The Tragic Downfall Of Japan’s Most Iconic Idol Girl Group

#akb48
How did the idol girl group that had an ubiquitous presence in all spheres of public and private life in Japan, suddenly disappear to irrelevance?
Let's find out in today's video.
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Al
I graduated from Waseda University 早稲田大学 (the alma mater of the current Japanese Prime Minister, as well as the one before Shinzo Abe, and business leaders of Asia such as the Chairman of Samsung Group, CEO of Sony, president and CEO of Honda, etc) with a degree in Global Political Economy 国際政治経済学科 at the Department of Political Science and Economics 政治経済学部, and have decade plus years of experience living in Japan.
I am in charge with most of the research and presentation on our KZbin Channel.
Helen
My wife Helen majored in Japanese Language for her bachelor's degree, and have broad experiences working in Japan as a Japanese translator.
Helen is in charge of most of the beautiful editing and thumbnail designs that you see on our KZbin Channel.
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[@Asianalysis]

How do you guys feel about the sudden downfall of AKB and its sister idol girl groups of similar style, and the one-and-only, cannot-be-done-anywhere-else-in-the-world-but-Japan type of “kawaii” look that the group used to overarchingly symbolize? Are you guys excited about this new direction in which J-pop and the entertainment industry of Japan is slowly but surely heading right now, or are you guys disappointed? Please let us know your thoughts in the comments down below 🙏. And as always, thank you so much for watching, and please make sure to like and subscribe, as well as check out our book in the link down below. ---------------- ◆We are the authors of the newly released book◆ THE SECRETS OF THE JAPANESE MIND- Demystifying the Japanese psyche towards life, gender, love, sex and more. payhip.com/b/eBk45 Please consider purchasing our book if you wish to both support our channel, and read the most thorough, in-depth book on the Japanese psychology that has ever been published (You are free to show us a book that is more comprehensive and detailed than ours). ---------------- ◆About Us◆ Al I graduated from Waseda University 早稲田大学 (the alma mater of the current Japanese Prime Minister, as well as the one before Shinzo Abe, and business leaders of Asia such as the Chairman of Samsung Group, CEO of Sony, president and CEO of Honda, etc) with a degree in Global Political Economy 国際政治経済学科 at the Department of Political Science and Economics 政治経済学部, and have decade plus years of experience living in Japan. I am in charge with most of the research and presentation on our KZbin Channel. Helen My wife Helen majored in Japanese Language for her bachelor's degree, and have broad experiences working in Japan as a Japanese translator. Helen is in charge of most of the beautiful editing and thumbnail designs that you see on our KZbin Channel.

[@darkevilazn]

As long as it moves away from the "seiso", I think its fine. Girls should be allowed to date or w/e, and shouldn't be sold as what we call the "GFE" and thus perpetuating the "stalker" like tendencies that J-pop traditionally established. Instead of being treated like musicians that people liked the songs of, it feels like they were treated as objects to fantasize about. Which is fine if that's how they want to sell, but has a humanist first, its not conducive to the well being of the artist. In other words, if it changes the culture of the fandom so that they are treated as humans more than mere objects, I think its a good direction over all. I think fans and the idols should both be treated has human beings first, not as money bags or sex objects.

[@wasute]

I don't think there's a sudden downfall.... I believe the decline started at 2012... the graduation of maeda atsuko I believe was the catalyst which lead to the sudden graduation of the popular members at that time. And I agree the rise of kpop made the decline clearer...

[@zxztom]

macro economic condition

[@neovxr]

YT suggested this to me when it was outdated already. I never had any respect for AKB and all the 48 64 etc numbered groups, I had pity for the girls that at early age got exploited, and then as adults exploit others, especially naive men and other women that did not go through this psychic experience (that resembles a lot some European cynical feudal habits that were shown in a movie "Dangerous Liaisons" Malkovich/Pfeiffer). The new situation is that women have begun to think clearly about this situation. This means of course another controversy. For me, the viewpoint is this: Japan still should avoid most cultural "westernization", that now comes also with the K-Pop backdoor. Japanese women are extremely talented, resilient, and smart as well, obviously because of the history that shaped selection of successful individuals. Many are great entertainers, can play instruments on world class levels, and are exciting to talk to. The West is not interested to give them due attention and support. Just there is another, different group of male fans in the West, that also are insignificant in terms of Western society. So, these women have to find out on their own, what is going on in these chaotic times, and I have some hope they will create impact. I wish it will be positive. If youtubers take up these topics, they should widen their attention. * There is the rickshaw scene, it seems hundreds of girls are working there, and they do it on their own decision, meeting interesting foreigners and japanese tourists, and making some money to support their studies and campus life. Some are becoming lawyers, diplomats, managers, Disney staff, and actual artists. This experience and the resulting knowledge is crucial. Also it seems these rickshaw teams are quite good friendships and have connections to a lot of other undertakings in entertainment and tourism. * Ex-idols that are actually great artists if not philosophers. There is AiNA the END, super cute and extremely versatile, and one of the most emotional and expressionist singers I ever listened to. There are many world class female rock bands, among them Lovebites and Band-Maid, but also Math-Rock girls with exciting skills on guitar and drums. There is the drummer Senri Kawaguchi and her Jazz and Funk undertakings, currently the "Jazz Avengers". Not to forget the Kuromiya sisters, that had this BRATS girl rock band, exciting songs with a great solo voice, where they could play their own stuff, practically as a recreation from the hard idol work, and they were quite clear in their song lyrics what this really was about, now Rei returns with her girlfriend as REIRIE, it seems they have a lot of control on what they are doing, seems they aren't slaves of a management, because they have been through everything, and fear nothing. They want to live their lives as real, authentic artists and entertainers. * Some ex idols are becoming tourist undertakers, and have created their own genres of touristic entertainment, that seems actually wholesome. They use their charisma, but so far don't seem to abuse it. One of them is "Miley Smiley", now in her early 30ies. Just an example, she is showing to her guests that special tree, that survived the nukes, though it burnt down half side, it is still alive. It has become a cultural symbol to many Japanese people that visit this place, and now foreigners are learning about it.

[@dewaeryadi7776]

i love listening to japanese idol music, even akb48 have some good music, song like tearseller girl and eyewitness, keyakizaka46 also have some song with lyrics that actually can makes me cry, 80s golden age full with talented japanese idols and my mom is big hikaru genji fan, japanese idol group back in the 80s-90s, but the culture itself is very very toxic, japanese idol culture traditionally is old af, its start in 1962, its been problematic since the beginning, johnnys japan first idol group have a 14 years old as member, we can trace back the foundation on modern japanese entertainment culture problem with yoshimoto kogyo, how the agency exploits their talents, if theres something positive about it is how the japanese idol culture keep find a way to evolve, from the old day of Lynn Minmay the anime idol who literally stop interstellar war to hatsune miku, bish, babymetal and now hololive/holostars, vtubers idol that literally the melting pot of japanese entertainment culture and more palatable for foreign market

[@Hollocus16]

This group prevented Japan from joining streaming early due to their reliance on selling CDs, while the rest of the world had already transitioned to digital/streaming services.

[@619AGT]

It’s ironic when you think about it. That despite having been revered for its advanced tech tech industry, Japan fell behind on some things compared to other countries. When you take a closer look, you realize that even though they are indeed advanced, Japan’s not super advanced as it tends to be portrayed in media or entertainment.

[@Jordan-Ramses]

You would have to be stupid to stream instead of selling CDs. You only stream when you can't sell CDs.

[@kingmanic]

@@619AGT Yeah, Japan is highly conservative and that includes a lot of technology. A lot of processes in business still lean into being extremely inefficient. They do things like have a department all hands for decision that could be just 2 people. The beucratic bloat is also insane. The only reason they compete at anything is because the average Japanese worker, works insanely long hours and somewhat hard.

[@nvk225]

No they didn’t lol the child predator did that 😂

[@goatqi]

I was in Japan a couple months ago and what struck me was how technologically advanced they were in some things yet so far behind in others. It was quite the contrast.

[@reset.productions.channel]

Just a Note: KARA was the first group to conquer Japan, no Twice or Blackpink.

[@azurekonpeki]

Yup. Other 2nd gen groups like SNSD, T-ara and 2NE1 did quite well in Japan too.

[@nootnewt9323]

Even before that there was BOA, not a group but BOA became very popular in Japan in the 2000s. TVXQ also became super popular in Japan. But yes KARA and SNSD both had a chokehold on Japan at one point. But I think KARA became more popular in Japan than they were in Korea.

[@Hikikomori_Mimikyu_2003]

In other words, girl groups from South Korea managed to be more popular in Japan and their home country than the actual country is with itself. That right there is already a red flag if your own homeland wasn't popular within itself.

[@rowdyjman94]

​​​​​​​@@nootnewt9323 before BoA, S.E.S released japanese albums & singles & love's japanese version translated by fumiya fujii was the 1st translation of a kpop song to chart on oricon in 2000 at number 100 & "love (japanese ver.) Was promoted on a some stage idk if it was part of some music show once in japan, there's a performance video showing the japanese writer's name & subtitles. So S.E.S entered the japanese market before BoA, BoA happened the breakthrough kpop singer that was moderately successful in japan at first with id; peace b japanese ver. At #20 on oricon but became more successful after when "do the motion" was #1 on oricon in 2006.

[@tommyo2450]

But not like Twice. They've changed the landscape. You're right about Kara being their first tho.

[@chiyul7576]

I believe their downfall is due to the fact that their current or newer generation members lack character and star quality. Look at generation 1 at their peak and how each girl was popular by herself. The new generation is like 1 popular girl with like unknown 20 girls.

[@jsprite123]

Totally agree. That and the fact that the songs in the last few years are not up to part to previous/earlier years' songs. It is not due to the reasons exposed in this video.

[@arielquelme]

Or peoples just being bored with AKB48 Or more rival j idol groups rising

[@jsprite123]

@@arielquelme That too.

[@gigideonis3112]

The new members are incredibly talented, there’s just less opportunities for fans to get to know members outside of the theater because they don’t have a regular variety show or regular guest appearances anymore.

[@pixelpudding3914]

The problem is that they never tried to make a new Kami 7. The reason the og Kami 7 worked because they were all presented TOGETHER, along with having varied personalities that bounced off each other. Acchan was the simple, everyday, girl next door, who worked hard even though she was less radiant than the other girls. (Which IMO is also a really important aspect to the og Kami 7, it’s not just about throwing 7 of the most eccentric members together, but making sure they all work with each other, Acchan served as the everyman who highlighted the colorful cast of characters), Yuko was the chaotic gremlin pervert who was a dancing machine, Takamina was the emotional and strong leader who always knew what to do and carried the group through their worst of times, Mayuyu was the sweet, pure and cutesy artistic otaku with a perfect idol look that one might mistake her for a cyborg/cg, Mariko was the sadistic older sister with a sentimental story of failing the 1st Gen audition, getting hired at the cafe next to the theater, and through sheer love from the fans joined the group after learning all the songs in 4 days (plus Ue Kara Mariko),Tomochin was the glamorous, fashionista, taste deaf gyaru (and iirc, her solo song Dear J actually charted higher than several other 48g songs that were released around the same time?), and Kojiharu was the pretty but airheaded wota beauty queen. Their hairstyles outfits, centered songs, everything was tailor made to show off their personalities, why they never tried to do this again is one of the most mind boggling business decisions ever. Like it didn’t even need to be as concrete as another Kami 7, but AKB needs those gp friendly members so there’s a place to start. Paruru, Sasshi, Rena, Jurina, Sae, Sakura, Sayanee, Mion, Nana, Yuiyui, Erii, Milky, and probably a few more I’m missing we’re all individually popular, but we’re never presented as an actual group. (Also I deliberately excluded Yukirin from this bc she’s just a whole other thing) People literally struggle to mention a new Gen girl (Yuiyui is probably the ONLY one who someone MIGHT be able to mention), yet you say “Above shoulder length hair in a side part with eyebrow grazing bangs, light brow side part with waves, pixie cut + Hime bangs, half up - half down ponytail with side swept Hime cut bangs and a bow, frontal bangs and high twin tails, long wavy hair and side swept bangs, and straight mid length hair with side bangs” and you can literally tell who is supposed to be who. (Kojiharu and Yuko do sound similar when you just say it, but I’ve always noticed that kojiharu’s hair was longer and more she was more likely to have it wavy or curled, vs. Yuko’s who had shorter hair on average, and she usually kept hers really really straight ). There were literally these pictures that were floating around Twitter a while ago of a makeup artists/influencer who copslayed Tomochin, and in addition to the fact you can even cosplay her in the 1st place, all she did was out on a brown lace front wig and some glittery eyeliner, and people were able to tell it’s Tomochin, and the cherry on top is that she hasn’t even done that style of makeup and hair in more than a decade, honestly the MILLISECOND, Kojiharu announced graduation, management should’ve immediately tried pushing some of the new Gen girls while Kojiharu and Mayuyu “held the fort down” I will NEVER get why they did this.

[@yoon9521]

Minegishi wasn't forced to shave her head, she literally did it herself that also shocked the whole management

[@xlambs]

The channel owner, a prodigious university grad, didnt fully research and is embellishing for views and sell their book. Using terms like “forced” and figurative speech, like “get on her knees” when the video was just a head and shoulders shot. No dogeza or kneeling happened. Also shinoda mariko personalityin the group was not an angel. She was always a boss and a dom. Sure the no date rule , dismissed by the producer, did apply to mariko too, but after leaving an getting married, not everyone was so shocked by her behavior. Marriages fail , even for idols.

[@yoon9521]

@@xlambs ikr, shame on him for spreading misinformation and milking it

[@pixelpudding3914]

@@yoon9521 It’s also wild asf that it is never mentioned ever that the guy she was dating is also an idol? Alan Shirashima from EXILE, (which btw no hate, I love EXILE in the same way I love Morning Musume or Arashi or SMAP or Perfume etc.) like ofc 2 celebrities being in a relationship would be a hot topic? Literally just open up any social media platforms and the 3rd thing will probably be about some sort of celebrity romance gossip. (Also I don’t think it’s right either that people care so much about celebrities’ personal lives, but it’s so fucking wack that whenever people bring up the Miichan scandal they talk about how unfair the rule is for women yet they’re basically absolving the guy of sin by omitting that fact.)

[@UrWeid]

Right, wanted to say the same. It's the disinformation and not the only one here. Plus the tone towards Japanese idols and their fans is really condescending. Plus very broad generalisations here and there using several not so pretty cases of some idol girls (similar to which if not much worse you see everywhere in showbiz in every country, including Korea which the author understandingly sees in a kinda pink-er light here)

[@tonygallagher6989]

Thank you. You saved me the time I would have spent watching the video.

[@seadoll]

Akb48 is definitely a legendary group for the history books. Akb48 was a product of that time that influenced the current idol system we know today. I think the main reason for their downfall is their inability to keep up with the time, music- and trend-wise, like, just look at AKB48 stuff from like 2018 up until now. The production of their music videos is far behind. Their company is now trying to revive their popularity by making their concepts more modernized and trendy for the public and implementing a system, but it's not working out for them. Also, I think Akb48 generally started going downhill when the original popular members that shaped the group started to graduate because no newer member could match up to their charismatic personality, and another thing I wanted to mention is that as kpop groups continue to grow in popularity in Japan, typical idol groups like Akb48 are slowly losing their grips as what it means to be the standard idol group." and Although akb48 is at their downfall, their concept isn't that they are still influencing idol groups. For example, tripleS has a system similar to akb48, and also Nct and snh48, who were formerly a Chinese sister group of akb48 before their own independent group. The whole produce series voting system is similar to the akb48 voting system.

[@Jordan-Ramses]

The CEO of Hololive has said it's based on akb48. If you aren't familiar Hololive is the top Vtuber company in Japan and the World.

[@AznIntegra521]

Their music style and concepts are too out dated. What their putting out is basically not appealing to a younger audience which is no surprise, no wonder kpop is sp popular now in japan. U look at what kpop groups are putting out, modern music, with more mature concepts. Akb is still doing cutesy childish concepts which doesn’t work anymore now. If this was in the 2000’s then its gaming changing but this is 2024. Even i can tell Japanese younger audiences wants more mature and relatable concepts similar to what they see in kpop. Akb should look at XG and what their doing for inspiration. What xg is doing as a Japanese girl group is really good.

[@aahfeeki]

i always compare bts to akb (corny, but hear me out) one was able to use social media to their advantage and keep an eye out for rising trends leverage off of them at their peak, while at the same time reinforcing the parasocial relationship by making those tweets seem personal. the other had social media be their downfall where idols used it to go behind the management's back and say things that would go against PR advice and media training.

[@AznIntegra521]

@@aahfeeki well kpop labels also train their trainees on social media usage as well. Its coz they don’t want them to put out anything that could hurt the group image or the label

[@GL-iv4rw]

Japan is not a soft superpower anymore due to its stagnant economy and shrinking population. As long as that remains the case there will be no cultural comeback, therefore no good J-pop music. They are finished!!!!!!!

[@papajon7007]

I am a teacher in Japan and I remember being horrified at how much money a Jr high school student of mine used for Hand Shake events for AKB 48. 20,000 yen to shake the hand of just one member.

[@yukiakito3083]

Damn!

[@yeelinrox]

While I agree with more of the reasons you stated in the video, I don't think you touched on the graduation system enough (aka. popular members leaving and bringing the fandom with them) which was also the downfall of other previously popular groups like Morning Musume and even kpop group After School (though bad management had a significant impact on this as well)

[@icecold__]

Yep, that's probably the biggest reason. Once Reina, Sayumi and Risa left Morning Musume, I had no reason to follow that group anymore.

[@Kujoestar-]

Imo Pledis ruined AS with Orange Caramel, of course I'm not going to deny that I really like that subunit, but once Nana, Raina and Lizzy left Pledis (resulting in the "dissolution" of OC), the public had already lost the interest in After School

[@Junakiba966]

I was gonna comment pointing that out too, after the girls of "my" generation left i just had no reason to keep following the group anymore. It's not just about their songs and events alone, for a group that we get to know so much about their "personality", see them on a regular basis made us grow attached to their charisma, smile, weird or funny quirks and tastes. Trying toget attached to a whole group of new faces is just another ordeal that kinda makes me sad and fond of the time i spent laughing with 1 + 1=2 BB from ske48 i used to love the girls dynamic and yagami kumi is my favorite ever

[@Sunow9100]

​​@@icecold__this was also me when i was a big riho and maimi fan

[@neovxr]

There is a simple but crucial thing to see, this business does not support sustainable careers, because after becoming adults, they simply would become competition. But for society, it would be a good thing, to have entertainers for decades, that do nice stuff that is fairly wholesome.

[@sleepysartorialist]

I really dislike how controlling fans are of idols. It's healthy to grow up and live a normal life. AKB-48 was never going to last in the modern world. Too similar to geisha but without the historical value to justify the continued existence...just let these women live.

[@gheryl_m]

they know full well what they were signing up for. if they don't like it, they can just leave.

[@qxujevozaeni1240]

Korea & Japan both have this idol chastity culture though.

[@qxujevozaeni1240]

​@@gheryl_mIf East Asia didn't have such strong blind conformity, far more people would push to change this restrictive system.

[@saymyname2417]

The management is in control, not these patheic simps. But the latter got the money. And if the girls want some of it they have to bend to the rules. Whatever is wrong with these societies that created and even expanded the field for this j-k-pop/entertainment "idol worship"... it's abdolutely sick. PS: is that the same in mainland China or Taiwan and Singapore?

[@metamon2704]

That was literally the point of AKB48 - 'Idols you can meet'

[@DaMechaTalks]

The whole thing about inflating sales numbers of their CDs by emotionally manipulating their fans into buying bulks of it, speaks volumes about their actual talent as performers or music artists and how they probably didn’t deserved to dominate the charts like this. It wouldn’t be too far fetched thinking that the majority of Japanese based music labels and artists breathed a sigh of relief once the charts went over to a more fair system for evaluation.

[@redfish337]

When was the last time you bought a physical single? Japan has held onto physical media longer, but the single was already dying when AKB came to power and has long been the medium of the pop group. So yes, they care about the ranking, but the ranking is basically just about boy groups and girl groups fighting it out. This is STILL TRUE. It's now also the realm of K-pop and anisong. The chart right now: 1) boy group 2) girl group 3) K-pop male soloist 4) girl group 5) anisong 6) anisong, I think? 7) anisong 8) boy group 9) boy group 10) anisong, though maybe could just classify as single by soloist This isn't the whole of J-pop. This is what still releases singles in 2023. A chart from 2011 would have looked similar- regular J-pop had already abandoned the single chart. This is just how the Japanese music industry works. There's no united standard to rank things. Some have extremely high internet presence- but basically never actually perform anywhere. Others sell out huge venues but regularly not even get to 100K views online. The idol groups fight it out in the singles ranking. Their power being focused there shouldn't be overstated as applying to the industry as a whole. But it shouldn't be understated as not being relevant.

[@nannerrammer]

Unless you were in the #1 top selling idol group with a talent agency that's got consistent concert bookings and can fill to capacity, CD sales aren't that important. So, if you're one of the many idols and idol groups that's not #1, then CDs are basically the idol's main source of revenue. Fans know this, and drop massive amounts of cash on CDs from their favorite idols so that they can keep doing idol activities. What's worse, is how idols base pay is extremely low, since they're managed by talent agencies rather than music labels. While there's a lot things that really suck about the idol industry, the thing that infuriates me the most is seeing coming across idols that ARE genuinely talented singers get overshadowed by other groups, forced to sing songs that were catered to popular tunes that literally all sound the same, or constantly overtaken by other idols due to trend, until they all just fade away as something that could've been but never will as the hundreds of idols. To be fair, when the first "idols" became appearing in Japan , they actually produced really good music with the 70's and 80's cranking out cute girls and good songs. But, then came the concept of "idol groups", which led to the malnourished cash cow masequrading as music that you see today. p.s. I apologize for making this so long , but Japan made some great music during the 70's to early 90's. I wouldn't say the BEST, but good enough that anyone who appreciates music wouldn't be dissapointed as it was heavily influenced by UK and US with rock, funk, jazz, folk, and early hip-hop. I just hope people can realize that Japan can produce actual music that's not this j-poppy money-making garbage

[@Lvlaple4Ever]

You’re going a bit far saying as if they’re talentless. I would still much rather listen to them than over auto-tuned K-pop garbage 😂

[@sp4cegrl27]

hey now…let’s not bring the talent into this, some of them members (especially the older ones) were at one point some of the best talent japan had to offer during their time period…

[@alertafuegochango]

Now why are u saying it like it's the girls fault or like it was their idea😭😭😭 Its a system that was made and its still used by capitalist money hungry companies, and the creator Aki P. That same system is used in K-Pop now with the different photocards and fancalls, etc. The girls were basically just salaried workers that were victims of the same system (ex: the extreme dating ban) and no need to call them untalented cuz a lot of them were not, specially the og members. Yes, a lot of them were not skilled but it was cuz the group was selling a girl next door type of idol, and didnt bother to train them, the girls had to train themselves by watching their seniors. One member Sashihara Rino said it wasn't necessary to be able to sing and dance cuz a lot of the male fans liked to tell the girls they weren't good, and the audience liked to watch them grow as performers over time. But most of the girls were very hard working, naturally charming and talented, both in singing and dancing but what most excelled at was stage presence and being able to perform well and put on a good show, also some of their songs are fire af, tho not nearly as popular or influential they still are at the top of the charts

[@saaomg12]

It's also important to note that they were also popular enough to have a anime of their own (AKB0048). It wasn't the most popular, but I definitely enjoyed it, as least as a kid.

[@matchilk]

Both the anime and the girl group were very popular back in the day in my country. Side note: my first phone number ends with 0048 cuz the anime was so popular and I used to love it so much

[@BastardWolf28]

Pffft, what are you talking about? AKB0048 is a relatively recent.... OMG, IT CAME OUT 12 YEARS AGO! This is also the first time I see someone talking about this show since it aired.

[@rasskall-aka-Luke_A.]

As someone who worked in Japan for 6 years in the mid-to- late 90's (Morning Musume heyday), I had always wondered why AKB and their subgroups were so popular; all the concerts, Kouhaku Utagassen (a popular song contest every New Year's Eve) appearances, etc. I now understand.

[@yukitoxmiyu]

I love Morning Musume 😭

[@Gankoittetsu]

I love Morning Musume Golden era 🥰🥰🥰

[@mlo009]

Fellow Morning Musume fan.

[@budi_bravo_9]

Virtual Idol is also gaining traction in japan and the world, with a safer way to interact with fans due to inherent anonimity of virtual avatars, I think in the future it will replace current form of japanese idol style of entertainment

[@Pry0g9O]

Ada benarnya, ning yo mbuh ding 😅

[@michaelweston1042]

Wow, what a hit piece. Firstly as far as I understand. Minami Minegishi was not forced to shave her head. She did that on her own. Also there is no way a group gets so popular without a wide audience. They are popular with women as well. To be popular enough to be in tv and adds can't be done only appealing to one group. I have seen plenty of adds done by G48 for FEMALE specific products. There was even a pic in this video of Kyary Pamyu Pamyu. She clearly has a large female audience. It's kawaii culture and many Westerns just don't get it. As to the music. Clearly you don't like it. Well a lot of other people do. It's fun, positive and energetic. G48 members do 100's of songs. each with their own choreography. Done with much larger group size then compared to the few songs a Kpop group puts out. With typically around 5 members. So of course they are going to be different in what they do. AKB48 has been around a long time. Almost 20 years. Most of the most popular members left. They got rid of the senbatsu elections. Which was much like American Idol and drew in a lot of fans because they could be involved in the election of the members. Getting rid of that hurt the groups popularity. They probably got rid of it due to criticism and controversy of the type mentioned in this video. They should not have listened and kept doing it. AKB48 doesn't put out the amount of music they used to as well. Things have changed and nobody stays at their peak forever. It should also be noted that kpop groups do sell tickets in their albums for "virtual handshake" events. Where you get to spend a short amount of time talking to kpop idols. A lot of what AKB48 pioneered others are doing. In fact the presenter totally skipped "market saturation". AKB49 spun off a HUGE amount of imitators. HUGE, this also has had an effect on the original group.

[@deearr7787]

produce 101 are big imitation of AKB48 senbatsu election.

[@michaelweston1042]

For sure, you had G48 members participate as well. @@deearr7787

[@user-nk5dj7fc6q]

Finally, a reasonable comment

[@michaelweston1042]

I will not be shamed for enjoying G48. It's all about fun and positivity. That's about it. At least to me and many others. @@user-nk5dj7fc6q

[@Insideranon]

Nailed it. This needs to be the top comment.

[@jettiful]

how come the existence of the almighty rival group composed of the Sakamichi groups, Nogizaka and Keyakizaka46 not mentioned here?? They were the icing at the top of the cake's reason why the 48 group keeps dipping low all because of their newer and fresher concept especially in their music

[@ozekistyle]

They did mention them, but said that the sakamichi series are sister groups of AKB. Basically ignoring another fact of AKB's fall from popularity, the rise of Shiraishi Mai, Nishino Nanase, Hirate Yurina, and Etc.

[@jettiful]

@@ozekistyle "sister groups" oh dear🥲 They(The Sakamichi girls) are totally from Sony Music which separates them. I hope he could have checked that

[@ozekistyle]

@@jettiful excactly! as soon as I heard that, I took everything the video said with a grain of salt, that's like basic information if you make an essay about AKB.

[@Aru_im]

He just make this video for the clicks, he never intended to do research for it at all.

[@datetenou7059]

ironiclly, AKB have fallen but their sister group SNH in china is surviving pretty well

[@AyaHaru0915]

snh was not their sister anymore as snh claims they are independent/original group

[@datetenou7059]

@@AyaHaru0915 yes they spilt up in 2016, rumors is that becasue AKB limits their music to only follow AKB style so SNH's music has to be send to AKB for approval, with that stress and control SNH decide to cut off ties but doing so somehow extend its lifespan and more wider range of music type for the chinese audience SNH48 also has access to Cdrama resource thus the idols sometimes work as dual hybrids

[@Aru_im]

@@datetenou7059 I still remember their debut days and their splitting. The rumors were they were just using 48 Group name just to boost their popularity and left so they can gain the profit alone. If they don't like what 48G doing, they could at least change the name after they left. The fact that it's based in China, meaning 48G couldn't really do anything about it.

[@datetenou7059]

@@Aru_im japan did try to start another official sister group in china but nv make any difference, and by that time its already Cdrama period so SNH48 pretty much survived due to that as some of its members go acting

[@thehanabata]

The whole 48 group system was already going on a downhill before this, but the whole NGT48 scandal (with Yamaguchi Maho, which was very briefly touched upon here but the details of that go way deeper and crazier) is what really assured their downfall. They handled that situation so horribly, that there was no way for them to ever recover from it. It even killed the AKB48 elections, and what bought in the most CD sales, which was one of the group's biggest events. Those were even broadcasted live on the biggest TV stations in Japan. I remember coming to Japan for the first time in 2011 (when AKB was at their peak), and how much of a major event the AKB elections were for each year after that. I did like them a lot during that time, but due to all their scandals (especially the NGT48 one) it really just started turning people off and away from them.

[@TERRA_-uk5gg]

1. The new members aren't showing off their personalities enough. It's more about working together as a collective, so while the overall balance of the group is arguably better than it was during their golden era, there isn't that dynamic X-factor that can propel the group back into the spotlight. 2. They don't do enough to promote their new singles. This is more of a management issue, but for the last several years, they kept asking the members to perform Flying Get, Heavy Rotation, and Koisure Fortune Cookie on TV. Since they're performing the same old songs with little variation, it seems they're clinging to how great the golden era was instead of showing how great their current songs are. 3. Scandals as well as stories of how management handled these scandals. 4. Akimoto Producer isn't as invested in the group compared to the golden era. Former members (especially the earlier generations) mention how Akimoto Producer would frequently visit the theater to check on the members as well as gain inspiration for the new singles. For me, that's why the new members struggle to recapture the magic when they perform Flying Get and Heavy Rotation because those two singles were tailored specifically towards its centers (Maeda Atsuko and Oshima Yuko). Now, based on former members, Akimoto Producer doesn't come to the theater as much, so the songs don't really highlight the members' characters anymore.

[@gwiyomikim5988]

To this day AKB48’s “Heavy Rotation” is such a sweet, fun, and wholesome video it’s always been one of my favorites.🥰

[@elly.a4153]

Shida Manaka from Keyakizaka46 never promoted herself as a pure cute girl. In fact, Keyakizaka46 had always been controversial and thrives on that whether it's about their ace/center getting into accidents repeatedly, songs that tackles depression and bullying, blatant favoritism, lack of talent in variety shows, dating scandals( more about the girls having such bad taste in men) etc. You just have to be there while it's happening....Very interesting experience despite being so short.

[@merefinl6914]

I'm very interested in AKB's history, so thank you for making a video about them! From what I remember, the competitive ranking format of AKB inspired some of the competitive ranking systems that Kpop has today. The Produce101 series in particular drew a lot of inspiration from AKB's senbatsu system. It's fascinating!

[@AkaiNaruto]

Minegishi minami was not forced to shave her head. Infact, no one even suggested her to do it

[@hannah60000]

So, why did she do it then? Why did the team and music agency not stop or advice otherwise? Who recorded the video and so on?

[@AkaiNaruto]

@@hannah60000 she did it herself without telling anyone and she herself was the one who posted it on KZbin.

[@rblueangel939]

She did it her self to stay in the group all the girls sign a contract that they can't be with any man except family members like brother or dad and she broke the rule with posting pictures and being under age in a party she was invited from a boy band that's why

[@andreahl3494]

​@@rblueangel939So she WAS cornered and was mentally forced shave her head and stay in the group or else she'll be excommunicated. Still not healthy.

[@kpopattack01]

​@@andreahl3494 still not correct

[@JohnnyLynnLee]

The Koreans in KPOP also in general don't sing well. They DANCE well, very well. The singing is in other parts, like in J ROCK. I don't think the industry needs to chose between one or the other. BOTH styles can co-exist. Because thinking you have to chose between one and the others IS the real problems with both the Korean AND the Japanese idol industry- all must be equal, the same. The existence of the Japanese model and the Korean model AT LEAST proves you can have more than one model working. But NO! Here we go homogenizing everything again.

[@tommyo2450]

They are much better singers overall.. not all but most.. It's very clear. AKB48 is a patriarchal concept that has run it's course. There is no place for it really anymore. The genius of Kpop was (iesp Twice) was having a J line. MiSaMo has worked out very well for the three girls and Twice.

[@JohnnyLynnLee]

@@tommyo2450 KPOP isn't a patriarchal concept? You kididn' me? And NOPE. They DON'T sing well. Acceptable at most. To begin with they don't even sing LIVE. KPOP has no "genius" other than the EOCNOMIC genius of it. It's a GERVEMENT PLAN (Korean wave) to sell overseas. It's COMPLETELY artificial and homogenous, it's mass production, based on a factory system, with NO ROOM at all for creativity or individuality. Both systems have problems. At least the Japanese one isn't so artificial, it1s way more organic.

[@JohnnyLynnLee]

@@tommyo2450 And the ONLY Reason Korea came up with such a monstrous system it's because Korea developed under the brutal dictatorship of Park Park Chung Hee. so, as explained for example in The Birth of Korean Cool or From Factory Girls to K-Pop Idol Girls: Cultural Politics of Developmentalism, Patriarchy, and Neoliberalism in South Korea's Popular Music Industry, they repressed art everywhere. You could be thrown in jail for just having a guitar on the streets. So, different form the West they have no spontaneous art, like in the West. It was all designed by a government plan. form scratch. While Japan developed in a much freer environment.

[@JohnnyLynnLee]

@@tommyo2450 And that's why you have J rock but you DON'T have K ROCK. To produce rock bands it needs to be organic, at least to some extent. Korea couldn1t do it. and don't other doing it even today. Because it's just for the money, revenue for the money, exports, just like Samsung cellphones or Hyundai cars.

[@tommyo2450]

@@JohnnyLynnLee J rock? The only Japanese rock bands anyone really knows are women following the success of Babymetal.. Some of it good and that's only a few.. The rest is relatively unknown outside Japan. There are some old school rockers that musicians know but... Korea, btw, has some great rock even metal but it is dominated by Kpop..

[@PurpleAmharicCoffee]

All entertainers deserve to have a healthy private life, the industry is still very sick worldwide. Just because someone is good at something like singing or acting, they do not owe any one of us anything. I love cheesy catchy pop songs like those of my childhood, and it broke my heart to learn of the pressure these entertainers are under.

[@starfromakihabara4896]

When akb golden era,akb revenue count almost 10% of japan music industry no other act can do that

[@jasonfanclub4267]

And it's important to know that Japan is (or was) the second largest music industry worldwide

[@Ruriko.Y]

@@jasonfanclub4267 still is, I believe. Japan doesn't need to expand overseas to sell.

[@user-nk5dj7fc6q]

@@Ruriko.YYet, just wait and see

[@joshthefunkdoc]

@@user-nk5dj7fc6q Yeah, you have to wonder with the yen being what it is now. We've seen a change already happen in pro wrestling for example (where Japan has always been the 2nd or 3rd largest market in the world as well), as more and more of the top stars over there are jumping to the US for bigger paydays with WWE & AEW. Hell, plenty are making more money even just working indie shows in the States!

[@bb4251]

@@Ruriko.Y Yeah, Japan makes 2.2 billion USD domestically from its music industry. Korea has slightly smaller domestic numbers, but its overall reach totals a net worth of 8 billion USD because of international concerts, sales, and events.

[@iwantarandomname121]

I prefer the "innocent" than the super sexy dance moves of KPop. Then again AKB48 is anything but innocent (when looking at some of their music videos 😅). Don't even start about photobooks. 😅 Maybe there comes a time when music will be appreciated for the music. Not for any other reasons.

[@hannah60000]

I agree. It’s the kawaii thing that has Japan in the chokehold. 😅 I remember someone breaking down what many Japanese mean when they say “kawaii” and innocence isn’t always the thing that comes to mind. It’s definitely context driven. Back to AKB48, some of those promotional posters (even in this video) were certainly not “innocent”. Dear I say it, some were very “risky” to say the least. 😅 Peace!

[@Neonlight.]

lets remember its the group that sang "Uniform is getting in the way" 15 years ago about national spreading enjo kosai with some of the member girls at the time being underage themselves

[@Xbox360gamer15]

I also thought at the photobooks as he metioned the "pure and innocent" vibe... I mean did you ever see Kojiharus photobooks from 2009-2015? I mean they are really sexy and she's definitley not the only one. Yukirin is another case. So I don't think that they are seen as innocent, just as kawaii and tbh. isn't that what counts? A girl can be cute and kawaii, but doesn't have to be "true innocent and pure".

[@SephirothSpirit]

Before I start watching this, I'd like to note that there is the Sakamichi groups who are growing hugely in popularity. You have Nogizaka46 that are currently the biggest Japanese idol group in Asia, and Sakurazaka46 who are recently branching outside of Japan, with their recent shows in France and Malaysia. Also I heard that Kpop is losing steam recently because of the lack of creativity and competition within Korea, as the music industry is being owned by a few major corporations. Correct me if I'm wrong though, since I'm not all into the Korean side of the entertainment industry.

[@rowdyjman94]

If you see sales & ranking charts of the japanese 48 groups & sakamichi groups, most of them already peaked in single sales even nogizaka is selling less than their peak I think & see most 48/46 groups have sold less singles recently so I'm starting to think less people are buying singles from groups with songs written by yasushi akimoto imo. I notice less kpop charts in japan recently even the japanese versions of songs but jpop kpop-like groups like JO1 & INI are starting to become more successful than actual kpop acts promoting in japan imo & single sales prove it although having sakura in le sserafim helps her group sell in japan.

[@SephirothSpirit]

@@rowdyjman94 I just did a simple Google search for Sakurazaka46 (the group i personally follow) and already the first two or three links proved your comment wrong. Start over! broke their own record last year and and Shonin Yokkyu exceeded even that. They have also won some competitions recently against other kpop groups. 2nd gen seemed to have eclipsed 1st gens popularity overall especially with the rotation of several members as center, as opposed to management forcing Techi to center and running her out the business.

[@bb4251]

Kpop is not losing steam but music corporations have been buying out major agencies! Competition still remains fierce and the corporations have limited impact on the creative direction of the music. Girl Groups like IVE, New Jeans, and Aespa are selling 1-3x the amount of albums that Nogizaka 46 and AKB48 right now. Jpop girl groups used to outsell korean girl groups prior to the pandemic, but after the pandemic kpop girl group sales have exploded - with more expensive albums too. Prior to the pandemic, the top selling girl group sold around 200,000 copies of an album. Right now in 2024, the top selling girl groups are able to sell 1.8+-2 million albums in the first week (IVE, G(Idle)). Compared to top Jpop girl groups like Nogizaka who are now selling around 500k-700k copies per album. Even though major corporations like HYBE, CJENM and Kakao are acquiring new labels, they don't really interfere with what labels choose to do unless it's regarding financial politics. HYBE (BTS's Company) bought over 4 companies, but their artists are continuing to thrive. Seventeen (under a label of HYBE) is now the best selling Boy Group in all of Kpop, with 35 million copies of albums sold (each more expensive than the average JPOP album). Prior to the acquisition by HYBE and before the international explosion of KPOP, seventeen was getting around 1 million album sales per year. In 2023, they just broke records for selling 16,772,413 albums and selling out stadiums worldwide. I live in a big city in the US (Atlanta) where we get at least 1 kpop artist on tour each month, and the vast majority of them selling out entire stadiums with 13,000 to 45,000 seats. Last year, Blackpink and Twice were the first international artists to sell out the met life stadium - with 50,000 seats total @ an average price of $200 for a seat and a high price of $800/seat. Kpop groups like Aespa, Twice, Stray Kids, Seventeen, TXT are making over 10 million dollars in gross profit for each concert they host in the US - Blackpink made $340 million dollars last year during their world tour.

[@joeyl4200]

I love AKB and HKT 48, but I also love Twice, Oh My Girl, Super Girls, etc.

[@paulwalther5237]

I studied Japanese about 10 years ago. I took small group online classes. I remember one of the teachers assuming everyone in the class was at least interested in AKB if not a fan. None of us were.

[@Chris3s]

I am not sure about other sectors in japan, but I believe that with the pandemic japan started to digitalize more. Vtubers became much more popular, nowadays there is a lot of ads about vtubers too. With vtubers also becoming more popular overseas and the same agencies employing non-japanese vtubers the culture around vtubers/idols in japan started to shift (people started to accept that these idols are not theirs and can have their own lives. This depends on the vtuber themselves though, as there are still many who cater to more parasocial fans eg. offer wedding fan items). Not sure about this, but it could also result in a shift in adjacent sectors such as offline/RL idols. Also in the past girl's generation and such were also popular, but the cutesy style is not as popular anymore.

[@Asianalysis]

Thanks for the comment, Chris. Agree with much of the points that you’ve made here. And yes, I did forget to mention that there was pre-2016 Kpop groups such as KARA and Girl’s Generation, like you said, that were popular in Japan. But then, thinking back to the atmosphere at the time, I think the people in Japan still considered the Girl’s Generations and the KARAs from Kpop as more of these “separate entities” to the endogenous AKBs, thus not having not much of a direct impact on their popularity.

[@jasonfanclub4267]

Right, Vtubers are the next generation

[@ausgod538]

​@@jasonfanclub4267no they aren't. Unlike akb48 vtubers never reached mainstream in Japan

[@jasonfanclub4267]

@@ausgod538 actually virtual idols are very popular since a few years see Hololive

[@kelvinw.1384]

​@ausgod538 ummm a bunch of them are selling out 50k stadiums. Pekora from hololive sold out budoken. She averages 52k live viewers. It's a 252 billion dollar industry. So where are your opinions matching facts.

[@minakomel]

note: remember they did an 2 anime series with AKB: "ICE" and "AKB0048"

[@otakubullfrog1665]

It seems like it should be possible to adapt their business model to the new way that the music charts are curated by finding a way to reward fans for downloading and streaming the music as opposed to buying CDs. Another group could even do that first if Akimoto is too slow in implementing it.

[@geektheboy]

you should talk about hamasaki ayumi, she was the diva in the 2000s and now Japan hates her according to numerous polls. Which is very sad if we think about her impact as an artist

[@hkmarhk]

The main reason why AKB loses its popularity is the graduations of its popular members. If what he is saying in the video, then why would other idol groups like the 46 groups, who also sell handshaking events tickets through CD, remain quite popular (i.e. going on TV shows) after the downfall of AKB48?

[@riffgroove]

I knew that AKB had suffered a massive decline in sales, but I never considered the reason. It totally makes sense that the pandemic would have utterly decimated the industry. Banning the handshake events and meet-and-greets would have been catastrophic for the group. The other reasons you mentioned are totally valid as well. You can only keep the charade up for so long. As soon as the illusion is shattered, it's nearly impossible to repair. Strange then that "host/hostess" clubs are still doing such incredible business there. I live in Canada, and the very idea of going tk a club to pay someone just to talk and flirt with you would be itterly alien to us. Then again, I have seen some really naive guys at the strip club.

[@user-go3mr8hc2f]

tbh, it feels like AKB's management just to refuse to improve or make a change. Right now, they just look like underground idols even though they used to be the biggest female idol in Japan. Their new song sounds exactly like their older songs. Their male counterpart (now STARTO, previously known as Johnny's) Decided to produce fresh sounding songs. They trained their younger talents to become better singers and dancers. Even their older groups release fresh sounding singles. 🤷 They will release a new single soon and I'm ready to hear another generic cutesy akb chords. 🙃

[@cipaternet]

I know things change quickly but pretending we didn't have social media in 2013 is crazy

[@somecallmeelvis]

AKB48 needs an Iceberg video

[@Seorori]

People kept trying to compare K-pop idols to 48g idols and I'm going to say it again. The two groups operate differently to cater different people. A majority of K-pop idols cater to TV and online audience, which is why there are so many music shows in S.Korea for them to showcase their talent. 48g idols, meanwhile, are focused on interactions with the audience, hence the handshake, weekly theatre performances and various physical activities with fans. So it's obvious that different path require different talents and abilities to cater to different audiences.

[@kgjung2310]

Just to add to this, there is a YT channel named Popsori that goes into more detail on how AKB and typical Kpop idol systems are different due to catering to different tastes, amongst other reasons. For example, would transplanting the AKB system to Korea work? Not likely. Korean audiences want a polished group from the get go and probably wouldn't care for a group debuting that wasn't well trained. Korean audiences also don't like members leaving and being replaced. Some Korean agencies actually tried that and they found the fans really hating it. The market is also too small for the AKB way of doing things to be profitable. Some of the AKB system was transplanted, but with heavy modifications to fit Korean/international tastes.

[@pixelpudding3914]

Yeah I’ve always disliked this comparison, compare AKB to Morning Musume or the Johnny’s guys or something, cuz the J-Pop vs. K-pop thing is literally just 2 counties having different cultures and values

[@reflectlight1368]

That really doesn't justify them not being able to dance even remotely in sync

[@XARIER39]

I like how you didn't spend too much time on one point. Or maybe you did and I just enjoyed it because of the editing. Anyway, nice job!

[@Asianalysis]

Thank you for the kind words, XARIER39!

[@jacetoonz2992]

I appreciate this Lore video. Honestly I enjoyed their Akbingo variety shows starting from the pilot way back 2008. (I only stopped watching the show when the badboys duo mc got replaced) Muchaburi dodgeball, shoujiki shougi and so many other wacky segments. It was a very unique variety show. But I cringe when they sing & dance when credits roll. They are not choreographed very well.

[@garrywilliams7330]

One thing you don't mention is Covid in 2020. AKB48's last single before Covid in March 2020 "Shitsuren, Arigatō" sold 1.4 million copies, the 38th consecutive AKB48 million-selling single (more than The Beatles or Elvis I'm sure). They didn't release another single until September 2021, "Nemohamo Rumor", which only sold 550,000 copies. All of AKB48's singles since the end of Covid have sold between 500,000 and 700,000 copies. Something happened to the Japanese market during Covid. Nogizaka46's sales dropped at the same time. I'm sure the transition to streaming had a huge impact as well, but now the Japanese music market is dominated by boy bands like Snow Man. In Korea the boy bands have always sold more CDs than the girl bands, and the girl bands have always had more downloads and streams than the boy bands. There's a reason for that. The average K-Pop fan is typically a teenage girl. If she likes a boy band's song, she will likely buy the CD to get the picture book that comes with it. But if she likes a girl band's song, she might just get a download or stream it and not bother with the CD. I think in Japan, many people have stopped buying the AKB48 CD singles as they come out and new kids growing up haven't started.

[@bb4251]

the biggest boy groups are outselling the biggest girl groups in Kpop, but newer/rookie kpop girl groups are outselling most Boy Groups at the moment. The top kpop boy group, Seventeen was able to sell 16.7 million albums last year in Korea and Japan ($20 each), with an additional 4 million from China (3 million) and the US (1 million). While the best selling girl group of 2023 sold 4 million albums (IVE). As of lately, new girl groups are outselling new (2022-2024) boy groups on average - but well established boy groups like Seventeen, TXT, and Stray Kids from 2013-2019 are outselling these girl groups.

[@pocketstring3634]

In the past few years we seen the rise of Japanese all girl metal and hard rock bands like BandMaid and the growing popularity of Babymetal, Also, the rise of girl idol group XG, in the west. I almost forgot to mention the phenomenon of Atarashii Gakko.

[@yamasakai8215]

I love listening to you talking about your thoughts on the market. Trading alone is really lonely, and it really helps when someone else is also articulating their thoughts!

[@johnjackson3735]

BS on these stereotypes about vocal quality there are great/really good and poor singers in both jpop and kpop.

[@hhbddjstar]

Just my own opinion on the matter, but I think fans are moving their attention elsewhere. Before AKB48 and its associated groups are seen as the girl-next-door that you can relate to and have "a shot at". However, with the introduction of streamers and vtubers, now fans can directly (or indirectly) interact with their favorite idols, social media personalities, etc without having to go through a barrier; in this case, it is the security and company front. Of course, it's all a façade since there still exist a wall, albeit not a physical one. This in turns creates parasocial relationships between the fans and their favorite media personalities, acting as if you are in a relationship. The second reason I think is that people in Japan starts to dislike/distrust big corporation/media. I see a lot of amateur idol groups in the underground scene. And yes, there's always someone behind running the show, but the fans are in such a fine-tuned fantasy that they think their idols are there just only for them. These groups tend to have a small fanbase, and the fans love it, because then their idols can give them more attention (and a part of them feels like they are the only one helping their idol succeed, hero syndrome I would say). But that's just my theory

[@Xbox360gamer15]

I really love AKB, but I'm a westerner so it was clear for me that these cutsey girls play a cetrain role. I didn't thought that (japanese) Fans really believe that they are that pure and innocent. Isn't it more about what you want to see than what you actually can see if you want to look at it? But I can't agree to your conclusion, for me the korean idol idustry is much worse than the japanese. The way how these kpop idols get trained is sometimes inhumen, they must be perfect to have success in the industry, rather than a funny and maybe not perfect person in jpop. Maybe they get more out of their potential, but damn, it breaks so many souls, just look at how many kpop idols committed suicide. Kpop idols have also dating bans and mostly play a role for their fans, it's not that different, just another more extreme version of jpop idol groups with another, more professional focus.

[@metamon2704]

Japanese people don't think idols are pure, this channel clearly don't know what they are talking about - most things in this video are factually wrong.

[@esk4443]

The kpop industry starves the girls to the point where almost all of them develop eating disorders if they are not naturally tiny and petite with a super high metabolism. They pressure them to do plastic surgery constantly and at an early age, where by middle age they will look awful and weird.

[@lorensmith8861]

The popular girls graduated and the next generation girls have large shoes to fill. The bar was raised quite high for anyone to reach. That and COVID ruined everything. Kashiwagi Yuki is the last of the old guard.

[@rblueangel939]

So once maeda atsuko left one by one of the most popular girls started leaving the group so I guess when they notice it was losing popularity they went ahead with produce 48 to bring more Fandom it work but not as expected I'm just guessing but I'm pretty sure they were training Sakura as there new akb48 center but they did produce 48 so yeah and one of the last which I think she was one of the last of the original members Yuki Kashiwagi just graduated this month I notice the down fall once maeda left if you are a fan of this group you might notice it if not is OK go through some videos in KZbin and you will see what I mean

[@AznIntegra521]

Sakura left as soon as her iz*one deal was up. After spending 3 years in korea under the kpop system is enough to change her mind about going back to akb and i’m sure she really didn’t want to go back to doing the akb things. The kpop industry and what they are doing music wise and fashion wise definitely made her want to return to korea and she did.

[@ralphsunico116]

"Please forgive their lack of skill. We purposely trained them wrong... as a joke..." "Wait... What?! That is horrible!"

[@wuthichaiauomsin6237]

that remind me of bnk48 their thailand sister group which has similar scandal but they make older generation headache because it remind them of how thai entertainment industry in the 60-70 that hide their marriage for fear of losing popularity but not anymore today.

[@PinkyRooms]

Wait what happen to them? I know few of them (maybe the older generation) because i watch some thai series

[@hannah60000]

@17:25, DBSK wasn’t a start (way earlier than 2016), but rather Twice and BlackPink were the catalysts?!

[@mgrzx3367]

Didn't a large number of these girls wind up in bad horror movies?

[@sunaamita]

followed AKB and its sister groups until Okada Nana was caught up in a scandal and announced her Graduation from the group.And I even remember at a programme she did a "public condemnation" for Riripon from NMB48,i think. there are no recognisable faces left in AKB48. The only recognisable face is Oguri Yui, who is more or less recognisable. But it seems to me that sooner or later she will announce her graduation from the group.

[@neovxr]

There is a business aspect in all these idol undertakings. They will select girls that are not sustainable on their own, but will always depend on a producer and manager. For a genuine talent it is harder. People should seek them out. BoA (for decades, remember her immortal "Every Heart" Inuyasha song); Lee DaHye (actually! she works as a cheerleader but is one of the greatest dancers, now started to sing at age 25); Sonim (went to musical scene after a life as a popstar, she even did a "Heroine" fighting movie). AiNA the END, Lovebites, Senri Kawaguchi and many Jazz musicians, Atarashi Gakko (great dancers and hip-hop artists), Gacharic Spin, ...

[@jpmrblood]

To add to the conversation, management (Aki-P) saturated the market with another Idol group. I mean, Aki-P launch SKE48 and then Nogizaka46 as rivals for AKB48. However, they are the same, maybe they have some mini differences, but as in general, they are the same. Second, the Japanese also disgusted by the way 48 management handling them. It felt like slavery. Young girls couldn't get into relationships and stuff. I remember reading these articles questioning 48 management about the way they managed their artists. And also, the rise of vocaloid, K-Pop, and other music contenders.

[@keurikeuri7851]

I am a fan of the 1st gen AKB48 with my main idol is Tomomi Itano or Tomochin. I am also a fan of the kpop girl group Oh My Girl. I believe one of the reason why KPOP became more popular than Jpop groups like AKB was because KPOP was very agressive when they were facing local and international communities compared to AKB. Agressive meaning they did everything to make themselves more attractive. Like in the video, they made high level choriographies while performing which was seen compared to jpop performers during Produce 48 in Korea. Also KPOP unlike Jpop AKB never just concetrated in their own language songs. KPOP groups especially popular ones even have japanese, english, chinese and other languages of their songs performed based on the countries they visit that is much how they got more fans internationally. These kpop groups even get language tutorials to fluently talk to their international fans in their local language to the point that these Kpop groups are even the ones doing the opening and ending song of Japanese anime. Like my group Oh My Girl they did the ending song Etoile for the anime series Noblesse.

[@Namidagr]

This was the greatest era of AKB48. I went to Japan twice, in 2019 and 2023. In 2019 they were somewhat relevant too... They had a huge poster mounted to the shopping center were the theatre is and the cafe was there too. I was lucky to see a small live at Odaiba. In 2023 I thought the theatre was closed, went there the place looked ran down... They still release singles, but I don't think they will reach 2009-2013 levels ever again

[@Lenamind]

Me 15 years ago having Shinoda Mariko as a favourite. Me now just learning about Mariko divorcing and living her best life: YEAH YOU GO GIRL

[@huntercoleherr]

The switch to a Korean style of training isn't a good thing. They are treated horribly by the industry, and the training involves insane hours, exploitative pay structures, and yes, frequently even bans on certain activities such as dating.

[@newtrallife4680]

I disagree with saying that japanese entertainment industry is not making international attention. Let me remind you about Yoasobi and Atarashi Gacko not to mention baby metal

[@jealouswitch8872]

just like Morning Musume.. but when the original members started graduating gradually they lost the top spot and I think that's where AKB came in

[@RocKM001]

Was gonna say the exact same thing. A lot of people forget how HUGE Morning Musume used to be before AKB48 came. The whole giant girl idol group is a very cyclical thing. Whilst AKB48 is on their twilight years phase there will be another girl group who will take over once they can capture what this new generation clicks with

[@kisumi_x_x8625]

Simple Answer: 1. Graduation culture 2. Team shuffle

[@kisumi_x_x8625]

Its because the popular members back then graduated. 2012-2014 lots of kami7 graduated and by the end of 2016 watanabe mayu and sashihara rino were the only ones keeping the group at fame. I'd say 2011-2014 was their peak

[@choerryontop]

I hate how idols are marketed as the perfect girlfriend image, instead of being seen as people just like the fans who are going to fall in love and make mistakes. But even so, I still love idols working hard to improve their performance and grow over time

[@davidv2002]

think the whole “quantity over quality” factor really bit them in the rear. because when it came to which members people liked was primarily the main golden era senbatsu members. and once they started graduating, that was when they started falling

[@PlNKUHOSHI]

Minegishi Minami with shaved hair was actually mentioned on the BBC Brittish National News, and several newspapers, it was pretty much news.

[@Lvlaple4Ever]

I don’t think people mainly follow idols because of choreography. The J-pop idols losing to K-pop on TV makes them more relatable to the fans as we’re not all perfect and adds to their “innocent” nature.

[@wakandaforever2056]

love your videos hope u get more subscribers

[@Quon]

I think japan would've greatly benefited from making streaming easier. I get hate for saying this, but it's so hard for foreigners to even listen to any of the songs or watch MVs when good ol avex only publishes 15 sec previews (looking at you ayu and namie)

[@roslolian11]

Honestly think the AKB model was extremely exploitative. Even at their height when they dominated Japan the AKB idols themselves just had fame but didnt get a lot of money, even after graduation top AKB idols had to continue working as models, actresses and singers cuz they didnt become mega rich. You dont really see former idols buying buildings or driving luxury cars like in KPop. Not a lot of money was invested back in AkB system either, the idols barely got any formal dance, singing and acting lessons. AKB joined a kpop audition show and almost all the Japanese talents failed even if they were actual idols already. The JPop talents who did win the show expressed a desire to stay in kpop instead. From outside looking in seems like their producer just kept milking them dry.

[@turpasauna]

I had a phase when I binged on Japanese music videos, especially the dance versions. One thing I noticed was that almost all of the bigger groups were horribly out of synch! Like there were probably hundreds of takes and yet it was clear that they could not handle even 10 second clips.

[@Frooooooo]

And 1 year later you all will hear that Sakura was bashed left and right due to her poor vocal at Coachella and encore performances. People even called her tone deaf

[@MARIOPOWERUP]

She is lol. Half of the group is. Would’ve be a problem if they practiced

[@CatsMeowPaw]

I remember visiting Japan in 2018 and trying to buy a ticket to AKB48. Absolutely impossible. No way to do it for foreigners. That was a pity as it could have expanded the brand beyond Japan.

[@AznIntegra521]

I say kpop plays a pretty decent size part in it. Kpop global rise definitely is more appealing to japanese girls. More and more japanese girls are moving to korea to go through the harsh training coz they want to b kpop idols. Akb is just not appealing anymore especially if u want girls with star power, well those girls are going to korea. Whats left are the ordinary girls. U see what kpop offers and u see akb, their gonna go to kpop coz its more appealing. One of my favorite kpop groups Billlie has two Japanese members, Haruna and Tsuki. They got personality and star power. They’re in kpop coz they like the appeal and what it can offer. Akb doesn’t have it anymore in a changing landscape. Even china has adopted a trainee system for their music industry. Its to appeal to the young recruits and to stop kpop from stealing their talent. Akb needs to get with modern times and switch things up

[@palgotzoona]

What I found interesting about Produce 48 (half Korean trainees, half AKB, resulting in the group Iz*One) was that if you use the 4-point grading system that JYP uses in his audition TV programs, the two groups are each top class in different areas. The Korean trainees are excellent in Vocal and Dance, while the AKB members have so much on-stage and in-person experience that they max out JYP’s “Star Quality” category. (The 4th “Personality” category is its own thing.) For example, the moment the Korean trainees stop performing their razor-sharp choreographed routines, they’re suddenly transformed into nervous little kids standing on stage waiting to be judged. In contrast, on average the AKB members (let’s be honest) bumble around adorably on stage, and yet are charming and bright even afterward. Because that’s literally their AKB job. Of course they don’t like suddenly being shown how lacking they are in skills, but they’re entirely comfortable on stage, something the Korean trainees utterly lack. That contrast was really interesting to watch.

[@MillywiggZ]

Keeping all those guys fed in a week would bankrupt any record label hahaa! Why are there 48 of them? They worried only 20% will survive the winter or something like they’re cattle during times of old?

[@ryanshoptaw6006]

The original idea was to have 48 members, but ultimately have way more. They have different teams (Team K, Team A, Team B, etc) which allows them to do multiple shows a night with different lineups.

[@lluuiizzff]

they had so much more than 48 members

[@alertafuegochango]

Tbh men in Japan are always allowed to cheat and not get any punishment, Mariko gets the pass in my book,, she's mother i think

[@8imouse]

She isn't "bold" she has like 3/4 inch hair on her head, we can see colour meaning it's more than half of an inch. And is she on her knees? The camera is positione so she could be standing or sitting on a chair ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ On the main topic, I really liked their music and dorama Majisuka Gakuen. Didn't know about this behind the scenes drama. Sad to see them like this.

[@ariusbudiman7105]

I follow AKB48 from 2007-2014 this is they 'Golden Era' but FYI K-Pop first success in Japan start from SM ask Japanese company AVEX TRAX join for debut Korean artist BOA early 2001 and hit after SM and BOA many Korean producers adapt J-Pop music to Korean music and than more Korean company and artists debut in Japan and success after that K-Pop famous in global.

[@Mawzi]

a question since i know nothing about japan, are love live idols popular there?

[@troylandzerep8045]

ive seen som of there recent stuffs and there dance moves are a little moe complex now..specially with the newer members

[@simshengvue4642]

Why is there no mention of streamers and v tubers here? They have the same appeal. They are way more personable. They do one thing that K-Pop and J pop cannot do. You invest a lot more time with them

[@CatherinexxKC]

Quickly scimming the comments and no mention of Sakura????? Surely her leaving and becoming a KPOP star formed and shaped some of the viewers/consumers to switch over to KPOP and consume that media instead.

[@jchan8539]

I got into jpop through variety shows like akbingo. The music was some times good, but I skipped the music portion of the show. Produce48 was the start of the end. Kpop, had variety programs too. They were better, and I actually liked the music. It also didn't help that they ended akbingo. One main thing I wanted to mention, kpop is not without it's problems. Look what happened with 50/50 and loona.

[@bb4251]

50/50 and Loona weren't that successful domestically, they only had a lot of international fans and online fans who weren't buying albums. Fifty Fifty only sold around 45,000 albums while the biggest girl groups in Korea were selling 4 million albums per year. Same with Loona, poor management and lack of success made them flop. Most people in Korea aren't familiar with Loona apart from fans and younger people

[@_aPaladin]

I don't think the strategy is that crazy. It's more insidious in the west. In the west it's a pay to play model, gate keepers, get to charge insane amount of money, the more you pay the more plays you get, the more plays you get the more people buy music. That's why you only see certain people always at the top. I mean both are pretty sleezy...

[@realshompa]

Still fun how Idol groups like Nogizaka46 on a downturn sell about 3.5 million "singles" per year.

[@samsousayt]

Would be interesting an analysis on Morning Musume , just before AKB48 they where in the same kind of massive popularity.

[@natebroadus8474]

Honestly, I think they just grew up. The 1st generation girls graduated and nobody near their level stepped up to replace them, on the whole. You had some singular girls that stepped up like Rino Sashihara, but nobody else was on that level again. Realistically, a half dozen girls could have taken that center spot in the early days. They were that stacked with talent and appeal.

[@ShiruSama1]

Kpop girl groups looked seiso too in that time, at least more than half of them. Of course there was the 2ne1 counterpart too (and that's blackpink today, the girl crush concept) but see SNSD.

[@YourJapanic]

As much as I love the 48G groups, it’s definitely time for their throne to be given to new modern rising-to-fame groups such as Fruits Zipper, Takane no Nadeshiko, and =LOVE

[@wymbumbum8110]

I think kne of the main reason is that, the newer members aren't that interesting anymire compared to the first generation members. OG kami 7 members in addition of other members from their sister groups like Jurina, Rena, Sayanee, Sakura etc. made a hige impact back then because these girls are popular and fans love them so much because of their personalities. Example: OG kami 7 are all amazing and have their own charms. And all 7 of them are super popular. Compared today, new gen member tried hard, but they were just overshadowed by other idols who are more interesting.

[@melodramatic7904]

I don't think the creator of AKB48 invented this model of young, untrained girls acting childlike on stage. He was copying the model created by Tsunku the creator of Morning Musume and founder of Hello! Project. However, Morning Musume started to shift away from the young, untrained girl singing badly and acting childlike model right as AKB48 was coming up. So there was this sort of seemless transition. Morning Musume's popularity took a nosedive and AKB48 took over. What really helped AKB48 took over was the hand holding sessions that you mention. I think their motto was "idols you can meet." Not even MM did that.

[@iAmEhead]

The hand holding sessions are definitely weird (from my perspective). It's interesting the connection you make between how a woman dresses and the psychology of the person who is attracted to them. I've never been attracted to what I call "glamour" or "fancy" ladies, who dress like the K-Pop singers you showed at the beginning. I figure women who dress like that are only interested in attracting ambitious men with a strong drive to make money and engage in conspicuous consumption. Now, the AKB48 members may be too young, but I can definitely appreciate the appeal of the girl next door look. Having no inclination to be a career climbing capitalist conspicuous consumer, I find that type much more approachable. Now... I think it's great there are independent, career climbing women out there, and it's great if they are trying to attract ambitious, rich, and stylish boyfriends or husbands. No judgements from me. I respect them by staying away.

[@Lunarchords]

Well, I'm not really interested with idol groups(Jpop/Kpop) mainly when it comes to music. I mean my preference for music will be like Wagakki band, Jam Project, Hyde, Ado, Ryokuoushoku Shakai, Sawano Hiroyuki, Eir Aoi, Aimer, Milet, Lisa(Jpop), Luck Life and many others. I do listen to Dreamcatcher(Kpop) though and that's again because I like their music. So yeah, Jpop has great music, it's just not in the form of an idol group. (Recommend Sonnet, So Hyang, Hynn, Kim Na Young, Guckkasten, or just watch King of Mask Singer if you want to explore non idol group Kpop music.)

[@ludwigneigl891]

Sakura is one of the most talented idols in many terms. but vocaly she is one of the weaker members in lesserafim. and the vocals of lesserafim are below the average of kpop groups. luckily for japan idols, recently korea also seems to put less attention to vocals and more to appearance and performance.

[@Smoses_senpai]

Idols dating is unfortunately still very taboo in Kpop as well. Which is really dumb

[@unisangalaxystudio]

AKB was like the once mighty Roman Empire why - Music was huge 2009 - 2018 - AKB48 37th Single Senbatsu Sousenkyo when Mayu won - café and merch Downfall - Minegishi Minami - Assault of Maho Yamaguchi - Crusade of Rina Kawaei, and Anna Iriyama or the great AKB stabing of 2014 - last Senbatsu Election of 2018 - closer of the AKB48 café Now - Rise of Hololive Production - Hatsune Miku - Kpop - Rise of the west pushing there music to Japan best claim to the title of AKB successor - Nogizaka46 - BNK48 * they still do Senbatsu Election, they just had one few days ago - =LOVE - Chuning Candy *Sugar Sugar Sweet was a great song to the point it felt so AKB and nice but disbanded on March 31, 2022

[@hannah60000]

Some of your “now” points aren’t really new phenomenon, particularly pushing music from the “west” in Japan.

[@thehanabata]

The most iconic election for me was the 3rd one, in 2011. That's when they were really at their peak. AKB was inescapable in 2011, especially when Maeda Atsuko was still around. Everyone was really looking forward to the battle between Maeda Atsuko and Oshima Yuko. The impact of that election was so insane in Japan, that even if you came to Japan in 2011 (and had no idea about what AKB48 even is), you'd know about them in less than a day of landing in Japan. One of the first things I heard in 2011 when I landed in Japan was "Maeda Atsuko won!", and I didn't even have a clue who she was or what that meant😂

[@Jokervision744]

I was ridiculously reminded of hard rock hallelujah.

[@kanadetenshi4311]

That comment about Le Sserafim did not age well 😅

[@user-ml6hq2ci2j]

Im agree, Its their downfall right now

[@DestinyZX1]

And I love le Sserafim thanks to that overwatch crossover collab

[@bb4251]

They took a dip in sales, but their recent album still sold 3x as much as AKB48's and Nogizakas latest CD