The truth about palm blocks

[@birage9885]

Absolutely, Dan. Realized that chasing/catching punches with palm blocks was not a good idea, when I went from karate to kung fu. Also, on the receiving end, the forearm block hurts very much, and is almost as offensive as it is defensive, in application.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Thanks for your input!

[@umbcwushu]

Great breakdown. Our club's traditional Wushu instructor, who teaches traditional northern/Changquan and Tan Tui, stated that the downward "presses"/"blocks" are in fact with the arm, since the arm has power pressing down, not the hand. Thanks for sharing.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

+umbcwushu Thanks!

[@randompiece6]

I like how you analyze what you are doing and think about how to apply and change it for the better. It is a refreshing to see.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Bobba Fett Thanks.

[@thomasargiro5900]

Very nice. We've met before, many years ago, in Taipei, at a White Crane gathering/demonstration, autumn of 2004. I was speaking also with your sifu. Still in Taiwan, on my martial arts journey, which includes both Baguazhang and White Crane!

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Thomas Argiro thanks! I hope we meet again!

[@billyferguson6455]

Very practical ..I instinctively reacted with the above mentioned force when some one went for me out side a Glasgow boozer...Peng energy is powerful and forceful ...the guy was instantly knocked to the ground in a blink of an eye.. no time to think when someone attacks from point blank range. As long as you stick and adhere and move forward ....All I could thing of was hold wee Joey the budgie in my fist in order to stay relaxed, he wasn't hurt by the way....He didn't know what hit him....

[@shujiling213]

Awesome skill

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

凌树基 Thank you!

[@sedward1261]

This is a brilliant demonstration, thank you!

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Thanks!

[@daoistviewer]

Another great exploration of application. Thank you for sharing.

[@Glennhairston]

The idea is to not solely depend on the block for your safety you should also move your target (head, body) as you block in the event your block is not as successful as you would like.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

formlessfighter I have written quite a few blog essays on that exact topic. Here's an early one: www.wayofleastresistance.net/2008/06/evasion-vs-blocking-with-evasion.html

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

formlessfighter Here's a recent video where I refine the idea of just head movement (as opposed to evasion generally). kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4S5aZ6dha-gpdE

[@Glennhairston]

Thanks for you response much appreciated

[@KeytoKungFu]

In my oppinion palm blocking is not a straight hard technique. Its more like to touch the punch keep the contact and move your body out of the straight directon to an 45° angel. While you do this you put his attack arm down and go in. If you do this you´ll eleminate 99% of all these problems. Its more a block supported avasion than a pure block.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

+The Kung Fu Channel I believe all "blocks" (ie. redirections) rely on some element of body movement (evasion) to make them work. Indeed this is the subject of 2 or 3 of my articles. It doesn't alter the situation regarding distancing: if you are using your palm or wrist to block, then you are either picking off the attack at the last minute (which is not good) or you have used evasion so that the attack would have missed anyway.

[@KeytoKungFu]

Dan Djurdjevic Ahh now I know what you mean.

[@AjaychinuShah]

Should rely.

[@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729]

Thanks....I appreciate it

[@AjaychinuShah]

The downward compressed Fuk Sao can be a waterfall or a creek.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Yes indeed - it can be both. Well said. Thanks for your comment.

[@rodgerhempfing2921]

Always educational.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Thanks!

[@mfia8300]

Do people really hit with reverse punch? Is that realistic?

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

It’s called a straight cross - or just a cross. It’s physiologically the most powerful punch and therefore the most common in civilian assaults as well as in combat sports.

[@danielskipp1]

Loving it! Excellent. Sharing.

[@stillnessinmovement]

I would never do a palm block like that. in my tai chi form, the hand makes a circle in front of the body, then ends in the posture you show. but the arc of it will catch anything as you go in. by the time you are talking about a palm block, I would have already contacted and deflected the arm, quite possibly before the person attacked, compressed them, and then be punching them with that other hand. perhaps you might ask the question, how can I make this movement work? curious is not skeptical...

[@hemispace641]

@stillnessinmovement: "...by the time you are talking about a palm block, I would have already contacted and deflected the arm, quite possibly before the person attacked, compressed them, and then be punching them with that other hand.". You would do all of this WHILE he is "talking" about a palm block? You suck... At least you did when you wrote this 7 years ago...

[@TheDemzlyChannel]

Love what and how you do it:)

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Thanks mate!

[@Carlos-ip8xt]

Use head movement. Just blocking isn't enough. If you use head movement too then if you miss the block which is very likely to happen once in a while then head movement is an extra defence against that.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Your point is well made generally Carlos, however this is not a tutorial on tactics, but rather the analysis of a discrete issue: do palm "blocks" really use the *palm* - or do they use some other part of the arm (ie. the forearm). Accordingly I deliberately took out all other movement and focused on one punch from a static positon with no evasion on my part. Why? To isolate the hand/arm function and show the differences. If I were to use these techniques in a more realistic context, I would most definitely use head (and other) body movement.

[@Carlos-ip8xt]

Dan Djurdjevic Thanks for the clarification and quick reply. I have noticed in many Martial Arts seem to ignore head movement or at least don't focus enough on it. I think this is to their detriment as using both blocks and head movement give you twice as many chances to screw up and no matter how good you are you will screw up during a fight. Not accusing you of this on the basis of a single video though. Just brought it up in my first post incase you had not considered it. I like the idea of using a large a surface as possible though which another instance of trying to cover for the fact you may very well get it wrong. I personally like to have my hand closer to my face as well. Gives you more time to react and more chance to redirect the punch than if its further away.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Carlos Yes, I've written about the need for evasion and blocking to be used together. Here's an article from 2008: dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com.au/2008/06/evasion-vs-blocking-with-evasion.html As to the fists nearer the face, I adhere to a different philosophy - a guard similar to to the old bare knuckle guard: dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com.au/2008/08/karate-kamae-or-guard.html "The closed fists are held close to - sometimes even touching - the face. This is fine with gloved sports because your padded gloves provide an effective shield. The same cannot be said about bare-knuckle fighting. If you keep your fists near your face you risk getting your own knuckles rammed into it. And this hurts at least 90% as much as getting hit full in the face without any shielding. It can be 99% if your fist is actually resting on your face before you get hit. Bare-fisted "shielding" doesn't work. I know from experience." See also my article on "Clayton's gap": dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com.au/2010/07/more-about-claytons-gap.html

[@Carlos-ip8xt]

Dan Djurdjevic Thanks I will check out your articles proplery later. Only looked in detail at the second one so far glanced at the other too. Will read them proplery shortly. I don't use my hand pinned to the face but don't have it quite as far as you do either closest to a Muay Thai stance than anything else. I tend to train and Spar with MMA gloves which don't really provide more of a shield than bear knuckles, I disagree that shielding as you call it doesn't work. its certainly not optimal, but its better than nothing. If you sheild you tend to use your forearms rather than your fists, of course this opens up the body. They do reduce the chance of your hands getting injured on striking though. I agree that palms facing someone can be a good stance. I personally prefer my palms halfway between facing each other and the opponent when the fight as actually started but during the interview stage in a fight the palms facing someone used as a distance gauging a deescalation tool called the fence is extremely useful and far less threatening than a standard fighting stance. Do you have any videos of you using what you call clayons gab in full or medium contact sparring? I don't think that guard completely negates the jab (Does seem to make it more difficult though), especially if the attacker properly steps with the jab. Thanks for answering my questions btw. I enjoy the discussion.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Carlos Here is one on the Clayton's gap: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3yUcoapm5yCoqc

[@TOREIKAN]

Intéressant

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Merci.

[@HamzaTuranKubulay]

Kung fu 101, inner block doesn’t have to be palm itself.

[@Yarbols]

This just doesn't seem right to me... I mean I'm willing to hear the flaws of a pak, but why would he step so far inside the gate like that?

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

I’m not sure I understand.The puncher is in range. Most tma students throw punches out of range in the kwoon/guan/dojo/dojang. Some boxers throw punches from out of range that still land - jabs with gloved hands (gloves extend reach slightly) - but these are uncommon to non-existent in civilian defence.

[@Yarbols]

Dan Djurdjevic it seems too close. Even for a centerline punch. Of course you're not gonna use a palm block that close in... it confuses the context in which a palm block would be appropriate.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Yarbols I’m afraid I don’t agree. Centre line or curved - your punch has to have some penetration to have effect. A fist penetration allows about optimum force. Most people in traditional schools practice so far out of range that they miss by half a metre. In that context, palm blocks are the only ones you can use - although in that context you don’t need to do anything. www.wayofleastresistance.net/2014/08/why-traditional-martial-arts-punch-to.html

[@Yarbols]

Dan Djurdjevic well I'm not arguing against infighting, but what I am talking about is that there are two measures to consider, one is your own gate and the other is that of your opponent, and range will often be influenced by style. Against an opponent who deals in jabs and crosses, boxers or mma folk, they are going to operate at a longer measure than say someone coming in with a more squared stance and offering centerline punches. I think there is a distance where a palm block can be effective, but that close is not it. It's somewhat analogous to explaining why heel kicks are ineffective by demonstrating one outside of its range. I guess what I'm saying is there's no one right way.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Yarbols From my perspective, you’re either close enough to hit properly or you’re not. Boxers can jab from a distance because they are using reach, extended by gloves, with a lean. In civilian defence jabs are rare, gloves are nonexistent and fights tend to begin and end in full power range. Can palms be used? Yes. Will they be used occasionally? Yes. Are they overused by tma students who are used to punching out of range? I believe so. 1.bp.blogspot.com/-jKNqS1Ks1FQ/VJ-6EK40vwI/AAAAAAAAIiw/26GFbNcpHAg/s1600/range.JPG

[@stefos6431]

This video is a partial truth.........It IS showing body angling along with the palm, true...However the instructor at some points is too close and is making this a "sticky hands" exercise. In a street fight, any angle will be used so the intelligence of a person dictates that learning multiple martial arts is the smartest thing to do! No "one art fits all"

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Thanks for your perspective, but I disagree with the “too close” aspect. Most people show application way out of range or concentrate on sports encounters where you and your opponent are circling out of range looking to close the gap. My focus is on civilian defence scenarios which overwhelmingly begin and end in what I’ve described over the years as the ‘melee range’ - that distance where you are exchanging punches toe-to-toe. That’s where I believe traditional deflections or “blocks” were designed to work - not in the context of a pre-arranged, one on one contest with a defined start and finish and the goal of “winning by beating your opponent” rather than surviving an attack. My many essays on this topic over the years are apposite.

[@stefos6431]

Hi Mr. Djurdjevic, Thanks for responding..........Your video is one of the very few realistic one on KZbin when it comes to Internal arts. You're correct......Thanks for addressing my post. I appreciate your kindness. Most people who are MMA oriented don't realize that on the streets, you get jumped so groundwork will get you killed! A person needs to be on their feet. Also most people don't know that Pakua/Bagua is the root of Japanese Jiujitsu........It's absolutely evident when you look......Judo too.

[@corbinholmes3752]

@@stefos6431 This is one year late, but by god you know of the Bagua Root too?! I always say as well to anyone who said that these arts are useless, to allow small joint manipulation in contest, and you'll see a quick paradigm shift in MMA happen to a few Chinese martial arts. It can happen without the rule change though, but you need people who are willing and those who won't do the o' "go to the gym and challenge fighter's technical rep" situation towards the martial art exclusively.

[@stefos6431]

@@corbinholmes3752 Corbin, people who practice MMA don't necessarily know the street or an actual combat situation in a military sense...humility is always necessary.

[@corbinholmes3752]

Stefos Oh I know that MMA’s prearrangement is a whole different context than a surprise attack you’d get in an unpredictable environment. I’m just saying; including that these arts in their time also had prearranged bouts, that there would be a bit more modesty to Kung Fu.

[@nevermind9506]

I'm only trying to help your videos because I want to know your wisdom in martial arts, the truth is you're hard to hear. Maybe a bluetooth mike on your cholar, friend.

[@DanDjurdjevicplus]

Never Mind I film with whatever I have. I bought a new iPhone but the sound isn’t much better. I’m not a commercial channel (no ads, no revenue) so I can’t justify expensive equipment. There are captions on this one though.