The Trans IT Crowd Episode

[@LilySimpson]

Somehow in the process of fixing the video from copyright issues it has now got demonitized, when it wasnt beforehand. So idk what to do here. I am tired and sick and I hope that you enjoy the video.

[@ThrowingCrunchy]

Rest up and feel better! Your work is super appreciated, and your well being appreciated more!

[@lethaldream50]

hi lily, could you enable automatic CC on your videos? i'm not sure if all of them are missing subs or just this one but even if autogenerated CC is not accurate it still helps with accessibility issues

[@latenightlogic]

Ridiculous rules. If I swear, even with reasonable context, I get banned. I’m glad you just went with it, more of us need to and try find ways to be just be, well, you know, our normal decent selves. Fuck KZbin.

[@LilySimpson]

it should have it generated for it, i am currently in the process of going through all of my videos and putting actual subtitles on them, which is next months plan

[@HuntingViolets]

@@lethaldream50 I've noticed they seem to be missing on demonitized videos, although I'm not sure it's connected or coincidence.

[@sophia-helenemeesdetricht1957]

16:26 - You're right, it's not that bad! That's what makes Graham Linehan such a distressing character in the dramatis personae of the 2020s! Everyone was like "Graham, thank you for writing a sympathetic trans woman, here are a few notes" and he went _ballistic!_

[@beautifulbearinatutu4455]

Pretty much. I was talking about it with a friend and he was apparently known for being incapable of taking criticism for a while, but it wasn't until *this* happened that he got radicalized and managed to ruin his life. I'd feel sad for him if he wasn't such a hateful man.

[@dreye3215]

He just really, REALLY, didn't want to stop treating trans people as objects of disgust.

[@dinosaysrawr]

See also: Dave Chapelle, JK Rowling, Bill Maher, and assorted others whose Silver Age comic book villain arc was sparked by their immense trauma of having had to endure polite feedback and constructive criticism.

[@beautifulbearinatutu4455]

@@dinosaysrawr Let's be fair, Bill Maher was always a dick, the only reason he didn't talk as much about trans people is that at the time they weren't really part of public discourse.

[@eataneraser]

Yeah I wanted to leave this comment- I'm not trans so I was not in a position to speak about it, but viewing it through the lens of harm it could do, I have always felt the episode was not as bad as the man! It's got its off-color aspects, but it seems like the eye of the episode is sympathetic to April and makes its jokes in good humor, rather than to point and laugh. A brain worm really got into the man

[@RaineInChaos]

"His own bigotry ruined one of the best relationships he had ever had with a woman" Life imitates art holy crap

[@helvete_ingres4717]

threats against his family from trans activists did, his 'bigotry' is a weird way to phrase it. Even if his views could be considered bigotry, threatening to harm someone's kids at least *should* not be acceptable

[@numnut154]

​@@helvete_ingres4717 Oh yeah? Did you bother to try and find his ex-wife's reason for splitting up, or do you take self pitying bigots at their word while they're performing their poor me routine?

[@helvete_ingres4717]

@@numnut154 ppl actually say 'oh yeah', or type that? What deos that communicate, exactly? Reminds me of 'scientists say they're less attractive physically, and while we speak in a well-educated manner, they use low-brow expressions like "oh yeah?" and " come here a minute"' - no I didn't find his ex-wife's reasons for leaving, but why is your comment directed at me for saying something reasonable, and not the OP which assumes the reason is his 'bigotry'? The simpler explanation is the better one in lieu of specific info - very natural human instinct to remove oneself and one's offspring from danger. Marriages don't break up because of differing views on trans rights - unless maybe one of the people is trans, pretty sure linehan and his wife are not. Actually Linehan might be one of the only ppl in the world whoseems to care enough (from the other side) that maybe he would have left his wife if she were pro-trans - since you seem to question one's knowledge on the matter, how are you even sure it was she who left him and not the other way round? but yeah, most likely by light-years is she feared for her safety and that of her children b/c of threats of violence from trans activists directed against her husband and by extension his family and children

[@LeftPhilip]

First off, way too long. Second interesting theory but lacking in evidence. Thirdly, yes if someone gets sucked into a cult, be it political or spiritual, that absolutely destroys relationships, it's actually a core mechanic of how cults work: to cut you off from your loved ones

[@karmaplace]

@@LeftPhilip I like the “maybe Graham was the one who left” theory considering all the evidence of Graham crying on main about being dumped. 🤡 The “oh yeah” slander, I can’t. Thank you for your service in responding to that drivel, comrade. 🫡

[@emilyhockers1086]

That trans episode is like very close from being a good episode about someone realizing that transphobia made his life worse. Like, cut off a few jokes and the laugh track, and boom, it's like 10 times better

[@MeonLights]

Agreed. It almost feels similar to the episode where Moe dates a little person. He could have a wonderful relationship with a woman he just clicks with and who loves him while he loves her, but he just can't get over himself enough to work on his own bigotry. In the end both of them are misearble and alone...

[@TulilaSalome]

Also, a viewer can easily see it like that anyway - The boss is a funny character and not meant to be likeable. The actor is just very funny, so are we laughing at his performance or maybe his bigotry? Its not essentially clear we are laughing at a man lining after a trans woman, for that reason.

[@crypt5129]

I always heard people considered it transphobic and every time I would think back to that ending scene where he's crying over having made the wrong choice, entirely forgetting there was a laugh track because I just hadn't noticed it lmao

[@AllG98]

@@MeonLights there is a more recent episode where Moe and Maya get together again (but yes you’re point still stands)

[@MeonLights]

@@AllG98 Awh that is actually nice to learn. I haven't watched The Simpsons in many years but that is neat.

[@RogueCarrot]

The sad thing is the A plot for this episode is classic. Moss and Roy tricking Jen into believing they acquired "the internet" on loan from the Queen so she can give a speech.

[@gaygarfield]

the explanation on how celebrities get criticized once and instead of reflecting they listen to the bigoted cheerleading they get in response is genuinely one of the best ways of explaining that phenomenon i have ever heard. this video rules

[@RedRattt]

I remember watching that episode as a kid and a teenager and I remember thinking April was so awesome. It was Douglas being stupid that ruined the relationship. We stan April

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

April was too good for Douglas

[@TomCantDance]

The weird thing about Graham was that he seemed pretty ok with the first bit of criticism he received from a trans person about that episode. He actually seemed to take it ok. I always think that his terfiness coalesced after he became a bit of a voice for the pro-abortion crowd in Ireland. He was seen as a voice for feminists and I think he liked that moniker enough that, when some of those feminists raised terf talking points, he saw people pushing back against their hate as an attack. He saw it as Gamergate Mark II and quadrupled down. I really liked your comparison between him and Douglas at the end of that episode - distraught because of all the damage he inflicted upon himself. I think it's very apt.

[@sabrinusglaucomys]

Thanks for providing more context to the story of what happened with Graham

[@secretgamergirl6266]

That was exactly it, yeah. I see so many people claiming he snapped from people criticizing this episode (reality, he was personally really self-conscious about it and kept asking every trans woman he knew if we understood the point to be just that Berry's character is a clueless asshole), or getting painfully rejected by the trans woman he was really buttering up in DMs (that was me, and he was actually STILL trying to flirt with me for the first month or two as he rapidly sank into the TERF swamp). But yeah, he got way into feminism and anti-fascist activism around mid-2014, got tricked into defending some TERF publicly half a year later, and then just kept digging in his heels, doubling down, and getting love-bombed until his entire identity became just being the worst person in the world and performatively distancing himself from everyone his new extreme right-wing "friends" want dead. Hell of a thing.

[@TomCantDance]

@secretgamergirl6266 first of all, I'm sorry you had to put up with him flirting with you in your DMs. That's a real ick right there. But I'm glad it wasn't just me seeing this slide into TERFiness as a gradual thing and not a jump after the IT Crowd episode. I'm pretty sure that if he wasn't so steeped in it now, he would completely understand and support trans people. But you're right, the love bombing that TERFs do make it so easy to stay in that idealogical, bigoted trench.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@secretgamergirl6266although anyone can go back and claim they meant anything, it is at least a little validating that the way I originally read it was (at least) his favoured interpretation for a time. By the way, that sounds stressful as hell! Glad you got out of it ok

[@tezzaract365]

It's funny, but when I was younger and less aware of how insidious transphobia could be, I literally thought the episode was pro-trans. So many of Denholm's jokes hinge on him being an out-of-touch rich moron, so I genuinely thought the joke was that he was an idiot for being transphobic. Safe to say I was very disappointed when I revisited it later with more context.

[@TheHermeet]

Have you seen Till Death Do Us Part?

[@myrrysmiasi4866]

I relate to this so hard :P As a kid I was so happy about seeing any queer people on tv that any show would have had to have been super explicitly cruel for me to not see it as celebrating queerness.

[@MacShapow]

The outro punchline is that he could've been happy but f'd it up because of his transphobia (just like Graham lol). It also seemed "obvious" to me at the time transphobia was meant to be an asshole thing, given how much of Douglas is portrayed that way by the show. In retrospect that's too charitable though.

[@stevielambert2552]

Same here!!

[@Peyton-plays-videogames]

is that not the joke

[@worldsbiggestholdthegirlfan]

I’m so glad that Matt Berry denounced Graham, I love him too much

[@Quackervoltz]

He did?

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@Quackervoltz Yes, in an interview relatively recently.

[@Quackervoltz]

@@sacrificiallamb4568 Which one

[@perrisavallon5170]

Chris O'Dowd has also not only denounced Graham, but has also said he thinks it's a good thing people are going back and criticizing the bigotries of these old episodes.

[@karmaplace]

@@Quackervoltz With Vulture (“Matt Berry has a Type”)! KZbin ate my earlier comment, but the short version is that he called the episode “ridiculous and dated” and at the end of the interview brought it up again and said, “I don’t condone anything that that comedy portrayed, you know? I don’t share any views that the writer has.”

[@saladdodger4722]

In my opinion, the worst bits I remember from IT Crowd seemed kind of misogynistic in how they weirdly obsess over periods making them out to be gross and icky or constantly making jokes out of paticular women characters being unattractive. But the main character played by Chris O'Dowd is just consistently one of the most unpleasant pieces of shit you could imagine but unlike other better comedies like It's Always Sunny, I couldn't always tell if I was supposed to symathise with his views/actions or not.

[@beachballssideaccount]

Not excusing his behaviour but I think judging by his "people, what a bunch of b****rds" line, he's deliberately written as antisocial

[@yourdad3275]

i don’t know whether or not we’re meant to sympathise, but he is meant to be a cartoonish dweeb, that much is evident. to me it doesn’t feel like the creators are endorsing his behaviour so much as writing it off, at worst.

[@medes5597]

If you read some of the interviews Graham gave, Graham actually talks about how "nerds and geeks" are some of the worst misogynists yet they get away with it because it's a different kind of misogyny and how he deliberately included elements of that unpleasantness. So it's deliberate. Whether it's done well - I'd argue no, because its not strongly emphasised and it's not obvious that Roy is alone because he's got some hateful views about women for example. But yeah, he was actually aware of it.

[@Tink00]

It will never not be extremely frustrating to me that the most brainwashed people are also the ones most convinced everyone else is brainwashed

[@jc-kj8yc]

It varies from episode to episode. Usually Roy is a pos and the audience is supposed to laugh about his self caused misery. For example when he lies about being disabled in the theater and the situation just keeps escalating against him. But there are episodes where he is at least slightly sympathetic, but his actions are still awful. Wondering about how his girlfriend's parents burned to death at a pool is a legitimate question, but everything he does to solve it is absolutely idiotic. And then there's the rare instance where he didn't do anything wrong and the audience is supposed to root for him. Like when he's stuck under the desk of two female co workers and can't get out, because they'd think he's a pervert. Overall the character is a sexist, insecure and inconsiderate idiot, but there are instances where he's sympathetic, because everyone around him is even worse or because he just had bad luck.

[@TheYopogo]

I really think that in the Father Ted Chinese racism thing, the show does treat the original impression as racism. When Ted does the impression, Father Dougal doesn't laugh at it and just kind of looks confused and concerned. Ted says something like "on come on Dougal, lighten up and learn to take a joke, haha", and at that moment he realises that there's two Chinese people (who are always framed as decent, ordinary, humanised people) looking at him through the window. So Ted is pulled out of his own perspective and suddenly sees himself through their eyes, and immediately realises how offensive what he's just done is and is mortified.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

And the joke that follows where everyone thinks he just turned racist is hilarious

[@gryrabild]

I’ve been thinking about that episode at regular intervals for years and years… It’s just bizarre that despite housing a lot of obvious transphobic concepts, it pretty easily reads as a pro-trans argument, if your brain isn’t simply seeped in the anti-trans poison. The king of transphobia kind of failed at doing transphobia that one time. So strange.

[@dombo813]

Because he probably wasn't really transphobic back then. Before the news turned trans people into their villains, the idea of being trans was to most people just a comedic premise - in their minds, silly, but not evil. When society moved on and decided that acting as if being trans is bizarre isn't acceptable, a lot of those people who just thought it was silly ended up becoming actively transphobic because they didn't feel they were trying to be harmful, so they came to the conclusion that people who would criticise them for it (ie actual trans people) are cruel. It's unfortunately very easy for people to fall into transphobia.

[@theniftycat]

I feel like you hit the nail on the head with theorising how he could get radicalised. He probably genuinely thought he was a truly progressive person and kept doubling down until he broke. I rewatched The IT Crowd this year and sure, the episode wasn't great, but it wasn't awful. I used to love his comedies and I still do, but that's a casualty of progress. I bet there were many "great" men coming out as misogynists 100 years ago etc. It's because they think they are right and were always right, never wanting to face their mistakes. Especially, if they'd been universally celebrated like Graham (his comedies are cult stuff) or Joanne. We're seeing Elon unraveling right now because of that to. Never being said "no" for decades and only being applauded makes you lose touch. It's the same way with dictators.

[@quoth128]

Graham lineham is the kind of rad fem who loves lesbians but is grossed out by gay men (see every one of his damn shows for example)

[@faithpearlgenied-a5517]

In other words, he's turned on by two women together so that's perfectly fine. He isn't turned on by two men together therefore that's not OK. That's a LOT of heterosexual men for you, they're so full of themselves that they base their view of humans' 'worthiness' on whether they're attracted to that type of person or not. Reminds me of how they claim to love women etc yet often treat women they deem unattractive, badly. Some of them only value people they would sleep with. I don't think Linehan is a feminist in ANY sense of the word. He's just a bigot who uses feminism to excuse his transphobia.

[@JDMimeTHEFIRST]

He's not a feminist if he doesn't believe in equality and doesn't think trans women are women. He's more of a misogynist (the opposite of a feminist) for not thinking women and men are equals whio can decide for themselves things about their own bodies. Feminism and body autonomy go hand in hand. He even said "women can't speak about this" . . .yes, we can speak for ourselves, thank you.

[@RaineInChaos]

He also hates women, so his love for lesbians isn't really so much love

[@AmyAberrant]

@@JDMimeTHEFIRST wait til you see how many “rad fems” are in fact misogynists.

[@richiehoyt8487]

​@@JDMimeTHEFIRSTSo we see. You also get to decide who is, and is not, a Feminist, apparently!

[@jamesmoore3879]

In the trans episodes defense, IT crowd didn't actually use a laugh track. Most of the indoor scenes were filmed on a soundstage in front of a live audience, and the outside scenes were filmed, but played for an audience for reaction. So the laughs from the audience weren't the writers telling the viewer "it's funny that this person is trans," there were just some people in the audience who thought being trans was inherently a joke.

[@Matt__B]

It's a bit more complicated than that, as an audience track is rarely spliced in unedited. Rather, they'll turn it down or mute it entirely for the parts where they don't want a reaction, and ramp it up for the parts when they do. As such, although the laughter is natural - as opposed to the generic pre-recorded variety - it's very much in the hands of the editors when it's used in a show like this, so the real answer lies somewhere in the middle.

[@skellious]

​@@Matt__Bthat happens less in the UK.

[@lillybareham1257]

I agree 100%. Going back and watching the episode, I was expecting it to be really transphobic but its really not. Sure, its not the best representation but its better than what was usually going on representation wise in TV. It seems Graham just couldn't hold back anymore in 2020 and now here we are haha

[@Demo5]

I think social media rotted his brain and grew (or planted) a seed of bigotry in his mind

[@kayla8402]

exactly, my biggest concern is the jump to an out and out fist fight maybe justifying violence against a "male anger" trans aggressor but the rest of it? actually pretty good.

[@klaxoncow]

@@kayla8402 In fairness, even the fist fight could just be read as a form of physical comedy. Like Vic and Bob hitting each other with frying pans. And, even there, the comedy hinges on it being unexpected - counter to social prohibitions that a man should never hit a woman - for a man and a woman to be getting into such no-holds-barred violence with each other. So, you know, if you see it as a man and woman fighting in an extreme "masculine" way, then that's the joke. But if you see it as two men fighting then it's just violence - it's just a fight - and there is no joke there. Like, this is not to excuse this. It's still playing on the "April is manly" meme throughout the episode. But it only becomes a joke if you see April as a woman. Then their behaviour is unexpected, unusual and, thus, comedic (with, as I say, an element of pure physical comedy, in that their fight is extreme exaggerated violence - in the same way that Vic hitting Bob with a frying pan to the face is exaggerated violence, and it wouldn't be funny if he just more realistically slapped him with his hand). If you're reading it as "two men fighting" then it's just violence. An extreme fight, but just a fight. That's not a joke (and if we didn't knwo what Graham Linehan became, I'd even be tempted to read a social comment underlying it - why would we find two men being so violent "normal" yet see a man and woman being violent, in the same way, as being so wrong and unacceptable? If this were two men fighting then shouldn't we equally be repulsed by the violence? Why are we only reserving the unacceptably to it being a man striking a woman? Why is it not equally wrong, in social attitudes, for this to be a man striking a man, or a woman striking a man, or a woman striking a woman (which, in reverse, such a "bitch fight" is often even portrayed as being sexy)? Shouldn't any violence be unacceptable, with gender playing no part whatsoever? This is no defence. But it's like Douglas regretting abandoning his relationship with April at the end and realising he got it wrong - and the whole point about Douglas is that he's a negative example of someone who absolutely is entirely meant to be an arsehole, who always gets it wrong. It only actually works as a joke - or "joke", if you will, as humour is subjective, of course - because it's a man and a woman. If April is not interpreted as being a woman here, then it's not a joke. It's just violence. It becomes a joke because men and women are not supposed to - social norms - engage in such violence. The exact peak of the comedy is - yes, weirdly enough - Douglas smacking a woman with no punches pulled whatsoever. And, crucially, April is just as violent back to him. It's comedic because this is pissing all over social conventions, challenging your perceptions unapologetically. Because it totally disregards the notion of a woman being a "protected privileged class" from violence, without blinking. It engenders a laugh from the audience, by being unexpected. By making you think, "wait, this is not how it's supposed to be" and the speed of the interaction is important, as it gives you no time to intellectually think about it. It's just happening and you're reacting on instinct and emotion. It's actually revealing a prejudice in social norms and that contradiction is what engenders the laugh. Otherwise, as I say, it's just a fight. Remove gender entirely and it's just a fight. it's just violence. So the joke, even there, isn't inherently transphobic unto itself. April has to be read as a woman to make it a joke at all. It's more a general statement about "gender roles" in general (plus, as I say, just the plain old "physical comedy" of an exaggerated unnecessary violence to it all - the frying pan to the face effect).

[@MQTate]

Ace video Lily, really paints a picture of just how terminally divorced Linehan is

[@natalie0505]

Wait.. that vile transphobic Graham dude on twitter made the IT crowd? I had no idea who he even was lmao

[@Quackervoltz]

Same honestly. I thought he was just a random shitty politician

[@Manticorn]

LOL it says a lot that he got famous for writing TV shows, and now a lot of people only know him as "that dude from Twitter." What a loser.

[@DrewDesign]

This is a real indictment of what Graham's legacy is now. Because he was a GREAT comedy writer and showrunner and he threw it all away.

[@zoethefoxgirl220]

@@DrewDesign Honestly. Its like becoming transphobic just rots your brain

[@janthran]

i'm just learning that now too! i loved the IT crowd and this is kind of a bummer lol

[@karmaplace]

I simultaneously *hate* The Work Outing episode because, yes, the main story of Jen and her “oh, he’s totally gay, only he’s not aware of it” date is just…well, boring, not funny, etc.? But the escalating gags of Moss and Roy digging themselves into deeper holes by trying to avoid any culpability for their shitty actions has made me cry laughing too many times. It’s quite frustrating. Graham Linehan sucks and deserves every ounce of misery he’s brought on himself, but I’ve never fully hated “the trans episode” because while, yes, the stereotypes and jokes are pretty shit, it seems like even the episode acknowledged that not only was Douglas in the wrong, but that he basically made the worst mistake of his life. Like, I don’t want to give any props to the show, but I love Matt Berry and Richard Ayoade and damn if it didn’t bring me some joy at that point in my life. Ugh.

[@kookyzebra6550]

Yes! That episode was problematic on both the gay front and the disabled front but I laughed so hard at Moss and Roy! And somehow Moss really loving the musical just made it seem like it wasn't really homophobic but actually quite wholesome.

[@nickchambers3935]

@@kookyzebra6550 How's it problematic on the disabled front? The gay part I understand but it didn't seem like disabled people were ever being made fun of, just Roy getting carried away in an elaborate lie

[@kookyzebra6550]

@@nickchambers3935 Fair point. I guess Roy pretending to be disabled seemed kinda problematic to me but Roy being an idiot was the butt of the joke rather than disabled people themselves. I also remember cringing at the actress talking to Roy like a child when he was in a wheelchair. But this could be making fun of people infantalising disabled people rather than endorsing it. It's been a while since I watched it, so I admit I don't remember all the nuance, just that it was kinda cringey.

[@karmaplace]

@@kookyzebra6550 I love Moss so much (probably because I love Richard Ayoade so much) that my head canon was whenever Moss was being shitty or misogynistic, that was Roy’s influence. Because a lot of the time he was a joyful awkward bean.

[@karmaplace]

@@kookyzebra6550 I definitely think there was an element of the staff of the theater being made fun of as well, like, why are they crying when they are waving Roy off? Very, “Oh, we did the bare minimum of decency of helping a victim of a crime who happened to be disabled (as far as they knew), what a wonderful, beautiful thing we’ve done!”

[@Tera_B_Twilight]

Graham Linehan makes me sad. He _became_ Douglas Reynholm in that trans episode. Only with fame instead of love.

[@CrackedCommie]

Honestly, until this video, I had no idea what Graham did before coming out as twitter's biggest transphobe

[@pastaman68]

I literally grew up watching the IT crowd with my mom and still didn't connect the dots until embarrassingly recently lol

[@user-fs9mv8px1y]

​@@pastaman68I simply just do not watch the credits of shows 👍

[@MCArt25]

I remember loving the IT Crowd, Black Books and Father Ted in my late teens and early 20s. That shithead tainted his own work retroactively.

[@LordColondy]

He's not transphobic at all.

[@JohnDRuddyMannyMan]

This is one of the best videos I’ve seen on the topic. It’s very clear and compassionate and offers a potential solution for these celebrity terfs to deradicalise themselves. Well done!

[@yandoryn]

Actually, yes, this is exactly what I wanted to hear. I've struggled with navigating that this episode has confusing and nuanced framing and that April can't help but come across as genuine and worthy of sympathy, especially because Graham Linehan.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

You can really feel the pain she experienced when coming out, the way it feels scripted like she has done it a hundred times before, it's like she just wanted for a moment to feel like a person who can live her life free of prejudice and bigotry but as the reality of the situation dawns on her she "comes clean" and preemptively apologizes for attempting to live a normal life

[@Geospasmic]

This was a very compassionate exploration of a person who probably doesn't deserve compassion but definitely could use it if he wants to get out of the prison cell he's locked himself in. The parallels between Linehan and the IT Crowd character are pretty stunning. What a sad case of a person refusing to back down from being wrong and turning into a shell of himself, I'd feel bad for him if he hadn't hurt so many others along the way.

[@helvete_ingres4717]

'get out of a prison cell' = parrot the status quo, fall in line, cave to societal pressure. Conformity is a the real cell. Also while you sit at your computer declaring who does or doesn't 'deserve' compassion, be mindful that others may be deciding that for you one day

[@Geospasmic]

@@helvete_ingres4717 lol, if I ever become a persecutorial weirdo driven by a single horrible opinion I hope I receive as much compassion as GL has and no more. People have tried and tried to communicate with him but he's only gotten more and more stuck in his toxic mindset. The people he's hurt with this behavior don't owe him shit.

[@Loribulon]

One thing to note in mentioning Black Books is that Linehan was kicked off the writing team after the first season, being written only by Dylan Moran afterwards. Dylan Moran is especially supportive of trans people, mocking transphobes regularly during his stand up sets, and Bill Bailey has gone on to say it's sad how Graham has turned out and he doesn't understand how he could end up like this. Black Books was never Grahams show.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Yes it always felt very much more Moran’s vehicle. And I think that’s part of why the pathos is so much stronger in it. Not that Ted didn’t deserve his humiliations, but Moran really knew how to make Bernard wallow in the awfulness without getting too bogged-down in the real world implications.

[@CryptidRenfri]

I fucking love Black Books, one of my favourite ever comedies and Dylan Moran's stand up is hilarious too

[@beefy74]

during the pandemic, i discovered the IT crowd and it quickly became a hyper fixation of mine. i thought “wow this show is so witty and clever i wonder who created it and what they’re up to now” 😭 boy was i surprised to find out how grimey and icky the creator is. mind you, this was before i watched the trans episode.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

I'm trans and Black Books is a lifelong favourite of mine.. the rest of Glinner's work is among my bffs favourites. It's exhausting sometimes just trying to enjoy things

[@shadenox8164]

To be fair, he's not the only writer on these projects either. Writers who haven't double down as he did.

[@Torthrodhel]

@@shadenox8164 definitely always good to remember. Him making such a scene of himself seems to overshadow that a lot.

[@avon8794]

@@Jane-oz7pp Black Books was mainly Dylan Moran's show though, Glinner was only there for the first season, primarily because they wanted someone with some sitcom experience to help them, we don't know how much of the writing was actually his, just that he helped write it

[@ilanarhian]

I suppose the reason the Rowling has not ruined her life is that comedy tends to be more liberal so there’s more likely to be people who won’t hire him anymore, whereas she already had a massive fortune anyway and plenty of right wingers will buy her books (even if perhaps the fundies won’t)

[@dreye3215]

I think that Graham is the kind of misogynist that's specifically hateful towards "unattractive" women. He'll be a total feminist ally to women he finds attractive, but any woman he doesn't will be treated as a punchline. You can see this reflected in that joke about "Judy", or how Jen is made fun of for "looking like a man". That's what makes terfs such an appealing movement to men like him, it's all about piting the "desirable" cis women against the "undesirable" trans and gnc women.

[@DarkLordGanondorf190]

Also, props for the interviewer starting her one sentence with "You are not seriously trying to say..."

[@DrewDesign]

SO I was today years old when i learned that Graham's ex wife was Peter Serafinowicz's SISTER

[@daniellamcgee4251]

Same!

[@jamesdominguez7685]

Something to remember about Black Books is that Glinner didn't write it alone. Most of the mood and feel of it came from Dylan Moran, which I presume is why he had a "created by" credit in half of the first season episodes. Moran also had a writing credit on 12 out of 18 episodes, compared to Glinner's six, and eight each for Kevin Cecil and Andy Reilly. Basically, whatever bad habits he may have had, they were tempered by several collaborators.

[@kaitlyn__L]

I definitely feel like Arthur Matthews tempered him with Ted as well. The IT Crowd was the first time he’d really had full creative control. And the misanthropy got turned up as a result. It’s quite telling that he turned back to collaboration with Count Arthur Strong, but for some reason needed to change everything about the setting compared to the radio version. And it’s painfully obvious which parts he wrote, in a way that the earlier stuff doesn’t have. Like he’d forgotten how to properly mesh with another writer, and instead just wrote “his half” of the episodes or something.

[@jamesdominguez7685]

@@kaitlyn__L - Contrast Fran finding out her date is gay with Jen finding out the same thing. Fran is disappointed but sticks around to be supportive. Jen screams for a taxi. It's just so mean-spirited and reeks of homophobia.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@jamesdominguez7685 definitely. There’s another added layer of messed-up too; the Black Books guy was genuinely in denial until Fran helped him realise it, while the IT Crowd guy was well-aware but just wanted to try to find a beard he could put-up with - without her knowledge!

[@carolinaferreira5890]

Dylan Moran has also called out Glinner and has shown to be supportive of trans people. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Glinner got sacked after one season due to how unbearable he was during the production, he only got hired bc Moran had no experience in producing a TV show. Their relationship was strictly business moreso than any creative kinship.

[@dimitriid]

You're right in pointing out is far more insidious than just going 'Here there were clear signs of transphobia all along' like people want to. Instead the bigger issue is people like Linehan being proper liberals in a liberal polite society right up until the point that they were publicly called out. It reveals the fundamental issue of liberal politics which is that there's not really support there at all for marginalized people: it came from activist that pretty much forced a varying level of acceptance from the political class who in turn never actually confronted the actual origins and reasons for bigotry so, the strategy from conservatives and fascists continues to work: just push back rights starting from the most vulnerable and with the least widespread support and use that momentum to roll back support for *everybody* that has gotten those token liberal consessions and compromise points of recognition and basic human rights. So the issue is that centrists and liberals (which are fundamentally just also centrists with a thin progressive coat of paint) are usually as likely to swing to either side because of their comfortable position in life so, Linehan and Rowling are not *really* the issue but basically the vast majority of the population that are likely to take their place at a moment's notice and even withdraw previous support to marginalized people because they didn't really *have to* actually consider or empathize anybody but themselves and they're only ever thinking about their dominant place in society whenever they admit this or even realize it or not.

[@lazyaf1218]

I was so afraid to watch this video since IT crowd is one of my favorite shows, so thank you for not dragging it through the mud. Every piece of criticism was properly based, detailed, and explained just enough to put a finger on this show's flaws without absolutely destroying it. Great vid overall, thanks for educating me on who the creator of this show it as a person, I've never paid much attention to it before

[@sam-qw3rl]

you really can't cover glinner without acknowledging that he helped create and collaborated on some really important comedy of the era. it also does a disservice to the people he worked with, many of whom are incredible and foundational comedians of the era and not massive bigots, to paint everything he created and worked on as worthless simply because of his ideological fixations and how he refused to grow and improve as a person.

[@GeorgePrice-wf5lx]

Good analysis here. However I'm not sure how we go from this to voting for legislators who would put, say, Isla Bryson in a women's prison.

[@abborne1]

"Some event in their life" divorce. It's always divorce. Every single terf is divorced. It's uncanny how thoroughly and completely they, as a community, are divorced.

[@theMoporter]

Tbf, it probably causes more divorces than is caused by them.

[@FurbyFullyLoaded]

So glad the vid’s back up!

[@OneFaintingRobinOld]

It's so tragic that I just can't stomach watching The IT Crowd anymore because that opening theme is genuinely one of my favourites in TV...

[@TOBAPNW_]

12:49 actually, the IT crowd's laugh track comes from a studio audience, rather than being canned laughter.

[@hiddenechoes]

Oh good the video is back! Get to finish it now. 🎉❤ Thanks for your work!

[@markbrown6978]

I am sp grateful to Graham Linehan's absolute commitment to 2 +2 =4.

[@Chocc_Ice]

It's probably more of a weird coincidence than anything, but the Alan Partridge episode that Graham appears in also mentions The Crying Game

[@EmlynBoyle]

Methinks Graham doth protest too much perhaps.

[@fallingdream]

honestly you'd have a hard time finding a 90s comedy show or movie that didn't reference The Crying Game

[@AllG98]

I’d be interested to hear a breakdown of The Mighty Boosh. I love that show, but coming back to it in recent years makes some dated elements stick out.

[@GloomyFish]

I agree. I love that show but oh my god a lot of it aged badly

[@Sentientmatter8]

It really did

[@lloroshastar6347]

As a huge fan of British comedy and sitcoms, to be honest you'd be hard pressed to find anything that isn't problematic here or there. But when thing's are really bad, well, read up on Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson. They make Stephen Crowder sound 'woke'

[@patrickflanagan862]

I remember the blackfacce parts for sure as being poorly dated, but it's been awhile since I watched it all. Are there any trans things I don't remember that she'd talk about? Only thing that comes to my mind is Naboo having no genitals and the other Shaman saying his crotch is "smoother than the bonnet of a Porsche." I'm probably forgetting something tho.

[@rhaeven]

Boosh had many problems but is never really hateful. Manning and Davidson were particularly vile racists even for their time

[@SMATF5]

28:24 That episode was weird, because it sort of rode the fence tonally: it simultaneously played the situation for laughs and as a serious situation. I thought it was interesting how different characters react; Jen laughs at Roy, while Moss takes him seriously and advocates for him. Had the writers been more tonally consistent, it could have been a really good episode.

[@GloomyFish]

Honestly glad someone's talking about this episode since it's been on my mind a lot recently. I never wouldve thought this came from a transphobic git like Graham Linehan, since Douglas is the one portrayed as the bad guy and April is portrayed in a positive light. The smaller bits of transphobia could easily be explained as "a product of its time" or just cis men being ignorant. Apart from that, i honestly would call April a mostly good trans character... and she cane from the mind of Graham freaking Linehan Jeez i actually didnt realise he was the one who wrote IT Crowd and Father Ted. I still love those shows but it is a bit disappointing.

[@SamanthaLain]

The it crowd is still great. It's very sad it was written by a transphobe even if the show mostly escaped it

[@paulhammond6978]

@@SamanthaLain I had forgotten that he wrote Black Books too, though.

[@SamanthaLain]

@paulhammond6978 He wasn't the only creator of black book, i think, but yeah, another good show made at least partially by a bigot. It does suck. I still watch the shows, though

[@makeitthrough_]

​​@@paulhammond6978 Only series one thankfully

[@borzenkam]

this channel deserves more views

[@JALaflinOfficial]

Love your insight! The thing that makes me sad about that episode, beside the obvious, is that Story A (about Jen giving the speech about the internet) is one of the funniest things in the whole series.

[@RedMeansRecording]

Gonna send this to graham and his wife. Oh wait.

[@ExKiwi-yw8er]

glad mizzix could join us for this one, her moral support really helped.

[@terraincognita5488]

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen or heard of the show Dark Angel but I’d love to hear your take on that ‘trans episode’ (S01E08) ….when I looked it up just now to find out the episode number, I learned that apparently it was the first time that a trans actress was cast to play a trans woman character on american television

[@SonofSethoitae]

I'm guilty of only thinking of Dark Angel as "that show Jensen Ackles was on before Supernatural" but reading the premise just now made it sound kind of cool. I may have to watch it at some point. Thanks for the inspiration stranger!

[@TigeRider42]

Commenting for the algorithm. Love the channel and your well-written essays.

[@thevfxmancolorizationvfxex4051]

I'd love to see you look at Peep Show next in this series

[@AllG98]

Did they have any trans characters in the show? I’ve seen all of it, but can’t remember

[@clyde3052]

@@AllG98 not that I can remember specifically, but Jeremy has some weird attitudes towards trans people that come up a few times

[@PedanticPig]

​@@clyde3052And Robert Webb is also terfy, although not nearly as vocal and deranged as Linehan.

[@clyde3052]

@@PedanticPig oh god yeah forgot about that 😭

[@ReoRis72]

I have to disagree with you about "The Work Outing." For me it was about the funniest thing I remember seeing. Not for the gay situation, but when Roy discovers Moss working behind the bar all because they both went to the wrong toilet, I think is one of the funniest moments in 21st century British comedy.

[@JoGrant-dq8ob]

lmao I still quote in that pathetic voice "I'm disabled🥺"

[@ThriftyFangirl]

I rewatched the IT Crowd about a year ago and was surprised by how not-bad that episode was for most of the same reasons you mentioned. I don’t consider myself trans but I’m afab and a little she/they gender-queer, and it felt validating seeing a woman who enjoyed traditionally masculine hobbies. Seeing her confidently asserting herself as a woman independently if the fact that she enjoys “manly” activities (at least that’s how I perceived it) was kind of an awesome representation how gender identity always conform to societal gender roles, even if unintentionally

[@nevem5010]

I'm not the only person I know of who quit The IT Crowd on first watch, and took ages to go back to it, after Linehan did "lol women are obsessed with shoes!" AGAIN in its very first episode. I think he did have some very odd ideas about gender that do show up throughout it. But then that's hardly unusual. The fact that's it's gone so far beyond that is a horrible triumph of radicalisation. Great video, thanks Lily ❤.

[@christianwise637]

To be pedantic for a moment, the "women obsessed with shoes" episode is actually the second episode, but yes it is a very bizarre and honestly very telling choice, even without the benefit of hindsight. I used to really love this show as a teenager, and even back then I thought the show's overall approach to gender and the associated stereotypes to be weirdly dated and cliché, making it very rich that Linehan tries to depict himself as the king of the feminists or something these days

[@Sevenpuddingsx]

I appreciate the effort you took to get this up, i hope you get paid for your hard work!

[@compasspictures]

I just expected an analysis of this one episode, but this is so much more. This is seriously well done!

[@selkiewife]

Thank you for your insight into the shows/episodes! It *is* fascinating how he reacted considering that there have been way worse depictions and much harsher criticisms of those. It's scary how easily someone can get sucked into cult thinking.

[@JimmyneutronwasokayIguess]

“A lot of Black Books is people being shitty and getting punished for it” I mean I’d honestly use this same logic to defend what a pervert Father Jack is. It’s a blatantly anti religion joke that all of these priests suck. They’re not always punished but they’re not exactly paraded as heroes either

[@nevem5010]

Agreed. Jack being a pervert isn't the joke, the joke is how badly the church has allowed priests to behave. Not saying anyone has to be comfortable watching it, but as a child in the '90s when so much stuff was coming out about exactly that, it was clear to me what it was saying. That condemnation underpins pretty much everything in the show, and I always got the feeling that was understood by most of the audience, but maybe people more removed from that time and subject don't connect to it as much.

[@JimmyneutronwasokayIguess]

@@nevem5010 I mean I was born in 98 and stuff still kept coming out as I was growing up. I think it’s hilarious

[@nevem5010]

@@JimmyneutronwasokayIguess Sure; I was trying to come up with an explanation for someone not connecting with it, rather than suggesting that everyone younger wouldn't.

[@yandoryn]

I have been anticipating this video.

[@lanibentz9976]

Man or woman, binary or not, phyrexia welcomes us all

[@HyperUserGoesHyperer]

I’ve been waiting for someone to do a video like this. Thank you!

[@RedChestedBird]

BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE!! YAHO!!

[@catz5sims2]

Absolutely love hearing more people appreciate Caelan Conrad and their fantastic video essays

[@EnchantedEssays]

Fantastic video! It's high time someone made a deep dive on this! I had a similar position to you on the episode, but I'm cis, and I was worried that I was just making excuses for liking one of my favourite sitcoms. I do have a correction though! The IT Crowd didn't have a laugh track- it was the reaction of the live audience. Obviously, this doesn't mean that these lines weren't intended to get a laugh, but it shows you that this is how the audience genuinely reacted. Fantastic vid! You just earned yourself a sub!

[@magorzatasajnok7484]

Thanks for this episode. I've been wondering about this episode for ages. I grew up loving IT Crowd and "Speech" episode was one of my favourite ones. Being a cis woman I started revising my fav shows in terms of being offensive to minorities. I really appreciate your input on this.

[@Yog-Speggoth]

Incredibly nuanced take, thank you for sharing. I might actually give IT Crowd a go now as I've always heard good things about it, even if a lot of the humour hasn't aged well.

[@PizikSpaeth]

What a way to time a video. GG! [Edit after watching] A great take on the situation.

[@wackyvorlon]

It’s remarkable for its period because April is depicted as a real person, which genuine feelings. I agree with your perspective on this episode. It’s actually pretty good representation for the time.

[@redwaytoo]

I kinda remember the first season of Black Books being a lot more gross and unappealing than the next ones (like the final episode of the first season where one of the characters gets taken advantage of by a fetish photographer), and looking up, it's the only season Graham actualy wrote for?

[@shizzlebricks3547]

Yeah I find the second and third seasons are generally way better, and it's nice to know that they're not tainted by Graham considering how much I enjoy them.

[@sadwasdead5065]

i'm glad to hear that actually. i mean it would've been ideal if he hadn't touched anything, but at least i know one of my few favourite sitcoms wasn't entirely created by a transphobe

[@nataliacecyliarojas6219]

Black Books accidentally has this very strong queer subtext that is pretty interesting

[@KittyCraic]

Is that the Midnight Cowboy-esque episode? It is awkward as. We’re lead to believe that this exploitation of Manny is funny, but when it happens to women or young girls, we’re to interpret it as grooming? The point being, Manny was vulnerable and scared, having ran away from home, and this creep took advantage. Taken outside of the context of a comedy, it is pretty horrendous.

[@gangrene11]

you are awesome. you seem like a really compassionate and understanding person.

[@bhkatzur]

This channel deserves more views!

[@XFallenFreakX]

Also I saw your community posts and hope you are feeling better! Ive had mouth pains my entire life. I wish you all the vibes.

[@chrisleneil]

Black Books was easily one of my 2 favourite comedies. JK Rowling wrote a series that I hyper-fixated on to the degree that it relates to my career. [plus, on an adjacent note, Joss Whedon was my hero in the 90s] As a not exactly cis person, I feel as if I have the… what is the opposite of the Midas touch? Wonderful video, as always.

[@bombsite1847]

Love your videos Lily! How you put yourself through all these shows is beyond me

[@catqueenesme]

this video was so good! i enjoy most of your trans-rep-in-media style vids, but the message and analysis of this one in particular. also, you are rocking that leather jacket, it really suits you! this might sound a bit weird, but it goes well with your hair. anyway, great vid!

[@VerbenaComfrey]

Hi! I got recommended through Dead Domain and I'm subscribed! This was a wonderful piece and I'm saving it to share. Now off to watch the rest of your things!

[@lucycockle5233]

This is a really good video. Thank you for making this, I never really thought about it this way - I like this interpretation. Much love

[@Will-pg4bh]

Frankie Boyle once called out Glinner for being addicted to the internet and I think there’s some truth in that.

[@ThrobbertJomes]

I love your content!!! Keep up the hard work!!!!

[@JaredGriffiths2000]

4:02 I listened to the commentary on that episode, in the commentary during that scene Graham said "the quote un-quote girl."

[@zal119]

I always felt that episode of the IT crowd showed how there must have been multiple people writing it. I loved the "internet box" subplot, and even watching it the 1st time I knew the April subplot can only have 1 ending, him being his utter trash self and hurting her in the process and ending their relationship, but up until the end I had no clue how they are to wrap these 2 up, let alone having them intersect (as these subplots in the IT crowd usually did, for some comedic effect). Honestly I felt that the ending went more in the way of April "punishing" Douglas for his transphbia by kicking him around and beating him, as a woman, rather than the implication of her woman "disguise" being worn away by her masculine aggressiveness showing through, as it has been interpreted by many. This is just my gut impression of it though, as I always felt Douglas was in dire need of getting the shit being kicked out of him by the people he abused. Also had no idea that cunt Linehan was involved in any way.

[@bosstowndynamics5488]

I feel like Linehan had transphobic intent (albeit not on the same level as modern Linehan) but for various reasons it can still be read in a more supportive way since it's mostly stereotypes that were widely held at the time and, as you say, Douglas was framed as being in the wrong at the end

[@bunbunjackalope4415]

Was waiting on this video ngl. Love the it crowd, but I first watched it pre transition and forgot about this episode, and then rewatched it and was helllllla uncomfortable about it

[@hazel5646]

Don’t worry, Lily, i remember the oil from prometheus

[@lint1234]

this video is so thought provoking and enjoyable. i think it's so important and genuine that you acknowledge "this is what people might want me to say/do in this video, but this is my opinion" -especially considering you have so much thought and research put into the topic of transphobia in sitcoms!! :3 i love your videos.

[@jacobdevine9031]

Thankfully Dylan Moran was co-writing Black Books, that might be why Bernard Black's outlook on his own gender is more indifferent than hostile

[@yasmineh.1333]

Loved this video. Very sharp and concise writing, those 30 minutes flew by before I knew it. Also great haircut :)

[@toddsaskatchewan]

I remember watching that IT episode around 2012, and being really surprised and kind of pleased by "I don't care" from Douglas Renholm. It was really nice to have someone just be fine with it. Then it was ruined by the "from Iran" thing. It felt progressive in that '00s way until that moment.

[@chromatos7428]

There's another piece of work of Graham Linehan that you can look at - a sketch comedy show called Big Train (featuring a much younger Simon Pegg). I don't recall whether he was directly involved with this particular example, but there's a sketch where a gay male+male couple are talking to a fertility doctor about options to have a child, and the doctor tries to tell them they don't have the reproductive capacity to carry a baby. There might be other sketches to look at from this angle as well, I haven't watched it in a while (thanks Linehan for making a lot of shows I really loved when I was younger now completely unwatchable).

[@sungexpression9093]

Lily your hair is beautiful!

[@CheeseLovingGuy]

Just settling in to watch. It's gonna be fun.

[@auralistank]

Graham Linehan also got really into the praise he received in backing the Irish abortion rights movement so it's a really easy line from there to accepting praise from the terfs in that movement once he got the first hint of criticism on trans stuff.

[@fightthepowerman]

I'm sure people have mentioned this but Dylan Moran said that Graham Lineham was only included as a creator of Black Books so the pitch could get some of that Father Tedd clout. Supposedly Moran and Lineham had a power struggle near the start of the serious that Moran won because he was also playing the titular character. Rumour has it that they arent most fond of each other

[@limenicola]

Really? I mean I'm not that surprised tbh cause the first episode was (imo) by far the best in black books & I always wondered what happened after that.. I guess the powestuggle became more evident and the show was best co-written by writers who were getting along. Thanks for clearing up a long standing question though!

[@XFallenFreakX]

You said "Graham the wife is not coming back with the kids im sorry." LIKE. IM WHEEZING. Using that for every comeback ever.

[@helvete_ingres4717]

that his family broke up over not wanting to deal with the fallout of his public opinions which maybe you don't like but were met with endless threats of violence against his family, and his wife didn't want her or heaven forbid the kids to bear the brunt of that so left - the fact you make a joke about that is proof of your sociopathy and vindication of terroristic violence. Or what, do you think his wife left b/c she's hugely into trans rights and wouldn't stay married to such a 'bigot'?

[@karmaplace]

@@helvete_ingres4717, mate, are you OK? I’ve seen you posting the same argument on a lot of comments. I don’t think any of us condone threats of violence, especially against innocent standbys like his wife and kids. HOWEVER, I do think if someone pulls a Graham Linehan (publicly digging his heels in and fighting against human rights), you deserve the public shaming, and if someone doesn’t want to stay married to someone who got so publicly owned, that’s their right.

[@XFallenFreakX]

I was simply restating a screencap response showed in the video. I wasnt meaning anything behind it. I felt it was a clever comeback.

[@karmaplace]

@@XFallenFreakX I don’t think you need to explain yourself. This person’s going through something. Very “Is Graham Linehan in the room with us now?” vibes. Or, “Did your mom leave your dad because he was a racist turd?”

[@hackerx7329]

I always looked at it like this. He truly did treat her the same as any other woman. He didn't really listen to what she had to say and only ever really considered himself.

[@faramirbutnothatone]

as a non binary person, I absolutely love the IT Crowd, it's one of my fav sitcoms but finding out just now that it was written by that one fucking vile transphobe on twt was fucking crazy. I can't believe I've never made that connection before holy shit. Some of my favorite fucking jokes are from that show, so much of the main cast has gone on to be in other things I absolutely love, and Moss is inexplicably one of the most relatable autistic coded characters I've seen on tv. It's so unfortunate that the creator has dug himself into this godawful trench.

[@faramirbutnothatone]

@@bab3419 way to be just flat out wrong brother

[@refitdan]

Yay, you got it back up. Great video Lily.

[@beardoodle9835]

Your explanation of the pipeline from criticism to extremist is so well done! What an excellent video, so glad I found your channel 😊💜

[@JusGodden]

As a transgendered person. This is one of my favorite episodes. Anyone possibly boasting to somehow be offended by only speaking for their own personal issues is not representative for anyone else.

[@HolliGenett]

When I heard about Linehan's behavior, I remembered this episode of IT Crowd and went...ahhh oh yeah.

[@mikemalaspina153]

When I have a job again, I will definitely become a patreon supporter! Your content is SO good and SO useful to me!

[@totw4866]

YES !!, omg so exciting to see this show being covered