The T26E5 Is Broken

The T26E5 is a 6.3 American heavy tank that Gaijin added to War Thunder in update Ground Breaking. Colloquially known as the Pershing Jumbo, it offers thick frontal armor in exchange for worse mobility when compared to the regular M26. Unfortunately, it's broken in more ways than one.
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#warthunder​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tanks​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tankhistory

[@Spookston]

The ventilator housing was corrected this morning. BR decompression is the obvious solution, but I doubt Gaijin would do anything significant in that respect. Buffing the damage on its APCR could work but that might also have far-reaching balancing implications.

[@zwojack7285]

Armor is relevant in War Thunder?

[@hazardous458]

@@zwojack7285 yes

[@adrewadrew5860]

The only thing that can i come up to balance is that APCR start working better and can do something. Then T26E5 can be 6.7

[@Viking88Power]

Apparently they are aware of the other issues and are being worked on.

[@kevincho1187]

quicker response time than the vehicle

[@akashinyaa4039]

I've bounced well aimed point blank shots from king tigers with this thing and your telling its armor is even stronger?!

[@tigerbesteverything]

i bounce jagdtiger shot 5 times with it at point blank before he died from my team.

[@hazardous458]

Yes.

[@Wotplaya4]

Yes it was pretty much designed to be completely immune to the long 88. It's most likely going to 6.7, or 7.0. Btw: it could fire HEAT, but it wouldn't be as interesting of a vehicle at 7.0+.

[@skl-1371]

Man it happened once in my T-34-85 (5.7) that a tiger 2 p shot me side hull from point blank below the turret & he only managed to set me on fire!, more so I used Obj 685 & shot an APFSDS into a Wiesel from short range into the side & it showed non-pen, this literally happened today while the tiger one was I think 1 or 2 updates prior (probably 2).

[@pride2184]

@@Wotplaya4 how the fuck is that balanced? If its immune from a tiger 2 its gonna be same tier as tiger with being faster and more mobile and its machine guns already make tigers mobility mute.. it should be higher. Its not like tigers arent used to being uptiered or taken advantage of.

[@penzorphallos3199]

The problem of finding the correct br range of the t26E5 isn't completely due to the tank's own fault and design flaws, but also because at br 7.7-8.7 you have about 20 years worth of tank development compressed in there that have a chance to fight 1944 tanks....

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

I wish it were 7.7 and not 7.3. 1965 Leo 1 at 7.3 fights the fucking 1944 Jumbo 76 ROFL. That's like the Sturmpanzerwagen A7V fighting T-34 tanks. 1940-1945 spans 6.7 BRs, but 1945-1965 spans... 1 BR. It's actually insane that they haven't added 1 or 2 BRs to the top end and carried tanks up by their era, MBTs up 1, 1965-1975 up .7, post-war and early cold war up .3. Seems so fucking simple.

[@shadowraven3253]

@@CyberneticArgumentCreator They shouls hard decompress the BRs cause what's the point in late WW2 tanks if you fight early cold war tanks that are 2 leagues above you while you have to hope for no heat if you're in a heavy or long range battles? How do you balance anything that's in the timezone of the E5 if anything below will get bend over and anything higher will force you to bend?

[@vaelophisnyx9873]

@@shadowraven3253 because it drives rage sales. decompression hurts their bottom line because people would enjoy playing for free, and while yes some would still spend money, they would get a lot less from premium vehicle sales and such

[@XSpamDragonX]

@@vaelophisnyx9873 Ive literally been chat banned for saying this, so we all know its true.

[@strategicperson95]

@@vaelophisnyx9873 I'd believe that and honestly it is why I will no longer play anything 6.0-6.7 anymore due to this overly compressed region. My late WW2 vehicle has to deal with mid-late cold war ATGMs; hell I go one further to just say they have my WW2 era fighting ATGMs period, a new thing to watch out for but easy to get wrecked by even more so than sniping players due to no fault on your end. At least the guy firing HEAT has to get the range right and not have any object in his gun view, being around the bamboo forests in the Japan map will frustrate HEAT throwers since it will prematurely detonate them if it so much as grazes it. ATGMs, it's just park your butt behind cover only exposing the missile launcher within the max range and fire on the enemy with impunity with little fear of retaliation. It's a huge learning curve that even my slightly average ass skill level knows it exists, there is very little I can do to counter it, especially at ranges over 800 meters due to crew skills not being that high and the next missile or gun shot is going to get you more often before the rangefinder can even calculate an estimated range that one just guesses because it's faster, if your gunner hadn't been killed by the first ATGM, been heavily crippled (knocked out transmission, turret drive, etc), or the tank outright destroyed. If Gaijin really thinks this makes profit I'm more than willing to give high tier vehicles the middle finger with longer que times and just stick with the 3.0-5.7 range. I don't need anything after 5.7 to have fun.

[@StoneCoolds]

"The whole situation its a mess, and i dont see how this can be balanced" war thunder in a nutshell

[@federicovelutini6115]

Hard to push it up though, at 6.7 there's the super pershing and that already gets destroyed by heat-fs even though it has some spaced armor.

[@PoisoningShadow671]

Damn it's been awhile since I played, I remember when standard pershing was 6.7, lol.

[@TheEpicCowboy]

The Maus is just the most extreme case of the problem that has plagued and will plague all tanks that follow the "armour over all else" philosophy. The tanks change but the problem stays the same. Just with varying degrees of being unbalancable.

[@angryman_]

Personally I don't see why it's such a big deal to put tanks like the Maus in more favorable lower tiers, it isn't like shooting the gun and detreading it is difficult to do, nor is it like the Maus is going to be able to flank and kill an entire team. Tanks like the Maus *SHOULD* feel like you are tough to kill, given that it's the only reason anyone would want to play it, why would anyone play something as slow as the Maus if you can still be killed in a single hit? If anything the "balance" would be the fact that a Maus is never going to be able to escape bombing or rocket runs and you will be a much more prioritized target than any other tank.

[@Rexhunterj]

@@angryman_ The issue is that the Maus is so horridly hard to kill, yet there are other tanks whose armor doesn't function at all. EG; the T-34 1940. Go shoot an APHE from the same T-34 at it, aim for the front flood lamp at the armor behind roughly where the commander's head is. The shell passes through the flood lamp 5mm of steel and then ignores the 90mm of effective thickness behind it because the game detected that the shell hit 5mm of homogeneous armor and passed through unscathed. The game has no concept of an interior in the tank, just exterior armor and modules.

[@angryman_]

@@Rexhunterj I don't know what you mean by the maus is "horridly hard to kill" it's a sluggish, easy to hit target. All you have to do is disable it's guns and tracks and it's utterly harmless, you can drive right up to it and lob a round or two through it's side and bobs your uncle. Even excluding aircraft or artillery the vast majority of 6.3 vehicles can absolutely pierce it's side, and everything can pierce it's rear armor. Even a goddamn firefly can pierce it's side with it's APCBC round. If you're struggling to kill the maus when it's already at such a ridiculous BR you just suck at the game.

[@kimjanek646]

Fixing APCR damage and penetration would be a start to balance vehicles like the Jumbo and T26E5. The 76mm APCR was almost as strong effective as the Panthers APCR shell and the 90mm M304 had similiar performance to the long 88 APCR shell.

[@LocalDiscordCatgirl]

The 90mm apcr seems anaemic to me. When I use literally any other apcr, such as the german long 50mm, it’s like god’s own long rod. The 90mm stock apcr seems to bounce off completely flat surfaces and non-pen wet paper bags.

[@cynicalfox190]

At least on stats the 90mm APCR currently does outperform the long 88 APCR 90mm APCR at 500m -259mm at 0 degrees -192mm at 30 degrees -60mm at 60 degrees Long 88 APCR at 500m -252mm at 0 degrees -187mm at 30 degrees -59mm at 60 degrees

[@andrewzheng4038]

@@cynicalfox190 tbh APCR is just horrifically bad and needs to be buffed across the board for all countries, not just the US. It does no damage, doesn't pen things that it should be able to pen 1000m out, etc., etc., etc.

[@cynicalfox190]

@@andrewzheng4038 yeah I agree, but I was just pointing out that the 90mm APCR is actually outperforming the 88. I haven’t bothered to check the 76mm but I know it’s way off last time I checked and I haven’t read any changes in patch notes about 76mm APCR.

[@FillyCheesteak]

Lmao remember when the M4a3e2 76 APCR had 246mm of pen? That would be nice against Tiger II’s

[@anderlillemaa4392]

What stumps me is not thinking about the BR placement in any case, it's the horrific lack of quality control for what they release. They keep releasing broken vehicles in some form or another and even with proper bug reports they may not be fixed years after release, while in the meanwhile they release more broken stuff.

[@a.b.3455]

Man did you see the bofors??

[@bickboose9364]

At this point their QA "problem" seems to be more of a feature. It drives rage sales, as other comments put it.

[@Phantom-bh5ru]

Br decompression is needed so tanks like this and maus can be properly balanced

[@TR33ZY_CRTM]

Not even BR decompression can fix the Maus, instead, it will make things worse for whoever has to fight a Maus. (Just imagine fighting a Maus in a T-34-85, Sherman 76, or Comet I, because muh historical accuracy)

[@DatBoi_TheGudBIAS]

@@TR33ZY_CRTM br decompression doesn't mean historical brs or lowering brs, it means increasing the max br so dat there can be more spacement between tanks, so maus would not go to uptiers and neither t34 85

[@yuliusfrancis9542]

@@TR33ZY_CRTM that's a BR compression, not a decompression lmao. And decompression didnt have anything to do with historical accuracy.

[@Rexhunterj]

@@yuliusfrancis9542 I like how people keep saying that War Thunder tries to be historically accurate when it's very clear Gaijin don't give two hoots about accuracy and actually care about their whales wasting money on broken toys.

[@TheKing-qg3fv]

Make it have real armor and make it 6.7, then stats will make it go to 7.0, then it'll be removed like the Maus, that's my prediction. I don't believe that this tank can be balanced and every game i play in it is a stomp. If it's armor was increased it could regularly bounce any gun with decent angle past 500m. It already bounces long 88s consistently on the ufp and the turret cheeks are impervious as well. It can't stay long and it won't ever be fair if it's properly modeled imo.

[@Wotplaya4]

During armor trials the T26E5 used M348 HEATFS to shoot another T26E5. I guess if it moves up to 7.0 or 7.3 it could use that..? Wouldn't be a very interesting vehicle anymore tho...

[@Zorro9129]

If it can't be pierced from the front, flank it. Ever watched Kelly's Heroes?

[@AlbertWillHelmWestings2618]

@@Zorro9129 exactly

[@monekyinapanzer7357]

Zorro9129 not really the best argument when much of this competition are slow heavy machines that it is actually more maneuverable then. I can’t really agree with telling a tiger 2 or and IS-2 to flank it

[@Zorro9129]

@@monekyinapanzer7357 That's because they're the German/Russian versions of this tank and play the same way. If everyone is playing a heavy tank, you have a problem.

[@yacabo111]

"The whole situation is a mess, and I don't see any clear way to make things balanced" This describes WarThunder as a whole

[@colejones594]

Should just add dates that tanks where made and tanks can fight +\- 5 or 10 years every nation gona suffer at one point or another

[@frawich4253]

First thing I noticed about this tank is that the stat-card doesn't tell you the modified armor stats of this vehicle.... It basically just seems like a heavier M26 for no reason unless you look at the armor analysis

[@steamroller9945]

Yeah like wtf was the point of putting the t26e1-1 to 6.7?

[@Rexhunterj]

Most stat cards for most vehicle variants are like that, not immediately obvious about what is different. I think my biggest gripe is planes in that regard, the planes might be specifically for high altitude bomber killing or just B&Z at low alts, but you won't know unless you research the vehicle's IRL history and what players have discovered themselves about the in-game version. I want to play a tank game against tanks (or planes against planes) I dont want to pick up a college degree in history of mechanized warfare to play a game.

[@zweboi1094]

@@steamroller9945super pershing getting downtiered to 5.3 no thanks

[@mizzyymizz8174]

Yooo spookston I saw you in one of the games using this thing, you can even see me in the kill feed on your team as "GreatHornedRat" at 3:08 and my friend right after as "fiklego"

[@fiklego_pl]

Lmao right

[@lorenzooliveira1157]

Nice, luck is on your side this month!

[@Alexander-rj1rb]

based furries

[@mizzyymizz8174]

There's a difference being a fan of monster hunter and being a furry, I will never be the second lmao

[@DarthCody700]

Happy Great Horned Rat Day

[@PNolandS]

I've been enjoying the T26E5, even with the graphical bugs I've run into (coax mg does not move with the gun and the tracks are not visually fixed after they break and are repaired). I feel kind of guilty because I almost don't want Gaijin to fix it because it would end up going to either 6.7 (which I wouldn't have a HUGE problem with except for uptiers) or 7.0, in which case it would essentially be a significantly slower M46 without HEATFS and higher SP cost.

[@elit3uranium_playz399]

and oh my god.... the trapshots, all the fucking trapshots

[@PNolandS]

@@elit3uranium_playz399 I died to a kugelblitz front on in this thing, because one of his he rounds hit the turret cheek (what would normally be an instant ammo rack on other Pershings) and it nonpenned, but shot a fragment straight down through the driver's hatch killing my driver

[@mrs9935]

I think the biggest advantage is that it's quite hard to differentiate it from the regular Pershing which means people will shoot the upper front plate out of habit. And this also indirectly buffs the regular Pershing since now people will be weary and only go for the lower front plate instead of the upper front plate and turret.

[@hex6970]

the only thing that you can use to tell the difference is the canvas fabric cover over the mantlet. ...Which can be shot off from 2 or 3 hits and be hidden/disrupted by bushes to better hide what you're actually in

[@namduong6051]

@@hex6970 you can tell the difference between when the cover is shot off if you try hard enough. The T26E5's mantlet color is a bit off compare to the rest of the tank. Tho, it's not really an easy task to do and if they put bushes on the turret, good luck trying

[@296radithyasatria5]

You german mains never really thought about shooting the weakspot before

[@andrewyoung4473]

@@296radithyasatria5 yeah like its always been easy to hit the trolly turret on a king tiger.

[@combatantezoteric2965]

even the m26 is so good lmao. just have to angle a bit. I bounce long 75s and short 88s constantly with it. rarely I face a smarter or luckier player who shoots the turret cheeks.

[@coatofarms4439]

If Gaijin would just add two or three BRs they could alleviate problems like this much easier.

[@nahuelleandroarroyo]

I love that when a american heavy is added not being able to front bash it is considered "problematic".

[@Gary_The_Metro]

Meanwhile tiger II H fighting the 76 shermans: balans

[@gearz2570]

Well the gun doesn't get penetration and reload that a long 88 does

[@shronkler1994]

@@Gary_The_Metro and then the 76 shermans fighting 76mm t34s... and those tiger 2s going up to fight t54s and pattons... wtf is your point??

[@moechammaddjochan5118]

E5 in WT: Nerf'd every 0.01 seconds E5 in WoT: Literally unkillable

[@jacobm6428]

WOW guys no way gajin messed something up again 😮

[@Ropetor]

They literally copypasted the pershing and still went to live? god

[@hyperdimensionbliss]

Checks out for average amount of effort Russians put into things.

[@a.b.3455]

Nah they copy pasted the m26, the armour values on the stat card are identical.

[@shronkler1994]

@@a.b.3455 the m26 is the pershing

[@a.b.3455]

@@shronkler1994 yea you're right, I thought the perishing was the heavy tank

[@volatile100]

This thing is perfectly balanced as a counterweight to all the other 6.3 and 6.7 tanks that don't deserve it. Like the T25 and T20, neither of them deserve to be at 6.3 and 6.0 respectively.

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

Oh look another tank in the nightmare-compressed 6.3-6.7 range that needs to have another .3 step in it because on one side of its BR range you have the Tiger and IS-1 and on the other you have the Leo 1, Caernarvon, Object 120, etc so it's either invincible or useless. Leave it at 6.3, fix the armor, and give the US some usable armor for once. That's my take. I think heavies should be hard/impossible to take down from the front in many situations and balancing by uptiering things until their armor is useless ruins the fun of half of the sub-8.0 tech trees in the game. Balance by raising spawn cost of heavies so they are more precious on a team, not by negating their armor by making them face lolpen rounds from decades later.

[@cynicalfox190]

I have already pointed this out in another comment but with fixed armour this thing is genuinely impervious to anything less than a long 88, and the long 88 will struggle at anything more than 300m This is a Maus situation where in a downtier this thing becomes nigh unkillable. The Tiger II P isn’t even a fair comparison due to the American 76mm being able to pen the turret face at 1000m with the regular M62 shell. At 1000m this tank is genuinely unkillable to even the long 88 assuming it gets its armour values and angles corrected. Breaking the game more than it already is to make the game “fair” fix’s nothing and is an easy way to kill a game. Even increasing spawn point cost dosnt work unless heavy cost more spawn points than you start with otherwise why would the majority of American players not just take this thing as first spawn every time they get a downtier?

[@ronaldmcreagann6343]

@@cynicalfox190 funnily enough the Long 88 has a difficult time penning this thing point blank (outside weak points) when angled appropriately. Hell, I’ve found even the 128 will bounce or non pen more often than not.

[@sir.tempest5718]

@@cynicalfox190 lmao, I love how the Germans can have really good armored tanks but when the Americans get anything they can't front pen its a "problem" like yall love to say. flank. (I play russia btw)

[@cynicalfox190]

@@sir.tempest5718 I’ve already pointed out in other comments that I think the tigers also are an issue. I don’t get how me saying adding more op vehicles to “balance” other op vehicles equates to me being ok with one nation getting op vehicles in the first place. People like to assume that because i say something is an issue that means I must be happy about something else that has the exact same issue, I don’t see why you think I’m ok with Germany having op tanks. As for the matter at hand this tank if given accurate armour values will be impervious to any German guns less powerful than the long 88, as I’ve already said the very common American 76mm can pen a Tiger II P’s turret face at 1000m with the M62 shell. These are not comparable if it moves up to 6.7 if it gets the correct armour values then it’s absolutely comparable with the II H as they will have very similar armour profiles from the front the main difference being you have to shoot mantlet on the E5 and anywhere but the mantlet on the II H. Also I’m a russia main primarily and I’m grinding the British tree right now my stake in the game is as an observer which is why I’ve also pointed out in the past that the Tiger problem is due in part to Germany having a brain dead player base in general and gaijin balances on player stats more so than vehicle stats.

[@Captain_Price539]

@@sir.tempest5718 my thoughts exactly even you a Russian main understand US mains

[@Jarda-di4gd]

Well, If it'll go to 6.7, then it'll be another lost soul to immense powercreep that hides in this very BR. It's the worst possible BR right now in my opinion. 6.7 BR was already frustrating to play due to British stabilized guns with APDS and after the Germans lost their Panther IIs, 105 Kingtigers and got the Leopard I down to 7.3 it got even worse. Long story short, these heavies such as T29, T34, now T26, IS3, King Tigers, T32s when they get an uptier they are not useless... they are completely pointless in comparison with Centurions, AMX 30s, Leopards, M48s, STBs or T54s or even T55s. Just a progression vehicles how I like to call them, after you'll get pass them, there is no reason to come back, which is my biggest issue with War Thunder :(

[@reinbeers5322]

The stabilized Centurions shouldn't be able to meet this kind of WW2 tanks. It's just not possible to compete unless they make a mistake.

[@anakin50137]

One idea I've had about balancing tanks like this one is for tanks to have a limited up tier and down tier. What I mean is have it where tanks that are competitive in full down tiers but get thrashed in full up tiers have the BR range limited to same BR or down tiers. Take the 76 Sherman's for example, I haven't played them in a while but when I did they got stomped at full up tiers but if you lowered their BR they'd be seal clubbers at a a down tier

[@soybean9098]

Can't wait for the new US heavy to also get uptiered. Full 6.7US heavy suffering!

[@lector-dogmatixsicarii1537]

15k sl repairs incoming to go with facing missile dart-fs from 1970. Germany also still has its paper cats.

[@Grace17893]

Great job; God bless you man

[@cynicalfox190]

As of right now the ventilator housing is 242mm, the lower front plate has been increased in angle to 39 degrees but that’s still wrong so I don’t know why they changed it.

[@Wotplaya4]

I believe the underplate hasn't been changed at all yet, looked at it yesterday and it was still at 31°. Only where the ufp and lfp meet is it a magical 39°. Even though you're visually shooting the ufp.

[@cynicalfox190]

@@Wotplaya4 might have just been where I looked then, only did a quick check as I was watching the video

[@underscorezed2247]

construction angle doesn't match impactangle in hangar viewer because your camera is elevated relative to the center of the UFP, making it so that your round will act as if its being shot from above down to the hull

[@TheoHawk316]

In other games (not entirely like WT, but with similar content) the T26E5 is just a better pershing.

[@darktemplardelta268]

WOT?

[@DovahFett]

I call it the Ultra Pershing in World of Tanks, since it's better than the normal Pershing and the Super Pershing.

[@skyetj17]

@@DovahFett Isn't it also just flat out better than the T32? Considering that the T32 is a tech tree tank and the T26E5/Patriot is a prem?

[@gabrielnascimento1021]

Good job furry, they are moving it to 6.7

[@christianmichael4020]

The lower frontal plate angle issue here reminds me of the T32’s incorrect lfp angle it had for a while.

[@maplearrow1842]

Ah yes, another tank that suffers from br compression. Seriously I hope we’ll one day get a br gap between 6.7 and 7.3 tanks so late ww2 stuff can be separated from 5.7-6.0 tanks and be balanced with more freedom

[@br-sb6vu]

So basically cent mk 1 fucking dies

[@TrashFixation]

The IS-3/4 had a similar LFP model issue for a long time. They ended up changing the armor model to match reality and left the 3D model as-is until a new one could be commissioned.

[@fiklego_pl]

3:09 thanks for featuring me and my friend on a video!

[@panzerlite8108]

First time I met a E5 the day of the update, I couldn't figure out how to beat his vehicle, so I tracked him and took out his team, waiting for my team to side kill him, but I found it enjoying.

[@bipolarbiplane]

One thing I've noticed about the E5 is that in someplace the turret armor can go up to 500-900mm of effective armor against a long 88

[@arima272]

Thanks to you, its 6.7 thank you so much

[@Jeremyzth]

"the whole situation is a mess" sounds accurate to me when describing gaijin nowdays

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

Nice video!

[@zeus5276]

I remember when they added the M26E5 as a premium tank in WoT. Textbook powercreep, at least at the time.

[@102ndsmirnov7]

This thing is a bad addition to the game imo because if you're gonna remove the Maus which is effectively the same tank then they shouldn't have added this. Probably up-tier it a bit so it's not all that good but doesn't ruin lower BRs. Better make one vehicle weak than making a whole BR bracket die

[@niallking2762]

Couple things to note. The reason why the Maus can't be balanced is because of its all-around protection. For instance, if you lowered it to 7.3 it would fight tanks like the M26 and T-44, which cannot kill it from any angle outside of firing APCR (and even then, APCR vs a giant tank isn't exactly optimal). The T26E5 is a lot more like the Jumbo, hard to tackle frontally but easy to knock out from the side and rear, arguably easier than the Jumbo even. Right now at 6.3 it seems fine to me, it'll simply become one of those tanks that you should avoid engaging from the front (like the Ferdinand or Kingtiger H for a lot of other nation's tanks) in downtiers and simply be a support tank in uptiers.

[@102ndsmirnov7]

@@niallking2762 I haven't personally played against it yet and I am almost certain that I wouldn't have a problem against it even at 5.3 but I can't see it staying at 6.3 for long especially if it's LFP gets fixed as the general German player expects to be ale to pen anything frontally in their Tiger or Panther and they are probably gonna try engaging it from the front forever causing stats to shoot up and for its BR to do the same

[@sir.tempest5718]

"same tank" XD the maus is stupidly op or horrible this is perfectly fine at 6.3 because anything bigger then a long 88 can pen it, or as you germens players love to say. flank.

[@102ndsmirnov7]

@@sir.tempest5718 I still think that it will go up in BR and do personally believe that 6.7 is better for the game in general but it's not abhorrently unbalanced at its current BR

[@Gundam_Lesbian]

personally I think it's fine at 6.3, even once it gets its correct armour values. If the Germans can have a heavy tank t 6.3 that stomps in downtiers and does fine in uptiers (the Tiger II P), why shouldn't the US have one to counter those?

[@teox7967]

"why shouldn't the US have one to counter those?" bc its not germany or Russian..............

[@mohammedalbusaidi1425]

If u can’t kill a tiger 2p with its huge turret weak spot then I don’t know what to tell you.

[@ansleygrouff7652]

the problem is that almost nothing would be able to pen this thing from the front, but the tiger 2 p's turret is only like 100-120 effective or something on the front so even things well below its own br can still fight it

[@Mystic-Midnight]

@@mohammedalbusaidi1425 That huge turret weak spot is way more inconsistent than you'd think though

[@mohammedalbusaidi1425]

@@Mystic-Midnight I understand, tho it is more consistent than not. Same thing with mg ports on US tanks.

[@jankthunder4012]

the whole 5.0 to 7.0 br bracket is a clusterfuck

[@Haaton-of-the-Basement]

*6.0 to 7.0 4.7 to 5.7 is already good. Tigers and Panthers might be what they are, but a good ol Sherman/Jumbo taking away their cannon is satisfying. And also CAS grinds on them.

[@jankthunder4012]

@@Haaton-of-the-Basement I'm more referring to the relationships between up tiers and Downtiers in this BR bracket, whereas in most 1.0 br difference matchups the situation is one of you are at a distinct disadvantage but still have a good chance, in the jump from 5.0 to 6.0 you go from mainly ww2 heavies to mainly cold war heavies and the jump in armour protection and penetration values is such that you will come across many tanks that you simply cannot pen from the front even with TDs, and then going to 7.0 you're running into many vehicles with little to no armour and ATGMS where you're ironically better off in an SPAA than an SPG in the uptier as is the case in most other BR brackets

[@Haaton-of-the-Basement]

@@jankthunder4012 I hate the fact that when i playwith 5.3 vehicles, i always facing 6.3, but when playing 6.3 i never face 5.3. Straight up go to 7.3 like wtf is the matchmaking in this game. Note: this is my experience recently in the last 2 weeks.

[@magisterrleth3129]

As far as the reduced impact angle to construction angle, is there any way that could be shell normalization? Some shells are specifically designed to be able to normalize against a moderately sloped plate for a little extra pentrative power, like capped shells.

[@xvang9346]

Sirchby and I discussed about pretty much the whole T26E5 mess, this pretty much covers our entire conversation, we're expecting it to move to 6.7 once the changes are made. Cheers to his research.

[@KrypticWarrior2]

the solution is simple really, (and i say this with careful study as i have been playing the game for 9 years and care deeply for real unbiased balance) gaijin needs to decompress the BR's to allow a wider range of ranks for odd vehicles like the maus and T26E5. realistically we should be up to BR 12 or even 13 with the amount of vehicles that are in the game. their problematic solution whenever a vehicle doesn't perform is to move it down and not its opposition up. one of these days i'd like to actually get a spreadsheet made for a complete BR overhaul to prove that it can be done, problem is though i know it will likely be ignored because gaijin doesn't care and a lot of inexperienced and biased users will likely shoot it down because their favorite thing will be changed. this greatly kills my motivation to bother with it.

[@Rexhunterj]

Gaijin don't want the problem fixed. Games as a service is a system set up to take advantage of what we call whales as consumers.. people like me who sometimes pay for premium or a camo or something very rarely do not cause harm to the balance of a game, but whales do. Look at Genshin Impact's 5 star character problem, it has more 5 star characters than 4 star characters now and EVERYONE who played the game since launch bitterly wastes thousands of dollars rolling a slot machine to get them. The devs have essentially murdered the new player experience because the 1% of whales in the consumerbase completely feed their greed. When whales feed business, business put earplugs in because they are making money very successfully and anyone who challenges that from below is just not "business minded" Video games becoming a business has fundamentally ruined the longevity of video games. The last time I launched a game I had finished that was made after 2005 was a game that got an update and a friend was forcing me to jump on with him. But I can recount dozens of titles made in the 1990s that I have lovingly replayed many times and still reinstall them or drag my old console out to play them because they just video games at their core, not a slot machine to make money. I won't forget seeing a Lost Ark whale realising just how much money he lost paying to win when an asian free to play player crunched the math and told the whale how much money he cheated himself out of. The look of anguish on his face, embarassment and shame. These people have so much money they are out of touch with us common folk who earn 'normal' amounts of money. My house mate is a former whale, he spent tens of thousands of dollars on artwork in the furry community and even more on video games. He has since stopped purchasing art and supporting those people and instead spends a little more frugally on games now. But he explained to me one day when I asked him why he just throws his money away, "Because there's nothing else I need that I can use it on and it's better spent making me happy than sitting in an account unused." Not everyone has an investor mindset or the patience to bother with that but it is very clear that everyone when they come into a lot of money suddenly, lose touch with what we call common sense. These people need help as they are sick, friends should help each other not get addicted to these live service games.

[@Crisis2552]

Ah, so here's the Ultra Pershing we've been waiting for, good timing Gaijoob!

[@jegory6899]

I think the t26e5 sits well at 6.3 until it faces leos, bmps, marder A1s etc , but the t25 is shocking at 6.3, either it gets it’s stabiliser back or it goes to 6.0 even 5.7

[@dense_and_dull]

This thing is insanely survivable. One of my new favorite heavies.

[@ravenouself4181]

We really need a huge decompression update even if it means that the regular updates are skipped

[@yavuzefeyeniay7075]

hadn't have big server issues this much in earlier updates, it was disasterous

[@RippinBeefers]

Guess its a good thing that this is the next tank in line for me. Cant wait to finally fuck up all those Tiger 2s and IS6s I keep coming up against in my Sherman E2.

[@SuperCookieGaming_]

i think it should be at 6.7 when fixed. its a very common br queue so the number of uptiers is limited comparatively. the problem with it being useless in uptiers is the compression of 7.3-8.0. for some reason mouse guided atgms are at 7.3 when they should be at 8.0.

[@DanySdowo]

Yeahhh ahahahahahah. Another fucking 6.7 tank with 173mm of pen against stabilized cannons and heatfs. Another american tank "OP" even if its not capable to pen a tiger 2H in the front, with less penetration but "OmG PlS NeRf!!!"

[@MadManchou]

Impact angle doesn't match with constructional slope because you're looking down at the UFP. The impact angle displayed corresponds to a straight line between where your camera is supposed to be and the plate. If you align your camera with the gun, you're looking down on the UFP and thus have a lower angle, but a higher angle on the LFP. If you align your camera with the UFP/LFP junction, you will get the proper angle. It's just easier on GJ's end than to constantly simulate a shell's trajectory from X distance.

[@Mathosalpha]

The armor basis of the T26E5 is 11inch, not 8inch like you said in the video. In fact if you use the 1943 armor basis curve document, at 46deg the ufp being 152.4mm comes out correctly for the 11in basis. Which is why the bulge report happened. The Pershing itself has a basis for 6.9in frontally, historically, and armor model wise.

[@themedic7933]

I want to see a heavy tanks only game mode, I think it could lead to some fun chaos

[@Micha0410]

i was looking forward to this tank but when i unlocked it it was just sad its nothing more than a M26 the way it feels but good to know how many failures are in this tank thx for this video!

[@Cris-xy2gi]

The only way to help vehicles like this out is to do a massive balancing/matchmaking rework... the main issue is that once you hit that 7.3-7.7 bracket, the primary shell on tanks shifts from APHE/Solid AP to HEATFS and/or APDS, and the penetration performance increase on the latter two is a dramatic increase over the former. Generally speaking, you go from APHE/AP shells with roughly 180-230mm of pen to HEATFS/APDS shells with 300-400mm of pen in a matter of just two or three BR's... and this is ignoring the other qualities that APDS and HEATFS have that are superior to AP/APHE, like high velocity, lower bounce chance, less penetration reduction on angles, etc. That's way too big of a firepower increase with such a small BR jump. It makes that 6.3-6.7 bracket a terrible BR. You get absolutely shredded by 7.3's and 7.7's, but then you completely dominate 5.3's and 5.7's... neither of which should be happening.

[@noahsawesomevids422]

I’ll try it once I get it no kidding since I’m doing protection analysis the Maus can’t pen the front top

[@sharkk127]

So when I get my new laptop on Tuesday I guess I'll get this thing and see how good it is

[@itsashovel9666]

The best thing about this guy is that he uses subnautica music in his videos. pls keep using subnautica music i love the game and the music is an absolute banger.

[@robertjohnston7237]

It’s fine where it is, I get a lot of 7.0 - 7.3 matches in rb

[@a.b.3455]

I found it to be pretty average as well.

[@makfrags14]

I mean they could make it thicker...so my guess is the only counter against it would be barrel and track torture... Or you can go for the machine gun port but most of the time it'll be angled so you'll probably get a Non Pen

[@IxBl4ckH4rtxI]

he really likes his sentence enhancers

[@smokeyy9932]

I shot one in the side today and it did nothing with the panther at point blank. I went completely bananas. Even the front plate down a hill at point blank.

[@24YOA]

Sounds like the Tiger II when that thing fights 5.3s

[@Scrogan]

Be nice if there was a different game mode that better made use of high armour tanks. Asymmetric game modes especially. To some extent you can balance them by having armour-based BR but gun-based spawn point cost, or some combination of the two, but it’s still not good.

[@GearReview23]

This thing is seal clubbing. Pretty OP at the moment.

[@panzerkampfwagenvdauphine6489]

HSTV-L: part 2, heavy boogaloo

[@blobfish7159]

Just got this, and at 6.7 now the uptiers are murderous. There is very little you can do to most tanks in that BR bracket

[@Sturmgechu]

@spookston, do you have any idea to why the M26E1 is at 6.7 while every other Pershing including the super Pershing is literally 6.3? It’s literally the super Pershing without the armor. I’m not really complaining because I love the challenges but it’s kinda weird

[@tinchorb1340]

3:14 Was that fire coming out of the leopard cannon? Its a new fire effect or its just that he fired at the exact same moment?

[@rexxmen]

New effect. They just added it

[@tinchorb1340]

@@ofekk213 oh Thats a nice detail

[@PineCone227_]

It's a new effect

[@OumuamuaOumuamua]

I think it’s nice having a tank being able to bounce a tiger II shot but I think it should be 6.7

[@brunobegic3841]

The easiest way to kill it is to shoot the barrel since it's not a very hard shot because of the huge muzzle brake. Lower glaces can also work, since hitting the turret weak spots can be tricky. That's from my own experience of playing it a whole lot. I have the best stats in this thing, mostly because I play it slowly and carefully because you can't really be aggressive with it because it's crazy underpowered. It has the same power as the Bulldog while weighing twice as much.

[@TwoStageTrigger]

I still think the t25 needs to go to 5.7 to be alongside the m36. Since without the stabilizer its just a slower m36 with slightly better armor.

[@cheesuschrist5017]

The M36 is 5.3 now, FYI. T25 does need to go down though, it has no place at 6.3 with worse armor than the Panther D at 5.3 and no stabilizer.

[@ronaldmcreagann6343]

What about 6.0? It would make a lineup for the M41.

[@getdunced631]

@@ronaldmcreagann6343 It would still be painfully average, if people wanted they could just bring it up to 6.0. Being at 6.0 puts it above all but the least driven Panther in the game. Not to mention it's awful acceleration, it reeks of being more of an alternative to the M36 than a .7 upgrade from it.

[@FreezeMaster5]

People are saying that this tank should be in a 7.3 or 7.7 which I think is crap considering if it is moved to 6.7 most of the time it has full to .7 uptiers which basically puts it at 7.3 to 7.7 with Leo’s and stuff so I think that 6.7 should be a good balance for it.

[@17CallmeLucky]

Shout out to the guy in 3:29, i absolutely agree with ya pal

[@m808bscorpionmbt3]

Despite the fact that I'm trying to get to 7.7 I took some time off to research it because I just looked at it's stats and thought Hmmmmmm fun.

[@matyasselmek3673]

can you make a video about 90mm M3 guns US has and its T33 shot? In reality it was able to pen Panther front plate at 1000 meters and even Tiger II front plate from about 200m and from game perspective it would be nice if us got something that can reliably counter Panthers from long range.

[@seanmarshall5463]

I always thought the solution was simple to rework the BR system and try to remedy some of this nonsense. Add a .5 BR to decompress things a bit, this means you still have the same amount of potential BR positions but a narrower overall BR bracket when searching for a game. (EG if you’re 5.7 the lowest you could see is 5.0 which is 3 BR steps. 5.5, 5.3, and 5.0. And same thing for up tiers, with the max you could see being 6.5, again with 3 BR steps. 6.0, 6.3, and 6.5. This means your total BR spread is from 5.0-6.5 for 5.7 instead of 4.7-6.7. Less down tier stomping, and less uptier induced pain)

[@alexandermihaylov3555]

Hey Spook can you make a video about the Horton Ho in War Thunder? Should it be in the game? Shouldn't it be a super long-range bomber like originally intended? I would love to know more!

[@cliffsniper4537]

Why am I not surprised

[@andrewperkovich8184]

honestly the only armor fix its still needing a year later is the front of the turret ring which is still 110mm and it should be 190mm. i have a 3.3 KD in this tank when it fights between 5.7 and 7.0 the M3 90mm is manageable just bring in a lot of APCR to kill ferdinands, tiger 2h's, and jadgtigers. At 7.3 it really starts stuggling because not only is the gun obsolete at this point, but because the leo 1 and t54 were moved down to 7.3 it gets beaten up pretty badly. that why i thought 6.3 wass fine and to be honest at 6.3 it was a good balance against the tiger 2p imo, i had some crazy close quarter duels and sniping fights, now that its 6.7 (should hasve been capped at 6.3) fighting 7.7's is basically impossible. you basically go from being a heavy pusher to a support vehicle hidding the entire time and waiting to side shot other heavies and early mbt's.

[@waffleman2370]

The E5 was my first 6.7 I have no idea what I'm doing, besides crying.

[@quartzlandaker5664]

It looks like a good tank to come before the super Pershing and after the 76 jumbo at 6.0 it would be about as good as a king tiger FOR THAT BR

[@maxwellmaragia2272]

I have died from trapshot in this thing soooo easily. Just shoot under the mantlet and wait for the turret to fly off

[@PikaPilot]

Maybe the best way to balance assault tanks like the jumbo, IS-7, and the maus is to decompress the BRs of 7.0+? BR 1.0-7.0 spans designs from 1930-1950, so maybe if tanks like the Leopard 1 at 7.3 and put into service in 1965 were 1 whole extra BR away, these assault tanks would have room to bounce most shells and get penned by large caliber guns and early APDS without becoming useless completely from postwar HEAT? Many 1950s tanks would have to have their later HEAT ammo taken away

[@evanross5140]

It bounced a IS 2 1944 shot to side at point blank

[@skl-1371]

Not first time not last time & there is going to be as many of such cases going on forever, & to funnily commemorate what Gaijin is doing all along their gave the ability to player to simulate what they are doing with the game (digging).

[@goat1176]

6.3 is not really a viable line up the the US tech tree anyway, even if there is one OP tank. The repair cost are way to high to make any SL, especially if you are using the Super Pershing. I think that the T26E5 will have its repair cost raised to the point where it is no longer a viable tank to use in battles if you want to continue to progress through the tech tree.

[@jintsuubest9331]

My guess is it would go to around 15k.

[@Turk3YbAstEr]

It used to be nice with the T26E1, M26, M41, and T25; plus the F8F-1B and P-51H-5 for air support/superiority, but the T26 went up and the T25 lost its stabilizer. 6.7 seems to be better for america now since you get all those weird light vehicles plus some heavies, but it lacks good medium options in the tech tree (M26E1 seems pretty solid).

[@programmedgamer7101]

@@Turk3YbAstEr Losing the effective t26e1 at 6.3 made me delete my lineup for that br. Either go lower or jump up to 6.7 for a whole bunch of effective vehicles.

[@goat1176]

@@Turk3YbAstEr I agree 6.3 used to be nice but nowadays 6.7 is better in almost every way. It might not have any medium tanks but medium tanks are not very useful if there repair cost is so high that they are not cost effective to play as in a game.

[@dela_v8227]

6.3 is NOT viable? IMO it is, and it's my favorite Super Hellcat, M26, T26E5, Sad Jumbo, T25, T28, and alot more for cas, so I'd say it's great, yes it struggles in uptiers but in downtiers? Claps claps

[@DigitalRiot28]

(Me before the video) "Alright lets see if he mentions the HTVL in anyway" (Me after the video) "Oh he actually didn't"

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

I know enough about Gaijin's history with Pershing bug reports to be sure the armor won't be fixed.

[@merlin_1819]

It might be the only way to balance it is by leaving some or those incorrect parts

[@jaylenmacon9761]

Hey spookston don’t know if you believe in the economy nerf but it does seem like it is true i would like to hear your opinion on this because it’s does seem like I am losing rp and sl by half since the update even when I am first place with 2 caps and 5 kills I am only getting 25 k sl which is fine but my rp is always capped out at 5,000 maybe 6000 sometimes. I am also playing with Premium member ship and Vehicle

[@mr.dakkadakka2845]

I saw a video from the tank museum and they walked past an m46 and I looked at it in war thunder and I thought that the angle of the plate irl was slopped way more than it is in game. Is that true for the m46/m26 or am I just crazy?

[@cryptotommy1008]

Centurion AVRE should go on sale this time. Or they should add dozer blades to more vehicles.

[@fives9515]

Apparently I can pen the front plate of the turret with a tiger 2 but not the front plate of the tank

[@FoxtrotGolfLima]

I think this thing, properly modeled, should be 6.7 or 7.0. It seems to be a match for the TIG II H on paper and a direct predecessor to the 7.3 T32. A hard counter to the “Jumbo Pershing” would be tank destroyers like the SU-100P, Jtiger, Jpz 4-5, Charioteer, Ho-Ri Production, and literally anything Swedish. This tank counters heavy tanks with weak guns like the IS-1, Tiger I, or Churchills, heavy tanks with huge weakspots, and light cars that need time to secure kills like the Eland/AML-90. I guess the deciding factor would be how high the roof 50 cal can be aimed, as this would spell its ability to protect itself and allies from being bombed

[@ThePepsicola1995]

it would be terrible at 6.7 or 7.0 unless it gets HEAT. What are you going to do that those BRs with 175 mm of pen?

[@georgehuser4711]

Already have this thing maxed out. Yeah it ain't bad

[@GreenStuffConsumer]

Irs an American tank. At this br American ground players are used to combustion when hit by a stiff breeze.