THE TIME MCLAREN TESTED ON AN OVAL! The Story of the 1991 McLaren Oval Experiment

[@aydankhaliq2967]

I'm surprised you could find a F1 story I've never heard of before.

[@Yoshiman2024]

I was just about to comment the same thing. Most of these stories are being covered plenty in books, magazines, podcasts, social media... but this is the first story by Aidan that I wasn't aware of.

[@mickcompagnoni1114]

Nah, it's not my first. I had no idea Road America was a weed outlet till Aidan told us.

[@rhyswilliams4893]

Aiden is full of gifts. 20+ years of watching f1 and I could (and do) listen to him all day

[@jsquared1013]

@@mickcompagnoni1114 Road Atlanta. Road America is a totally different track way up north in Wisconsin.

[@mickcompagnoni1114]

@@jsquared1013 Thank you. I wasn't sure which & obviously wrote the wrong one. My apologies if I have caused any offence. I would like to visit both circuits one day, but I'm on the wrong side of the planet for that.

[@RobertGracie]

I bet Senna and Berger had the absolute time of their lives out there on that circuit and the McLaren team enjoyed it, but if they had an American crew there those cars would have probably gone around somewhere near 21 seconds! to think the McLaren lot had a load of fun on an oval, it wouldnt happen today sadly!

[@jamiewright847]

tbf a race between the f1 and indy mclaren teams somewhere like IMS doesnt seem too far fetched at this point, maybe 2 laps of the road course and 2 (backwards) laps of the oval would be fun to watch

[@dhupee]

Zak Brown is American, if he can make McLaren back from the abyss he can make a show run United Autosports, McLaren F1, and Arrow McLaren sp having fun in Daytona

[@TotoDG]

With that comparison Aidan made between the F1 car and the IndyCar and how it would've made the Spanish Grand Prix (albeit at the back of the field), I feel like it's worth mentioning that 1959 Indy 500 winner Rodger Ward entered a Formula Libre race at Lime Rock later that year in a midget car. Yup, he competed against top teams with exotic, aerodynamic sports cars in something that's primarily used in lower-level dirt oval racing series. And you wanna know what's _really_ crazy about that? *He won.*

[@SaraSpruce]

Inspired by his success at Lime Rock, Rodger Ward also brought a midget to the 1959 United States Grand Prix at Sebring in December, but he qualified last, 43.8 seconds off Stirling Moss' pole time, and retired from the race with a clutch problem after 20 laps.

[@mets137781]

@@SaraSpruce TBF Lime Rock is 1.5 mi track while Sebring at that point was 5.7 mi track. You can pull that stuff off if you're good enough there. Some years back I was there with my Dad and a friend who was racing an old Shrike P15 and his class put into a class with some lower tier open wheel racers. He knew what he was doing and got the car up to fifth at one point (in comparison no one else in class was in the top 20). So I could see how Ward pulled that off. That said Lime Rock is an absolute Gem and would love to see Aidan do some F1 laps through there.

[@hughjass5156]

Yeah, at a such a small track like Lime Rock makes sense that would work. I would bet that dirt track cars in that era probably accelerated better than just about anything, and the short wheel base would have made them way more twitchy and maneuverable than anything else they were likely to face.

[@MrNinjaFish]

AJ Foyt nearly won an Indycar race in a midget car didn't he?

[@The52car]

@SaraSpruce furthermore, it was that that first USGP in Sebring that Ward convinced Jack Brabham to bring his rear-engined Cooper to Indianapolis, which would revolutionize IndyCar racing over the next few years.

[@danielhenderson8316]

Interesting. If Penske was there for a photo shoot, then Marlboro probably wouldn't want Ferrari there because it would ruin the "family portrait" with the identical livery that Penske and McLaren ran. Another aside was that Emerson Fittipaldi also got Ayrton Senna for an IndyCar test with Penske at Firebird Raceway in Arizona when he was up in the air on if he wanted to come back to F1. We almost got Nigel Mansell AND Ayrton Senna for the IndyCar grid in 1993. That really would have pissed off Tony George.

[@christopherwall2121]

Only Tony George could look at BOTH of the most popular drivers in F1 coming to IndyCar and be unhappy about it.

[@Mrmayhembsc]

@@christopherwall2121 Tony George for you

[@F1wgp7]

Yes, I read that in "The Life of Senna" which is a great book. Aparently he had to ask Jo Ramirez to send him his overalls without McLaren knowing.

[@danielhenderson8316]

Marshall Pruitt also did a video on the test as well for Racer Magazine that's worth watching. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6Wymmqmap2qoas

[@colinbrassington3192]

Daniel Henderson thank you for this link. Can’t believe I’ve never heard of this session

[@bloqk16]

F1 cars running on ovals could have suspension problems, as Mario Andretti tested a F5000 car at Indy back in the 1970s; as there was some discussions going around about integrating F5000 cars, with its stock block engines, to run on USAC ovals. The F5000 car Andretti tested suffered a suspension failure on the Indy oval; where supposedly Andretti was quoted to say that open wheel road racing vehicles were not designed/fabricated to handle the stresses of ovals.

[@dhupee]

There is also tyre, unless Pirelli can provide bigger tyre on left side And with oval usually goes full throttle almost everytime welp we got engine goes boom

[@The52car]

I've never heard of the F5000 around Indy. Where can I read more about this?

[@bloqk16]

@@The52car Your question got me searching for that article, and for the life of me, I can't find it. I've checked online with google wording combinations, with no positive results; although Gordon Kirby's website did come up with a tantalizing piece of info about how USAC (the forerunner to the IRL) was, in the 1970s, embracing the SCCA F5000 series to help bolster the USAC Champ Car series sagging popularity. I'll keep checking online and with the print magazines I have to locate that bit of info I recalled

[@therrydicule]

I'm not sure if the aero set up was made for oval as well, meaning you got more push and stress on the suspension... Than even if it is lighter on the aero, maybe the suspension still wouldn't be strong enough because road courses are not oval. Cars are a mess.

[@mattwhorlow9900]

Thank you - that was a story which I missed back in the day. Fair to point out that Phoenix was a short 1 mile oval with only light banking - so it was really half way between a road course and a full on super speedway (or a 'roval'). But cool story anyway.

[@mrbloodmuffins]

There is also a video on KZbin where Takuma Sato did an exhibition of his BAR Honda F1 car and his KV Racing Honda IR-07 Indycar ran on the Motegi Oval together.

[@luzindro]

History + F1? Yes, please. This has become, in the last couple of years, my favourite channel. Cheers from (sometimes) sunny Portugal.

[@spectrelfc1152]

Honestly that’s quite interesting. I had no idea that prime McLaren had run laps at a track I grew up going to. Fun fact: a pub I go to for LFC matches is right along the old front stretch of the Phoenix Street Circuit.

[@bobmcl2406]

Thanks for filling yet another gap in my knowledge of motorsport history. Too bad the Penske guys didn't hang around to consult on set up. Who knows how quickly they could have gone. I remember the only time I ran a Formula Ford team on an oval (Sanair Speedway, south of Montreal Canada) back in the 80s, the set up recommendations blew my mind! By the way, maybe you could team up with Jake at GPLaps to do an IndyCar/F1 showdown at Phoenix. It would be right up his alley!

[@The52car]

I'm here for the Jake/Aidan colab

[@shoobsey]

I love how this channel keeps bringing me back to see something new and intreaguing that I havent seen or heard of before, keep it up!

[@klepetar]

Paul Tracy , cart driver.. remember going over 400 km/hr on the Fontana raceway during the cart years.. that is fast..

[@AidanMillward]

250mph, give or take.

[@markthomsen1759]

Hi Aidan One of the most unappreciated aspect of oval racing is the fact that if you make a mistake entering one corner you affectively destroy one-half (50%)your lap. A road course is more forgiving as a similar mistake would impact the next two/three corners so 1/8th of the lap or so…..substantially less percentage. Enjoy the channel-keep up your excellence ! Mark Thomsen

[@danilomancini]

Early 80's, I remember seeing some info about a Indy team using a old Ligier chassi for some races... I would love to see a video about that story

[@Argent_99]

Ligier built a Indy car chassis in the early ‘80s and it was horrifically bad. The driver (Rupert Keegan?) told the team to bin it and they promptly did after one practice session. The Williams FW07 was also retasked as a Indy car chassis with no success whatsoever. Ferrari kinda half-assed their way around a Indy car program in the ‘90s (well, the engine got built and it’s data was given to Alfa for their disastrous Indy engine program) and Lotus made a Indy car version of one of their mid-80s F1 cars (either the 95 or 97) but it never raced.

[@minigungaming5915]

@@Argent_99 A tale as old as time, F1 teams half-assing Indy 500 attempts and failing miserably

[@scrubsrc4084]

One of my uni lecturers was a chassis specialist and left us to go work at red bull and from whay I rber the different stresses on a banked circuit are devastating to an f1 car without serious redesigning

[@MarkDaams]

Senna actually tested a Penske Indycar in 1992 if I’m not mistaken. There’s footage of that test on KZbin. It’s pretty cool to see.

[@michaelschlicker]

This is a great story to ask Berger about

[@JustinAH]

I suggest that you compare F1 and Indycars on the oval at Pocono! It has 3 different corners to make the triangle shape, turn 1 is from Langhorne, turn 2 is Indianapolis, and turn 3 is taken from the old Milwaukee Fairgrounds oval. Banking is minimal with 14° in turn 1, 9° in turn 2, and turn 3 is as flat as Grandma's kitchen table. Pocono is the first track I ever heard called a Roval and I think the layout of track would supply a little parity between the two cars. On F1 setup jack as much weight on left side as possible and drop left side tire pressure by at least 5psi or so. Good luck!

[@alaeriia01]

Ah yes, the Hash Brown.

[@tomanderson6335]

Pocono's turn 1 was patterned after Trenton's turn 1.

[@patrickracer43]

The thing with Michelin at Indy in 2005: Indianapolis Motor Speedway repaved its racing surface because it was getting bumpy and the cold Indiana winters aren't friendly to pavement, and Bridgestone had a ton of data because they own Firestone and they just handed all the data they had to Bridgestone because Firestone is the sole tire supplier for IndyCar, and Firestone had an entire month's worth of data

[@duckrutt]

Yup. Goodyear had (roughly) the same problems during NASCAR testing. Turns out diamond grinding the surface was maybe not the best idea.

[@patrickracer43]

@@duckrutt NASCAR had the exact same issue for the Coca-Cola 600 that year, because Speedway Motorsports Inc had repaved Charlotte Motor Speedway (at the time called Lowes Motor Speedway) and opted for diamond grinding the track to "levagate" the track and artificially age the surface and Goodyear brought the wrong tire (which wasn't the first time they bought the wrong tire to CMS in their long and storied NASCAR career)... Slapshoes actually talked about it in his video on the 2005 USGP

[@LightsOutLow]

of all the tidbits of 80s/90s F1 folklore, i've never heard this one! kudos!

[@blainebuchanan2491]

Love to see you do the story of the Senna test with Penske in 1993

[@BRMdrivingschool]

Could you do a story time on the 1999 Jordans season including the little reported time they got discovered using a traction control device that only got discovered because Hill and Frentzen had forgot to turn it off and it cut the engines out at the european gp and the will Damon Hill retire early saga that lead to Verstappen testing the car and put on standby in case he left.

[@tomanderson6335]

Would love to get Berger's recollections of that day (assuming it did in fact play out as Autosport described). Obviously we can't get Senna's, but there is a semi-well-known video clip of him from around this time on the American TV show "ESPN Speedweek." In it he talks about being intrigued by American racing and potentially entering an Indycar (or NASCAR!) race post F1 career. Whether that would have been on an oval and whether or not his interest was piqued by any taste of oval driving he got during the Marlboro shoot we'll never know...

[@T_Mo271]

Fascinating story I had never heard before.

[@Gordanovich02]

I could absolutely see a contemporary F1 car running the Indycars pretty close at Phoenix. But the really interesting one would have been Nazareth; slightly less than a mile, very low banking, and with noticeable elevation changes. More like a road course that only turns left.

[@DJDouglasWarden]

Wish Indycar still raced there

[@minigungaming5915]

I could absolutely see a contemporary F1 car annihilating the IndyCars at Phoenix

[@The52car]

Couldn't this scenario be tested in iRacing?

[@chapie62]

@@The52car i doubt you could set the f1 car up properly. Left side camber likely wont go past +.5 degrees

[@The52car]

Interesting because at just 1 mile in length, Phoenix is a relatively short track for Indycars. With more of the lap time spent in corners than on the straights, IndyCar teams would consider it a mid- to high-level downforce track, rathing than trimming out to minimize track like you would at Indianapolis (or Hockenheim).

[@michaelniemeyer2706]

Thank you greatly. I know I asked that question and had never heard this story. Well done.

[@natedoan5070]

Love seeing my home track in an f1 video

[@markl4670]

I was on the Mclaren race team from 1988 to 2000, and was on Ayrtons race car. Having been at pheonix in 91', I can confirm that I never visited pheonix oval or any other oval track.

[@blijvendvertrek]

What's your favourite memory of Ayrton?

[@mathewperring]

Intresting story, and yes that was the immediate thought I had when you pitched those two cars against each other.

[@tesseract_uk]

when Aidan says ‘i found on an internet’ my mind jumps to clarkson going ‘i went on the internet and i found this…’

[@Busch22Fan]

And mine jumps to Richard shouting something and turning away, James turning away and laughing, and Jeremy just looking around at the crowd like, "What?"

[@christopherwall2121]

@@Busch22Fan "And then I found THIS"

[@toddmurray589]

Fantastic content as always. Thank you for sharing. FYI - the short ovals (~1mile "Bullrings") and superspeedways were considered different disciplines in 1990s CART. Furthermore, the cars ran a high downforce "Road Course" wings package on the 1-mile ovals through 1998. Speeds and cornering force got silly. In 1998 fast qualifying speeds were AVERAGING 185mph around the mile ovals such as Milwaukee and Nazareth! CART then mandated the speedway wings for 1999, to slow things down a bit. Therefore, maybe a high-downforce setup would have yielded the fastest lap on the McLaren.

[@JohnDoe-td7mu]

Great video. I would also like to add that the HP is limited at ovals for most IndyCar races. They only run 550 HP at Indy and even at many short tracks the HP is only about ~600 HP iirc. I assume this also applied to cars back then, maybe a little higher. I think that's something a lot of people forget when it comes to the whole "how would an F1 car do on an Oval debate": an people always forget to consider that an F1 car wouldn't be allowed to run 1,000 HP. This is a problem I had with the Driver61 video a few months ago, talking about how an F1 car would fare at the Indy500. Yeah, an F1 car could reach 240 MPH if it was allowed to have 2x as much HP as the IndyCar. Granted, Phoenix is a short track (by Indy standards) so I assume the cars would have been running the full 850 HP (so the F1 car would have been within the rules).

[@danielhenderson8316]

IndyCar only started staggering boost levels when they adopted the 2.2L V6 turbo. Up to 2011, the same engine power was used on ovals and road courses with only aero and suspension differences.

[@davidjones5684]

Another great video. Would love to see you do a video on the history and fate of Rockingham. Unless you've already done one and I missed it.

[@lewiskemp5893]

I saw this on espn back then. Nice story

[@americanpride9733]

Im digging the new look of the channel

[@Djarra]

BMW and Williams took a couple of cars around the tri oval at Lausitz although mostly they would use variations of the road course or run the long oval for engine testing. I'm pretty sure The BBC filmed Button testing there during his debut year. Toyota also ran at Lausitz, although I don't know which configurations they used.

[@heimanlee5955]

Perhaps that's connected to how Emerson Fittipaldi once invited Senna to race Indy Car after Honda quitted F1 in 1992. This may be the key to some missing link...

[@pranc236]

Good find on the story! Had heard about this but with no real details. Thought it was a rumor only. Makes me wonder between this and the last story how much have indy cars been gutted…

[@zentrolm]

i heard almost every f1 story ,but not this one,great video as always

[@seancswash]

loving the new blue theme!

[@v10mclaren]

Honestly, if F1 ran one small oval like Milwaukee or Iowa it would probably become one of the most popular events on the calendar pretty quickly. Short oval open wheel races are incredible

[@mathewperring]

The feel of the whole pack blasting past at Iowa was incredible.

[@The52car]

Just imagine if the rest of the world new IndyCar already does such things!

[@lordkinbote74]

Sprint race on The Monza Oval!!! C'Mon party people!!!

[@arthuralford]

Never heard this story before, so thanks for doing a video on it. I wonder if this made it easier when Emerson Fittipaldi offered to get Sena a test in a Penske-a chance to take a top of the line Indycar 'round an oval?

[@DarrylHart]

Cool video Aidan.

[@rillistsrubbishracingchann3491]

My favourite Motorsport controversy has gotta be the Toyota cheat in WRC, as the officials said at the time, it was the most clever cheat they had ever seen.

[@Louzahsol]

If toyota had only won by a few seconds they would have never found it

[@scottmiller1531]

Indycar racing had a large impact on Marlboro's approach to sponsorship. Back in 1971, they sponsored the USAC championship trail, and put a great deal of money into the kitty. USAC, being largely clueless, didn't put any protections against other tobacco companies joining the series, so when Viceroy showed up in 1972 sponsoring Al Unser and Mario Andretti, Marlboro was not happy and left the series. From that point on, they put their resources into sponsoring teams and drivers, rather than sanctioning bodies.

[@tomanderson6335]

And NASCAR learned what NOT to do when Winston came along a couple years later.

[@arthurbretas2003]

Aidan we went on the Internet this week, and he found this: "obscene image". He also found this:

[@mbaz7444]

Not surprised by the speed of the F1 car at Phoenix. In fact if they would have installed an asymmetrical chassis setup I would think the lighter F1 car would be faster over a single lap because Phoenix requires good downforce to go fast. The problem as stated in the video, would be the engines, the IndyCar engines of the day could survive the sustained 11.5k rpm for longer than an F1 grand prix.

[@EffequalsMA]

Great story, Aidan!

[@johncolbert]

As someone who has worked as an engineer in Indycar and the NASCAR Cup series, I find this story extremely implausible on a number of levels. -The tires they would have had available to them that race weekend would have been completely ill-suited to running on an oval. At best they would have been burning up the tires every two or three laps. There is no way that Goodyear (their tire supplier at the time) would have condoned or supported this test without a special tire construction. To run even remotely fast on an oval would have required completely rebuilding the car's suspension from what you would run on a street circuit. In the case of a formula one team, that would require designing and building a number of parts that they would never need outside of an oval. Switching the car over from an oval to a road course typically takes a few days. Testing, especially for somebody like McLaren, even thirty years ago, is insanely expensive in terms of money and manpower. No team is ever going to send a team out testing without a well-defined purpose or goal in mind. Just to play around on an oval to see what they could do would have been a non-starter with management. -With all of the above facts in mind, there was an IMSA GTP team at around the same time who did a few demo laps on a Saturday night at Lanier Speedway (a local short oval) after they were done for the day at Road Atlanta across the street. -There was also one of the smaller teams that missed the show for the Phoenix GP one year who went testing at a road course across town for a day until the flight home.

[@The52car]

If the well defined purpose was a photoshoot and they only ran at speed for 2-3 laps, it's plausible.

[@amjan]

Phoenix is not really an oval. It's a flat track with 2 long corners. That's why IndyCar run a road setup there with a lot of wing- much more wing than F1 did on Hockenheim or does at Monza. A Catalunya set-up could be even better than a Hockenheim set-up. What a fantastic story anyway!!

[@de-fault_de-fault]

Traditionally (basically until the IRL) most of the ovals Indy cars raced on were flat short tracks, with a handful of superspeedways thrown in (Indianapolis, Michigan, Fontana, Pocono, depending on the year). I would hardly call short tracks like Milwaukee, Nazareth, New Hampshire, Phoenix, etc. "not ovals," though yes, they were better in high-downforce configuration. One of CART's stranger decisions during the split era was to mandate superspeedway wings for all the ovals including the short tracks. I think it was meant to reduce dirty air and encourage passing, but it actually made the cars even more sensitive to the wake of another car, since they barely had enough downforce to begin with.

[@RyanHellyer]

You have a strange definition of an oval.

[@amjan]

@@RyanHellyer You need to reflect more upon what you're reading to get the point, rather than just sticking to buzz words.

[@dschoene57]

In a way, although junior formula, this was done. German Formula 3 held two races at the Eurospeedway Oval, called the Eastside 100. One of the runners was a certain Nico Hulkenberg. It also saw the first pole and the first F3 podium by a female driver - Cyndie Allemann of Switzerland.

[@kallo182]

From my theoretical Know how, that is mostly based on Sim Games, i would say the "Monza Setup" will not work on an Oval, and that was the Major Mistake of the McLaren Guys back than. Monza have long straits, who need low Downforce. But beside of that Monza have a lot slow Corners. Slow Corners also dont need Downforce because the Car is so slow, that the Downforce Effect dont work. But on a Oval you have long Straits, and also High Speed Corners. So an F1 Setup of a High Speed Corner Track would be way better. Maybe Spa? Also slow Corners dont need Camber, while fast Corners need a lot of Camber. Means that a Monza Setup will not have much Camber, while an Oval Setup need big Camber.

[@neilcam]

Sorry Aidan, I'm LOVING this series about CART & the split, but I do have to note that essentially Indycar DOES have to design an all new car for the ovals compared to the road race & track cars. There's entirely different suspension, including the right side being an entirely different length/width from the left. Not to mention that it's not just the wings, but much of the aerodynamics are entirely different. So yes, F1 manufacturers would also have to design and build an entirely new chassis to do a one off oval race, especially if it was against indycars.

[@w0033944]

FYI, the former Penske designer Nigel Beresford has checked with former McLaren colleagues from this era who confirmed that it never happened. What I think is sad is that, on the forum in which he provided that information, this video, and Aidan's reputation, have been thoroughly lambasted.

[@AidanMillward]

FYI, I said it was probably not true in the video. Plus. What reputation?

[@w0033944]

@@AidanMillward Agreed - just letting people know that it was a myth; not that you were to know.

[@SpaceHCowboy]

@@w0033944 Yeah, the reputation comment never really aged well, now, did it? Great channel and videos Aiden. Keep it up.

[@PaperBanjo64]

Another interesting thing would be an IndyCar at Monza...they could use the regular engine package but with the Indy 500 aero package.

[@crusherbmx]

Since you are on this whole CART thing. here's an idea. Ex-F1 drivers, future F1 drivers and drivers that could have been F1 drivers but didn't for various reasons. Zanardi, Montoya, Villeneuve, Paul Tracy, Greg Moore, the Andrettis, Stefan Johanson, Jan Magnussen .....a bunch more. And of course Zabardi's epic pass on Herta at Laguna Seca

[@minibus9]

awesome video, not come across this story before

[@Slikx666]

It would be interesting to know how the two different cars would compare on a very short oval, maybe even a draw?!

[@art_connor_74]

I think on shorter ovals F1 cars could use the silly levels of downforce Indycars don't have and just be out right faster.

[@rs660alec]

7:16 sim racing move!

[@klaushaunstrupchristensen7252]

Great and highly interesting. I would absolutely love if you could dig into the story of the awkwardly looking McLaren Mp 4/5B with the high nose, inspired by Tyrell.

[@amaccama3267]

Interested to hear your thoughts and musings on the new FIA Pres.

[@Hesitatedeye]

F1 in 1989-91 were looking at doing a Oval series so it's entirely possible this might have been a quick huh lets see exactly what all the fuss is type thing. The plans were eventually dropped but it's one of those interesting What ifs.

[@jeremeymcdude]

Most people think of "Oval" as in a speedway oval. aka a 1.5 mile or over high banked Speedway. nobody ever looks at something like a short track race because that kind of track would actually be much more condusive to an F1 car. not only that but you could run a Monza setup and still have the downforce available as opposed to an Indycar running a short track aero setup which is the mid point of the Oval and Road setups. It's this whole misconception that people dont truly understand about oval racing and it's that there's more than 1 type of oval track that exists and it's not just the high speed, mash the gas and send it type tracks

[@AidanMillward]

But considering they had no experience with setting it up for ovals it’s still good going.

[@jeremeymcdude]

@@AidanMillward oh for sure but I've been sending the F1 cars on iRacing around old Phoenix and it's actually interesting the way the track works in comparison. at least in 2009 to now the F1 cars were at least a second faster at phoenix with medium to high downforce setups being the best for that specific track. The corners are tight, high Speed, and flat which means you still need to lean on your downforce. I can try something on RF2 and see how the CART/Indycars work in comparison. The usual Disclaimers apply: It's just a video game to those who arent Aiden and understand this concept.

[@1984ed101]

One bit of trivia related to the 20000rpm point: it wasn't just Ford but also Merc. The only driver to have taken a car to 20000rpm at a race weekend is Kimi Raikonnen in qualifying for the 2006 French Grand Prix.

[@WorldVsWorldOfficial]

Yeah I vaguely recall it happening. It’s not a rumour. Also, McLaren went but not Ferrari because Marlboro were a title sponsor - at the time they were known as “Marlboro McLaren…”. And I think it was also because the McLarens, like the Penskes, looked like cigarette packets with wheels bolted to them; whilst Ferrari looked like a Ferrari with a Marlboro logo on it.

[@DocProdusser]

thanks for another insight

[@AlistairMaxwell77]

This was interesting , never heard of it..... it would be worth posting on a few of the facebook indycar groups , lots of old cart ex team workers hang out . I am a little skeptical , it would have made a buzz at the time , probably would be talked about in the race broadcasts , was never mentioned in around the penske tests senna did ...... Anyway one thing to remember a 1mile short track oval , its kinda 4 road coarse corners . especially flat ones like milwaukee . indycar race the road/street aero packages on most of them , or a hybrid oval/street . on super speedways things get very different . oh and just a cool tidbit to drop the top trap speed record is 256.948 by Paul Tracy in 1996 at Michigan International Speedway. There was also the 250 club for drivers who had hit 250mph on the straight at Indy.

[@amjan]

Here you are - Ferrari F1 at Daytona: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHepnmN8hNmGbaM

[@jsquared1013]

@@amjan that's cool, but it's Corsa Clienti cars on the Roval layout, not quite the same 😁

[@AlistairMaxwell77]

@@jsquared1013 kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6C9l4djdtuoiZo 2020 f1 vs indycar at indianapolis oval.

[@RyanHellyer]

This story sounds a little surreal. Is there any chance this was just a tale from some guy down at the pub, after he had one too many beers? If this was a photoshoot, then where are the photos? A McLaren on an oval seems like something that would have been distributed far and wide.

[@naylindavies]

i know your a car racing channel but i’d love to hear you tell a motogp story, there’s few good motogp channel’s on youtube

[@Tunda2]

Need f1 back at Watkins Glen

[@Wangster1385]

I have a vague recollection of a CART broadcast when Stefan Johansson made his oval debut, where he was quoted to have done a test similar to this in his McLaren days. But I don't know any further details.

[@y_fam_goeglyd]

Didn't know about that. I can _definitely_ see them doing it! I mean, as you said, empty track, cars, drivers and crew - what else were they going to do? I'll bet they had a lot of fun!

[@RomanShopa]

I thought the lowest downforce was used for Monza. Hockenheim had the longest 1-mile long straight, but Monza has no Motodrom section. BTW, even in late 2000s teams would design special chassis for one race only - Monza. And even would run a dedicated testing just before September. I wonder if these chassis used to be designed for Hockenheim, too, before 2002.

[@PAS100170]

Did you ever look into the 1978 Indy in the UK tour? I was at the Silverstone event that didn't happed due to rain. They did some demo lops and raced at Brands.

[@comrade9367]

Nice video very interesting

[@TM-mg9sq]

Phoenix is lower banked and slower than most ovals. I think of all the ovals Phoenix might be one of the best suited for an F1 car out there. Can't think of a better one really.

[@AlistairMaxwell77]

millewakee is totally flat and indycars use a road/street aero kit for it.

[@jonnyspa27]

They’ve changed Phoenix considerably since this test. Has more of a bowl shape and what was the backstretch kink is more of an extension of the old turn 2. Suited better for NASCAR than even Indycars now.

[@The52car]

@Annihilation Maximization Milwaukee isn't *totally* flat; it's about the same as IMS actually. ::edit:: and apparently PHX was also the same lol

[@Eibarwoman]

Milwaukee and New Hampshire given the low banking of 9 and 3 degrees respectively.

[@theabsolutedrive]

While it is interesting, Phoenix is a 1 mile oval. Top speeds in Indy cars aren’t even close to being tested there. A true test of the speed difference would be at IMS.

[@The52car]

Yeah, Phoenix would still be a pretty high downforce track.

[@charlesklass4209]

Welp it's 3am, I have work tomorrow, and i'm loading Rfactor2

[@Olivyay]

While I believe it's possible McLaren would have tested for fun at the Phoenix oval with the old cars, I don't think they could have "used an Hockenheim setup", as the wings used for Hockenheim in those days were special very thin ones designed only for that track and Monza. The team would not have brought low downforce wings for the trip to the Phoenix street race. However the Phoenix oval isn't a superspeedway, it's a short oval, and the ChampCars also used quite a big rear wing on it (even today, on lower speed ovals like Iowa and Gateway the IndyCars use the same aero setup as for the street and road courses), so maybe McLaren was able to lap quickly with a Phoenix street-track wing.

[@pgale]

There was a modified Williams fw07 in Indycar back in the day. Can't recall who owned it. A lot of the 07 chassis where sold.

[@The52car]

Are you thinking the Chaparral 2K? Not literally a Williams, but the ground effects design was largely copied of F1.

[@pgale]

@@The52car no mate 1981 Al Unser SNR drove it.

[@ousley421]

I was certain the Cosworth turned almost 22k rpm during practice one weekend

[@allainangcao28]

I think it would be true considering Ayrton might have been the one to suggest it, he would do some tests for Penske later on and considering he was with Berger, I can 100% tell madness when on in those two’s heads.

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

So this week I learned about F1 testing on ovals and NASCAR's L-R car. I feel like next it'll be Can-Am planning an endurance race and rallycross considering a category for GT3 cars.

[@crismairo]

GT3 in rallycross? YES PLEASE

[@plisskenationbackfromthede3657]

@@crismairo reminds me of an april fools post by imsa where they said they were gonna hold the rolex 24 on the supercross track 😆

[@The52car]

Can-Am cars on a 1/4 mile dirt oval please

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

@@crismairo I'm definitely for it, not ag'in it. I'm pretty sure Porsche could cobble together a competitive 911 and give the 959 an interesting successor.

[@gatorred157]

i also heard senna & imdy car test with pensky in Tracy car! on a road course

[@Kennyaj123]

What’s the song or lick in the introduction? Sure I’m not the first to ask…

[@dylanzrim3635]

Must be over 15celcius in England, my man is sweating

[@DJDouglasWarden]

that's pretty cool after a photo shoot they got some time to kill and they're like fuck it let's run some laps

[@ooammo632]

No video? What a jip

[@AshleyMunday]

Does anyone know the issue of Autosport this story was in? I've got a pile from 1994 somewhere but don't fancy digging through to find it.

[@GR1MRACER]

ISM is a strange track. Although its a oval, its turns are all different.

[@cpkdiecast]

Lewis Hamilton had an F1 car (or at least something that looks like an F1 car, who knows) on track at Pocono Raceway for a sponsor photoshoot a few years back, but outside of doing some donuts on the front straightaway, I doubt anyone took a full lap around the track.

[@mickcompagnoni1114]

If it was Senna starting mid pack, the McLaren would have mysteriously found an extra 0.6 seconds on race day.

[@johnbremner5339]

you mentioned that the Indy 500 was part of the championship, you forgot to mention The Race Of Two Worlds at Monza, Indy Cars, F1, and even a Jaguar thrown into the mix... Also, check out the 1971 Quasar Grand Prix at Ontario Motor Speedway, F1 vs F5000

[@AidanMillward]

Just because it wasn’t mentioned doesn’t mean I forgot.

[@PointNemo9]

​@@AidanMillward Why do you have such an argumentative attitude in the comments?

[@AidanMillward]

@@PointNemo9 This guy said I forgot to mention the Race of Two Worlds when I didn't 'forget' at all. Wouldn't say that's argumentative.

[@PointNemo9]

@@AidanMillward Quite defensive though

[@bartomiejczerwinski5897]

Astonishing story. I've never heard about it. Do You have any sources that verify Your claims?

[@PointNemo9]

No he doesn't

[@bartomiejczerwinski5897]

@@PointNemo9 I am not sure. Aidan seems to be a nice guy with a lot of subscribers. Would he take such story out of his ass?

[@robertjones9200]

It will never happen and the teams will fight it, but I would like to see F1 have a go at a oval race. Maybe if Miami falls though let’s to homestead, maybe get nascar there two. To strengthen f1 appearance in the states

[@DocProdusser]

Yes! A more fun-touch to the thing wouldn't be bad for the sport.

[@amjan]

Here you are - F1 Ferrari at Daytona: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHepnmN8hNmGbaM

[@crusherbmx]

Not sure if it is true or not, but if it is, very impressive. I wonder if they pulled this off using a modified F1 set up or if they maybe borrowed a few parts and ideas from Penske to give the cars a proper oval set up, which id WAY different and I'm sure I'm not the only one pointing this out. BUT YA, if they could get those times without going full oval and just tuning an F1 set up, thats very interesting.

[@LoganHunter82]

Wohoo!! 2:22

[@ryanwenzel9976]

if only there was footage 🥲

[@hart-of-gold]

I thought, in the case of Ferrari they wanted Marlboro, because Marlboro looked much brighter on camera than Italian Racing Red.