The Three Musketeers, Lost in Adaptation ~ Dominic Noble

Part One: The Book
The start of a three part review of the many adaptations of The Three Musketeers.
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[@courageandcake]

"most of their time is spent in illegal duels, scrounging for money, or following up on personal vendettas." My DnD group can relate.

[@nikoladedic6623]

So, they are basically the original D&D party.

[@amandaburnham8626]

🤔 you know what.... I'm on board with this being the 1st recorded dnd campaign. Given the recaps Dom mentioned as being constant throughout the story. Regular duels and skirmishes, unreasonably great rewards, dodgy choices by the "heroes", yep sounds like a dnd party.

[@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS]

Porthos : Champagne? Athos : We're in the middle of a chase, Porthos. Porthos : You're right - something red.

[@alyssaagnew4147]

Oh, I love that movie.

[@orinanime]

Such a fun adaptation

[@miaria2049]

My favorite adaptation, Oliver platt makes it amazing

[@TheMichigami]

If tim curry's Richelieu doesn't get at least a mention in the following episodes, much sadness will occur. that movie was glorious, so perfectly 90s FUN adventure in the best way, with such an amazing cast that all did an amazing job. still one of my favorites to this day.

[@geraldgrenier8132]

@@TheMichigami I like thed the flick of the wrist scene 8)

[@JohnnyElRed]

So, to resume: one goes into "The Three Musketeers" expecting the kind of heroes one would find in "Lord of the Rings"... only to instead find the ones one would expect on "Game of Thrones".

[@RoScFan]

Or maybe pulp fiction, breaking bad or sin city. Everyone is bad!

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

Thats the perfect way to put it honestly. When most people picture the 3 musketeers they think of noble heroes who always stick together, which is far from the truth. Also nobody ever remembers that Musket is part of their name since we hardly ever see portrayals of them USING MUSKETS Edit: also theres never Only been 3 musketeers in the story. Ever. So even the name is a misconception.

[@rumleech]

Think of them as Conan or a standard D&D party - they're Good aligned because they say they are not because of their actions.

[@astrinymris9953]

It's the power of protagonist-centered morality.

[@RoScFan]

@@rumleech Is that dedicated D&D terminology? Because I've never played D&D. Seems bullshit for someone to be "good" because... they just say they are...

[@ichimaru96]

Playing devils advocate for the awful actions of the characters, I've heard various accounts that Alexandre dumas meant for the book to be a satire showing how while considering themselves chivalrous the musketeers really were horrible, like the noblemen of dumas' day. Not sure if it's true but it seems like an interesting way to view it

[@Visplight]

I think it's a little more Dumas' edgelord grimdark phase.

[@Firegen1]

@@Visplight Unlikely. Many characters in French literature do incredibly dark actions in the course of the story. Also Dumas was a raconteur in his own right, wouldn't be surprised if he added a touch of his own escpades especially on debt.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Just compare it to Monte Cristo, seems to follow a similar trend with the "count" absolutely ruthlessly following his revenge... and the highborn and wealthy that betrayed them for their own benefit not much behind in terms of cutthroat attitude.

[@Toneill029]

Kind of like how knights, samurai, Gods, and other nobility despite having reputations of great, benevolent and honorable people, but were very much scum.

[@panurgeestocade2125]

The Three Musketeers is a work of the Romantic era. The world of the novel is not meant to be realistic. All reasoning is removed and everyone is acting only on emotions as it is common for novels of that period.

[@michaeloconnor5904]

0:16 Viewers: How many languages do you speak?! Dominic: One. But I know that phrase in 250.

[@MandalorSkyrd]

Well.. google translate knows it. But he put in the effort and that's why we love him

[@RickBern37]

As a french guy I can confirm he does NOT know that phrase in french... sorry

[@rayannerobison7569]

Define "speak". If you say "can speak phrases", 3, but if we're talking, like, "can say words", I may know as many as 15.

[@dark_fire_ice]

@@rayannerobison7569 I would say if you can debate a native speaker (not win, just debate in the language) one is a fluent speaker

[@michaeloconnor5904]

@@n00bly_43 Love that someone got the reference lol.

[@trying_my_bestest]

As a French speaker I applaud your bravery. I admire people for attempting to speak a language so notoriously difficult to pronounce. Well done for stepping out of your comfort zone. Overall, your pronunciation wasn't *that* bad. I can assure you my ears are not bleeding. (although, admittedly, I did cringe a little a few times. Sorry) Just a friendly tip for if this ever comes up again: beaux is basically just pronounced something like 'bo'. (Not quite but it's a close approximation) When in doubt in French, just drop off the last couple of letters. (That's not always the case but it's easier than explaining all the various rules). I don't mean to be overly critical because that dicourages people from learning and making mistakes (Mistakes are very beneficial and important) and I want you to feel encouraged to continue making top quality videos, whether or not every detail is correct. There's no need to be so hard on yourself. I genuinely do respect and appreciate you trying. Don't worry about it. I've definitely heard many people butcher things far worse and make no apologies. All things considered you did pretty well. (To be fair, when we briefly studied it in 10th grade French class at a French school many of my friends had trouble pronouncing certain names when we read aloud as well, so you are not alone.) Basically, at least you made an effort to do the language justice. Even if some things were mispronounced, it doesn't matter very much.

[@izsazsa219]

Just like "Batz" is pronouced "Ba" xD

[@Carollnn]

When I visited France, I was happily surprised by how understanding people were with my limited French. My experience was completely opposite the stereotype. It definitely encouraged me to study and practice!

[@douglasfreer]

Last Christmas on vacation at Disney World my family had a meal at Chefs de France in Epcot. I was the only one to order my meal in the French names listed on the menu and the waiter actually complimented my French. I don’t really know French but I used what I did know to figure out how the words were probably pronounced.

[@drunkenprayer8390]

Is French really that difficult? I learned it in school and apart from using weird pronouns and a few words that sound really similar it seemed fairly straight forward. Most romance/Latin based languages are easy enough for any English speaker to pick up and I presume it works the other way round.

[@Reubentheimitator6572]

I do a deed like your deed with the written versions of foreign languages I read.

[@dustrose8101]

Aww, you're not reviewing the Barbie version? (don't take this seriously)

[@the-NightStar]

As long as he's doing the Disney version with Mickey, Donald and Goofy, it's all good.

[@dantpointy436]

Little Miss Listless I kinda want Dom to review it just because of how funny it'd be

[@xRaiofSunshine]

The Barbie one is great! :D

[@ebwarg]

Yippee, Yappee and Yahooey!

[@sillypplproductions2]

Hey, you don't know if he is or isn't yet lol

[@annana6098]

My main impression of the book was that the interactions between the musketeers themselves are the best part of the book. I was a teenager when I read this and remember being somewhat baffled by them all being perfectly ok with infidelity when our modern culture hates cheaters so much. Also the casual murder, harassment and assault. But no, DeWinter is the villain, because she dares to be a woman doing the same things.

[@LynetteTheMadScientist]

Correct me if I’m wrong but even in modern day France infidelity is not taken very seriously

[@TheGerkuman]

Also, the irony of Aramis being the least worst person of the musketeers is pretty strong for those of us who've read The Man in the Iron Mask.

[@oliviawilliams6204]

TheGerkuman feel a need to say that the Man in the iron Mask is actually just a part of the second sequel, the Viscounts of Bragellonne

[@marianitamr3751]

What did he do in the sequels?? (Sorry I havent read them and tbh dont really feel like to cause they're huge 😂)

[@oliviawilliams6204]

@@marianitamr3751 He was part of a conspiracy to replace the king by his twin

[@marianitamr3751]

@@oliviawilliams6204 oh.Eh, tbh, could be worse but it's still a shitty thing to do :/

[@TheGerkuman]

He did it for his own ends, the plan was shoddy and failed and got Porthos killed because of it. (And it led to the finance minister of france getting the blame, despite the guy being the one who lets the King escape). And he gets away with it. Or to put it another way, D'Artagnian's last words imply that he thinks Aramis is going to hell.

[@ambds1975]

You know... I reread this book occasionally and enjoy it, but now that you summarize it all out loud... GOD, it is such a French soap opera...

[@truefanforum3273]

April Smith I think that was kind of the point. I auditioned for a play adaptation of the Three Musketeers, and the director mentioned that stories like this was the main form of easy entertainment. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously like other literature. It was something fun you read to relax after a long day when you don't want to think too hard. I guess like a lot of reality shows of today.

[@cas2762]

Now I understand why the version in my elementary school library was HEAVILY censored and edited. Thanks for another marvellous review, and I can’t wait for the next episode!

[@Strawberry92fs]

Any book worth censoring is a book worth reading uncensored

[@cas2762]

Caboose 92m I agree, but... may I remind you that this was an elementary school library? More specifically, the small shelf in a 4th grade classroom.

[@merchantfan]

@@cas2762 I think censored/abridged books are insults to literature. Usually it's like taking all the spices and sauces out of a recipe. The bare bones of most stories are bland and boring and not really worth consuming

[@cas2762]

merchantfan fourth. Grade. You can be as elitist about this as you want, but truth be told I’m not sure I would’ve even known the barebones of the story if not for that book in the library. I’d very much rather read a slightly censored version as a kid that would intrigue me to read the full version, than either be given the full version at too young an age to handle it or simply not read it at all. These books present children with the classics. With stories that are important to our view of society and how our ideas are shaped. They present the basic idea when you’re young, and then when you grow up you think “hang on, that wasn’t the full version?” and go read the full version. Because you’re familiar with the basic and want to learn more.

[@merchantfan]

@@cas2762 Did you actually go on to read the whole book though?

[@Artemisa97]

The only part of the book I truly enjoyed was Milady's captivity. She is a better spy than most stupid characters in spy movies AND a more interesting character than any other character in this book.

[@nitehunter91]

Indeed

[@josiane9193]

Well although it's often touted as a kids book it was written for grownups. hence the length and to look at the protagonists with contemporary values is frankly not very intelligent, it is what it is an adventure story about the bonds of friendship and derring do, written in the earlier part of the 19th century when public beheading was still done in France about an era 200 years earlier when public witch burnings were common place, I think he is frankly an oversimplistic pseudo intellectual with delusions of his own intelligence, if he don't like it fine, but to call Dumas a wanker says everything about he. GROW UP,.

[@johnvinals7423]

@@josiane9193 Who’s an over simplistic pseudo intellectual?

[@margaretschaufele6502]

Why did she care about killing Constance though? I could totally see, and sympathize with her wanting to kill D'Artagnan because of the whole tricking and raping her, but why does she want to kill poor Constance? Did D'Artagnan wax poetically about her to Milady or something?

[@Artemisa97]

@@margaretschaufele6502 No she's just petty and cruel. Milady is NOT a good person by any means of the imagination, she's just the most interesting and complex character

[@joelmole3157]

So... this is the second book you've covered where a woman named DeWinter is never given a first name... I wonder if that was a deliberate homage on du Maurier's part

[@Pepperjack1986]

Ooh, good point! I was scratching my head for a little while wondering why his saying De Winter sounded so familiar until I remembered his Rebecca Lost in Adaptation video.

[@artloveranimation]

Interesting. Guess you’d have to add them to Lady MacBeth and... (I can’t remember his name’s) fiance from “Of Mice and Men.” Those 2 specifically are not only unnamed but die in a tragic way after we sympathize with them as individuals with dreams and goals.

[@ilexdiapason]

@@artloveranimation but they're not both called de winter

[@joeyshears1483]

@@artloveranimation to be fair on the Macbeth one I'm fairly certain lord macbeth wasn't given a first name either, most of the characters either have a first or a last, not both. And most of my teachers agree that not naming Charlie's fiance from of nice and men was deliberate commentry from the author on how society treats women.

[@artloveranimation]

Joey Shears Yeah we read macbeth right before of mice and men so we definitely had that discussion, I just thought it was interesting that other books did it too whether or not it was intentional.

[@CanIswearinmyhandle]

Whenever I have to pronounce a french word I just say the first few letters and then I say the rest as if I'm drunk and falling asleep

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

Ah a fluent speaker!

[@noahmasi9368]

Pretty solid technique really.

[@Stormkrow280]

Better than Scottish: according to Trevor Noah the accent was developed to avoid throwing up from all the beer they guzzle down

[@internetkurator9256]

My ancestors are from Brittany, so I get through with harsh pronouncation xD

[@bthsr7113]

And I'm pretty sure you can't pull off Welsh unless you are slooshed.

[@johannesmakila2459]

So D'Artagnan is basically original Scott Pilgrim but worse.

[@Amanda_Harper]

But with no Ramona Flowers to swoon over; for some reason I always end up crushing on the messed up girls.

[@bar-1studios]

@@Amanda_Harper there's at least 1 Evil Ex in the book.

[@johnathanholmes1297]

Jesus Christ! D'Artagnan is the worst hero in book history!

[@josiane9193]

Well although it's often touted as a kids book it was written for grownups. hence the length and to look at the protagonists with contemporary values is frankly not very intelligent, it is what it is an adventure story about the bonds of friendship and derring do, written in the earlier part of the 19th century when public beheading was still done in France about an era 200 years earlier when public witch burnings were common place, I think he is frankly an oversimplistic pseudo intellectual with delusions of his own intelligence, if he don't like it fine, but to call Dumas a wanker says everything about he. GROW UP,.

[@MrNelg19]

_"Where of cause they get into another duel."_ What a twist!

[@mrdzentertainment1062]

gotta say, I love your representation of Dom's pronunciation of the word "course"

[@Xehanort10]

Seems like anything sets off a duel to the death in this.

[@edisonlima4647]

Just an itsy bitsy thing about why Richelieu is more powerful than the king: it is not just a matter of Church being powerful, French monarchy has a long history of the king being less powerful than his nobles, keeping both a very complicated and dangerous balance and making a push for the institution of a Constitutional Monarchy as the one in England less of a priority for the nobility.

[@jamiekamihachi3135]

Hopefully that won’t bite them in the ass say around the end of the 18th century.

[@margaretschaufele6502]

I thought a lot of it had to do with Richelieu being a regent for Louis during his childhood since his father was killed when he was a small child. Louis then kept him around because he was actually good at his job.

[@SamAronow]

My headcanon is now that Lady de Winter is a distant aunt of Max from Rebecca.

[@jonsnor4313]

Maybe a reference to lady the winter the badass spy.

[@lalalama1823]

This was actually my favourite book as a child. I remember viewing D'Artagnan as a noble and heroic person with the small flaw of being too stubborn and dramatic. The rape scene in particular was seen by my 9year old self as funny shenanigans because of the crossdressing afterwards. When I read it later I was kind of horrified to see my hero as a stalker, rapist, murderer and overall douchebag. While some of their actions can be explained by the mentality of their time (like beating up your servant just because you're bored or angry), some of it just can't. I still like "The three musketeers" a lot but problematic episodes shouldn't be removed or forgotten. Thanks for acknowledging that.

[@woland192]

At the time, there were tortures, public executions, witches were burned, slavery, Europe was plagued by wars. Morals and ways of thinking were different.

[@shreyasiroy3579]

​@@woland192 i agree.. The way we view character is vastly different. All of the characters except for maybe constans are dark and amoral but in a society plauged by all things bad, they would be viewed very differently.

[@ebenezer4107]

We always see superficial films about heroism, but we never see realistic films talking about My Lai massacre, Mahmudiyah rape and killings.

[@TheDunnDusted]

Wow, Milady de Winter is actually badass. She's like the Black Widow of the 17th century. Honestly a story about her trials and missions would much more interesting, especially considering the low status of women even then, she was the most important piece in the Cardinals machine.

[@celinak5062]

Today I found out or extra credits did a video on a pretty badass gal

[@meursault7030]

Yeah, so many murders. She must be congratulated for the murders while everyone else in the book who does the same shit must be condemned. Because girl power.

[@Luanna801]

@@meursault7030 The difference is they're supposed to be heroes and she isn't. Appreciating a badass villain for what they are is much easier than appreciating a hero who doesn't live up to the name.

[@meursault7030]

@@Luanna801 I don't believe the author's intent is really clear enough as to be able to clearly state who was supposed to be percieved as the hero or villain. D'Artagnan was the protagonist, sure, but that's different to being the hero. Maybe Dumas was making a point about double standards, like I am, exept it sort of goes the opposite way in terms of gender nowadays.

[@jonsnor4313]

And she is a strong female character in a whyever sexist book, from the 17th century. That deserves respect.

[@snazzyguy2000]

The part regarding the murder of the Duke of Buckingham is historically accurate. A Lieutenant Felton did indeed kill the duke on the dockside at Portsmouth.

[@celinak5062]

+

[@bar-1studios]

Dumas included similar factual content in The Black Orchid, which opens with the murder if the Brothers Dewitt by an Orangist mob.

[@margaretschaufele6502]

The way my British History for Dummies put it, it was to get rid of the Duke after he made such a mess out of the war. The man couldn't organize or lead for toffee and the English just got sick of being embarrassed by him.

[@ezechiel1315]

As a French native I must say that seeing you making everything to pronounce these names correctly is adorable. Even if it sometimes fails.

[@MissSteam]

Yea the book was written more like a satire to nobility & shivery a lot of literature at that time was like this, basically France went through an edgy phase.

[@badrequest5596]

so edgy it ended with a guillotine and a few rolling heads

[@MissSteam]

@@badrequest5596 there culture would make anyone's head spin

[@josiane9193]

Well although it's often touted as a kids book it was written for grownups. hence the length and to look at the protagonists with contemporary values is frankly not very intelligent, it is what it is an adventure story about the bonds of friendship and derring do, written in the earlier part of the 19th century when public beheading was still done in France about an era 200 years earlier when public witch burnings were common place, I think he is frankly an oversimplistic pseudo intellectual with delusions of his own intelligence, if he don't like it fine, but to call Dumas a wanker says everything about he. GROW UP,.

[@samlerf]

Are you saying that it was satire? What is that based on?

[@thenablade858]

@@samlerf Because of the many comedic elements within the book, especially compared to the Count of Monte Cristo, the less idealized treatment of the Musketeers and the characterization of the nobility. Dumas’ father was a slave, and his family was staunchly Bonapartist. He would look at traditional French nobility with distaste.

[@dragoncatoverload]

Isn’t every non primary source of history just a game of telephone?

[@dragoncatoverload]

Sara Samaletdin I’m pretty sure that was super common back in the day. Makes it a pain for historians who have to sort the fact from the fiction.

[@Marveryn]

this is how myth and legend are born. play telephone long enough and you have a guy fighting a dragon with a magic sword@@dragoncatoverload

[@berengustav7714]

Egyptian and Greek myths have writers changing motives and levels of agency and dickishness>>Christians forcing paganism into a Christian morality tale,>>>comic writers>>>adapting those loosely into movies.

[@demigothneka]

All I got from the recount of the book is Constance is a badass who rescues herself several times, something women are hardly allowed to in period movies because it's considered too 'unrealistic' for the time. But works from that time period said otherwise.

[@MajaBiana]

Yes, I'd like a story about her, but with a happy ending, because she deserves better!

[@SamAronow]

Quick note: France doesn’t have a cardinal unto itself. “Cardinal” is a title, not a position, and it is given to bishops, of which there are several scattered throughout the various regions of France. Cardinal Richelieu was bishop of Luçon. This isn’t a big deal for you, but I’ve never forgiven The Affair of the Necklace (do not watch this terrible movie) for insistently using the term “Cardinal of all France.”

[@grayscribe1342]

Which in my opinion makes it even more astounding that he was considered a force equal to the king with the best spy network in all of Europe. It's been said that even the Pope was relieved when Richellieu died. Not sure if that is true, but it would not surprise me.

[@ReddwarfIV]

@@grayscribe1342 Funny thing is he was apparently a great guy to work for.

[@grayscribe1342]

@@ReddwarfIV Which is one of the reasons I love the '70s adaptation. Richellieu isn't interested in revenge when they save the Queen and he immediatly adapts to the question why there are two more diamond studs. Also in the end, when he burns the paper he wrote, the only defense d'Artagnan had and simply signs the paper that makes someone an officer. Simply because revenge is a waste of his time and if someone is talented like that? He must have im on his side.

[@Khenfu_Cake]

Glad someone else noticed that detail too. A cardinal (to my knowledge at least) is a sort of senior ranking position and title given to a bishop (I don't think priests f.ex are eligible of entering the College of Cardinals, as they are collectively known as). And since France obviously has more than just one diocese (basically the region or district under a bishop's jurisdiction) there wouldn't be a title available naming someone the cardinal of France.

[@carlrood4457]

@@Khenfu_Cake It's varied over the centuries. While a cardinal today needs to be ordained and promoted to bishop, that wasn't the case in the past. During the time of Henry VIII and his little disagreement with Rome, the Pope made Reginald Pole a cardinal despite him not even being a priest. He wasn't ordained a priest until nearly 20 years later and immediately made Archbishop of Canterbury under Mary I.

[@anttibjorklund1869]

*Three* episodes about The *Three* Musketeers?

[@Idunnoyouguessit]

Antti Björklund Should be four tbh

[@ramirezthesilvite]

Got a regular customer at the pet shop where I work named Dartagnon. Nice guy. I recall him being surprised I could pronounce his name correctly after reading it.

[@katherinemorelle7115]

ramirezthesilvite I wouldn’t be able to help but continuously thinking it in that super high pitched scream.

[@alicedubois1348]

@@katherinemorelle7115 I get that reference...

[@HeirofAzaran]

I enjoyed this synopsis, but I must admit around 3/4 of the way through the turns in the tale started to lose me and I became confused. I imagine reading the book will have the same effect.

[@Healermain15]

It doesn't help that all of the protagonists have very similar names, roles and characters (I.E. douchebags).

[@JD2390]

3/4? I was already lost half way through the video and needed to watch it again to get what was going on.

[@dragoncatoverload]

I was worried about this spoiling the book because I plan to read it some day....I will not remember most of this confusing shit.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

I'd say this is a case where the abridged / YA rewritings are actually much more enjoyable as the "highbrow" literary work... I thought i knew TTM but there was a lot of stuff in here that not just was totally new to me, but seemed to muddy down the story and turn it into a sluggish, meandering, boring tale... SO i probably only ever read a couple of the streamlined retellings and those were perfectly fine.

[@mimsydreams]

Same. I was like "Who did what now?" Pretty confusing story with too many twists and turns.

[@BuddyL]

0:30: "...the book📖 is long as all buggery." Oh, Dom... wait 'til you get to 'The Count of Monte Cristo' and its 600 subplots. ALSO: would you say book-D'Artangon is better or work than book-007🔫?

[@phastinemoon]

I mean, at least the 600 subplots of CMC are all enormous Chekov's Guns that go off in SPECTACULAR fashion. The judge? Has a big important part in conclusion. The bandit you just met? You're gonna see HIM again? That one servant of the Count's who seems totally superfluous? Hoo boy, his story gives us a WHOLE other twist in the plot!

[@Pepperjack1986]

I was a huge 3 Musketeers fan when I was a child... up until I realized that I was reading a highly sanitized abridged version. I finally read the actual book in high school and was immediately repulsed by the real D'Artagnan.

[@rodionromanovitchraskolnik2167]

The author of the video does not seem to accept that people can be violent and aggressive, they act like bullies like Fyodor Ivanovich Tolstoy who killed several men in duels, he was a real ruffian. Count Fyodor Ivanovich Tolstoy was a Russian nobleman from the well-known Tolstoy family. Possessed of an unusual temper, he became famous for his gambling, his passion for duels. People prefer idealized characters.

[@residentgrigo4701]

This was my grandpa´s favorite book so I read it and remember almost nothing. Good god was it long. The Count of Monte Cristo on the other hand still reads well today. An ep. about that one would break our Dom, especially if he tackles the 10/10 anime.

[@1987MartinT]

YES! I love The Three Musketeers, especially the Disney version from the 90s. Yes, it's not very accurate to the source material, but I still love it. I do find it interesting that while most adaptations are pretty black and white, the original is morally grey.

[@jaggerra7]

There is nothing morally grey about the original. It's just murder, rape, and gaslighting in order to satisfy vanity and egos. It may be a satire, but it's one that is solidly in the black when it comes to morality.

[@handler8838]

@@jaggerra7 Not really no. Late reply but what the heck: -Duelling was an accepted part of European society behaviour for hundreds of years and it would persist past the Musketeers days by a lot. Duelling had technically been outlawed in different countries multiple times during their history because it kept happening and people kept honouring those who did it. -Murder as in sneaking a dagger into someone's back was still murder and not socially aceptable. Duh. Athos reproches M'lady the fact that she slept with D'artagnan in order to convince him to murder someone else, and now M'lady wants him dead because he saw the Fleur de lis on her arm(this would destroy her career, so its not like is not a good move on her part, but still, not BLACK, grey). -The Musketeers are broken or "lost" people. They were not career military. Thus they do not posses a religious zealotry to their military corp., and are living stale lives when country boy unaware D'artagnan meets them.

[@woland192]

At the time, there were tortures, public executions, witches were burned, slavery, Europe was plagued by wars. Morals and ways of thinking were different. You have to be very naive to believe that a person from the 17th century would think like someone from the 21st century. Moral values are not universal and much less timeless. If it were possible to travel in time, if you went to Rome, you would see another way of thinking. I love Dostoevsky because he shows the deepest and darkest parts of a person, unlike the superficial subliterature that is written today.

[@neilprice513]

After reading the book I was rather surprised at how the multiple adaptations I have seen have altered the characters to make the Cardinal the main bad guy, De'Winter his "minion" and the musketeers the heroes. All they did was to remove the "suspect" actions of the Heroes and exadurate the actions from the books of everyone else.

[@meursault7030]

I've never seen it spelled "exadurate" before lol wow

[@neilprice513]

@@meursault7030 I'm a crap typist ;op

[@wjzav1971]

There was a TV show in the last years which I watched where the cardinal (played by Peter Capaldi) was less of a mustache twritling villain and more of a ruthless politician who genuenly wanted to strenghten France position. The Musketeers just as often ended up working with him as they would work against him.

[@indedgames4359]

Yeah becaus nowdays this wouldnt sell or be seen as funny. Back then rape Was seen as a joke. Nowdays if a Good guy rapes he isnt good. I honestly like the New movie as it does all this and realy just removes the nasty actions of the musketeers and turns them into flawed people. Milady included. She is still bad but you understand she is the Minion plus cleverly seting up her reveal as Athos ex wife who was abused and is doing everything to survife

[@santos8468]

​@@indedgames4359Are you talking about the version with Eva Green as Milady?

[@LockeD333]

Richelieu wasn't that powerful just because the church was. He was a major power broker in his own right who rose like a rocket up the political chain, weakened the nobility in service of a strong central leader, and ultimately became Secretary of War AND Foreign Affairs at the same time. He made a personal attachment to the Queen Mother and the young Louis XIII early on. Basically a Littlefinger or Varys, but certainly not as outwardly villainous as in Dumas' book. I had a history teacher who was obsessed with Richelieu, thought he was Machiavelli's equivalent and bold enough to seize power instead of just writing about it.

[@autobotstarscream765]

So basically the fulfillment of what people believed about Rasputin?

[@missdarkeyes]

Everytime you said "d'ArtaGNAN" I took a shot bourbon. I am now posting this from the dead! 🤣🤣🤣

[@labyrinthwomb]

I didn't remember any actual sex in the book, so I looked it up - apparently, some English translations leave it out. I think that enhanced my enjoyment of the book immensely. In my translation, d'Artagnan just sneaks in and gets her to admit she loves DeWardes, then leaves. Later he comes in, she tells him to kill DeWardes, and he reveals he was in her room last night and sent the letters spurning her - it's a PUNKED! moment.

[@MaiNerys426]

So they’re like Knights from Westeros? Good to know.

[@handler8838]

Is almost like GRR Martin was a huge fan of French history or something...

[@corruptangel6793]

Everytime I see that Percy Jackson and Eragon clip in your intro I die a little inside.

[@malkite2k]

To add to the discussion of adaptation and how it can be done, if it interests anyone, there's an Swedish/English jukebox ROCK MUSICAL adaptation of the Three Musketeers where the main cast are references to/parodies of famous music icons: D'Artagnan - Jon Bon Jovi/Joey Tempest (Europe) Athos - Alice Cooper/John Bonham (Led Zepplin) Porthos - Meatloaf Aramis - Kizz/Nikki Sixx (Mötley Crüe) Constance - Cyndi Lauper Captain de Treville - Bono Cardinal Richelieu - Michael Jackson Milady - Madonna Rochefort - Prince The Queen - Nina Hagen The Duke of Buckingham - Johnny Rotten etc. Having read the book as a teen I was shocked to see how many things they included from the book that are usually kept out of movie adaptations: - Like Athos hanging Milady - Constance being married - The gang being very meh on the whole loyalty thing (in the musical they're basically washed out rock musicans passed their prime) - Rochefort mocking D'Artagnan for his "horse" (it's a moped, while Rochefort has a motorcycle) - Aramis's handkerchief scene (it is however instead a scene of casanova Aramis being confronted with a pair of panties from one mistress by another mistress) - Even D'Artagnan sleeping with Mylady in a disguise. They toned down the rape aspect by D'Artagnan being disguised for other reasons and haplessly stumbling upon the situation, both misunderstanding each other. - The gang having Milady executed for fatally poisoning Constance (in movie adaptations Athos often forgives her for her past and she kills herself/she survives and Constance survives) - Too much to list Musical KZbin Link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZe2oIShq7BqidE Picture of the leads: imgs.aftonbladet-cdn.se/v2/images/ffaa9aaf-eea1-4cf1-ac81-81f8583e2ec6?fit=crop&h=568&q=50&w=800&s=9dedeefc10a8f6181f5dea8a679fbc4f2a070d96

[@robd9413]

Based on this review of the book I'd say the furthest away; not even "name only" adaptation would have to be "Dogtanian and the Three Muskerhounds", a cartoon from the early 80's. Many of the main players are present in modified dog form, but the plot isn't anywhere near it.

[@TheCoriMari]

Rob D p

[@soupdujour4086]

This sounds amazing, I'm checking it out, even if it's terrible. Thanks

[@shadowking9739]

The 1993 version is my favorite. Tim Curry for the win!

[@ameliecaro4181]

Your pronounciation of d'artagnan is super close to how a native would say it so well done. I'm French and give you the almighty baguette seal of approval.

[@ladyphoenixgrey3923]

The captions changed Richelieu to “we shall lose” and I’ll never unsee that. 🤣🤣🤣

[@MelonTartVA]

My favorite adaptation is still the one Disney made in the 90's. I grew up on it and it introduced me to Oliver Platt, Charlie Sheen, and Keifer Sutherland

[@andreraymond6860]

Just remember it was based on the Banana Splits television show cartoon adaptation for kids, not directly on Dumas. I hate it, but to each his own.

[@jf7296]

That my favorite version too.

[@pancakeofdestiny]

A retelling from de Winter's perspective, Milady by Laura L. Sullivan, was recently released.

[@mrpurple11]

Well it's interesting to see how a classic that many people go for thinking it's about honor and heroic deeds is full of flawed characters and morally grey areas. In that regard that makes it timeless. It has everything, it's part romance, part satire, part political critic, part an author coming up with hilarious shit to get people wanting more. Also Dumas was paid by the word that's why he used as many words as possible I had a similar problem when reading Dickens.

[@kylepeters8690]

throughout your explanation of the story all i could think was "these are the heroes? widely excepted as the pinnacle of chivalry and honer?"

[@pillowprincess3673]

Let me grab my collar, my favourite dom just returned

[@bar-1studios]

The safeword is "Terrence".

[@jonsnor4313]

Be careful, if he hears that he will throw you in the dungeon.

[@pillowprincess3673]

@@bar-1studios safewords are for pussies🤣

[@sweets6259]

Just a little mistake. The king at the time was not Louis the 8th but Louis the 13th, father to the famous Louis the 14th....Oh, and just a little bit of trivia you might like that goes well with the cardinal of Richelieu: the epithath on his grave read something like this: here lies a famous cardinal that did more bad than good. The bad he did, he did good; the good he did, he did bad.

[@coyraig8332]

He edited that into the video.

[@sweets6259]

@@coyraig8332 Great! thanks for the info. I haven't watched it since it first came out.

[@TeaGirl421]

Well, that's the Dogtanian theme in my head for the rest of the weekend...

[@leakinbrolly2379]

I enjoyed this more after reading all about the Franco-Prussian war and becoming familiar with the French army of the 1860s/70s being full of illiterate alcoholics who couldn't march anywhere without stopping for three hour lunch breaks and dumping half their kit on the way. Suddenly Dartagnan's procrastination and the swashbuckling tale of all three musketeers becoming destitute when Dartagnan leaves them alone for five minutes becomes a whole lot funnier. (That said it's a lot easier to feel bad for the real French army, they were real people, and living was hard.)

[@schale8051]

Lady de Winter was a total badass. I think she might be my favourite character in this book XD

[@TheGerkuman]

Also in the post script, Monsieur Boncineux kept bugging the Cardinal with fawning letters so much that eventually the guards come to take him away and he's never heard from again.

[@ant_raccoon5546]

He shows up in the sequel and is Killed by Porthos at the end

[@Auriorium]

There is an Anime adaptation (probably already mentioned). It is my childhood I even got dressed as D'Artagnan for a Carnival. Still singing the theme song in Italian.

[@SuperLoves4]

Wow, the abriged version of the three musketeers I read in middle school did not prepare me for this

[@syystomu]

Okay re: Dumas's politics, he was definitely a republican (as in he actually fought in the 1830 revolution and almost fought in the 1832 rebellion (the one in Les Mis) except he couldn't find a gun, or more specifically, couldn't convince an acquaintance of his to return him a gun he'd lent him for a stage play.) But he did have a complicated relationship with royalty and nobility since he had quite a few friends on the other side and he actually was Louis-Philippe's secretary before Louis-Philippe became king... which didn't stop Dumas from rooting against him after the stolen revolution. I've read bits of his memoirs for research purposes and I keep meaning to read the whole thing because they're very entertaining and his life was wild and wacky as hell. Also Dumas got into a LOT of duels in his life - he was a bit of a hot-head but apparently a good swordsman. And often he seems to have ended up making friends d’Artagnan style. Or maybe it's more that d'Artagnan makes friends Dumas style. He also wasted a lot of money and had a lot of debts, and he could be a bit of a ruthless bastard sometimes. I mean there's the whole thing with Maquet which I'm not sure what to think about... So anyway, he's a complicated figure but I have a huge soft spot for him and I absolutely love his writing so screw you :p Fun fact: his father (also called Alexandre) was the first black general in the French army and fought in the revolutionary wars and later also the Napoleonic wars (although from what I understand he had a bit of a personal beef with Napoleon who was a racist bigot, among other things). General Dumas had an even wilder life than his son, but I won't get into that now. As you might suspect it involves slavery and racism and all that _fun_ stuff. His son unsurprisingly had to deal with a lot of that racism too, which may have been a part of why he never got the same kind of respect his on-and-off friend and colleague Victor Hugo did. But at least he came up with some clever quips to respond to openly bigotted remarks. It might also be why many of his heroes (including d'Artagnan) are described as dark and "tanned" and why he seems to have a complicated and sometimes uncomfortable fascination with slavery and with non-European cultures.

[@thegayghost872]

I would pay good money to see you talk about the Barbie version

[@alexiane250]

I'd like to vote for the Disney Charlie Sheen 1993 version. I also find the 2011 version endlessly humorously bad and maybe worth a review too.

[@jf7296]

1993 is my favorite version.

[@mimmilehtimaki1926]

Aramis being one bad day away from rage quitting and joining a monastery- Relatable king.

[@MyLittelProblem]

My hope that you will review the musical miniseries produced in the Soviet Union called "D'Artagnan and Three Musketeers" is so tiny it's barely ever existing. But I do believe you will say a word about steampunk-ish film with Milla Jovovich and the TV series of 2014 year.

[@primequartz7292]

Congrats.

[@thecountofmontecristo2796]

I haven't seen the Michael York adaptation but as of now my favorite adaptation is the Gene Kelly version.

[@Ladyvirgule]

Hey ! French guy here ! Don't worry about the pronounciation. French is very difficult to pronounce, especially for an english speaker as both our languages vary greatly in regards to pronounciation and so tere cannot be a straight set of rules as to how to pronounce a given word. Anyways, just a trivia : there's a common cliché about people from Gascony being very proud and quick to take a slight, so the dad's advice comes from that. Also, they're supposed not to be very trustworty, as "a Gascon's promise" in French means one you do not intend to keep. Also also, the real d'Artagnan was noble from his mother's side (she was poor so she settled for a commoner it seems) and even d'Artagnan was his mother's name, which was very unsual at the time, but you know, the prospect of climbing the social ladder beats the patriarcal system, sometimes.

[@celinak5062]

+

[@intergalactic92]

I do find it interesting to learn that book Richelieu is not the full cackling villain that most portrayals would have us believe, which is good for adding an air of realism to the story. This is why I enjoyed Peter Capaldi's portrayal in the recent series, he was an antagonist but his motives often aligned with the Musketeers, so he sometimes was a reluctant ally, and in fact it was Milady that was the bigger threat throughout the first season. This was all highlighted in season 2 where the Musketeers were initially overjoyed by the Cardinal's death (of natural causes between seasons due to Capaldi being hired as Doctor Who *shakes fist*) but then are dismayed when Rochefort turns out to be a far worse antagonist, because his motives turn out to be far more sinister. In fact Richelieu could be argued to be a stabilising influence, for his motives are mostly for the benefit of France, the later antagonists are all deliberately undermining the french government, so prove much more dangerous. I had foolishly assumed that this portrayal was a clever subversion on the traditionally cartoonish villain that you normally see. Little did I know that Tim Curry's portrayal was the subversion.

[@Valkyrie77]

So... no fleet of airships? strange... :P

[@XalenderWhyte]

The Three Musketeers is glorious, I love Alexandre Dumas' work. Though Count of Monte Cristo is my favorite of his books.

[@XalenderWhyte]

Also Dominic the ENTIRE point of the book was to show how horrible people in the age of "heroism and chivalry" truly was. Its INTENTIONALLY how awful they are. Read the Red Sphinx and Count of Monte Cristo for a more in depth view.

[@jonathancampbell5231]

The cartoon "Dogtanian and The Three Muskehounds" is probably the single most faithful adaptation of the original story....but he's probably not going to cover that, sadly :'(

[@talmiz101]

i remember it, it was in the early 90's over here in israel, it was a fun show and i really liked it.

[@Utahrvarus]

Thank you, say the title and the tune pops in to my head again. "one of all and all for one muskehounds are always ready" going to dig out my DVD collection

[@christinesinclair6938]

It was a shock for me when I read that book too. D'Artagnan really is absolutely the **WORST** but the others are pretty despicable too.

[@boobah5643]

When I went into reading _The Three Musketeers_ I had thought it a tale of these people and their perfect friendship, with some derring-do on the side. But no, D'Artagnan never seems to be a friend to the Inseparables; he hangs out with and helps them because he believes those morons will be useful to him further down the line, whether for networking or, more often, as extra muscle. Dude spent the whole novel pressing the bright, flashing buttons the Inseparables had to get them to do what he wanted. By the end of the novel, for example, it seemed clear that D'Artagnan only offered the commission to the Inseparables because he knew they'd refuse, but love him for the offer.

[@handler8838]

For sure he knew he was the only one of the 4 who was hoping for a life long career as a musketeer. I get the impression from this book and its sequels that, despite Dartagnan coming from a very minor noble or at least somewhat well regarded family, he represents the ambitious every day man looking to get ahead in world made for nobler, richer, more powerful folk.

[@VadBlackwood]

Oooh, did you see the soviet version, "D'Artagnan and Three Musketeers" (1978)? It is considered a cult classic around here and is very much beloved =)

[@coal_inks4793]

You better cover the best adaptation of the three musketeers, the Barbie one.

[@TheLadyLiddell]

D'Artagnan sounds like a... great guy. I think I'm on M'Lady DeWinter's side here...

[@fangsabre]

She did murder a lot of people before that, including planning to murder him. Not saying she deserved that, or D'Artagnan wasnt a shitbag, but she is a serial killer and its implied coerced more than a couple of men into bed on false pretenses herself, before also murdering a couple of them

[@KL-uv3ts]

@@fangsabre Lady DeWinter is one of those "used every weapon a woman had at her disposal at the time, like the men did with their resources, but unlike the men is a villain" characters. Athos literally hanged her, using his authority of the lord of the land -- and before that congratulated himself on marrying her instead of a rape which would also have been seen as his right. They're all monsters by modern standards.

[@Kari7]

@@KL-uv3ts Still doesn't excuse her from murder. Keep in mind, she was planning on killing D'Artagnan after she seduced him.

[@TheGerkuman]

In the end, she was mostly guilty of trying to use her position as a spy to get what she wanted. Had she done what the Cardinal said to the letter, D'artagnian would've been toast

[@KL-uv3ts]

@@Kari7 I didn't say it excused her of anything. But a lot of the "heroes" of this story resort to murder and otherwise awful stuff, so I don't like them more just because they are, supposedly, the heroes. And hey, sometimes the villains steal the show.

[@jasonh4534]

Just because I want to see him talk about a very good but artistically odd anime... The Count of Monte Cristo, book and anime comparison.

[@Version0111]

God I hope he includes the Mickey Mouse adaptation.

[@mattyb7183]

When I read the book I was really surprised as it was not what I expected. As I had only ever seen the film versions. And thanks for the recap of the plot. I do remember finding this book to be a hard slog to get through. And I had totally forgotten about (or blocked from my mind) the sexual assault stuff.

[@stephaniewilliams6756]

I love getting notifications about this channel! Dom your videos are so well put together and funny! Also booktube videos are hard to come by so it's cool we have such a thoughtful creator like you! Love your work man!

[@nostalgicarchives9463]

who better to discuss the story of four SHOCKINGLY unlikeable French characters than a VERY likeable British character

[@mrdzentertainment1062]

"likable" is too stronk a word to reffer to Dom... I'd go with "not wanting to help him headdesk every time he talks..."

[@neptuneplaneptune3367]

No one dear Sir no one.

[@gabrielp9646]

He´s not likable, he´s an idiot who can only fool teenagers with his EXTREMLY LIMITED knowledge of storytelling.

[@Concetta20]

I actually enjoyed this book (despite the moral questionability. It’s a 19th century French novel, what do you expect?) It’s so unexpectedly crazy and fun for classic literature. The closest film adaptations were the ones from the ‘70’s.

[@dea9380]

The world is not divided between good and evil, altruistic people and bad people. There is gray ground for humanity. The prototype of the jean valjean, Eugenie Vidocq was not altruistic and selfless, he was selfish and always acted according to his own interest. Dumas creates human characters instead of simple caricatures. Great books like The Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner don't have a romanticized view of the world.

[@seanmcloughlin5983]

I love Dom but sometimes his inability to care for characters who do bad or even morally grey things can get tiresome Like it’s his preference it’s perfectly fine not to like certain characters. But outright calling the author a dick because he wrote about dicks rubbed me the wrong way.

[@habunie]

I thin you misunderstood what the letter D'artagnan gave Richelieu meant. It said something to the effect of "What the holder of this letter did was for the good of France and with my blessing. Signed: Cardinal Richelieu". So D'artagnan was telling him that killing Milady was for the good of France and done with Richelieu's blessing. Cardinal was so impressed and amused with the sheer boldness of this move and general competence and bravery of D'artagnan and friends that he decided having them as friends/allies would be very useful for him.

[@violetsapphire952]

I'll have you know that a pinky promise made between two pre-teens on a playground is the most sacred bond of honour that can ever be struck!

[@Formoka]

This is pretty sad after having seen the Three Musketeers movie with Oliver Platt and Chris O'Donnell and those actors. That seem by far more happy and heroic than the book.

[@mbryson2899]

Disney effect.

[@immethos1]

I agree. I loved that movie then attempted to read the book and became disillusioned with the characters.

[@celinak5062]

The iron mask was also pretty good

[@astrinymris9953]

I remember I had such a fandom crush on Kiefer Sutherland when that movie came out, that I watched everything he was in, no matter how, um, not good it was. I even watched 'The Cowboy Way' and 'Renegades', that's how bad I had it. ;-D

[@bar-1studios]

Michael York remains le best d'Artagnan.

[@rikremmerswaal2756]

I fully agree with your standpoint that the musketeers are huge bastards. But the funny thing is that I love it because of that. They are all so immoral and selfserving and beyond anything a protagonist would be in modern literature I always felt that this made the musketeers a bit more real to me. Although the story is known as a story of honour and chivalry, the actual characters are just a bunch of cutthroats in a cutthroat world. I do fully admit that I am hugely biased, as a historian. I just very much appreciate that the musketeers feel like historical characters in stead of modern people who just magicly happen to life in the 17th century.

[@marianitamr3751]

Same! I feel like I was the only person who enjoyed the book because of that - the characters seemed so real and that's why it was so fascinating and captivating to me. Also, I think it's sort of unfair to judge everything they did by today's standards.

[@esmeralda1703]

People prefer idealized heroes and they are all very good. I like the characters being bastards, the politically correct disgusts me.

[@vodkathespacecat8533]

As a person able to speak quebecer french, the way he says the french names makes me laugh and smile. Thank you, I needed this.

[@amayasutton6815]

me rewinding to heard Dom say d'artangan for easy serotonin

[@irena4545]

As a kid, The Three Musketeers was my favourite read. Unabridged. The cool fights and intrigues, love and tragedy.... the morally dark stuff flew totally over my head. As an adult, I find myself a much less patient reader and the characters' douchebaggery really stands out, but there is still that "devil may care" attitude that makes the guys sort of endearing. One important distinction still remains, though: while the guys are douches, Milady is still way darker. Scheming murders and poisoning people is still more apprehensible in my book.

[@mbryson2899]

I'm hoping you do the Oliver Reed version. The director was a genius!

[@Shadowman4710]

Richard Lester. His film (which was split into 2 parts by the studio) is my favorite of all the versions I've seen.

[@mbryson2899]

Shadowman4710, I think he really nailed the narcissism and privilege of the setting. "Faster, whip them to make them go faster!"

[@swashofthewind4036]

I kinda love the Disney version,not least because Keifer Sutherland and Rebecca de Mornay give career performances cleaning up that crazy subplot,which is much more well written there, where our swashbucklers are transformed into the likeable scoundrels we expect, essentially using the image of Hollywood party boys as shorthand for their knockaround nobles.

[@edwardblacklock2446]

OMG only one of my favourite stories written by one of my favourite classic authors and we get three episodes! Dom I love you! Don't get me wrong I still love my wife but you have made my day of recovering from surgery so much better. Yay for swashbuckling adventures!

[@Forgefaerie]

I read that book back when I was a teenager. well... let me correct that - I read three musketeers, 20 years later AND 10 years later (aka the full trilogy) AND and whole bunch of other Dumas works. I was absolutely enamored with those books and other books like it, back in those days (my uncle was yet to introduce me to science fiction and my only exposure to fantasy at that time was.... sparse). I didn't realize just how unpleasant and unlikable the main "heroes" were back in those days, but something worth mentioning. if i remember correctly - D'artagnan in a first book was a 17 year old kid. sure, kids in those days got started at life earlier, but he was still technically a kid. so some of his hormonal impulsiveness was a combination of that and upbringing that taught him entitlement attitudes of nobility. and that also made it utterly hilarious when I watched the Soviet Adaptation of the books, where he was played by a 30 year old actor :P (or was he 40 already?) well he decidedly did NOT look 17 :P looking forward to hearing what you have to say about THAT one :P

[@CynnamonSpyder]

Clearly you must cover the Wishbone episode; his musketeer costume is freaking adorable!

[@mercedesroberts4680]

When the origional story is set in the time period you stuidied at history alevel. Chefs kiss

[@jackaylward-williams9064]

I’ve been away on holiday all week and made sure to save this video so that I had something to look forward to when I got back.

[@matthewdau8928]

Never been here early enough to feel like you would actually still be reading comments, but i just wanted to say i really appreciate all that you do and say thanks for being one of the best youtubers out there.

[@Dominic-Noble]

You're too kind ^__^

[@Olivia-ii4pu]

Dominic’s left eyebrow has more expression than my whole body.

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

French is easy to pronounce: take the word, cut out half the vowels and half the consonants and Bam you got how its actually pronounced

[@gabrielp9646]

Only an english speaker could be proud of the concept: "easy = good" Just saying.

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

@@gabrielp9646 only a french speaker would be so pretentious to think its better because its harder to understand

[@gabrielp9646]

@@ConnorNotyerbidness Im not a french speaker (I mean, I do speak french, but its the fourth language I learned). And yes, more complexity always means better (Its a ford car better than a formula 1, because its easier to drive? Its a Justin Bieber song better than a Rush song, because its easier to understand and listen to? Its a sandwich better than a nice plate because its easier to make? I could go on...

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

@@gabrielp9646 a formula 1 car is next to impossible to drive as a daily driver. What it is for always matters. Good for racing, not for anything else. Language should be easy to learn and understand. Complexity doesnt equate to quality. Ive had extremely complicated dishes that taste like crap and simple dishes that throw it out of the park

[@gabrielp9646]

@@ConnorNotyerbidness No, it´s not. Ive driven an formula 3 car through a normal road... So, you´re seriously trying to defend that a normal car is better than a F1 car, with a straight face... Good reasoning there, buddy (also, complex languages can have all the simplicity you want, but it also has the option of being much more complex).

[@zelieranquet3390]

I was so obsessed with this book as a child!!!! One of my favourite books of all time!!

[@kevinrwhooley9439]

A comparison of Heart Of Darkness and Apocalypse Now would be interesting.

[@lovelysan]

*Is on Team Milady DeWinter * Yeah, book treated her horribly and I always felt bad for her. Especially the way they killed her off D: . That said, I enjoyed the book while I was reading it, but yeah, the DeWinter stuff bothered me after finishing it. I vastly preferred The Count of Monte Cristo!

[@JohnnyElRed]

Yeah. I think her character fitted perfectly the old stereotype of the Femme Fatale. Not how we understand it modernly, but then: as a menace to men and society for DARING to be in control of her destiny and her own sexuality.

[@Forgefaerie]

it took me some growing up before i got to that point, but yeah... she survived by whatever means necessary and the only action of hers that I genuinely couldn't agree with was murder of Constance. but... product of her time and her treatment and all that :/ my fave back then (its been decades since I read the books O_O) was "La Dame de Monsoreau" I wonder just how differently it will read for me nowadays....

[@zelieranquet3390]

@@JohnnyElRed Tbf, she was considered a menace to society because she had murdered a bunch of people and was aiding in a scheme to compromise the queen

[@JohnnyElRed]

@@zelieranquet3390 People she was ordered to murder by a hugh authority of her country. And she was to reveal that the queen was cheating on her husband, which is hardly reproachable.

[@zelieranquet3390]

@@JohnnyElRed She killed people when asked to by the Cardinal (though since she is English, he isn't really an authority figure of her country, but yes that's nitpicking and I see what you mean), but she has also killed by her own volition. I agree she was a very interesting character, but don't exonerate her based on her gender. As for the queen, they were trying to get her inculpated of treason more than cheating, and I can't really blame a woman who has been sold to a country, trapped with a husband she doesn't love and who does not love her either, who finally finds love in another man and yet denies him and with it her happy ending for loyalty to the country she is now a part of.

[@elennapointer701]

I remember reading a book about the historical accuracy (or otherwise) of the Three Msuketeers themselves and it strongly suggested Dumas had involved himself in a little bit of identity theft in the course of creating his characters, namely by raiding the obituary and burial lists of the day for suitable names. If I recall correctly, the man upon whom Dumas based the character of Athos - the most skilled swordsman of the trio - was in fact the opposite, being more of a cack-handed bumbler who, much like the fictional D'Artagnan, arrived in Paris on Day One, got himself into a duel with another gentleman on Day Two but, unlike D'Artagnan, got himself killed in the actual duel on Day Three. The book records similar unglamorous fates for the other two 'Musketeers', though right now I can't remember how they ended up.

[@rayannerobison7569]

Having read (and admittedly loved) Dumas' other famous work, The Count of Monti Christo, I think Dumas just hates women. It had a "I've been wounded too many times to trust them" kind of feel to it.

[@MsVioletRoseheart]

Well its also important to remember that during Dumas' time men didn't consider women anywhere near their level, regarding them more like objects and children. Also! Dumas was quite the ladies man ;) Lots of affairs on his plate

[@esmeralda1703]

Haydee was loyal to Edmond and he had confidence and he loved her. Edmond felt he lost everything, but he still had the love of haydee. Who betrayed Edmond was Mondego, Villefort and Danglars. soviet version: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKa3dGh_hZJrnpo kzbin.info/www/bejne/boa8e2Rqd82NsMk kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnjJqWSpfctoasU