The Timeline Where Sonic Succeeds

If you like my content, please consider supporting me on Patreon!
/ jebtube
A wise hedgehog once said... "This might not end well." However... today, I would like to lean more towards an optimist than a realist.
0:00 - Patreon + Intro
0:27 - Laying the Ground Rules
4:07 - CHAPTER 1 | Sonic Heroes
17:53 - Sixth-Gen Side Projects
30:55 - CHAPTER 2 | Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)
49:47 - Seventh-Gen Side Projects
55:29 - CHAPTER 3 | Sonic Unleashed
1:12:53 - Sonic Colors
1:18:37 - CHAPTER 4 | Sonic Generations
1:31:36 - The Wii U Deal
1:38:17 - CHAPTER 5 | Sonic Forces
2:10:04 - What Lies Ahead...?
2:13:00 - CONCLUSION | What Lies Ahead
-----------------------------------------
Here's my Twitter, if ever you wish to see what I'm up to: / jebtube
And also my Twitch, the main hub for livestream action: / jebdottv

[@CaptainStage]

I dream of a timeline where people say "man the Adventure games really didn't age well, since every single Sonic game following them is so much better"

[@satelliteprime]

This comment is underrated as hell

[@howsitgoingbros3711]

Idk, Mario 64 is still considered to have aged well compared to all the great Mario games that came after it

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

@@howsitgoingbros3711 I've heard some people say otherwise.

[@locomotivo4644]

@@howsitgoingbros3711 I'd say, Mario Galaxy fits more for that kind of description. To me it almost feels like Mario 64, despite its revolutionary aspects of that time, is nowadays remembered mostly by the infamous backjump glitch.

[@omegaproductions6660]

@@howsitgoingbros3711 Kid this is Sonic not Mario so SHUT UP

[@chiptunepacifist5729]

That bit with Vector asking Eggman where his money is after taking over the world is the most giga-brained of callbacks

[@smashmaster521]

In this alternate timeline, the role of Vector the Crocodile is played by Luke Cage. Where's his money, honey?

[@charmyzard]

I figured Eggman might try to swing with the Chaotix using that incentive. He makes contact with Vector to give him that money, and between lines, promises more if Vector joins him. Espio and Charmy would automatically object to it, but Vector's greed gets the better of him at first, untill he beats it and goes back with his friends. Fun story arc idea.

[@omegaproductions6660]

I don’t get the call back

[@dolomite1067]

@@omegaproductions6660 At the end of Sonic Heroes, Eggman said that once he conquers the world, he'll pay the Chaotix for the wild goose chase he sent them on. And since in Sonic Forces, he actually DOES take over the world, the Chaotix would ask where their money is.

[@goldenboybenny7511]

I don’t think vector would actually be thinking that when the war going on. That would be character flanderasation far worse then what ever happened in are timeline.

[@sonic5993]

I feel like this video touches upon probably the fundamental problem with Sonic nowadays from both a fan and developer perspective. Everyone is so traumatized by the mistakes made by this series, they can't see forward. Its always about what Sonic can't do or what he shouldn't be, and the 2010's are the culmination of that; we've lost so much from this series that there's nothing left but people clinging to their nostalgic memories, because we're too deathly afraid of moving forward out of fear of having another 06. We need to start thinking less about what Sonic was, and what he shouldn't be, and start thinking about what Sonic CAN be. Everyone needs to get over this collective fear that 06 put in all of us, otherwise Sonic is just going to remain as he is now forever. Everyone needs to start sitting down and really ask themselves "How can Sonic the Hedgehog move forward towards the future?"

[@chi-wind8593]

I've asked myself this very question and what I came up with was. Look at the series and said we need to let Sonic be Sonic. No mandates, no restrictions, and just genuine heart to make a great game.

[@sunlitsonata6853]

I really hope Frontiers can do that. There clearly seems to be steps to move Sonic into a new era, with the “open zone” gameplay, an Ian Flynn penned game plot, suggestions that it’ll shake up the series in a similar way that Adventure did way back when, and visually, a game that seems to actually push current gen hardware that would probably look great on 9th gen. Only time will tell, and while we haven’t seen the final product, the internal delay could definitely help a lot given the history of undercooked releases

[@smashmaster521]

@@sunlitsonata6853 I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but SEGA just hasn't given me a lot of reason to trust them. People complained about how Capcom used to treat Mega Man, but at least they were far more consistent with the Blue Bomber, to say nothing of how they managed to bounce back with Mega Man 11 and the Legacy Collections.

[@sunlitsonata6853]

@@smashmaster521 X6 and X7 aside. That view could change as more of the game is shown, but it does seem like they’re heading in a more confidant direction rn

[@smashmaster521]

@@sunlitsonata6853 I did say Capcom was more consistent with Mega Man, not perfect.

[@akagi3939]

I wish I could say, "Sonic '07 is a timeless modern Sonic game and should be ported to PC."

[@Chillipeffer]

SADX.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Project '06 ftw.

[@torchrandom9059]

Okay but the name “Sonic Solute” tho

[@charmyzard]

"Sonic 07, the game that intermingled the Transformers and Sonic fanbases ever since." What a dream world! :D (to me at least.)

[@zf10studios52]

@@autobotstarscream765 FACTS!

[@aidanhammans9337]

The whole “Choose your super team” thing would have been awesome, but we can add a epic detail. The 3 Characters you chose would each have dialogue, Sonic mentioning how he never gets bored of this, Tails and Knuckles mentioning how they almost forgot about the feeling of being Super, Shadow mentioning that they and Eggman and them are now on equal footing, Silver mentioning the familiarity, Rouge mentioning that she always wondered what it was like to be Super, Amy mentioning how she feels closer to Sonic already, Charmy expressing delight at the feeling, Espio mentioning how this will make their job much easier, Vector mentioning that him doing this is revenge for Eggman stiffing them all that time ago, and of course, Omega saying: Power level at 1000 percent. I’m serious now Eggman, I, will, kill, you.

[@b0xE_]

Tails never went Super canocily (that word is hard to spell) it was just a carbon copy of sonics with a lil unique paths to balance the gameplay. edit: not all carbon he can still but basically whqt im saying he never went super.

[@pranavanand7346]

@@b0xE_ Sonic Heroes had them be in their lil shields so just pretend its that

[@maxentirunos]

@@b0xE_ Tails has a super form in Sonic 3

[@JezElectro13]

Omega shoud say: Power level: Over 9000

[@axelinedgelord4459]

@@maxentirunos &Knuckles Also it required super emeralds

[@TheBlueGhoul]

If we ever invent inter-dimensional travel this is the first universe i go to. Its gotta be out there somewhere.

[@Angel-qj1ep]

Out of anywhere you can go?..

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

Anywhere but here. Every IP is the healthiest WITHOUT their Trekkies and converted Jedi who only call it "success" if they get to pretend they inhale the IP 24/7. And pretend they do, because no normal person would need to cry about SPOILERS all the time, just once or twice a decade when their ONE actual most important thing gets released. And what are we crying about here, oh yeah "sonic 'fails' due to bad continuity, more stuff for us to evade spoilers for". Every fandom becomes like the cult of selected people who are able to SPEAK on their various little mythologies exemplifying life. Live a life. Have character, watch some shows with episodes out of order, have an imagination to PREDICT when the bad guy is the hero's father, OR when it's less derivative than that. Have some parasocial empathy for OTHERS than the peddled Main Character, delivering the peddled propaganda about TRUE heroism. You're not with the main character all the time, and if you're starved for that fantasy then fix your own life first. If you're feeling entitled to NEVER leave that fantasy, fix your life AND the crap you're consuming. The tiniest bit of antifragility does wonders for our pandemic problem with "broken immersion" and immunodeficiency against spoilers.

[@freakyfunkyflux]

@@sboinkthelegday3892 ive gotta say you had me completely on the last paragraph, i think branching out with how you consume media is fantastic. However i don't think that this was ever the point of this little discussion, it was about how if traveling to alternate universes(AU) existed, the AU that op would travel to would have the best outcome for sonic as a franchise. Op sounds enthusiastic about this subject, i don't think theres any reason to start an argument here, even if its unrelated to the original topic. As a sonic fan, engaging in discussion/thinking about what the franchise couldve been is something i do very often, this franchise had fallen from grace and its fallen HARD. Theres so many different things to enjoy about sonic, and seeing the current state of the franchise is honestly a little disheartening, so we can use all the optimism we can get.

[@johnsmith-ir1ne]

It's gotta be fast

[@b0xE_]

My man you better take me with you or so help me. 😤

[@ChampionAzure]

This video is honestly more important than people think. This isn't revisionist propaganda to make Adventure the Apex, its a retrospective on what is causing Sonic to struggle and how Sega can do better going forward. This shows the "potential" because at the end of the day, the blunders of Sonic are on Sega and every "correction" since '06 is a knee-jerk reaction to criticism. All I've ever wanted is solid gameplay with a cohesive story. Amazing job on the video Jeb, keep at it.

[@RickySama240]

A cohesive story is definitely something Sega & Sonic Team has had trouble with this past decade. Sure they mention it comedically, but it isn't truly cannon within. I honestly think they really wanted Sonic games to cater towards kids and that a good story isn't needed for this series.

[@ChampionAzure]

@@RickySama240 I'll take the good gameplay then, I just need something

[@AK46supr]

It is propaganda to make adventure the apex. But it does give interesting ideas for evolutions for fans of that gameplay/era

[@ChampionAzure]

Not necessarily. This alternate timeline is based on if Sega isn't as experimental and stuck to what works. It isn't to dissuade peoples preferences but to encourage the bigger possibility of what if

[@AK46supr]

@@ChampionAzure what worked was, classic gameplay, adventure gameplay, and boost gameplay. This video purely focused on adventure gameplay and how he felt that would have led to a better timeline in his opinion. Its purely preferential imagination

[@embani]

Not to undermine the rest of the video at all, the whole thing's pretty grand, but this little excerpt between 2:15:28 - 2:17:29 I think Is especially important.

[@sketchsskotch1073]

"society"

[@ASOtheprO]

Yeah this part was probably most important aspect in relation to how sonic’s received today. We truly live in a society 😞

[@stormcutter59]

This excerpt right here is what makes me come to videos like this. I'm against cliches and Fandoms, and the Sonic Fandom especially, has become a cliche. They don't think on their own two feet, they have to abide by the "sides" and unofficial rules of how our opinion must be if it's to be taken seriously. This channel truly just says it how it is and that's what I love about it. No beating around the bush. This series has issues, MAJOR issues, and if we are to see a better future for it we must DEMAND it until it is delivered to us otherwise this mediocrity will last forever. The series will stay stagnant and we won't be happy as fans if we don't reject what Sonic has become and perpetuate what it could be with not only what has worked, but what CAN work.

[@jaredhebert942]

Long time no see! Always glad to see your input on Sonic and game design at large; hope you've been doing well & enjoying life as best you can! (:

[@Just_Daze]

Jeb in that timeline: The Timeline Where Sonic Failed and he says exactly the same things that made our timeline's Sonic "bad"

[@b0xE_]

🤢🤭😆🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@lucasmendes3219]

If only Sonic was good, the world would be a better place, no more hunger and fear. What have you fone Sega 😭😭

[@Breakaway-ic5gj]

JebTube: Shattered Glass ?

[@malum9478]

evil jeb be like

[@maxtube444]

@@Breakaway-ic5gj I understand that reference

[@sammyclassicsonicfan289]

I love your ideas, I agree with almost everything you said! However I don't think it's unreasonable for Sonic Mania to still exist in a better timeline. Sonic Mania was more of an experiment than an attempt at saving the series like Sonic Colors or Sonic 4. I don't even think Sega really wanted Mania to succeed as much as it did. They tied it into Sonic Forces as they had more faith in that game, but of course they had no idea that Sonic Mania would end up being the game that carried Forces. Sonic Mania was a great standalone game, and as you said there'd be no reason for the stories to be connected as well as Classic Sonic being in Forces. But as I was saying Mania could easily exist as a side project for the Christian Whitehead team. If the enhanced ports of Sonic 1 & Sonic 2 still exist in this timeline Mania isn't far-fetched. Who knows, Sega may even give them the go-ahead to call it Sonic 4? I like the title of Sonic Mania though so in my head I'm sticking with that. Sega would recognize there's still a lot of love for the original Sonic games after Sonic Generations, so a new 2D Sonic that's treated as more of a successor to the originals would make sense.

[@JebZone]

I'm sure you get this a lot, but like... Thank you so much for commenting on my video. This truly is a full circle moment of my life. And yes, I do believe some *form* of Mania would happen eventually... though would it be quite like the one we know? I have doubt.

[@sergiorubens8475]

Hey its sammy

[@brunoais]

@@JebZone Agreed

[@yungmuney5903]

Holy fuck its the legend himself

[@pinkie723]

@@JebZone I think the biggest change for Mania in this better timeline would be that there would be more original stages since reusing old stages was Sega's call, and in this better timeline Sega doesn't nostalgia pander like they do in our timeline. Mania would be free to be it's own unique game without clinging onto the past like so many other recent Sonic games

[@goldslip-ons]

23:16 I never noticed that the half of the moon was blown off in Sonic P-06. I'm glad you spotted that out.

[@KYRA_RISING]

I lowkey thought that was just vanilla 06 for a sec. Well played ChaosX, well played

[@ericholysword8306]

@@CarbonRollerCaco I mean it’s just wanting to keep continuity. Not really losing shit imo

[@joshuahecht6866]

Wouldn’t the half moon create the literal end of the world due to the gravity being screwed up?

[@FlintandStone1]

@@joshuahecht6866 Idk, Angel Island falling into the ocean would probably end all life around the island, on the island, and cause mass tsunamis on every shore nearby. I think we can _just_ _slightly_ suspend our disbelief lol

[@SparklingJam]

The piss forever changed the moon

[@DrUpauli]

It's really crazy how Sonic 06 and how bad it was changed the timeline completely

[@BillDozer]

There's always been 3 alternate timelines that I've been interested in visiting: 1.) A timeline where Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4 exists. 2.) One where Sonic 06 wasn't rushed. (Which would ideally be the timeline that you created) 3.) One where Spongebob was cancelled in 2004 like it was supposed to be. (Just out of absolute curiosity) Seriously as someone who likes Sonic 06 as it is in our timeline, this timeline would be a dream come true, and "Sonic Evolution" could have even ended up being one of my favorite games of all time. I also want this version of Sonic Forces so badly, that game had so much potential, but I think it's the most disappointing game that I've ever played, and is the prime example of how just because a game has amazing ideas, it doesn't automatically mean that the game itself is going to be good.

[@maxleon61702]

Yeppppppppp.

[@connorlove9149]

Or, what if a timeline where all 3 three of those things happen

[@BillDozer]

@@connorlove9149 That would work too.

[@jadetheartist873]

What about a Ren and Stimpy: Adult Party Cartoon that is actually good?

[@fikridroid]

Same, and also one where Final Fantasy Versus XIII was released instead of Final Fantasy XV for me

[@sonicsaiyan07]

One thing regarding Sonic Unleashed and other characters that I've mentioned before is about Knuckles. I remember hearing rumors that Knuckles and Shadow were considered being added but were cut. I think Knuckles could've fit nicely with story justification: When the guys find out they have to restore the Chaos Emeralds to fix the world, have them go to Angel Island to see if the Master Emerald can do it (maybe throw in a boss fight between Werehog Sonic and Knuckles because seeing them fight would be sick). Have Knuckles explain that the Master Emerald CAN'T fix the Chaos Emeralds right now because ITS power is keeping the world together. That being said, Knuckles realizing the situation offers to help however he can and Angel Island gets added as another hub world.

[@aozorahaou2643]

Maybe have Knuckles be pissed at Sonic being reckless with the Emeralds which is the cause of the world breaking apart in Unleashed, which can eventually lead into the Emeralds being omitted out in later games after Generations

[@GregCubed]

Crazy how the adventure games in this timeline would probably be looked back on as rudimentary, unlike our timeline where we still have to view them as some of the best this series has to offer

[@KYRA_RISING]

Rudimentary, apart from the Chao Garden perhaps. That’s probably the biggest way it’s set apart from any of the games that followed. I’m honestly surprised Jeb didn’t say anything about putting a Chao Garden in any part of his timeline. It would probably work great in Gens, as part of the 3D hubworld. It’s a game all about callbacks, it just makes perfect sense

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

Are they good games? Yes. Are they two of the best? Far from it.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

would love to live in that timeline...

[@nuibaba280]

It would be cool if the modern games outshined the original. Like how Kirby is doing that.

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

@@nuibaba280 but games like Generations do.

[@ChaddyFantome]

I think the whole point of Infinite saying "you are not worth finishing off" is supposed to be a callback to how Shadow did that to him. People with trauma are known to repeat the action into others. It does my heart so so good to see other people that grasp what they were going for with Infinite. The pieces and building blocks are all there. The game itself just doesn't do enough with them. Infinite is a character who was so afraid of his own sense of weakness, he gave up on himself to mask that pain. He fought Shadow to avenge his fallen allies and was not able to do so. The themes are there. It's just stitched together and told so anemicaly.

[@XJ9LoL]

Just because it wasn't explained all in one game doesn't make it bad. Shadow developed a lot after sonic adventure 2, and this was after he was meant to die but returned due to fans liking him. Infinite could be the same. It's called grey space, where just because it wasn't explained, doesn't mean there isn't a reason/can't exist.

[@precieux6303]

Fr, I always liked the idea of that Episode Shadow cutscene, I thought Infinite should've been a villain with a very flawed character. Having a villain built by the character's insecurities in the Sonic series would've made him soooo unique. Such a shame how the execution fell so painfully flat.

[@spoonybard2380]

i think my biggest gripe with infinite isn't even the character himself, but the characters his story hinges on. more specifically, how those characters were mishandled for the sake of making infinite work. i genuinely believe under the writing of forces, infinite is a genuinely interesting character and a unique antagonist to the series that was simply mishandled by a lack of passion or confidence in the writing. however, a major turning point for his character hinges on shadow acting really out of character and being cartoonishly mean for no reason. i feel like shadow, even at his worst, wouldn't bother taking the time to verbally mock an opponent he took down so easily, and i also think that had shadow simply dismissed infinite and left in silence after beating him, as if he were just another nameless, faceless, obstacle, the impact of "you aren't worth finishing off" would've been felt a lot better, while still retaining some level of respect for shadow's characterization.

[@justcallmekai1554]

@@XJ9LoL The thing with Shadow in Sa2 is that with isolation to solely that game, there is a clear beginning middle and end. And for the most part things do get explained well and the motivation of the character is justified and that soild foundation is built upon in later games. With Infinte, they hardly mention his Squad nor do we know them enough for us to care. It's the equivalent of not showing Maria and her issue and the cause and imapct of her death. His foundation is confused and leaves the story in an anticlimactic manner (basically leaving no lasting imapct). Hell his motivation for most ppl looks like he got beat up a bit and got called weak once. What should have happened was he was called weak but he instead says "WE are not weak". This could imply his team were low ranking mercenaries and weren't well respected and questions his leadership especially the fact that they were dead cause of his incompetence. Idk something than what we got.

[@jerm70]

@@XJ9LoL The problem is that Shadow has a clear motivation and goal made apparent from the beginning. We see his face and hear his tone clearly. Shadow's origin didn't need to be explained because the here and now is important. Infinite's goals and motivations is basically "cuz im evil and shit" which is fine for a basic villain but not when you try to take it seriously you need something to back that up. Goals and motivations is what makes a villain relatable. When you have a villain that does stuff for little reason it is jarring. Infinite comes off as trying too hard to be edgy when he would be perfect if his motivations would be set right. "Sonic insulted me and called me weak so I worked with the doctor to obtain a new identity to prove him wrong. I will destroy this world just to watch Sonic's dumbfounded face right before I end him." It would make Infinite's character a lot better.

[@MetalHyper0]

So, I watched through the entirety of this video, not just because of its great quality but also because this is a situation I've found myself thinking about a lot as well, albeit in a much more scatterbrained manner. A lot of these you mentioned about development resonated with me, particularly with just how much Sonic Team had on its plate around 2004-2006. There were 3 mainline games being created back-to-back, as well as in conjunction with each other, later 4 once 06's Wii port became Secret Rings, and that's without even glancing at the side games, it's no shock that the missteps that happened during that period occurred. As for some more specific comments, the way Forces' story was reworked really added to what this hypothetical alternate reality version of the game could've been, and while above everything I do value gameplay in these, as I just want a really fun game, I think it helps in illustrating how integral story in these games is to the personality and stage presence that has either been misused or lacking in recent times. As you said "the franchise isn't in a position where it's too late" and I wholeheartedly agree, if anything I feel like if they've been able to pick themselves back up from some of the major blunders they've had previously, then there's not a whole lot they can't come back from. (As a quick addendum here, I just wanted to say I always enjoy seeing your content pop up, since I love these types of long form videos you make, and you were a huge inspiration for me to start making videos of my own, stay cool Jeb)

[@uc520aaa]

"Vector would ask Dr. Eggman where the fuck the money is at now that he's taken over the world" God this line genuinely makes me laugh lol

[@renejustinnillo3087]

If time travel was real, I really like to visit two timelines: one where COVID did not happen and this timeline. Everyone knows that reality is often disappointing nowadays.

[@satelliteprime]

When you got to talking about Unleashed and the Boost, I was prepping to make a lengthy comment about how the Mach speed sections of 06 would make for a fantastic Day-stages middle ground, and when you actually brought up that point in the video I audibly shouted "YES!!" like an absolute dork. Really great video, lmao.

[@OmegaBlacky]

Yo same here man, I'm absolutely fine living in a world without 3D boost era sonic, I don't hate it, I really like generations and colors, but I can't help but to sometimes imagine how much better they could of been, had they used and improved upon the speed character mechanics from adventure 1&2.

[@satelliteprime]

@@OmegaBlacky Agreed, very much so. The Boost formula is full stop, my favorite playstyle in the series, but it is inherently very limited in its scope and pretty resource-intensive whilst simultaneously removing a great deal of the appeal from previous incarnations of 3D Sonic from the equation entirely, things that could have and should have become more polished with time but instead just disappeared when it became the standard for the series. I just don't think Boost gameplay is worth the toll it takes on 3D Sonic as a whole, especially when with a few minor tweaks we could easily retain the best of what it has to offer without eliminating what we had before.

[@furious_pie466]

@@satelliteprime what’s this? someone who loves something yet is actually able to admit its flaws and issues this brings a tear to my eye

[@charmyzard]

Kinda thought about Mephiles in Forces as well, exept that he IS the one behind Time Eater and the Phantom Ruby. Vanquished ino non-existence, he created his own pocket space, NULL space, to try to do "minuscule ammounts of tomfoolery" on the universe to create a crack and get back. Infinite is slowly consumed by the Phantom Ruby's power, becoming Mephiles' pawn who he uses to get back into reality and ruin everyone's day after they believe they are over having defeated Eggman. True final boss time to tie 2 incidents together.

[@galfinsp7216]

I’ll believe it once it’s made canon.

[@charmyzard]

@@galfinsp7216 It'll never be, SEGA just doesn't care. Never said it's real though, just a thought for the birds.

[@ThisGreenDingo]

Starting at Sonic Heroes was the right move, Sonic 1 - Sonic Adventure 2 felt like when the series' main concepts, story beats, ideas, gameplay design and characterization were the most "Sonic-Like" and going forward after that, things starting jumping around.

[@cillbipher2613]

Man, things really woulda been different in many ways if '06 was good.

[@howsitgoingbros3711]

World peace would've been achieved, starving children would have been fed

[@KYRA_RISING]

I’m lowkey a bit conflicted after this. It felt so surreal to watch as the perfect Sonic continuity unfolded before my eyes, but I’m also bitter that this incredible idea may never make it into game form, official or fanmade, at least not for many years. But it’s still an amazing, almost touching retelling of Sonic’s story. I was especially hit hard by your ending statement “Don’t evade, evolve”. I hope that’s what Sega is doing. Heck, I think all of us fans have something to learn from those three words. Even with all the uncertainty, I personally believe there’s no such thing as giving up on a franchise, especially one that you care about enough to want to actively do your part to make it better. Granted, I’m no fangame dev, Sonictuber, or anything of the sort, but maybe that’s still okay. All that matters is keeping your head held high and your eyes on the future. After all, Sonic said it himself at the end of the Japanese version of Forces: “Always keep moving forward. If you do that… we’ll always be together.” EDIT: Come to think of it, I’m surprised you never seemed to mention the Chao Garden. It’s only fair that it could come back, even just once, at some point after the Adventure duo. My idea is that it would be in Gens (literally THE game of callbacks and nostalgia) as part of the 3D hubworld, and it would maybe gain some cool features as you collect red rings, something like that

[@VintageSpaceRay]

5:25 This segment is so important. The Playstation 2 version of Heroes was the only version I had access to for years. It was easily my least favorite game in the series because it was so hard to control and I had no idea why it was so different from the previous two. Only as an adult with access to the internet was I able find out about the control and collision issues exclusive to that version. It took over a decade for me to re-evaluate the game on Gamecube and come to realize how fun it is, long after that realization mattered. I'd imagine there were a LOT of kids with PS2s that were turned off from that game due to a rushed port job, never knowing that the game itself was actually pretty solid.

[@lynxfresh5214]

The same with the Dreamcast versions of the adventure games compared to the inferior ports they got later on. It's honestly shocking how a port can affect public preconception. There's a reason SA2 Dreamcast is the overall highest rated 3D Sonic game of all time while the ports received mixed feedback.

[@wreday720]

Sonic heroes was the first sonic game i ever played and I didnt even know this until you said it wtf - thats like my biggest gripe with the game. Might need to emulate it and see this for myself

[@SoulfulZane]

It's nice to see into the mind of someone who still cares for the series, unfortunately bluntly implying I do not, but there's still things I like. Maybe if this were the timeline we lived in, I would also still be a fan... I like the positivity you brought, and I apologize for the cynicism but from the perspective of an outsider looking in, it's hard to walk away happy knowing we got the shitty timeline. But I'm also just cynical in general so Great video! Admirable passion! Slick writing! Cabrera has taught you well.

[@pokuhmoo9415]

Do you think sonic frontiers will make u a fan again?

[@SoulfulZane]

@@pokuhmoo9415 I don't, if it ends up being good enough that I get it and like it, then sweet! But it'd take a lot more than that to bring me back

[@bigbluebuttonman1137]

Unfortunately, I am in the position of "Sonic hope-r." I hope it gets better. I do have the luxury of having avoided actually playing most of Sonic's...crappier adventures ('06, Shadow The Hedgehog, Rise of Lyric, though I still played Lost World and...didn't enjoy it that much). But as a franchise, it's really not looking good. It's stagnated. And I can't consider myself a fan of Sonic in the same way I'd consider myself a fan of Mario, or Kirby. I don't really play Legend of Zelda games, but I respect it more as a series than Sonic The Hedgehog. Which is kind of sad, when I've played far more Sonic than Zelda.

[@austinreed7343]

@@SoulfulZane I think maybe you bought Mania, as well.

[@Mr.encore]

I think we should really just start building a time machine like right now and get the tools we needed to go back in time to after adventure 2 and use this video to change the entire timeline and mabey if everthing did not change in the present we can stay in a split timeline

[@LucasMBoysOurRoy]

Mostly agree, but relegating the Wii just to party spin offs would be a terrible decision. Keep in mind that SA2's popularity on the GameCube kept Sonic relevant today. To completely abandon their largest customer base would be blatantly ignoring a huge market. Many Wii owners like myself wished that the big budget titles weren't exclusive to more powerful consoles, leaving Nintendo fans with the scraps unless they wanted to fork over a lot of money for a console they would only buy for Sonic. As much as I dislike Colors and Lost World, they filled the gap that Nintendo consoles were missing from its competitors. The Wii U deal made sense at the time since Nintendo was basically Sega's right hand man. Yes it destroyed them, but it had reasoning out into it.

[@myfellowsonicfans7131]

You Nintendo fans literally broguht about the failure of Sonic and made it what it is today, people like you and Jeb here. The GayCube's pozzed version of SA2 had nothing to do with keeping Sonic relevant, all it did was bring in you crazies who demanded the destruction of Sonic.

[@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034]

@@myfellowsonicfans7131 name checks out lmao

[@satelliteprime]

@@myfellowsonicfans7131 I don't even enjoy playing SA2B and Colors is my least favorite of the Boost Sonic games. My favorite 2D Sonic game is Sonic 3K, and it's a strong contender for my favorite in the series, tied with Generations in that regard. Having said that, if not for childhood exposure to Sonic via SA2B, and exposure to Colors on the Wii in my early teens, I would not even have become a Sonic fan. I wonder how many people were like me. And before you chide me for being one of the younger fans and thus inherently part of the problem despite the fact that just like the grumpy old ones, I too hate it when they veer away from Sonic's fundamentals in misguided attempt after misguided attempt to reinvent him; I will remind you that SEGA would not have kept making Sonic games at ALL had we uninformed, younger, newer fans not been buying them. Older fans didn't buy the newer games because those games weren't the Sonic they grew up with. But he would not have made it past the Dreamcast if the series wasn't still making newer fans. See the sales of both the Saturn and the Dreamcast if you need proof of that. Sit your cranky ass down.

[@superalt513]

Maybe Sega would ask another 3rd party company not like dimps but good at making games for Wii to make sonic titles for that platform in that timeline?

[@CanofArizona]

The Wii getting relegated to spinoffs makes perfect sense because Nintendos hardware is garbage and extremely behind the times. SA2B works on the Gamecube because the Dreamcast was a weaker console. Not only that, SA2B is just a port with added features so it wouldn't take a lot of resources to make that happen. dedicating budget to full blown games for the Wii or wasting time to make inferior ports for weaker hardware is a waste of man power and ultimately money. They are much better off focusing on platforms that would matter more. I'm saying all this as someone who owned a Wii as their only console for most of that generation. The main team should only be focused on more powerful stuff it's for the better.

[@_thejuicebox]

I know how long you’ve been working on this and how much it means to you, it certainly shows. This video flows great and the idea of seeing a timeline where Sonic isn’t a joke is a great one. Sad, but a great one. Thanks for putting all the work in to see it realized, you rock Jeb.

[@robertlupa8273]

41:35-42:14 Your speech and the footage were combined _perfectly._ I love when people do this, epecially when they do it _so_ right. "Is it naive of me" while Silver is giving a speech, "I think it's important to understand why all this stuff happened" = Shadow taking Silver to the past, "I don't think so!" with a dramatic zoom on Shadow... *_mwah!_* Perfect!

[@ibitejawbreakers61]

Sonic has to be the only series that is constantly judged on its potential as opposed to its realized quality. And to be honest, I think that's pretty cool. I love Sonic, I am the biggest Sonic fan I know, finding some form of enjoyment with every product, but I can't fault anyone for not taking the series seriously when it seems like half the time not even Sega does that.

[@chi-wind8593]

Great video, Jeb. The video makes me realize that Sonic is around because we care. I remember a KZbinr say “ if you love something you don't turn away, you look at it in the eye and tell them to get their shit together.” and I believe that is the reason why we see the potential for these series to do better. Sonic fans have the rep for many things good or bad. However, I can not deny that we are probably the most caring fanbases ever and talented. Nazo Unleashed, Project 06, and many fan creations show that this series had touched many people in many ways. That series can be so much more than what people think. What I'm hoping that the series does better with Frontiers. We will have to see what the future holds. However, I'm glad not the only one who cares about the series being something more than it is now.

[@sonic5993]

Game Apologist?

[@chi-wind8593]

@@sonic5993 yep, pretty much

[@smashmaster521]

The problem is that we've tried telling SEGA to get their shit together with Sonic, but they keep ignoring us because we're not the Game Grumps or their legion of idiotic fanbrats.

[@KYRA_RISING]

@@smashmaster521 I think that may stem from the fact that, on their own, Tubers like Jeb who share our mindset are just not as official as big review sites like IGN, as popular and meme-worthy as Game Grumps, or as numerous and loud as the more toxic side of the fanbase. Sega gets the wrong idea and, while certain groups may blindly praise their effort (or lack thereof) the rest of us take the fall as a result. What I think could work is that they notice trends. #SonicFrontiersPTBR was popular a few weeks ago and Sega proceeded to release the game’s confirmed languages, which I would say mostly worked out. We need more widespread and coordinated efforts like that. Right now there’s no official hashtag calling for Sega to cease and desist the NFT project they’re soon to make the final decision on. No doubt they’ll just go running after the easy crypto money if we don’t stop them. Yeah, weak example, but I figured I’d make an effort

[@chi-wind8593]

@@smashmaster521 the question is why do they ignore us and turn to people who shit on the series .It’s like they are living in their own fantasy world. I really wonder what is going on with the higher ups with Sega. I love the content that this company makes but they make some stupid decisions and overcompensate on certain things.

[@gamertoon8230]

The scenario you described for the Sonic Forces final boss is so good it would’ve brought a tear to my eye if it actually happened. Just the idea of the possibility of my avatar teaming up with Silver and Cream would’ve made me so happy.

[@galfinsp7216]

Kinda reminds me of the final boss of the adventure mode of super smash bros ultimate.

[@Tfbrave]

I know this video only covers the games- but I do think there's one more thing that should be added here: The mess with Ken Penders and the unfortunate end of Archie Sonic don't happen- this gives Sega access to an entire cast of fan favourite characters that can be added into the game's whenever they want- for those unaware Sega doesn't even use the characters that Penders didn't steal because of that entire incident

[@danielkamenetsky263]

Oh yea I forgot about too

[@TheRoomforImprovement]

Have you considered fleshing out your ideas on Sonic 06? I think there’s some real merit to it.

[@telekinesticman]

Hell yeah man, just finished watching and that was great. It's nice to think that this is still a world we could, one day, be living in, but that requires meaningful changes going forward. Like you said, this inconsistent rollercoaster of quality for Sonic was not, and still is not, inevitable. I would love for Frontiers to be a step in the right direction but so far we might be falling into the same trappings as previous games. Also, it may not have been as viable in 2005, but an outsourced Shadow the Hedgehog totally could have been a DMC-style action game, I wish we had that instead.

[@Landjrin]

That was exactly my first thought! Imagine a Shadow the Hedgehog game done by Platinum games in the style of Bayonetta! That would kick ass.

[@telekinesticman]

@@Landjrin Dang...if only someone could make a KZbin video about that idea...

[@gemsticks]

Frontiers is a weird case, it feels like forces 2 with how it's been revealed, just CGI trailers with no gameplay. The only hope for me is Ian Flynn writing for the game, and even then, I really hope he's not fucked over in any way. (Roger is still voicing sonic so yuck) Hopefully this comments ages like milk so we can truly be at the start of the right timeline.

[@radiokunio3738]

@@gemsticks The one thing that makes me interested in Frontiers is the vision. It's most ambitious looking mainline game since Unleashed. Even if it fails, i will always prefer 06 over Lost World or Colors.

[@alolanfigment9822]

@@gemsticks To be completely fair, most big sonic games ever since 06 have been revealed with CGI trailers with no gameplay, its not really something that sticks out to me as a warning sign or anything. (Also, i have to say it, Roger isn't the problem, the scripts are, we have had glimpses that show that Roger can be a pretty good Sonic when given even a half decent script with things like Rise of the Wisps, so, if Ian Flynn is writing Frontiers, I don't have much to worry about on that front.) I know I am definitely setting myself up for disappointment by believing that Sonic Frontiers will be good, but I don't know, it just feels different this time compared to Forces.

[@nanobot1559]

2:20:25 "The only way to break free is to break the mold", very cool anecdote to His World, especially because you are talking about time travel. Great video bro

[@saulothebebop2581]

Am i the only one that thinks Sonics stories peak when they have anime elements? (SA2, Heroes ,06)

[@XxROTSA2xX]

This is one of the best essay videos on KZbin. You put so much detail into this, and this would definitely be a better timeline.

[@Da1X_Builds]

This video has changed my view of Sonic. It has been difficult for me to let go of previous mistakes and unite the concepts of modern and classic under the singular concept of Sonic the Hedgehog. Your concept of the two versions of Sonic just being two different art styles instead of two different ages definitely helped me with that. While I don’t think you’re timeline would’ve been perfect, it does represent what Sonic truly is. Streamlined with a whole lot of attitude and running towards the next adventure with a cocky grin on his face! Thank you for making this. I feel proud to be a Sonic fan.

[@KnoxCarbon]

Not gonna lie, the concept of Metal being able to hop into a new body every time he gets destroyed makes him more scary as a villain. He could be the wild card of the Sonic rogues gallery, undoubtedly an enemy but willing to work with Sonic and company if it meant screwing over Eggman, utterly unpredictable in where he'd turn up or who's side he'd be on. Maybe he'd be able to hijack and take control of any computer system he could get into, making him a consistent threat to both Eggman and the tech-savvy Tails.

[@sunlitsonata6853]

This kind of reconstructive thinking will be interesting once we actually know how Frontiers turned out and if their decisions like internally delaying the game and having Ian Flynn write the plot will actually pan out. Supposedly the game was testing well behind the scenes (according to Jeff Gerstmann) so to wonder if it's the culmination of going forward with ambition will certainly be a time to see.

[@waytoobiased]

Frontiers is a huge question mark right now.

[@sunlitsonata6853]

@@waytoobiased It is. There clearly seems to be steps to move Sonic into a new era, with the “open zone” gameplay and suggestions that it’ll shake up the series in a similar way that Adventure did way back when, and visually, a game that seems to actually push current gen hardware that would probably look fantastic on 9th gen. Only time will tell, and while we haven’t seen the final product, the time taken could definitely help a lot given the history of undercooked releases highlighted at the first part here with Heroes and 06. I think fans just want another genuinely good (or even great) modern Sonic and if waiting a bit longer for that to happen is how it be, then it can pay off for many years to come, if the game nails it on launch

[@Darkfawfulx]

@@sunlitsonata6853 Im still waiting to see gameplay before I give it any chances. I'm skeptical of Sonic being open world without linear levels. A hub to linear levels is fine but the concept I'm hearing seems not to fit the franchise.

[@sunlitsonata6853]

@@Darkfawfulx One of the rumors going around are that there are these “cyberspace” levels that function closer to Generations scattered about where the music goes hard. I could feasibly see more linear stuff serving a similar purpose to Shrines in Breath of the Wild. Stuff found through the open world exploration that offers micro challenges for some level of enhancement. But again, we know so little that it’s hard to say how well considered anything is

[@smashmaster521]

@@sunlitsonata6853 As long as there are no 2D sections, I'll be content...assuming Frontiers is good.

[@iggyminious]

I swear I keep thinking you've peaked with every video you make, but you always manage to prove me wrong.

[@prfctstrm]

Quoting His World in the end top tier quality. Tho seriously that was a very good analysis and I do wish we lived in that world you imagined. Can't miss boost and mania if they never existed in the first place.

[@SebaBraganca]

I love the ideas and hypothesis of the video, but one thing I would REALLY want to see regardless would be the original vision for Sonic Synergy, man that looked so cool for an alternate line of games from the main ones

[@lynxfresh5214]

Agreed the concepts of Anicent Chao and Sonic's ancestors were intriguing.

[@lordcooler1687]

Ive always thought lost world and rise of lyric shouldve been one game(synergy) with the beta game play and the combined story of them. A fun side story probably a Wii u exclusive or not while sonic team focuses on forces. Though its just me feel free to disagree

[@SebaBraganca]

@@lordcooler1687 never really thought of that but it's a cool idea, it could work

[@Lightning-ig2do]

Great video, Jeb! I loved your rework of Sonic Forces in particular. I think a game like that is a perfect opportunity for multiple playable characters, a feature that has been absent for far too long. I also love the idea of orbot being a serious right-hand villain, kinda like Girahim in Zelda Skyward Sword (although probably less creepy, lol). I'm a little mixed on your changes for Unleashed, although I am surprised and pleased to see that you didn't want to remove the werehog altogether (I love the werehog!) For one thing, boost can be a little one-note, but I cannot deny how amazing it feels to S rank an Unleashed stage, and I really do think that Unleashed had the best boost stages. Generation's stages are great, but I think they rely a bit too much on traditional platforming, and boost controls (compared to adventure controls) are not as conducive to platforming; boost is all about going as fast a possible, and putting your reflexes to the ultimate test, almost like a QTE. Sorry, I know that kinda goes against your idea that we shouldn't have such divisions in the series (i.e. Adventure vs Boost vs Classic), but I don't think that's necessarily a problem. I mean, there's multiple different styles of Mario gameplay (classic/course clear/sandbox) and Zelda gameplay (Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Breath of the Wild) but they're doing just fine. That kind of division is inevitable; even in a series like Ratchet and Clank where the games are a lot more similar to each other, I still feel some pretty strong division between PS2 fans and PS3 fans. And, I'm probably just nostalgia biased here, but I love the werehog combat system, and I'd hate to see it go. I would love it if Shadow could get a spinoff game with a Devil May Cry style combat system. Frankly, I would also hate to see Mania go away. I get why it wouldn't "need" to exist in this alternate timeline in which Sonic isn't divisive, but knowing the heart and soul that that team put into that game, I cannot conscientiously undo their great work. It was made by and for people who love the Genesis games. In my opinion, Classic Sonic for the Sonic series is what Toon Link should be for the Zelda series; for all intents and purposes, he's the same character. Sonic is Sonic is Sonic. It kinda makes me think too of how in Ratchet and Clank, the characters will occasionally be depicted in a cute, 2D art style, but does that distract from the heart of R&C? No! Because they're literally just having fun, and that's something that I think the Sonic community needs to understand; Sonic should be allowed to have black or green eyes without people wanting to gouge their own out. Those kinds of debates are a complete waste of time and energy. Woof, super long comment almost over! I loved that last bit there about how the devs wanted people to see the words "SEGA" and "Sonic Team" and be super excited to play their game. It reminds me of an interview I saw with the co-directors of my favorite game: Uncharted 4. At some point, they said (something to the effect of) "We're Naughty Dog, and it is our job to make sure that statement has weight." Someday, I hope Sonic gets a truly amazing AAA game, for which, the devs will be able to proudly say "We're Sonic Team" ...or (cringe alert) "WE'RE SONIC HEROES!!!"

[@voltricity1942]

agreed with what you said about unleashed boost, haven't watched the video yet so idk what he proposed but i think the classics and adventure style gameplay can get away with some slower more traditional style platform sections, but i just don't think it works well in the boost, which is one reason i prefer unleashed level design, also the longer levels and harder S are nice

[@chillykomasan7971]

I can still see the boost formula being in the timeline with Dimps developing it and possibly for the 3ds to rival mario 3d land. If the storybook games continued then it probably would've have some of that boost DNA since secret rings had some of that.

[@RiqMoney817]

I can’t believe we live in a universe where a plot of Eggman finally accomplishing his goal of takin over the world is wasted by Graff and Pontac’s writing

[@bowserbreaker2515]

I agree with the voice cast thing. Movies and TV shows can have a different cast, but the games should stay consistent. (Although Mike Pollock would probably be brought on anyway because of Deem Bristow's passing)

[@DarkSage861]

And Amy Palent would've been brought for Tails because William Crockery would be getting more older post 2004

[@Kuzamer]

If there just had to be a recast with no other option, I would rather they go to Studiopolis instead of 4Kids for Sonic X and beyond. We'd have a similar cast to what we have now, but with some significant changes to make the cast closer in tone to the Japanese voice cast. With this, Sonic X can air on Toonami or something without any ridiculous censorship like we had with 4Kids, the original Japanese OST and we'd have a really good dub. The cast in question would essentially be like this for Sonic X and the games starting with Sonic Heroes. Hopefully they'd stay that way: Sonic the Hedgehog: Yuri Lowenthal Miles "Tails" Prower: Colleen O'Shaughnessey Knuckles the Echidna: Travis Willingham Shadow the Hedgehog: Troy Baker Rouge the Bat: Karen Strassman E-123 Ω: Jamieson Price Amy Rose: Stephanie Sheh Cream the Rabbit: Michelle Ruff Big the Cat: Kyle Hebert Espio the Chameleon: Crispin Freeman Charmy Bee: Kari Wahlgren Vector the Crocodile: Paul St. Peter Jet the Hawk: Todd Haberkorn Wave the Swallow: Kate Higgins Storm the Albatross: Patrick Seitz Silver the Hedgehog: Quinton Flynn Blaze the Cat: Laura Bailey E-102 γ: John DeMita Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik: Mike Pollock Tikal the Echidna: Wendee Lee Pachacamac: Beau Billingslea Omochao: Laura Bailey Maria Robotnik: Janice Kawaye Professor Gerald Robotnik: Steve Kramer Voice director: Mary Elizabeth McGlynn

[@bowserbreaker2515]

@@Kuzamer My recast would be Roger Craig Smith-Sonic Colleen O'Shaughnessy-Tails Dave B. Mitchell-Knuckles Cindy Robinson-Amy Mike Pollock-Eggman Ben Pronsky-Shadow Cree Summer-Rouge Peter Cullen-Omega Yuri Lowenthal-Silver Tara Platt-Blaze Keith Silverstein-Vector Matthew Mercer-Espio Colleen O'Shaughnessy-Charmy Voice Director-Susan Blu

[@Kuzamer]

@@bowserbreaker2515 So I take it with this, you're pretty happy with the voice cast as it is right now.

[@bowserbreaker2515]

@@Kuzamer It could have some changes (I wish David Humphrey as well as some of the 4Kids actors were still there, but most of them are good.)

[@TimReviewsEveryNAWiiGame]

In your scenario, the Heros delay might just straight up butterfly Shadow The Hedgehog out of existence. Shadow was inspired by the heros director playing Jak 2 while recovering from crunch.

[@justinharris1041]

Wow this video was incredible. I think for me one of the greatest tragedies of the series really is Sonic 06. Seeing how many ideas were there that could have been good, and seeing how the story was actually trying to take itself seriously (instead of what we have now with stories in the games that aren’t thought out or that don’t have good writing at all) it’s so sad because the whole Sonic series could have changed for the better after it. If 06 was received well, I don’t think that there would be the knee jerk reactions by Sega every time that something in a Sonic game is criticized. Idk it’s just sad to see the state of the franchise now and think about how thinks could have been different if there was more of a focus on not rushing the games.

[@decadentgamer3108]

These were some amazing ideas, I highly give a thumbs up to them all but I especially like the way you rewrote Sonic Forces. THAT would've been amazing to see and would still be totally plausible to see in the canon game if they actually took more time and thought about the story and the characters. Just bravo, that was amazing. I also fully agree with how dumb it was to not have Classic Sonic speak in Sonic Generations yet Tails and Eggman were doing just that. It makes not sense at all and that inclusion of Classic Sonic was totally asking for a return cameo of Jaleel White even if it was just for that one game. It was a totally missed opportunity. Also agree on the voice acting. I too prefer consistency in the voice department and that's the thing that really sucked about the Sonic games. I don't mind changes for the films and even TV shows but not the games. The Adventure cast was truly something special with the exception of the Bringas brothers voice Tails. It's just a shame that Ryan Drummond, Scott Dreier, David Humphrey, Jennifer Douilard, and Lani Minella were removed because it doesn't sound like they wanted to quit, especially Ryan who has expressed love for the role. He started out rocky but was at his A-game in Sonic Heroes along with the other veterans of Sonic Adenture's cast. I'd understand if they grew disinterested and wanted to work on other shows but it doesn't sound like that was the case and that is what made the voice change depressing. Anyway, fantastic video!

[@nuibaba280]

I LOVE the idea of Cartoon Sonic coming back through classic. Easily the best idea shown yet.

[@dangangalaxy9759]

_PHENOMENAL_ video, _absolutely_ incredible. Seriously, you did a fantastic job with this one, Jeb. I've always admired your much more objective look on Sonic as a franchise while still remaining optimistic about its future, and this video is a testament to that. I completely agree with the decisions you made here. Every single segment had me going "huh, y'know he's right actually" and making the same face as that kid from the one meme where he looks up from the computer and nods in surprised approval with his thumb up and eyebrows raised. Even for the decisions that hurt for me somewhat due to personal attachment, you always made it easy to understand that it was for the greater good of the franchise, and explained yourself in a way to where I would always agree with that position (the one concession I WOULDN'T make would have been nixing the Riders series 😤, but you kept that in so we're good lol) And HO BOY JEB I LOVE YOUR CREATIVE MIND. I know you said you didn't wanna get to fanfic-y and you wanted to leave things up to our imagination, but I _really_ enjoyed listening to your own thoughts and ideas, especially for the stories. Your reimagining of the Forces plot was even better than what I had hoped it would be when the game was first teased. I love the idea of Metal just being a lone rogue that roams the world and does what he wants, separate from Eggman. I love how you expanded on Infinite's character and your ideas for Orbot. Seriously, I could listen to your ideas for this franchise all day. And the Werehog (this gets its own paragraph, just to break things up somewhat). I never was a huge fan of the Werehog, until I read the final few issues of the Archie comics. There's one scene where he has a race with this elder sloth character who's training him to harness the potential of this new form he's stuck with, and after finally winning by swinging around on tree branches and using the vertical environment around him to build momentum, Sonic says something along the lines of "I'm getting the hang of this! The speed is still there, I just have to bring it out in a new way!", and from there, I fell in love with the concept of the Werehog as a version of Sonic that uses his environment to achieve similarly blistering speeds. So hearing you describe a formula not unlike the concept of a Spider-Man racing game where you swing around and build momentum to build up speed in _that_ way got me VERY excited (and sad that we never got that). But I could go on and on. Thank you so much for this. This video was a joy to watch and, although you have the very obvious and powerful benefit of hindsight as you mentioned, stuff like this gives me hope that maybe Sonic Team could one day gain a similar perspective. It's not like this power called "hindsight" is exclusive to us fans alone, right? I know I'm being selfish when I say this because you make plenty of vids on other series, but I'm glad you're back with Sonic, even if just for this one video. I don't want to reduce you to just a "Sonic Tuber" since you aren't anymore, but of the Sonic content out there, imo you make some of the best. This is one of those movie-length KZbin video essays I'll definitely comeback and revisit someday. -------------- (P.S.: I would be 100% satisfied with the timeline you detailed here, but I could add just one thing: I wish they'd explore Blaze more, specifically "Sol Dimension" Blaze from Rush. Blaze is literally, both conceptually and canonically, an alternate universe version of Sonic. Similar to how some versions of Spider-Man are different in every aspect -- name, gender, backstory, personality, even superhero name (like the iteration that goes by "Silk") -- Blaze was literally always meant to be that for Sonic. She _is_ the Sol Dimension's Sonic. Sonic is the Chaos Dimension's Blaze. I wish they'd run with that concept. She's my second favorite character after Sonic, and I feel like there's so much wasted potential with her in that regard. At the very least, maybe one of those character-specific spin-off titles you mentioned could be dedicated to her.)

[@Eldarin]

absolutley phenomenal video!!! hopefully sega will right the ship with frontiers in the oncoming future. I would love to live in the timeline you created here though, espically with how awesome Forces sounded

[@Lazypackmule]

On that 06 Chaos comparison, it would be neat if Solaris was the 'Chaos' equivalent for the Sol Emeralds, explaining Blaze's involvement in the story while maintaining her Rush origins

[@havenisthebest99]

I keep rewatching this, think about a few things. 06 is my favorite game but I feel the series is scared to do anything risky post Black Knight due to the backlash. But imagine if 06 had gotten universal acclaim or something. Think about it. “Sonic the Hedgehog(2006) received critical acclaim from critics and fans alike for it’s story, gameplay innovations, the addition of the character Silver, the soundtrack and the advancement it made toward the series. IGN called this “the greatest step forward for a video game juggernaut ever.” Im imagining in this timeline, Sonic would get nothing but great scores with even 06 being nominated for Game of the Year! instead of being clowned on for the past 16 years. Forces had so much potential to be a high 80s-low 90s scored game on Metacritic. I hate the game for all the amazing shit it could’ve had just thrown away in fear of screwing up. If Boom or LW hadn’t existed, then Sonic Team wouldn’t be so damn scared and pissy over angering the fans who are the only ones who stick with Sonic through and through. Hell, I know it’s risky, but Forces really sounded like it should’ve been open world or semi-open world at least, something like Rift Apart.

[@freyaljones7368]

I just want sonic too go back being shonen like he was in 1998 too 2009 like the good old days

[@brandonwilliams6119]

*“Sonic Evolution”* is greatest name change for any video game, I don’t think it would’ve tarnished the series namesake as much as did if it had a different name like you mentioned being the next gen evolution of the series. The name is unironically the coolest, even if it has the same syllable count as what many people refer to it as *“Sonic 06”*

[@ToaArcan]

Good video. With regards to the Avatar in Forces, I'd want two things. One, for it to fit in with the rest of the cast. Seeing the Avatar next to the main characters never looked right, and not just because half the Avatars people online made were aiming to be as jarring and weird as possible. They were too long, too gangly, their mouths are too wide, and character-defining features like the quills on the hedgehogs and the ears and tails on the other wolves and cats are too small. They look like the Sonic Boom NPCs, if they were drawn by early-career Tracey Yardley, when he hadn't quite got his hand in yet. Shrink 'em down to even height with Sonic and Shadow, and make those features stand out, and maybe they'll look better. The other thing is the ability to "opt out", to _not_ create a character and have a 100% official one that slots into their role in the event that the person playing it _doesn't_ want to insert their own character into the stories. I've done plenty of OC creation, albeit not for Sonic, but I've never felt a massive urge to have my creations interact with the official ones. I prefer to sequester my creations in their own stories. This would also be a massive benefit to both SEGA and IDW, as their writers for follow-up games won't have to write around the fact that there was this random dude who turned up for three days and solved a problem that Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, Tails, Espio, Vector, etc, couldn't and then disappeared back into the plothole he spawned from as soon as the story was over, because I sincerely doubt that the Avatar will ever be returning. Having an official, canon character whose appearance and gear doesn't change being being able to swap out their weapon's element for another would make it much smoother. Hell, make it Gemerl, and swap out the "Power to believe in myself" narrative for a moodier "All parties are scared that letting the robot fight again will result in another berserker-mode rampage" that culminates with him successfully and safely using the macguffin. Heaven knows the character needs some more use that isn't "Mechanical Babysitter."

[@lynxfresh5214]

Thank you for bringing up the fact the Avatar from Forces was essentially a plot contrivance that undermined established characters that have shown to be just as capable as Sonic. That said at least the OC actually had a purpose, I don't think Infinite even acknowledges the fact there are two Sonic's lol! (Yet more proof Classic Sonic was just there for nostalgia bait).

[@NintendanGX]

The only thing I'd add to this is Fang The Sniper returning much sooner as a regular villain. Sonic Team have had plenty of opportunities to bring this underrated character back, beyond his cancelled appearances. For example... Shadow The Hedgehog I'm not saying he should replace Shadow in his own game perse (though returning in a darker spin-off could be fun), but rather I think Shadow stole a lot of Fang's trademark features in this game. Here's how I'd fix this. Instead of Shadow toating a realistic gun and driving vehicles he doesn't even need, his game could focus on his Chaos Powers, making for unique level design that takes full advantage of time-manipulation, teleportation and melee combat. That way, when FANG returns either as a playable character in Sonic's game or his very own, HE can use the gun and vehicle, which are more stylised to fit within Sonic's universe! Rather than just a cork gun, his gun supports various ammo types to suit his needs, and he can ram cars and GUN bots out of the way with his Marvellous Queen, causing utter mayhem and racking up points in the process, in an over-the-top and zany way only Fang could pull off. Sonic Rush Adventure You know what really irritates me about characters like Johnny? They're pointless. Sonic Team constantly creates wasteful, useless characters to replace more endearing characters that already serve the same purpose. This game could've been the perfect comeback for Fang. His backstory implies he may be from another dimension, so why not reveal that to be the Sol Dimension? In his first and most legitimate appearance in a Sonic game, Fang stood in the way of Sonic and the Chaos Emeralds, so it'd make sense that here, he'd be back with a vengeance and greedier than ever, challenging Sonic for the Sol Emeralds this time and cheating in the process. Sonic Generations (3DS) I like Sonic Generations 3DS as a companion piece to the console version, but even here, I see a lot of wasted potential. It's nice that they featured a level from Sonic Rush, but they could've further differentiated the 3DS title by making it a celebration of the handheld games, featuring varied and memorable levels from Sonic Chaos all the way up to Colours DS. And of course, we'd have different rivals to comemmorate this. Instead of just Metal Sonic, Shadow and Silver again, we would have.... Fang The Sniper, Gmerl, and Blaze The Cat! Fang's bossfight will be a gauntlet of all his bossfights from Triple Trouble, starting off with him getting damaged by his own trap and ending with Sonic burying him into the ground... until he pulls a fast one and nabs a Chaos Emerald, trying to escape on his Marvellous Queen, to which Sonic must chase him down in an auto-scrolling 2D bossfight, dodging the projectiles shot from his gun and bashing him enough times to finally defeat him! And hey, now that the Sonic cast is played by anime voice actors, why not cast Grant George, Yuri Lowenthal or Dave Wittenberg to play as this conniving, arrogant, weasley yet suave villain? Sonic Forces All of Sonic's best villains are back! Like Chaos, Shadow, Metal Sonic and... Zavok... Wooooo... Nah, This was yet another opportunity to bring a forgotten favourite back. Why would he be fighting for Eggman? Because he's corrupt! Because he's an opportunist! Because he's greed incarnate, and the pay is too good for him to pass up! Now this is ignoring Forces' other problems and the various ways Jeb and others have suggested improving it, but Fang's such a malleable villain that I'm sure he could work well into any of those hypothetical games. Team Sonic Racing Remember Sonic Drift 2, the first ever Sonic racing game brought to the west? Remember how Fang was playable in that game, and how it introduced his iconic vehicle? Wouldn't it be nice to call back to that game by having Fang return, fully-voiced and all, alongside Bark and Bean? Wouldn't it be cool to hint at the reasons for Bark and Bean even agreeing to work with this corrupt desert-rat in the first place, that could maybe then be explored in a new game? Finally, Fang & the Hooligans would be an actual thing in the games! And as I just mentioned, the three of them would be voiced! Now that Chris Patton isn't an anime-only voice actor, having recently played characters for games like Scarlet Nexus and Fire Emblem, I think he'd be the absolute perfect fit for Fang. He's played Greed from FMA, Nishi from Gantz, and Sato from Welcome to the NHK. I have plenty of back-up choices, but when I imagine Fang talking, I definitely hear Chris Patton's voice. Bark would be played by Kaiji Tsang, since he's really good at playing stoic and gruff characters. Bark wouldn't speak a lot, but that'd make the moments he does all the more memorable. He's the silent muscle of the group, but his otherwise kind nature will have Sonic and the like baffled as to why he's so loyal to Fang. I think Kaiji could really sell this character as an intimidating yet quiet and endearing character who, despite working with Fang, follows his own moral compass. And let's not forget Bean. Right now, I think Ben Diskin would make a great Bean, giving this character a more care-free, scatter-brained yet manic air about him. He'd be the weapons expert of the Hooligans, and while he doesn't have programming know-how of Tails or even Fang, he'd be the one to make sure Fang's missfires happen a lot less frequently. Though his carelessness will give both Fang and Bark no end of grief, almost blowing them up and accidentally ruining their plans on several occasions. Outside of a half-cameo in Mania that happened nearly 5 years ago, nothing more has been done with Fang in the games, and as I've stated, they've had plenty of opportunities to revive this character. If they spent less time feeling the need to justify making more characters, and more time on the ones they already had, things would be very different. He's not stepping on anyone's toes either, contrary to what Takashi Izuka would have you believe. Rouge is more a government agent than thief, and she was only truly antagonistic in one game. Vector likes money, yes, but the reason he's broke all the time is because he's more interested in solving problems for everyone and putting the well-being of others before himself by working as honestly as he can. And Eggman can remain the main villain for most games, with enough differences to help him and Fang stand apart.

[@bendover2649]

Isn't it weird that of all the games, Shadow the Hedgehog does Forces' own premise but better? Both games are about a war taking place in "Sonic's World". In Forces Eggman attacks Green Hill Zone and "City", Infinite beats up Sonic, Eggman takes over the rest of the world offscreen, and then the Resistance somehow beats Eggman back despite their forces (heh) apparently getting shitstomped the whole game. Infinite fucks off and Eggman is defeated by friendship. Other humans don't exist anymore, and no one seems to care about the Chaos Emeralds. In Shadow, the Black Arms attack major cities across the entire planet including Central City and Westopolis. G.U.N and the Eggman Empire mobilise to fight them off, while also coming into conflict with each other. Sonic and Friends are spread out in different places, either helping G.U.N beat back the invaders, like Sonic and Rouge do, or going off on their own missions, like the Chaotix collecting data or Omega going after Eggman while he's distracted. The three sides fight over the Chaos emeralds (which Shadow always gets in the end), they fight over the Ark, and, depending on who you side with, you can attack a faction's main base and destroy them. I'm not saying it's an amazing well-written masterpiece (god no) but I still respect what they were trying to do much, much more than whatever half-baked plot Forces had.

[@undeadbatman9762]

Shadow the hedgehog had more context and actual stakes. We have actual names for the cities and the three warring sides.

[@mattsalamon4934]

I'd so imagine that Unleashed would maybe have some main or side character in each location: Like Knuckles not just for a cutscene character, but you can play as him in certain sections in a stage such as Rooftop Run or something. Shadow in Eggman Land after many weeks of researching why the world is destroyed, and having another Super Sonic/Super Shadow Boss Battle between Dark Gaia/Perfect Dark Gaia. That would be a good concept for Unleashed that I PERSONALLY think would be great.

[@BranFlaixx]

Good work, man! I'm pretty much right there with you on your ideas for what could have been. I think it's cool that despite how frustrating the series can be, we still stick around and hold onto hope, purely because of positive experiences we've had with the character, before. Here's hoping Sonic Frontiers is a good time, and that future games are more iterative of it, instead of going out of control all over again.

[@MasterDisaster64]

Simply a masterful video. Though I wonder how you imagine this kind of consistency could happen at this point, as you allude to in the end. The timeline you describe would have kept Sonic with one consistent identity, but our Sonic has had so many identities, each with its own fans. Consistently sticking to one identity *now* would alienate fans of the others.

[@b0xE_]

Maybe a reboot starting with the Adventure Remakes who knows. 🤷‍♂️

[@austinreed7343]

Those fans could either be given games that bridge the gap into the consistient identity, or be formally abandoned.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

" Consistently sticking to one identity now would alienate fans of the others." I mean they alienated the entirety of "adventure era" fans such as myself in our real timeline.

[@austinreed7343]

@@KaiserMattTygore927 And it's making us want revenge on the Meta Era fans... They seem to be appealing to Classic fans less and less.

[@MasterDisaster64]

@@KaiserMattTygore927 Wait, you're right!

[@keithfernandez2823]

I’m keeping my expectations low for Sonic frontiers. All I hope that this new Sonic game doesn’t turn out to be another Sonic forces. That’s honestly my advice to everyone. Keep your expectations low for upcoming Sonic games. The more you keep your expectations low for future Sonic games, the less it will be a disappointment for every Sonic fans. Great video Jeb. Say hi to J from J’s review for me.

[@ledetbrothers9210]

Accepting mediocrity doesn’t make the mediocrity go away.

[@keithfernandez2823]

@@nalaxysketches8519 all I’m saying is that I don’t want everyone to get bum down if the game doesn’t turn out the way they expect it to be. When Sonic Forces was made, I remembered everyone including Sonic fans was so hyped for it, until when they played it, the game became a major disappointment to everyone including hardcore Sonic fans. I’m hope I’m wrong. I’m hope Sonic Frontiers turns to be great, as hardcore Sonic fan, I want this game to succeed, I want Sonic to bounce back and prove to world that the real Sonic the hedgehog is back. But if this game turns out to be another disappointment like Sonic forces then I’m ready to just let go of the franchise and accept that Sonic the hedgehog is never going to come back. Again I’m not saying that you shouldn’t express your opinion about this game, if you like that’s fine. But advice is keep your expectations low, because if you keep your expectations to high, then it will become a more disappointment to everyone then it should’ve been.

[@charmyzard]

1:01:05 is a good example of how this video masterfully weaves action in footage with the narration and its emotional intentions. It's both funny and simply pleasing. Much kudos, Jeb. I still find myself returning to this video almost a year later regularly.

[@charmyzard]

Come to think of it, had SEGA taken more time to polish Heroes we could have had Team Hooligan and that weird Gamma-Chaos-Big team in the game! If only...

[@Jvwalwyn]

Every time I randomly find your video on my recommended, you always have these great insights on the Sonic franchise as a whole. I really admire your love for the series and how creative your mind is. Honestly this video made me happy to imagine what your time line would be if it was a reality. Great video man. I hope Sega and Izuka see these videos you make.

[@Leemmmm]

Man I know this wasn't the intent at all but this video kinda bums me out. Sonic could have been so much more consistent while also keeping true to how unique it is in comparison to other video games. We could have had a series of games that wasn't so afraid of what it could be, wasn't so ready to buckle at criticism and double back so intensely so often. I'm really really hoping Frontiers proves to be the brave new direction that Sonic Team keeps boasting that it is, instead of yet another mistake that they'll soon feel desperate to push under the rug in the vain hope that people will forget it ever happened.

[@Dogan_TM]

It's almost a bit sad to listen to this and then step back and remember where the series is now. I didn't even bother buying Sonic Forces because I already knew it wouldn't appeal to me in the slightest. I don't know what the "open world" thing is going to look like, but my hopes aren't very high. Fan games are pretty much the lifeblood of the series for me at this point. Although I haven't touched them very much either, recently.

[@Kingnorm04]

About the Voice actor thing, I’d make one change. Keep the entire original cast, BUT for new characters and replacement characters, they could easily bring in the 4kids cast members to voice them. For example, due to Deem Bristow’s unfortunate passing, I’d still have Pollock replace him as Eggman, and with William Corkery (ugh) obviously going through puberty down the line, they could replace him with Amy Palant. For new characters such as Silver, Blaze, the Babylon Rogues, etc I would keep the 4kids actors and those actors would stay as those characters for the rest of the franchise. This means Pete Capella would still be our Silver voice, Jason Griffith would be known as Jet instead of Sonic and Shadow (he even said several times that Jet was his favorite to voice), Blaze’s voice would never change, and so on while keeping the og cast for the characters we grew up with.

[@Kuzamer]

I don't see them doing that because SEGA don't really like mixing both union and non-union VAs in the same cast. Especially not back then. I imagine if they were to stick with Ryan and friends, they'd get some union VAs for the games with the characters that either needed new VAs or were new characters. For instance... Dr. Eggman - Mark Hamill Miles "Tails" Prower - Tara Strong Blaze the Cat - Rachel MacFarlane Jet the Hawk - Jason Marsden Wave the Swallow - Kimberly Brooks Storm the Albatross - Clancy Brown Silver the Hedgehog - Will Friedle

[@grfrjiglstan]

Wow, this is some really good writing. For a script this long to be this good, you've got some chops. Here's hoping the algorithm shines on you soon.

[@YesterdaysMinder]

you're not allowed to make me cry over the fact i don't live in that timeline

[@LucasHopkins2006]

No matter how much I may love games like the Unleashed, Generations, and Frontiers we have, I wish this was the timeline we lived in (though with that being said, I wonder how Frontiers would be in this timeline)

[@SB-ex8nt]

I have listened to this video several times now. I'm in awe at your depth, decision making and process with reimagining the Sonic Timeline. This is incredibly impressive.

[@RaCUtricolor]

What astonishes me most about this video, is how it's almost 1 to 1 with my own thoughts, specific game ideas aside. Almost every conclusion you came to in this video about which games release and how, is exactly what I envisioned whenever I pondered this topic. I had always thought about making a video on this, but now there's really no need lmao. Also gotta say, your comment about how you also have many tweaks in mind for the classic and Adventure games from a retrospective perspective sounds very interesting, I know it's an extreme undertaking to create huge videos like this, but if you ever voice these thoughts in any manner I will 110% show up to hear them. All in all, fantastic video Jeb, enjoyed it tons!

[@gio9255]

I agree that Sonic Team should focus on talent retention, building their teams to a AAA size, and delay their games if the quality just isn't there but I don't think it is fair for the Sonic series to relegate his Nintendo outings to 2D handheld titles while the big, powerful consoles get the next gen 3D outings. That's relegating Sonic's representation to the levels of SMT and Mega Man. Sonic is the big 3rd party platformer whose reach is on every device out there and has a new entry every 2-3 years. Other long lasting platformers like Ratchet and Clank could only dream to one day have the popularity and reach of Sonic. I believe Sonic has already succeeded after 06. SonicTeam is listening to the fan and critic feedback and Unleashed was a response to it. No one says it but the 2000s period of Sonic was heavily influenced by the Jax and Daxter series in more ways than one. Forces was designed as streamlined as possible as a response to the polarizing response to Lost World. Neither Lost World or Forces were truly bad games but ones that were designed for a younger audiences in mind. I have faith Frontiers will be a return to form for the series and we will start getting more Sonic games in it's fashion upon it's critical and commercial success.

[@TheBlueGhoul]

What if in your forces hypothetical yeah green hill isnt a landmark but eggman deliberately makes a big deal out of trashing the place to try and get under an imprisoned sonic and his friends. He doesnt robotisize it like every where else, he deliberately destroys it. The place where sonic grew up, has a soft spot for and, most importantly, where the pair met. All for petty revenge.

[@KYRA_RISING]

Now THAT would be an excellent opportunity for some much-needed emotional moments

[@infinitedreamer9359]

Wrong.Sonic did NOT grow up on Green Hill.He grew up on South island as the manual for Sonic 1 shows

[@TheBlueGhoul]

@@infinitedreamer9359 Oh thanks for correcting me. Also just out of curiosity was it the japenese manual or the american manual?

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@@TheBlueGhoul Wait.Sorry it was not South Island,it was Christmas Island and it was mentioned in the Japanese version of the Sonic 1 manual.

[@minty360]

I've finally found it! the longer comment!

[@lexcelius6921]

Honestly… I blame IGN never giving 3D Sonic even the adventure games above a 6.1, but I completely agree with all the points in this video.

[@andrewlavigne44]

I really want to see the Yakuza team do say "Shadow Adventure", a game where Shadow returns to the large hub world of Station Square to unravel a sprawling conspiracy within GUN and local government using a variety of speed based martial arts. Also he runs a cabaret club.

[@mysackissad]

This was an incredible look into an alternate Sonic, entertaining throughout and fun to imagine all these different possibilities. You just gained another sub. 11/10

[@memeboi6913]

Considering how he brought back Mephilis for this version of Forces, I thought of something Maybe we could allude to it by bringing back other characters from defunct timelines: More specifically, as post game bonus stages or the dlc, he mentioned we could bring back the freedom fighters, Cosmo, and Sonic's family from underground. Here are the character interactions after freeing them. Freedom fighters: -Modern Sonic: Srally stars scolding Sonic for letting the ultimate anhilator go off only for Bunnie to but in and say, "Uh, Sally-girl, I don't think that's our Sonic." Sonic then responds by shaking his head and asking,"Do I know any of you?' -Classic Sonic: Antionne is shocked about how small Sonic is. However, rotor mentions that any Sonic is a good Sonic. Classic Sonic looks like he is about to say something but decides to hold that thought. Cosmo: rather than interacting with the Sonics upon being freed, Cosmo would interact with the Tails's (by the way, in this hypothetical scenario, I am assuming Classic Tails is Orange) -Modern Tails: Cosmo would be confused as to what was going on but before Sonic would say anything, she hugs Modern Tails before Tails asks if she is some sort of plant human hybrid, causing awkward silence -Classic Tails: same setup as Modern Tails, but instead, Classic Tails says he is getting choked, causing the Awkward Silence before Cosmo mention she doesn't recall Tails being that short, or Orange. Sonia, Manic and Aleena: -Modern Sonic: Sonia and Manic ask Sonic where his Gutair medalleon went, causing Sonic to become confused. Prompting Sonia to remind him that they are his siblings. Prompting Sonic to mention that he doesn't recall having a family but that he has met weirder today, so he just goes along with it. -Classic Sonic: Queen Aleena brings Sonic in for a big hug only to comment that Sonic looks a lot like he did as a baby. Prompting confusion from Classic Sonic, breaking off the hug. And yes, as a 100% reward, there will be CG shorts showing how these characters get used to this new world.

[@flamingoodness4923]

Absolutely FANTASTIC video! I agree with this sort of ideal timeline sega really should have followed, and one thing I like that you kept consistent is the entire idea that sega didn’t screw up over and over, but instead made wiser decisions as a company. Sega failed to understand that in order for something to be successful, that something needs to actually be good. That’s one big reason why sonic boom failed, since they didn’t care how the game was going to end up, they instead just wanted to focus on pushing new merch, which didn’t even sell well since nobody liked or cared about sonic boom. You did great on showing what could’ve been if these obvious mishaps didn’t happen! One thing I’d like to say is they really should’ve tried to give sonic the quality control and budget any other mascot series would get. If anything, this is the ONLY thing they should have mimicked from Mario…well aside from one more thing. They should have given sonic side series similar to how Mario gets party games, sports games, kart games, etc. A sonic riders series is obvious, but the other two that really could have benefitted the series is a fighting series that builds off sonic battle and improves upon its foundation, and consistent character spin off games, like a game for knuckles, Amy, silver, etc.which would be outsourced to other companies. You know, USE the cast you have. Buuuut that’s just me going on my own tangents. All we can really do is hope frontiers begins to implement some REAL improvements that are long over due. All in all, great video! I can’t wait for you next project!

[@theodorerigopoulos6509]

2 hours and 21 minutes video about a what if Sonic time line. And I loved every second of it!!!

[@kindasomeviews]

This video is substantial. Enough to make me feel like this is one of those videos that Sega should listen to, instead of hearing out the filth from the majority of the fandom, who they've blatantly acknowledged and manipulate. If they had integrity, they'd hire very talented modders and content creators (which is easy good publicity), and start being on a roll with smaller titles again, especially to wipe away any rust among the staff. Them just jumping into a big project now is them making mistakes again imo. We can only pray that they have more than 2-3 game designers this time

[@gatla4695]

Had this on my Watch Later list since uploaded, so glad I gave it a go. Great work on this.

[@Pureheartt13]

I love this, all of this. I truly hope SEGA learns from their past mistakes, and evolve their strategy for Sonic the Hedgehog video games.

[@maxleon61702]

Same here.

[@matth.6669]

It may seem silly but it really makes me sad to see a series I loved so much as a kid make the same mistakes over and over all while blaming the wrong aspects and slowly eliminating the very things I liked about it. Despite this, the games up to Colors will always be special to me.

[@scribbletoms2120]

Honestly, most of the choices made here seem very reasonable for SEGA to have made at the time, at the very least if they put in more thought and time than what actually happened. The one thing I probably don't agree with is the idea that Mania wouldn't exist, at least when considering it's production history. I think that considering how any ports of games would've likely stayed the same in this vision, Taxman and Stealth would have still worked on the mobile ports, and likely still pitched the idea at some point. Would it have been the same product? Not at all, I think with the history here, the game would try to be more of an original product than a tribute, nor would it have any ties to Forces. So in a sense, yes, Sonic Mania would exist, but it would mainly be in name or concept only.

[@TheSpeedyBoi]

this video was so exciting, I got so hyped when you were about to talk about unleashed, you did a bang up job on this one! Have a great day man!

[@sheacorduroy5565]

Neat little thing about Unleashed, you can blame Shadow the Hedgehog for blowing up the Earth in one of the NPC interactions.

[@graydizzle8499]

I loved this so much! I can tell you put so much love and care into this! It was so fun to watch and see a world of what could have been, Your ideas were fantastic! I wish it was a reality! And I loved how you ended the video such a perfect line! Your going places man keep it up! Your way past cool!

[@gregzotter6189]

I'd LOVE to see a version of Forces with Blaze (if not playable, then a supporting role) being part of the resistance, as she's a really cool character, as well as Metal Sonic having a better battle.

[@alphawolf7417]

In IDW Neo Metal is actually leading the army after Forces and Blaze is part of the resistance. Why they weren't in the game well......Sonic Team is run by idiots.

[@sheacorduroy5565]

I would also like to thank this video for finally putting in words for what I’ve believed about this series for a long time now. I didn’t expect myself to agree with this video nearly as much as I did. Thanks for that. Edit: Damn you for putting Live Life at the final section and making me cry again.

[@aidanshowers8366]

I like that you kept elements of the adventure formula and found a way to keep the boost around but I think integrating the boost into the normal stages instead of Mach speed sections would be better. In my version of the sonic series I would make the gameplay a 3D version of sonic rush using momentum and the spindash just with an added on boost. I would continue the story after shadow but cutscenes would be 2D animated done by production IG in the style of riders. Art style would be more like unleashed-generations with a middle ground between fantasy and reality with varying colors and color pallets. Npcs would be humans and anthropomorphic animals so sonic and friends don’t stick out like sore thumbs to much. The next game being 06 I would introduce the concept of dark forms (what sonic used in sonic X in the metarex arc). I would have kept tails and knuckles super forms around along with hyper which sonic would only use in extreme emergencies like dark Gaia, or Solaris. The designs would be more akin to riders with more lanky proportions with some variations like knuckles (yes I do mean the boom design) and characters having things like sunglasses, laces on shoes, or even coats and jackets with varying styles of hair/quills. Also fangs and shark teeth need to come back for sonic, silver, tails, and knuckles I hated when SA2 moved away from having those details with 06, riders/ZG, and secret rings being the last times we see characters other than rouge, blaze, and shadow have fangs so I would keep those around. Tone for stories would be more like games like devil may cry they aren’t taken to seriously but still have those serious moments (also certain characters would be more combat focus to spice things up a bit). Music would largely remain the same from what we’ve seen from the series but with some tracks being more funk or synthwave based, with a variety of remixes of character themes to suit for specific moments piano for emotional, rock for action packed, and violin for just general moments like a character introduction. Also music would ramp up depending on how the player plays with the more stylish, fast, and epic the player is the bombastic the music becomes. I think that’s everything I would want I mainly wanted sonic to do things that allow him to stick out more and create his own look like what he had back in games like adventure, colors, unleashed, or generations.

[@GaMastrr]

Why can't Colors be a 3D console game that still releases in 2010 for PS3/360 but isn't as simple and has 3 stories and multiple playable characters and a fleshed out story like the earlier games?

[@Scienceboy0]

It's really sad, because Sonic 06 was absolutely a great concept and ideal to head down. Double down on Sonic having interesting stories, have a diverse cast of characters, and make each new title stand on it's own. Unfortunately, with it's failure, Sega took all of the good things 06 conceptually had, and labeled them as bad ideas. Story was eliminated, characters were cut, and every title became a callback to previous entries. They kept all of the flaws in rushing the games out, and also removed any progress they had made. I love the world that was described here because it shows a reality where 06's tenants were accepted and successful, becoming the backbone of the series going forward just like it was intended to be.

[@BlueRainbow101]

Wow. I absolutely LOVE everything in this video. Just thinking about all these ideas makes me incredibly happy.

[@vani-lla]

For your point on Secret Rings, the Party mode wasn't made by Sonic Team. It was outsourced to a different company called Now Production.

[@havenisthebest99]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS VIDEO. This would be a timeline where sonic games would be selling 10 and maybe even *FIFTEEN* million units and not just 1-3 million. If I had to give a extra hand with this, for the release dates I would give this SA1- November 20, 1998 SA2- February 12, 2002 Heroes-November 16, 2004 ‘07-November 15, 2007 Unleashed-November 17, 2009 Generations- December 6, 2011 -Since the Wii U deal doesn’t exist in ur timeline, to make the mainline gap better, we could add more HD versions of stages from old games. Forces- December 5, 2017 (You guys don’t have to agree with the dates, I just think with more time, Sonic Team can achieve the potential that all the 3D games sometimes achieve) @1:10:55 that would’ve been mega cool. I guarantee Unleashed would be in the 80s on Metacritic and if that was in there.

[@jjthehuman3713]

This was an amazing video that expressed my exact views of the series and also brought up new points that I found myself feeling dumbfounded at how obvious they were. I am very glad I set aside 2 hours to watch this video. You did a great job.

[@senflyer-]

Man this was quite the experience. The conclusion in particular hit me hard. Fantastic video!