The Theranos Story: how WSJ's John Carreyrou revealed fraud & deception in "BAD BLOOD" E828

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WSJ investigative reporter John Carreyrou shares how he broke Theranos story & reveals its staggering scope of fraud & deception in his new book, "BAD BLOOD: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup"

[@jessicavessica8980]

I realize I'm not the only one who thought this guy interrupted John Carreyrou too much! Carreyrou is a humble, calm, guy who clearly has a lot of integrity, let him tell the story man!

[@horaciocapanelli-soto4710]

Interrupted him waaaay to much

[@tiffsaver]

In landmark cases like this, they always tend to bring out the best and worst in all of us. In the case of John Carreyrou, THE BEST.

[@Mr118blackie]

HOST MAN Shut up !! Thanks for poisoning this important issue with your giant ego YOU ARENT THE INTERESTING ONE!!! hate “ personalities” and FYI you don’t have to yell pasty boy there’s a MIC

[@BlueCollarBeerSnob]

that host loves to show everyone how much he thinks he knows….

[@bpositive9267]

He’s not just interrupting John, but doing so with a “yeah, yeah, yeah, I know” and actually trying to quickly finish John’s sentences. Very arrogant AND RUDE!

[@arbeeex]

Amazing! This guy says he has been doing interviews for 25 years yet he does not let his guest answer questions without trying to provide the answer himself and talking over the guest's attempt to answer. AMATEUR behavior

[@goconquer123]

and what is with the pill-rolling, what meds is he on..

[@thegreengagardener]

Absolutely awful...why Carreyrou agreed to the interview baffles me...but when you're on a book tour...

[@helpyourcattodrive]

He is as annoying af

[@Maserbeams]

Carreyrou is very informative, let him speak, stop interrupting.

[@nycphillie]

The interviewer was horrible.

[@michael-4k4000]

Give me a break. This whole story is fiction 💀

[@malibustacy3606]

@@michael-4k4000 Sexy Mike

[@kiely4561]

Yeah the interviewer was really annoying, especially when he was undermining the importance of how impactful an actual scientific break through of less invasive ways of drawing blood would be.

[@CharlesChoMD]

As a physician who take care of sick patients everyday, I truly believe she should go to jail. It was not a mistake but intentional fraud. She may not intended to harm patients but as so much of medical therapy is rely on blood test results, she may have indirectly harmed (if not kill) many people. Example: imaging kidney transplant patient who their drug level is monitored. If the drug level is low which requires drug dosage to go up, but if test were falsely showed too high level and doctor subsequently decrease drug (instead of increase). That patient will lose the transplanted kidney and subsequently will end up on dialysis and die. There are so many more serious conditions we as physicians face everyday and manage according to the blood test. As CEO of blood testing company, it is impossible that she didn't know about those danger of false test results, but she went anyway to hide it purely out of greed. In my opinion, she NEVER had any good intention but greed for money and power, no matter what it cost (including thousands of people's lives that will be lost from her greed). The greed of Wall street like Bernie Madoff is much less of crime, at least he didn't intentionally set up to "kill" or "sacrifice" people's lives. Elizabeth Holmes, intentionally setup the company to harm people for her greed. I say "intentionally set up to harm" because of example I showed above. There is no way she didn't know her false blood test results would cause harm to many people but she went on many years hiding, so there is definitely intention to harm patients. For that matter, I really do feel she should go jail.

[@penelopedinkledongs7178]

...It's not over, yet. They may very well be facing possible jail time further down the road...

[@sf6555]

Agreed totally

[@elizabethblackwell6242]

When you hear the demo process, there's no other conclusion to draw but fraud.

[@jamesdewer]

Thankfully their drug panels were limited in scope.

[@CharlesChoMD]

@Tur tle Work in LA.

[@kathyk4504]

My five year old son had just had his third heart surgery around the time of the Theranos hype, and the constant blood draws were such a nightmare that I considered flying from Chicago to California to try them out. I prayed they would be in more Walgreens stores across the country soon, but then the company began to quickly unravel. In our case, an inaccurate result could very easily have had devastating, life-threatening or fatal consequences. She is an absolute demon for putting people in this kind of danger.

[@usermc1234]

How horrible would it have been for you! I hope that your child is coping ok

[@JetFire9]

@Bonehead Truckers Not the time or place to pick up dudes

[@marshapieroni6677]

Exactly and I hope your son is now enjoying life

[@jujijiju6929]

Hope your kid is doing well now

[@kathyk4504]

@@jujijiju6929 Thank you so much for saying that. He’s 15 and is doing well!

[@tahirisaid2693]

Books are vessels that contain all the information we need to learn/unlearn and remember. I used to be financially depressed until I read a book that made me realized that the secret to making a million is making better investments.

[@florianmadison]

Financial depression is a type of depression that is a severe drop in GDP: It is characterized by massive job losses, widespread bankruptcies, and simply not knowing what to invest in with your money.

[@tahirisaid2693]

What I think everyone need is an adviser, who can help you get in and out of any investment at any time and you'd sure be in Profit. With this I feel anyone can basically achieve financial freedom..

[@tahirisaid2693]

Credits to *ROCHELLE DUNGCA-SCHREIBER,* she saw me through the process. You can glance her name up on the internet and verify her yourself. she has years of financial market experience

[@zuesblue1422]

The interviewer was extremely annoying with the interruptions, sound effects, and even his questions that add no value to the story - very annoying. However, the WSJ writer and author is a great story teller and has an amazing story to tell. Fascinating journalism!

[@JonnM]

‘Bad Blood’ is one of the best and most engaging books I’ve read in years. It reads more like a thriller novel than a non fiction factual book. John Carreyrou is an outstanding investigative journalist.

[@startups]

JonnM Couldn’t after more! It’s a must-read!

[@markhoffman2309]

Jason, you consistently interview quality guests with very worthwhile insights and facts to share. STOP SPEAKING FOR THEM. Ask questions, or if you must, offer commentary on a tangent you feel they passed over. I wish you had read this before you interviewed Carreyrou.

[@jasoncalacanislive]

my interview style is to keep the have a dynamic discussion.... not for everyone. if you want one short question and nothing else go listen to the NPR interview (which is boring AF!).

[@bluest1524]

You can keep things dynamic without projecting an answer at your subject before allowing them to answer. That just reminds me of someone's petulant narcissist mother.

[@jasoncalacanislive]

you should do that on your podcast!

[@dantanguyen]

As someone who has read "Bad Blood", I thought the interview style worked really well, since you added context from the book as a preface to the question. And Carreyrou was able to elaborate on what he had already written/reported.

[@jasoncalacanislive]

Dan Nguyen that was my idea... 👍🏻

[@neanda]

very interesting story, but the interviewer could of stopped interrupting so much, so he could let Carreyrou follow his thoughts

[@MetalAnimeGames]

I finished reading the book and the only thing I have to ask is why no-one is talking about the 'thug-ish' behaviour of all the Theranos lawyers ? Flat out threatening people, stalking etc... i am not familiar with the whole judicial system in the US but that was insanely horrible on top of the whole fraud actions of the company

[@tyn6211]

One name. David Boies. He's the OG of legal attack dogs.

[@londoncuppa1963]

Hillary Clinton's laywers

[@daysjours]

Ty N except that he rolled over in front of the Supreme Court justices in Gore v Bush. Utterly pathetic.

[@Football__Junkie]

Smile Direct Club is doing the same thing right now. I think they have similar VC funding and similar tactics to shut down naysayers and competitors through lawsuits.

[@pennyo6868]

Michael Cohen

[@spankyx8606]

This interviewer needs to stop talking.

[@Ribby00]

Agreed. He's trying to engage with him a little, but it's just annoying

[@rox3232]

And had he just learned the word ‘deranged’? He uses it over and over and over .....

[@dcabral00]

@@rox3232 LOL! I was thinking the same thing. You can make a drinking game of it.

[@rosemarieward1738]

He needs to cut back on the coffee!

[@Chris-ul6qz]

Completely agree, it’s like he can’t handle somebody else being the centre of attention. It’s so annoying

[@Nfnf889]

John did an amazing job by not getting frustrated by consistently getting interrupted for no good reason. Why is the interviewer just making random sounds. Let the man speak, we here to listen to John. I don’t understand how interviewers don’t understand the one thing their job is.

[@thegreengagardener]

The interviewer is ridiculous and self-serving...I could have listened to JC for hours without Jason's input...dreadful. Should find a new gig...

[@michaelpatrickmonahan1873]

The guy doing the interview is BUM . He should consider career change.

[@tarag7292]

​@@michaelpatrickmonahan1873 Yeah, the interviewer is DERANGED. 😂

[@harvey2609]

You saved me writing exactly the same thing. "Were there bagels?"

[@redwoods7370]

This is why whistleblowers in all fields need to be protected by the law. God bless this man. Wish the host hadn't interrupted him so much.

[@wvrjl]

Yes, me too. It was increadibly rude and frustrating. And for what? Random comments and sounds that added NOTHING to the story.

[@eesynopsis7393]

Interviewer, you seem like a nice guy, please no offense but you constantly interrupting the interviewee is incredibly frustrating to listen to. I understand some back and forth conversation is obviously necessary, but a good amount of your commentary just stops the thought-flow and makes it difficult to stay on track with what the interviewee is trying to say. I appreciate your work and what you do, just some constructive criticism....Thank you

[@Chalk89]

I was wondering if my generally annoyed demeanor was rearing its head with your point. He would talk for 10 seconds and then boom, interruption. Ask a simple question and let John speak.

[@ASDFGHJKLtierns]

kind of agree but also he asks really in-depth questions

[@rabidbigdog]

Yup, impossible to listen to. I gave up. There are other interviews with Carreyrou that can be found that a much easier to listen to.

[@jhluling]

@@rabidbigdog if he says deranged one more time I'm going to lose it!

[@lalaland1258]

OMG agree, please keep it low

[@Bluetangg]

The DeVos family lost $100 million on their investments in Theranos. So not a total bad outcome.

[@lindamaschek1631]

LOL!

[@SB-sv5sk]

Tax write off lol

[@anngarnsey3622]

Even better, Rupert Murdoch lost 125,000,000! Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

[@starcatcher3691]

Lisa W full of hate. Oh you have issues. Seriously

[@ac4108]

It's a shame people like you breath... You are truly ugly inside...

[@jitkablahakova3073]

Carreyrou is awesome. Incredible journalism. The interviewer is annoying though.

[@TheMaleficent1]

I had no idea that Holmes was basically a sociopath. Thought the scandal was solely about greed. Now I understand why it is being made into a movie. Just bought the book.

[@johanharryfrancois5222]

iamdebster fy

[@TheMaleficent1]

No thanks

[@Asyss_Complex]

iamdebster How is the book? I want to buy it, but I want to make sure that it’ll be a worth reading.

[@shawndamichelle639]

Inariel CT I’m currently reading the book. About a third of the way through and it is outstanding.

[@nycphillie]

When is the movie coming?

[@luukeluketer1024]

In a Seinfeld episode , Jerry's dating a girl who always finishes his sentences .........You seem like that girl in this interview..........

[@warpnin3]

Elisabeth Holmes seems like a Seinfeld girlfriend character. The one who could get everything done. Remember how when Jerry was caught speeding she talked the officer out of giving Jerry a ticket?

[@reinormand]

I read the book and watched many interviews. But this was the best interview with John. He deserves our gratitude. Great American.

[@jasoncalacanislive]

thanks for saying that Reinaldo -- you made my day!

[@Bluetangg]

It’s the longest interview.

[@verlinswarey507]

Reinaldo Normand-I agree

[@dori-]

You mean the most horrible interview how could you stomach the interviewers constant interruptions and stop facial expressions and creepy mouth gestures 🤮🤢

[@wvrjl]

They don't just do it for your benefit. They live for getting the next good scoop.

[@richardfrancis5406]

This is what a real journalist looks like....

[@justinpfortier]

we wish more were like him!

[@HockeyVictory66]

His book was great. Holmes was more of a monster than I ever imagined. She deserves to be in jail for as long as possible. The judge needs to make an example of her and send her away for the full 20 years she is eligible for.

[@startups]

An amazing book for sure!

[@epi965]

I wish but unfortunately i dont believe she will get much jail time. At most 1-3 years is my guess

[@BBB-rd2qi]

@@epi965 - Your comment was spot on and aged well, unfortunately.

[@marshapieroni6677]

The judge was too lenient on her. I suppose he was smitten too

[@nickl5658]

Yeah but biology is not like computer coding. There are hard facts in biology that you cannot change no matter how many hours of hard work you put in. Medical test are not like computer software where you can ship a wonky product early and patch it with software up dates over the next few years.

[@sciencecompliance235]

Nick L Agree with the second part, disagree with the first part. There are hard facts in computer science and logic that make some things possible in software development and others not. There are also some things that are really difficult to do with conventional computers that would take more development time than any investor would be willing to commit to. You could possibly have a blood test machine that didn't have ALL the functionality of a finished product but through clever analytical tricks implemented through software updates improved the device's functionality over time.

[@atf300t]

I don't think that the outcome would be much different if it was a software start-up. Any successful start-up needs more than just wishful thinking. What was her great idea? To make blood tests simpler and less expensive? That sounds great but isn't it something that all testing laboratories are trying to achieve for many decades? If a software start-up promised to produce a much better version of some software that other companies have produced for decades, I am pretty sure that it would be a total failure. To be successful, you need a new idea, so you don’t directly compete with well-established corporations (at least, not initially).

[@yanmintao8810]

How courageous to fight for justice and protect the general public! My husband quit Theranos when he thought it was totally wrong doing of Elizabeth.

[@meredithheath5272]

A lot of credit should be given to Schultz's grandson, Tyler, who began to blow the whistle on Theranos. Tyler was extremely intimidated by Holmes, Balwani, stalkers for them, and their attorneys. Tyler now endures being ostracized by his grandfather, if I'm not mistaken. KUDOS to that brave young man!! - and Carreyrou.

[@missmodern]

So Elizabeth Holmes is free and Julian Assange is in prison. What kind of crazy world do we live in?

[@ravishoul1432]

What kind? There are approximately 14 types of crazy world. The kind we live in is the 8th type.

[@AwakenedAvocado]

Shes not free anymore

[@1000huzzahs]

drink when he says "deranged" Seriously though the book is great.

[@jasoncalacanislive]

sooooo DEranged

[@diffugerenives]

If you played that drinking game from his previous interview, you'd end up in a coma.

[@turtle42387]

Riff Chick, to be fair, if you read the book, deranged is nice compared to what I thought of her. The book was unbelievable. I have never read anything like it before.

[@Bluetangg]

Used inaccurately. She is not insane. She’s not hearing voices etc. What’s the word for immoral? Oh yeah, or lacking a conscience?

[@bitlysoulfull]

i'm dying to get my hands on it!

[@axekicker78]

Dude, just cause you have a mic doesn't mean you have to keep talking over the guest.

[@webslinger48]

I was amazed at how much resistance there was when Theranos first began to be exposed. They were so entrenched and so many successful people had been ensnared by the promise of the tech and didn't want to have their eyes opened. People need to realize that things aren't always what they seem.

[@jasoncalacanislive]

For years i kept hearing from other investors that Holmes wanted to raise money but she wouldn't let people see the technology --- which is insane. fairly clear to me that she got in over her head.

[@pigknickers]

Amazing isn't it? And right now, Mr Elon Musk is doing another fraud (taking taxpayers' money to fund TSLA which cannot ever make a profit and is now killing people with bad software) and similarly certain people will not recognise this fact. I give him less than 12 months before it's out and known though. Human deception is so fascinating and lies at the heart of what you can do with language.

[@bruceprober1866]

This is excellent investigative journalism.

[@atrocchia]

A 19 y/o who drops out of undergraduate studies is going to revolutionize medicine. Am I the only one who smells the bulls---?

[@punbishal5874]

It’s a common sense and you got a good sense better than those so called influential people who actually believed her to change medical field for better. Who in the right mind would invest millions on a drop out student who doesn’t even have a under grad degree in medicine. I wouldn’t even invest a dime in her fraud project.

[@pennyo6868]

Many people were invested, from the salaried employees, to the top of the ladder. In matters of livelihood, ego and millions invested, the risks are obvious.

[@marytrujillo8433]

Any seasoned Lab tech would've walked in the building , would have seen what was going on, a definitely would have called bullshit!

[@juliusebola9712]

@@marytrujillo8433 I am a lab tech in the petroleum industry and I can assure you fraud is rampant in this field. There is enormous pressure from clients and management to doctor results or even flat out lie.

[@justinpfortier]

perhaps too much perfume of optimism?

[@jimjames1920]

Carreyrou----Finally a real "journalist" who understands you actually have to get out from behind the desk and DO THE WORK ! Better the Woodward and Bernstein.

[@gergemini2993]

considering he works for a main stream publisher like WSJ he is exceptional. he has the integrity of John Pilger

[@volvol1]

Bad Blood is a great book. A must read for everyone. I hope that Elizabeth and Sunny go to jail for a long time. I came away with great respect for you, John, and the WSJ. I was even very impressed with the judgment of Murdock in rebuffing Elizabeth's four times when she tried to get him to kill the story -- and this was so even though Murdock had unwisely invested $125 million in Theranos. Murdock said he trusted his reporters and editors. Pretty amazing.

[@startups]

volvol1 Thanks Volvo! We appreciate it and you tuning in!

[@marshapieroni6677]

I had hoped that she would be there a long time also, but she got a measly 10 years

[@sharthakghosh970]

Let the man speak, don't constantly butt in

[@rosemarieward1738]

This blood thing reminds me of a 1969 Episode of Hawaii Five-O that was about a female charlatan that said she could diagnose disease with a droo of blood on a piece of paper. She was booked Danno. Year one, episode 19. Look it up.

[@danielyoung6630]

HARRY MARKOPOLOUS remember him? Almost 30 years ago he tried to warn about MADOFF and no one listened to him!

[@sskoog]

Though not a mathematician, this guy actually reminds me quite a bit of Markopolos. Same shy, no-frills, matter-of-fact demeanor. Very precise.

[@anngarnsey3622]

Harry Markopolous is one of the most ethical Americans who has ever lived. I love the man.

[@wyswygsommer2769]

I wondered how a 19 years old kid, college dropped out can convince so many big names. Now i see, it is because of the family connection, one after another investor jumps on the train.

[@lvgeeco7121]

They drank the kool aid

[@marishkaspirit]

There were at least 2 huge red flags from the beginning: as he said, she was medical college drop out that discovered ground breaking technology....pretty much a contradiction right there, but ok, let's just assume she was a super genius, so people weren't as suspicious. But her idea was ridiculous from the start: she was basically claiming that with a prick of blood from finger they can perform over 200 tests, so more than you would get from a tube of blood from vein. The blood from vein is different from the tip of your finger. She was telling an impossible story from the beginning.

[@michaelfuchs1467]

The reddest and brightest warning light that should have told everyone that she had no clue whatsoever about what she was 'inventing', wasn't the finger prick blood analysis but her 'autodiagnosis - autocure patch' where nano-needles was to penetrate the skin 'to analyze the blood and delivering drugs' (doh!) It's not possible to describe on how many levels of stupid this 'idea' was resting but anyone with even a tiny bit of engineering, biochemistry, immunology or ANY relevant real-world experience should immediately be able to tell that this was just pure science fiction and no amount of money or work sunk into it could make it even close to a reality with today's technology - which is what Elizabeth was playing on. Silicon Valley 'dropout syndrome' doesn't apply to biochemistry, physics or medicine - only the software sector and to some lesser degree some related hardware might 'revolutionize' our lives - like an internet connected refrigerator does or a tamagotchi. This was BIOCHEMISTRY and a 19 yo who had NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER. This 'idea' of Elizabeth is so far fetched and ridiculous on so many levels that it would have been rejected from any decent science fiction story. If nothing else, when she's stating as part of her CV that she made complete blueprints for a 'time machine' when she was a kid... Anyone listening to such BS and still forking out hard cash to develop her 'technology' has no clue about medicine, physics or biochemistry in any close to realistic setting, even if she used then fashionable buzzwords like 'micro-fluidics' which admittedly was very hot ten - fifteen years ago, especially combined with 'optical tweezers' and 'lab on a chip'. Didn't anyone even think about 'small' things like the immunological response from having 'nano-needles' constantly poking through the skin, obvious risk of infection and sepsis, the bulk of the 'active ingredients' in the system with their buffers, the bulk of the electronics to support the 'lab-on-chip', the extreme danger for this 'technology' being hacked 'just for fun'? This 'technology' wasn't even suitable for a decent sci-fi novel since the idea of 'automatic diagnostics and treatment' is so old by now and still there are hardly any advances within this field due to the complexity of medicine and biochemistry. That is no advances compared to fields of science where technology isn't directly limited by mundane things like biochemical factors - like in MRI diagnostic technology. The day when we can securely reprogram a cell with predictable outcome, by using photons for example instead of chemicals - THEN we might have a 'smartwatch' which can diagnose and cure us if necessary. What Elizabeth patented was equivalent to a 'good-spirit accelerator with integrated jujutron injection modulator'... With Bluetooth. What puzzles me the most isn't Club Seniles willingness to invest in her childish fantasies, but university professors 'dropping out' of respectable positions at respectable institutions to follow her like lemmings to the abyss and thereby acting as her enablers, helping fleecing investors and scamming very ill patients. This story is so freaking horrible on so many levels that I hardly can describe how I feel about this finally being thoroughly debunked but still reading about how Elizabeth and certain lawyers still are 'convinced' that if they only had 5 more years (and of course more investor money to burn) 'her' technology would have changed the world. Really funny thing is that the iteration of 'her' technology that attracted the most investors ('Edison' and the 'Minilab') was nothing more than old bread in a new, smaller and ridiculously expensive box. Nothing new or revolutionary at all but a blatant copy and poor attempt to miniaturize existing technology with senseless restrictions on the engineers. This is exactly how most scammers operate in the Kickstarter realm: promising something revolutionary that will help poor people in Africa or sweaty polar bears, and then deliver some poor implementation of existing technology bought off-shelf in China and put into a new 3D-printed shell - if delivering anything at all. First time I read something about Elizabeth's 'invention' and Theranos, and then looked her up in the patent database, I just quit reading halfway through. This was just crap. Only many years later I realized that this had actually become something that investors were sinking their money in - and not only small-time investors in the normal Indiegogo scam sphere where new 'revolutionary' technology, promising to make drinking water from air (for free of course) is scamming gullible and less educated people from their money while telling them that they are helping the third world or something of a similar nature. The level of stupidity, gullibility, naivety and also greed in this sphere is to me totally mind blowing. 🙄 I hope that especially Ramesh Balwani will get a very long and rough stretch out of this. Elizabeth did actually believe in herself and her ideas due to some mental condition while Balwani was in it for the money only, effectively running a high level scam operation. Him parroting scientific sounding terms that had no relevance or even existed is proof enough that he was a ruthless con artist. The way he treated employees at Theranos makes him deserve at least 5 additional years on top of his coming sentence for fraud and embezzlement.

[@pepefrog2278]

Hindsight is 20/20 you say that now everything is expose but where were you in the beginning

[@lisamarielund6292]

@@michaelfuchs1467 Excellent post.

[@michaelfuchs1467]

@@pepefrog2278 In another lab.

[@GrumpyCat-mw5xl]

When She started was 19 and wasn’t even in medical school from my understanding. She was an undergrad biochemistry major or something like that. The lack of knowledge at that phase is astounding and the lack of wisdom even more astounding. There is a reason doctors have to go through a process and have a license and even then people can get out of line. Imagine what kind of world we would live in if anyone could just decide one day hey I think I want to be a dentist and work on teeth. Would you trust that standard care, and the accountability of the practioner? Basically Elizabeth Holmes had no accountability and blank checks being written to her until it finally all fell apart. Now it’s our justice system that will have to hold her accountable.

[@GenXersJustWalkItOff]

The book is amazing: rich with compelling scenes, information, intriguing detail... They truly DO just scratch the surface here, in this interview. I couldn't stop reading until I got to the end... definition of a "page turner."

[@lynnross3990]

The book and her recent trial has caused a form of mass addiction. I can't be the only one.

[@mariojohnson4695]

Buying this book today, the ratings are great.

[@mtfine]

So many enabled this fraud.

[@caladr9367]

mtfine Yes but the biggest enablers were Holmes and the board. Both parties should be in prison for life.

[@neverloosehope4233]

Indians from Andhra were the biggest conspirators.

[@jojogeneral2928]

Exactly! We should be talking about these big name enablers who helped to make this possible for a deranged middle class girl with the Messiah Complex...

[@stannisbaratheon8921]

Boies...what a creep.

[@user-xr3rb6pn9m]

@OhYeah? the same liberal media exposed her in the end.

[@user-cg9ry5id5v]

I've been reading the book, it's great and draws you in.

[@gergemini2993]

god bless you JOHN in this age of "criminalisation of journalism"

[@andrehenriquebotelho]

Would certainly like a second hour on this one. Human fallacies never fail to amaze me.

[@dattebenforcer]

Gynocentrism is more than just a human fallacy.

[@jasoncalacanislive]

i could have done three hours!!!

[@craskam]

.... Don't get me esscited over here, JC!

[@nateportney672]

Jason Calacanis hi Jason, I enjoy your insight and also meeting you prior few times in bay area and competitions. One thing not mentioned on Holmes was that she caused her employee to commit suicide and also another patient that relied on cholesterol results I think later had heart attack because he thought vitals were good, hence have serious criminal liabilities. The amazing rise was from her early connections blindsighted by prestige and her pedigree and board would have wavered in misjudgment is epically dumbfounding. Also as a bionengineering doctorate who patented dispensing technologies in health tech arena, felt it was scam to others my senior years ago, it's good to know intuition was correct. And also as the reporter described, you would need really advanced microfluidics lab on chip to just pull off electrophoresis, much less an Elisa or number of assays from tiny sample of raw blood sample. Her vanity and thrust into enormous network handed her an unforgivable test of morality she could not pass. Also the qualifications lack thereof was a giveaway that it didn't stack up. But vanity and ego was too much. Do you think silicon valley will want her made as an example or give her a pass? Maybe VCs will look back at this as a footnote and say 'I need to see your tech in action, so you don't try to Holmes me'. Cheers.

[@jojogeneral2928]

Precisely because we are that. Humans.

[@nottt5203]

The interviewer should have interrupted Carreyrou less, the Mark Zuckerberg tidbit and the nanotainer being diluted so much that the FDA also did not approve such a minuscule amount for a test (I think?...I mean I don't know because he was interrupted midsentence) However, good interview...I'm 45% of the way through the book and the interviewer read the book and asked deeper questions than other interviewers asked him.

[@lorenaelizabethmontielvies563]

The best interview about the book Bad Blood. So natural, easy to follow.

[@startups]

LORENA ELIZABETH MONTIEL VIESCA Thanks Lorena. John CarreyRou was such a pleasure to have.

[@marthaluciacepeda6059]

I’m in the process of getting as much information as possible about the case for my microbiology class, and found out this podcast. It was torture watching it. The host couldn’t stop remarking each and every comment from the guest, never stopped interrupting … and how many times does he have to use the word “deranged” during the interview? I’m not a native English speaker, but even I know that there are many words that can describe Holmes behavior (unless there’s some sort of drinking game involved). The magnificent storytelling capability of Carreyrou kept me going and he delivered. Please let the guest talk and help your audience to understand the story. Thank you!

[@spookyboo22]

Congratulations John on the verdict. Keep up the great work

[@meio4744]

I'm guessing that Elizabeth Holmes had zip. Easy blood tests are such a business opportunity that if it was doable for a 19 year old noob it would have been done already.

[@saeedaali5552]

We literally make fools famous -_-

[@brielynn1275]

I remember when this interview came out. Bad Blood is a must read. Carreyrou is a masterful writer and the deep dive is extremely thorough. I cannot believe how long it's been to have this case heard....Aug 2021...grab the popcorn!

[@dcamron46]

I Agree, the host needs to stop interrupting...he's a little too casual, this interview could've been fantastic if he learns to adapt to his guest. This guest is high quality, let him tell the stories.

[@ulisesbarbosajr6930]

I enjoyed every minute of this. Great job.

[@ctrlsoul]

The whole story gives me a slight faith in Journalism (at least WSJ didn't kill the story albeit the pressure from Elizebeth). Great job John, and this is one the best interviews of him on youtube

[@daysjours]

This is kind of reporting that is purposely all to rare in this country -- where news had become literally entertainment.

[@HalloCasa]

What a story! I still remember the twist episode with her

[@qstunrr]

HalloCasa could you point me in it's direction please?

[@kennethpesaitis3934]

Man has too chill and listen instead of assuming he knows everything.

[@maxmagnusss]

Struggling to watch as the interviewer keep interrupting the book author.

[@HappiDarki]

John Carreyrou gave a great interview despite the overzealousness and constant interruptions of the program host! Let your guests speak, man! Another thing, Ms. Holmes is NOT deranged or in any way mentally challenged or unstable! She's good ole-fashioned trickster, charlatan, fraudster, or, simply put...A con and liar who got twisted up in the game! I am so sick of people trying to equate bad behavior or lack of morality with being mentally ill! She doesn't need therapy and pat on the head--she needs lessons in ethics and to be held accountable for her wrongdoings! The implications of her actions are go way beyond several billionaires losing their investment or several statesmen losing face! Hopefully, she'll go to prison!

[@lisaj5769]

yes but a sociopath is deranged in some sense that she thought that her fraud would last forever, that she'd manage to continue fooling everyone and keep up the facade through manipulation, lies, threats and intimidation when it was a matter of time until things started crumbling and imploding beacuse you can't keep up millions of lies forever and lies of that scale.

[@saved123]

Much better than the first interview. This story is fascinating.

[@renae0007]

Kudos to Rupert Murdoch for not killing the story!

[@Mrs.TJTaylor]

The interviewer prefers to interview himself.

[@daburack]

Fabulous story and book, great guest, superb interview.

[@LunaShimmyDiva]

W.C. Fields pegged Elizabeth Holmes perfectly! “If you can’t dazzle then with brilliance, baffle them with bull”

[@aryrosh4344]

She should have just gone in to politics...easier to be a fraud there.

[@jbalogh01]

And get rich

[@ian_b]

What staggers me is that you can get investment into a company with just an idea and absolutely no evidence you can pull this off. I have an idea for engines that run on water. I have no idea how to do this, and everyone else says it's not possible. Who do I go to for my investment? I mean, the vision is great. No pollution, no oil, water is as cheap as water. With water fuel we can have virtually free, totally green transportation! Please invest your billions. I think this case is interesting because my interpretation is that she didn't intend a fraud; she's an extreme narcissist who then chose fraud when her vision was not possible. Because she probably believed that, given time, she could make her idea work. That by the way is not attempting to excuse her. What amazes me is none of these investors spotted they were dealing with a person who is not right in the head. Nobody checked if the water car is actually running on water fuel. Jaw dropping.

[@lilakmonoke982]

you got it almost right! split water in hydrogen and oxygen and burn the hydrogen to get water back and a lot of energy. that would actually work but who cares if you can still burn oil.

[@jiaconis]

LOL!!

[@ImadeIyamu]

She initially got credibility from early investors who were connected to her family. Everyone else just followed like a herd.

[@donkruuz3903]

Great idea. Where to get the free and stupid money ? Go find a smart young not bad looking blonde preferably with big blue or green eyes. Until you have seen how old grown men can behave so stupidly in front of young women, you won't believe what happened in Theranos can happen again and again. I have seen it happened ... didn't believe my eyes ... but men are men and many old men need that young women's attention to make themselves feel alive, relevant. Sad but true.

[@rick-ry3kj]

@@donkruuz3903 yep, basically a bunch of old over the top simps catering to this broad.

[@jeffreythomasduran1991]

Outstanding interview!!!! Can’t wait for he movie! Finally a reason to give Rupert Murdock ethical 👍

[@jasoncalacanislive]

thanks Jeffrey!

[@julianacruz9024]

I'm waiting for a Netflix movie to this.

[@daysjours]

As Ted Turner once said Murdoch is the devil. I give him no points for doing what is purely what any one of common decency would do.

[@pepefrog2278]

Outstanding review you sure about that

[@edwardmiller6353]

Wow!! Incredibly fascinating interview about a fascinating book! Great job by the interviewer and John!!

[@nikolyevic]

This host is terrible. Good on John Carreyrou for resisting this guy's attempts to oversimplify and blindly condemn.

[@ayshajohn2439]

I need to read this book. I have been watching videos about this story for the past two days. It is shocking what greed and the quest for fame can do to people.

[@eddielee3928]

This needs to be well over 1M views. It should get there after the movie is out. Great job by all.

[@ketevana11]

I have just finished the book. Great job, Jonh Carreyrou!

[@jennnjennjen]

why does this interviewer keep cutting him off it seems so rude

[@tonyn.5592]

Man, John Carreyrou is a boss.

[@startups]

Tony N. He was an amazing guest to have on the show!

[@LiuLiangWei]

I have read Bad Blood. It is a really well-written book, and such a page-turner. Great work by John Carreyrou. It's a pity Theranos turned out to be a fraud. It would have been a world-changer if their vision had worked

[@electrosonicnebula]

There is no reason this can't be a reality on a much smaller scale in the near future with improvements leading to comparable capacity in the more distant future. Problem is there was no disruptive technology, no breakthrough, nothing that made it suddenly possible to test so efficiently. She and her enablers knew or should have known it. And it's amazing that neither venture capital analysts or the lab machinery industry didn't call the bluff long before the journalists and disgruntled workers got involved.

[@zacharypernikliyski4830]

I just bought the book, call Thank you for having him on, and thanks for him for exposing this awful fraud

[@corettaha7855]

Big Hero 6. She told people the plot but claimed it was a business plan. And they believed it. Unicorn indeed.

[@Gajdacsi61]

I always hear about Tyler and Erika. How about the other 800 employees of Theranos? This reminds me of masses going to war silently at the command of a dictator. Tells volumes about human nature.

[@wvrjl]

Because they actually told the truth. Most didn't. If the knew, they either just quit or kept their mouths shut.

[@TR4zest]

I spent a career in the pharmaceutical industry. At a global conference in San Francisco on 'healthcare - the future' or something like that, I got chatting to someone from Google. When I explained my role in Pharmaceutical R&D the Google person asked me 'why are you here, you are a supplier?'. Wow. I saw then the arrogance of silicon valley and their dismissal of decades long innovation in partnership with the medical profession that helps healthcare work. I think silicon valley believed / believes it can move its disruption strategies into something much more complex and complicated (and regulated) and got it badly wrong. I hope she goes to jail. She put, willingly, people at risk.

[@GizmoMaltese]

“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” - Mark Twain.

[@nicholascameron6175]

This is an amazing tale. Really enjoying this book.

[@marineboy6033]

Bad Blood is a great book

[@Ferocious_Imbecile]

Not just a great interview, but an excellent You Tube channel.I just subscribed

[@DannaGoat]

He’s awesome for releasing this story

[@asadchoudhrya]

One the best podcasts of all time

[@caib714]

Great book! Still reading it.

[@jasoncalacanislive]

it's bonkers.....

[@silvasun5326]

It’s a pity the interviewer interrupts Carreyrou so thoughtlessly during this.

[@twaodood5106]

It is great to see rich people taken advantage of!!!

[@JaneDoe-zr4px]

I cannot WAIT till the movie version of this book comes out. Total Enron vibes here.

[@item6931]

"....and then she spent the rest of her life in jail. The End."

[@ShannonPost1]

This interview is very informative, but Jason's interruptions are so frustrating. I think Mr. Carreyrou thought so, too. You can hear him speaking more quickly as the interview progresses, as though he is trying to finish his thought before Jason interrupts him.

[@ceylonin7289]

Amazing story, congratulations! Carreyrou is a great investigative journalist, indeed

[@NOT_SURE..]

you omitted the fact that the board tried to fire her , she weaseled herself back , and then got all the people fired who tried to get her out , typical sociopathic behaviour .

[@nicolletesand2205]

Anne Hathaway should play her.

[@LiwaySaGu]

actually, yeah the eyes could work

[@freyalove3831]

​@@LiwaySaGu Anne doesn't have blue eyes.

[@dalearthur7493]

I've wondered how her parents; public servants and donors of the seed money, feel about this. And did she also lie to her parents all the way? Probably.

[@jasoncalacanislive]

She started out delusional, she ended up a fraud --- who knows when the lie started, but it was her *decision* to lie and carry out this fraud.

[@dalearthur7493]

Yes, that's the sad reality.

[@jojogeneral2928]

Her parents? I bet they are also 'weird'.

[@TheresaBuccola]

That voice of hers always DROVE ME BANANAS!

[@fredwinslow744]

Excellent story Great journalism. The real fourth estate

[@Jamminn555]

Excellent show. But sir, please stop interrupting your guest. You don't let John finish his thoughts or stories.

[@rachelnamery9447]

This was a great podcast except for how many times the host interrupted the interviewee

[@davedee4382]

It truly was outright fraud. Amazing. She couldn’t imagine it all coming to this horrible end? Sociopath!

[@epi965]

Great interview!