The Triumph Stag was a Beautiful Failure

[@5rgs17]

I love my 1977 MKII Stag. Original V8 with a proper build and a few mods. In 30 years of ownership, it has only let me down once. A Good video summary.

[@TwinCam]

Lovely to hear!

[@wilsjane]

Most engine faults seemed to be with the engines cooling system. Minor leaks often resulted in the system being topped up with water, then once the antifreeze corrosion inhibitors became too dilute, the rot soon set in. Antifreeze in that era, also needed to be completely replaced every 3 years, until the modern red antifreeze came along. Regular replacement of oil and antifreeze with top quality products, along with replacement of brake fluid every few years is the life blood of any car, but often ignored as the car gets older. It is like feeding your grandmother on cheap burgers and wondering why her health declines.

[@karlos543]

@wilesjane: is that because they are getting older?

[@wilsjane]

@@karlos543 I think that it is because minor leaks have been ignored and the system has been topped up with water, then corrosion has set in. Lack of corrosion inhibitors and good quality oil results in the death of many engines. It is nonsensical, since as an engine gets older, it still needs to run on the correct fluids, particularly if this includes fully synthetic oil. We do not feed our grandparents on junk food, but many people kill their cars that way. LOL

[@EtonieE25]

@LRC Great to hear that good news 👍 What colour is your baby?

[@andrewthomas695]

The Stag came so close to perfection before tripping over just before the finish line .

[@simon-oy6um]

Never seen many on the scrap heap 😢

[@andrewthomas695]

@@simon-oy6um Despite the issues, the Stag is saved by it's shear charisma.

[@lewis72]

@@simon-oy6um Considering that more than 1/3 still survive and not that many were made in the first place, not that many on went on the scrap heap. Look at cars like the Mk1 Mondeo. You never see them now whereas every other car used to be a Mondeo.

[@hughdavis3135]

It is a shame they didn't put the Dolly Sprint engine into it, 127 BHP was not to be sniffed at and on a par with the straight 6, 2.5L. Saab went on to redesign the Triumph engine and their version with their own 16 valve head was reportedly good for around 220 BHP, now that in a Stag would have been something!

[@lewis72]

@@hughdavis3135 I don't think that a 4 cylinder Stag would have been that appealing, especially when the Sprint engine wasn't that reliable; it had many of the problems that the Stag V8 had.

[@lesklower7281]

You right with a couple of mods to the engine they can become reliable the engine was not an engineering problem it was a manufacturing problem and they are a good looking car classy elegant and sporty

[@chrisspain7776]

Spot on! I wish more people would realise that the problems were almost exclusively a quality problem, comprising manufacturing faults, and penny pinching on poor parts. Those built properly with the correctly sourced parts did not fail under test, but the engines built in production were sub-standard.

[@roberttaylor6295]

Though I may be accused of being a cracked and sycophantic record, but Ed you really are a magical researcher, script writer, editor and presenter which makes you stand head and shoulders above any of the pretenders who also attempt erudite, professional reviews but fail on most levels. Of course, on this one we miss your smiling and enthusiastic driving that so accurately defines your your knowledge and the real qualities of the rewiewed cars. But I can understand that it is not always possible but the dealers/auction houses really miss selling, a marketing and advertising trick by not letting you behind the wheel as you enthusiasm and knowledge is priceless. Thank you for yet another brill video, and I look forward to both the next and more about your Metro stable! Rob.

[@roberttaylor6295]

Fredrik I am glad you agree, but I think if he were to move to mainstream TV they would kill his unique and knowledgeable style and turn him into a woke conformist. So though I know he has huge potential in every respect, the erudite homeliness . brightness and the great enthusiasm of his approach would be crushed by having the use by corportrate speak. Good to here from you, Rob@fredriklarsson8105

[@TwinCam]

Thank you folks. Very kind as ever!

[@colrhodes377]

One of my neighbours has a 72 Stag. The engine is fine now, but it needed a lot on tinkering . The radiator was swapped out for a better one, and various jobs had to be done over time. The sound of the V8 burbling is tremendous

[@thatcheapguy525]

nice one Ed, beautifully researched. I spent my 4 year apprenticeship at a Triumph Stag specialist (or should I say Triumph 'Snag' as owners often called them) and if one car truly sums up British Leyland, the Stag was it. unfortunately the Rover V8 is a bad conversion for the Stag. we retro-fitted a number of Triumph V8s back into Stags. the Rover engine weight and power/torque characteristics are completely wrong for the Triumph chassis causing amongst other things: chronic understeer, regularly mashed differentials and ghastly fuel consumption. my understanding is the original Stag V8 was intended to be a 2.5 litre but was hurridly reworked into a 3.0 litre months before production started and this is where some of the engine issues start from (e.g. big end bearing are too small). if it wasn't for the V8 obsession, the trusty old Triumph 2.5 could have gone in the MK1 and when it was re-engineered into overhead cam form (as the Rover SD1 2600 engine) it would have been an excellent upgrade.

[@TwinCam]

Absolutely!!

[@johnmoruzzi7236]

Yes, the Rover V8 made sense going into the MGB instead of the heavy 4-cylinder B or 6 cylinder C Series engine, although the GT V8 was scuppered by the oil crisis. Triumph did try the 2.5 pushrod 6 (possibly with PI) but found that they needed more for the Stag so the OHC V8 went to 3 litres. Anyway cast iron pushrod engines were old fashioned by 1970 and the future lay with OHC aluminium engines like the E Series and Saab / Dolomite / TR7 slant 4. The Triumph / Rover OHC 6 would have been great if it could fit the Stag and 2000 / 2500 saloons but those platforms were being wound down and the future lay with the big SD1 hatchback, no GT and ultimately no sports cars.

[@thatcheapguy525]

@@johnmoruzzi7236 absolutely right about the Rover V8. it was ideal for its original fitment with all that bottom-end torque and its fuel consumption wouldn't bother its owners too much. although heavy, in contrast the A B C engines were very efficient. its no surprise the A was produced for half a century and copied by Datsun along the way. my time with Stags ended 38 years ago but when you spend your formative years working on them you don't forget easily lol. I had an SD1 2300S some 3 years later and remember how similar it was under the bonnet to the Triumph 2000's and Stags but didn't get a chance to compare them directly. if what I've learned since is right, the Stag could have lived on thanks to the OHC 6. what we ended up with was that Marmite TR7 as the sole 'Triumph' sports car.

[@stuartpratt5666]

@@thatcheapguy525 When Triumph folded and Canley was closed in 1980 I believe there was a Rover V8 engined factory prototype lying around, so it was obviously something the company considered. They probably came to the same conclusions you outline regarding its non-suitability.

[@fairmont___d]

At last someone's told the Stag story in a fair, balanced and honest way. Thank you.

[@richardw64]

Such a beautiful profile from all angles.

[@skyhill4279]

Superb video, thank you. I pass a beautiful British racing green one every day going to and from work. Still looks a great car even today.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks mate 🙂

[@Dave-in-France]

Hi Edd, I had one in the 1970's and loved mine to bits. After test driving several examples: auto, manual with O/d etc. I plumped for a 3.0 ltr with manual box and she was a right belter. Wish I'd never sold her tbh.

[@barryhumphriesinc.broughto3098]

I have only once driven a Stag, and that was a 2500cc Six conversion. It was superb in every way, not quite the poke of a PI but good enough, and a pretty good growl also. Missed opportunity indeed.

[@TwinCam]

I'd be really intrigued to drive a Stag, a 2000, and a 2500 PI, all back to back. It would be fascinating to see the different characters of them all.

[@gavinivers8941]

There were a number of car here in New Zealand that were re-engined with either a Rover V8 or Oldsmobile 4400cc V8

[@thatcheapguy525]

@@TwinCam I really hope you get the chance Ed. take my advice and drive them in engine size order or the 2000 is going to feel dead slow. make sure the PI Lucas fuel injection system is working properly because it was a dog (they dropped it for twin carbs for the later 2500S). if the 2000 happens to be a MK1 you'll experience what a step forward the MK2 was in refinement. good luck, I look forward to the look on your face in the video

[@johnburns4017]

@@gavinivers8941 The Triumph V8 was fine if you know the problems and how to fix them.

[@SteveBernard42]

A great presentation. My old dad had a triumph dealership in the sixties and seventies, the Stag was a great car with terrible quality issues. Sorted and properly maintained, they were fine. In the eighties I used a Stag with a 2500S conversion, what a great car! When all said and done, the fact that so many have survived is testament to the love of the concept.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Steve, very kind of you to say 🙂

[@mervwhitney7229]

Thank you Ed. I had an 1850 Dolomite which had the alloy head problem. What a shame the T2500 could not have been produced and developed in competition with the BMW 3 or 5 series. We could have had a modern British vehicle, produced by Triumph but with the legendary reliability and style of the BMW range. Imagine being able to buy a new T2500 with a rust proof body and 21st century build quality.

[@markjones-vx3kp]

As Jeremy Clarkson said it was probably the best car BL conceived but everything else got in the way ,I ve worked on hundreds they were actually put together ok and the shells were built lovely for the time but they have become a legend along with the original XJ6 and quite rightly deserved .

[@Hofferplatz]

I have been waiting for years for you to feature my dream car - and now you did, as always in a great way. Thank you so much! This car deserves a place in the Hall Of Fame of motoring history.

[@philhawley1219]

It would have been good if Ed had taken this beautiful example of a Stag for a drive on the road. A much more pretty car than the contemporary Mercedes SL, but sadly not as well built.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Peter, very kind of you :)

[@markpirateuk]

Also known as the Triumph Snag, due to the engine issues. Back in the 80's, I bought a really nice example that had cooked it's engine, I did what a lot of Stag owners did, fitted a Rover V8. Not only did it make more power, it was way more reliable. I still think it is one of the best looking cars ever made, probably why so many have survived, despite all of the problems!

[@scottishcarenthusiastsandtrain]

A beautiful looking car, there is one near to me just abandoned at the side of the road, and I once did enquire about it at the garage it was parked next to, but alas no luck. A excellent, researched and well presented video as always Ed.

[@RapideWombaticus]

The only way this could have been better, would be to hear that V8. I look forward to all your uploads young man - you do a fantastic job

[@TwinCam]

Thanks 🙂

[@johnclements6852]

Ironically enough, about an hour after I watched the video, I saw one here in Christchurch NZ. The owner said it had the Triumph V8, which was fully sorted, and it was a delight to drive.

[@KiwiCatherineJemma]

Some years ago I saw 2 different KZbin videos, where they repaired and then tested 2 separate Triumph Stags. One video they installed a much larger radiator, I think with electric fans and several other modifications to the cooling system, to solve alleged overheating issues etc. The other video they simply went over a Stag with the original engine and ensured all the parts were in good working order, they installed tiny little temperature sensors in several places ... BLED THE AIR FROM THE COOLING SYSTEM and FILLED IT PROPERLY ...and then tested it. No problems at all. The Triumph Stag with 3 litre v8 engine is one of several cases, (perhaps including the 1990's Rover later model 216 cabrio with the British designed engine?), where the cars came from the factory and dealership and the cooling systems hadn't even been bled and filled up properly. (Although the Rover 216 maybe also had inherent design flaws in the head, head gasket and cooling etc). Extra info, the earlier 1990's years Rover 216 cabrio had the Honda design engine, timing belt and battery on opposite side of engine bay, and those Honda based engines have legendary Honda reliability and long life).

[@fhwolthuis]

Even though the Stag doesn't really appeal to me, I have really enjoyed watching and listening to your excellent story again, Ed. Well done! 👍👍😃

[@TwinCam]

Thanks as always Frank :)

[@alexcharlesworth7580]

The main issue was the cooling system. Mine has a kenlowe fan and high level header tank with low coolant sensor which were both cheap easy mods and it stays lovely and cool. Good to see a balanced video of the car.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Alex :)

[@I999-g2s]

Watched (from afar), my neighbour restore one of these back in the 80’s. It was a beautiful and very unique result.

[@maseraticc2834]

Ed excellent video yet again!! The Stag is one of those cars that still intrigues me today, having been a boy in the 70s and admiring them so much - in period they always looked so exotic and the burbling V8 was a joy. Great research and presentation 10/10 - please keep posting!! 😀👍

[@TwinCam]

Thanks mate, that's very kind of you to say :)

[@mikegalvin9801]

In 1972 my friend got a Stag for graduation. (His folks were semi rich) We had seen Triumph TR6 and Spitfires in the US but this was quite unique. I thought it was beautiful. Tim and I went to different universities and drifted apart as you do at that age. I do remember he went to school in Minnesota which has fierce winters and he recounted having trouble with it in very cold weather even though he garaged it.

[@markkosmin3713]

Thanks Ed for another excellent video. It is such a pleasure to see such a great presentation about such a great car despite the faults. These cars were such head turners and I loved seeing and hearing them go flat out on the roads. Wonderful nostalgia!

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Mark, that's very kind of you to say :)

[@martinclapton2724]

If you talk to long time members of the Stag Owners club they will tell you the car doesn’t need up rated cooling systems to make the car reliable, you just maintain more regularly, what’s already there. Hoses, thermostats, radiator caps etc ; if they are replaced regularly, and perhaps some regular coolant flushing , then the car can run without too many problems. These cars look great and sound great.

[@TwinCam]

Absolutely. Modifications do increase the windows of operation though!

[@mlh4711]

I bought a Stag in the 80's when all around me were buying Golf GTi's, 205's and XR3is. I abslitely loved it and it had the original engine which I must be honest, needed the attention of my mechanic friend fairly regularly. But he did get it running very sweetly and I did enjoy 1 wonderful summer as a Stag owner. I remain a huge fan and would not hesistate to buy another one day. I am a huge Triumph fan though so I am slightly biased 0 but Stags are fantastic cars when they run right.

[@gungadin406]

I believe that the original concept for the Stag was for it to have Fuel Injection fitted. Alas the Mechanical Fuel injection system, the PI system that was first fitted into the TR6 was very, very unreliable, so they instead fitted Twin Strombergs instead. I presume that the twin SU 's that were fitted to the Rover V8's were too tall and would have spoilt the shape of the bonnet. In my opinion the first reliable FI system manufactured was made by bosch, electronic, about 10 years later. I also suspect that inserting an extra set of valves in each cylider may have been too much for the quite long 2x single chain link OHC drives. A Duplex chain(s)would have been much better all round, but that would have meant major alterations. This was a shame. I found it best to replace the chains every 5,000 or three years. The car can still just about achieve, 120 without worrying about the chains snapping if you do this. There is no problem with the water pump, when the Radiator cores are increased to 4 cores instead of three. Coupled with using modern Anti freeze all year round. An electric fan although not original with electronic ignition is in my opinion a good improvement. The so called water leak problems after re- fitting the heads is not really a problem if you actually tighten the heads and inlet manifold properly.

[@TwinCam]

It certainly wouldn’t surprise me. I’d be really intrigued to see how a Stag would have been with a proper, maybe Bosch, fuel injection system.

[@bmwnasher]

It was the radiator, they do an upgraded version. Great car actually.

[@TwinCam]

Yes, bigger radiators are certainly a help. That said, I'm led to believe a simple radiator swap is more of a cure for the symptoms than the problem?

[@bmwnasher]

@@TwinCam I had a friend with a Stag in the 70s he had no problems, I had s Dolomite sprint, no problems, lucky or what.

[@KiwiCatherineJemma]

@@TwinCam Some years ago I saw 2 different KZbin videos, where they repaired and then tested 2 separate Triumph Stags. One video they installed a much larger radiator, I think with electric fans and several other modifications to the cooling system, to solve alleged overheating issues etc. The other video they simply went over a Stag with the original engine and ensured all the parts were in good working order, they installed tiny little temperature sensors in several places ... BLED THE AIR FROM THE COOLING SYSTEM and FILLED IT PROPERLY ...and then tested it. No problems at all. The Triumph Stag with 3 litre v8 engine is one of several cases, (perhaps including the 1990's Rover later model 216 cabrio with the British designed engine?), where the cars came from the factory and dealership and the cooling systems hadn't even been bled and filled up properly. (Although the Rover 216 maybe also had inherent design flaws in the head, head gasket and cooling etc). Extra info, the earlier 1990's years Rover 216 cabrio had the Honda design engine, timing belt and battery on opposite side of engine bay, and those Honda based engines have legendary Honda reliability and long life).

[@leonruthcooke2959]

Excellent summary, I had my Mk2 in the early 80's and now drive a Mk1 Stag, an enjoyable drive all round.

[@deepwinter77]

When I was a kid about 35 years ago, my neighbour had a red Triumph Stag, we loved the look of it, I remember it had an overdrive switch on the top of the gear shifter. I also recall the seat belts were fucked he had some sort of clip to stop them spooling in because once they did it was a nightmare to get them back out again. He gave out to me for messing with the clip lol. That's what I remember from my neighbours Stag as idk maybe 8 to 12 years old. He had cool motorbikes and cars until they started having kids lol. Mr O'Kelly 😂 nostalgia is getting me.

[@davidcooke3811]

Had a '71 mark 1. It was all original. Had a few issues (the salesman wasn't all that truthful about the cars condition). It's engine and chassis numbers indicated it was a very early model. We ran as it was for a year or so but experienced some issues. Within that first year we took it to a triumph specialist who ended up rebuilding the engine, replacing all the wings and respraying it with a handsome custom metallic purple. After the rebuild it ran beautifully, all stock apart from the colour. The build cost as much as the car cost to buy but we had the funds and it was worth doing to keep it on the road as a great example of it's type. We ended up selling it as circumstances didn't give us the opportunity to use it much. We were running a pub and paying storage costs. Ultimately somebody saw it in the storage unit (a renowned Jaguar E type restoring company) and made us an offer we couldn't sensibly turn down. With some regret and sadness we let it go. It's still on the road, I know, I've seen it, a bit heart breaking when it passed us by. It was a joy to drive and own and but hell heck, nothing lasts forever. Or does it? Upside is we've still got a 1966 Triumph Thunderbird motorcycle. That's a different story!

[@terryroxburgh3276]

One of the 9000 left is sat in my garage, but it is not mine unfortunately. It's in lovely condition and was fully restored recently. I did have a 2000 pi back in '81 which was a nice drive, if a costly one!

[@LostsTVandRadio]

One of the most beautiful cars ever.

[@michaelbarlow3686]

Hi Ed and thanks for another well presented excellent video. I had the silky smooth MK 2 Triumph 2000 which was a lovely car. I did seriously hanker after a Stag but everyone advised against and at that time BL dealers were awful. Still I might have one oneday

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Michael :) I'd say do it! Life's too short!

[@msix1836]

Hi, I just wish to say the word Twin-Cam, or DOHC always spells magic. Back in the 70s where 99% of the American cars were fitted with v8, some v6 OHV engines. I had much pleasure of owning a used Jensen Healy convertible, though always had tiny problems here and there, it certainly drew lots of attention, I mean even experienced mechanics would raise different questions. Not to mention the curiosity of foxy chicks😎 In short, I kinda got accustomed to explaining what Twin-cam engine stands for and how it differs from Overhead Valve counterparts. Sometimes I had to go further in explaining how advanced of a four valves per cylinder engine is over the conventional 2 valves @cylinder. Most people were also confused how come the car was equipped with dual carburetors as opposed to using just one big 4-barrels carb. Well, all the ‘lecturing’ was fun and I made lots of friends. Thank you for sharing with us all the fond memories of older cars, very informative and interesting. Cheers…🥃

[@davidpeters6536]

Another great video this time on on a car I always wanted but never owned. My Dad, at my insistence, bought a Mk2 2000 and another when its mileage got high with trips to the Costa del Sol. I learned to drive in it and my mother's A40 Farina.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks David 🙂

[@gutsandbrains6310]

It is not a failure, the people behind let this beautiful stag down

[@KiwiCatherineJemma]

Some years ago I saw 2 different KZbin videos, where they repaired and then tested 2 separate Triumph Stags. One video they installed a much larger radiator, I think with electric fans and several other modifications to the cooling system, to solve alleged overheating issues etc. The other video they simply went over a Stag with the original engine and ensured all the parts were in good working order, they installed tiny little temperature sensors in several places ... BLED THE AIR FROM THE COOLING SYSTEM and FILLED IT PROPERLY ...and then tested it. No problems at all. The Triumph Stag with 3 litre v8 engine is one of several cases, (perhaps including the 1990's Rover later model 216 cabrio with the British designed engine?), where the cars came from the factory and dealership and the cooling systems hadn't even been bled and filled up properly. (Although the Rover 216 maybe also had inherent design flaws in the head, head gasket and cooling etc). Extra info, the earlier 1990's years Rover 216 cabrio had the Honda design engine, timing belt and battery on opposite side of engine bay, and those Honda based engines have legendary Honda reliability and long life).

[@neilpickup237]

A friends mother had a Stag from new back in the 70s. On the advice of 'someone in the know', it was properly serviced, and more importantly, the cooling system flushed. She never had a moments trouble with it.

[@julian4548]

Really looks great in that colour I owned the last sold new in Nz. Eventually sold it, buying it back 25 years later. Full history etc. bare metal rebuild and sold it again a couple of years ago for possibly the highest price for one in NZ. They sound fantastic but are fairly gutless even with a Weber card and headers as I fitted.

[@julian4548]

I should add a remarkably accurate and comprehensive video thanks.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Julian 🙂

[@stevesalvage1089]

Yes we had them in the garages for maintenance no problem at all , the only car out of hundreds we drove was a delight to drive , most stags today are well sorted with all the stories put to rest , a fine beautiful vehicle in many ways ,

[@iancross4631]

What a great film. Wonderful cars with the best wheels from British Leyland, I can think of another troubled car that looks great with those alloys!

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Ian, I do too 👀🤩

[@michaeltutty1540]

Very interesting, Ed. A great lesson about a car I have long been aware of and curious about. I've only seen one or two in person, and lived the design. Beautiful cars indeed, but it is a shame about that roll bar structure. Still, a beautiful car no matter what.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks as always Michael :)

[@stevieinselby]

The Triumphs of the 1970s were - visually at least, triumphs. The Dolomite, 2000 Mk2 and Stag were some of the best looking cars of the era, arguably of any era.

[@TwinCam]

Hard agree. Spectacular looking cars, especially the Dolomite in my view, which I think is one of the best looking saloon cars of all time.

[@johnburns4017]

@@TwinCam Dolomite? It never sold at the time because of its looks. BMWs were nicer to the eye. The Dolomite was a reworked 1300 (the Ajax) in looks.

[@TwinCam]

@johnburns4017 The Dolomite was consistently in the top 10 best selling cars in Britain. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that they didn’t sell.

[@johnburns4017]

@@TwinCam The BMWs sold in many countries and in volume, unlike the Dolomite, which was mainly limited to the UK market. I know many who shied away from it because of its dowdy granddad like (1300) looks, to other Continental makes and models. Great engine on the _Sprint_ though. The Sprint was ahead of its time for a short while. The uprated design was far better but never went into production.

[@Andy_Ross1962]

Wheeler Dealers did a good stag restoration. They fixed the cooling problems with third party replacement parts designed for the job.

[@triumphstagdriver]

The WD crew fixed a problem that did not exist in the car they were working on...

[@gar6446]

Had a good 9 year old one, ran it for a year, had no problems, and sold it for a nice profit. Strangely, the fact that they were troublesome but beautiful meant lots of specialists and parts were available and seemingly still are. That roof was heavy and hard to store, so it rarely came off. The original engine could be sorted for the overheating problems, the dizzy was problematic, and the rust could easily grab hold mostly unseen. Loved the engine sound, but every trip was a worry that something catastrophic might happen. Not particularly fast, but a nice sunny Sunday run out car with that exhaust burble is hard to beat. Saw one the other day, and by today's standards, it's surprisingly small. Always thought the airbox and cam covers were ugly.

[@Andy_Ross1962]

@@triumphstagdriver Back then on WD the point was to show the viewers how to do actual, practical work on whichever car they were featuring in the episode. Stag overheating is a well known problem so showing how it can be fixed, and making sure that theirs wouldn't have the problem in the future was a good thing.

[@peterthwaites5891]

The Stag was such a wonderful failure.. Thanks once again for a brilliantly produced and researched video..

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Peter 🙂

[@eternalextrapolations]

The British car industry, and thus Britain would be so much better today if it had done what it needed to do to succeed in America.

[@philnewstead5388]

I think they would have been better nurturing the markets in Australia and NZ and Africa. By this time the Americans wanted very different cars to those being produced in Europe. I remember going on a factory course for the Rover Sterling and the guy there said that BL had invested more money in trying to get a foothold in the states from about 1970 than they ever got back and he questioned the wisdom of trying to market the Sterling there and he was ultimately proved right.

[@eternalextrapolations]

@@philnewstead5388 That's a good point that they should have taken care of the Australian, NZ, and African markets, but it should have been as well as the US. If they got it right in the US, then the halo effect would have made marketing success in the rest of the world easy. In fact, they could have done well in Japan, who had a huge reverence for the caché of what they perceived as British luxury and style. They actually could have taken some of Honda's own customers in Japan, because there's a lot of people there who want to be seen in something different, and certain European styles are very fashionable there. The Rover Sterling/800 being the Honda Legend with slightly different exterior styling should have been a success, because the Legend was, but bizarrely there were odd electrical issues. If the details had been paid attention to, with some good old fashioned British fastidiousness, that little extra effort would have paid huge dividends.

[@TwinCam]

I think that, while the US market could have been exceptionally lucrative, I think the time they spent on it was never worth it. As Phil said, Americans wanted very different things out of their cars, and with British manufacturing in the condition it was as well as the economies they were operating in, I think a step back should have been taken, and they should have concentrated on Europe and the Commonwealth first and foremost. Imagine if the money spent on the TR7 had been redirected towards redeveloping the Slant-Four and developing the Maestro/Montego.

[@chrisspain7776]

I have run Stags for about 30 years, and never had problems with timing chains, nor with the position of the water pump which is well below the top level of coolant. However I do recommend that the silly Mk2 'suck and blow' expansion bottle be replace with a high level header tank as this keeps it well topped up automatically.

[@TwinCam]

I'm led to believe that timing chain issues only happened on very early cars?

[@chrisspain7776]

@@TwinCam I have not heard much about this problem so perhaps it was a temporary issue.

[@TwinCam]

Quite possibly. I found it from a very reliable source, so it must have a truth somewhere, but I hadn’t heard it either before my research!

[@alexcharlesworth7580]

I think the problem is that the chains are very long and single link chains so prone to stretching but I think regular oil changes and good maintenance will make them last. I have also fitted the high level header tank conversion which is very easy to do. Gives you peace of mind with the extra coolant reserve.

[@chrisspain7776]

@@alexcharlesworth7580 Any stretch of the chains is automatically taken up by the hydraulic tensioners. Chain life is often said to be 25,000 miles which is almost 10 years for most classic owners on limited mile policies. However higher quality chains are said to last for twice that mileage!

[@jrushen4235]

Another brilliant well researched and fair review. I think the problem with the British is they can't get over the hokey cokey which leads to so much indecision.

[@TwinCam]

The British motor industry is a very funny thing. Sometimes they sat twiddling their thumbs like with the Stag, but with other cars like the Triumph 2000 and Mini, they developed them at breakneck speeds!

[@triumphstagdriver]

Well made video with good research such as mentioning the modular engine rather than parroting the 2 Dolly engines welded together story. Engine design itself wasn’t bad, but the execution was. A common myth is the water pump is mounted too high but when compared to contemporary engine designs one can see it is at the same height. It can suffer from insufficiently hardened shafts, which again is a quality issue rather than a design issue. Power was stunted primarily due to the incredibly restrictive inlet manifold. Making a 32v V8 was going to be a huge step too far for Triumph who were always strapped for cash. It meant finding a way to reverse the rotation of the right hand camshaft. Fitting a Rover V8 was not just an easy swap. Due to engine weights and characteristics it would have meant redesigning the suspension and gear ratios. Spot on regarding the fact Rover production would not meet demand. They are wonderful cars when sorted.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks mate :) The idea of them welding together two Slant-Fours irks me to no end. It's the kind of thing only someone who's never spent any time around cars would believe. I was led to believe that the water pump was part of the Slant/V8s problems due to Saab having changed it? However, they eventually redesigned most of the engine to be fair! A 32 valve of course would have been possible, but as you say, the budget was always to blame. It's an interesting thought though, especially if BL would have saved money by not developing some other projects. The Rover V8 point is an important one. I didn't want to go into it too deeply as I felt it would just centre the narrative of the whole video. Boy was I not expecting such Rover-centred comments! Anyway, yes as you say the overhead valves gave it a totally different character for starters, which had it been available to them would have only slowed down development even more than it already had been.

[@triumphstagdriver]

@TwinCam Your mention of Saab means you know there is a connection beyond just that Saab used the slant 4. It is said that Saab requested the location of the water pump as their application is in reverse, i.e. the 'front' of the engine is toward the firewall. Having as little as possible mounted on the front meant it could save a bit of space. Indeed, Saab did later redesign a lot. It is also said that they requested the angled head studs, but that could just as easily been Triumphs doing. Reason behind that was so the heads could be fully built up with valve clearances set on the bench. Interestingly, one hears a lot regarding the water pumps in Stags but those same stories we don't hear from Dolomites or Saabs while they have the same design.... As for Rover engines...they were a popular conversion but nowadays they command a lower value than original engined cars. Many are being converted back too. Rover V8s have their own issues - there is a reason Buick and consorts gave up on it so soon.

[@TwinCam]

@triumphstagdriver Ah I didn’t know Saab had any say whatsoever in its development. I was under the impression they merely licensed it!

[@triumphstagdriver]

@TwinCam from what I understand is Riccardo Engineering was approached by Saab when looking for a new engine to replace the V4. Riccardo put them in touch with Triumph. How much influence Riccardo had in the design is up for debate. Some say there was none others say there was some. The same can be said regarding Saabs influence.

[@TwinCam]

@triumphstagdriver Yes, from the research I’ve done, Ricardo put them in touch, but the engine was all Triumph’s work and Triumph’s specifications. Happy to be corrected though. Someone must have written a book! 😅

[@SimonGreenway-ih8lh]

I have a 1976 Stag that I bought in 2001 as a non runner. I did get the engine to run but I did not sound good So I replaced with a 3.9 Rover V8 which is the engine I should have had in the first place. The purists will tell you that this has compromised its originality but somehow I wonder.

[@TwinCam]

I'm led to believe that the ones with the Triumph engines are worth more, but that's understandable from a sales perspective. While the Rover V8 undoubtedly has a different character, I can imagine it would suit the waftiness thing quite nicely.

[@EtonieE25]

Simon how do you find the chassis and handling with the 3.9?? Any modifications?

[@SimonGreenway-ih8lh]

If anything a little better than with the Triumph engine as I think the Rover unit is a little lighter. the only modifications are a Holly carb and a Kenlow fan not that cooling was a issue it just makes things quitter@@EtonieE25

[@jonboy9912]

There are a lot of Rover V8 conversions out there making this a great weekend indulgence if you can afford one because those cars especially have skyrocketed in price. The unconverted motors can be fixed with a specialist radiator and cooling fans. Customer ignorance and lack of basic maintenance caused many of the troubles not least of which was overheating that led to the warping of the head. A Rover engine in the Stag from the outset would have been a great success. I owned a 2000TC in the late 70's as a 24 year old, the similarities in design were obvious, but reliability issues persuaded me from buying the Stag. That said the 2000TC was a great car.

[@TwinCam]

You're absolutely right regarding customer ignorance. The '70s were the era when people filled radiators up with plain water!

[@davidmagen415]

In the 70 s I would see one of these every so often. While I don’t think I drove back then I always thought WOW what a sharp car. It’s never to be but I can still look and dream 🏖️

[@grayfool]

One of the great examples of how not to do something. BL were so good at that. I well remember the used car trade of the time running away from the stag. Nobody would dare to touch one with a barge pole at the time. Amazing that so many hve survived. Has anyone fitted a later big bore Rover V8 in the front of a Stag? That would be fun.

[@TwinCam]

Possibly, but the vast, vast majority retain their original engines. They’re much more valuable with the Triumph engine.

[@grayfool]

@@TwinCam of course, would still be fun though.

[@TwinCam]

Yeah absolutely, especially with a later 4.6 injected engine. Imagine the pulling power!

[@andrewchalsma]

Great video. I can't get past the t-bar, but it would be a lovely place to sit for a long drive.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Andrew :)

[@gavinivers8941]

Its amazing the total incompetence of the senior management at BL.

[@mikep4566]

Tragic! If only Triumph had swallowed their pride and gone for the "Rover" V8 they might still be around today.

[@TwinCam]

The problem is that the Rover V8 could only have been available to them after the Stag fell flat on its face in the US. I don’t think it could have recovered from there, no matter the engine.

[@mikep4566]

@@TwinCam Yeah, I guess there's always a reason for these things. It's just a shame that that V8 powered Rovers, Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Triumph's own TR8, Morgans and TVRs yet couldn't save the Stag. If only...

[@TwinCam]

Indeed. Those cars came along later though, all after the Stag had been discontinued.

[@Canalsman]

I bought an early mark one Stag secondhand in South Africa in 1977. I think it was the only one in the country. Being unaware of the reliability problems in the UK I just used it as my daily driver. During the 5 years that I owned it the car covered many thousands of miles all round South Africa. Despite use on dirt roads, high temperatures, and towing a caravan over hundreds of miles at at time on family holidays it only had one mechanical problem. A top hose split and it lost coolant. The engine overheated to a degree but after the hose and coolant was replaced it ran perfectly. No damage done. It was a great car, sold at a profit after my ownership. In my experience the problems with reliability appear to have been over-hyped. Not untypical in the days when British car bashing was something of a national pastime!

[@dungareesareforfools]

I honestly think that these are one of the best sounding cars ever made.

[@5rgs17]

The Stag Owners Club likes to proclaim itself the largest single-model club in the world says a lot about the ardent support..

[@seanhershey3390]

Such a cool car..rare in the US..a neighbor had one

[@billdyke9745]

Has been top of my wish list for close to fifty years. (With a Buick V8 swapped in of course)... Excellent video, young sir. 👍

[@TwinCam]

Thank you 🙂

[@kennedysingh3916]

I remember them well as a child as a number of them were sold in Jamaica and a few are still around.

[@Low760]

I use one that says "not for climbing for my keys. Definitely handy.

[@tombankwel4822]

I AM a triumph mecahnic, the stag a stunning super beautiful sportscar, with the 3,5 ltr v8 from buick and rover the stag is uniqie

[@TheSeafordian]

Your spelling is unique too.

[@davidstuart4915]

hmmmm, no 3.5 v8 in the Stag mr mechanic

[@tombankwel4822]

@@davidstuart4915 there is also a triumph tr 8 3,5 ltr v8 from buick

[@davidstuart4915]

there kinda was a TR8 but no Leyland 3.5 Stag @@tombankwel4822

[@AbbieHoffmansGhost]

So, my friend/acquaintance Jeff had one in 1971/72. I was with him at a sub shop before going to another friend's party about a mile away. But he wouldn't give me a lift in it because I had a meatball sub, wrapped in tin foil, then taped paper, and in a paper bag. Said he didn't want to get any food spilled in it. Eh, no biggie, a 15 minute walk on a nice evening. So, sometime later, could have been months or maybe a year or two, the head warped. It still ran but the head gasket was no longer doing its job. So what did he do? He found a Mercedes 6.3 at a local dealer and brought the Stag in to be traded for it and snuck it by them and drove away laughing. Nice guy. He eventually became the pedal steel player for a major country star and was on that star's albums, maybe 4 or 5 of them, and then got canned. Right Jeff?

[@TwinCam]

A 6.3! That must have been mega expensive versus the Stag!

[@AbbieHoffmansGhost]

Not sure. I never saw Jeff again after that. @@TwinCam

[@mikaeljakobsson8288]

The 4-cylinder version of this engine was first used in the SAAB 99. SAAB had to put a lot of work to fix the teething problems on the Triumph engine, and finally started their own production.

[@TwinCam]

Indeed. I’m planning a video all about the Slant-Four and V8. In fact, I recorded a section of it on the day I recorded this video!

[@Grahamvfr]

At the time (late 70s),i had a choice, buy a stag or get engaged.. Guess what this idiot did. At least I got a 'Stag' do.. Groan!!!

[@craigme2583]

Beautiful history lesson, but I thought they cracked blocks if pushed hard. I wish you would drive cars and discuss handling balance gears etc. Its only half a review really. Id love one...

[@TwinCam]

I’d love to, if I legally could.

[@lib556]

The Stag came up briefly in our Brit car club discussion. Some of the fellas dismissed it as ugly. I was a bit stunned. Is it just me, I thought. I'm relieved to see that others like it like I do. I'd love to have one (as long as its quirks were ironed out). Not being very mechanically inclined, I assumed retrofitting a Rover V8 would be the solution. Looking at some of the comments here, that would seem to not be the best solution. Anyway, Bond drove one in Diamonds Are Forever... that's got to count for something.

[@Sports38007]

Thanks Ed...another erudite and enjoyable video. Please keep these coming!

[@TwinCam]

Thanks mate :)

[@Sports38007]

Only last week I was chatting to a local Stag owner here in Tasmania about his 75 Stag, so your video was very topical. I remember the ads for the Stag in the Australian car magazines in the late 70's. They were sold alongside the 2500TC & 2500S up until about 78. I think the TR7 would have been the final Triumph sold in Australia (maybe in 81).

[@TwoGuysandaRide]

Another fun and informative video. Keep up the good work

[@TwinCam]

Thanks mate 🙂

[@zingystardust4082]

My maths teacher had a Stag, a purple one. She drove it with the top down as often as possible.

[@MGman100]

Stunning car, especially in that colour. I've always fancied one of these.

[@mw8653]

Bit of looker in my book and still looks good, I'd happily drive one now.

[@michaelhasse2568]

According to Jeremy Clarksons documentary they should have used the engine they bought from Buick.

[@TwinCam]

Clarkson also said the Triumph V8 was a bodge from two Slant-Fours. His old shows were entertainment, not information.

[@Andy_Ross1962]

All very well but Clarkson is a cock. He thinks the engine is made from two four cylinder engines.

[@fairmont___d]

Clarkson never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[@sgoody1]

Super informative review. Would have liked to see it in action.

[@davebarron5939]

Great stuff, love the Stag, sad how it turned out, so often car company Bureaucrats cant see the forest for the trees, and great designs are wasted. Thanks.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Dave :)

[@plym1969]

A wonderful review of a British classic. Marvellous! 🙂

[@TwinCam]

Thanks mate :)

[@charliewheadon8433]

Your last 2 minutes were spot on my stag has done 78000 miles with nothing more than oil changes and good regular maintenance I'm afraid the factor and product was awful I rebuild the v8 meticulous cleaning all the old sand left from casting, torqued probably and set up correctly it still shows no sign of the higher mileage it has achieved I have recently fitted new drive shafts which in my opinion are the worst part on the stag

[@ConradNeill]

04:55 Is that a Raleigh Chopper in the background? Surely that deserves its own video.

[@TwinCam]

It certainly is - a Mk1 as well. Unfortunately, that kind of thing really isn't for me! A cycling channel I'm sure would jump at it though!

[@davefrench3608]

Always loved the Stag, such a beautiful car. Interesting about the manufacturing capacity of the Rover V8, not come across that one before. I met a young chap about 45 years ago who liked stealing cars, his favourite was the Stag.

[@TwinCam]

Rover at the time were struggling to keep up with demand for V8s in the Rover P5, P6, and Range Rover. The BL overlords insisted on a V8 MG B, which ended up with waiting lists as Rover simply didn’t have the capacity. If the Stag had been added to that, production of the much more important Rovers would have been adversely affected!

[@davefrench3608]

Makes perfect sense. But still a shame that the Stag wasn’t the success it deserved to be.

[@johnburns4017]

@@TwinCam All they needed to do was make the engine plant bigger. Or new super modern plant.

[@djtaylorutube]

I wouldn't mind starting mine but the auto gearbox inhibit switch is saying NO. The nearside door that gives access is up against the garage door, meaning i'd need to transform into an olympic gymnastic level contortionist to get at it. Too cold outside for such larks right now :)

[@phils866]

I've always had a soft spot for the Stag, ever since one of my primary school teachers drove one. Yet another 'If only', from the British car industry. The Rover V8 would have been a perfect fit, bar politics, and as TVR showed, could be persuaded to produce significantly more power, easily on a par with most Mustangs. I do agree about the noise...the Triumph V8 has a lovely woofle to it. I wonder has anyone ever fitted the Rover V8 into one? Edit: Just read a previous post from some one who vitted Rover V8s into a few. Surprisingly, to me anyway, he claims they weren't a better conversion.

[@alexcharlesworth7580]

I think the rover engine was a different weight and could negatively affected handling without the correct suspension adjustments. It was a common conversion back in the day, along with ford v6's and triumphs own straight 6. A lot of people nowadays are converting them back to original triumph v8's for originality.

[@TheManFrayBentos]

I knew of more than a couple retro-fitted with the boatanchor Essex V6 and the Rover V8.

[@mr.145]

I had a 71 2.5 fuel injected Triumph estate 16mpg. Now have 2016 Passat estate, nearly 70mpg

[@stevieb9699]

Another belting feature TC, Loved the Stag back in the day, but way out of my price range. (even more so now!!)

[@TwinCam]

Thanks mate :)

[@waynemeakin]

The Stag. My most favourite car. Ever.

[@shankarbalan3813]

Very good presentation as always. How terribly ego and politics ruins things. BL is the perfect example.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks as always mate :)

[@admiralbeez8143]

Britain has made five V-8 postwar auto engines from: Triumph, Rover, Daimler, Rolls Royce and Aston Martin. There’s also Jaguar’s V-8 developed by Ford. I think Triumph just needed to wait and perfect the Stag’s engine or swap in the Rover V-8 and the car would have been a winner. It’s better to wait and get it right. I personally like the Daimler V-8.

[@davidcooks5265]

Of always thought these are a nice looking car's! Shame about the overheating problems

[@chrisspain7776]

The lack of a high level coolant tank was mostly responsible for coolant running too low and then overheating the engine. The answer was simple; fit a high level coolant header tank!

[@tricialyn4645]

This was muchness enjoyable. Well made too...the video I mean but the car is lovely to look at too and I like the colour!! I didnt know it was the sports car...it certainly looks like one. I dont know what sonerous means but I will look it up! TY for sharing your knowledge 🚘🚗🚘

[@TwinCam]

Thanks 🙂

[@eternalextrapolations]

Sonorous is one of those onomatopoeiac words like tappets. It sounds like what it is, but one sounds good and the other doesn't!

[@tricialyn4645]

@@eternalextrapolations Id need to look up the bigger word here now haha Dont cars have tappets

[@eternalextrapolations]

@@tricialyn4645 Yes those ticking things in cylinder heads that only make a noise when there's a problem 😅 Well, I hope you have no sonorous issues with your car, and have an onomatopoeiac day!

[@tricialyn4645]

@@eternalextrapolations I get the bus!

[@stevemundie8495]

My wife has had one these for 20+ years - drives it VERY regularly - always starts 1st go. Can you think of a better car for a lady? Sure it's NOT a racing car BUT goes fine and looks elegant - I really can't workout why they aren't worth A LOT more and "yes" it's SUPER reliable.

[@jeremyaustin9103]

Really nice video. These are lovely cars that sound lovely. The engines can be fiddled with to have much more poke. A sporty GT... The engine is very unlike the River V8 as it likes revs. Maybe one of your subscribers has a sorted one that you could review. This is the only BL product I would have.

[@TwinCam]

Thanks Jeremy 🙂 That’ll be the overhead camshafts!

[@jeremyaustin9103]

@@TwinCam Absolutely as well as the combustion chamber shape, and stroke length, fuelling and exhaust. As an i6 fan too, these engines are quite special. (when they work) The only other V8 that revs like this is the Merc M119 engine, and those are a powerhouse and unburstable. Ive tried.

[@TwinCam]

Yes absolutely. Amazing what only a few millimetres of stroke can do to an engine’s character.

[@phuketexplorer]

I Blame Mr Fitton, my next door neighbour at the time. He was on the design team for the engine. 😄

[@robstammers7149]

As much as I admire the looks of the Triumph Stag, I decided to buy a Rover 75, mint contion, I loved the 75, but the Club edition had a dodgy engine too, pity, I felt like a million dollars driving it. Looking a little like a Jag/BMW (to me anyway), with luxury interiors. The Rover 75 in other marques has survived well, and I still see plenty on the road today (said with envy). Great video, I'd forgotten about the Triumph Models. Regards Rob.

[@TwinCam]

The 75 is a spectacularly pretty car.

[@tvdinner325]

I had one, and swapped the engine for a Rover 3.5. It was perfect.

[@chrisslater3174]

Could be the perfect restomod project - already has the style, just not the underpinnings.

[@TwinCam]

The underpinnings were fine - hence why they’re still so often seen.

[@chrisslater3174]

Underpinnings includes engine and running gear, ie what you do not see, but what makes a car go. You already established the poorly performing V8 and made mention that, despite the 'aggressive' styling, this was no sports car. Could have been so much better.

[@chrisslater3174]

PS I can't help but still like them, either! 😁

[@TwinCam]

@chrisslater3174 As I also say, the engine was fine for what it was designed to do. It wasn’t designed to ever be a sports car. It was designed to burble about in comfort and style.

[@philipwardle6820]

Hi Ed, a factor in not adopting the Rover V8 may be that when the Stag was introduced the American consumer was sceptical about all-alloy engines. So this may have been, at least in part, a decision influenced by marketing considerations.given that the car was targetted at this market where Triumph had experienced good sales.

[@TwinCam]

I really don’t think that was the case. Although Buick rejected it in 1963, by the early ‘70s all the American manufacturers were again building aluminium engines. Plus, the build material of an engine is a heck of a lot less important than its reliability!

[@philipwardle6820]

@@TwinCam Fair enough - just passing on what I've been told