The TRUTH about Israel, Syria, Palestine | Omar Baddar

[@brentriley4911]

The bus and pizza bombings led to the apartheid of checkpoints, walls, and travel restrictions.

[@MrHumanforlife]

It was an apartheid since the beginning

[@razi1569]

Do Palestinians have the same legal rights as Israelis in Israel? Whenever Israel is accused of being undemocratic or being an Apartheid state, one of the main counter-arguments used by its advocates is that everyone in Israel is politically equal. They’ll often cite examples of “Arab” judges or members of Knesset to reinforce their point. I have specifically discussed the issue of Apartheid more thoroughly in the answer below, and while they are connected, the goal of this answer is to inspect the narrower claim that every Israeli citizen is equal. While such a claim is very attractive to defenders of Israel, how realistic is it? At first glance it does seem that all citizens in Israel enjoy the same rights, they can all vote, for example, among many other rights granted by citizenship. However, after a more thorough look it becomes clear that this talking point is only held together by the omission of one very important fact: Israel distinguishes between citizenship and nationality. What does this mean? For example, you can be a citizen of Israel but be a Druze national, or a Jewish national. Your nationality is determined by your ethnicity and it cannot be changed or challenged. But how is this relevant to the original question being discussed? It is relevant because many of the rights you are accorded in Israel stem from your nationality not your citizenship. Meaning an “Arab” Israeli citizen and a Jewish Israeli citizen, while both citizens, enjoy different rights and privileges determined by their “nationality”. Seeing how Israel is an ethnocracy it is not a mystery who this system privileges and who it discriminates against. This is not merely discrimination in practice, but discrimination by law. Adalah have composed a database of discriminatory laws in Israel that disfavor non-Jewish Israelis. For example, the Law of Return and Absentees’ Property Law are but two examples of flagrant racism and discrimination in the Israeli legal system. This is not some old, odd oversight, but a very deliberate part of the design of Israeli society. This is periodically reinforced whenever some Israelis petition the Supreme Court to recognize an Israeli nationality that does not discriminate based on ethnicity. A recent example of these petitions was in 2013, where the Supreme Court rejected such an idea on the grounds that it would “undermine Israel’s Jewishness“.

[@hartyewh1]

The truth and Baddar are like oil and water. Self-separating.

[@charismabarling]

It’s apartheid because the Israelis exercise Israeli sovereignty and control over the West Bank (even though under actual international law they are considered occupied Palestinian territories). If it were simply only an illegal occupation they wouldn’t have any Israeli sovereign civilians actually moved into/living in the territories themselves, because that is not what a legal military occupation is, they’re doing what de-facto annexation is…meaning Israel isn’t simply illegally militarily occupying the territory, they consider it a part of Israel, or else their settlers or civilians wouldnt be living there or exercising control of the area under the Israeli legal system and considered Israeli citizens, and wouldn’t fall under the protection of the Israeli occupation forces illegally occupying it. It’s set up with the settlers that way because it’s fundamental to the expansion project that they have Israeli sovereign citizens illegally (under international law) living there so that they can say the continued illegal military occupation of the territory is “necessary” to the safety of their citizens illegally living there, but the Palestinians still live under a separate legal and rights system (apartheid) in that territory the Israeli government considers Israel. It’s apartheid because there are Israelis exercising complete sovereignty and control over it, and have two different systems based on race/ethnicity on the same territory

[@talksmoke1190]

Excellent misinterpretation

[@user97200]

I feel similarly to you, so I would be curious for your thoughts on an interesting question someone posed to me! I’m still wrestling with it. Given that 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab, and given that Arab-Israelis (non-Jewish) can live in West Bank settlements, wouldn’t that be “two different systems based on citizenship status in the same territory”? Basically the person I was talking with was trying to argue that the two systems treat people differently based on being (A) a citizen of Israel, or (B) a citizen of the Palestinian Authority government

[@razi1569]

​@user97200 also in the 1srael the Palestinians are nit equal citizens because they can never be. After al the zi9naz1 jwsh terr0rist regime is a a state for jws so every non jws is automatically regarded as inferior and non citizen. Do Palestinians have the same legal rights as Israelis in Israel? Whenever Israel is accused of being undemocratic or being an Apartheid state, one of the main counter-arguments used by its advocates is that everyone in Israel is politically equal. They’ll often cite examples of “Arab” judges or members of Knesset to reinforce their point. I have specifically discussed the issue of Apartheid more thoroughly in the answer below, and while they are connected, the goal of this answer is to inspect the narrower claim that every Israeli citizen is equal. While such a claim is very attractive to defenders of Israel, how realistic is it? At first glance it does seem that all citizens in Israel enjoy the same rights, they can all vote, for example, among many other rights granted by citizenship. However, after a more thorough look it becomes clear that this talking point is only held together by the omission of one very important fact: Israel distinguishes between citizenship and nationality. What does this mean? For example, you can be a citizen of Israel but be a Druze national, or a Jewish national. Your nationality is determined by your ethnicity and it cannot be changed or challenged. But how is this relevant to the original question being discussed? It is relevant because many of the rights you are accorded in Israel stem from your nationality not your citizenship. Meaning an “Arab” Israeli citizen and a Jewish Israeli citizen, while both citizens, enjoy different rights and privileges determined by their “nationality”. Seeing how Israel is an ethnocracy it is not a mystery who this system privileges and who it discriminates against. This is not merely discrimination in practice, but discrimination by law. Adalah have composed a database of discriminatory laws in Israel that disfavor non-Jewish Israelis. For example, the Law of Return and Absentees’ Property Law are but two examples of flagrant racism and discrimination in the Israeli legal system. This is not some old, odd oversight, but a very deliberate part of the design of Israeli society. This is periodically reinforced whenever some Israelis petition the Supreme Court to recognize an Israeli nationality that does not discriminate based on ethnicity. A recent example of these petitions was in 2013, where the Supreme Court rejected such an idea on the grounds that it would “undermine Israel’s Jewishness“.

[@jakenewfield]

Timeline: 00:00 - Introduction 00:36 - Syria: Assad’s collapse 05:13 - Ceasefire with Hezbollah 07:41 - Donald Trump 12:41 - Iran 14:17 - DEBATE: Israel vs Palestine 23:18 - Is Israel an Apartheid State? 27:51 - Jihadism

[@joseph69678]

Jake, you asked an important question about Jihadism. I would urge you to listen to Sam Harris. It is clear that Jihadism has always existed, it’s not because of oppression.

[@MrHumanforlife]

How does it always exist if isr*el was established by terr*rism

[@spytarek]

Their religious affiliation is irrelevant to the injustice served to them for decades. It just so happens that the majority of them are Muslim. As an atheist I detest “jihadism” but you and Jake are just using it to cover up what is clearly injustice. Stop distracting people with these propaganda talking points. If they were Hindus, the Israelis would treat them the same way, and you wouldn’t be able to use the jihadi excuse

[@joseph69678]

@spytarek if you think Jihadism is irrelevant here, idk what to tell you. Jihadism is the reason they continue to fight Israel, then reject any negotiations after they lose a war. The reason the cycle of violence continues is because of Jihadism. They cannot tolerate Jewish land on what they believe is Muslim land. Learn about the three nos adopted by the Palestinian leadership and other Arab nations, after Israel kicked their ass in another war among many wars. At some point, leadership needs to focus on doing whats right for the Palestinian people rather than fighting a war they cannot win. Jihadism is why they can’t negotiate. Even peaceful treaties with Jihadists only last for a limited amount of time, and Jihadists will cite texts to justify treaties with infidels only being temporary. Do more research.

[@khubza8999]

This could not be more clearly stated by Omar: "Stop denying Palestinians freedom and allow them to live their own lives. Either let them have their own state on the basis of the 1967 borders, as required under international law, or, if you insist on retaining all of the land and do not want to give any part of it to the Palestinians, then you owe them equal rights. Palestinians must be equal to Israelis in every way. The problem is that Israel wants to have its cake and eat it too. It does not want to give Palestinians their own state because it wants to remain in control of the land, but it also does not want to grant Palestinians equal rights in that land. Instead, it seeks to perpetually rule over Palestinians while denying them their rights, effectively saying, "Either you live here with us without rights, or you can go somewhere else." This is the core injustice that drives the violence." @32:03-32:39. THAT'S THE "CONFLICT" TODAY IN A NUTSHELL.

[@whosgotthetime]

#1, international law does not require Israel to return any territory acquire in 1967 “borders” (which were really only armistice lines); and the PLO leadership has had multiple opportunities to accept such an agreement but always refused, citing the need for a “right of return” (to land that is now Israel proper) #2, The reason Israel does not want a Palestinian state is because the majority Arab population in Gaza continues to support their destruction (you may have noticed that the Palestinians cannot go even a few months without launching attacks on Jews/Israeli civilians) #3, the conditions within West Bank and Gaza are 99% the fault of Hamas and PA, who in addition to enforcing a backwards jihadist society have received BILLIONS of dollars international aid and spend it on weapons and luxury hotels for their leaders instead of developing any kind of infrastructure

[@shokosugi2346]

If you want to talk about "terrorism fueled by religious extremism," you may want to check out a documentary called Holy Redemption, right here on KZbin. Honestly, I've been hearing Palestinians referred to as religious extremists most of my life, and I've not really seen much evidence of that at all. Israel, on the other hand, are constantly referring to scripture while committing violence and referring to scripture to talk about why Palestine belongs to them. Additionally, Christians refer to scripture to justify their support of Israel in all circumstances, in some insane notion of an end times prophecy. As such, it's bizarre for you to essentially ask: Is it possible that it's not 75 years of occupation and brutality that causes acts of violence from within Palestine and towards their occupiers, but maybe "Jihadism?" Which one of these things is more proximate in your honest estimation? Further, if it's just the religion, why aren't the other one and a half billion or so Muslims engaging in violence? You know better than this, come on. Also, I can understand wanting to clarify an terms and their applications but the amount of time and struggle that you're devoting to the term apartheid in December of 2024 comes off as a little silly. Like 'sure, their resources and movement are completely controlled by Israel and they're policed by Israel's police with impunity and there are different laws for different people.............. BUT IS IT APARTHEID?!' Bro, who cares at this point? Watch this, for argument's sake: It's not apartheid. How does this substantively change your analysis of the aforementioned dynamics? Is it cool now just because it's not apartheid?

[@orlandodasilva2529]

Very well put

[@Leeena-9]

How does this Jake guy not get it. Israel controls the air, sea, water, electricity, travel rights (including within the Palestinian Territories) of Palestinians in all of the West Bank and Gaza. That is why it is apartheid. I feel like Omar was very patient with this kid that seems to not know even the basics of what has been going on for decades in Palestine

[@indus7744]

Jake has a reset button after every interview- to wipe the slate clean off anything that supports the Palestinian cause that he might have learnt from individuals like Ilan Pappe and Gideon Levy. And then round and round he goes ... Key words for defending apartheid and occupation- (a) pedantic (b) semantics. Well done!

[@skcrw252]

Anyway, concerning "jihadism". I believe we know that those in Western countries who join such causes usually aren't socioeconomically disadvantaged.

[@shokosugi2346]

Are you talking about people who move to Israel to join the IDF and/or move into a Palestinian home?

[@skcrw252]

@shokosugi2346 no, which both of us know. Although I'd assume the same is true for them ...

[@velocirshtr3756]

I like how Jake keeps citing that 1/5th of Palestinians in Israel/Palestine are full citizens of Israel meanwhile dismissing the remainder 4/5th 😂 Jake, you are actually helping to build the case for apartheid when you use that as your argument lol 🤦‍♂️

[@technocolortv]

This guy sure does criticize the west well but not a single critique of the Middle East lol

[@shokosugi2346]

You know Israel is in the Middle-East, right?

[@brentriley4911]

Abbas could advance resolution prospects by tabling one country as an acceptable option, as he said he would.

[@M_nxtdoor]

Jake’s comes across as insincere.

[@jakenewfield]

Can you please tell me what you mean by this? This feedback would be helpful for me

[@Moanerzl]

He does, indeed. Either he is willfully ignorant or woefully unprepared for this conversation. Looks like he is either just thick as a brick, or he would just rather ignore facts that are right in his face and apparent to anyone who is not on the pro-Israel apology team.

[@Dudemeister]

Thick as a brick

[@shokosugi2346]

@@jakenewfield I can't speak with certainty for OP but they may mean that you're making some arguments that you don't appear to have full faith in. Personally, I wouldn't say you come off as insincere per se. I bounce back and forth between feeling like you're just trying your hardest to be challenging or you really want to defend Israel and are clinging to even the weakest arguments still (arguably) available to do so. The only argument you made that I felt like you really believed deep down and put your back into was the apartheid one.

[@ammamar4269]

​@@jakenewfield Here is my thought - an example of potential inauthenticity/insincerity was when you said "But Israel Left Gaza in 2005". You've had a lot of conversations to date, with many people, on this point alone - I was surprised you brought that up. Was that an example of giving the speaker an opportunity to counter commonly stated points for the benefit of viewership that is new to this discourse, or did you want to see what he would say/slip up, or did you genuinely believe that was a reasonable pushback? With as much as you know, I'm unsure, since you know quite a bit this point. A better approach is to say "Ardent Israel Supporters say that XXXXXXXXXX, how would you reply to that" might be a better approach, but I'm assuming that you are trying to provide the speaker an opportunity to counter commonly stated points.

[@mikehenry9846]

I’ve been on both sides in this argument, and it comes to this, if 500 Palestinians come out and say their pro zionist. What happens?

[@MrHumanforlife]

Same things that happen to pro Palestine in Isr*el

[@mikehenry9846]

@MrHumanforlife I said pro Zionist. if 500 Jewish people in Israel, said they are pro “Palestine”. That means they support the idea of Palestine having a state of their own? Then what happens? Both sides have created this version of hell makes no sense based on bitterness in the most holy land on earth. Death has become the option of necessity of choice, to fight and die for what? For revenge? For land that has been contested for generations? For ideologies that seems to spread blindness to our entire shared humanity? The cycle of violence perpetuates suffering. Voices calling for peace are drowned out by those clamoring for revenge. It’s going to take truly miraculous people in that area to go against what they Know to be true And understand that it must be false and that dialogue, understanding, and a vision of world which has seemed to become increasingly divided is not ths way to bridge the chasm between us all. The future should not be a continuation of the past; it should be a testament to our ability to evolve and learn from our mistakes. Only then can the existence of such a reality exist as one that honors the dignity and rights of all involved.

[@skcrw252]

I don't even dislike Baddar, but "Palestinians in Israel have it A LITTLE BIT better than black people in SA Apartheid"? Come on, man ...

[@AbstractLaw]

Really good interview. More please

[@jakenewfield]

Thank you!

[@bobbyd5167]

So you learned NOTHING from the Rabbi? Back on here with your dumb line of questioning, playing dumb. What is your aim?

[@selectland1]

I would say South Africa's action on behalf of Palestinians has been more helpful than Iran's actions.

[@iamjopaul]

You have such patience dealing with Omar, i commend you...i prob wouldve lost it lol

[@khubza8999]

I was thinking of writing the SAME TO Omar --he has a lot of patience with the interviewer who wants to salvage Israel's image at ANY cost. Extremely PEDANTIC (Jake himself ADMITS IT! near @ 22:00-23:00)

[@shokosugi2346]

The only thing frustrating about Omar is he says things that make some people uncomfortable. There is nothing untoward or subversive about the points he's making.

[@Livepunch30]

This omar lie alot 😅😂

[@itsikmiz]

When pro Palestinians say justice they mean no Jewish sovereignty in any part of the land. That is miss use of the word justice, historically, morally and factually.

[@Moanerzl]

Your excuse for racist policies. What a moral hypocrit.

[@itsikmiz]

@Moanerzl you are uneducated for saying this non sense. You just want to destroy the only Jewish state with your insane double standard and inability to understand the reality of the Middle East.

[@ar2042]

Pure Colonizer projection

[@itsikmiz]

@ar2042 true, the Arabs colonized the land for too long.

[@khubza8999]

No--they mean get OUT of Palestinian territories --even by Oslo standards. Why did Israel import 700,000 SETLLERS into the WEST BANK???

[@indus7744]

Jake has a reset button after every interview- to wipe the slate clean off anything that supports the Palestinian cause that he might have learnt from individuals like Ilan Pappe and Gideon Levy. And then round and round he goes ... Key words for defending apartheid and occupation- (a) pedantic (b) semantics. Well done!

[@jakenewfield]

this channel is called 'for the sake of argument' which I mean almost literally

[@kanepreton9588]

Jake is so disingenuous with his framing of apartheid when he talks about israel "we both know that west bank isnt part of of israel" and then calling netanyahu "just some crazy guys". I will never understand the mind of someone who looks at effective control and says 'no, you dont have control'

[@Pal3stin3]

Omg Jake 🤦🏾‍♀️