The truth about MASTER tapes. *Yes, the truth.

[@redmackay1388]

A very honest, but extremely brutal presentation! Surely most of us that are serious into tapes, realistically know we may have only 4th or even 5th generation copies sometimes. But you know - we don't care. The density and SQ on playback, provides listener interaction smooth as silk and like it's from another World. My best vinyl fails to do that even half as well. But ohh - the price of a single piece of software is so expensive. Even more so when you don't reside in the US... Love the software reviews. Thanks.

[@SonicFlare]

When tape is from the right source, it’s magical, pristine, incredible, transformative, addictive. When it’s not, you are much better off with a record or digital. Given the scarcity of genuinely great tapes and their cost, it’s no wonder this medium will never go anywhere beyond a small, dedicated niche, despite best efforts…

[@Fluterra]

When you listen to vinyl on a world-class TT, the quality is better than most (all?) R2R. Play a great record on a TechDAS, SAT, or Nagra TT and see what I mean. There is ZERO background noise, for instance.

[@Michael45RPM]

Very Cool Danny, thanks for this incredible amount of information around the topic of Master Tapes. Great One!

[@SonicFlare]

Klar doch! Thanks Michael!!!

[@Fluterra]

When AP says they transferred the tape they are selling “from a copy of the original master tape”, does that mean the tape they are selling is the 2nd copy from the master? From Analogue Productions comes another classic title in our Ultra Tape reel-to-reel album reissue series. Each is a 15 ips, ¼-inch analog tape copy (IEC equalization) sourced from a copy of the original analog master tape. Transferred real-time, using an ATR-modified Ampex Tape Machine with flux magnetic heads

[@Fluterra]

No. They don’t tell you how many copies away from the master it is, for good reason. See my post above. They cannot run hundred of machines recording in parallel, so they make copies from copies from copies. With vinyl, you get a copy right from the master (at least it’s possible).

[@stereo8893]

I can't wait to hear more of the things you know. I could listen forever. You're very knowledgeable - and thanks for the info on kind of blue. - my copy is on it's way !

[@SonicFlare]

Ha! Thanks much Ray, appreciate you tuning in!

[@AnalogueOctober]

The French project that bought all the Emtec / Basf hardware and formula was Pyrel and now rebranded as RTM (recording the masters) and still making great tape!

[@SonicFlare]

Ah, right... Pyrel. There have been so many name changes and changes of ownership, it's hard to keep track of!

[@glenesis]

Hi! I am a recording engineer. Remixes and remasters drive me crazy. I consider the sonics imparted by great engineers of the past to be integral to old recordings, and it's generally not a great idea to mess with their work - you lose the imaging and gel that glues the mixes together every time. Sure, It's educational to hear tracks re-processed, but it's rare that I'm not disappointed by reissues versus original issues. I hadn't known about the trendy LP records being issued on 45rpm vinyl. In my experience, I've always thought that 45rpm singles are noisier than my 33's and I attributed that to low-end noise due to needle friction being inaudible at 33, but brought up into the audible range at 45... I guess I've been wrong. It's a great gimmick to sell plastic, ey? In the 80's when CD reissues sprang up, many of them sounded awful, and nowhere near as good as my (then) 20 year old vinyl. I attribute this to Master Tape Degradation. We live on a planet that exists in a magnetic field that is constantly rearranging the magnetic particles on these masters. Vinyl is subject to dust and scratches and melting and warpage, but it is not subject to the magnetic noise that surrounds all of existence. Master Tapes are subject to magnetic anomalies and degradation, and it's audible. When I hear quality reissues like Tommy from the Who, or that 20th anniversary Dark Side Of The Moon from Pink Floyd, those amazing reissues are an exception in quality, not the rule by any means. Great video. Thanks for sharing!

[@beosliege]

@23:40 - doesn’t bug me if digital is the best source. I’ve found that if I record lossless streaming to cassette tape it sounds amazing, so I can imagine this is a legit good way to use larger tapes as well. Well-recorded tape really does infuse realism into the sound.

[@SonicFlare]

Agreed!

[@PassCookie]

6:55 little fun fact for you. There is no 70mm negative. The negatives are 65mm and the prints for projection are 70mm. The extra 5mm are for multiple sound tracks/channels.

[@SonicFlare]

That’s very true!

[@MarvinHartmann452]

I don't trust my ears, because what other people hear might sound different from one person to another, I'm a electronic technician with 40 years of experience, and I only trust my testing equipment to know the distortion and floor noise of any device, the accuracy, frequency response etc. I don't care for audiophile mumbo jumbo like cable risers or other nonsense. I enjoy listening to music, but what sounds good to me doesn't necessarily sound good for another person and the opposite, and I respect that. If people enjoy a particular media, then good for them, just don't pay premium prices for something that doesn't worth it for you.

[@SonicFlare]

There you go! Music ... not gear.

[@bletheringfool]

RTM the French people actually make tapes based off the original BASF and AGFA formulas

[@SonicFlare]

Yep! The problem they have is that it’s wasn’t only the chemical formula that BASF perfected, it was also the mechanical production that they had perfected, which is extremely difficult to replicate and scale at the quantities today’s tapes are being sold…

[@SonicFlare]

In today's episode, we take a look at everyone's favorite ultimate playback medium, the master tape. Yes, everyone who has one thinks they do, but they really don't - unless they know better. Like most things in high-end audio, terms have been used and abused. Much like "Half Speed Mastered" or "One Step" or "45rpm", the term "Master tape" has been through the ringer and then some. Let's clarify and contrast this topic to reality! #mastertape #audio #hifi #music #studio #analogmaster #analogtape Hemiolia Records www.hemioliarecords.com/HemioliaITA/Benvenuto.html Acoustic Sounds / Analog Productions store.acousticsounds.com

[@VIDSTORAGE]

I have been wondering about old master tapes from the 50s to 70s and wondering are they deteriorating now or are they still in good condition .. What do you think about The Last Factory Tape Preservative and is it a product that will solve the problem of tape degradation ?

[@SonicFlare]

Many are in good condition, but the tapes from the 70s and 80s are horrendously bad and very much deteriorating. Most are unplayable unless they are baked.

[@VIDSTORAGE]

@@SonicFlare Ampex tapes mostly I assume that have Tape Shed

[@SonicFlare]

@@VIDSTORAGE for sure, but not exclusively - when they outlawed whale oil as a binder in the 70s, everyone struggled to create a replacement chemical … the Germans got there first, no surprise really, the are a chemical powerhouse.

[@billhennigan3773]

Great video..In the past 1970's..I always tried to get the albums for sale @ 7 1/2 ips because I heard a great fidelity difference between the studio produced @ 3 3/4" IPS..15 1/2" was not available for us at a commercial level...I.E. Columbia House and music stores..

[@SonicFlare]

3 3/4ips tapes have insane amounts of tape hiss, which even when playing rock music or similar becomes bothersome to listen "through"; reason being super high-speed dubbing of 30x, which slashed high-frequencies and shitty, entry level, low euality tape stock. 71/2ips tapes fared far better in this regard; some sound absolutely amazing for sure! Thanks for tuning in Bill!

[@daviddrake7003]

What is the 3rd tape machine you have? I hope a Tandberg TD20A SE 15 2 Track handwound heads and 15 to 34,000 Hz response. Super tweaked by an expert on Stax electrostatic headphones with perfect pitch and perfect timing according to Principle Second Violins Franz Polesny of the CSO under Rafael Kubelik (me). I know what you mean about radio ( canned). What my impression is of 99.9 percent of loudspeakers. Especially reproduction of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra I was present at dress rehearsals while my mother played Second chair Second Violins. Von Schweikert loudspeakers are designed to be the inverse of the recording microphone with a plus or minus midrange. The VR-9 is close, the Beveridge Model 2 is close, the MBL is close, Wilsons close. Bozak custom installation on either side of a Huge fireplace in Rancho Sante Fe California, very very close.

[@SonicFlare]

Thanks for tuning in David! I have 4 machines... 2 Telefunken M-15, 1 Nagra IV-S and 1 SonoruS modified PR99III... I'm crazy, I know...

[@douglaswatters7303]

One thing I thought would come to market someday but just never did were discs that would hold all 24 tracks of a master recording. (I know not all albums were mixed from 24 tracks). For someone to have a actual 24 track tape and the equipment to play it on would be extremely rare, but with a computer and a digital copy of the 24 track master recording imagine all the things regular people could do with it. With a blu ray all tracks could be put on the disc at a high bit rate. There are also probably multiple takes on the master tapes. It would be so cool if someone took the masters from "Queen Night at the Opera" or other greats and ripped all the tracks to disk instead of leaving the tapes to rot in storage. I know the market would be small, but if people are willing to pay thousands for a tape then why not release some works on 24 track disc?

[@fdski]

If you had a 24 track 2"tape all you would have are the raw unmixed tracks. There are racks of outboard gear that are utilized to mixed that tape. Of course that would require a more than working knowledge of that gear and the skill to put it all together. I wonder if most people would want to spend an average of ten hours per song to mix them. Interesting...

[@MarvinHartmann452]

​@@fdskiThat look like something that would be awesome to do, to me at least.

[@bikemike1118]

Love your honesty regarding hype & marketing in the (high end) audio world….definitely so! Only trust your ears 👂👌🏼

[@SonicFlare]

Indeed! Cheers for watching!

[@s.t.e.r.e.o.]

Also, thank you for the Canto Stefano recommendation. Amazing album its been on constant rotation

[@SonicFlare]

his entire repertoire is great!!!

[@ColocasiaCorm]

Could you use the noise floor itself to estimate the generation of a given copy

[@SonicFlare]

Good question, not really because there could be many reasons for a noisy - hiss - tape. That said, who knows, maybe with the latest AI software you could possibly discern that? I have no idea. I was asked last year if I could help prove the history and provenance of a series of tapes and basically replied that the party should seek a forensic analysis expert which I am not… 😎🍻🍿

[@audiotomb]

Excellent Danny Dave Deyner has a great channel. He reviews audiophile lps and tapes on a top flight turntable and a STUDER pro R2R used by EMI. - top flight stuff

[@douglaswatters7303]

The amount of money some ebay buyers pay for a 7 inch reel of an album recorded regular 4 track (2 tracks each direction) at 3.75 ips blows my mind. Old Beatles, Clapton, Blondie or whatever tapes sometimes go for over 300 bucks, and for what? Those tapes won't sound anywhere near to the same album on a cd.

[@SonicFlare]

Agreed 💯 it’s positively silly!

[@joel_hifi1994]

Danny, excellent topic/video 👍 Studer A-807 owner here who’d love to see more affordable material come to the market. Hope you will trigger something here! Btw I recently got some tapes from IPI, some live recordings from early 60s Oscar Peterson, the MJQ, Ira Sullivan, and some more recent recordings Gary Peacock/Chick Corea and Charles Lloyd. Jonathan is very knowledgeable and a pleasure to deal with, he also has an extended catalog of more contemporary recordings and his prices are pretty decent. Thanks for suggesting the excellent Pavarotti Hemiolia tape, I would be interested to order both tapes but I’m finding the prices a little steep 😞 Hopefully if reel to reel tape sales start to pick up, the labels involved will be able to pass on to the consumer some of their economies of scale. Looking forward to see more on this topic, I believe there are a lot of RTR lovers out there 🙏 Best, Joel

[@SonicFlare]

Cheers Joel! Jonathan has done / does a fantastic job with these releases ... I have a few of them myself, completely transparent about the provenance, source, dubbing, etc. A+++ The Pavarotti is to die for - you'll love it! Sadly, I don't think that tape will ever be more than a super niche-niche it's just too futzy and complex / expensive a medium.

[@jahhshaina5040]

Greetings, can you please contact us. We loved the podcast on Master Tapes and we need you!!!!!! Can't wait to hear from you.ty.

[@SonicFlare]

😂 sure, who are you and how do I contact you? You can DM me on Instagram.

[@gdavisloop]

Friend of mine got a nice pile of "safety" copies of pre-mastered mixdowns from a major southern record label and brought them to me to digitize. He got the tapes for free but sold the originals after I was done with them. Some of them sounded REALLY GOOD; and one contained studio sessions from a know artist, that were never released. All of the tape boxes had "work sheets" that seemed to verify their authenticity, although of course those could be faked. It's GREAT that so many studios and production houses just threw out all their old tapes, and some of those were salvaged.

[@SonicFlare]

Agreed. Funny, just the other day I was speaking with a music industry person who basically said that back in the "day" no one gave a hoot about master tape dubs or mix down tapes, etc. so people who had access to them made all sorts of copies for personal use, etc. No one really cared or paid attention to it. Once it became a "thing" the whole process became far more scrutinized and watched over. As I've said, if you can prove the provenance of these tape dupes, you landed the holy grail for sure. Thanks for tuning in!

[@christopherrippel2463]

24-track tape was 2". 32-track was digital.

[@SonicFlare]

True!

[@rorysuire6177]

Hi Danny I have a question. Analog Productions for example have put out many records with the sticker that says it's a copy from the master tapes so it means they were in possession of a or a safety copy. Why not put that on tape? I'm talking about the Doors for example. Stuff outside of the jazz and classical realm

[@SonicFlare]

Oh, I’m sure Chad would love to put The Doors out on tape… problem is that it boils down to rights management, licensing and lots of greedy coffers that need to be filled………

[@audiotomb]

If I were showing mega buck amps and speakers I would expense a top flight r2r deck. The sound is so warm and effortless. That said my vinyl rig and sought after pressing are pretty life like

[@SonicFlare]

Agreed! Tape is like every other audio device in the chain: it can be great or it can be shitty. Just because something is a tape dub doesn’t make it be the best sounding format.

[@giir3211]

The example with cassette dubbing is invalid. Cassette is different then tape.

[@bernhardh6184]

Hello Danny, thank you for this thought. I'm sure you're 100% right. If I ever buy a tape-machine, it is for the Pavarotti. This tape is just wow!!! Best wishes from Graz!

[@SonicFlare]

Alles klar, Herr Kommissar! 🥂🤣

[@manolokonosko594]

Andrew from Parlogram Auctions channel has an Australian production dub tape of Sgt. Pepper's. The same one used for the legendary 497 copies of the album released as audiophile. And he took it to Abbey Road to play it. The tape is damaged, It was probably left next to a heat source or a magnet and there is a thump on "Within You Without You" which in my humble opinion, probably improved it. But it also extended to the other tracks, unfortunately.

[@curtpalme7522]

A nice presentation, but I'm surprised that you don't mention that ATR tape is alive and well in North America (the old Ampex factory), and RTM is in France, which is the old BASF/Emtec factory. There's also Capture tape out of Portland Oregon, I'm not sure where they get their tape manufactured from.

[@SonicFlare]

I thought I mentioned ATR ... I have found their product a bit inconsistent in practice, new tape with dropouts, etc. I basically only use NOS BASF 911/528 tape stock... it's the best tape formulas ever created and will likely never be bettered...

[@giir3211]

@@SonicFlare You are so wrong man.

[@MarvinHartmann452]

Is these tape are 1/2 or 1/4 ? Tape?

[@SonicFlare]

1/4” 2 track

[@AnalogueOctober]

I have a few 15ips transcriptions from Gearbox records from their “masters”. They sound great. But of course they are a 2 Gen dub. But they sound amazing nonetheless. I’ve avoided “masters” though because there are so many variables in play. Old tape stock, Sticky Shed syndrome and of course, unverifiable provenance.

[@SonicFlare]

Absolutely!

[@Cinemagic77]

Don't be so quick to knock AM radio. AM can indeed sound phenomenal and AM stereo can offer more stereo separation than FM stereo can. The thing that has troubled AM radio for the past 50 years or so has been the poor manufacturing of receivers and tuners, as well as insufficient attention to quality on the part of so many AM broadcasters over the years and decades. The amplitude modulation can be proven and has been proven to be a superior fidelity medium, when done right, broadcasting and receiving.

[@SonicFlare]

Eh, both formats are basically dead, save for the developing world. I mean what do you hope to get out of AM or FM radio other than nostalgia and wishful thinking. That said, I appreciate your comment and it would be nice if things were different. The world moves on…

[@reidsvinylrecords]

This means of source was next on the list on my hifi journey, thanks for the enlightenment!

[@darinb.3273]

The original recordings were recorded raw and making the stereo master is after the processing and downmixed to two channel stereo mix so you already have one generation making the downmmixed sound. Now it is digitally recorded so it's not much loss if any at all.

[@OGSAFUNKATEER1901]

I am excited to own two master tapes of a legendary Detroit funk artist with songs that have never been released.

[@SonicFlare]

Very cool! I bet they sound amazing

[@OGSAFUNKATEER1901]

@@SonicFlare at 30 ips the sound is amazing.

[@SonicFlare]

Nice!!!

[@daviddrake6875]

What about the Tandberg TD 20A SE? Where does it fit? Is this factory specifications? I have found them to be average and mine is tweaked to a knat’s eyebrow with alignment tape, a 250 MHz scope for phase and fine tuning with electrostatic headphones. Mine is better than a Revox A-77 MK 4 which I had and traded that and a Sony TC-377 for it.

[@SonicFlare]

Tandberg’s have tremendous historic value, given Tandberg being one of the genuine high-end cassette deck manufacturers like ReVox or Nakamichi… the problem with Tandberg is that they never sold in quantity like ReVox or Nakamichi, thus getting spare parts is increasingly more and more difficult, which, unless you turn to re-manufacturing or “3D printing”, makes you own lots of paper weight material…………. No doubt you have a very fine machine! Thanks for tuning in!

[@yannick930]

Where is the Instagram link ? :)

[@mrcasey69]

Fone' from Italy is a great source for master (or so) copies.

[@nickbitten6037]

Very interesting - tape always interests me, be it R to R, cassette or VHS/ Beta HiFi tape ( not forgetting our friend the 8-track). Think i would be permanently broke if i went down the 15 ips route.

[@SonicFlare]

Hahaha #truestory yes… it gets expensive quickly!

[@MarvinHartmann452]

Beta were always better sounding than vhs.

[@bobjerome5390]

hi all alot of master tape s are 1/2 1 inch wide tracks 1 inch 4 track 2 track 1/2 inch or full track mono in the past i had 100's of tapes on pallets when studio are no more best to keep away from 1/4 tapes big time i only buy 1/2 inch to 2 inch now and i pay on money save them getting binned

[@v5e762]

When you find out your $1000 "master tape" was made from a cd someone bought at a thrift store for $1.

[@SonicFlare]

LOL! #truestory

[@batman.darthmaul]

I suspect what was going on with companies like The Tape Project was they were getting hold of production copies. (These are the copies that consumer copies are made from. At the very best, these copies are one generation away from the master mix copy.) They could even be a couple of generations further from the master than that, such as a copy of a safety copy, anyway.... I suspect what these companies were doing was to make a digital dub of whatever source they were using, then dubbing that onto open reel to sell to audiophiles and calling them "master copies."

[@jazzmetalaudiophile]

I would never had guessed the topic, of this episode 😅.

[@renzonovara2728]

Please do a video on tape machines. That is a very interesting topic!

[@hansgeorgeder7380]

Yes ! Do it !*** Danny !!! I also love my 5 tapemaschines ! GREAT VIDEO

[@jabensergei]

Hi Danny, wonder if you can give any feedback about Patricia Barber Companion 2x LP release done by Premonition records, remastered by Doug Sax please. There are some information I could find online, but 1st its more about Modern Cool than any other album, where lots of talk about sibliance that those LP releases have. There is another Companion release done by MoFi, which you may also own, but this one is out of print and expensive to get, however, you may also give your shoot out about both, if possible of course. Personally, I like to get that Premonition version from 2013 release and wonder if this is really worth, cos if its sibliant by any way, I better just stay away and spend my money on something that sounds really great. By the way, I believe all Patricia recordings are digital made originally and later were transferred in to master tapes, but again, thats what I read others writing. Regarding topic. Master tapes are way to expensive to have fun in your life and for a good copy you pay like USD 700 at least these days, so, agree that vinyl is de most closesest format that can be bought for reasonable price that sounds great. Thanks!

[@SonicFlare]

So far, the Barber tapes I have are far superior to any other version I have access to. The closest - which in and of itself is quite amazing - is the Impex 1STEP of Café Blue, which comes darn close to the sound of the tape... what's interesting of course is that when I make tape copies of Tidal streams, those tape copies sound better than the Tidal stream! Go figure.

[@jabensergei]

@@SonicFlare Thx Danny! Still wonder if you own that 2x LP Companion release and what your thoughts about it.

[@hansgeorgeder7380]

@@SonicFlare Very interresting Danny. Thats right ! I belive it and i make it also (Revox PR 99 with butterfly heads and modified))

[@openreeltoreel]

They all digital recording you can check with the Mike

[@jabensergei]

@@openreeltoreel Yes, I know that and already got that Companion 2x LP released by Premonition records, high quality release.

[@LyndonSoulGroove]

wonder if many good Quality 7 I.P.s Recordings, are available i.e. not master tapes !

[@SonicFlare]

There are some 7.5ips pre-recorded tapes that are sensational, the problem is that people simply didn’t handle them with care and now these tapes are going on 40-50-60-70 years of age and are completely hit or miss with drop outs, tape warps, deterioration etc. etc. it’s hard to recommend it as you really need to play grade them…

[@openreeltoreel]

Plenty labels releases 71/2 Ips commercial release as you know the master tape copy of course not master blaster like same ofnyoir vinyl pure digital dsd production ;)

[@Fluterra]

The biggest issue with Reels is content. Leaving price aside, all the content available are the Cliche Titles: Norah Jones, John Coltrane, yadda yadda… Plus, a very high end Turntable is on par in many ways and better in other ways. I don’t think Reel will trump a Nagra Reference TT, for example.

[@D4rkS4v4nt]

This is probably why modern vinyl "remasters" and special editions of older albums sound worse than original pressings, I imagine that the source they use is so many copies removed from the one used by the original vinyl pressing.

[@hansgeorgeder7380]

Servus Danny ! Welche Köpfe hast Du auf deiner SonoruS ? Sind da neue Köpfe drauf oder sogar neue Schmetterlingsköpfe ? Denn so etwas hätte diese tolle Maschine mit Röhrentechnik eigentlich verdient. Liebe Grüße GEORG

[@SonicFlare]

Grüss dich, du, die normalen ReVox Köpfe... ich muss dabei sagen das ich nicht die ATR-10 von Arian / SonoruS habe, sondern seine "Einsteigs-model" was die normale PR99 auf Überholspur bringt... klingt 90% so gut, ist aber wesentlich günstiger...

[@hansgeorgeder7380]

@@SonicFlare DANKE Danny für deine schnelle Antwort. Ich habe auch unter anderem eine modifizierte PR99 MkIII . Alle bandführenden Teile sind auf Rollen gelagert, wie bei den großen Studer-Maschinen und natürlich Schmetterlingköpfe. Ich habe jemanden kennengelernt, der neu hergestellte Revox-Schmetterlingköpfe vertreibt.!!!*** Das ist einmalig. Ich denke, das wäre für die SonoruS- Maschinen sehr interessant.

[@hansgeorgeder7380]

Übrigens: Die Aufnahmen Von Fausto Mesolella sind außergewöhnich gut !*** Ich habe noch eine Platte von den 496 Exemplaren bekommen. Vielen vielen DANK für diesen tollen Tipp.

[@SonicFlare]

@@hansgeorgeder7380 freut mich das er dir gefällt… die restlichen Alben sind auch verdammt gut, Aufnahmen und Musik sind sensationell gut!!!

[@SonicFlare]

@@hansgeorgeder7380 hmmmmmm muss ich mal ankucken!!!

[@bobsbits5357]

hi otari made a 32 track for the usa market

[@audiotomb]

Roger Nichols when he did the 2 channel final mixes decided to run 2 identical tape decks simultaneously creating two indistinguishable master tapes (not a safety) One he always kept himself.

[@airwatersun]

Speak brother! Just for the record... 24 track 2 inch, 16 track 2 inch (the best!)...these were the tape based pro standards... 32 only in digital format like the early Mitsubishi system. Mastering to 30 IPS 1/2" tape, half track(one way only...) was the best pro standard before digital. You are so right...copying tape to tape is a very dodgy proposition. A lot of the impact can be blunted even in one copy pass. That's why engineers were so happy with digital as it mitigated the muddiness.

[@SonicFlare]

Yes!!!

[@James-hb6ee]

Good to make more people aware of these ripoffs. If it's too good to be true, then it probably is. The Tape Project site still appears to be up and they show that they still have 5 copies in stock of the Exotic Dances reel, several other tapes showed to be on back order. IIRC, when The Tape Project started up, they indicated that the machine they were using to make their copy of the original master tape, was a 1 inch, 30ips Ampex pro deck. They felt that this would only give them about one and a half db of SN loss as opposed to the usual three db. On another topic, which do you prefer the sound of, the Sonorus or the Telefunkens, and why?

[@SonicFlare]

Hey James, yeah, they use the larger format, although I don't know that they use that actual dub for the duplication, I think they run production copies off that dub. Re: sound ... the SonoruS is the best sounding, without question; the Telefunken is full of 70s shitty electronics, although one of the M15s has been modified by Ken Kreisel (whom I bough the machine from), he used it as the safety / production machine for his recording of "For Duke"... it sounds better than the stock M15. That sad, even the stock machine sounds "fine" as it is with everything high-end, if you don't have a direct A/B comparison, you'd think its the best sound you've ever heard. The SonoruS is just that much more open, dynamic, resolving...

[@James-hb6ee]

@@SonicFlare Thanks!

[@openreeltoreel]

Plenty other labels and in September 2022 over 50 of them release commercial tape as everyone know master tape copy, and please ask your mate Chad not to Maketing his releases as master tape!!!

[@inforobob]

So many issues here. There can be masters for tape reproduction, LP, CD, downloads, and streaming. Supposedly some of the bad sounding early CD's were produced from the LP cutting masters which would have an EQ profile which would not be suitable for CD. I have both consumer and pro decks and even 3rd generation tapes at 15ips 2 track sound very good. Also, 2" tape was used for 16 and 24 track recording as well. Mara Machines sells 16 and 24 track 2" refurbished machines. RTM is the French company producing very good blank tape. I do not work for any audio related company nor sell any audio related product. I am acquiring the equipment and knowledge to do live recording.

[@rashad3396]

Dont give it to universal though. I hear it makes good fire wood.

[@SonicFlare]

LOL right? what a shame... imagine Hollywood films had gone up in smoke.

[@ColocasiaCorm]

I thought exotic dances was recorded natively in 176khz…

[@SonicFlare]

Ha! Could be -

[@firecatfly]

In the 80's when we would master tapes, we would make several masters from the same 24 track two inch to avoid the problems you're talking about. And, I know other mastering houses would do the same. The first run masters or dubs from these mastering tapes would go to the artists themselves and with dbx type l system utilised correctly, these semi masters would sound incredible.

[@SonicFlare]

Have to agree with Nicholas … dbx is rather poor in preserving natural sound … great S/N ratios, poor sonics.

[@emilspec1227]

Hemiolia has released "Blue Train", "Kind Of Blue" and "Ah Um" as "master tapes" with questionable sources and definitely not officially licensed. They sell these for 850 euros each.

[@SonicFlare]

Ha! I didn't know... wonder what source they are using - there must be something official going on because I'm sure Universal would take that down right away... Maybe licensed from Universal Italy? At any event, KOB will not possibly sound any better than either the original Classic or the UHQR which uses the same metal parts.

[@emilspec1227]

@@SonicFlare this is from their website: "In collaboration with ERMITAGE DISTRIBUTION. All Hemiolia Records's Master Tapes born from the collaboration with Ermitage Distribution are producing using as a source exclusively Production Masters (First Generation) in stereo, 2 tracks - 1/4”" Not vague at all for an 850 euro product 😂

[@cerealgriego]

I was thinking about getting into tape, so I'm doing my research and this video is mindblowing, so informative, thank you so much for taking the time to do this and being honest.

[@SonicFlare]

Very cool, glad I could help cut through the nonsense!

[@fernandozaldivar1920]

The Tape Project is well and alive.

[@SonicFlare]

good to know - haven't heard or seen a peep from them in years!

[@openreeltoreel]

Possible but they not release any new tapes at all.

[@mp1450]

Thanks Danny. Lots of interesting information again! Love this half an hour educating sessions!👍👍👍

[@SonicFlare]

🤘🏻

[@podcastwasmitrockundvinyl9387]

Danke, Liebelein. Frisches Kölsch wartet hier auf dich.

[@SonicFlare]

Super!!!

[@johne5543]

I've got a mono master of the Beatles 'Please, Please Me' from Take My Word for lt productions lol

[@SonicFlare]

bwahahahahahahaha, wait you too??? I thought I was the only one!

[@manolokonosko594]

For decades, since I was a kid, I would drool over audiophile magazines, wishing I was one of those guys with those expensively handcrafted super-stereos, with a glass of scotch in one hand and a record on the other, in my smoking suit. Then a few years ago I started going to those audiophile shows where vendors would display their products and play albums. I was more impressed with the beauty and the prices than with the performance. They were good, but everything sounds "good" or "great" if you play pieces such as 3 piece jazz or a guy with a guitar singling Blues, or sometimes classical. The equipment doesn't have to work hard to bring out the sound, and since I don't listen to any of those types, it's very hard for me to justify spending big money on equipment that specializes on music that isn't what I listen to. Yet, there are enough suckers who spend entire retirement funds or mortgages on such equipment to keep these vendors in business year after year. It also helps when the vendor has a British accent. Gives their product more credibility. It's all an illusion. If the album brings out the emotions in you, then it has achieved its purpose. A better mastered album played on a better stereo may enhance that feeling but to a certain point, and certainly not worth paying the price of a new car for a tonearm. Michael Fremer caters to those guys because it means big money and getting million dollars in free stereo equipment to play with (not to keep, though). Everything is either about sex or money, but more often than not, both.

[@SonicFlare]

Thanks for watching and the insightful "long" post ... there is unfortunately a lot of nonsense in high-end audio. It's very much a super niche industry with little to no oversight or outside influence to right whatever wrongs there are. That translates to open season for all sorts of charlatans and snake oil sellers to grift from unsuspecting, feel good, believe anything you tell them, customers. I have tried to voice my sometimes contrarian opinions over the past 20+ years of being a reviewer and published writer to the extent that you can given the constraints of publishers and advertisers, etc. When I launched my YT channel, I wanted to free myself from those constraints and be as forthcoming as possible - granted, you always have to have some sort of "filter", so there is that... Of course none of this matters if you are a gear-head with 10 records and a half million dollar HiFi. There's plenty of those audio fools out there too! Cheers mate!

[@donquixote4630]

What should be clear from the get go is that the pinnacle of analog playback resides undoubtedly with the tape as medium; or in other words, if analog copies are made from the same source professionally, the 1/4" tape running at 15"/s on a decent 2 tracks machine would clearly surpass the 200g vinyl running at 45 RPM on the best vinyl rig known to man. And more so, a tape didn't even reach its limit since it can be better still if running at 30"/s and the tape being 1/2" 2 tracks. I disagree that the "tape revival" fizzled out, in fact Danny mention the fact that these new master tape copies are fast disappearing from the market, despite the very high cost of ownership; also note here the steady climb of the cost to purchase good machines such as Studer, Nagra, Stellavox, Sony APR 5000, Otari MTR's, and so on. Must be a hard to swallow truth that your 150k vinyl rig can be the laughing stock of someone with a machine only worth few thousand dollars; quite a lot of decent "master tapes copies" could be bought with the saved money.

[@jungacayan7805]

Great information,,,,,

[@SonicFlare]

Cheers!

[@patrickaguidissou666]

Waiting the next episode on tape machines 👍☢️🎉

[@SonicFlare]

Cheers Patrick!

[@williambyrne6855]

When I hear "master tape", I'm thinking of the tape we carried out of the recording studio. Still searching for honest sources these days.

[@SonicFlare]

Agreed. It’s the only “factual” tape that can be called master tape. 🖖🏻🙏🏼

[@SianaGearz]

IDK, if one were to procure a rare early-generation, highest quality tape, whose first though is "yeah, oh great, i'll have to make a copy of this on tape"? You lot can't be telling me you don't have a Focusrite kicking about there somewhere...

[@westernartifact580]

How is this new information to anybody? Although there is some good info in the comments so, there is that. I think you probably know some stuff. Maybe make an outline and pair things down before you start talking. You’re not going to get anywhere this way.

[@MacXpert74]

A song that came to mind when you were talking about the ‘mythical’ quality of the mastertape not being all that mythical, is the song “Is that all there is.., from Peggy Lee. “Is that all there is to mastertapes….” 😂

[@SonicFlare]

LOL! Love Peggy!

[@bobsbits5357]

hi i wonder if the masters are 2 inch tapes or 1/4 - 1 inch i know 1/2 inch were used to master down to the studio's i know ampex tapes are going bad i do know there's a.lot of data audio files they use as masters alot now if there was alot of used reel to reel out there you would see them turning up i got hold of alot of studio reel to reel over the years and it's who you know not ebay as tapes go around hand to hand in deals i know some are saved in deals beware of master tapes because some are used in high speed for dubbing of cassette's and reel to reel i have had high speed dubbing reel to reel mate gave me some to test they are very bad the sound was going on them loop bin dubbing i keep away from we could easy make the master tapes and con people out there i have been told alot a 2 track 1/2 inch at 15 ips is more likely to be real thing it's the 1/4 inch i never buy money pit

[@mikedenallo6997]

Preach!

[@SonicFlare]

Amen! hahahaha

[@coreyoliver3653]

I appreciate your offering your experience, expertise, and advice. Still - after [ indescribable ] research, I’m beginning to liken this topic to the U.S. organic pandemic : people willingly shoveling out money - because they’re [ told ] to do so--with nary a, legitimate, confirmation. … and people wonder why “ inflation ” has, rampantly, exploded : greedy people, one-upping each other.

[@SonicFlare]

As with everything, it boils down to what you want - mind you, not need - and ensuring you don't get snookered into some master tape nonsense. There's a lot of phony stuff out there - as always, m buyer beware!

[@marjanopresnik73]

I own a Revox 4 track. It's a machine that is fun to look and relax when listen. I do have quite a fair amount of old new stock of emtec and basf tapes. And so, I made my own "master tapes" from the records that are my favorites. Its yust fun to watch the reels to turn, listen and relax. It's yust a moment when you are alone with music. No phones, tv, tablets. Yust a machine, tape or record and music.

[@SonicFlare]

I like it!

[@daviddrake7003]

Hear! Hear!

[@michaellourie4252]

Nice video Danny!! Do you think you will get to the SRV couldn't stand the weather mfsl one step vs analogue productions shootout? Thanks!

[@SonicFlare]

Merci! Let me see if I can pull that off... shouldn't be an issue. Cheers for watching!

[@theboomerscalper]

I need to start adding sound effects to my videos.

[@JohnLovell-FTW]

Ramble on! Gerat song.

[@bradt.3555]

This is why I'm enjoying the Steve Wilson re-masters, ( on vinyl), he supposedly, and I believe does, uses the multi-tracks and creates a new "master". I understand audio ( the hobby), but it seems listening to what the artists wrote is so overshadowed by how good it's reproduced.

[@SonicFlare]

Same here! Steve is a brilliant craftsman…

[@westernartifact580]

Yes

[@TheJuniorMints]

DANNY-How would you, or the owner, know if someone, with access, made a good quality copy of a master tape on vintage tape stock, matched the splice points, and put the new copy on the original reel and back in the original box? Would it be possible for a dishonest person to get away with the true master tape?

[@SonicFlare]

Anything is possible, especially in the analog domain. I could see someone doing that, though it would take considerable effort, knowledge and meticulous planning… I guess the question would be, why…

[@TheJuniorMints]

@@SonicFlare Why? Similar to an art collector wanting a priceless painting; to posses the original Kind of Blue without it being know. Like the film, “How to Steal a Million”. It would be quite the caper.

[@NoOnehereAnymore]

Hilarious, is this your best sales pitch for that company? Did you used to sell used cars?

[@SonicFlare]

Yep, sure did! You know what's even more hilarious though? Your mom was the first to buy five off the lot.

[@NoOnehereAnymore]

you must have lover -IQ level, even your insult's are dumb @@SonicFlare

[@JardinagemOrg]

At some point I thought you're about to say - There is no way in hell… because *I* have the Beatles master tape! Good show!

[@SonicFlare]

LOL!

[@NickP333]

I recorded a couple albums onto 2” tape. Wish I knew where they went. lol “there is no way in hell....” 🤣 Exceptional vid and information, Danny. Thanks very much!

[@SonicFlare]

haha! Fun story: the story goes that Ian Anderson had the master tapes to Aqualung under his bed!

[@NickP333]

@@SonicFlare OMG, I heard about that! Jeez, they must’ve been ok with the recent UHQR of it. Maybe I’ll check under my bed for my tapes... lol

[@Songwritersbehindthecurtain]

Strongly agreed 👍 💯

[@SonicFlare]

Ha! Cheers Luke - DK

[@Songwritersbehindthecurtain]

@@SonicFlare you’re welcome ☺ sonicflare.

[@dougle03]

It's really very simple. There would be the 'master' multitrack (Many of these were not saved since the tape was very expensive. The 'mix master' was a 1/4" tape that was the 1st gen recording from the multi-track 'master', the 2nd gen copy is the one used for distribution and duplication. Not all 'Master' mix down tapes were saved either. It was common for a big artistes early recordings to be considered not valuable enough to save their tapes, and tape was expensive, especially the 2" 24 track material. Only once an artist gained some commercial value would their tapes be preserved. These days, hard drive space is cheap so just about everything is saved now... It's also worth noting that even 'master' multi-track tape may not be the ultimate original material since in many cases 24 tracks was not enough and thus 'bounce' down was common, such as 10 channels of drums would be mixed down to 2 or 4 tracks (known as a 'stem') to free up tracks for more material. In many cases, individual microphone tracks were lost due to bouncing down. Linking two 24track machines to total 48tracks was a later development. Again, tape was expensive, only the top artists got to have their multitrack masters preserved...

[@SonicFlare]

Yep! 👍🏼

[@terrywho22]

Looking over AP's tape list, I'll bet that Art Pepper New York Album on 1/4" is SUBLIME. At some point, digital should sound just as good... though I'm still waiting for that day.

[@SonicFlare]

Agreed… too much futzery with digital. Although I have to say I am quite smitten with the Meitner MA3 DAC of late……… listening to more digital than before.

[@terrywho22]

@@SonicFlare Wow, a 16 lb DAC with a fully discrete DSD DAC circuit. What are you using for a transport?

[@SonicFlare]

@@terrywho22 10 year old McIntosh MCD 301… via S/PDIF

[@terrywho22]

@@SonicFlare Ah, so that's for PCM. Do you use the USB discrete DSD inputs?

[@SonicFlare]

Nah, I use DSD and hires via network stream from Tidal and my NAS drive… I always find a physical medium - CD - to sound better than the equivalent stream. Sadly Sony/Philips screwed us.

[@Grooverski]

Great vid. But please, don’t use those annoying and hurtful effect sounds like the one at the end of this video. Level is disproportionately higher and it’s extremely uncomfortable. I love your channel but those gimmicky effects ….. no need for that.

[@jjcale2288]

how'bout gfy

[@joeharley8396]

Well done Danny. There's another aspect about this that I think gets overlooked. These dub copies that are sold are not, in most cases, mastered! The mastering engineer takes the output from the master tape, runs it through the mastering console, and then applies eq, level matching, etc etc. A copy dubbed off of a master tape will not have this. There is a great story of an early audiophile label client of Doug Sax, who wanted Sax to cut his first release...a classical title. He instructed Sax in no uncertain terms not to use any eq or any other process. Sax told him "you sound like a man who knows what he wants". Sax proceeded to do as he was instructed. The client got the test pressing and was bitterly disappointed...the original LP was vastly better. When he complained to Sax, Doug calmly said "Right. Now sir, would you like me to master this album for you?" The client said "Yes, please make this sound better! Otherwise, I'll be ruined." Sax recut the LP (using the master of course) and added his expertise. The client got the test pressing from the recut and was thrilled and that's what was released.

[@SonicFlare]

YES!!! Love hearing these true "real world" stories of what goes on behind the scenes... Thank you for tuning in and sharing Joe!!! 🤘🏻😎

[@Carrera6rennsport]

wow, good to see you here. Danny needs to interview you for future colab regarding your work at BN and Tone Poet.

[@JeffersonDD]

Great story Joe, as a lover of master tapes, i sometimes enjoy the "Flat Transfers" if noting else for the dynamics, but yes they need a competent mastering engineer to bring out the full sound. Keep up your great work!

[@westernartifact580]

Hey Joe. Love your work.

[@s.t.e.r.e.o.]

Thank you Danny you read my mid I was just looking up master tapes on eBay 2 days ago.

[@SonicFlare]

too funny! be careful...

[@JeffersonDD]

@@SonicFlare EBAY may be GUARANTEED to be fakes, especially for anything popular. They're taking to faking studio boxes now... Badly Like a Post 20002's font on a 1970's tape label.... COME ON!! They're not even trying hard anymore... Beware!

[@thexfile.]

Get a DSD master from the studio.

[@SonicFlare]

Oh, you mean a MoFi One Step…………… 😂

[@azmiothman3456]

Hi Danny Just discovered n sub Greetings fr Malaysia Rgds n Stay safe Azmi

[@SonicFlare]

Cheers and thank you!

[@Carrera6rennsport]

the provenance of the tape used to make dups is EVERYTHING. I got into 15 ips tape a half dozen years ago and bailed in a year after spending a small fortune, i found my vinyl copies were close enough. That said, when I last heard 30 ips 1/2 tape master over an audiophile system i creamed my jeans--best sound ever.

[@SonicFlare]

Yep!!!

[@uncled39]

Ewwwww!

[@MitchHowes]

More Porter ❤️‍🩹

[@SonicFlare]

🥰 haha!

[@lowbudgetvinylchannel4840]

Master tapes and the abstract truth!!

[@SonicFlare]

LOL! that's a good one!!!

[@telespielstube]

😂 great one

[@V1ZNS.]

🤘🏼

[@Badassvidsz]

Great video dude :-)

[@SonicFlare]

Thank you!

[@D4rkS4v4nt]

I'm sorry but you are quite condescending and presumptuous that people don't "know" what they are buying. Sure I've been offered copies of Pink Floyd "The Wall" taken from a production master. No it isn't the "first" studio master created from the multi-track tape but hey it was used to press the vinyl version which sounds pretty good. Yes a copy of a copy can possibly sound not as good but it probably still sounds better than the retail tape, CD or LP. Apologies if I'm wrong but not everyone is totally dumb about what they are getting.

[@SonicFlare]

I agree, not everyone is totally dumb about what they are getting!

[@gpapa31]

It’s really sad that a big majority of masters was lost on the 2008 Universal Studios fire.

[@gpapa31]

@@Great-Documentaries I truly hope you are right cause when I read it my heart literally sunk.

[@SonicFlare]

Absolutely correct Sean… poor reporting and poorly orchestrated news narratives…

[@JeffersonDD]

Perhaps; but to this day, there still isn’t a definitive list of what was lost, and a lot of legalese around the subject. They reported a huge lost to the insurance companies and once the artists came looking for an accounting said “nothing to see here” nothing lost, we have ways to release this”, etc. Sure from a digital transfer using pre-2008 technology… wonder how THAT will sound?!?