The Trinity vs. Bryan Denlinger: Part 4, What does "Godhead" even mean??

[@Elkwoman46]

Greetings to you. I appreciated your reading around the eight minute mark, about the Trinity. Because I was exposed to some very radical views of the Trinity, which I would say is not even the Trinity, but more a Tritheism view where many actually do believe in three gods in Heaven, and when the Lord Jesus was in the Flesh, HE was not God. How very sad is that? So, I was shattered, it was a forced view, and there was that time long ago where I did not know which God to pray to. But the Lord Jesus helped me beyond what I could have ever imagined. So, in your reading around the eight minute mark to a little past the ten minute mark, I carefully read along with you and paused to carefully look at it and reflect on it as well. I felt I had read a shorter version of this before, and perhaps this one too, a very long time ago. But here is the thing. What about where it says in the Bible that the Lord Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit? It only mentions that HE was begotten by the Father. I ask because this absence is noticed, long ago and now too. Why the omission? Even more, I believe Isaiah 40:3 tells us Who came in the Flesh, and in fact is quoted, at least in part, in all four Gospels. Over the years I have also noticed that people deny Isaiah 9:6 as far as Everlasting/Eternal Father and demote that verse, even telling people that is not what it means. I do not deny any verse in the Bible. And when people begin to say that the Three are co-equal or co-eternal, and even with separate "egos" as I have truly read in a Trinity booklet, I question this for some time. For example, in John 4, the Lord Jesus tells us about the Father and worshiping Him in Spirit and in Truth, and referring to the Father, the Lord Jesus says God is Spirit...referring to the Father. So, in the case of Co-...If the Father is Spirit, is the Holy Spirit ANOTHER Spirit? And there is more...pertaining the the Son...The Last Adam is a life giving Spirit or quickening Spirit. Or how does one reconcile John 2:19 with Gal 1:1? What you read in your video in this time frame, I mentioned above, is actually good, but incomplete, and over the years, the truth that I have seen is that many people who embrace the Trinity do believe in Three Gods by their words and the way they speak about God. They really do not believe in One God. Perhaps this is the very thing that is alarming, for it almost always culminates in the demotion of the Son. John 14:14 is never mentioned. Also, there are some diagrams of the Trinity with the circle and in the middle it typically has the word God, then split in three ways to the outside circle it says Father, Son, and Holy Spirit...but the horrific thing about this diagram is what it typically says on the outer rim of the circle between the Three Names...such as the Son is Not the Father, the Father is Not..., and the Holy Spirit is not......well, you know. But there are so many things in the Bible that show this is not at all true. Perhaps the best way to explain this is Matthew 28:19 where the Lord Jesus shows us how to baptize. Here is what is most worthy of contemplation: Why did the Disciples in the Book of Acts totally disobey the Lord Jesus---by baptizing in the Name of Jesus throughout the Book of Acts, such as Acts 2:38, etc? Could it be that Jesus is the Name in Matthew 28:19? Of course. And I cannot speak for other translations, but like in the KJB John 5:43 and John 10:25 tell us that the Father's Name is Jesus, yes? Notice how some other translations bypass this "name" usage, which is actually what it means in Greek: Name. Authority and other substitutes are much lesser definitions for name, yes? Of course. Or what about John 13:20 per Thayer's Definition? Is not this: "If One I Send?" (Pertaining to the Holy Spirit?) And what about the removal of Matthew 18:11...is that not extremely important to the double Deity mentions that the Lord Jesus gives in this Chapter? And does not the Lord Jesus say the Holy Spirit will come in His Name? I think so. And of course, other names are given for the Holy Spirit: the Spirit of the Father, the Spirit of Christ, etc. But also, I need to mention this: at the rate of the revisions of modern translations--are happening, more and more tweaks and alterations are occurring and even verses are disappearing. I am so very grateful we can embrace still what the Lord Jesus has preserved for us, and we should rejoice for it, when so many translations coming forth are agenda based. Consider what those who translated centuries ago went through to give us what they did. I believe their cause and reason for doing so is worthy of consideration. God bless you in Jesus' Name.

[@servantofchristSDG]

My apologies for the super delay in replying. It seems some of the things you have brought up have modalistic assumptions behind them. I can't respond to each item, but I'll offer a couple thoughts. The portion of the Athanasian creed is dealing with the relations ad intra: what is the relation between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in God. So it speaks of the Son being eternally begotten by the Father, but this isn't in reference to the Incarnation. Now in regards to the Incarnation and resurrection, etc., it's important to remember that the works of God ad extra (outside of God) are undivided between the persons. So it is natural that Jesus should speak of raising Himself and Paul speak of the Father raising Him, etc. But while these works are undivided between the persons, we still find in Scripture the distinction between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So we have to assert that the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit, etc., in order to not confound the persons and be faithful to Scripture. Hopefully this is helpful and again, apologies for the long delay.

[@megamariomario1]

Great info!

[@servantofchristSDG]

Thanks! Next one will be on the Greek words behind "Godhead." Won't be as long of a time gap between this one and the next installment!

[@claudiozanella256]

The Trinity is a painful story: Jesus clearly states at least fifty times -50- in all sauces, that God is only made by 1. the FATHER and 2. the SON, NEVER that God is TRIUNE. For example "those who will believe in me through their word so that they all may be one, as you, FATHER, are in ME, and I in YOU. THEY also may be ONE IN US...". You see: NO THIRD PERSON is there. Yet, the people of the council of Nicaea, and the council afterwards, don't give a damn about what Jesus repeatedly says. They fail to understand that the "Holy Spirit" is NOT a THIRD Person but the FATHER, again. Jesus has the "FATHER who is a spirit" and calls Him "Father". But when Jesus wants to specifically refer to that "SPIRIT who is the Father" (nothing actually changes) Jesus uses the name "Holy Spirit". I.e. "Father" (who is a spirit) and "Holy Spirit" are just two fully EQUIVALENT NAMES. The "Church Fathers" - who didn't get anything - came up with a "triune God". For that they even needed to INVENT a fantasy God (the "mute" Lord who gives life) absolutely unknown in the Bible... And then the theologians, who are then obliged for 2 millennia, they even today awkwardly try to justify that absurd theory using improbable arguments...

[@servantofchristSDG]

And yet, Jesus speaks of the Holy Ghost thusly: John 14:16-17 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me" The Spirit proceeds from the Father and is not the Son nor the Father. In Acts 5, Peter tells Ananias and Sapphira that by lying to the Holy Ghost, they lied to God.

[@claudiozanella256]

@@servantofchristSDG The Comforter is not the Holy Spirit, indeed his name is "Spirit of Truth", not "Holy Spirit." If he were the Holy Spirit, he would of course be called "Holy Spirit", not "Spirit of Truth"! The Comforter does not come down the sky when Jesus was baptized, you are not supposed to baptize people in the name of the Comforter, he didn't care about Mary's pregnancy, he didn't help Jesus in the desert, he doesn't the future.... Jesus NEVER had anything to do with him, in fact he will only come to relieve Jesus "If I do not go the Comforter will not come to you." Thus he cannot be the Holy Spirit who had to do with Jesus. The Comforter cannot be the Holy Spirit because he himself is HELPED by the Holy Spirit (i.e. by the Father) !!! "He will guide you into all truth because He will NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN, BUT whatever He hears (from the Father)..." He is helped exactly in the SAME WAY AS JESUS is also helped "The words I say to you, I SAY NOT ON MY OWN BUT from the Father..." Thus, the Comforter is an INTERMEDIATE FIGURE between the apostles and the Holy Spirit. It's IMPOSSIBLE that the Comforter be the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit always HELPS, is NEVER HELPED by anybody! This means that in the verse "26The Comforter whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things.." a "sweet little hand" ADDED THREE WORDS "the Holy Spirit" ("ho hagios pneuma") after the word "Comforter." That guy fell short of divine persons and decided to "upgrade" the Comforter...

[@servantofchristSDG]

@@claudiozanella256 Thanks for bringing up John 14:26. The phrase is actually "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον" ("to pneuma to hagion") and isn't a textual variant. If it's true that someone added the phrase and it's not original, then the only way we can know what the Bible says is through our theological system; the Bible becomes a plaything we can do whatever we want with. Sorry friend, John 14:26 identifies the Holy Spirit as the Comforter and that phrase is unquestionably original and true.

[@claudiozanella256]

@@servantofchristSDG Sorry my friend, the Holy Spirit HELPS, is NOT HELPED ! On the other hand the Comforter himself is HELPED by the Holy Spirit (i.e. by the Father) !!! "He will guide you into all truth because He will NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN, BUT whatever He hears (from the Father)..." He is helped exactly in the SAME WAY AS JESUS is also helped "The words I say to you, I SAY NOT ON MY OWN BUT from the Father..." The Comforter cannot thus be the Holy Spirit and the verse 14:26 has been tampered with by a trinitarian, precisely by ADDING THREE WORDS "...ho hagios pneuma... ho hos ho pater...." (MOUNCE). Jesus states "I am not ALONE because the Father is with me" He doesn't say "I am not alone because the Father and the Comforter are with me". This concept is REITERATED DOZENS OF TIMES! JESUS IS ONLY WITH THE FATHER !! No track of a Comforter in the life of Jesus ! The Comforter IS HELPED.

[@servantofchristSDG]

@@claudiozanella256 Your whole point hinges on this phrase. What manuscript evidence do you have to prove it has either been added or tampered with? I've checked and found none. Are you citing Bill Mounce as an authority for your transliteration of "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον ὃ πέμψει ὁ πατὴρ ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου?"