The Truth about AH (as in "cat") before N/M + a Hack to Make AH More Easily in American English

[@williamrodriguez8031]

Something like this is just exactly what we needed, I've seen many videos over this sound but most of those videos do not tell us all of these important-to-know details. Thanks for your hard work and bringing us such a useful and valuable content.

[@finn6981]

I feel like this also happens in words like found and sound, but theres no uh sound after and it's a bit more subtle

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

Which part? The raising/tensing? The slight nasalization happens bc of the N (though it's possible to do it without, which is something I forgot to mention, but is common anyway)

[@finn6981]

@@NativeEnglishHacks we raising our AH to a warped eh sound, the first vowel of the dipthong sounds more like an Eh when theres a nasal consonant after.

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

I see. Well, the AH vowel isn't part of the OW and you definitely shouldn't be producing an EH sound at all in it, so not sure what's going on with that

[@finn6981]

@@NativeEnglishHacks OW doesn't have the AH vowel, it's a bit different, but for some reason it still changes into this sorta eh sound to me, but it's very subtle.

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

I can't imagine that. If I try to do even a little bit of EH, it sounds very strange. It might be the lazy AH that you're hearing. If I do that, it just feels and sounds like a lazy/kinda reduced way of doing the start of the diphthong. I think some speakers might use AH or something close to it instead of the normal start of the diphthong, but it's not supposed to be that way, meaning that it could be a form of reduction or something, especially in faster speech. I'll mull this over in the back of my mind and see if I notice it from natives. Could be another hack 🙂

[@laracroftvideos]

Omg omg one of the biggest mysteries in the ESL/EFL world *demystified* !!! First of all, you did an *INCREDIBLE* job. Congratz on a fabulous lesson and a very exhaustive one I might add! (didn't expect you to include the raising concept as well). This definitely warrants a YAAASSSSSSSS-ssə from me. 😄 I watched the video multiple times since the premiere because I wanted to make sure I won't miss any important piece of info. I got a couple of recapitulative questions and points just to double check whether I'm getting the entire ins and outs of the logic. 1) EH + UH (aka in IPA: /ɛə/) is 'acceptable' for man, ham & dance-type of words but only in fluid speech at conversational speed during which it would go largely unnoticed by other people. If one were to stress these words and still retain that particular diphthong it might start raising eyebrows... But using 'eh+uh' for ordinary 4th vowel words like cat, hacks, or tap (conversational speed, with no special emphasis on said words) isn't passable? 2) 1:53 "AH is AH, *regardless of where it is*." --> I agree, although all ESL students are bound to find out there are some very specific cases where AH isn't AH due to the fact most of us had been taught to rely on dictionaries + the IPA and those unfortunately follow the outdated conventions like maintaining AH before R (marry/Mary, carry, Harry [which all use AIR for most contemporary humans 😀]) or before the NG sound (hang, rang, thank [which use EI in your accent]). I totally see why you left those cases out, so don't mind my nitpicking. Also, there's the rare exception of "catch" which some speakers pronounce as ketch (EH) 😇😇 3) 2:06 this concept is not only groundbreaking but it is an icon, a legend, and *the* moment. Really really excited for a lesson centered just around that because it's something no other teacher besides you sheds light on; it's as if it's assumed that that particular state of the vowel is something an ESL student naturally arrives at after acquiring the canonical version of AH, but it didn't really happen for me, personally. 2:32 love the direct comparison! Imo, it's almost like a vowel equivalent of the dental T,D replacement of the TH in that it's pretty essential in terms of speeding up one's speech and making one sound more natural/fluent. 4) 3:18 You wouldn't even have to argue, this *IS* exactly what's going on! /ɛə/ is only the half of the entire story, but many dialect coaches/phoneticians would go the extra mile and add a special IPA diacritic to the EH /ɛ/ vowel which looks like this --> ◌̞ (ignore the circle) so you'd get /̞ɛə/ which literally means EH lowered in the direction of AH followed by the schwa--meaning the transcribed vowel is between EH and AH on the vowel chart, meaning this is the lazy AH you've discovered!! /end of IPA talk #BoycottTheIPA 5) I just remembered one Rachel's English video ( watch?v=ofCSzej9XqA ) where she talks about the word "ham" and says it in two different ways to demonstrate a point. The first one uses the more open AH she'd use in a word like "bat," and the second has more of a gliding quality to it (you can reaaallyy notice that when she extends the vowel) --> (1:15 vs. 1:18 + 1:24). I guess I'd just like to know which of the two sounds more natural to YOU (the more open one without the gliding or the latter?). Because they both sound kinda odd to me. Btw, thought you'd find it interesting to hear that, in the same video, Rachel agrees with you on the AH before NG situation (1:52 - 2:10), this is exactly what you're teaching and she's doing it even as a native speaker who was raised on the East Coast!

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

Quite the essay, as always lol. Wouldn't have it any other way :) First, I have to mention, please check your Patreon. I have a somewhat time-sensitive message there for you. 1) Correct. It's something that *can* happen in normal/fast speech, but I wouldn't say it's *the* pronunciation and using it *without* the N/M after doesn't work 2) For speakers who still use the R-colored AH, that's fine. But in this case, I wouldn't say AH is AH because it's R-colored. It starts in AH, but just like AWR starts in AW, I count these as two completely separate things because there's an immediate blending. So AHR doesn't count regardless. And before NG, for the speakers who use it, that's fine, but since in the way that I speak and teach the AH literally doesn't even exist there, it doesn't count. That's partly why I didn't include these uses of AH. But AH before N/M does exist as AH and is a pure sound (monophthong) whether lazy or not (a bit of schwa slipping in is incidental and not needed). So AH is AH, regardless of what comes after it (the R after it in AHR makes it a diphthong instead of a pure AH and NG after it changes it to EI, even if not all speakers do so). "Catch" is another example of a sound that has changed for many speakers, meaning that for those speakers (such as myself), it's not even AH, so that also doesn't count. It's EH. 3&4) It really doesn't seem all that amazing to me, but I get it lol. Comparing the lazy AH to the dental T/D version of the TH is interesting and I think it works from a speed/fluidity perspective, for sure! As for all the nonsense about /̞ɛə/... This seems so backwards to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but I call it the "lazy AH" because it very clearly still sounds like an AH sound to me. Maybe there are speakers who do this /̞ɛə/ whatever garbage, but I would never in a million years thing to describe/transcribe things this way. I do agree that if we were to put it on the vowel chart, it would be between EH and AH (actually immediately under and almost touching EH), but what symbol would be used? The same symbol for AH because that's what it is! This is why I think the concept of ranges is so critical and one of the biggest missing pieces in pronunciation education (at least in American English). Don't worry, I'll fix it! ;) But, indeed, enough of the IPA #BoycottTheIPA 5) The way she does it when trying to use the normal AH before M doesn't even sound like a normal AH. It's something similar, but I don't think she's doing it like she would normally without the N/M. But this is another reason I mention the raising and why the hack is to always use a little raising. If I say "Matt" with some raising, it's sounds perfectly fine. If I try to completely remove the raising from "man", it's actually difficult for me, but it doesn't sound quite like she's doing it (at least I don't think so). I think not using any raising before N/M can sound a bit weird, at least in super enunciated speech, but there's of course also the nasal component, which I very clearly hear Rachel doing (and which, as far as I see, she doesn't even mention). Listening really closely to her normal, isolated, drawn-out AH not before N/M, that also seems slightly off to me. Not something I would notice in the flow of speech for sure, but it might be because of where she's from. It seems there might be a very small shifting in the AH sound, but nowhere near enough to even get close to separating into a new sound. I would still say her normal AH is clearly an AH, just very slightly different. But I will definitely say without a doubt that the addition of the schwa before N/M is in no way necessary to sound American. This is a point where I'm going to very strongly disagree with her. It's something incidental that can happen, whether we use EH, AH, or the lazy AH. Hearing her very intentionally put that schwa in there just sounds so off! As for the NG thing, the fact that she agrees makes me feel even more strongly that it should be taught as EI instead of AH. Nothing wrong with the AHNG version and some natives use it, but EING is easier for most people and to hold up AHNG as the "correct" or "neutral" pronunciation is a bunch of hogwash that needs to be thrown out.

[@Music-uk5dm]

Do you, guys, know anything about the British English (any of its dialects) having the same kind of a "problem" with an AH sound before M/N and changing itself to EI before NG?

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

I don't pay too much attention to the intricacies of British pronunciation. All I know is the British AH sounds British to me. Dayvin might know though 🤔

[@Music-uk5dm]

@@NativeEnglishHacks I'm just guessing whether it is a natural phonetic thing of the English language in general or it is an American feature. It is interesting because I believe the way we talk (pronounce) reflects our nature.

[@Music-uk5dm]

@@NativeEnglishHacks How can you describe the British AH?))

[@danielacastanoabreu8874]

Interesting and useful -as always-, I am going to work on it. And... thanks a lot for the previous live and the corrections, you are such a great teacher!

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

No problem 🙂

[@samiracle9852]

Wow, nasalization blew up my mind again

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

I know, right? *Blew my mind. Blow up means to explode or to fill with air (among other meanings), so that sounds painful haha. It's weird, though, because it should work, but that's not what we say. I think because we have another phrase, "It blew me away", meaning it REALLY surprised/shocked me. So in "blew my mind", it's probably just a variation of that phrase, but we don't say, "It blew my mind away". However, these can be synonyms, so you could also say here that it blew it you away 🙂

[@samiracle9852]

Thanks for clarification 😅

[@Music-uk5dm]

Thank you very much for this lesson, Josh. I have already seen it twice. But it seems I need some more views to fully comprehend your concept that AH is AH regardless of where it is.))

[@شعرکوتاه-ع7ظ]

Good❤

[@John2corner]

Another great hack! I have a question. So the raising means the front of your tongue is lightly raiseddue to N, M following Ah sound?

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

No, the middle and/or back is slightly raised. The placement of the sound on the front of the tongue is the same

[@John2corner]

@@NativeEnglishHacks The placement of the Ah sound is on the front of the tongue right? What about OW as in Cow. Is it on the front of the tongue as well?

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

Yes, AH is on the front. The start of OW is also, yes. It's not the same place in terms of how forward the tongue is or the exact position on the tongue (see my vowel charts), but it's still placed quite forward. The vowel charts on my website will give you a lot of this information. The biggest difference between AH and the start of OW/AI is the exact shape of the tongue (which the charts don't tell you)

[@rikkichadwick3548]

New Zealand : And - end, class - cless , pack - peck lol

[@comoenelviejooeste12]

Can you make a video in which you speak as fast as you do it in real life. It would be cool to listen to you in real speed mode 😃👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Great videos! What part of the US are you from? 👍🏼

[@NativeEnglishHacks]

Well, I try to slow down a little and enunciate a bit more for the video lessons, but if you watch one of the recorded live streams, I usually don't pay too much attention to that. It's not quite the same as when I'm talking to another native, but it's close :)

[@comoenelviejooeste12]

@@NativeEnglishHacks thanks for the reply. I don’t know why but I imagine yourself speaking super fast 😃