The Talbot Horizon was Chrysler Europe's Last Stand

[@jayshields1234]

This exact horizon is my old car. I saved it from being crushed (it was set to be weighed in that day), i put it back on the road in 2019 and located all of the original handbooks and history for it. Sold it to adam just after that. Great to see it getting some attention lol

[@iainmacleod4007]

It has a Carlisle plate. Remember these in the border areas in the early 80’s. They were quite good cars for the money.

[@thetwistedsock3253]

Excellent, well done 👍

[@curtisducati]

That's very cool to read , my friend brought one in 1999 , only cost £200 with 3 months tax and Mot ! He had it bloody years , never missed a beat !

[@paulschneider9286]

Dude, you’re a genuine hero! She’s beautiful. I always loved these in my early childhood (I was born 1978) and that car had such nice lines and proportions. Loved every bit of it.

[@dj_paultuk7052]

Or, as it was called back in the day, the Talbot Tapper. As the engine sounds like a bag of spanners being thrown down the stairs.

[@Expatriate1977]

Hilarious man! My dad had one and yeah it was noisy and really slow too. So imagine idle being wrenches falling down stairs in slow motion. It had poor quality and water pumps would fail once every month or two. My dad loved it but I hated it. Slow and boring

[@video99couk]

I think they had that sorted on the later ones.

[@johnmg88]

​@@video99couk only at lower revs, I had a later one with 60000 miles in it and it still rattled like hell on the motorway 😂

[@johnalmason]

An Interesting video. Thanks for posting. My first car was a B-reg Talbot Horizon 1.3 LS Ultra (the Ultra was a special edition intended to shift unsold LS models which had already been built). For anyone interested, here's my two pennies worth of observations, memories and experiences of my time owning a Horizon: PROS: - Large windows for the front and rear doors meant good all-round visibility; - Roomy cabin, with some of the best leg room in the back seats in this car's class (my older brother who is 6' 3" could sit in the back of it in comfort); - The boot space in these was epic for this class of car. To be honest, I think it's something you ought to have shown in the video. I could fit all the luggage and Scuba diving gear I needed for an entire week into the boot of it, and still have room to spare; - The 5-speed gearbox was a feature at the time these cars were built. Cars with 4-speed boxes were kicking around for ages after 5-speed boxes were introduced. Even in relatively affluent parts of England; - They were cheap to buy, cheap to run, cheap to insure and cheap to repair. In many ways this made them an ideal first car, as they were uncomplicated and there wasn't much to go wrong on them; - Reliability was generally very good on my Horizon. From memory, it never broke down on me once. I can't remember ever being left standing at the side of the road. In fact, I once drove my Horizon all the way to Scotland, all the way through Scotland and up to the Ferry Terminal at Scrabster to go over to the Orkney Islands. Fond memories. I can still remember parking it Loch Lomond and walking down to the water's edge, with the car watching me as I went. And then driving it all the way back home again. During that whole journey the only problem the car developed was a loose centre nut on the front offside wheel (which a local mechanic on the Orkney Islands tightened for nothing!); - Memories of trips taken, my first serious girlfriend, near-misses, fun days and crazy nights, the freedom of having your own car, etc. None of which are relevant to the car itself. CONS: - First, the big one. The Horizon had no rear axle, and no power steering either. This made them INCREDIBLY hard to steer when stationary or at low speeds. I was young and strong back then, and even I found it hard to steer it. A stationary three-point turn took literally all the arm strength I had to complete it. I took my driving test in the Horizon, and was bloody relieved to say the least when the examiner chose not to make me do a three-point turn. I'm genuinely amazed that the video doesn't mention this - it was a major flaw with these cars; - Performance. The car just wasn't that quick. Not slow either - when you got it up to speed on motorways and dual carriageways it moved with the traffic well enough. It just didn't pull up any trees, and wasn't designed to; - Rust. An issue for so many cars of this era, it seems almost unfair to mention it. But as the mechanic who MOT'd my Horizon said back at the time 'Talbots are alright, you've just got to watch them for rust'. That said, mine never suffered unduly from it. Owning cars in the 70s and 80s (and indeed well into the 90s), rust came with the territory. They were cheaply built, and that was that; - The finishing trims beneath the headlights (the GLS model in the video also has them) were brittle and only fixed at the one end. This meant that they broke very easily if you didn't remove them before changing a headlight, and on a cold day a bad look would snap them; - The 1.3 LS Ultra model didn't have the plush headrests that the GLS model shown in this video has. They had hard-as-nails, square vinyl head rests which were hollow in the middle. Unforgiving doesn't begin to describe how firm these things were; - The dashboard and indeed the whole front console felt cheap and plasticky. The glove box lid was Christmas Cracker toy quality plastic, as were the ash tray and other dash/console fittings. It just screamed cheap and nasty - but again so did a lot of the mass produced cars of the time. So you have to place this in context with what you would have found in other budget hatchbacks back then; - The front driver's side and passenger side door locks were metal and protruded from the side of the door. So they froze up easily in the Winter and you had to squirt de-icer into them to get them to work (not sure about the GLS model, but the LS model didn't have central locking, so if all else failed you just hoped the passenger side door lock worked, and then did the handbrake lever assault course to get into the driver's seat); - A pet hate of mine: on the LS model the door card stopped short of the top of the door, and had no door caps. Which meant you had a metal strip there, which was basically just the top of the door shell. It made the interior feel cheaper than it already was, and on a damp morning was always wet with condensation. On those occasions when you slept overnight in the car (!) waking up in the morning in them was pretty grim. But my cousin had a low-spec Ford Escort Mk III 1.3L back then, and this had the same thing. You only got door caps when you went to GL, Ghia or XR3 on the Mk III Ford Escort; - On the lower spec models like the LS, the only plastic part of the bumper was the wrap-around corner piece. The main bumper spars were metal. The black finish used on the metal bumper spars was cheap, and with the plastic wrap-arounds this meant that where the plastic and metal joined together, you got rust. It wasn't a big deal really - just unsightly. So there you have it. From a former Talbot Horizon owner. They were what they were.

[@localreviewking134]

If you had your time again, then the Talbot Horizon GLS version, with that extra bit of oomph would have given you the missing bit of fun?

[@johnalmason]

@localreviewking134 oh absolutely. But this was my first car and of course as a teenage motorist budget was everything. Also, whilst overall performance would have been better on the GLS, the absence of a rear axle would still have been an issue in terms of ride, handling etc. No real regrets to owning it though. I mean, it wasn't my ideal choice for a first car - but at that age who got to choose?

[@philipgallagher3234]

I worked for Peugeot/Talbot Car Rentals in 83/4 and the Horizon was the basis of the fleet. Reliable? Yes. Cheap to run? Yes. But disappointed contract hirers (eg Rank Xerox staff) when we turned up with one. But, Tupperware (who at the time had a large fleet) threw out their Escorts and changed to Horizons based on fuel efficiency... so some recognition. Oh, and I borrowed one (an Ultra with that sunroof you missed) for a holiday in France that culminated in a drive from the French Riviera to Le Mans for the 24 hr race. It sped along the A Roads of France brilliantly and comfortably .... did it in around 12 hrs with stops.

[@365tips]

Horizon was also manufactured in Uusikaupunki, Finland. We had petrol, diesel and kerosene -engines. Kerosene -engines are nowdays hard to find and kerosene fuel almost impossible to use in automobiles these days. Horizon was assembled from 1979-1985 with 17931 cars built. Finnish Horizons had larger bumpers, later models had better seats and rust proofing was a lot better than original versions. Headlight wipers was standard in Finland. Some other details were also different than French or Spanish versions. In summer time once in a while you still see Horizons driving around here and there, engine sound is unique and Horizon will always be one important model in Finnish car industry 🙂

[@GlamStacheessnostalgialounge]

I remember the time I saw a Horizon on the road the other day and I couldn't believe my eyes, I've never seen one before. I was more excited for that ragged old Talbot than I would be for a new Ferrari. I do own a 309, it's spiritual successor, AND an early 306, and I gotta say the 309 is so much better.

[@video99couk]

Learned to drive in a Y reg then A reg Horizon. Actually we loved them, they were easy to drive and good motorway cars too. Now I drive its predecessor, a 1972 Hillman Avenger, a sensible family car with sports car handling and still a hoot to drive.

[@raymondpauze8801]

I've owned MANY Chrysler vehicles, and many of them were the Dodge Omni GLH turbo that gave many Mustang GT 5.0 and Camaro IROC car a very good fight.

[@andrewbarten7347]

I think the styling has aged well. Way better than many other monstrosities from the era.

[@Pat_RickX]

Fine Video ! Living here in Southern Germany just 50 km to French border, the Horizon was quite popular here. I remember some limited editions - the " Profi" in black with golden decals and golden wheels or the silver" Profi 2 " with spoilers and blue/red decals.

[@williamrae9954]

Came across a Talbot Rancho Matra recently in the French mountains... I still want one!

[@paulware4701]

I learned to drive in a Horizon. The gear change was like a stick in a bucket (the gear lever was about 18" long and attached to the gearbox by a linkage system). Your options were often "odd numbered gear" or "even numbered gear". My instructor always said that if I could pass my test in a Horizon, I could drive anything. Post Script: A few years later, the garage where I worked had a Horizon 1.9 diesel that we used as a company runabout. I regularly took it on the old back roads between Brighouse and Barnsley (before they were all given 50mph speed limits) and I set myself the task of trying to get all four wheels off the ground at the same time; I think I managed three at one point, doing about 90 over a twisty stretch with some handy hill crests to use as take off ramps. Happy days. (I was probably about the same age then that you are now.)

[@michaelparks3106]

Huh, when I saw this I thought "that looks just like the Plymouth Horizon that was sold in America. A little Wikipedia research informed me that the American Omni/Horizon models were Americanized versions of the Talbot Horizon. I had always thought it was an American original design, I guess you learn something new every day.

[@vwestlife]

The Plymouth Horizon also won Motor Trend's 1978 Car of the Year award in the U.S. And initially, its similarity to the Golf/Rabbit was more than just visual -- it was powered by a VW engine block and had VW-made manual gearbox, although Chrysler designed the engine head and assembled it. This was later replaced by a Simca/Peugeot engine (yes, they went from an OHC engine to OHV!) and Chrysler's own OHC engines shared with the K-Cars. The Horizon/Omni continued all the way to 1990 in the U.S., sold at a bargain price to compete with imports like Hyundai and Yugo. In its final year, it even gained a driver's airbag.

[@andyrobertshaw9120]

What size were the engines in the early Plymouth cars?

[@vwestlife]

@@andyrobertshaw9120 The VW engine in the Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni was 1.7L. And while Ford was proud of the Escort being a "world car" (even though the U.S. and European versions were drastically different), Chrysler emphasized that the Horizon/Omni was "an American car" and "the world-beater": kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZSXdYmBf9CSg7M

[@brownstar69]

@@andyrobertshaw9120 2.2

[@nlpnt]

@@andyrobertshaw9120 One was 1.6 and the other 1.7, can't remember which was which. IIRC the backwards step to the PSA OHV was made after or just as the Chrysler OHC 2.2 was added to the options list. Theoretically you could get it as late as 1986 but the take rate for the 2.2 was very high, and the only way to get one with a 5th gear, an automatic or power steering was to upgrade to the 2.2 first. For 1987 the car was reworked to become the Omni/Horizon "America" with the most popular options made standard and the rest dropped, at a lower price. Think Ford Popular but not so grimly stripped. (all had nice cloth upholstery, AM-FM stereo and things like rear defroster and wash/wipe, and dual mirrors) Those are all 2.2 {and single-point EFI from '88). If you wanted to go as quick in something with a Japanese badge you'd have to pay almost twice as much, the Hondas and Toyotas at the same price were vinyl-trimmed strippers with 1.5 carb engines.

[@Channel-cm7yc]

Yes and it received fuel injection in 1988. I never saw any 1.6L cars after 1981 in my market. I know it says the 1.6L was around until 1987. That was an interesting fact I wasn’t sure about. They weren’t bad, they were cheap transportation and hey if that’s what you could afford or wanted thats the way it is.

[@maxmaxijazz]

I remember my father hiring this model on a few occasions when our old car was off the road, we liked it so much that asked to have the Chrysler each time. To us it seemed so modern, spacious and comfortable compared to what we were used to at the time, it felt like such a treat to travel in it!

[@CossieChris]

Many years ago my mother had a metallic blue Horizon 1.5 SX - EKY 819V. We called it EKY. It was an automatic which sadly decided its fate when the gearbox died. It originally had a Chrysler badge on the radiator grille and after a minor bump was replaced with a Talbot one that never looked right after years of seeing the 5 point star. The steering wheel had no badge at all, and the blue velour seats were delightfully comfy. It had keep-fit windows all round, but had the trip computer which as children we enjoyed playing with, and no rev counter, digital or otherwise! I still love seeing them, I enjoy the boxy shape and always loved the rear end, so seeing this is a happy moment.

[@andrewstones2921]

I liked those Chrysler/Talbots back in the day, they were cheap and reliable daily drivers. They were known as "ticky talbots" because of that ticking noise which was not present on a brand new car but was evident after a few thousand miles. To me the Horizon was just just a smaller Alpine, and those flared arches were cool back in the day.. or at least I thought so. I owned 3 Alpines, a Solara and a Samba over the years but I never owned a Horizon, though I did drive one from time to time. If back in the early 80's you were looking for a cheap modern second hand car you couldn't go far wrong with a Chrysler/Talbot as they were very cheap and also very easy to maintain.

[@jacobzimmermann59]

When I was a little boy in the early 1980s in France, these were a common sight. In fact our neighbors had one (it must have been an early one because I remember it had a Simca logo at the back and even a Chrysler logo on the bonnet). For some reason I liked it and thought it was a cool car, even though there were Alpha Romeos Giuliettas and Alfasuds in the same street! Beauty in the eye of the beholder I guess...

[@Matt-ne6de]

I enjoyed learning about Talbot. I have a couple of Peugeot 505 Turbos which have a 2.2 SOHC Talbot engine. I'm rebuilding the engine right now, I took the crank to be balanced last week it has the Talbot emblem on the crank and on the main caps. I also notice that I have the same oil filler cap as this little 1.5. I remember hearing that Peugeot turbocharged the talbot engine rather than the alloy renault engine that the 505 normally came with was that the Talbot Tagora wasn't selling so they had plenty of engines to spare, and they didn't want renault to copy their turbocharging engineering work.

[@CRCO1975]

As an American, this was very interesting to me. My first car was a 1989 Plymouth Horizon, so seeing the UK version was fun for me. It is interesting how similar they appear to be even though the engines and other bits are quite different. I was amused with your comment about the location of the climate controls - the American version was exactly the same way (just reversed for our left hand drive), though they used the traditional Chrysler push button controls. These cars (the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon) were very popular here, though the Plymouth more so. Thanks for this!

[@ShamirDasgupta]

I remember a version “GLH” as Goes Like Hell with 2.2 liter engine. That was a rocket!

[@eatonjask]

The North American Horizon head an utterly different suspension, among other changes - McPherson struts up front and trailing arms with a beam axle at the back, just like the VW Golf/Rabbit.

[@gothicpagan.666]

​@@ShamirDasguptaNot to be mistaken with the simular looking but RWD using a 907 Lotus power unit.

[@philtucker1224]

Yes you’re right. I remember them well and there really wasn’t one think about them that was special. Subsequently after only a few years it was easy to pick up a low mileage example for next to nothing. My father in law had one and despite being super reliable it just lacked, well, everything really!😊 Another great episode though, so keep them coming young man!👍

[@philnewstead5388]

Exactly right like the Maestro it wasn't a particularly bad car but neither was it a particularly good ont both cars were spectacularly average and failed to inspire and the Alpine was the same.

[@noelmintern8969]

I had the Dodge Omni and later the Plymouth Horizon.The Omni came with a carbureted 1.7 liter engine,and the Horizon had a 2.2 liter engine.Both cars were incredibly good on snow covered roads,they were like little tractors and would handle snow better than larger vehicles.The engine and transmission in both models were very durable and I put in excess of two hundred thousand miles on each car. While small they were both comfortable and did some long trips across America and Canada.Today these cars are forgotten and only a few people have them as project cars.Here in America there was a 2.2 turbo version called the GLH,commonly said as "Goes like Hell".From memory it put out 180 horsepower and with its tuned suspension proved a cheap pocket rocket that on the road surprised quite few expensive high end sports cars.Good memories watching this video.

[@David_H-73]

Thankyou Edd, great to see a Horizon on KZbin. I have had the pleasure of sitting in this example and the seats and tachometer are wonderful. The Talbot Express van was sold up to 95 M reg and there are still many motorhome conversions driving around the UK.

[@byronmills5952]

The Horizon and the larger Alpines were very good cars that suffered from lack of continual development due to its troubled industrial parantage. Had Peugeot bothered to update the cars running gear after it took the company over in 1979 the car would have enjoyed a happier life as the Horizon entered the 80s - all it received was the Be1 gearbox and Xud diesel in 1982. I disagree with you on the cars exterior styling - I always thought the Horizon was a very clean looking design - it was the cheap skate dashboard and interior detailing which let the side down totally - as did the rattly valve gear as the cars gained miles even though in reality the engine was a very tough long lived reliable and economical unit.

[@gunnarkvinlaug9079]

Most likly because PSA already had two cars in that size, and in 1982 the Peugeot 205 took the world by storm!

[@pcno2832]

I agree on the styling. Although it's hard to make a boxy hatchback look good, I always thought the Horizon looked a lot better than the Rabbit/Golf, which looked too much as if it had been fabricated in a vocational-school metal-shop . The rectangular headlights and rounded corners did a lot to make the Horizon a more coherent, smoother package.

[@retrocompaq5212]

guys the horizon is a rebadged vw mk1 lol

[@suzyqualcast6269]

Eh, fella, I married (a witch), in 89. Bought my first motor, a 1200 Horizon. This, to provide family transport, and her, who had a licence, tport to work n back and occasionally for us all. Each n every year she, the car, would rust/rot and each n every I would attend to resolving the mess. Reseated her, did all I possibly could, new bonnet, wings, brakes n discs. . She took our little family camping to Royan, 89, then, again in 93 to Argeles, on the Med. Sorted !! 😉 My first little car, and twas noticeable soon as we landed, en F, literally took off on those magically smooth French roads and each time took us all there and back without a problem, twas as if she knew she was home, and I loved her. The witch pissed me off a year later and I've no idea what happened to my Horizon, but she served us PROUD , thankyou.

[@danielreigada1542]

Interesting video. I've owned 2 of the American version you mention, the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon. Ours got an OHC 2.2 liter 4 cylinder which was a smooth running and peppy engine. Cosmetically, they are very similar to the British version with a few differences. It is very rare to see one on the road today.

[@goclunker]

None of the body parts are interchangeable. Crazy right?

[@danielreigada1542]

@@goclunker with a hammer and a drill and some persuasion, anything is interchangeable

[@goclunker]

@@danielreigada1542 they are actually different sizes only based on visual similarities, reason being that the Omni / Horizon are L-body platforms

[@garygriffiths2911]

I'm old enough to remember these being a commonplace sight on British roads - but thanks to this (yet another excellent) review I now know a lot more about them. Groovy upholstery on this one by the way.

[@seed_drill7135]

Americans being Americans, the preeminent variant of the Horizon was the Carol Shelby modified '86 and '87 GLHS (goes like hell s'more) with a 175 h.p. turbo and 6.5 second 0-60 time.

[@ruppert5134]

This Horizon is actually a beautiful car. Nice styling for that time even exceptional. It could still be seen as quite modern till maybe 2005

[@mustsilm]

Not next to the original Focus

[@danmccarthy4700]

This looks so close to the Omni/Horizon we got in the US. It's hard for me to believe the body panels weren't interchangeable between European and US cars.

[@thestonegateroadrunner7305]

I had a Chrysler Sunbeam from 1979 to 1984 and a Horizon with the fabulous Diesel from 1984 onwards, both mainly because there was a Chrysler dealer down the road. At the time the Horizon to contemporary buyers looked a lot more modern than the Sunbeam. The Sunbeam looked like what it was: a chopped underpowered Avenger, with rear wheel drive, an unproportioned silhouette and old fashioned design features like a way too high belt line. The Horizon, however, suffered from low focus on details, such as the 2 cm gap between the bumper and grill. I really liked my Horizon but at the time the Golf was by far the better deal.

[@stephenjcuk7562]

I can see many modern touches in the styling, considered boring in the 70's but mainstream until recently and what about electric windows in 1982.

[@oliverstemp9132]

Great video about how Chrysler worked in the 1970s. Very good enthusiasm for the car too

[@badbooks476]

Great review, Thankyou. I think I saw this car at festival of the unexceptional last year, remarkable condition. I remember these everywhere from the 70’s to the 90’s, a neighbour had a pale yellow one, later replaced by a 205

[@andrewnorth4857]

This is a great video and a really appreciate your work. I watched this because, in 1985, my mother traded a perfectly serviceable 1979 Cavalier for a custard yellow 1983 Talbot Horizon 1.3LS, her justification being something vaguely related to fuel economy. I still have memories of being wedged against my three older siblings in the back of that car all the way to Cornwall and back - a round trip of 800 miles - and, on another occasion, throwing up on a grass verge after barely surviving a protracted hell-ride around the winding roads of the Lake District. The upside of the Horizon, back in the day, is that hearing those distinctly tappity tappets pulling up on the driveway served as a clear warning that Mum's home so stop what you're up to and hide stuff.

[@LordWilsonVILLA]

It came from the Simca 1100. I had the Simca 1100 estate and it was one of the best cars I've ever owned!

[@TheAllMightyGodofCod]

oh! so that was the inspiration for the first gen C4's digital rev counter on top of the steering column! fun fact, the name Talbot was so unrecognised that people in Portugal used to call it as if it was a french word, with the silent T at the end and not with the T sound as it would be if it was an English or even Portuguese word. maybe it had done better if it was sold as a Simca, which had far better brand recognition.

[@fosterfuchs]

I was born and raised in Germany. Over time, my dad purchased a Simca, Talbot, and Peugeot from the same family-owned car dealership. I was too young to understand (or even care) why the branding changed. When I came to the United States in 1986, I learned about the Chrysler bankruptcy and sale of their European business. This was a lightbulb moment for me, and I knew why the branding of the cars had changed.

[@mattbrown4857]

I changed the 1.3 to a 1.6 from an alpine into one of these. Had to use a completely different air filter because the bonnet wouldn't shut. Very comfortable. Rubbish road holding even with the wider alloy wheels fitted. It was a constant battle stopping it from rusting. bottom ball joint snapped twice. Had no choice to scrap it.

[@mikeclifton7778]

We had a 1980 1.3 GL with the tappetty engine, as everyone else says it was adequate but not exceptional. My mate had an '83 diesel which was biblically noisy but never let him down. Unfortunately ours went from solid car to crunchy box of rust in 12 months, to the extent that removing the rear seat belts I had installed pulled huge chunks of rotten steel away with the bolts!

[@rolandgrant8669]

Shame you didn't drive it or start it so we could hear it.. My father had Alpines and whilst they looked lovely, and being top of the range ones had the trip computer and alloys, they were noisy.. All supplied by 'Walchry' in Walton on Thames.. I remember travelling in friend's Cortina's and Capris at the time, and whilst with inferior chasis, and ancient origins, they were smooth and had good refinement. Shame really. I was in Golfs at the time and compared to the Talbots the gear change, light steering, handling and revy engines were a big step ahead. Likewise the contempoary VW Passat with the 5 cylinder engine again was lovely to drive. Memories of 80's cars from someone that was there..!

[@PatricioGarcia1973]

I would love to swap those headlights, grill and rear hatch into my Omni. Make It look more modern. If only the Talbot would have gotten the 2.2 liter it got in the states, or the one from the GLH / GLHS it could have turned into a worthy competitor to the VW GTI

[@retrocompaq5212]

its a derivate of the gti mk1

[@zebedep]

Great review. This takes me back... and it's impressive you managed to find one that hasn't completely rusted away! I remember you could hear the tappety engines coming a mile off on these and other Simca/Chrysler models.

[@raftonpounder6696]

My dad bought an orange GLS in 1980. The engine was so noisy on idle that he told people that it wasn’t too bad for a diesel!

[@sutherlandA1]

The reason for the oversized wheel arches was because of the USA requirement for clearance for snow chains

[@pcno2832]

8:35 I can remember other cars with the HVAC controls on the driver's side of the steering wheel, including most late 1960s and early 1970s Cadillacs. The rational was probably that the driver should have sole control over such things, especially when the defroster was in use. The strange thing about the dashboard of the European Horizon is that it's almost a mirror image of the American version, but the lines and contours of each piece are just a little bit off from their U.S. counterparts, as if the Americans reworked everything but little enough that you might not notice the differences unless you were looking for them. With their Detroit-designed strut suspensions, the Omni and Horizon were pivotal cars for Chrysler in the USA, forming the basis for the K platform which gave them all of the new sedans and minivans Chrysler introduced in the 1980s, including the long-wheelbase 1990 Imperial sedan and the 1984 Chysler Executive Sedan limousine. Despite the resemblance inside and out, the only major parts the American and European versions shared were the Torqueflite automatic transmissions and the Simca pushrod engine, though even that was in 1.6 L form and only used as the base engine between 1983,when the VW 1.7 L engines became too expensive and 1987 when the Chrysler OHC 2.2 became standard.

[@dr.t.]

Mr Top Gear, proper information and history 😎😎

[@stevepowell3832]

my first car, one owner from new was immaculate. loved it at the time. sent ages taking the interior apart to stop squeaky plastic trim, after that fixed i could hear the tapping engine lol. first holiday was a 300 mile trek to cornwall with 3 adults, 3 kids and 2 weeks of luggage. long before restrictions on how many in a car haha. it performed a treat

[@Brightsparks1960]

Super video, well researched and presented in an interesting manner. I remember going to the car showroom with my father when these were first launched and he purchased one. At the time it did appear very modern with front wheel drive, comfy seats and good space.

[@kevinbarry71]

Love the video. As an American; the dodge Omni and Plymouth horizon were brought to the US shortly after their introduction in Europe. They were the absolute cheapest cars in the Chrysler lineup; and they were about what you might expect. Terrible. I believe the lowest trim level was actually called the miser; talk about adding insult to injury. The next step up in the Chrysler lineup was the dodge Aries and Plymouth reliant; which were also terrible cars but at least they were bigger

[@michaeltutty1540]

The odd thing about the Reliant and Aries is that base prices were low, but the standard equipment on base models was definitely poverty spec. Add the equipment that came standard on a 1981 Volvo 240DL, the entry level Volvo, and the Reliant/Aries carried a higher sticker price and was still missing some items like the heated driver's seat.

[@kevinbarry71]

@@michaeltutty1540 definitely a car for people not good at making decisions

[@emjayay]

The Aries/Reliants came along three years later in 1981. Different platform with the same or similar engine/trans/suspension in front and a cheaper beam axle in back. The original Omni/Horizon came in three trim levels with the top one posh for a subcompact at the time. Quieter and better riding than a VW Rabbit/Golf. Of course they were cheaper than the far larger Chrysler RWD models. The Miser models were for a year or two around 1982, using the VW 1.7 engine instead of the Chrysler 2.2 most then had, manual transmission, no AC, and a tall axle ratio to get 50 mpg highway.

[@2t713]

Big Kevin, they made the Horizon - Omni for 13 years, in 1978 it was car of the year. you don't know much...lol

[@annabellaandrewkingdon7972]

My dad's first brand new car was an "A reg" Talbot Horizon 1.5 top spec (I forget what it was maybe a GLS like this one?) His was metallic red with grey tweed cloth interior and I remember the excitement as we picked it up brand new! It wasn't a bad car to be honest apart from it impressively sounding just like a diesel despite actually being a petrol car!

[@JonathanB6023]

My parents had a bright red one for the first 8 years of my life. Remember well the freezing mornings spent trying to get the engine to stay on, messing about with the choke before stuttering out of the drive, stalling on the first hill and wrapping up for a bone-chilling walk to school. And when it did work, doing long bone-jarring journeys in that tin can.

[@stevehill4615]

My mates girlfriend had a Horizon 1.3, Oh the hours of "fun" we had with the rattling engine the galloping rust and the falling apart (usually at traffic lights as you were trying to get ready for the lights turning to green) gear linkage, but I did like the body styling and spacious interior (even though the trim was a bit cheap).

[@bondbug73]

Great review Ed. Interesting to see the younger generation view points on classics. My cousin had a red Horizon back in the 80's. Kitted it out in CB gear and go faster stripes. He's still into CB radio.

[@ericpottersadventuresinsou1146]

i had the ultimate version of this car in the US, the 180hp Omni GLHS, production-modified by Carrol Shelby in 1986. i think he made 500 of them. my lap times at Willow Springs Int'l Raceway were faster than some Ferraris and Porsches. and while i'm a semi-professional driver, i'm not an experienced track racer. i just get to make laps when we hire the track sometimes. i bought the car cuz Bank of Boston was willing to finance it for me at age 22. i had gone to the Chrysler/Dodge dealer to look at a used Omni or Horizon, but they had the rare Shelby in the showroom... i actually stripped off most of the Shelby lettering, as to make it look like a mild custom 4 cyl.Horizon. Endless fun and surprises with that car!

[@2t713]

I thought all 500 examples of the Shelby Omni were sold before they hit the dealer? It was rated a 175hp btw.

[@ericpottersadventuresinsou1146]

could be. in my case, the dealer Silver Lake Dodge bought it as a showpiece and even put some miles on it. then they marked it up a bit over sticker! i think i paid $12,400. it was totally worth it!

[@grahamariss2111]

The horizon took its oily bits from the Alpine which uses an 1100 front end and trailing arm rear instead of the 1100 torsion arm rear. The car was actually three way project with the USA, the plan was to adopt a new "Golf Like" platform, this was retained in the USA but cost saving led to it using the Alpine underpinnings in Europe relatively late in the project. The odd seating position is the result of the floor having to be raised to accommodate the torsion bar front suspension. The wheel arches was a late addition to allow for snow chains on the USA model.

[@DisjointedR]

My mother had a Chrysler Sunbeam in the late 70s early 80s. From memory it was quite refined, comfortable and powerful, with a 1600cc engine. Reg number NCM 210S. It was brown, of course. When she sold it, she replaced it with a Peugeot 309.

[@TheRealBigDan]

My Dad had 2 Alpines, first one was orange and I remember being excited when he went to change it and the disappointment when he brought home a blue one.

[@sidsidsidsid]

My 1st car was a talbot horizon! Loved it so much. Yes it sounded like a diesel.....very tappy. I removed the bumpers to prime it up in grey for a respray. I loved the look of it so much in primer grey i never sprayed it or put the bumpers back on!

[@frothe42]

Even though Chrysler was in financial distress around 1979-1980, the Horizon and its Dodge twin the Omni were manufactured until 1990. And it overcame what came to be known somewhat dangerous handling emergency. Initially using VW powertrain, until the 2.2 litre 4, which went on to power most of its production vehicles all throughout the 1980's.

[@frothe42]

Funny, as Chrysler was taken over by Fiat which was swallowed by PSA which has become Stellantis

[@grahamepigney8565]

The styling was what was fashionable at the time, look at the Mk1 Astras/ Kadett D, even the Mk1 VW Golf. Clean, rather angular and very contemporary.

[@thetwistedsock3253]

Yes, really unjustified comments regarding the styling.

[@philryan7254]

My first car was a simca 1100 van given to me by my brother once that gave up the ghost I actually bought a simca 1100 special hatchback. Which lasted about half an hour before the crankshaft snapped in half so consequently that went to the dump great video cheers Phil

[@fredbiscuit...413]

A really well-researched, excellently-presented and brilliantly edited video Mr TC. I've followed you from the start and I simply love how much you have learned and how far you have come as a researcher, presenter and editor... :)

[@Martin_in_Cheltenham]

Another great video - thanks. I remember when they came out. The Alpine was Car of the Year! The Alpine was sold as a Simca in France. Not sure I agree with your comments on the styling. I remember they looked pretty crisp and fresh when they came out. Not sure there is a lot of difference between this and the Golf and it was brought out before the Astra that looked similar as well....

[@franzkoviakalak6981]

That tachometer is spectacular.

[@kevinhansford3929]

My fathers had a 1.9 diesel horizon and all i can say is it towed quite well and it drove through floods quite well too

[@Phiyedough]

Yes, I always thought it was a boring looking car and much preferred the styling of the Sunbeam. My dad had a Simca 1100, the only car he bought brand new. It was one of the cheapest cars you could buy in 1974 and I've always thought of Simca as a cheap brand. It did fail in quite a spectacular fashion when a driveshaft came adrift and one front wheel half fell off!

[@lighthouse7839]

My dad and his dad once owned Talbot Horizon branded cars and I finally bought my own Horizon in the summer of 2018. These Talbots are built in my hometown Uusikaupunki and have thicker bumpers, Saab benches and anyway parts borrowed from Saab cars. There is a sign in the engine room that reads Saab-Valmet.

[@alistairvenning7329]

I had one of these years ago,it was so comfortable,loved it,still miss it

[@hutchcraftcp]

Thank you for covering this car. I've owned 3 of the American version. One with a 1.7L VW engine and two with the 1.6L Simca/ Peugeot engine. Did over 150 thousand miles on each of them. Here in the USA, because they were low priced small cars, many Americans will say they are rubbish. (If it's not huge it can't be good / it's a death trap mind set) They were good comfy cars. It's odd that Chrysler switched the torsion bar front suspension for McPherson struts in the USA. Chrysler was the king of torsion bars from the 1950s thru 1980s

[@nlpnt]

FWIU the Mac struts were the superior layout but the torsion bars were a holdover from older Simcas, they didn't help handling any and cost front-seat legroom.

[@markjames8664]

I had an early Plymouth Horizon. It drove pretty well but was plagued by the horrible quality problems of Chrysler in that era. The door latches all broke in various ways, some not opening from inside and some not from outside, and eventually it started overheating and I gave up on it and got a Mercury Lynx-more reliable but horrible acceleration.

[@danielrussell446]

Great review Ed we had a lovely talbot horizon ultra special edition (it was a LS underneath) with the 1300 engine registered A124YJW and in Ming blue metallic we had many several happy miles in that car and was a lovely comfortable car the only issue I remember was the glass expansion bottle exploded when the car overheated so we had to have a new one but aside from that it kept going! To this day I remember the loud ticking clock! It was always solid and loads of space inside Lovely to see that one looks in such lovely condition Remember it was car of the year 1978!

[@kaksikymmenta3]

My first car was Finnish built Talbot Horizon. Kicking the central panel turned on the heater for few minutes. This was suboptimal for Finnish winters...

[@Lot76CARS]

In fairness the styling looked pretty good versus contemporary rivals (except Golf) and to win car of the year is no mean feat. However, they are so rare these days, the one in the video is a total unicorn!

[@jakobholgersson4400]

I'm not sure you're judging this right. The first car my mum had when I grew up was an Opel Kadett of the same vintage as this and the interior seems falt out luxurious when compared to that. The door cards on this Talbot actually cover the whole door, instead of just ending 10cm from the top of the door and there's actually some kind of cladding that covers the A and B-pillars, as opposed to the Opel where you could see where the roof liner just end. But on the other hand, the Opel had a center console that was was actually designed, where in the case of the Talbot, it seems like someone put the switches in a tray before hitting said tray with a baseball bat and just put the switches wherever they land.

[@TwinCam]

All depends on the trim levels. Basic Horizons didn’t have covered door tops, while a hot Kadett did.

[@Ramcharger85]

My mother had a Horizon TC3 sport. So yep, i have soft spot for these littlr guys. ❤

[@fishbert17]

My second car - a 1978 Horizon 1.3. Good car, fond memories.

[@MrJulianbowden]

Excellent video ! I'm 52 now and many years ago my dad came home with one brand new, he named it Pierre, aged 11 and with my two siblings and parents we travelled from South Wales to the south of France in it, twice ! If I remember correctly my dad said it was a 1.5ltr, and rated it as one of the best cars he ever owned, gosh that brought back memories! Ours was bright red and we all thought of pierre as fast and modern for the time .. My dad passed away a few years ago, and recently my son 21 was looking through the photo albums I have, being a bit of a petrol head like me he pointed to one photo and "said what car is this dad", I replied oh that is son is pierre .. Incredibly memory's, what I'd give for another game of "eye spy" in the back of our horizon again with my late parents and siblings hey .

[@robotcantina8957]

I bought one of these while in college, paid $50.00 for it. It had the VW Rabbit (golf) engine and an automatic transmission. The car had a non functional Chrysler electronic ignition system, so I put an early points type VW Golf distributor in it. Drove the car from Michigan to California then scrapped the car. It still ran, but it couldn't be registered in California because most of the emission equipment was missing.

[@volvo480]

The entire Horizon's front suspension, steering rack, switchgear, tail lights (though slightly extended) and an enlarged 1.6 litre version of the engine found its way into the Matra Murena sports car, so it wasn't all bad what Simca had designed back in the 1960s. But it wasn't very refined either and Chrysler's lack of funds sealed its fate. You should do a video about another Roy Axe design which failed horribly because it was now hampered by PSA almost going bankrupt: Talbot Tagora.

[@andrewstones2921]

I lived in the UK thorough the 80s and it was extremely rare to see any of the Matra cars on the road even then. I saw Bagheeras and Ranchos for sale once or twice and considered buying one, but I cannot recall ever seeing an actual Murena.

[@volvo480]

@@andrewstones2921 the Murena was never officially imported in the UK to begin with, so no surprise there. I am living in The Netherlands, where officially 200 Murenas have been sold out of just over 10,000 produced. I can count the number of Murena I have seen outside Simca club meetings or visits to fellow Murena owners (I have owned a Murena 2.2 for 14 years) on the fingers of one hand, which includes the two I have seen in France!

[@wall-e3313]

In the States, we had a 2-door+hatch version. For those of you unfamiliar, look up Dodge Omni 024 or Plymouth Horizon TC3. Not a bad looking car for its day. Not sure if it was ever sold outside of North America.

[@oldmanwillyboy2786]

We had both ends of the Sublime to the ridiculous spectrum in our Family! My mum(who'd failed, and never passed, her driving test 6 times,), had a 1.2L ,brown auto! While my cousin had a Rally spec. ti, which was absolutely insane! and one of the best cars I've ever driven!

[@SimonBanfield]

Great to hear the story of this car. My Grandad had an A-reg 1.3 Horizon for years during my childhood and he passed it on to my older sister to be her first car. I have lots of memories of that red car, but I understand it was terrible, and it ultimately went to be crushed (compete with pristine seats) in 2000.

[@petersimpson5859]

Roy Axe certainly upped his game with the Rover R8 and 800. There's more than a hint of mk1 Astra about the Horizon as well as Golf.

[@phuketexplorer]

The Horizon was only let down by its rattling tappets and oil consumption, certainly not appearance. It was visually every bit as as appealing as the competition, at the time - including VW's Golf, and still looks good to this day.

[@mrjockt]

I bought my wife a ‘C’ plate Horizon as a replacement for her old beat up Fiesta just after we married back in 1990, we kept it for four years and never had a single issue with it.

[@samblensdorf7384]

It's a Chrysler from the 70s, and it's the best one

[@colrhodes377]

I had an Alpine and it was superb, I then traded it in for a new Horizon and had nothing but trouble. The gearbox was constantly going and eventually the dealer gave me a full refund

[@2t713]

of course it did...

[@judethaddaeus9742]

It’s also worth noting that the US Omni/Horizon versions were offered with the Simca 1.6L 4cyl as their base engine from 1983-86, but ironically had to buy it in from Peugeot.

[@BeePee1503]

This was my first ever car. I had a dark blue Horizon GLS that I bought in 1986 for £1500 from a used car dealer in Finchley.

[@grrlpurpleable]

The Talbot Horizon was my first car!!! :) Thankfully my beat-up old 4th hand one was an early 1.3 model without the door strips and with glorious chrome bumpers :)

[@timkyne286]

Bought American version Plymouth horizon while on a temporary visa in the states instead of rental car. Spec of US version surprisingly good with power steering, AC, automatic , plush seats etc 2.2 engine. Quite different imo to that Talbot regards finished product .

[@yowilly-r1u]

Did work in the factory wich produced the headliners for this model and Talbot Samba. Factory was located in Hoogezand Netherlands. I had a Simca Horizon 1.1 1979 and later a Talbot Horizon 1.3 1984

[@jimdoerr7483]

Great video! I'm American and the Horizon/Omni twins were very popular here because they were such great little cars. They compared very well against the competition availble here at the time, from styling, to performance (2.2L) and space/utility. Your video brought back memories of our hot hatch version, the Omni GLHS with it's turbo 2.2L. I remember a guy in High School having one, which was very cool indeed. I'dlove to have one now and think I'll watch a video on the GLHS next.

[@lloydbelle3406]

A Cherry Red Talbot Horizon 1.3LS (also 1442cc engine) was my first car. Yes, those seats were very comfortable. Contrary to the presenter, I think the looks of this car was pretty neat in its day. Of all my previous four cars - all brought 2nd hand, and owned for 7 to 10 years - the Horizon has been my most reliable car. Yes - things went wrong, but it was always drivable. Within the first year of car ownership I became an AA member. In 35 years I have acquired the assistance of the AA just 7 or 8 times, but never did I call them for assistance with my Talbot horizon. I owned that car for 8 years. If it wasn't for rust problems I would have kept it longer. The housing for one of the windscreen wiper hinges had completely rusted away it could no longer support the driver side windscreen wiper. I had to re-position the remaining centre windscreen wiper to cover as much screen as possible (Supercar/Rallycar style); then muster as much savings as I could to finance my next car before its next MOT was due.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

You brought up lots of good points about what was wrong with those brands back in the day. I used to work at a car dealer in the mid 80s and drove many of the US Omni/Horizon cars. Some of them were even powered by VW engines. My favorite memory was hopping into an Omni but the badging on the interior was Horizon. Quality control was clearly lacking!

[@emjayay]

The Omni and Horizon were slight variations of each other made on the same assembly line. Detroit occasionally made a car with far bigger mismatch mistakes than that back then!

[@alexandermoore2982]

Too good! I just finished a Simca/Talbot deep-dive on Driven To Write so this was a wonderful way to tie up loose ends and clarify the state of Chrysler Europe to me, a Californian who's only ever seen a Chrysler Omni! xD

[@ronaldderooij1774]

I remember that in the Netherlands, people found this car to be too expensive and too prone to rust. Those were the main failing factors. Another less important one was the bad after sales service.

[@willieckaslike]

I had the 1600 SX Auto model. It was well equipped, build quality was "so so", it was fairly comfortable and pleasant to drive. The biggest problem was the carb. One of Weber's worst, time after time it failed miserably. Only kept it for about six months and traded it in for an 1,3 Astra, which in contrast NEVER let me down !

[@gyost8147]

The Simca 1100/1204 never got the full credit it deserved...especially as you mentioned that VW used it to design the Gold/Rabbit.

[@honestreviewer3283]

In Canada there was a version of this car called the Dodge "Omni." It was a piece of junk in pretty much every way, but it had a 2.0 litre engine and was FAST.