The The 7th Saga "review" | Jason Graves | EVERY SNES RPG #17

It's The 7th Saga! The infamous cult classic known for being "hard"... whatever that means.
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[@JasonGravesPoser]

1k views?? Thanks everyone! Especially you stranger!

[@robertfata2715]

I got this game when it first came out in 1993. Didn’t beat it. Tried again in 2013. Didn’t beat it. Tried again in 2018. Gave up. Finally, in the year 2020, during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, I gave it another try and I finally beat it! I played as Kamil and chose Esuna as my companion. She did not betray me. I beat it at Level 60 with 68 hours and 33 minutes of gameplay.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

Kamil is a good choice for the 1st go through, and Esuna is the best companion to have.

[@robertfata2715]

@@CurlyFromTheSwirly I want to try it again with Olvan.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

@@robertfata2715, Nothing wrong with that. He's almost what Kamil is. I don't think Olvan gets attack spells for groups. But anyone that you pick as a partner would have that except Valsu.

[@randomperson10101]

Fun fact about the 7 characters, Esuna and Lux, the elf and robot, are the only 2 that can't betray you. Not sure why that is, they can still be rivals but, if you can manage to recruit one of them, they'll be a loyal companion for the whole game. Those two were actually my favorite combo with Lux as my main character. They cover each other very nicely.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

@@randomperson10101, I call bull s#!+ on that. I usually pick Esuna as my companion, and once or twice she has betrayed me. You probably haven't played the game enough to see this, as such betrayals are rare. Or you may be confusing it with the part in Patrof, where many fans call the person there a traitor.

[@KarlBonner1982]

Correction on the time loop: after getting killed you are reincarnated as King Lemele, only to get assassinated and impersonated by Gorsia several decades later. Then Gorsia trains your original self for 5 years to execute his nefarious plot once again, rinse and repeat...

[@Spillpolitiet]

i beat the 7th saga with a baseball bat

[@JasonGravesPoser]

Wakka Wakka!

[@DoubleDragonGaming]

The answer is yes... I do love video games. But I still DESPISE level grinding 🙃

[@oliverjoel5870]

I personally don't mind grinding in RPGs, I find it quite rewarding and the repetition is kind of therapeutic lol. Anyway I'm loving your content, just binge watched all your RPG reviews. Can't wait for the next one!!

[@firstcooommment3675]

I beat the game underleveled... I didn't realize until a few years later. The biggest challenge for me, was when I was near the late late game in a desert, got lost, unable to figure out the puzzle for the story, then end up getting invaded with every monster becoming boss level.

[@inakilukac]

This game's battle screen is insanely cool with those stylish sprites, a decent amount of animation, and the mode7 transition. I find it shocking that other rpgs weren't trying to do the same, the closest is probably drakken. It's like an early aproximation of how nowadays many jrpgs manage to just have the battles take place in the same map as the one you explore instead of a separate instance. Regarding the channel, what's up with that swarm of dislikes on most of your videos? did some drama happen?

[@rafetizer]

Yes, although Drakken sucks balls.

[@TheBoredJord]

Nice review! Didn't know anything about this game until now but man some of these bosses have awesome designs. And I'm gonna guess the Inn is Building #5.

[@Lastjustice]

As someone who does enjoy grinding a bit I didn't mind 7th saga. I beat it back in the day with minimal help , as I periodically talked to my friend who loaned it to me as I progressed. I feel like the game has nuggets of really great ideas, but they need tweaked to truly make it a GREAT game. Like had each character been given their own unique side quests and built(or destroyed) their relationships with the other apprentices over the course of the game it would been much more interesting. I'd have inhuman characters racism take a greater factor, as I'd have shop keepers charge them more, but they'd get exclusive gear through black market and side quests others didn't. I think a game plus where you slowly change the fate of the game, as it's a giant time loop, but with the 7th character you can finnally change fate in some way(Say each rune is connected to specfic hero, so they unlock it's true form when you beat the game as them while performing certain tasks along the way.). You'd have a reason then to play thru as everyone rather basically if you beat it as a magic user, and melee character you basically got the core experience. I'd also unlock Pison as bonus character, so we can find out who actually paid him to hunt you. (I assume it was the King, but it's never clear.)

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

Dude, I totally agree. The only thing I ever could guess is when I played as Lejes, it seemed Valsu would hire Poison, and vice-versa.

[@awsomkid3735]

Maybe make playing as king lemel possible and fight gorisa yourself.

[@nnk2391]

Im a part of the 7th saga cult, BEST RPG ever made period. Noone will like this but chrono triggers good, but 7th saga is king.

[@drkingslend]

Thank You, yes its better than chrono trigger! The games not hard as Wilme, hes the OP of the chars

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

@@drkingslend, Wilme is strong in most ways, but he is weak against magic. (I always make sure he gets the max magic/intelligence of 3 per level or reset.) But there are fans of each character saying how they are the best. Each has strengths and weaknesses.

[@brekedekdang39]

If no one likes it, why do you like it? I am sure there are some who may agree with you. In my opinion, there are some things to like about it. The battles are cool with the graphics. However, the story sucks. FFVI and Chrono Trigger have much more interesting characters and storylines. But what makes 7th Saga a good game is the challenge it provides. The player must exercise great patience and persistence to get through the game.

[@Potentialbliss]

Literally the first RPG played as a kid! Thanks for the review! What a throwback!

[@TheMixedPlateFrequency]

I thought the story and plot was pretty cool. It looks like there's been a time-loop, and the only way to stop the time-loop, was to find the book this time. In which you do find the book and record new information on it on the events that went on and battles. And I think when the new born is reincarnated as Lemele, they would protect him from getting killed this time. I always wondered what this game would look like with a full remake in unreal engine 5. But at same time trying to keep some of the art style of the characters and stuff in the 7th saga intact.

[@vangelis7]

I remember renting this as a kid. Jesus Christ a barely got 20 minutes into the game.

[@Telecritter78]

“Unofficial” H.C. Bailey cameo, uttering his trademark “nuts”.

[@Tomoose736]

Don't sell yourself short, your commentary is the main selling point for your channel, not the video quality. Those skills come with time, I'll take fun over boring but high quality any day of the week.

[@BriahnAznable]

INCOMING OLD MAN RAMBLE: I beat this game when I was 9 or 10, kept renting it from a local Movie Warehouse and nobody had deleted my save so I'd just continue whenever I re-rented it. The fated day was when I rented a shiny new game in the store I had never seen before called Smart Ball one Friday after school. Took it home and beat it after like 2 hours... I was so upset. MY WEEKEND PLANS WERE GONE! My parents felt pity on me (I always used chore money to rent/buy games) so they took me back and were gonna grab something else for me. The employee at Movie Warehouse (Steve?) ALSO amazingly took pity on me. I guess he could see how sad I was and actually just let me "replace" it. Absolute Giga-Chad. Ended up replacing it with 7th SaGa as I was at a loss for what else I could get (plus I think my parents just wanted to get home so I was rushing).... mom helped me exchange it with Steve and my Dad walked back into the store holding a Little Caesar's pizza from next door. FUCKIN' CRAZY BREAD TOO! Went home, munched pizza and basically played the game from where I was at for the rest of the weekend. Save was still secure this time so I wanted to see how far I could get! Long story short, ended up beating it that weekend with the help of Nintendo Power telling me what order to use the runes in. Absolutely glorious even though the time loop stuff went COMPLETELY over my head as a kid. Watching this review made me reflect on WHY my brain likes grinding in general. I'm a grind connoisseur. My brother used to have me play Dragon Warrior 1 while he was at school... I must have been like 5? I would grind all day on whatever monsters I could and then when he got home he'd get further in the "plot". That would go for any other NES RPG... Crystalis, FF1, etc etc... if it can be ground, I grinded. To this day I STILL love grinding. FFXIV achievements, maxing stats in a Disgaea game, leveling up in Ragnarok Online... grinding helps my otherwise busy brain actually relax. When you're out there cutting down monsters or collecting something, you can reach a zen like state. You reflect on events in life, little things that occurred during the day, macro things like where you wanna go in a year, etc etc. You can read books, watch t.v. shows, chat with friends... grinding is a multi-tasker's dream. My greatest (darkest?) grinding moment was playing an MMO on the computer with my friends while I leveled up in a SEPARATE PC game WHILE ALSO playing 3DS. I remember them breaking down at the cacophony of noise that was coming through my mic since I didn't have a headset at that exact time. I just wish life was actually like that, you know? The greatest thing about grinding is you can see an accomplishable goal in front of you and you know that 100% of the time if you just put the time in, you'll succeed. It's akin to saying "I'll do 100 push ups every day" instead of "I'll get in shape"... one is something you can just DO, the other is nebulous, might not happen for a plethora of reasons. If you tell me that I need to level up 5 more times to beat a dude, easy peasy. If you say "that's like 100 monsters per level" I'll just go "Okay, so 500 monsters. Start the countdown." Life is full of uncertainties. I'm gonna be 40 this year and I've experienced so god damn much. I don't want to sound completely jaded and cynical but logically no matter how hard you work, you might never be recognized. I think any creator out there has gone through that internal struggle. No matter how much planning you put in, you might fail through no fault of your own. It's unpredictable. Some people might get off on that, but it's the opposite for me. Any goal without a defined timeframe seems impossible to me because I get analysis paralysis, thinking of the billion things that can go wrong. Instead of me finishing or releasing writing I've worked on, I just let it die. When you're growing up you learn that ____ leads to _____. Eating food will make you less hungry. Touching something sharp will cut you. You learn more about the world and see that kind of logic applies to everything... if you mix two specific chemicals, you'll always get a specific reaction. When it comes to goals however, there's no guidelines. Dude who worked his ass off in college might end up homeless saddled with debt, dropout guy might end up rich because he was in the right place at the right time to make a seemingly arbitrary decision. Without the promise of anything happening for your hard work, you might as well be lighting candles in a closet and praying for success because it ends up playing out the same. It might happen, it might not happen. If I could be assured after failing 9 times I'd get it on the 10th, it would make sense for me... at more core I can't handle struggling for no reason, it just makes no sense to me. Some people would assume I have no willpower if I can't handle failure, but it's not that. It's just that wasting time seems like the biggest sin of all, and why waste time if nothing will come of it? (Hilarious coming from my pro-grind mindset, but I digress... one person's waste of time is another person's reason for living) Without the promise of anything happening for your hard work, you might as well be lighting candles in a closet and praying to God for success because it ends up playing out the same. It might happen, it might not happen. Sure, things can go wrong with grinding... power will go out, you might die and lose some progress depending on the game, or in the case of achievements you might miss your opportunity for awhile or fail some RNG... but at the end of the day, it's still just a number that has to go up a certain amount of times and if you put the time and work in, it WILL happen. If life was more like that, I would have enjoyed my run more. I'm intensely at peace with who I am and what I've done in my life up to this point after Covid so I'm not a horrifically depressed person anymore, I've never been more content TBH so I don't want to sound too depressing, but just stream of consciousness typing here. I guess an example of what I'd like is if you could promise that working at a job for 5 years would result in a promotion, or working for 20 years would ensure owning a house, I could handle this life a lot easier. Maybe I just like following orders? Hand me a checklist and it gets done, ask me to do vague shit like "improve the customer experience" and my eyes roll into the back of my head because WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IT COULD BE A MILLION DIFFERENT THINGS. I'm a grocery store manager so I know what it's like to lead and I've bitten more bullets in my life to progress to this point, but it just feels so empty. Could I improve myself by giving tiny goals each day? Sure. It goes back to nothing being assured though so I hate goals like "live happier" as opposed to goals like "clean the kitchen after you cook something" so I don't even know what I could tell myself to trick me into being enthralled with life. Give me a grind any day of the week. Tell me to sell 10 pounds of cabbage a day instead of saying be more profitable. I guess my personal takeaway is that essentially life is a grind without a point, grinding is life with a point. /ramble Appreciate the videos, been watching every night before bed recently and it's been full of fun memories and even made me reflect on myself as we see here. I'm up to Eye of the Beholder in Oldest to Newest and always feel like I have something I wanna say about each video but the 7th SaGa and the question of "Is grinding fun? Is it a complete lack of respect for my time or is it something else, it's own reward?" have stuck in my brain for days now. If you actually read this, thank you.

[@anonymousm9113]

Ah...grinding. I played this game a few times, but never managed to beat it. Like you, I rented it a few times, but I either never got the same copy or my saves were overwritten. Speaking of rental games and saves, it was great renting Final Fantasy II and finding late game saves with rare items like the rat tail! Translating the grinding mentality of us 16-era RPG players (I'm 45 now) to life is a good analogy. I ground away for over 20 years in the Army. I started that quest with a GED and uncertain future, and now feel like I'm at "New Game +", having a degree, a house, and being a disabled retiree embarking on a new quest. I use the term "play the game", and if I can be childish for a minute, that's all it was. Super motivated Infantryman 20 years ago, temporary class change to Recruiter for a few years, headquarters staff NPC for a while, powerup to Drill Sergeant, and finally wise old advisor (well-kinda) on a couple of General Staffs. We'll never get back the magic of our youth, but was it really that magic? I've played various versions of my favorite RPG of all time--FFVI--and while the hours spent locked in my room back in '94 with only a strategy guide as a companion will never be replicated, I still enjoy the game. Heck, I need to see if it's still on my phone. It's a nice way to pass the time and to rectify past mistakes (sorry for leaving you on the Floating Continent 30 years ago, Shadow...). But the "magic"? Those days are long gone. Loved ones have passed even while families have grown. The magic is what we make it as we continue to age. Video games are part of that magic, and one which subsequent generations have only expanded on. The scores of hours I spent playing FFVI over the past three decades are probably eclipsed by the time my adult son puts into World of Tanks in any given month. I just found this channel and have been binging it. A few more videos and it's bedtime, but hey, I'm slowly turning into Tellah. Old, slow, forgetful, and probably gone by mid-game. 👴

[@DarkKnightGrimm]

I've beaten this game when I was 12 with Kamil and Wilme as the companion, bought this game in 1996 from a pawn shop. I even bought it a second time in its complete form some 20 years later.

[@elsanto2401]

beat the game with Lux and Esuna back in the day. Accidentally went to the Doros dungeon ahead of schedule and the grinding there was like gravity training.

[@JasonGravesPoser]

For sure, you can walk a little too far and that'll happen

[@TheBrazilRules]

When I was a kid, I hated grinding, which made the Final Fantasy series be my favorite(You can beat all the bosses save the last in every game without grinding if you figure out the strategy) but as I grew older I started appreciating the grind and now value Dragon Quest a bit more than FF. I had an idea of making a video about how JRPGs don't understand levels, and you hilariously proved my point being more of a JRPG player yourself. Level 1 means you are fully trained in your class, and that takes years of training. The only way to gain experience levels is through adventures(that is why they are called experience points, and not training points). Everyone else that has never did any training is actually level 0.

[@sdgc8667]

I rented this multiple times as a kid in the hopes of beating it. Miraculously my save survived untouched but I had to settle for just getting whatever the next spell for Lux was.

[@tmitsurugi7777]

3 grind spots, that's all. 25-30 Hour playthrough. Not bad at all

[@KCUFyoufordoxingme]

It is also neat because the biggest walls in the game can be 100% your fault. You pick the worst party for the worst rival, and you over level before the point where the rival level is decided AND you are unaware of how to check what rival you are getting you can get legit stuck until you grind past it. If you know the game, you can massively cut the grind. Spiders suck for everyone, and robot walks too loud. I had an addiction to this game where I had to play through 2-3 times a year with the worst party combos I could think of. I love the random chance events throwing wrenches into your planned path in the game that you learn from replays.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

What is the worst party?

[@hikaruk.981]

@@CurlyFromTheSwirly If I had to guess? Probably Kamil and Lux. Kamil gets the worst level-ups, and Lux gets no healing. If not that, then Lux and Wilme.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

@Hikaru K. , I would say that any 2 apprentices that are too similar. Lux & Wilme would be bad for sure. Either with Lejes is bad. Kamil would work with anyone, cause he has healing. It makes a boring party, but Kamil & Olvan is a good enough team (which I used in my 1st completion). I think the general consensus is Esuna is the best companion for everyone. I would say Kamil is the best companion for her. However, 1 deviation I would make from the "everyone" theory above is if I played as Valsu I would take Lejes. Kamil or Olvan would also be good. Even Wilme.

[@aghinem]

Beat this game a few weeks ago with Wilme. Was one of the more difficult playthroughs given the great God of Wiz took a big leak on me and made Valsu the traitor, and Lux the thief of the Sky Rune. Fighting Valsu in Patrof was nothing short of a nightmare - and it took several, several, several attempts. Lux was also a pain in my ass, but my speed stat on Wilme helped greatly with that fight. As Wilme, did my first part of the journey with Olvan so I could get into Grime Tower and get the secret passcode; did the second part of my journey with Esuna...and she did not disappoint. Another playthrough of this beast I did years ago was with Valsu/Lux combination and Olvan / Lejes. Valsu is pretty much God at level 40, and if you take advantage of the bug with Lux and the Melenam upgrade - you can make him into a God. Speed is key in this game - nothing else really matters.

[@seriouslypersona968]

This game looks super fun!Love old school style rpgs!😎👽

[@alejandropardo4891]

super fun..strating--- but still a great rpg for hardcore gamers. i Beat it, but tried alot

[@seriouslypersona968]

@@alejandropardo4891 Love those old sckool RPGs the best!!

[@CosmicCosmo1]

Great music too!

[@roguerifter9724]

I did beat this as a teenager but I definitely disagree that restoring the game to the original balance would somehow make it worse instead of better,

[@tonygutierrez8490]

Ive also beaten this game. It was hard but i love this game

[@smack5472]

I beat the 7th saga back in the 90s as the Alien and Demon combo. The only thing I remember was a quest where you need to rescue children from one of the other 7 characters and for me it was the priest.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

That's an interesting combo. You probably mean saving the city of Patrof, where 1 of the 7 has killed the king, taken over, and is in possession of a rune. Majority of time I get there, Valsu the priest seems to be the bad guy.

[@JonnyMegabyte]

Completed recently... preparing to bask.

[@sebastienrousseau1656]

Beat it 1) Kamil 2) Valsu Grinding festival, loved everything, great story, random encounter with apprentice..

[@z.s.7992]

I have decided to leave a like because I have also beaten 7th Saga on original hardware (when I was a kid) Loved it. I chose the dwarf type guy to start with.

[@zedorda1337]

I played EverQuest 1 for over 9 years. Grinding is THE fun.

[@tylerfitzgerald2885]

I beat this when I was 12 on hardware as well one of my favorites and discovering runes was amazing. Grinding was great and felt like work amd something to look forward to

[@GB-sh9st]

Almost beat it... getting sent to the future with no runes and tougher enemies broke my spirit to grind on

[@rchassereau2]

I feel like you would love the dragon warrior 3 hardtype romhack - grindy, yeah, but man does it make you feel good when you can beat enemies. Can't recommend it enough.

[@TheRoomy]

I've beaten 7th Saga several times without the patch, and I've beaten it with every character with the patch. This is a good video showcasing the game, but I suggest not following the final advice and to use the patch. The game still has PLENTY of grinding. Hours and hours of it. You still feel like you've earned that victory, and the challenge of the battles is the exact same. I don't find the grind to be the meat of the game and it's hollow without it. To me, the primary strength of 7th Saga is the way the game is different for each character you choose, and which partner you use with them (or even doing a solo run if you're feeling brave). 7th Saga has replayability, and the excessive grind gets in the way of that. If you're new to 7th Saga and wanted to give it a try, I suggest having at least one character with a solid low cost magic attack, and at least one with healing. My favorite char is Olvan, and he pairs really well with Esuna or Valsu. Oh and unlike other RPGs, defend is a massive part of this game. After you defend, your next attack does double damage. Attacks are about setup and payoff, and Olvan does that really well.

[@hiroyui9699]

Beat it twice. Love this game.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

Ha Ha Come back when you have beaten it solo with every character.

[@collosiamusic3036]

you got to do the Wizardry games for SNES!

[@RoninCatholic]

The first Dragon Quest's grinding was fun because there were serious risk/reward considerations and resource management to collecting both the money and the experience. The combat in that game, while simple, was fun to interact with for its own sake, or at least to me and a few others.

[@MrCrisTheRo]

I'm basking so hard right now. My glory!

[@brekedekdang39]

I didn't have the patience to beat this in the 90s when I was in middle/high school. The battle screen is really cool though, one of the best on the SNES. I finally beat it a couple of years ago with an emulator and fast-forwarded to grind levels more quickly. To be honest, I think I would have been even more pissed without an emulator because the ending sucks so much. If I were to play it to the end again today, without an emulator, I would use Valsu (for Elixer) and grind, while slowly progressing through the game, and wait until around level 40 to recruit an ally. The nice thing about the allies, is that they gain stats much more quickly than the playable character, so when you finally recruit one, they're super strong. When I used the emulator, I ended up getting Esuna (thinking that I would be able to switch her later, and that I needed to say yes since I was afraid I would never get an ally at that point). This was not ideal since they are both magic users, but in fact, her stats were so high that it it didn't really matter which character it was. By the end of the game, she had maxed out most stats. She became my attacker, and Valsu was my healer. I rarely used Esuna's magic since her attack was more powerful at that point, and didn't use MP. Probably the best attack partner would be Lux since he can get the stat boost later in the game. But I think any character with Valsu (with Elixer and enough MP to cast it twice) can beat the game quite handily.

[@ManillaHeep]

I used Esuna and Valsu also, easily destroyed the endgame with that team’s Ice spells and using Runes

[@anonymousm9113]

Keep up the great work! In a way, you're still grinding it out, but now you're playing the RPG that's known as KZbin. I've watched quite a few channels, including SNESdrunk, blow up over the years. Quality, constant, improvement, and most of all, persistence, is what's needed to get into the 10ks, 100ks, and eventually millions of subscribers.

[@oofley8346]

Defending essentially doubling as a concentration skill in this game reminds me of how you can build up focus in breath of fire 4 by defending after the initial use for a couple turns

[@thommccarthy1139]

This game is fuggin legendary. One of those game where I welcome the craziness and cryptic nonsense. I wouldn't want it to be 'better'.

[@gtown2101]

Playing through it now and from what I can tell the "over-leveling" concern with apprentices is a little overblown. There's only one mandatory apprentice battle (SPOILER) in Patrof and once you identify which one it is he actually remains at a static level, so as long as you aren't hung up on demanding his rune right away you can always come back when over leveled and roflstomp that one much easier. Now there's a second semi-mandatory apprentice battle but it's more based on speed but for the sake of argument, let's say that one is mandatory since it's unlikely you will be able to get to the Sky Rune in time without another apprentice grabbing it first, in that case, your level will be an issue, but really the only one where I would say this is an automatic impossibility is if you're unlucky enough to have it be Valsu and he's already learned Elixir (in my case this playthrough it was Valsu but he hadn't learned it yet so it was more about tricking his AI and getting him down to just enough HP to not immediately heal but low enough to one shot with one attack).

[@RedWizard0]

I finished this game using Lejes as my main and Valsu as my partner. Easily the worst combo in the game.

[@sigma1932]

Uh... you guys realize you can set the game up to grind on its own, right? The rando's on the overworld map attack you even if you don't move, so just play long enough that the enemies around the starting towns pose no threat, then set up an auto controller to keep attacking... might have to tweak the D-pad to allow for rejecting drops, etc., but it definitely works. Back in HS I used to set it up before school or before bed, and then did the "fun part" later.

[@evancoffland19]

once you get to the cave with metal pison, you can grind from level 40 to 80 in like two to three hours.

[@mysteryrpgs]

Yeah ok.

[@andywarda1481]

I beat it several times solo even. The real problem is over leveling. Having to fight another apprentice at higher levels may as well be a soft lock.

[@NightshineThieves]

Loved the part where you showed the pic of you beating it on a CRT! Gotta hate level grinding though... Really good review!

[@andywarda1481]

Side note what makes this game fun is the combat. Not necessarily the grinding but the runes and defending first to hit harder. It has a killer soundtrack and the different paths that open to certain characters offers replay value. Truthfully I found Lufia 1 to be an overall harder game to play and that was a solid game.

[@nathansmith-ju3pz]

I did have to grind for an insane amount of tiime, and didn't get to watch youtube while I played, it didn't exist yet...............did get to listen to some audio cassettes

[@commocore]

Comment from a stranger: EXACTLY! This game is really rewarding! That's why I play cRPGs. To skill up, get more immune, smarter, stronger, better!

[@ManillaHeep]

Esuna main, Valsu support. Ice magic all day. Use Runes liberally in battle (except for that one part where you lose them in the late game). I did sink a lot of hours grinding but I was easily obliterating enemies and bosses with this formula.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

You don't get reincarnated as the bad guy. Let me go over this. There was good guy Soro fighting bad guy Gorsia. Then there was good guy Lemele fighting bad guy Garisio. Then Gorisia came from the past and kills Lemele. He then takes Lemele's form & place. He lies to 7 apprentices and sends them to get the runes. The character you play as winds up sent back in time, defeats Gorsia but dies in the process. Saro was supposed to be reborn as his decendent Lemele (if you didn't catch that they look almost identical), but instead puts your soul into the body of Lemele. Then the followers of Saro scribe all the events down on that tablet, so that you will be prepared for Gorsia in the future.

[@thewingedavenger1007]

Good review, but I have a slight problem with what you say about "grinding", which I call "fighting". I'm not putting you in the group of reviewers I'm about to lambast, but I'm writing this here because you brought the topic up and dwelled upon it throughout the review. I don't understand why people complain about having to fight monsters repeatedly in RPGs. If you think the combat per se is fun, then you should think repeating it is fun. Do you like Pac-Man? If you think the first board is fun, then you should enjoy the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc, all of which are identical and repeat the same exact gameplay. And people who like tennis don't complain about "grinding" every time they play the game. They like tennis, and so they like playing it over and over again. The problem with people who complain about grinding is that they don't actually like the combat in the first place. And consequently, most of them probably don't really like RPGs; combat is a crucial part of an RPG, so if you don't like that, you won't like the game. People who don't like RPGs shouldn't review RPGs. I can't stand techno music, so I don't review techno albums, because it would be unfair to the artists - I would just give every album one star. This is a huge problem I have with most retro-game reviewers. They just want to pump out videos for the sake of numbers, and put lots of people off great RPGs such as NES Dragon Warrior, a masterpiece which no young people play because every reviewer bashes it for being "too hard". The reviewers almost invariably recommend the remakes, which are all terrible. I know there are tons of RPGs that don't require fighting many monsters, but those to me aren't really RPGs. Games like Hexyz Force and Legend of Dragoon are more like visual novels than RPGs. An RPG should give the player choices to make and ways to improve the character. Most "RPGs" are just linear picture books. Why do people read books on their game consoles? And why have Japanese game designers as your choice of authors, instead of Roger Zelazny, R. A. Salvatore, and other real fantasy writers? Anyway, the perfect example of the reviewers I'm discussing is the popular Dark Pixel Gaming (which has a new name now); he is really just a book reviewer, and not a videogame reviewer. He hates "grinding", and all he talks about is story, story, story.

[@willissudweeks1050]

Yep I hate fighting that way so I just don’t play the games. If I did it would indeed feel like a grind.

[@nmpltleopardi]

Preach on. If you don't like grinding don't play these games. Broken base&bonus stat growth aside, you ARE supposed to die a lot in your early levels. Tespect the genre and don't try to take it away from people that do enjoy the feeling of hitting a wall, and gradualy climbing said wall with the aid of patience and resilience. The point of RPG's is that you interact with and mold, to some extent, a fantasy, virtual world, but you also interact with and mold npcs and, ultimately your own avatar through choices that include leveling up. Not that you are spoon fed dungeon master fluff. A dm stsys out the way and provides structure and guidance. The story that these graphic novels, as you aptly called them, push down our throat are a cover up for the fact that these games often don't provide good tools for players to create their own unique and non-transmissible adventures. I don't care much for the genre, specialy japanese, story driven, console games (only few rpgs i care for are pc games like fallout1; age of decadence; temple of elemental evil + some classic ascii roguelikes) but I don't want to stand in the way of those who do like the genre.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

OK, but just the same as most people have a favorite song, they don't only want to hear that song. Life & especially with music, people want to see & experience changes.,The same note gets boring. That's why Pac-Man, Mario, Tetris don't thrill me.

[@PanAnning]

Replayed this back in 2019, and I reitate my point - The original Elnard was an OK RPG that you could beat rather quick. Then the localization team decided the game would've been too fun. So not only you need more EXP to level up (which, ironically, makes the max level in the NA version 80 instead of 99) but the enemies give less EXP & Money, every single enemies stats have been increased, and while you only get the LV1-10 stats increase at level up, the other apprentices keep the original Elnard's stats increase, so massively leveling can easily go against you. Not a fan of this game, but it ain't impossible.

[@bobbyo5807]

The way you have to grind just to get started is so freakn hardcore.Think that's hard? Wait till you have to start fighting the other player selects that you didn't choose to play as.Holy 💩.Yea I beat a couple but I put it down after getting spanked enough.Never beat but got pretty far.Definitely the hardest in the SNES RPG library to me

[@nathansmith-ju3pz]

I did beat this game back in the day!

[@Joshhow]

Spoilers ahead for those who haven't played this game. So I also have beat this game. My team was Wilme (I liked the idea of never buying weapons) and Valsu (Elixir is very OP) and yes the grind is real. Then I tried to do a SOLO Wilme playthrough. I made it all the way to past Melenam before I gave up from a severe lack of grinding. One day I will complete that challenge.... maybe, idk if it is even possible. Edit : my question to you. How do you deal with Romus? I know the Flute is available, but I enjoy just beating him down.

[@sagepirotess6312]

I never thought this game was hard, let alone hatdest. Quite easy. But cant run through it. Need to grind, what i dont mind doing.

[@davehayford4565]

I beat the 7th saga years ago using Wilme and the human. It was easily the toughest rpg I've ever beaten.

[@beniplays25]

I only played this because SNES drunk said it was the hardest game and it isnt that hard you just gotta use the items

[@n3vascared501]

I beat 7th Saga as a kid bc I didn’t have many games. Few options.

[@DoctorSledgehammer]

Ha you also have a youtube channel and it actually has some interesting stuff on it. This takes me back over 20 years. I always had mixed feelings for this game. I never considered this game to be difficult, I always felt like it was as you said, a game that demands a lot of grinding. I remember my brother beating this game because he picked a better character than I did and because he decided to endure all the grinding.

[@JasonGravesPoser]

Yeah some of the characters aren't worth picking for sure. I actually restarted about 2 hours in because I didn't like playing as the elf girl

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

Not true. He won cause he grinded, that's for sure. I have beaten this game with each character. They all have strengths and weaknesses. Lejes may have the most weaknesses, but I beat the game at a lower level with him than as Kamil.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

@@JasonGravesPoser, That's ridiculous. The only characters I had trouble starting with were the priest & the robot. The priest has hardly any way to attack. The robot is so slow, many monsters have their way with him. If you couldn't play as Esuna (arguably the baddest of the bunch), you probably don't know how to play RPGs. Edit: For clarification, any character is worth playing if you want the challenge. Lejes is totally designed wrong, but fun...cause it is challenge & different. Valsu makes the game drag on, but if you don't mind slow battles you'll be almost unbeatable. Esuna is the opposite where she can wipe out enemies quickly. Kamil is the jack of all trades. Many think he is weak, but he just doesn't have anything unique about him. He does get all the healing, a good variety of attack magic, as well as weapons & armor. Olvan is actually very similar to Kamil, but less spells. Only some fire spells. Wilme is a,great character if you just want great physical stats and don't want magic. Even playing alone, him have F Bird is useful enough to hit all enemies (making him have a better time than Valsu). But he will be weak against magic. Lux is also strong physically, but slow. He arguably has the most powerful spell, as there is a 3rd level lighting spell, while others have 2nd as highest. (Of course that helps computer characters more.) But he is slow & noisy. They are all playable, usable, viable. The game is a puzzle, and it can be figured out with whichever character is used.

[@DoctorSledgehammer]

​@@CurlyFromTheSwirly Not really my issue here, but I have to respond. No need for personal insults man. Now he won't respond to you because, as a content creator, you should never ever engage with negative comments. So instead of having a cool discussion on the finer points of the game, you burned the bridge. He has an entire channel dedicated to playing and reviewing all SNES RPGs, so he does have a fair idea on how to play RPGs. That being said, I think my brother beat the game with Kamil, but was also fairly good with Tetujin (whatever his name was). He is slow, but I remember him packing a punch. Personally, I was always picking the priest character, because I wanted a Gandalf/Dumbledore type of spell caster to play with. By the time I got into that castle dungeon, I was getting creamed. Now you may say that this is fair, as I was a stupid kid, maybe 11 or 12 years old back then and maybe I should have spent 20 to 30 hours grinding, but that is stupid in it by itself. When a game forces you to just trigger encounters for like 20 to 50 hours until you have enough attributes to progress further in the game, then its either a shit game or an extremely unbalanced game. No one will convince me otherwise! And again, be civil mate. Just talk to him like you would if you approached him in the streets.

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

@@DoctorSledgehammer, Well it's not really a personal insult. I don't know him (personally) or even his channel. But he picked what is probably the best character to play the game with and got creamed. That says a lot. Maybe he got unlucky and gave up too easily. I can't help if people are hypersensitive and don't want discussion. But I do respect his dedication to take this time and review these games. As to the game, my friend had this game. I borrowed it and I liked the idea of Valsu. I didn't play through, and I remember it was difficult. I tried again as Kamil and took Olvan as my companion. (Probably not the best combo, but not bad. I figured we both can fight & have healing.) Later I went back and bought the game. I have played through with all 7 characters. Even with Valsu and Lux (that's the robot). They are both hard to begin with. But nothing is your fault. The game is beyond unforgiving. It cheats. This game is a piece of coal. It could have been a diamond, but wasn't polished enough. Still I enjoy it. My peeves with it are how unbalanced the characters are having bad stats & having to reset at level up (or pay later) enemies that don't let you run away, and not just trying to escape battle, they will flat out jump far ahead to get me as I walk the computer wants to beat you, it doesn't do random damage in battle, it picks numbers around your HP, and will intentionally do 90 damage if you have 90 HP (even when all the other attacks were way less)

[@johngrotegut6454]

I've beaten this game, but it is stupid hard. When I replay it now, I always play an easy mode hack. It's almost enjoyable that way.

[@diogenesdacynic8656]

The original sekisoulsbourne

[@alex_pearl]

I never thought of it that way, but I kinda feel you.

[@Oroan]

Beat it using my Dads save with Kamil and the priest 28 years ago.

[@thecodemachine]

Legendary @hcbailly mentioned.

[@Selgeron]

I beat this game back in the 90s by taping the left button so that the menu never came up and an auto controller to spam the A button. Just don't do it before you fight the pretender apprentice on the throne :D

[@nickmarinan9041]

Dude i literally did that same exact thing with a turbo controller!

[@EhrenLoudermilk]

Shots fired

[@DezorianGuy]

This game has one of the best osts.

[@derektafoya1152]

Gaaaaaad . I remember the grind ... it was excruciating ... but the end game boss going down baaarely, at the very tail end of my resources . I was 12 ? I think . Good times

[@petervenkman8835]

very fun like every rpg on snes ever

[@evancoffland19]

I solo’d that whole game.

[@thomaswillis388]

I actually finally beat it last October. 25 years of trying... I love the game But the ending is underwhelming lol.

[@SerpentineDeity]

Yeah, I look up "snarky video game content creators" every other week!

[@muntdouken9841]

The thing that drove me mad is I how I can spend so many hours grinding and still not have enough money for some of the best gear near the end. Also in the defeated 7th saga crew. From what I’ve heard of Paladins Quest your enjoyment will largely depend on how well you comprehend leveling your magic skills

[@JasonGravesPoser]

Yeah I didn't buy any gear on the last continent either, died too often to save that kind of gold

[@toml.9937]

I am one of those that has beaten this one, so I tip my hat to you sir! Me and my bud Valsu, with his 2 attack spells...

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

Yeah, I am totally convinced you don't know how to play RPGs if it took you 2 hours to beat Lejes. He doesn't have enough MP to last that long. Which means that on your turn, you are sitting there over thinking what to do. With most apprentice duals it's increase defense increase attack heal begin attack It also doesn't hurt to boost your speed early either With Lejes he keeps trying to lower your defense, so you feel you need to keep raising it. That's the cautious way... which works. You could have also just raised your offense and beat him in about 2 rounds. But I would not try that strategy with Lux as he is too slow. And it may not work with Esuna or Valsu having a lower strength.

[@procow2274]

I have sorry :(

[@NoahTheHuman]

this is some pretty tasty stuff

[@NeptuneKnives]

Intelligence

[@AndyGamezoldschool]

I beat it twice to see if the ending changed. Don't beat it twice :/

[@lordtullus9942]

I have never played the 7th saga and probably don't mean to. But good on you, Jason Edit: I don't like level grinding, but sometimes I don't find it tedius or boring. It certainly isn't fun. I can put up with it every now and then, but there are some games where I cannot be bothered to level grind every hour.

[@notyoursavior78]

Haha this game is fucked up. I never beat it without game genie. That last place sucked. That handegg music at the beginning, how'd you sneak that in. I love it though. I still post as a character from this on Gamefaqs. All the music is extremely good. This game is often literal torture to play though if the wrong apprentice gets a rune (based off that programming glitch). It was called Elnard in Japan. Should have called it 7th Hell here.

[@Danny-jr9pk]

You're AVGN video is so bad. You think he's a gaming poser just because he has an old setup and doesn't recognize modern games. Doesn't that mean just he prefers things old school and is just having trouble getting with the times?

[@JasonGravesPoser]

James should stick to making videos about things he likes, he tuned out videogames a long time ago, both retro and modern

[@Danny-jr9pk]

@@JasonGravesPoser What do you mean he tuned out of videogames he still plays them and enjoys them, your evidence that proves he isn't is so bad.

[@hexogramd8430]

@@Danny-jr9pk bruh why the fuck did you go on this newest video to type this. such an incel

[@Danny-jr9pk]

@@hexogramd8430 How does that make me an incel?

[@landocalrisean2518]

@@JasonGravesPoser Your such a dumbass he still plays modern games! Why are you acting like you know him personally! He fuckin loves was even obsessed with Breath of the Wild and Super Mario 3D world as hes mentioned on mike and james monday. He could of easily made reviews of these games and got a million of views if he wanted to. Its honestly so lame that you'd try to tell a man he should retire when you have no idea what he feels and wants to do. And you called him a "Gaming Poser" do you think your special because you think you like video games more than him? Grow the fuck up buddy

[@Alianger]

Just get the Redux hack for it.

[@JasonGravesPoser]

nah

[@Alianger]

@@JasonGravesPoser if you want to have fun instead of grind i mean, which is the point here after all. Otherwise you might as well do something productive with that time.

[@iwanaGoFast2010]

You think this game is hard try the 8th saga.

[@CosmicCosmo1]

I beat it but only by learning about how the game functions, watching some speedruns, and by using an emulator to speed up the grindy bits. I certainly wasn't able to get far on the original Snes when I was a kid. Totally unforgiving game. I think there is one part after you get the crystals taken from you where the game is literally impossible if you are underleveled. Simply brutal.

[@TheBaioken]

I played through it, but didn't even catch that thing about being reborn as the bad guy in the future. But how does that make sense. you defeated the bad guy in the past and get reincarnated as him 5000years later? Hmm...

[@CurlyFromTheSwirly]

You don't get reincarnated as the bad guy. Let me go over this. There was good guy Soro fighting bad guy Gorsia. Then there was good guy Lemele fighting bad guy Garisio. Then Gorisia came from the past and kills Lemele. He then takes Lemele's form & place. He lies to 7 apprentices and sends them to get the runes. The character you play as winds up sent back in time, defeats Gorsia but dies in the process. Saro was supposed to be reborn as his decendent Lemele (if you didn't catch that they look almost identical), but instead puts your soul into the body of Lemele. Then the followers of Saro scribe all the events down on that tablet, so that you will be prepared for Gorsia in the future.