

[@cole1]

Truly fascinating. Thank you for telling this story so efficiently!

[@GrijzePilion]

I like this short format. Think you'll get a lot of views on these

[@AlexBallMusic]

It is getting good views, yes. Took all of two hours to make this video. Some others have taken months. Maybe I should do more low-effort stuff. 😉

[@ryananthony4840]

Can I get that gong sound on my Roland JD-800🤔😳😳?????

[@Audiorial]

I totally ignored that copyright thing around Beat It / Synclavier

[@jimbojazza5539]

Really interesting video - and some really informed comments too. I remember reading a Frank Zappa interview way back when, and he said that the only person who had the full Synclavier suite was Michael Jackson. Who had two of them. You're not going to sue a customer like that. As to whether it was played or sampled, I'd say played. But then again, wasn't the Publison Infernal available in 1982? That could even do the sound manipulation on the record.

[@bobboberson2024]

Really interesting stuff, Alex. It's the second and third scenarios on what happened legally.

[@AdamBorseti]

".....and most people have probably never even heard of the man who wrote it." or the synth, because let's be honest about the average listener for a second. Another great video by you!

[@AlexBallMusic]

"That weird gong sound" will suffice for normal who don't suffer synth obsessions like us.

[@AdamBorseti]

@@AlexBallMusic Exactly lol

[@evilelf5967]

I am fortunate enough to know someone who has many many old school and fully functioning synths/keyboards.among his faves are a hydrasynth and a fully refurbed synclavier and a few other choice bits of kit.

[@logicalblackman8228]

Actually, it’s “SIN-cla-veer” according to one of the creators, Jon Appleton (r.ip.)

[@AlexBallMusic]

Yeah, it's the French word for "key bearer" that was historically used to describe a keyboard. That's been changed to "cla-veer" by the time it's reached American English. As they were an American company, it would have made more sense to pronounce it that way, too, admittedly.

[@culttelevision]

@@AlexBallMusic Yeah, most definitely throughout the 80s in musicland in England, we all pronounced it the anglicised, traditional English way of pronouncing french words "SYN-CLAV-IER" with a very British "er" as in w*nker! 🍆

[@blakepotter7937]

Wild! Hope Tom didn't get such an issue for Deadpool. Great video, thanks!

[@nathanlansford1882]

Jon Appleton used that sound--so identified later as Michael Jackson's "Beat It" intro--on "Sashasonjon," from his 1982 *Four Fantasies For Synclavier* album.

[@damonsummers]

Fascinating insight to one of those rumour/story here laid bare, MJ was not the first to do this sort of thing. Oh the stories I could tell! But he also will not be the last!

[@inthefade]

I was just watching the VHS demonstration of the Synclavier and the dude playing it also did the exact demo.

[@hautehussey]

A half step down is pretty significant in something so simple with full whole notes.

[@AlexBallMusic]

In a court case they'd transpose them into the same key. I've seen numerous musicology reports and that's the first thing that's done. Whether they'd discount the sound and just look at the notes or whether the preset is the smoking gun, I'd love to know. Will have to ask a music lawyer's opinion next time I have dealings with one.

[@ReubenSound]

I've been thinking of using the demo on the Yamaha PSS390 for a chart topper. It's pretty good.

[@AlexBallMusic]

Sounds like a Super Mario.

[@ReubenSound]

@@AlexBallMusic it does!

[@NedBouhalassaVideos]

I LOVED it! (And not just because you said NED).... What a fascinating story. Good sleuthing. I paid a lot for Jaeger's String Library waaaay back in the days.

[@6581punk]

Ned.......Ryerson.....

[@AlexBallMusic]

If you don't own a Synclavier then the world is not in equilibrium.

[@tonelab]

Wow.. how fascinating! That intro is probably one of the most recognisable intros of all time 🤔

[@ChurchOfTheHolyMho]

FWIW, I bought Synclavier Go! on the Black Friday sale. It is surprisingly more powerful than the 8 voice non-sampling Synclavier II (serial #2 ?) we had at university, and sounds fairly authentic (my professor removed some output caps). I now remember what I loved and hated about the original. Having fun with the new (to me) features. I do have some UI workflow issues - although the layout is very logical. Definitely quite a few smiles for only a few $.

[@culttelevision]

Another superbly researched film beautifully produced. The whole sampling conundrum back in the day was a bit of a grey area. The Fairlight's original library used loads of dodgy samples by Peter Vogel's own admission but that's what everybody did at the time including a young me. The Fairlight Orch Hit was used on EVERYTHING in the 80s , whether layered or clearly in the mix. Paul Hardcastle used it throughout The Wizard as well as sampling Vincent Price from Thriller for the laugh. What isn't such public knowledge is that LOADS of artists had to do retrospective deals with people they sampled from decades earlier including Bomb The Bass and Paul Hardcastle and many had to change or re-record future -re-releases to avoid paying even more clearances retrospectively . For example Doug E. Fresh had to remove the whole 'Michelle' segment that Slick Rick sang himself due to the publishing rights. You can still find it on some old compilations but not easily. So the law had to catch up and make it easier for clearances and as you know, many agencies clear samples these days quickly and cost effectively but in the 80s it was a future potential minefield . Regarding the Synclavier Gong, I suspect @anthonymarinellimusic might have some clues as he was the synth programmer on Thriller and the Synclavier daddy of the 80s.

[@bengsynthmusic]

A video on your Juno-6 please.

[@DouglasRosser]

When this video gets you a copyright strike for infringing "Beat It", please do another video.