The Truth About MD vs. DO. Does it matter?

[@bdoggdogg5906]

The governing board for DOs is the AOA, and they currently oversee DO(osteopathic) residencies. The ACGME is the governing board for MD(allopathic) residencies. By 2020 the AOA will no longer exist, and DO residencies will no longer exist. All DO residencies are merging with the ACGME by 2020, and programs are actively merging right now. Figure I would let you now that. I'm graduating from a DO program in a month, and had to deal with all these specifics. I enjoy your videos.

[@lilrabbitcuz]

bdogg dogg this means DO students will only have the option of taking the USMLE?

[@bdoggdogg5906]

This hasn't been worked out yet. The governing bodies are thinking about having only one board exam for both DOs and MDs to take. As of now, all AOA(DO) residencies are shifting to ACGME(MD), including the AOA residency I will start in a couple months. By 2020, the AOA will no longer exist, and all DO residencies will be MD(acgme) residencies. There will be residencies that will decide to have something called AOA recognized(i think this is what it is called) that will have OMM(osteopathic manipulative medicine) in the residency curriculum. I believe the OMM is done 1-2 times a month for a couple hours.

[@bdoggdogg5906]

www.acgme.org/Portals/0/PDFs/Nasca-Community/FAQs.pdf Explains the AOA to ACGME process

[@briang8663]

No. In order to get the DO degree, you must take and pass the Comlex. as of 2017, the majority of DO students will take both USMLE and Comlex. Comlex is still a requirement to graduate, and USMLE just opens more doors because some ACGME Program directors rather compare only the USMLE scores because they are more familiar with them. The AOA is still a thing, but the accrediting body over all graduate medical education (GME) is the ACGME and former AOA residencies programs must accept applications from both MD and DO to keep accreditation, however they can still preferentially take DO applicants. As it stands, many PD in ACGME programs dismiss even stellar DO applicants because they tend to take students from their own schools and have teaching hospitals that their students do core rotations with and audition for. Many of these AOA programs are also affiliated with DO schools directly and involve teaching faculty members and will continue favoring DO only applicants, but this merger should be a good thing in the long run because it allows the DO applicants to only do ONE resident application instead of two. For MDs, it allows them to apply for coveted AOA ortho only residencies but perhaps it will also in the long run decrease the bias against DO applicants by ACGME PDs.

[@micahshook6422]

I'd like to clear something up. After the merger, the AOA will still exist. It will become a member organization of the ACGME.

[@Seductive_Psycho]

I just switched my kids and I to a DO. I have a lot of faith in our abilities to heal with an overall outlook, nutrition, not just treating symptoms with chemicals. True healing

[@alyseio]

Thank you for using facts and reality. This video was very informative and it answered all of my questions as well as offering extra info that I hadn't known about before (e.g. the extra test that DO students had to go through on top of the USMLE's). I also loved that even though you're an MD, you gave DO a fair description and didn't have superior attitude when talking about DO. I was so glad to come across your video and I just subscribed :)

[@daniellec1721]

Can you make an updated video on this? I think it’s important for people to know of the merger

[@CitizenofDystopia]

I'm a DO student and this video is spot on. I want to add to those that mentioned the merger that recently they said there will be a grace period awarded to some AOA residencies past 2020 to allow them to transition and not just completely close down.

[@octaviawalker823]

I love, love, love your videos that are so refreshing and REAL. You are very motivated and eager to teach new students or even students in general who want to get into medicine. I really appreciate you sharing your stories, it helps.

[@mhammadshokor7380]

The weird thing is: in my country a DO degree isn't accepted by the government however most of these DO's have a physical therapy degree so they sign goverment papers as physiotherapists.

[@ShenryRNBSN]

Lmbo i died at the herbs cinnamon part

[@OmarAbdulMalikDHEdMPASPACPAPro]

Peace be to you Dr.Pinesett! Thanks so much for this information! There are quite a few changes in the DO educational paradigm which are on the horizon. It will be interesting to see how these changes affects the dynamics between those holding MDs and the patients we serve as clinicians. As a Physician Assistant, I have worked closely with both MD and DO s over many years and have not seen any difference between how they practice. I must say, that I am VERY interested in the Osteopathic techniques DO s use.

[@MohamedAhmed-yq9xg]

I really enjoyed watching this video. Thank you Dr. Andre. BTW, I will be attending DO Medical school in the Fall.

[@ebervazquez9098]

Mohamed Ahmed wow CONGRATULATIONS. I have an interview for DO school in 2 weeks . Any advice?

[@MissaLifeStyle]

The best way to describe it is an MD mixed with Chiropractic techniques and a holistic outlook = DO.

[@keanakast5001]

Why am I in a fish tank

[@user-lu6yg3vk9z]

I had a friend who just graduated from a Caribbean school this month and is in a residency school in Brooklyn,NY. The draw he is 350k in student loan debt.

[@briang8663]

Some of those NY programs are 100% IMG.

[@anniesmith6102]

yes, it's called slave labor and these people have NO chance of ever finding jobs besides inner city hospitals. EVER. Nobody in their right mind will employ them in private practice.And they still carry enormous debts from the caribbeans "med" school scams. If you don't expose the scams what is the purpose of your channel? Do you get a kick back? Please go full disclosure.

[@user-lu6yg3vk9z]

annie smith pretty much they get kick back. Caribbean school pay the hospitals to take there students.

[@ryan_lu-y8w]

annie smith What are you talking about? Once they are in residency, they all work as practicing physicians. They choose the inner city pathway bc they have already decided they want to work in the inner city, usually it’s their hometown. Why so passionate about exposing this “scam” you claim is reality?

[@nathan_2780]

+annie smith Your clearly very uneducated on the topic of Caribbean medical schools. I suggest you do a lot more rigorous research.

[@rehabmd]

Hi Dr Pinesett I happen to come across your video while watching a video with the merger of MD DO residency programs. I'm troubled by a lot of what you preach. My example is that I am a foreign medical graduate not by choice because I was excepted to five American medical schools however as an African-American going up in inner-city I had no money to pay for them . I settled on going to the university of Rome school of medicine in Italy. The school cost me $75 a year for tuition the six-year program I finished in 4 1/2 years I was able to do orthopedic surgery residency there and subsequently was accepted at University of Pennsylvania Where i completed my physical medicine orthopedics residency. In fact my year for residents were excepted there were 190 applicants. So much of what you say is incorrect and lacks complete insight. And yes by the way I finish paying off my school loans 20 years ago for both college and medical school if it wasn't for my very low tuition and living expenses while living in Europe I'd still be in debt my younger brother who did go to tuffs and complete his North Peak residency at Vanderbilt is still paying his loans back and practicing in California find it very hard to make ends meet as a subspecialist spine surgeon. I suggest to people out there that if you have the drive and you want to study medicine don't be afraid to follow your heart it's not as bad as Dr. Pennestt makes it out to be. And also by the way Dr. I happened to be a premed advisor now at Princeton University

[@PremedProductivity]

Mika Palmer you're off base. I never said anything about not going to Europe for medical school. I said carribean medical schools. Different thing. Also, you did a residency abroad and then came to America and had to do residency again. Doesn't seem like the most efficient route to me. I never said going to a foreign medical school made t impossible to practice in America. I accurately stated that it is a more difficult route filled with more hoops to jump through. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but facts are facts and truth is truth. I don't spout my opinion based off of my singular experience as you have attempted to do in your comments in my channel. Thanks for your under-informed input.

[@rehabmd]

Dr. Andre Pinesett: The Pre-med Productivity Expert you're absolutely right everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it was my mistake to think that you were criticizing off on medical schools however

[@rehabmd]

However you were incorrectly indicated that I repeated my residency in fact I did three residences and procedures I relieve institution the only thing I really agree with what you're saying is that hard work trumps all I worked hard you worked hard in the end that's what really matters and that is my personal experience. I listen to a few more of your blogs on KZbin perhaps that's not the best setting for you come off as an arrogant self-centered all knowing angry man that has a very good message for people who want to study medicine either you are totally oblivious to the message you were providing toward people watching your videos or you really don't care.I just hope that people do get the message that hard work is of primary importance and education to the practice of medicine

[@ricardorodriguesrr18]

how could u make it in only 4,5 years ?

[@ddfelder2]

You are very insightful and I appreciate all of your work ...THANK YOU!!!

[@aprilbutler3204]

wow you are very informative.Thank goodness I found this !I been have a hard time learning bout all this stuff!

[@wei-ningsun5043]

Great video! I'm a M4 who went to UCSD for undergrad and then went to a DO school :) I was wondering if you have seen any DO medicine residents around? Going to be applying for IM this cycle and am under the impression that the medicine program there is not very DO friendly. Thanks!

[@NO1xANIMExFAN]

how did match and residency go?

[@jaypark7207]

IMHO I don’t think so. I’ve ran across both MDs and DOs throughout med school, residency, fellowship and beyond. It’s a means to an end. If you’re a good physician and do right by your patients and colleagues, nothing else matters.

[@dragonmaster7841]

Jay Park not true. DOs teach more holistic teachings. I believe that DO education leads them to more general areas of practice.

[@AJ-ul1lt]

Dr. Pinesett can you PLEASE PLEASE do a reaction video o n Buck Parkers, MD channel Response to DO vs MD?

[@shristisilwal7228]

Hi Dr. Pinesett , how will this new AOA merge affect DO grads in the future ? :D thanks

[@melvinlard]

Good video, but two things. There will be no more AOA programs after 2020 as below comments state. It is already in the works to have one board test, most likely going to be USMLE with a supplemental OMM for DOs, the timeline for implication is unclear. Second, it is not necessarily easier to get into DO school, while credentials are marginally lower, because they look at applicants holistically, the average acceptance rates are on par with MD programs if not slightly lower because of the small number of schools. I appreciate you stating that you still must be qualified to get into DO program, but you need to elaborate. The difference in average metrics is marginal and if a person does not have the rounded experience many DO programs look for, even with the slight margin or even better metrics, they may not get in. This rounded experience is focused on less in MD schools because metrics are much more important for them.

[@AH-qk6qj]

Hi Dr.Pinesett, I have 2 questions for you. What is your specialty? And how did you choose your specialty? Thank you very much.

[@RuneMamba]

hes in anesthesia

[@AH-qk6qj]

Rune Mamba thanks for repplying.

[@taranoish4309]

Thanks for posting; what if you're Canadian ? I was told its difficult to get into US MD schools as a Canadian even though my GPA is more competitive for MD school.

[@joshuamendes1565]

My Primary physician is a DO.

[@imamalfredmohammed7678]

Very informative, my dear friend brother Omar is on here

[@eluneslightreachesitszenit2048]

I want MD but I'm also interested in learning about osteopathy. It sucks that that stereotype exists.

[@micahshook6422]

If you spend much time in the medical community, you will find that the "stereotype" doesn't really exist anymore. I have met with many ACGME residency directors who have confirmed that they don't care which degree you hold.

[@hawkeyestone2122]

D.O. does both. While MD may need to learn extra,pay extra for OMT lectures

[@YatzsE]

“Osteopathic medicine is two main things. First, it is the lens through which we see our patients and second is OMT, osteopathic manipulative treatment, an extra set of tools in the toolbox to help your patients.” This was from the first lecture that I received from my osteopathic medicine training and I truly believe it makes a difference. If you really want the “M.D.” then fight for it. But even if you think you may be interested in the tenets behind the D.O. philosophy, I encourage you to shadow some of them and see for your self how they care about the whole patient. When you are a D.O. and your patient comes in a complaint of hip pain you will look from the feet to your head to see where the origin of the issue truly is and then you can use your hands to physically improve your patient live. I also encourage you to go get treatment for your self I say that because my “Hip pain” story was actually my own. When I entered medical school the teachers offer an open clinic where I found out my hip pain was actually coming from an anterior right innominate (hip bone not the femur head), with pubic compression. this was very painful in the middle of the hips as compared to a true hip pain that is the femur head. The doctors here did 3 separate treatments, I feel better than I have in years. It was when I received treatment and felt the difference that tennis of osteopathic medicine finally clicked for me. 1) The body is a unit; the person is a unit of body, mind, and spirit. ... 2) The body is capable of self-regulation, self-healing, and health maintenance. ... 3) Structure and function are reciprocally interrelated. ... 4) Rational treatment is based upon an understanding of the above three principles. Try it for your self and you will see the benefits are worth the worth the stigma (especially because the stigma is diapering faster and faster).

[@omifunkemccloud3362]

@@YatzsE, thank you for your heart-felt feedback/experience. 🙏🏿👍🏿❤

[@ghamil231]

What are some of the bachelor degrees that people usually attain prior to attending medical school

[@timurdzhafari76]

Hey Andre! You mentioned "extracurricular activities" can you tell me more about those? What is going to be beneficial for me when I'll be applying at med school? About myself I am a drop out from a nursing program in Moscow Medical College (the reason I dropped out is that I received my green card and moved to the US), I just became a massage therapist. If I am planning to work as a massage therapist while I am studying, do you think this is going to be good enough? One more question! I have an option of transferring my hours and grades to the community college where I am planning to get my Associates in Science degree. How does it work? My GPA in Moscow college was pretty average (Didn't put too much of effort in studying then) and as a result my GPA is somewhere at 3.2 which is clearly not enough. Do you think me transferring my grades and hours can lover my chances of being admitted to med school? P.S. I don't mind studying an extra year if it will increase my chances of being admitted. I like studying. P.S.S Idk if mentioned, but like your videos! Very helpful.

[@Allisondr1111]

If I don't have a good GPA by the time I get my undergrad degree but still want to go to medical school, what should I do?

[@timothytorrez7120]

Do a post bacc program, also if you can finish undergrad strong and get a good MCAT score that will in most cases overcome the low GPA. Getting a masters in public health or biomedical sciences is not a bad idea either.

[@bighands69]

Depending on your debt levels you could go and do another undergrad. If you did that you would find that your second undergrad would be far easier (providing you pick a similar program). Imagine if you went back to high school and started it all over again how easy it would be.

[@briang8663]

What is your GPA and MCAT? In some situations your best bet is an SMP.

[@tommytran5962]

Love these videos!

[@Tiaxxxxxooooo]

Hello I am not interested in DO but for MD if you did terrible in a class and i am retaking it the school is going to down my grade instead of uplifting it? That is not fair you understood what worked from what didn't why would they down you for that?

[@chowsta168]

I know it may seem unfair, but as I'm going through medical school, I've began to understand that there are alot of situations where you cannot afford to do poorly the first time around. For example, not passing step 1 on your first pass is a catastrophe. it seriously affects where you are going to get in for residency, and will reflect poorly on your medical school. Not passing your boards as a resident is also a catastrophe. It reflects very poorly on the residency program. Schools and residency programs cannot afford to take in students that have a track record of doing poorly the first time around. The practice of medicine is unforgiving as well. Not getting things right the first time around for patient care jeopardizes the health and well being of your patients.

[@strongbodystrongmiind]

😂😂😂 not the herbs & cinnamon

[@iuniao.5350]

Can you become a surgeon with a DO? Do people ever go back to med school and get an MD after they get a DO and work for a few years? I ask because I may want to live abroad in the future and maybe DO is not recognized in Europe.

[@gbritto98]

I’ve heard a lot of different answers on this question so idk what to believe so I guess I’ll ask here. Can a DO become a neurosurgeon?

[@coltoneubanks8404]

I'm not sure if you've gotten an answer somewhere else, but to make it short yes they can. Granted it's generally a lot harder for a D.O. to match into neurosurg but it's still possible. One of my classmates (she's a second year, I'm a first year) is the daughter of a D.O. neurosurgeon. On top of that some of the fourth years getting ready to do their residencies have been placed in a neurosurg spot. A D.O. can match into any residency, it's just the programs usually place more emphasis on primary care (such as family practice for example) over the major specialities.

[@dragonmaster7841]

Good look matching. Even difficult for an md.

[@christiancasteel5962]

Very informative. however the all DO residency programs have to become ACGME accredited by 2020 or else they have to close. there will be no DO match in 2020. DOs and MDs will all train in ACGME residency programs by then.

[@dougsmith5920]

so just to be clear, that will limit DO students in terms of residency right?

[@christiancasteel5962]

Nobody really knows. Theoretically the protected DO residency programs will now be open to MDs. However, many of the program directors for these programs are DO affiliated with DO schools. Some have even said they will continue to exclusively take or prefer DO applicants. We will just have to see how pans out.

[@cm2973]

Depends on perspective. For derm etc? Yeah maybe. But otherwise this will likely only help eliminate the myths about D.O. inferiority and we welcome that.

[@Naetanarr]

Hello Dr Andre Pinesett what is your opinion about Naturopathic Medical schools.I have always wanted to be a doctor,and am an undergrad now looking into my options.I would like to practice integrative medicine,using diet,nutrition therapy and alternative therapies combined with allopathic treatment such as drugs when necessary. Currently there are 6 accredited naturopathic colleges in United States two in Canada.Naturopaths are currently licensed primary care doctors in a limited amount of states around 21.I know their is a huge bias against ND's and a stigma that the field is not science based.However this originates from the fact most NDs originally began practicing without credentials or fake ones earned through diploma mills.The accredited schools give all the same foundation medical training courses as MD schools with the edition of botanical and holistic methods colleges can be found here www.naturopathic.org/education Is it worth going to Naturopathic school? or would you recommend going the MD,DO route and then taking additional courses in holistic methodology? Can you please let me know your opinion on this? Or any advice you would give a pre med student interested in Naturopathic medicine? Thank you

[@treepjet]

Truth Infinite do not do naturopathic. Go md/do.

[@strongbodystrongmiind]

i know 2 people who got in the 100% percentile 😐

[@kevindaley2943]

OMT made my life a dream. And also a nightmare

[@jlancepolk]

Care to elaborate?

[@naturalhairbalist945]

can you be an MD that practices omm?

[@cliffrodgers1674]

None of my DO friends practice omm. It sounds nice until you are actually doing it. But yes, just like DOs don't have to use it. When you are done you can practice how you want.

[@briang8663]

Yes, you can do this now.

[@sakshigosain238]

Thoughts on Naturopathic Medical Schools????

[@briang8663]

don't do it.

[@PremedProductivity]

Sakshi Gosain agree with the other comment. You don't need a degree to practice naturopathic medicine.

[@sakshigosain238]

thanks for replying guys before I wasted my life

[@areebaashrafi3690]

I am A pharmacist can i do MD . Also im 30. Is it worth it??

[@briang8663]

Yes, you can. You will be evaluated with the same standards, which is your undergraduate GPA and MCAT. They will not care as much about your pharmacy school gpa, which can only hurt you if you did poorly and not help much if you did well. You can do it if you have the application for it, but can you handle the debt from all of that school?

[@NeuroScientician]

MD - real doctor DO - real doctor + quack DC - Pure quack

[@racentour5172]

85Damix What’s a DC?

[@NeuroScientician]

Chiropractic - they insist on being called doctors, always wear white coats. Some even wear stethoscopes (not like they know how to use them)... Essentially what they do is healing by touch. They are closer to Astrology than to western medicine. Very popular in the US. In Europe you would get locked up. :D

[@popcorn58138]

DO-real doctor + quack? Could you explain further?

[@NeuroScientician]

They are full blown MDs with extra back massage training. Kind of weird. People tend to confuse them with charlatans like DCs.

[@justtoolit6051]

85Damix how about NDs lol ? Quack + Quack lol

[@EasternElectric2012]

Glorified chiropractor. Go to a DO office and go to a chiropractor and tell me there is a difference. Not.

[@Nanajsiuz]

Chiropractors cannot prescribe medicine or perform surgery. DOs can. Another idiotic comment.

[@TheBodyScientist81]

Thanks so much for all of your videos!