The Talent Class by MCDM | Playtest Quick Look: Narrative & Core

[@PuellaRider]

At this rate Matt is gonna need to make an official MCDM's screen just to help us keep track of all of his unique systems

[@Braincain007]

Actually, they did make a DM's screen for the kingdoms and Warfare kickstarter

[@camdonturley13]

This aged well. They’re building a system from the ground up now

[@timothyburger6715]

I think the extra customization and stuff to manage is a plus. Matts tendency towards crunch is not a flaw and more so a symptom of 5e being oversimplified. The class is a great addition for tables looking for complexity.

[@luizkormann314]

I have one of the oficial playtesters playing in the same game as I am, for now the class is still cool, but it's only lvl 3 till now

[@luizkormann314]

With this class, I forgot to mention lol

[@Trulyawmy]

@@luizkormann314 After all this time (2 years since the comment), any verdict for the class? Is it good, bad, balanced? Thoughts?

[@Spencisms]

Holy moly the strain track made my brain hurt...

[@Hyodorio]

I feel like tracking strain, as long as you have it printed and can use your dice as tracking or a digital thing is easier than spell slot. You have 3 tracks with 6 levels, but slots are 9 tracks with varying levels (nvm adding sorcery points). Yeah it has additional descriptions but I feel like as long as you have the table handy it'd be kinda easy, but idk I'm kinda bought into the idea already so maybe you're right and your solution sounds interesting.

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

Honestly, the way effort and stat pools work in Cypher System is probably a better way to run psionics if this "at will until you burn yourself out" setup is what you're going for.

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

I'd probably be more invested in MCDM's spin on the beast master and psion base classes, but I've already bought into the Web DM Weird Wastelands and Jess Jackdaw's Heliana's Guide to monster hunting kick starters.

[@Soupdude338]

I think your critique is fair, I also don't think they are interested in forcing it to be exact in the 5e expectation. I think they want to prioritize is it fun and evocative. That's good for me, because I like strain a lot, but I can see how for the average player (which to be fair anyone consuming third party content is not), it might be to much.

[@christopheracea5835]

If hit points are meant to quantify your character’s morale or ability to will power, perhaps strain deals hit point damage to you instead. I do understand that cure wounds and other healing effects may be able to break that but that’s where I would start as a baseline. I understand they were trying to go with a more forgiving version of exhaustion, but I think that’s a problem with exhaustion itself. I love the idea of strain but as it is currently written it is indeed clunky. Edit: Alternatively, a singular threshold that if reached grants a level of exhaustion could be interesting. For example, at level 1 a single strain is enough to cause 1 level of exhaustion. After you reach that threshold 6 times you are dead. However that threshold can increase over time, such as at points you would gain ASIs (4/8/12/16/19).

[@jungwirth984]

Appreciate your work. I honestly like strain a lot. But I agree with you critique completely. Also your solution seems very simple and elegant. I don´t believe that MCDM will change strain to this degree tho. The pyrokinetic also seems a bit odd to me. I however don´t mind that a class would have access to only one type of elemental damage.

[@MetaCliff]

I regret sleeping through this segment.

[@nickh3205]

113 pages is a bit much for a class even as play test material

[@Indestructoboy]

As a layout artist, I'd say this would most likely be reduced to about 60 pages after it actually gets formatted

[@rasimir6124]

i think the strain mechanic would work on sorcerers also. Upcasting a spell by using your life force instead of the required spell slot would make the sorcerer more distinct than the wizard. also i just want to play as megumin and have a big EXPLOSION!!! once per long rest

[@clockwork_mind]

I appreciate this review, even though I don't agree with all of it. You didn't avoid praising the narratives and mechanics you really liked, and even when you didn't like something, your focus was on how to fix it without changing *too much.* I will say, though, that I really like the Strain mechanic, and it's actually a big part of my core fantasy of a psionic character. I don't like the idea of spending a pool of "points" that have no effect on you until you run out, even if those points are hit dice, and a theoretically useful resource for a future short rest. I don't want to spend points from a pool and have to purely roleplay being tired. This is actually what has bounced me off of every other psionic class I've seen. (Please tell me if I'm missing one that's different.) I also think that, much as I have previously wanted to incorporate Exhaustion into more aspects of the game, I’ve learned that the Exhaustion table is too abrupt and uneven, especially to use in a core class resource feature. It's FINE, I guess, as a feature of hard travel, one barbarian subclass, and like a couple spells, but any more involvement than that and it really breaks down. Even if it only comes into play after expending all of your "points," or if each level of Exhaustion requires a threshold of strain points to activate, the levels vary so widely from each other, with the first level being near-invisible in combat situations but heavily detrimental in adventuring, then the second level being, as you said, "not too bad for a back liner," though making it way harder to stay out of harm's way when you can't even outrun zombies. Then the third and fourth levels are so majorly dangerous in combat that singular points of strain can swing you over a knife's edge. Penalizing attack rolls AND saving throws at the same time is a HUGE jump, and halving max HP is almost a death sentence, which is why it's at the very very end of the physical strain track, only even available as an option at like 19th level Talent. And then of course at five Exhaustion you're so boned that it's almost not worth having as a step before death. I also like the idea of multiple tracks, and being able to choose where to gain strain, that's a really engaging choice, but I can definitely imagine getting analysis paralysis from trying to pick 1 of 3 detriments to incur every time, which would slow me down. I've heard that they revised it to one track in the following playtest a week later, though I don't know what it looks like. I missed the open period and can't find any videos about it. I think it's probably for the best, you could even track it in the margins of the front-page of your character sheet. Strain is definitely a non-standard piece of design in 5e, but I (and apparently a lot of people) like it for what it is. If you're going to go off-script and make a class that accumulates detriments unlike every other class in 5e, there's no more fitting archetype than a psychic. I'd probably be weirded out if this design were published by WotC, being so different. But I think it's perfect as 3rd-party content, because people who love the idea of growing tired and strained can seek this out, and people who prefer the more toothless 5e resource spending can pick from one of many other psionic homebrew classes out there. Sorry, I know this is an essay under a 6-month-old video about 1st playtest material, not exactly very relevant or important, but your critique was very constructive and good-faith, and made me want to engage with it, even if this is never read by anyone.

[@Darkningvolt]

In my opinion, psions, psychics, and espers should not always have intelligence as the main stat. Most of those fictional people are not always the smart ones. I mean, in fiction, they can be of all types; the face, the charismatic leader, the wise, the heart, the I know all. As a result, this class should allow you to select one of the mental stats as your primary.

[@GuyFawkes051]

I'm inclined to agree. I remember a book I read when I was a kid, can't at all remember the plot or title but it was an interesting book about a bunch of psychic kids. Each had a unique psychic power, one kid a telekinetic, another a telepath, etc. The protag was the telekinetic, and he wasn't very academically inclined, very much emotionally driven. (The telepathic kid was the smart one, I vaguely recall a rivalry between them) I like that idea of telekinetic especially being highly... Uncontrolled. You could be a disciplined master of the psionic arts, or you could just be someone with a big mental baseball bat. The choice would be nice.

[@That_Squatch]

Does anyone know if theres been any news recently about the talent i havent been able to download the older playtests past 1st release, the link just goes to their homepage

[@Indestructoboy]

OGL news is putting all development on hold

[@JonathanMartinez-ei4up]

Pyokinesis is fire, combustion (and sometimes lightning, like fire benders in avatar). For other elements you go into Hydrokinesis for water, ice, and blood manipulation. It can also give some influence over storms, but there is also a specific weather kinesis (like storm from x-men). Aerokinesis is flight and air/wind manipulation, gyrokinesis is gravity, whereas geokenis is Earth benders. So to answer you on why they don’t have energy kinesis which branches out into doing it all, it’s because there are just soooo many that they each need their own “subclass” essentially.

[@ElionMars]

"Go, Meat shield!" "I thought you said my name was Mischa!" "Eh, close enough."

[@3libras903]

If in 5e having a resource where there is more of twenty of it is bad, would that make spell points bad? I’ve been working on a class that uses spell points (from the variant rule) rather than spell slots following half caster progression.

[@Indestructoboy]

Spell points are presented as an option because of this exact philosophy.

[@fortunatus1]

There's too much tracking for Strain. You have to track your points in both Mind and Soul. You have to track when you take strain and the effects of the strain as well. MCDM should just list your strain points on the class features table just telling you what your points are. They need to be careful about this because this is similar to Barbarian Berserker, widely disliked for its exhaustion effect. EDIT: But Taron's Hit Dice idea is much smoother. If they want it to have more weight, they can make an ascending chart of effects with each hit die spent.

[@JaggerSWright]

I really like what he's going for with the whole penalties but they should be tweaked to not be less impactful but easier to manage. But still, having a class with a lot to manage is going to requiere a specific player that keeps track of their resources.

[@matthewconlon2388]

Why not instead use exhaustion and allow you to swap out levels of exhaustion with conditions. Instead of the Exhaustion 1, you are poisoned for a minute. Instead of exhaustion 3, you’re stunned for a round. Instead of exhaustion 6, you are unconscious as Sleep spell. So if you gain 4 exhaustion, you can swap out 2 for those conditions and only have 2 exhaustion. The next time you get 1 exhaustion; you can choose to be stunned for a round again.

[@startingoverpodcast]

Where can I find this play test material?

[@matthewconlon2388]

Hit die>strain. If you can’t afford the. Hit die, you get exhaustion. Add a feature for 1/day reduce exhaustion gained in this way by rolling a hit die (or just use proficiency bonus).

[@blueyoshi4211]

Okay I agree with most of this, but as someone who’s played berserker barbarian and seen how that goes; who the hell would rather take exhaustion than stress lmao?

[@Indestructoboy]

The cost of a hit die leading up to exhaustion if you choose to overtap

[@blueyoshi4211]

@@Indestructoboy i mean I get the idea, it’s just that, personally, this works how I wished berserker barb exhaustion worked. PHB exhaustion lacks so much nuance and after doing your cool thing twice, you’re fucked for the rest of the adventuring day; the only level of exhaustion recovery per long rest hurts as well. Personally exhaustion is an absolute pain and I would take this anyway.

[@baowen2973]

I think WebDMs psion has the right idea with a psion. Its not thousands of pages to learn and memorize. It catches creativity depth and simplicity. Problem with the Talent is its not just learning a class but your also learning a bunch of other stuff too

[@tristanescure7384]

After thinking about it some more, I really don't like that the Strain tracks have narrative "detriments". I don't think Talent players need that, they can come up with their own nose-bleed, intense sweat, headack, mind-freeze, irritability, etc. I'd much rather have that narrative stuff included in the explicative text for each type of Strain as exemples. Alternatively, empower the DM to make that stuff up on the fly.

[@showcase0525]

I fail to see the difficulty in strain. Its a simple as a three column exhaustion table. We understand the mechanics behind it with exhaustion, so its that, 2 more times. You can take it out, then the class is hollow and becomes less balanced. Reducing it takes alot away from choice (im strong so i'll choose to mainly take physical strain, etc), and the why not just use exhustion straight up, since thats kinda taken as a design slot with the Barb, but even if you say it can be used again, it would need a twist. Leaning to Indestructoboys suggestion - would work, and is a nice path, but now it makes the class very limited, as no one likes to gain more than one exhaustion, and hit die recovery is alot slower to use as a resource for going all out. I fear that this path would cause either super safe play with powers, or the living on the edge of death players, and no inbetween. Strain allows of inbetween in its current form. Interesting overall, which can be overhauled or kept as is for more playtesting from my opinion.

[@Indestructoboy]

It’s unnecessarily complicated and just overall has poor game feel for 5e

[@showcase0525]

@@Indestructoboy I can understand the poor game feel. That's fair enough. Maybe it's just me, it just seems understandable, but could be level of complication as a game tracking feature along with the other aspects.

[@brucemaximus3797]

I jumped on MCDM's talent class as soon as I heard about it and, honestly, it felt... Off. Case in point: the Memory Gap Power. Erase a ten-minute span of memory within the last 24 hours. How on God's green earth is that under Chronopathy and not Telepathy? There are a few other powers like that; the entire set of Pyrokinesis abilities (and subclass) just strikes a discordant note in my brain. The one standout good development was the Strain mechanic; it feels like a much-appreciated contextual evolution of "Roll-to-Cast" found in multiple OSR systems.

[@matthewconlon2388]

I will say, at a glance, there are no rules about Barbarians being unable to manifest powers while raging... sounds like an easy subclass.

[@archersfriend5900]

Super complicated!

[@matthewconlon2388]

Psionics skill is unnecessary, if Arcana can cover mindflayers, it can cover this.

[@zeestar0112]

Wizards can't learn spells from Mindflayers