The Training Flight That Turned Deadly | The Crash Of Delta Airlines Flight 9877

[@KVirello]

Literally the day after I watched this I went out for a walk and ended up having to land a DC-8 with 2 engines out. Thank god I watched this video when I did!

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Phew what a coincidence eh?

[@Democracyyy]

@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation on a simulator

[@jaik195701]

In 1970 my dad was a passenger on a DC 8 that hit a dock of geese, disabling all the flight crew .. he landed the plane even though he flew Boeing 727 jets normally

[@grmpEqweer]

@@jaik195701 Hitting that dock must have really knocked over the flight crew. They shouldn't have been buzzing the shoreline.😳

[@yettobseen]

@@jaik195701 I hit a dock once, actually twice only killing my pony in a rush to pick up mom

[@Rems61]

My Dad worked for Delta at MSY when this happened. The deaths on the ground were due to the plane crashing into the Airport Hilton that was located just across the highway from the runway. The way he told the story was that the instructor was purposely trying to TEST the trainee to see his reactions. My Dad was not in Flight ops, but that was the story that was going around the company at the time.

[@Zekrom569]

Well, still they should have took control when things gone terribly wrong, so at least they could have a chance to recover and survive, if this was the case

[@geraldevans2535]

My dad was a Delta mechanic at MSY at that time. He heard the crash from our house approx a mile away and was at the crash scene within a few minutes. Knew the crew as well. The story circulating soon after was that the instructor put the pilot in a position that no crew has ever been in before.

[@sambecker23]

I don't know about you guys, but I literally have to land a DC-8 with 2 engines out every day. So glad I know the proper procedure now.

[@otterspocket2826]

You need to have a word with whoever does your maintenance. My mate Dave from Carphone Warehouse does mine, and I rarely lose even one engine on my DC-8. I regularly go a whole month without losing two. He's also a dab hand with a trowel, if you need any plastering done.

[@TheAllMightyGodofCod]

Wait, we are supposed to use ALL 4?! I just use 2 and save fuel and leave the other 2 as spare ones, in case something goes wrong. I do have great mileage out of my DC-8, usually 3 mile per gallon of diesel which is better than my ATV

[@noralynn6318]

@@otterspocket2826 a whole month is pretty good.

[@noralynn6318]

@@TheAllMightyGodofCod next time you go up make sure you take a couple of gas cans just in case you decide to use all 4.

[@vernonsmithee792]

Using all the powerplants on a four engined aircraft is very overrated.

[@jimmywrangles]

Excellent, I've often been in situations where i said to myself "sucks that I don't know how to fly a DC8 with engines out". Now I'm good. :)

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Glad I could help 😂

[@thedie-castaviator4081]

The DC-8 is such a good looking aircraft. Love the vintage footage. RIP to all involved in this accident.

[@Kevin_747]

When I got my DC-8 type rating most simulators were not certified for full motion t/o and landings. I had to demonstrate three t/o's and landings in the airplane. One approach two engines were reduced to flight idle with a landing to full stop. It was manageable but quite a handful. Your continuous loop of the MGM Grand 62's at LAX brings back memories. I flew 801,802 and 803MG quite a bit. Nice airplanes and unusual for DC-8's as they had APU's.

[@mikeup7517]

Really really impressed with your breakdowns and narrations! I'm an aviation geek and I will watch as much as you post...thanks for sharing!!

[@catjudo1]

My grandfather worked for Delta after three years at TWA and spending The War flying bombers to the UK before and during America's involvement. He remembered the DC-8 as an easy and pleasant airliner to fly, though he never had anything go wrong in an airliner. He said that they were sleek and fast, but also said that he really preferred the Convair 880's Delta had more. I could kick myself for not thinking to write down his tales of flight, for he had some really neat stuff in that noggin of his. I miss him, a lot.

[@tomb4568]

Mom worked for DL and way back when I rode many DC-8 and CV-880 flights! I wonder if your grandfather was driving any of my flights?

[@catjudo1]

Tom B My grandfather was Capt. Jerry Crockett. Retired in 1980 and went to the reunions for the next 30 odd years, lol. If your mom is still with us you can ask. I’d love to know!

[@tomb4568]

@@catjudo1 Mom has been gone for some time sadly she loved Delta and worked 30+ years various assignments. Your grandfathers name rings a vague bell with me but I wouldn't know where to go for any further info? Mom worked a handful of different jobs and maybe came across Jerry while working in station ops at CVG mid to late 60's?

[@catjudo1]

Tom B It’s possible they met. He was outgoing and friendly, the type who would chat with anyone. Their paths could well have crossed at some point. Neat to think about.

[@tomb4568]

@@catjudo1 It's a small family really! I spent a fair amount of time hanging around ops back then no-one seemed to mind and it was the best after school thing to do I could ever do! Good on your grandfather he sounds like a great guy!

[@frederickwhite6416]

When I 1st got to the regional world in the EMB 120 we did the majority of the training between 2300 and 0500 in the AC. As you pointed out fatigue is always a drag. On paper you get 8 hours. But you have to put the AC to bed wait for the hotel van to show up, in bad wx. It's always going to take longer. Check in, get to your room, clean up get out of your monkey suit, grab a meal, chit chat go to your room try and grab some sleep. I'm a rotten sleeper to begin with so being in a different hotel and bed every night didn't help.Sometimes we didn't bother sleeping because we would have been to beat to get up. So we slept during the flight. Eventually something would wake you up. That's flying. Great job. I enjoy your videos because you read everything. I don't have to be looking at my phone trying to read tiny paragraphs in a color that matches the background and can't be seen at all. I can listen leaving my hands and eyes free to do other things like fly.

[@eddiegardner8232]

Yeah, the narration beats the Flight Channel videos all to hell. I never liked watching foreign language subtitled movies either. When they have audio from the CVR merged in, it’s the best.

[@surferdude4487]

The instructor added flaps without bothering to tell the captain? Maybe that was critical information that he needed to know.

[@rickyjanzen6684]

Thank goodness we have simulators now, but who ever thought it was a good idea to simulate massive engine loss at low altitude with a trainee crew?

[@BillPalmer]

It was the only way to train and check the maneuver at the time

[@DrHarryT]

@@BillPalmer You could do the exact same thing using a "Soft Deck" @FL 100 or higher.

[@scottl.1568]

That's just what was done back in the day...

[@jenniferyearout7681]

@@DrHarryT how do you practice getting the plane on the ground though?

[@HEDGE1011]

For one thing, it was required by the FAA prior to the advent of suitable simulators. There are multiple accidents involving trainers: I’ve done some in my earlier career, and they are definitely hazardous compared to line operations.

[@tomperkins5657]

Whew! Just last week that very thing happened to me on the DC Beltway! Saved my life and the lives of many others.

[@fdllicks]

3 hours of real sleep??? Then test you with a 2 engine failure landing in an airport surrounded by hotels. What could go wrong? Awesome video btw!!!!

[@DowntownDeuce2]

Thank you for publishing a little known piece of New Orleans history.

[@nicholasjohnson6724]

RAAF did the same thing with a Beoing 707 in the 90's, simulated two engines out on one side and crashed at Sale in Victoria Australia. IT'S not an ordinary test when youre flying for real.

[@asparagus3337]

"if you ever find yourself in this position, now you know what to do" righto 👌👌🤣🤣🤣

[@CV_CA]

5:30 That is so true, I am playing with FS2020, they simulate that effect very well. When the flaps are all down, need some more power otherwise drops like crazy.

[@capchemist]

Thanks for sharing. If I have to land a DC-8 with two engines out, I now know what to do.

[@catjudo1]

So will I. I will holler back that I need a pilot!

[@blameyourself4489]

I think the first thing you need to do, is to invent a time machine :-))

[@Juiceboxdan72]

@@blameyourself4489 haha baby steps, baby steps

[@oxcart4172]

NASA still have one ,(As far as I know!).

[@martinlintzgy1361]

I really like you clear commentary style, the scripting and appreciate the research that goes into these videos.

[@patmx5]

Sounds like a Vmc roll - the asymmetric thrust was too much for the rudder to overcome at the reduced speed, causing the plane to yaw into the dead engines and stall the inside wing. Recoverable with enough altitude, but deadly when it happens that close to the ground.

[@ekweseman]

It's unfortunate that the airline industry had to learn the hard way about the dos and don'ts in operating aircraft in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s such as pilot fatigue. It's also sad that many people had to die so that other lives can be saved.

[@WayneHermanproject]

I learn and discover much from these great educational videos about flying airliners. I have Lockheed Martin's Prepar3D v4 Flight Simulator/Trainer installed on my PC, and have been Flying and learning as I go along. Before this - in the last 15 years Microsoft FSX - X. Most if not all your great videos are cover landing mishaps that have cost hundreds of lives. From this video, I have learned: The Four Procedure legs for landing, Flap settings, Speed requirements. Thank you.

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Thank you so much! Well flap speeds and flap settings vary from airplane to airplane this was for the DC-8, happy simming!

[@WayneHermanproject]

@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation When I use Honeywell's Bendix FMC CUD, I've noticed that in some airplanes, the Flight computer will auto set flaps, and it overrides my settings. I crashed at the threshold of 5 runways on landing before I realized the FMC was involved: My setting was 10, but the FMC set the flaps at 30, and when I manually set the.... well I think you get what I'm sayin'. I had discovered all this when I cameraed over to a wing view of an Airbus 330, and I saw the slats and flaps go full. I wasn't doing anything. Then the airplane floated over the ILS equipment and STALLED - Still on autopilot.

[@jmwSeattle]

Instructor pilot had no right to add control inputs. Excellent report.

[@shariys1]

Instructor pilot was a freaking idiot. Did he think the trainee could read his mind?

[@winstonchurchill3597]

Exactly - the instructor caused this accident. The training pilot was probably stable at his current power setting and then the instructor quietly slips in flaps causing more drag and that's when the wheels came off. Damn shame. Weird thing was my dad was supposed to be on that flight and did a last minute swap. I remember my mom and grandpa thinking he was on that flight when all of the sudden he came walking through the door. Must of thought they saw a ghost.

[@jmwSeattle]

Yes shariys1 As someone says, “Even doctors trip going up stairs,” Pilots get complacent, but airline pilots are very good considering the millions of flights they make without a fatality. We have a better chance winning the lottery than being on that one outlier flight, All these accident reports help the pilots get better, just as police investigators get better from lessons learned. This fellow makes excellent reports and uses interesting turns of phrase I like. I’m a new fan. It’s probably a lot of work, The B-roll video of planes are interesting.

[@jmwSeattle]

Wow Winston Churchill Watch this video about commercial pilots making the same mistake kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZPYZ4tmnbiheLs

[@maddiethesmall]

My grandpa was one of the pilots on the flight. Never got to meet him. Thanks for the report! The loss of life is felt to this day.

[@noka79]

Just found the channel this week. Love it and the content.. real good and interesting

[@johnpollard4158]

9 of the dead were high-school girls on a senior trip. They were heading out in the morning to the Mississippi coast.

[@zzrsteve7934]

FYI, Delta hasn't done training flights in actual airplanes in years and years. We did when I was first became a first officer in 1992 but haven't in like, forever. All done in simulators now. New guy has his first operational flight on the line with a "line check airman". No emergency stuff practiced on the line, only in the sim.

[@ronniewall1481]

NICE SHOW

[@OfflineSetup]

If only I had watched this last week when I actually had to land a DC-8 with two engines. I would have made a much better job (thoughts and prayers to the families).

[@timazzara9030]

Reminds me of united 826. It had a midair collision and lost one engine. Then slowly lost speed, altitude and crashes. Wonder why they didn't power up?

[@smartingamerica]

Now that was a most excellent and clear presentation of an aviation incident! It was a refreshing pleasure to listen while watching the stock plane footage and the supplied diagram without cringing to the point of breaking my teeth while encountering infuriatingly somber musical passages, as typically supplied by several popular flight-sim channels that pretend to offer an appropriate psychological mood. The result of their stylish efforts (including much idiotic speculation in the simulated 'recreations') provide nothing but distraction and make me sick. Here its done right - by FOCUSING ON THE SUBJECT and accurately presenting the factual details...and providing comprehensive notes on the incident as well Thank you Ryan Bomar. Happy to subscribe.

[@MLCHRL]

3:31 that relaxing dude drinking a 7up while driving made me laugh xD

[@vipleather]

The video was made in the 80s. That Hilton hotel was built for the LA Olympics in 1984. I know because I worked for construction company at that time.

[@rabh9338]

Thanks for the great work again! Also it would be great if you could cover Airblue 202

[@guywholikesplanes]

From the few things that I know about flying multi-engine, the critical rule is to NEVER turn towards the dead engine(s). If my left engine(s) are down, I'd do my approach using only right hand turns.

[@las10plagas]

thanks for explaining/showing the diagram (for) upwind and downwind! I always hear these words and never understand what they mean (and I am, of course, too lazy to google) =)

[@nonnobissolum]

Sorry, couldn't help but smile at about 3:31...."they see me rollin', they hatin', try'na catch me ridin' dirty...." Cheers. Great channel.

[@eyetrapper]

Great work my friend!

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Thanks for the love!

[@gothicalpha]

3:31 yea employee of the month is nice but its 5 o clock somewhere!

[@james94582]

That was definitely a failure on the instructor captain (many failures)... But I'm sorry at the point the trainee powered up, he clearly felt uncomfortable about the situation... I'd have said the heck with this and powered them all up and then regrouped and attempted again after figuring out what went wrong in the simulation...

[@LucaTurilli89]

It takes time to power on the engines and get torgue. Probably wouldn't help much but I find it strange they didn't fix the banking angle...

[@Milesco]

@@LucaTurilli89 Still, better to power up the engines than not to do so at all. Even a delayed throttle response is better than none at all. But I agree that it seems strange that they weren't able to correct the bank angle with appropriate aileron inputs. I wish this video had addressed that question.

[@archerjohnson7910]

Perhaps some of the blame lies with the airline for allowing a training pilot to overextend himself. I thought that airlines monitored their pilots, especially training pilots.

[@George_M_]

Jesus. This reminds me of the (iirc) 15,000 men and women who died in flight training in WW2.

[@jacobkaplan-davis5150]

I love your videos great job! I notice that sometimes your English grammar/phrases are incorrect, if you'd like, I'd be more than happy to proofread your scripts!

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Thanks for your kind words and now I’ve started paying more attention to my scripts :)

[@SergeantExtreme]

German Pilot: Just to inform you, we are flying on only one engine. ATC: So you're declaring an emergency? German Pilot: No, we are not declaring an emergency.

[@jasondesselles9168]

My father was a Delta employee and was on shift when this happened back in 1967. He has some horrible memories from this incident.

[@dx1450]

I"ve often wondered... what are the two air intakes on the nose of the DC-8 for?

[@timazzara9030]

Pitot tubes?

[@tomservo56954]

Nine of the dead on the ground were high school students from a small Wisconsin town, on a spring vacation trip.

[@piedpiper1172]

Should have stayed in school

[@BrettonFerguson]

Why were they spending their vacation on a training flight?

[@tomservo56954]

@@BrettonFerguson They were in the hotel

[@Sashazur]

@@tomservo56954 Why were they on vacation at an airport hotel? The only reason to stay in an airport hotel is if you have an early or late flight.

[@tomservo56954]

@@Sashazur Cost, availability...

[@howward4071]

Can the flaps be deployed separately from each other? More flap on the left side of the plane with idle engines to counter act the added thrust to the right side?

[@thebigmacd]

No

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

Asymmetric flaps, you could be onto something there....

[@skylined5534]

That's crazy that you can't!

[@R2Bl3nd]

Your storytelling is really good, you really put me in the situation. I'm wondering though, what should the pilot have done? Applied power earlier than he did I guess?

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Thank you so much! We can only speculate TBH but yeah applying more power would have eased the situation a bit

[@VinayPai]

I'm not a pilot, but here is my understanding of the situation. Pilots are always supposed to be scanning their instruments, so even without being aware of the flap extension by the instructor, the pilot flying should have been aware of the dropping airspeed long before it go so dangerously low. You must be aware of the planes attitude, airspeed, and vertical speed at all times. The solution to add more power as they did, but it had to be done gradually with rudder inputs to compensate for the asymmetry. I suspect the pilots panicked when they realized they were approaching stall speed and added power too quickly.

[@R2Bl3nd]

@@VinayPai thanks so much for your explanation

[@asteverino8569]

Thanks Bud. I am not really into aviation, except for interesting KZbin aviation channels. Well, I am curious and love the whole wonder of flight. Anyway, thanks, I like your style, purpose and narration.

[@janickgoudeau6126]

Any Stories of DC-8 are always welcome at our home! Our personal favorite airplane, Nice to know that Nasa and a few South American freight companies still fly them occasionly. Always enjoy an airplane that uses an external APU. I have that article somewhere from the Las Vegas hotel that ran the DC-8 service. The photographs from inside are quite amazing they may be available on Google images. Nice job on capturing it in action on the runway. Interesting story is so sad though, What a comedy of errors..

[@janickgoudeau6126]

Were both engines completely taken offline, standard procedure on the 747 400 nowadays, Realizing this is DC-8, at least is just, to spool them down, say about halfways down etc. Not trying to teach anyone how to boil eggs but this is a bit strange. What's the expression, The airline safety code is written in blood.. This reminds me of the first British hawker siddeley Trident accident, In terms of not in a training run, but in cockpit crew management.

[@MultiIdiocracy]

Why didn't the pilots 'just' apply thrust to the two idle engines (using all four engines) when it got to the point where this simulation started to become dangerous? I realize the crew was confident that this simulation could be performed easily and safely. This accident reminds me of another accident where a thrust reverser indication light had came on during flight. The aircraft manual stated that the aircraft was safe to fly with one thrust reverser deployed. So the pilots continued flying and some time later the thrust reverser deployed and it became an accident.

[@deonegrizzle5581]

I have just finished my pilots training...I'm free to fly anywhere !!!!!!

[@erictaylor5462]

Where do you get all these videos of old planes, that actually look pretty good. I'm betting you were not even alive when these planes were still in service.

[@viperdriver82]

Did they attempt to recover by pushing up engines 1 and 2 ? ...that would have been my 1st instinct

[@MendTheWorld]

I believe he said they were shut down... They would take a while to spin up, even if they could start them.

[@viperdriver82]

@@MendTheWorld I heard them say they were at idle.

[@MendTheWorld]

viperdriver82 Actually, at 4:25 he says “another engine was taken offline to simulate a double engine failure”. But at 6:27 he says, “Engines 1 & 2 on the left wing were completely idle”. I had assumed from the first statement that meant shut down, but your understanding would make more sense. In either case, there was no time to respond, as with the flap setting of 25 they were in an impossible situation.

[@MendTheWorld]

I’m NOT a pilot, so I’m out of my expertise, but I found this, which is relevant. He would have needed at least 8 seconds, which he didn’t have. www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/media/17_afh_ch15.pdf “Efficiency in a jet engine is highest at high rpm where the compressor is working closest to its optimum conditions. At low rpm, the operating cycle is generally inefficient. If the engine is operating at normal approach rpm and there is a sudden requirement for increased thrust, the jet engine responds immediately and full thrust can be achieved in about 2 seconds. However, at a low rpm, sudden full- power application tends to over fuel the engine resulting in possible compressor surge, excessive turbine temperatures, compressor stall and/or flameout. To prevent this, various limiters, such as compressor bleed valves, are contained in the system and serve to restrict the engine until it is at an rpm at which it can respond to a rapid acceleration demand without distress. This critical rpm is most noticeable when the engine is at idle rpm, and the thrust lever is rapidly advanced to a high-power position. Engine acceleration is initially very slow, but can change to very fast after about 78 percent rpm is reached. [Figure 15-7] Even though engine acceleration is nearly instantaneous after about 78 percent rpm, total time to accelerate from idle rpm to full power may take as much as 8 seconds. For this reason, most jets are operated at a relatively high rpm during the final approach to landing or at any other time that immediate power may be needed.”

[@stephenbond3348]

They would never cut fuel to the engines on a practice flight. Don't forget at flight idle the spool up time required. On the JT-8 which was on the B-727 for example, the time from flight idle to MAX EPR was twelve seconds! That's an eternity if you are at a high sink rate with 30° flaps and gear out. That's why the FAA mandated the 40° flap position be blocked from use. Too many accidents early on with high sink rates and engines unspooled. My old girlfriend's father was a captain on a UAL 727-200...he referred to it as the "Formaldehyde glide." He always set up a new first officer with flight idle, 40° flaps to show him/her the dangers of the combo of high sink rate and unspooled approach. Think of realizing you are sinking at 4,000 FPM and close to the ground and engines at idle...now push the throttles all the way up and count to twelve! A good number of new pilots were impacting the ground short of the runway before they made it to twelve.

[@nicholasjohnson6724]

I loved the DC-8 but the DC-9 was the sports car of the skies !!!!!

[@larryturner6859]

Hats off to these brave souls

[@havoc23]

check out the guy enjoying his soda at 3:32min :D

[@robertforster8984]

What do simulators have to do with the moon landings?

[@davidjames666]

lot’s of advancements in aviation and many other things came out of NASA and specifically the moon landing. simulators was one of them. so many many more

[@scottcol23]

Good thing they do all this in a simulator these days. But in the 60's that was not a thing.

[@JimDean002]

Oddly enough the DC8 that I'm flying right now just lost two engines. I am so glad I was paying attention just now but what was that bank angle again?

[@TheLastPhoen1x]

"If you ever find yourself in this situation you know what to do" Yea, if I find myself on the plane that is no longer used for passenger flights, with both pilots incapacitated and 2 of 4 engines out, I now know how to land it and surely will be able to do it without any training on the first try.

[@skylined5534]

So many comments like yours here. I hope none of you quit your day jobs to head into a failed world of stand up routines.

[@chodeoriki4113]

God damn this comment section is gold. Love it.

[@billrundell2097]

Why would the trainer be allowed to fly when he was drastically sleep impaired? Are there not regulations that mandate sleep time?

[@tomhughlett860]

If one drops below Vmc, the only solution is lower the nose to gain speed. I've received multi engine training and we always did engine out practice at altitude. Worked ok on a Cessna 310. On a Piper Aztec, it stalled before Vmc was reached. Two main errors: 1) extending flaps with no callout 2) failure to maintain adequate airspeed To salvage the situation they should have powered up the engines running at idle. But as low as they were, might not have spooled up fast enough. Good argument for doing engine out training at "imaginary" runway about 3000+ feet above ground. Thankfully simulators have gotten much better since the 60s.

[@jeffreywalker2175]

Church @ 7am ...breakfast @ 930 am ...Then @ noon I am out to the airport to cripple a perfectly running DC 8 before we land ....thanks for the lesson my man 👍👌 ! Tomm @ noon we are playing Russian roulette see you then get some rest

[@RoadCone411]

The More You Know....! Thanks NBC.

[@andyharpist2938]

Who would 'pretend' to lose two engines at 1000'? Margin of error zero. Potential for disaster considerable.

[@andyharpist2938]

@@jiyushugi1085 We are surrounded by lunatics Jiyu !

[@joshuahudson2170]

What amazed me wasn't loss of 2 engines, but 2 engines on the same side and the rudder caution. Bad bad.

[@SillyPuddy2012]

And after dark as well. I have to wonder if they were really following company training policy. Banking left at low altitude with engines 1 & 2 out, or at idle.

[@frogsgottalent1106]

So, the the " instructor " murdered nineteen people....

[@Tindometari]

"Are you rated for this craft?" "No, but I binged Mini Air Crash Investigations last night."

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Fair enough cleared to takeoff I guess

[@MichaelKing4023]

I remember that crash I was living in New Orleans when it happened and watched the new and see everything was destroyed when it crashed. The most were from the hotel and the end of the runway.

[@Boeing--hd3xd]

Nice Video! Can you look into doing Aeroflot 1492 or Egyptair 804?

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Aeroflot 1492 Is still being investigated lets hope the report is in English

[@Boeing--hd3xd]

@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation maybe...

[@eutambem9756]

Dude, you really should be working together with the FlightChannel guy. He's got nice graohics but no voice-over, while your audio is really worth listening to. Together you should kick a**!

[@gobbledygoook]

Indeed!!! I can never watch his videos because I lack a voice but together with his animations, it would be perfect!

[@djs2006]

Why stop at adding additional drag (flaps)? Why not add a simulated stroke causing blindness to the trainee while his mother-in-law is on the radio telling him how disappointed she is with him?

[@skylined5534]

I mean yes, that'd totally be a thing 🙄

[@michaelosgood9876]

Love the Grand Air DC 8 62

[@USALegendary_E5]

Please turn up your audio. Excellent work

[@trustnuffin9121]

I don't like all the jovial & sarcastic comments here. I fully respect the professionalism of the Pilots and instructors in this case and know that human error will always play it's part. Rest In Peace all that perished in this tragedy X

[@skylined5534]

From the other youtubers? It's a thing now, it's like an edgelord convention.

[@capt744]

Since the engine failures were SIMULATED, I don’t understand why the “dead” engines were not pushed up if you think you are going to die!? I have flown numerous models of the DC-8 and I have actually practiced 2-engine failures in a real DC-8 in 1979. There is no recovery with 2 engines out on the same side below 600 feet AGL as you have to accelerate the aircraft all the way down to zero feet to gain enough rudder authority to go-around. Guess we learned from their mistakes! 🤓

[@gregculverwell]

Those old engines were very slow to respond - maybe there was not enough time?

[@jamesordwayultralightpilot]

It seems like someone was too focused on creating a problem and not gaining sufficient altitude to recreate this issue and safely recover. This was like forcing muscle memory when that's not how it works. Muscle memory comes from repetition in a safe environment. How was this a training exercise when the consequence for failure was death? This is how I imagine the Russians teach pilots....with a gun to their head. LoL

[@cebunting]

Exactly after the plane dropped below vmc he should have brought 1 and 2 back online , but that would have meant a failed check ride

[@mro-aviation]

Well you're a full decade later and this was still pretty new Era of jets, so I'm thinking lessons had yet to be learned.

[@cebunting]

@@mro-aviation a prop plane would have done the same thing

[@mangos2888]

I wonder what airport this is in the video shots .... oh jk it was probably LAS with that MGM logo on the plane....

[@milantrcka121]

LAX (the restaurant arches that are no longer visible due to double deck roadways, etc)

[@gerardmoran9560]

As an instructor you never let your student get you into a hole you can't get out of. Letting the student get beyond his capabilities can be instructive but normally should be avoided. I think you need to check your WX data- 600' of visibility isn't "not that bad", it would require an autoland and not be suitable for engine out training. In fact if the visibility were that low the tower wouldn't have seen them on base leg or even on the runway.

[@eddiegardner8232]

Why one of the two guys at the controls didn’t think “this ride is going south fast” and firewall the #1 and #2 engine throttles is a mystery. Maybe they would have spooled up in time to stop the roll and spiral, and yeah, you blow the check ride, but you all live to fight another day.

[@musicmanfelipe]

Another good one would be Delta 9570, another training flight that went wrong. This ended up bringing wake turbulence and "heavy" aircraft to the forefront.

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Yep that ones already on my channel :)

[@Restless_Hermit80]

03:30 Cheers mate! xP

[@seanmckinnon4612]

How do things go from “bad to worse” when you say they “looked like every other plane on the path for runway 01”?

[@alex2143]

maybe the controller is just a perfectionist and thinks every other plane already looks bad?

[@fernandolacerda3f]

Hear that voice pinch on 2:39 ha ha ha

[@mikestone9129]

I can see a lot of bad decisions and mistakes on both pilots. But I won't judge another pilot's actions without knowing all the facts. Hind sight is always 20/20, sort of. I find it hard to believe the left seat pilot didn't see the instructor lower more flaps. At this stage of the approach he had to have seen the instructor's actions.

[@davidwarner7666]

How can it be. Dc8 in 1957 ? dC8 did not entry service until 1960

[@sureshmukhi2316]

1967. Watch again.

[@SSZaris]

3:32 - me watching this video

[@deansmith4549]

Smh, what a waste of everything, unnecessarily. I'm an A&P mechanic and I've actually worked on the air raft shown in this video a couple of times. 801 and 802

[@zew1414]

Well thank god for simulators 👍

[@TheMattc999]

You know? I really wish I knew how to land a dc-8 with 2 engines out, but I can't seem to find that information anywhere. Oh well, I guess I'll just watch this video on crash investigations instead. Edit- Holy shit, out of all of the searching I've been doing online, at the library even, and this video of all sources taught me how to land a dc-8 with 2 engines out, I'll be damned. Awesome. You never know when that knowledge will come in handy 😋 👍

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Glad I Could Help Lol

[@Derry_Aire]

Unfortunately the DC8 I ended up having to fly didn't have any engines out, so this video was useless to me. :(

[@davidfarmer2788]

How about an ils 2 eng. Out appr. Ty technology

[@gingermegs138]

Tally Ho On two engines and a prayer downside its a DC8 what could go wrong.

[@oxcart4172]

The good old days when u had a chance of staying alive when 2 engines failed

[@Deveraux123456]

Why did the trainer and the trainee have the same level of skill????

[@entothechesnautknight1762]

I have to say, I was not expecting this many actual pilots in the comments. I dont know why I wasnt, but I wasnt.

[@atallguynh]

They didn't simulate two engines out, they actually did it!

[@gil123bonsai]

I understood that they pulled the throttles back to idle and not fuel cutoff. Engine shutdown in flight is not authorized unless an actual failure occurs. Or, did I miss something?

[@atallguynh]

@@gil123bonsai Nothing missed, just us quibbling a bit about the definition of "simulate". I guess my point is that in my book I'd say it's much more than just a simulation (in the modern sense) if anything that goes awry is likely to cause everyone to die.

[@m4rs12]

Imagine all the lives saved after the invention of flight simulators!

[@wonttell4873]

Actually the engines were at idle. Question is as soon as they realized something was wrong why did they not spool up the idled engines. You know, so you can try again.

[@otterspocket2826]

@@gil123bonsai - You didn't miss something, it is a requirement to keep a 'failed' engine running at idle so that it can be powered up at the first sign of trouble - which in this case was the airspeed dropping for (from the pilot flying's perspective) no apparent reason. My guess would be that he was too overloaded to respond promptly as the bank angle developed, still trying to figure out why the airspeed dropped and what action he needed to take beyond the 'quick fix' of adding power (and asymmetric thrust).

[@idolhanz9842]

They didnt shut down any of the engines to simulate engine out did they? Piss poor crew coordination, flight team leadership,

[@markbailey6051]

Thumb up if you believe Armstrong walked on the moon. Thumb down if you do not.